What's Up with Tech?
Tech Transformation with Evan Kirstel: A podcast exploring the latest trends and innovations in the tech industry, and how businesses can leverage them for growth, diving into the world of B2B, discussing strategies, trends, and sharing insights from industry leaders!
With over three decades in telecom and IT, I've mastered the art of transforming social media into a dynamic platform for audience engagement, community building, and establishing thought leadership. My approach isn't about personal brand promotion but about delivering educational and informative content to cultivate a sustainable, long-term business presence. I am the leading content creator in areas like Enterprise AI, UCaaS, CPaaS, CCaaS, Cloud, Telecom, 5G and more!
What's Up with Tech?
Reflecting on the Evolution of Mobile World Congress: The Impact of 5G, Telecom Innovation, and the Rise of Cloud and AI
Interested in being a guest? Email us at admin@evankirstel.com
Embark on a trip down memory lane with us and edge computing maestro Pete as we unravel the storied history of Mobile World Congress (MWC). It's a tale of transformation, from a modest gathering in Cannes to the colossal event it is today, teetering on the brink of an existential crossroads as cloud technology and AI ascend the throne. Tune in to hear our reflection on the evolution of MWC, from its roots in mobile communication to the current ecosystem where infrastructure and innovation are front and center. We weigh in on how industry titans like Apple and Samsung have reshaped the event's landscape and speculate on the future where cloud and AI reign supreme.
Pete and I don't shy away from the tough questions as we dissect the narrative of 5G and its transformative impact on the telecom sector. Could 5G standalone networks revolutionize latency, bandwidth, and spectrum efficiency as predicted? We're not just pondering; we're digging into the implications for businesses and private networks, even considering Telstra's pioneering move as a telco solution provider. Our debate on whether telecom companies should remain glorified 'smart pipes' or pivot towards becoming solution providers is sure to provide some food for thought. Plus, we spotlight the trend of telcos breaking new ground by inviting developer innovation with CPaaS offerings.
As we wrap up this episode, we take a moment to reflect on the shifting dynamics of major tech events like MWC and CES. Do they risk losing their essence by spreading themselves too thin, or is their evolution a necessity in the rapidly changing tech landscape? From Lenovo's rumored transparent laptop to the practicality of 5G-enabled cars, we explore the challenges and strategic decisions that lie ahead for the tech and telecom industries. Finally, a heartfelt thank you goes out to all of you who have tuned in. Keep the conversation going at MWC or join in online with #MWC24 – your engagement is what makes our tech community thrive.
More at https://linktr.ee/EvanKirstel
All right hey everybody.
Speaker 2:We are live and I'm here with Pete and we're talking all things mobile in anticipation of Mobile World Congress, and we're going to do a little walk through memory lane as two older guys who have been to many, many Mobile World Congresses over the years. Peter, I know you have ideas, you have insights, you have things on your mind in advance of MWC, as do I. We want to share those. Before we dive into all things MWC, maybe for those who don't know Pete, introduce yourself a little bit about your incredible background and your current mission. That excels you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so, Pete Bernhardt, I spent about 14 years in Silicon Valley doing kind of firmware, phone edge, IoT things Went to Microsoft, spent about 18 years at Microsoft doing similar things with Windows Phone and Azure Edge and things like that. And then I started a company called EdgeCell Cior and we focus on edge computing, all things edge computing where that's heading, who's doing what? What are the strategies to scale your business in the space? And, yeah, it's been a lot of fun. So it's great to talk about a show that I think anyone who's been involved in telecom it's been part of their experience for the past 20 years or so, and so anytime NWC comes around, it always stirs up lots of memories and anticipation of where things are going and what's happening, so it's a good time to talk about it.
Speaker 2:Well, let's look back, because this industry, this show in particular, has a long lineage that started off as 3GSM. I think I was there and you were there. I vague a recollection of it, but what's your recollection?
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, I mean. So my first time at the show was in 2002. I was working for a company that was selling embedded Java JVMs for handsets and things like that, and at the time it was in Cannes, in France, for about. I think the show actually started in 1987 in Brussels, so 2002 was the first time I went there. It was called 3GSM and we had actually rented a boat.
