Prepare to uncover the world of Ethernet technology, where the concept of simple connectivity becomes a complex symphony of interoperability. With the expertise of Peter Jones, the Ethernet Alliance chair and a Cisco distinguished engineer, alongside Sam from Intel, we delve into the essential mission of ensuring device compatibility through the Ethernet Alliance. This episode illuminates the painstaking consensus-building that underpins the IEEE 802.3 Ethernet working group's success. Discover the meticulous behind-the-scenes endeavors that breathe life into Ethernet's renowned plug-and-play feature and learn how these efforts undergird the seamless operation of our networked world.
As we venture further into the technological landscape, power becomes a central theme. We trace the impressive ascent of Power over Ethernet (PoE) from its origins to the powerhouse 90-watt standard that's transforming device charging. Listen in on how PoE simplifies the entangled web of cables by combining power and data into a single lifeline for myriad devices. The conversation shifts gears to spotlight cutting-edge Ethernet advancements, like the leap to 200 gigabits and the burgeoning 800 gig standards, offering a glimpse into how Ethernet is setting the stage for an industrial automation revolution.
Wrapping up this technologically charged journey, we confront the hot-button issues of cooling and power consumption that are reshaping the Ethernet landscape. From data centers grappling with the heat of high-speed connections to the Ethernet Alliance's proactive stance in these cooling conundrums, we reveal how Ethernet is influencing diverse sectors including automotive and aerospace. Join us for a thought-provoking discussion on how joining forces with the Ethernet Alliance can open doors for industry players to shape the future of connectivity, promote early interoperability, and forge invaluable connections within the tech community.
More at https://linktr.ee/EvanKirstel
Prepare to uncover the world of Ethernet technology, where the concept of simple connectivity becomes a complex symphony of interoperability. With the expertise of Peter Jones, the Ethernet Alliance chair and a Cisco distinguished engineer, alongside Sam from Intel, we delve into the essential mission of ensuring device compatibility through the Ethernet Alliance. This episode illuminates the painstaking consensus-building that underpins the IEEE 802.3 Ethernet working group's success. Discover the meticulous behind-the-scenes endeavors that breathe life into Ethernet's renowned plug-and-play feature and learn how these efforts undergird the seamless operation of our networked world.
As we venture further into the technological landscape, power becomes a central theme. We trace the impressive ascent of Power over Ethernet (PoE) from its origins to the powerhouse 90-watt standard that's transforming device charging. Listen in on how PoE simplifies the entangled web of cables by combining power and data into a single lifeline for myriad devices. The conversation shifts gears to spotlight cutting-edge Ethernet advancements, like the leap to 200 gigabits and the burgeoning 800 gig standards, offering a glimpse into how Ethernet is setting the stage for an industrial automation revolution.
Wrapping up this technologically charged journey, we confront the hot-button issues of cooling and power consumption that are reshaping the Ethernet landscape. From data centers grappling with the heat of high-speed connections to the Ethernet Alliance's proactive stance in these cooling conundrums, we reveal how Ethernet is influencing diverse sectors including automotive and aerospace. Join us for a thought-provoking discussion on how joining forces with the Ethernet Alliance can open doors for industry players to shape the future of connectivity, promote early interoperability, and forge invaluable connections within the tech community.
More at https://linktr.ee/EvanKirstel
Hey everybody, super excited for this chat today. Everyone's heard of the Ethernet, but did you know about the Ethernet Alliance and its mission and goals and membership? We're going to dive in with very esteemed members and leading engineers in their organizations, including Intel and Cisco. Gentlemen, how are you?
Speaker 2:I'm feeling that you've flattened the audience Great.
Speaker 1:Great, we'll get to chat with you both. We'll start with you, peter. You're the chair of the Ethernet Alliance. Maybe introduce yourself. What is this Ethernet Alliance thing? Tell us about the mission.
Speaker 2:My name is Peter Jones. My day job is with Cisco. I'm a distinguished engineer in the Cisco networking division which, as you know, is a pretty big part of Cisco's business and everyone's life. The Ethernet Alliance really sits between the 802.3 Ethernet working group, which I'm also involved in, which define standards, but our job really is to try and explain the value of the Ethernet to the community and also to help new Ethernet standards come through and be ready. One of the things we do, for instance, is plug this to where we try and get make sure all the vendors behind closed doors get their act together, because we want to offer the Ethernet value of having everything work. We do some behind the scenes work to basically make sure stuff works. When it shows up, we go up and show it working. It shows like OFC and ECOC and then we try and tell people about it.
