The Fearless Warrior Podcast

091: What is Mindfulness and Why it Matters with Lucinda Snyder, MPM

• Amanda Schaefer

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This week, I sat down with Lucinda Snyder, a mental performance coach, yoga, and mindfulness instructor. She reveals how mindfulness and meditation transform athletic performance and help teams win championships. She shares why she became a mental performance coach and the importance of teaching athletes to anchor themselves in the moment.

Episode Highlights:

• Mindfulness is a conscious choice
• Athletes need techniques to anchor themselves in the present
• Five minutes of mindfulness practice daily can change brain chemistry
• Mindfulness extends beyond sports into all areas of life


Connect with Lucinda:

IG: @peak_flow_






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Speaker 1:

Welcome to the fearless warrior podcast, a place for athletes, coaches and parents who know the value of a strong mindset. I'm your host, coach AB, a mental performance coach on a mission, former softball coach, wife and mom of three. Each episode we will dive deep into all things mental performance, mindset tools and how to rewire the brain for success. So if your goal is to gain the mental edge and learn the secrets of mental performance, mindset tools and how to rewire the brain for success, so if your goal is to gain the mental edge and learn the secrets of mental performance, you're in the right place. Let's tune in to today's episode.

Speaker 1:

Lucinda is a certified mental performance coach, yoga and mindfulness instructor and works with teams all over the country to win championships by building culture, chemistry and mental resiliency. As a fellow mental performance coach, I've gotten to see Lucinda work with some really cool teams like Rochester Institute of Technology hockey team, who won the Atlantic hockey championship. The University of Buffalo women's soccer, who won the Mac championship, getting to see her teams reach the NCAA division. Buffalo women's soccer, who won the MAAC championship. Getting to see her teams reach the NCAA division three women's basketball tournament for the first time in years. And why do I mention this? Because mental performance creates results. Even cooler is that Lucinda specializes in using mindfulness and meditation as the lens to performing present. I can't wait for her to share what exactly that means and how it can help your athlete. So with that, lucinda, I'm pumped to have you on the podcast. Hey, thanks for having me.

Speaker 2:

I'm excited, I'm excited to be here.

Speaker 1:

Well, cheers, I feel guilty. So we always talk about Starbucks. You're always the one with Starbucks, and now I have a lovely gift you gifted me some Starbucks, so this is. I'm glad we're doing this today.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it's a uh, what is that? The law of synchronicity? Right, things kind of fall in place. Yeah, that from James Moydmore.

Speaker 1:

So cheers to Friday. We're recording this on a Friday, um, you and I have known each other for quite some time now, and I think the cool thing is that, as mental performance coaches, we we speak, speak a language. Can you just dive right in? Cause? I think one of the things that you've really opened my eyes to is that, yes, there are mental skills and there's not any one right mental skill that's going to work for all athletes, and you teach something that I actually struggle with. I don't know if I've told you that you haven't. You haven't. I really struggle with mindfulness, so let's just kick it off. Tell us about Lucinda and your background and why your, your expertise really is in playing present, performing present, and what does that mean?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and first of all, maybe you're not the only one that struggles with being present and mindfulness, like it's hard, and so even the mindfulness teacher, I struggle with that as well. So I think that's part of being human when I say all the time like our brain is designed to take us out of the moment. So you're being human, not not that you can't get there, wow. So I came to this work, you know, really not in a linear path, which I think most of us don't always take a linear path in our careers. I was a single sport athlete growing up and I didn't know how to manage my mind. I didn't know how to manage self-doubt and overthinking and fear and comparison, and that was a time when mental performance coaches weren't a thing right. We didn't talk about it, everybody just told me to work harder, to get over it, to move through it. It'll be fine, stop comparing yourself. And eventually I ended up walking away from a sport where looking back was the only place I could be really present and I had a lot of skills, but I couldn't get over my head and my teammate was a 1200 pound animal. I rode horses, and so when you're scared, they feel that and that's not a good team bonding experience, if you will. So I walked away and those same fears and doubts and criticisms and comparison, like they showed up continuously throughout my life.