Speaker 1:So one of the cool things about having it in Cannes, which is not the case in Barcelona was it was all down at the docks and you had all these boats lined up. Some of them were like yachts from these big companies. We had rented a boat, there was about six or eight of us, we slept on the boat, we had demos on the boat, we had meeting rooms, our meeting room was on the boat and it was a great community there. Probably about 25,000, 30,000 people showed up maybe Max, I think, in Cannes and of course, that was early days of data and obviously five years before the iPhone was introduced and Android and things like that, so it was early.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I may have been there a lot earlier then, because I was there when it was 300 people in Cannes and the first GSM phone had just been launched it was the Nokia and the first roaming agreements had been agreed and that was all the talk. And I remember Qualcomm was there for the first time because they had just introduced CDMA as a standard and that was the big battle of the day. That was CDMA versus GSM, and someone like stole the Qualcomm slides from their presentation and it was a very dramatic event at the time. This is all history now. I mean, fast forward to today. Where are we with the mobile industry? The good, the bad, the ugly people.
Speaker 1:You know it's interesting. I was taking a look at doing some of my own research too, about where things have been heading. I think that you know, as you may know, the show was canceled in 2020. They delayed it in 21. And they're getting back on track, but it certainly is a different time. I mean, the industry has shifted quite a bit and the show has a little bit of an anachronistic feel to it. To be honest with you at this point, there is still a big part of MWC which is about phones and phone introductions, and we will definitely see some interesting new phones there. You know, from the Jalmese, hmd, samsung, lenovo, we'll have some devices and things. So there's that part of the show which is still happening. But you know, I mean, apple has never been there. It's not an Apple show. Samsung does their unpacked event, so it's not really a show to break news on devices that much. And then you know, the other thing that's been happening in the past few years is that the whole industry has become very I don't want to say cloud-cloudified or virtualized, you know, and with things like OpenRAN and kind of the cloudification of all these systems, and now with AI, that's, you know, very cloud-driven.
Speaker 1:At this point, the center of gravity in the industry has really shifted, I think, away from phones and even the telco infrastructure. Kind of. The big story is this cloudification and kind of transformation that's going on. So I think the show is kind of at a is having an existential crisis, I think, just like the industry is around like okay, where do we go from here? Like who are we exactly as an industry? And so I think that is going to be one of the themes.
Speaker 1:I think you know, to the credit of the show folks, I think there's going to be like 90,000 people there this year in Barcelona. It's very well laid out. There's plenty of buses and cabs and things to see and things to do and, of course, the restaurants are fantastic. But the real question is like where's this industry heading and how are people going to monetize it, you know, beyond the telcos and beyond the mobile operators. So that's kind of what's been on my mind, I think. It's like I think it's an opportunity and a challenge, because I think we are at sort of an existential crossroads with the telco industry as things become more cloudified, more, you know, by design. So that's kind of what's on my mind these days.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, it's a show that will be dominated, at least by share of voice, by the hyperscalers who've kind of upstaged the telco. The telco is certainly one hyperscaler In particular. Your old stomping grounds at Microsoft will just be there in force. Any predictions or insights to what Microsoft will it be it up to at MWC?
Speaker 1:Well, I mean, I think I think Microsoft I would put AWS in this camp too, although Microsoft has a little more in the offering plate since they acquired MetaSwitch and affirmed right. I mean, the whole idea is, how do you take your kind of bespoke proprietary telco infrastructure for packet switching and move that to a cloud right? And so you're, you know, making bets on hyperscalers to move some of your telco info workloads to places like Azure and AWS and GCP and other places like that. So I think Microsoft will be pushing that story pretty hard in terms of, you know, being able to handle that, having some case studies on that and enable telcos to reduce their costs and be more agile and leverage all of the, you know, infrastructure equipment that Microsoft and the hyperscalers are putting in place. That all being said, you know that's a kind of a big bet for a lot of telcos to make that leap right.