Speaker 1:Fantastic. Everyone knows in the industry Ethernet's an open standard. Why the Alliance? What's the genesis or the rationale behind the Alliance? Started so long ago?
Speaker 2:I think there's a couple of things Inside the Sandwich Group. There's certain things you can and can't do. The Sandwich Group exists for individual people to go and make contributions. Ethernet Alliance was really formed a long time back, way before my time, to try and help steer consensus In EditSort3, to get anything agreed is a 75 percent vote of a whole room of people, including your suppliers, your competitors and your customers. So we do a bit of consensus building outside to try and shape the industry's approach into something that makes sense and then we try and explain it to people. So it's like the Wi-Fi Alliance, but a bit smaller and with a bit less testing.
Speaker 1:Very good. I had the Wi-Fi Alliance on a prior show, so I get a fantastic mission. Of course, wi-fi was wireless Ethernet Really originally that was the big idea.
Speaker 2:I can tell you that, talking to Bob Metcalf of shameless plug, I had this interview on the ESI because we're doing a set called Stories of Ethernet where we get interviews from people. I missed the Metcalf I was first. I believe he still considers Wi-Fi a wireless Ethernet.
Speaker 1:Good for him. Who am I to argue? We also have Sam here. Sam, would be great to hear about your role in the Ethernet Alliance and your day job as well.
Speaker 3:Absolutely so. I work for Intel. They're the ones who write the paycheck. I'm an engineering manager there within the network and Edge Group. My team is the link applications engineering team and we focus on physical layer enablement. So we're focused on everything from basically from design to customer of just bringing link up. That's what our team does. Whether it's working great or broken, we're there in the middle of it, which translates nicely to my role within the Ethernet Alliance as the high-speed networking co-chair.
Speaker 3:One of our main outputs of that forum is running interoperability plug-fests. We do a lot of other things within the high-speed networking space, but that's the big come-together that we drive through that subcommittee and we're targeting running two events per year where we get as many people as we can that come together and bring all of their high-speed networking equipment to the same place and plug it all in in a huge matrix and see how it works and then share the results with the world. And we just had a really successful event last month where we did some some first-time testing and if we have a chance to talk more about that, I can share more how those events are going. And, yeah, it's just been a really great opportunity for for me to help the hsn mission and and ethernet in general, and we're also we're very cautious about being through which hat we wear.
Speaker 2:So today we're here as our ethernet alliance hats, not as our people who pay the check that.
Speaker 1:Yes, noted, that's a important differentiator. Well, let's start. Maybe jump ball, either of you can take it. Talk about the significance of Ethernet interoperability. You know we take it as a, as a grant for granted. Really plug it in and it just works plug-and-play. We love to throw that around, but you know plug-and-play didn't just happen, particularly in areas like ethernet. Tell us about the ecosystem, the current state of play and why there's a lot of work ahead of us to ensure that that sort of plug-and-play Compatibility. Sam or Peter, either we want to take that one.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think I'll jump in on this one. Like I said, running the interop plug fest events is one of my primary roles within the ethernet alliance. The, the it just works comes with a whole lot of real work behind it and there's there's an entire industry of people who who myself include who have a job, because it doesn't always just work, and that's that's the reality, especially on the leading edge. Right you have new standards and we have a race between standards development and and product developers who are trying to get devices in the market to satisfy, you know, the market needs and we. It takes. It takes a lot of work and Just just, yeah, the standards development does a great job of defining things in a way that open ecosystem Success is a possibility.
Speaker 3:But there are areas where you know things are implementation specific, that are left open-ended or there can be ambiguities, or just you know life, life is complicated and our world is even more so.
Speaker 3:So the interop testing plug plug fest events that we do is really, I believe, a key way that we can help drive that, that it just works Ability. You know we can identify areas where things are more challenging, where we do have more problems, early and ideally before they're really seen in the broader market and can really try and influence some of the design decisions as well as Specification decisions, drive things in a way to improve that interoperability. But one of the things that I see is that With each generation of the standards things get a lot more complicated. But we also learn from what we, what we've, the roads we've traveled right. So we we try and build. You know, part of HS 10 is giving feedback into that. We spec space, what else we can do to, you know, fix some of the problems we saw in certain generations and we do see evolutions were certain. Sorry that was.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, no, I was just saying like as the technology.