Speaker 2:

Um, and then my first son, um, was born with a heart defect and passed away after open heart surgery. And I say this because this is what really pushed me into being present and figuring out how to deal with my mind. I was I remember it as clear as day. I had a choice. I was sitting in the bathroom and I was like, okay, this really tragic thing happened. This really tragic thing happened. I can either choose to let this define me or I can find a way to navigate life through this and use this for good. I didn't know what using that for good would look like until two years later when his cardiologist said I think you should try yoga and I was like really Okay. And then I'm like what does she mean by that? What is she like? I went through this, that whole like downward spiral, so I found myself in a yoga studio and very quickly I realized I wanted to teach yoga, like I did a lot of healing through that mind, body connection um and learn to be present, which then fast forward.

Speaker 2:

Another. That was probably 2010, 2017. I met was introduced to a football coach who wanted to teach yoga to his football players and I was like sure, I'll do it. And, ab, I'm telling you, I was standing on a football field with a hundred guys and I was like what did I just sign up to do? And it was magical. Like the first part was awkward and we laughed and they didn't know how to move and they moaned and groaned and complained, but then at the end they got really still and they got really quiet and it was just like the hair on my arm stood up and I was like this is really cool. And they said to me this is the first time my mind has been still, this is the first time I have stopped moving. Today, this is the first time I have been able to settle and I was like I want more of that and really started to figure out a way to do this and use those principles of mindfulness, meditation, yoga and combine them with mental performance.

Speaker 2:

Found Brian Cain, did a certification, found you learning a lot right and have left my full-time job. It'll be two years in August that I left, so I feel like I have the coolest job ever.

Speaker 1:

Same and we wouldn't be connected had it not been moments. I want to touch on that because grief is such a powerful tool.

Speaker 1:

And I'm just going to trust that this is. You know, whatever's, whoever's listening to this, even in the deepest sorrows of grief, there are gifts waiting for you. And in the moment, and think about the time right. I hate the saying time heals. Time doesn't heal, it, just changes it, and this is the path that has evolved from that grief, and your story is very similar to mine. I don't think fearless fast pitch would exist had I not researched how to cope with the loss of a parent. You know through my dad's cancer journey.

Speaker 1:

And that's part of my story and it's like if you just embrace that, those kind of fracture points, that fracture point in your life created so many blessings that I don't think would have happened had we not walked through that deep grief.

Speaker 2:

No, and, and I, I wouldn't change it. And I think people look at me kind of like, really, you wouldn't have to and I, I would not change that. Right, I wouldn't have my son now, I wouldn't have this life, I wouldn't like I don't know what my life would be like. Was it hard? Yeah, does it. Is it still hard? Yes, but that loss, like we have a choice, just like athletes have a choice of like, are you going to choose to like, think negative? Are you going to choose to reframe your thoughts?

Speaker 2:

Like we always have a choice in how we approach things, and it's only in hindsight that I'm like, oh my gosh, that walking away at age you know, 14, 15 from a riding career like that started me on that, on this journey, I have no doubt now. Now, it took me a while to link the dots together, but it's crazy.

Speaker 1:

But I think that's what makes our job really fun is that it doesn't feel like work, because we're just giving athletes an opportunity to have the tools that we didn't have.

Speaker 2:

Right, Right. And I, and I tell athletes all the time I say the skills that I'm teaching you, they say they literally saved me, Right so, and I still practice them. You know, I still, I still lose it when somebody like cuts me off in the parking lot. You know you still like, you still have those right.

Speaker 2:

I mean are you or you know, somebody triggers me on on Instagram and I do the comparison game and my inner critic gets really loud, like these skills. You and I know this. They're bigger than softball or sport, whatever the sport is. Their life skills and and you and I are using them every single day, not necessarily in the context of a softball field or hockey rink, but in being a parent and a and a mom and a spouse and business owner right, we're using them the same way athletes do.

Speaker 1:

Well. So this is like a perfect segue, because one of my biggest burning questions is now you get to coach me truly. This is my, this is my issue with mindfulness, and I'm sure that a lot of people experience the same negative chatter about it is our society is go, go, go, go go. And so for somebody to set aside time to just be, I think one of the biggest mistakes that in my mind, for me, mindfulness is prayer and I find myself setting aside time for prayer and I think it has to be this all or nothing right Of like 30 minutes of prayer time, an hour long holy hour. I have to go to the church, I have to like sit in perfect, perfect silence and I can't get distracted and I know a little bit now from you. But but can you bust, bust that myth right, like how can someone get started to like rebuild and just practice this like muscle Cause it's the mental skill right, it's like it is right Right.