Speaker 1:And I think what we've seen is, you know the folks like Nokia and Ericsson that have been kind of the stalwarts of the telco infrastructure you know, embracing things like OpenRAN and providing the kind of solutions and infrastructure to telcos and also still being, you know, nokia and Ericsson as suppliers. So it'll be interesting to see sort of how that plays out like who leaps into the full cloudified telco infra versus, you know, sort of stays the course with their own equipment and their own cloud, but leverages Nokia and Ericsson. So I think that's kind of where, you know, if used to be GSM and CDMA, now it's going to be sort of Nokia, ericsson, openran versus hyperscalers. You know see who's going to get the win for that stuff.
Speaker 2:So yeah, it looks like the hyperscalers are really teaming up with the telcos. I know Microsoft had a huge deal with Vodafone.
Speaker 1:Vodafone is a dominant player.
Speaker 2:So it really is, you know, co-opetition in some way partnering more than you know, stepping on each other's toes, or you think that's going to change? I think so.
Speaker 1:Well, it's interesting to think about, like telcos are, you know, very big enterprises right that have to run their operations, and many of them do rely on companies like Microsoft to run their operations right. So, you know, microsoft does have an advantage in that they can go to a Vodafone and partner at like five or six different levels and helping them with their AI, you know, and their customer service and their OSS, bss integration, and they can help them in like six or seven different ways, including, you know, packet core, switching into the cloud. So that's an advantage of a hyperscale. I think AWS could be something similar. Even though they don't have their own packet core, they could go in there to a telco and help, you know, help them in their digital transformation journey, whereas someone like Anoki or Ericsson, you know, is really much more about I'm going to give you this high-performance solution for, you know, your 5G standalone stuff and you know us and we bought from us from a decade or two, and so that's their sort of competitive advantage. So it's interesting to see like one of the big things that's happened over the past, probably five years or so, is this whole idea of virtualization of software and virtualization of workloads is now saying well, there's containers and it can run all over the place and we can orchestrate them and we don't need custom ASICs with proprietary switches that sit in a rack somewhere. And that's like, I think, when you think about OpenRAN, that is the kind of the big leap of faith that telecosers are thinking about, like how much do I invest in this kind of open architecture quote, unquote since they've been pretty bespoke and proprietary for decades, for good reason.
Speaker 1:And I think that's the existential twist that's happening, I think, with a lot of these folks. And we've seen announcements. I mean AT&T announced OpenRAN investments, I mean dishes, they're already there. The rack of 10s are already there. A lot of the disruptors are already there.
Speaker 1:But it's just a matter of, like, the folks like Vodafone who've made the right signals in AT&T and some of the big folks that have been around for 50 years, when do they start switching over into this new cloudified telco infrastructure? So I think that's kind of an undercurrent at the show is who's leaping into the cloud and how are they doing it and who are they doing it with? But you're right, there'll be a lot of noise out there about that, and I was at MWC in Vegas in the fall I think I was talking to there and, yeah, a lot of open discussions about OpenRAN and how to get there from here and how to do interrupt testing, and it's very hard to, as you may know I'm sure you do it's like you break up an ecosystem, like maybe breaking up a solution into an ecosystem is very hard to do If something is closed to then disaggregated into pieces and have everyone make a piece that works together. That's complicated and I think that's a lot of what the telco industry is struggling with right now.
Speaker 2:Great insight. And if that's an undertone, an overtone might be what's next with 5G? I mean, we sort of had this overhype, overmarketing of 5G. We talked a lot about things that were maybe five years ahead of time, like tele-robotic surgery, bananas from across the country and autonomous cars and things that just were outside of the actual deliverable of the network and, funny enough, I think we're catching up now with standalone 5G and I guess people are calling it 5.5G. I guess that's a while way, but what's the reality of 5G? And the operators are really desperate for ROI on all this network.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, you hit the nail on the head. I think it was originally sold with the promise of a lot of this 5G standalone network slicing, remote surgery around bananas kind of thing. Yeah, probably many years ahead of when that was actually being deployed. The good news is now 5G standalone is getting deployed. There is enough handsets out there where they don't need the LTE legacy stuff as much, and so when the 5G standalone actually gets deployed and it is being rolled out around the world, that actually does deliver on a lot of the promises that were made three to five years ago about 5G around latency and bandwidth and, frankly, of much more efficient use of spectrum for all these telcos that paid a lot of money for their spectrums. They can get more bits in there at lower cost with 5G standalone. So that is probably the next big thing and it'll deliver on a lot of the earlier promises of 5G. So I think the sooner that gets rolled out, the better.