Speaker 1:As the technologies get more complicated.
Speaker 3:There are things we try and simplify to make our lives easier as well, but at the end of the day it takes a lot of testing, a lot of really smart people Figuring out how all this stuff plays nicely together. So at the end of the day you can Buy a product and plug in a cable and, hey, link comes up. Just one of the sort of that for a second, one of the things that's changed over the last decade, or?
Speaker 2:so is the problems of the hyperscalers and, of course, because they're driving technology so fast and they have more control of the system, you, it can be a little difficult to make sure the technology we built for them is suitable for everyone else. So that's part of where we come in to try and make sure that when you go buy this stuff it just works.
Speaker 1:JustWorks is nice and you demonstrated some pretty cool just working at the recent OFC event. Really interesting multi-vendor demo, amazing speeds now being achieved over the internet.
Speaker 2:But I'll be thinking that OFC was a while ago. It is in a couple of months, so I think we're talking about what's coming up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what is coming up? What do you see as the next big thing for the event and I mean you guys go every year what's the big sort of next wave for speeds and access? Do you want to climb on this?
Speaker 3:Yeah, let me I'll take a little bit. So at the OFC demo we really try and showcase some of the broadness of what we cover in the high-speed networking space, especially so you'll see in the OFC demo a number of interconnected networking schemes that showcase link speeds from 25 gig up to 800. And currently that's kind of where we're tapping out at the moment. In is at the 800 gig space and that's eight lanes each running at 100 gig per lane. There is interest in the next phase of technology is 1.6 terabyte and beyond.
Speaker 3:But the practical working interoperability demos that we have now are at that 800 gig level and so we're seeing the different types of modules immediate and cable that are coming to sort of satisfy some of the additional challenges that we have in that 800 gig space. One of the things that has a ton of interest right now is our LPO optics, or linear pluggable optics, and they are taking some of the DSP that's inside the optic and moving it into the host to try and reduce the power that's being consumed by the module, because we have a lot of problems with our power budget for some of the optical modules and things. So there's a lot of sort of the leading edge technology that we like to showcase there. But we do it in a way that shows the interconnectedness, how in many cases you have a switch from one vendor and a module from another vendor and a fiber from someone else and it's connected to a server that's got somebody else's networking card in it and, at the end of the day, the customer doesn't care.
Speaker 3:They need it to work, and so that's really where Ethernet Alliance wants to come in and be a part of really driving that open ecosystem, open interoperability. If you're here and you're adhering to the standards like we, want to be a part of making sure that it functions, and that's what we try and showcase at OFC.
Speaker 2:So I'm going to add onto that a little bit, because I always have to Our sister organization to some extent, ias. They actually run the booth next door to us normally and that's where you see the true bleeding edge, the 1.6s etc. But that's normally open board demos. So that tells you what technology might be coming in a couple of years and we're going to show you what you can actually buy and what works. So that's the difference on the goals.
Speaker 1:Fantastic. Well, it'd be great to see. I've never been to the event, oh, if see that is, but maybe, maybe next year I'll check it out. It looks like a fantastic technology. Showcase it is quite a bunch, and San Diego, I think are worse places to go for for an event. Let's change gears a bit. Talk about power over ethernet, something that's also been a long time coming. How has that evolved over the years, and what's next for power over ethernet? Maybe some definitions are in order.
Speaker 2:Peter or Sam the interesting thing about power over ethernet is this is the zero bits per second ethernet and it goes back an awful long time, I believe to when Cisco was looking at how to power IP phones. So the whole concept is there's a bunch of devices which are out there which if we could give them power and data or a single connection, we'd just be more easy to adopt. The other part that's in there is because it's of the low, relatively low, voltages, and 60 volts below it becomes it's safe. So power over ethernet is a way to get it an efficient, safe power and source at the same place for someone who needs a copper link. You know we originally started, I think, at 15 watts, then we went to 30, then we went to 60 and now we're up at 90. So 90 was added to 3BT, which is four per PUE, and that's about as far as PUE can go to stay inside the very safety standards. I mean there are other, there are other technologies in the world which go much higher in power, but then you might need to be a certified electrician to play with them. So PUE is really focused on the right. Now It'd be what's the maximum we can safely get through the four pair cabling while preserving the ability to do pull, pluck and play.