Speaker 2:

Right, so nobody has time to go sit under a tree like Buddha, right.

Speaker 1:

Like it's just not realistic.

Speaker 2:

And so I always tell athletes I'm like five minutes, you got five minutes. Like that begins to change that brain chemistry right In your mind, of being um in the moment. And I like to say that that mindfulness, right, and it's most stripped down version, is awareness. Right, it's awareness of what you're thinking, what you're feeling, your, your awareness of your environment, what's going on, what you're what you're hearing, and then choosing whether you want to get curious about what that thought is and explore it or you're just going to allow whatever comes up to come up. So a lot of times people think, well, you must be so calm and Zen. No, like mindfulness is uncomfortable, it is, it's hard, it's, it makes, it's like you want to. You know, when you get like a mosquito bite and you start scratching it and you want to stop scratching it but it keeps itching. Like mindfulness can be like that, when you're sitting in stillness, right, Um, and that's a great analogy, Cause that's how it feels for me.

Speaker 1:

It's like this and itchy, yeah, it's like a. It's like a I.

Speaker 2:

The more that I try to be, still the more that I want to move, the more that I run away from this feeling of like trying to be present. It's very hard for me to be present. Yeah, and and, and it's like okay, I'm here, I'm coach AB, I'm here, I feel my feet on the ground, I feel my seat sitting on the floor, I'm fine, I'm going to just breathe through this and really five minutes a day is going to begin to change that. And I think some days you come in and you're like wow, like I'm in a pretty good place, I'm really present, like the thoughts aren't bouncing around.

Speaker 2:

And then other days it's like ping pong, right, or like whack-a-mole, like you hit kind of clear one thought and then another one comes up and you're just, you're playing this game, um, but what it does is, once you build that, that muscle, that awareness and how that translates to sport is like is is an athlete can say, oh, I'm, I'm not present.

Speaker 2:

Like I have that awareness that this, this thinking part of my brain, is coming online. Now I need to implement those mental tools to come back to ground myself, the yoga in particular that when my thinking brain is about to come online, my armpits get sweaty, my chest gets heavy and I get kind of like a little butterfly in my stomach. So that's my signal that my inner critic, or those negative thoughts or whatever's happening in my brain, is about to shift and I need to pay attention. And through that paying attention that's either feeling my feet on the ground, you know, scanning through my senses I see, I feel, I taste you know, I hear or very simply, just taking a couple of belly breaths in and out, to just bring me back to the moment.

Speaker 1:

So that's and that's something is like to come back to the body. Yeah, yeah, and we teach grounding in the fearless warrior program of you ground into your feet. How do you come back? If I could describe this to you again, like if we could have these tools and go back. A lot of my clients have actually said this too, so I would love your insight on this. I call it pitchers amnesia, which I'm sure it happens for hitters and other sports too. Pitchers amnesia, which I'm sure it happens for hitters and other sports too. But, lucinda, there were innings that I would just wake up with bases loaded and count on a batter.

Speaker 1:

And I remember at the time one of my friends we came into a huddle she's playing shortstop and I literally looked at her of like how did we get here? And she looks at me and she goes AB, you just walked two batters. You got us here like, snap out of it, what are you doing? And it was one of those moments of like I think we just get so in this like rush. If I could go back and tell myself I was trying to focus but for whatever reason, it was this pitcher's amnesia, where I was just the motions, I wasn't performing well. And then, when you're not performing well, your brain's off in la la land with negative thoughts. And then you look up and you're like, how did I get here? I got myself here. You know, like coach, you know college AB. This is what mindfulness helps with. This is what you know when parents are yelling at their athletes from the stands and saying focus, we'll have to taught them how.

Speaker 2:

Correct. Right, and often those parents are not focused. Right, I mean, we live in a world where being present is is not like something to be proud of. Right, like the more things you can have, the more tabs in your brain that you can have open, the more successful you are. Um, and I found, too like now I will just drive in the car in silence. Right, that makes you be present.