Speaker 1:Now, will that unlock things like remote surgery and headset-based gaming and stuff? Probably not, not for a while, but I think it will actually enable 5G to be a lot more commercially viable for businesses, for fixed wireless, for private 5G, for 5G red cap, which is the low-power LPE WAN type stuff. You'll start to see it actually replace or augment Wi-Fi and a lot of other commercial deployments as we get to more of the standalone deployment. So I think that's kind of the next phase, like we've gotten out of the okay, everyone has a 5G phone. We did the non-standalone. It's a little faster. Now we're moving into the next phase where it actually will be faster and lower latency and you'll have more commercial use cases that'll be usable with the network.
Speaker 2:So looking forward to that. Well, it's just taken longer than we hope. But say Levy, that's life, everything takes longer than expected. It's an interesting show in that it's kind of a big automotive show. There's a lot of automotive technology. There's embedded technology for tracking and sensors and analytics in car. Qualcomm has a big push there. That's kind of a new twist. I mean, automobiles now are they're computers on wheels? They're also phones on wheels, right, I mean they're, they're yeah.
Speaker 1:I mean, it's a software defined vehicle is a hot space. We saw it at CES as well, although interestingly at CES we didn't have the major car manufacturers there. But I think this this is another. You know, if the telco world is going through this existential crisis, so is the automotive world. Right, they're moving from like metal bending to like software deployment and you know all that stuff, and so it's a whole new generation of of players in that space. You mentioned Qualcomm, but also NXP and Infineon and other folks that are in there. So it's a it's a really good use case for connectivity, clearly. And you know, I think it's an opportunity for telcos to be a pipe to those cars.
Speaker 1:I don't know if I don't know. You know I'm skeptical of, you know telcos doing more than just providing a pipe to cars, to be honest with you. So you know, I think telcos sort of need to figure out and this is where I talk about like saving telcos from themselves is kind of my theme Is a telcos need to figure out what lane they're in, no pun intended. They're either. They are either an incredibly smart pipe, right, that's like high performance, low latency, great, you know, capabilities with the spectrum that they have and great tariffs and all kinds of great stuff. Or you know they're a solution provider right, and they're actually going out there and deploying solutions for commercial businesses and ports and airports and water systems and you know car manufacturers and stuff.
Speaker 1:You sort of have to Pick a lane and and be really good at it and I think telcos have struggled with which one are they in. You know they're sort of like, well, we do this, we want to be a solution provider, but really our key metric is, you know, subscriber ads. It's like, well that you know you got to sort of have different metrics for success. If you're a solution provider, then if you are a pipe. So you know it'll be interesting to see how the telcos position themselves at MWC. You know which lane they're in and who's doing what like. For example, one of the great success stories on Solution providers is Telstra. So Telstra, which actually has been around for about a hundred years or so, they started as like a post office.
Speaker 2:No kidding. Well, some of their hotlines are probably a hundred years old.
Speaker 1:Yes, that's true, probably, but they, they are really an incredible solution provider these days. They provide all kinds of like you know, you know water treatment and Rail systems and all kinds of stuff across Australia. I'd heard a stat somewhere about only about 50% of their solutions are even cellular based, like they'll solve stuff with Wi-Fi if that makes sense for them, and so they really really out Some great, great stuff. They really embrace the solution mindset and they've made it work. And and there's a there's a few folks like telcos that have done that and other telcos to say hey look, we're just a really super smart pipe where we're really cost efficient or low latency. So that's that's kind of one of those things too where, now that things are getting more cloudified, you know telcos have to figure out like what's there, what's their reason for being? Which one are they?