Speaker 2:And if you think about it, not 90 watts from the, from the PC power sourcing equipment comes down, I think, to worst cases like that 75 watts at the PD. You can do a lot of things up 75 watts. So, for instance, today, you know this would charge my laptop and would charge my phone in parallel. So it's become the case and there's also a bunch of other stuff out there. It's not just phones. You see cameras. I've even seen a PUE powered golf ball, the Spencer and PUE powered bath region hotel. So PUE is becoming a very easy way for some for a device that needs to be connected to get a much simpler and more efficient distribution, because we're doing we're doing a DC distribution, so you also, it's a lot more efficient, so you save. You save power from wall warts.
Speaker 1:Fantastic. I can't wait to see more products incorporating it Sounds great, for just checking.
Speaker 2:We've been shipping PUE products for a decade or more, so we should talk about that If you haven't seen them yet. I have a whole set of things I'm going to send you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think it's more from the home. I'm networking standpoint, but yeah, I keep to the keep to the old tech when it comes to my smart home. But speaking of innovation, I mean what's next for Ethernet, maybe at a big picture level? What are you excited about? What innovations might be on board beyond you know the next few months or year? What? What's exciting in that everyone sort of buzzing about?
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah. So I think the so I touched on one, which was our linear pluggable optics. That one has got a lot of attention because of some of the advantages that it can bring to the power budget and the the overall power. Shifting that back into the host system, you have less heat to dissipate from modules. There's a lot, of, a lot of good reasons that those are really interesting to end users right now.
Speaker 3:But I would say the thing that's got the industry's attention right now is our 200, well called 200 gig per lane Ethernet and the 800 gig standards that we have right now.
Speaker 3:Like I said, they're running at 8 by 100 gigs.
Speaker 3:I have eight lanes running at 100 gig each, and so the IEEE right now is working on defining the next standard beyond that which is running at, is able to transmit data at 200 gigabits per lane, and that is going to be our, our standardized path to 1.6 terabyte, which is a very desirable speed for a lot of the hyperscalers.
Speaker 3:Like Peter said, they drive a lot of our growth, and so at the most recent Ethernet Alliance plug fest in December, we were able to do some some testing on this 200 running at 212 gigabit per second protocol, and it was a really exciting opportunity for us the where HSN was able to not partner with per se, but we were able to contribute to IEEE's development of the standards and execute some of the testing and gather some data and results that they were desperately in need of and we're able to use that to inform and really help drive the direction of the standards. And we're kind of waiting for them to internalize and then make some changes based on our testing results and then we'll do the next plug fest to test the next round. So we're really closely watching what's happening there in the IEEE space To help drive that 200 gig per lane development. So that's really probably the next big thing in our space, I would say.
Speaker 1:Awesome, peter, any color commentary, anything else that you've? Seen, or maybe you can't tell us because you have to.
Speaker 2:I'm actually more interested in the low speed side of the house. I'm actually working with the technologies for building an industrial automation. We're looking at 10 megabits a second and 100 megabits a second over a single copper pair to replace all of the old controllers used to have things like RS232, device net, back net, all this other stuff. So we have lots of activity both at the very high speed and at the very low speed.
Speaker 1:That's very cool. Interesting Wireless is going the same way. So sort of tracking looking at.
Speaker 2:So the original sort of motto in Ethernet was 10 times the speed for three times the price. It was a great plan until it wasn't anymore. So when we tried to do 100 gig, that was really complicated, so we did 40 instead. Things continued and then we said, actually we're going to go do 25 because that made sense, talking to service, and after that we did 50. And we're also starting to see two and a half five GBT. So we're doing speciation where we're filling in the bits in the middle. So instead of being that we're going to go 10 times as fast for three times the price, we're looking more at the okay, what makes sense, what's consumable.
Speaker 1:Very cool. So when you talk to members and supporters manufacturers, silicon providers, the whole stack what are some of the challenges you see them facing in deploying next generation Ethernet solutions? We've all seen supply chain and challenges on the semiconductor side, but what else? What else are some of their concerns?
Speaker 2:I think on the high speed side of the house. He's a. Power is a huge problem. You go and look at what the web scalers are dealing with right now. For a long time it used to be let me put more. You know more and more. You know one I use so the rack can get full. Now we're at the power. We get enough power into the rack and enough cooling out. So you start to see a lot of work on how to reduce power consumption inside devices. You're also starting to see a lot of work on interesting cooling technologies, being liquid cooling, either hot plate or direct immersion. So both from a sustainability and just a practicality point of view, power consumption is becoming enormously important and for a long time. When you looked at building systems, you sort of tend to say what's the worst case power. These days, particularly in enterprise, we want to focus on what's actually consumed, so we need to be part of a sustainability story and that's some very interesting technical challenges in that.