Speaker 1:

you know, um, like there's other ways to sneak it in without, like sitting on a meditation cushion and being still yeah, see, even right now, my brain you know my brain is telling me is like yeah, that sounds great, lucinda, but I, I have things to do. I have podcasts to listen to. It's like we welcome the noise. It's very easy to pick up your phone and scroll. It's very easy to pick up your phone and scroll.

Speaker 2:

It's very easy to be present, right and knowing that the brain likes comfort and routine. So my guess is, like your brain likes going, going, going and when it hears oh, we might be still, it's like, oh no, danger, danger, that's change.

Speaker 1:

Why is it so dangerous? Why does it feel so dangerous to the mind?

Speaker 2:

Right right, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Don't know about that. Like on some subconscious level, that feels really uncomfortable to you to sit in stillness and so your brain?

Speaker 1:

I think it's attached to my belief of needing to be productive. Yeah, that stillness. Like even just sitting watching TV with my kids. I feel like I have to be multitasking, and like sorting their toys or like folding a basket of laundry.

Speaker 2:

I think that's.

Speaker 1:

I'm attaching that that belief of rest and stillness is not productive Right.

Speaker 2:

And if you think about athletes, where they need, they need recovery, right, they need downtime and we wonder why they will play through an injury and continue to get hurt, because we've all been taught that rest and stillness is is not okay. Right, right, we're not. We're not enough or we're not. We're not reaching our full potential if we don't, if we take the time to rest and recover.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah. This is like breaking down so many cool beliefs and so many, um, societal norms. Yeah, so I want to hear more. You work with some really cool teams you were, you know, I work with a lot of softball. Um, you work with hockey, soccer. You have a flag football team in Texas, texas, just some like really cool teams. So I guess, open up our minds of, like, how are you working with teams? What, what's your day to day? Like you go work with a team? Are you guys doing yoga, like you know? Alongside mental skills, how are you? How are you implementing?

Speaker 2:

So originally right, it was yoga.

Speaker 2:

Um, really moved away from the actual teaching yoga with the athletes, and sometimes they'll ask for it because they like it, them to put their body in positions that maybe they haven't ever done before. Um, like university of Buffalo football I w I do yoga specifically with them in the summer, during their summer camps, um, and they're hilarious because they're like, oh, this is so hard, but they're learning to deal with that inner voice in those moments, um, but I, I have six pillars that I take teams through, and the first one, um, is what does it mean to be a mindful athlete? What does it mean to be present? What does it mean to be in the moment? And, and I think one way to think about this is, is I, we talk about anchors, um, and they, that's something they can really grasp onto. And if you think about, like, if we went out on a boat and we were, we had this bougie boat right, and we were going to sleep on this boat, right, um, and we forgot to put the anchor down, what would happen?

Speaker 1:

We would. I don't know where we would end up. We'd be, we'd end up right.

Speaker 2:

We would end up on another island or another right, it's far away lands. Your mind is the same way it needs an anchor to keep you present. So if you don't have something to keep you in the moment, your mind is going to drift, and so, for an athlete that can be for hockey, a lot of guys use the blue lines on the ice. I have some guys that will use their thing is there's a specific zero in the scoreboard right and the time.

Speaker 2:

Soccer players will use the flags on the side of the field or the 18 yard box right, so using their environment to keep them anchored in the moment. So we're giving them those skills. We do also practice being still. We practice sitting. Now it's like for five minutes. I can sit in silence for a long time.

Speaker 1:

You are. You are the master, You're the master.

Speaker 2:

Well, it's chaotic in my mind, but I'm, I'm fine, not talking. So they, you know, we'll sit, we'll practice that, and then we'll be like well, what was that like? What came up? What were you thinking about? What were those thoughts? And then you can begin to track right, because most of our thoughts are repetitive. We know this fruit science, we know that they're negative. So you can begin to see what those beliefs are and what those thoughts are that get in their way, and then we can begin to break them down. Um, so I I'm with teams, like I'm in the, in their team rooms with them. Coaches usually aren't there. Um, sometimes I will go in and I'll have an agenda Like this is what we're going to talk about, and then that goes out the window because we have to talk about what happened during a game or we've had some really cool conversations about some of the teams where you you know what you expect versus what you walk out of.