Speaker 1:Interesting. Yeah, sustainability is becoming the overall principle Now, from day one. Sorry, sam, what were you saying?
Speaker 3:That's fine. I was going to say yeah after. I'm like a data center point of view. If you look at the cost of running a data center, the amount of power that you have to pump into it and the amount of heat you have to deal with dissipating out of it, it's a huge cost burden. And especially as we move to these higher technologies, your cable reach becomes a much bigger challenge. And at 25 gig per lane we could run things at five meters, even maybe seven meters if you're pushing it. Now we're trying to get like one meter out of some of the latest 200 gig standards. So you're having to move to a non-passive medium in a lot more cases.
Speaker 3:Whereas normally you could get away with using a copper cable in a lot of cases, now you're having to use optical modules, aocs, things that are going to extend the reach a little bit, some retimed copper cables, all kinds of stuff. They consume a lot more power. So not only are you consuming a lot more power because you're running at much higher speeds, the DSPs are much more complex. We see significant growth in the power just to achieve the same comparable reaches. But the signal integrity challenge is that you get just mean you cannot go as far Like your cable links shorten a lot. So all of these have an impact on power, and heating really is what it comes down to at the end of the day.
Speaker 1:Yeah, very excellent point. I imagine you're seeing a lot of emerging applications for Ethernet as well. I'm having actually a guest on from Nokia in a few weeks who's building a network on the moon, so you know, interesting use case there. I think it's a 4G network, not a 5G. But what do you see for Ethernet? Do you see Spacebase Ethernet or Underground Ethernet.
Speaker 2:What's next? It's there already. If you look around any of the more interesting high tech stuff you know, if you look inside new rockets or you look inside satellites, people are already using Ethernet inside them. So what you see in general is that the world's adopted the IP stack and everything that runs on top of it, and so if you plug it into Ethernet, it just works. So you can certainly find you find hard and Ethernet all over the place, including drones and Space and airplanes and stuff.
Speaker 3:And it's better just work if it's on a satellite. You can't go and power cycle the system when it's not talking back to you right. That robustness and reliability that Ethernet brings becomes super critical in some of those applications.
Speaker 2:For huge volume. The auto industry is adopting Ethernet quite aggressively because they used to be the same case of having a boatload of older protocols. They want to get rid of them Because your power is basically coming effectively in enterprise network on wheels. It has a local data center inside it and a bunch of processes. So they're aggressively adopting Ethernet, both at the low speed to megabits and also driving up to 25 to 50 gig, and those are the guys who are really going to be driving volume. But I think the answer is anytime you're building a device which is quite smart, you're often going to see Ethernet inside it. Anytime you want to be attached, mostly in one place and connected, you're going to put it on the outside.
Speaker 1:Great insight. Yes, your future mechanics may need to be more like network engineers than old school mechanics when your car goes wrong. So that'll be fun to to watch, or maybe not so fun. Any advice for industry stakeholders who might not be a member of the Ethernet Alliance. You know why should they join? Why should they get involved? Maybe early stage vendors or other kinds of services?
Speaker 2:This is always sort of tricky. So we are the best way to both get in touch with your, to have an outward impact on the world, right? So to go and talk about what it is, to help get gets up up and running it, to help sort of drive the direction of how we message you from it. So I mean, people come in for things like plug this, they come in for vendor demos, they come in for being able to dissipate in the US certification. You know, we are really the people who can drive the industry voice on Ethernet and that's hugely important, along with the vendor voice, because the vendor voice, as you well know, right, we all, we all treat it with a little suspicion for a bunch of reasons.
Speaker 2:So having a coherent industry voice, I think is really matters. I would say we tend to try and set the entire playing field and that people, people play with the site. Does that make sense?