Speaker 1:

And those are the sessions where your athletes text you like. Some of the texts that you have gotten and share is like I needed to hear that, I needed that today. Like we get to be, we get to be the voice that they don't necessarily always hear, Cause we're not. We're not writing the lineups, we're not giving them scholarships, we're not their parents, we're literally just there as their biggest support asset.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, and I think that's why it works Right. And, and you know this right, I work with a lot of college teams and a lot of college athletic departments have their own sports psychology people on staff, which is great, right, but they're also checking boxes, um, and so they do a lot of the multiple multiple boxes one mental performance coach is assigned to multiple teams.

Speaker 2:

Right and they're, they're really in charge of, like mental health, which these, what we do in mental health are very much integrated, but we are not I am not a mental health specialist Like that is not my training, right.

Speaker 1:

Well, so let's touch on that as, as a side, just so you are hearing, if you're listening, if you're listening to this, what we're saying is mental performances as it relates to sport. And so if an athlete is struggling with their lifestyle, so like eating, sleeping, daily life, if their mental health is interfering with their daily activities outside of their sport, which also translates to their sport, that's uh, like an LM or what's the and now I can't, I'm on, I'm on the spot LMPC, a licensed mental health.

Speaker 1:

licensed mental health counselor health, licensed mental health counselor, lm counselor, LMC yeah, right, and there's a lot of designations and we refer yes, yeah, we absolutely refer to those. But we get to be in in sport mode yes, yeah, so I know just. I always want to explain that, cause I don't ever want people to think that we're not, that we don't care about mental health. It's like we're so closely intertwined but then we refer out.

Speaker 2:

Yes, cause I think it's a very gray area and I think I think people you know coaches in our position they're there, those athletes are comfortable talking to us and so we may get that information before a coach or someone else on staff. So we have to be comfortable and be able to recognize that, recognize the signs and then refer out because I don't, I don't want anything to ever happen because I didn't say something.

Speaker 1:

Right. But I also think that these athletes feel so much pressure with the scholarships and NIL if they're struggling, they don't want to go to their head coaches because they know it's a mistake and it's like it's okay to not be okay when you're in it.

Speaker 1:

You don't want to risk you know in their mind they don't want to risk. Why would I risk playing time, why would I risk my scholarship to tell my coach that I'm struggling? And it's like, if you're an athlete and you're listening to this, like your coach wants to know those things, like, please, it's okay to not be. Okay If you're, if this is something that's impacting you, like then all those things don't matter. It's and and maybe I'm, maybe I'm making it worse because there are some coaches out there that don't understand, right, but I think that's where, where, where coaches that let people like us into their programs we can help.

Speaker 2:

We can help.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, right, but that's the thing is like you and I have the same conversations over and over again of like, yeah, I don't think enough coaches get it. No Like for every team that we're working with, there's like 27 other teams that need us that either don't have the budget or they just don't care. Honestly, right, right.

Speaker 2:

And it's changing, it is changing, it is changing, it is changing, yeah, yeah, um how do we get on that?

Speaker 1:

I don't know. I just really wanted to touch on mental health and we went off and this is good, like we want to talk about these topics, but yeah, yeah, we're talking about you being that that go-to that resource, where they they do open up to you, they do.

Speaker 2:

And oh, because, why it works? Right, it's because because we're not connected to the program, like the sports psychology that's still going to get connected to the program, like the sports psychology that's still going to get back to the coach, right, there's a level of like, privacy, um, between what, what um, athletes tell me and what I report back to coaches, right, like.

Speaker 1:

so I think that's why, that's why it works, because it's not not playing time, not scholarship dollars, not, yeah, all of that, all of that stuff, even even our one-on-one clients, yeah too right to be that liaison and I I've had some really cool conversations where an athlete has been afraid to tell you know, dad to cool it, or mom to, you know, this isn't helpful, or oh, I really need my mom to know this. And we get to be that bridge of like you know, your mom actually doesn't really care whether you fail or succeed, she loves you no matter what. You just feel like that and so I get to. I get to bring in those conversations, just like we would bring in that conversation with a coach and a player.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it is cool Cause I I tell athletes I mean, yes, I love to win, I'm super competitive, but I and I do really love it, love it when my teams win, but the end of the day, I don't care, right, I really want to give them the tools to show up as the best version of themselves, whatever that is right, wherever they fit in the team, whatever, however many minutes they have or don't have. Um, I want to give them those tools to be the best version of themselves so that they understand, like, the human potential that they have and the impact that they can make on the world. Yeah, regardless of sport. So that's the cool thing.

Speaker 1:

That's why it doesn't feel like work Right, exactly, exactly, exactly. You know who's coming to mind. Is it Luke? Who's your football player that did a video, luke?

Speaker 2:

Luke Wilson yeah, can you tell us?

Speaker 1:

about Luke, cause I think Luke is a perfect example of this, of like how it's not just playing present on the football field, but like, can you talk about what that did for him?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so Luke um was part of the very first team. Well, he played for the very first team that I ever worked with, that football team I did yoga with. So I had the pleasure of working with him for five years, cause he had a COVID year. Um, you know, and Luke was very kind of very skeptical of all of this as a freshman, and to to watch him really embrace the yoga and the being present and and being in the moment um was, was just such a like amazing thing to witness and to to be at games and have his mom come up to me and say I don't think he would have gotten through school and playing without you, you know.

Speaker 2:

And my favorite story about him is one one season we met every Sunday morning on Zoom with like the basically the starters would meet on Zoom and we would debrief the game before and, and he was talking about how he just couldn't let those mistakes go. And I said, well, what do you say when your mom meets you after a game and says great game. And he's like, well, I say thanks, but and then like, list all of these things that he did wrong, and I'm like, do you think your mom cares about that? He's like, well, no, she was just happy that I played and played. Well, I said you're the only one that's holding onto those mistakes.

Speaker 2:

And he really got to a place where what I call play carefree right, where he's just playing from that place of like love and joy and confidence this year that it didn't matter how he thought he played, he could say thanks and stop it at that. And he's I think he's. He's applied for some coaching jobs, like he wants to be a football coach. I mean, he's now got his master's, he's graduating this spring with his master's and I think he wants to be a coach, which is really cool, because it's coaches like that that will change the game for future athletes.

Speaker 1:

Like undoubted, like no doubt in my mind that he's going to impact so many more athletes from the ripple effect from you and all of this. It's so good.

Speaker 2:

I love the story. Yeah, he's a. He's a good one.

Speaker 1:

Well, I'll end with this. This is my favorite question that I ask everybody.

Speaker 2:

Okay, it's the time traveler question.

Speaker 1:

So you're a time traveler, you can go back in time. Well, I'll end with this. This is my favorite question that I ask everybody. It's the time traveler question. So you're a time traveler. You can go back in time at any time and give yourself one message what would you tell yourself?

Speaker 2:

Oh boy, um, I think I would just, I think I would tell myself to just trust, to trust myself, right that that that there is a plan and there is a path and it's it's all going to work out, so yeah yeah, that's a deep one, and then you're going to write that down and tell your future self it goes both ways right, If we can tell our future selves.

Speaker 1:

So I will carry that one with me today to trust more. Yeah, this has been so awesome. You know I talk every single week, but getting to share you with, with my people and the fearless fam has been really special. So what is the best place to follow you? Is it Instagram? Instagram, yeah, yeah, help me remember your, it's peak underscore flow underscore.

Speaker 1:

Okay, and we'll link it below follow Lucinda and all of her amazing teams and, uh, if you have any questions about today's episode, dm Lucinda, because, uh, I'm on my own mindfulness journey, it's a journey, it's a journey. It's a journey. I'm going to take up your challenge of being more mindful, so hopefully, by the time this episode airs, I'll update everyone on Instagram of you know my five minutes a day, so yeah.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I think you'll be surprised how it, how it it will prepare you for teenagehood. Let me just tell you, cause you're still. You're still in the thick of like little kids, but it has served me well with the teenager.

Speaker 1:

So, yeah, the, the nervous system, reset the regulation. It's the. Yeah, we're going to need some of them. Well, I have lots of teenagers I have. I have hundreds of teenagers that I are in my world. They feel like daughters. They are very lucky Until next time. Thanks for thanks for a great chat today and cheers.

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Amanda Schaefer

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