Speaker 1:Oh, totally, totally does, I guess the final thought here you're sorry, sam, anything to add?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I was just going to say on the like, on the plug fest event side, right, that's like I said. That gets the majority of my attention is there and that can be an opportunity for some really early interoperability, right, that many times the vendors are bringing their next generation products, they're still path finding solutions and you know these men, most of the devices there is very common for them to be pre market right. So this is an opportunity to identify, find and fix issues before you're having to, you know, pay your, your customer support team to go out there and debug it. Like we said, we have 224 gig that we're starting to bring in into that space. It's just an opportunity to do, to do testing that you would not be able to do any other feasible way. Not to mention, you get access to millions of dollars worth of conformance test equipment and we do all kinds of fun testing there. So, for you know, depending on what, what type of access you have, you know that it can be a place to get some really some broad evaluation of your device that would otherwise be very spendy potential. So there's, there's all kinds of advantages.
Speaker 3:But, yeah, the last thing I would say is that we we are really member driven. So, you know, everyone who comes into the HSN, you know, is the world that I'm most familiar with who has ideas, request suggestions. We I listen, we hear that we are constantly evolving and improving and seeking feedback and really just trying to to do what it is that the membership desires. That's what drives us at the end of the day. So, if you know, if you have some ideas or requests, join us, bring your ideas, please. We'll. We'll go make a morality.
Speaker 2:So of course I'm going to hang on to that one. So so, sam is looking at the world of how we make sure that it just works Now. Then, when we have it just working, we'll go and show it off. And if you're a smaller company, right, getting an interop demo with the Giants is really hard. So we have a place to go and show that off where, even though the Giants don't necessarily need to be there, right, the small companies absolutely need it. Right, showing yourself working is important.
Speaker 2:Then what we do is we help you tell a story around the technology. So our goal is to have a voice from all of internet, and for smaller companies that's really hard to do. Bigger companies, as I said, I think the the role for us is to help make a single playing field that we argue inside. The worst thing for almost all of our vendors is if we start slush the market into smaller pieces, we all lose. So that's the. You know, the A is the place where we can talk, is the voice of the industry to all of our consumers.
Speaker 1:Oh, it's a wonderful mission and it's a great community. That's not not a profit marketing driven, community driven grassroots. It's great to hear what do you?
Speaker 2:what do you think you know? Because I get to talk from the entire community, so it's a wonderful thing.
Speaker 1:Awesome. What are you, Peter, thinking about? What's next in terms of your travel events, personally, professionally, your day job, as well as the Ethernet Alliance? What's next to the next few weeks for you?
Speaker 2:So I just got back from an editorial three meeting in St Petersburg, Florida. Next week I'm going to Amsterdam for a Cisco live event. I was obviously speaking for myself. There is a, there's an editorial three meeting Denver. There's another one in Annapolis in May, Cisco live in June, three in July overseas in the somewhere, ECOX in somewhere else. So I generally get to go. I'm lucky enough to go and actually talk to a lot of people both on the development and consuming side, and that sort of informs how I try and tell my story.
Speaker 1:Oh, well, said, that's a busy, fun agenda. What about you, sam? What's on your radar for the next few months?
Speaker 3:Yeah Well, I stay a little closer to home. My day job is I don't get the travel perks that Peter gets. Necessarily. We have to fix that, come on.
Speaker 3:Yeah right, so from an EA standpoint we're finalizing some of the results from our last plug fest and gearing up to share those. We are able to publish those, some of the anonymous results from that event, and then we're already starting to think about the next event. So, like I said, some of the testing that we did at this last event is helping inform IEEE decisions. Right now we're looking at hoping to have some of the outcomes of that in the May timeframe coming out of IEEE. So trying to target the next testing event shortly after that, so late May, early June, looking at our next plug fest to sort of continue this testing, just kind of back and forth evolution of as IEEE standards are developing.
Speaker 3:We'll take that latest, greatest new methodologies, whatever the case is. And yeah, those events take a lot of planning, a lot of bandwidth. So we're going to start gearing up for that now and then in the day job my team's got a couple of new devices that have recently powered on so we get to go and have all the fun of what it looks like, integrating those in our interrupt test environments and building tools and enabling customers and all of that. So always plenty to do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, fair bit of news happening around Intel these days, so that sounds fascinating. Well, thanks so much, gentlemen. It's been a really insightful discussion. As a former electrical engineer double E of 30 years ago it's have a lot of catching up to do, so it's great to get an insight into the latest and greatest. And, yeah, reach out everyone to the Ethernet Alliance, follow them on social media. You guys have tons of great content as well on social. That's how I came across you. Thanks so much.
Speaker 3:Awesome. Thanks so much for having us on, really appreciate it.
Speaker 1:Hey, thank you. Thanks everyone for watching Take care. Thanks, thanks, yawshawgate.