Speaker 2:So yeah, and I think one of the big reasons for being that, of course, is applications. And finally we're seeing telcos opening up the network to developers. The CPAS communications as a platform, as a service, is beginning to take hold. We're seeing, actually, telcos start to embrace developers and and building innovative Products, services, on their networks, so that that's kind of refreshing to see as well. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:That'll be interesting to see.
Speaker 2:I mean, there's the Vonage stuff from Ericsson and you know, like you mentioned, info bit is a big player there with its various telco partners, enabling you know CX and you know AI, yeah messaging kind of solutions.
Speaker 1:It'll be interesting to see what are the applications that take advantage of those functions. And so you know, from a developer perspective, in as much as those can be, kind of you know part of the bigger developer story. You know, I think one of the things that's challenging is if you sort of create a developer Ecosystem where developers have to do something special for your network versus someone else's network, then it's kind of hard right. I mean, there's Microsoft does a good job at developing developers. You know AWS, you know sort of like. How do you expose your network through these kind of standard developer ecosystems so that people don't have to think about? You know, oh, this is running on Verizon versus Vodafone versus whatever. So so that that's. That's interesting to see. I'm not sure how monetizable that is. To be honest with you, is that really gonna drive subscriber ads? What's it, you know? But I mean, it's not bad, it's a good thing.
Speaker 2:Hey, it's a step in the right direction. The other thing that I'm intrigued by you probably are as well Is this new satellite component to the whole mobile industry. Who would have thought five years ago, even ten years ago, that you could talk to a satellite from your mobile Device directly off the shelf? I mean, this is science fiction territory, but yeah, given signal processing and radio and all this stuff and software radio we're seeing it happen. Yeah, I think it's gonna happen. A revolutionary impact on this Industry, of course Starlink is is already you know. Yeah, I know Khyper will be there disruptor. I guess that's something you're gonna be watching too.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So yeah, I mentioned the Khyper folks from AWS will be that the show and then Magnata, I think, will be there too. I think this whole Satellite story is very exciting. I think it's actually probably more interesting for IoT and Edge than it is for consumer handsets. I mean, I think you know you're not to be pretty far out in the boonies to require satellite connection for your, for your iPhone, which could happen, and so you know if you're you're hiking, your camping and stuff like that's good. I'm more interested in, like, well, like for oil and gas companies or any of these companies that have you know far-flung assets to do anomaly Detection and all kinds of other things. Getting those things connected Through some sort of satellite cellular connection would be really amazing. That's always been. The challenge is how do you get those things connected? You know mining companies, you know far-flung industrial things, transportation things, leveraging satellite connectivity for that and even even you know, maritime shipping voting market.
Speaker 2:That's kind of on you fulfilled or the solutions aren't very satisfactory. Aerospace we all have bad Wi-Fi on planes, which we complain about. It's still amazing to do have internet at 30,000 feet, but we still complain now about the news and the latency. So lots of interesting use cases. Geopolitics is something we can't escape Either. I'm guessing the Russian contingent will be non-existent this year. You see lots of Russian telcos and Russian people coming to MWC. I'm guessing they're not going to be there. China is always there, the big Chinese delegations and vendors. Do you have any thoughts on the geopolitics? Are we going to?
Speaker 2:continue to divide with China.
Speaker 1:These days, technology is a geopolitical enterprise. I mean, you can't be a tech company without a geopolitical strategy of who you're buying from and who you're selling to. So I think it'll be on everyone's mind about how they grow their business and in that environment and also how do they build the right set of dependencies in the supply chain and in their customary chain to grow the business. So I think it's going to be interesting. Open ran there was an article in the Washington Post today about Open ran and it was positioned as a hedge against Huawei. So the Biden administration is pushing Open ran so that once you disaggregate this ecosystem, then it's easier to not have to use Huawei in your telco infrastructure, which I could see that. So it's interesting to see how some of these technology investments are being used to help balance the geopolitical scales, as it were. But it's definitely going to be interesting.
Speaker 1:I think on the semiconductor side, that's goes a lot of news about that and what China is doing with their semiconductor investments and using last year's ASML machines to do five nanometer tips, which will get them pretty far.
Speaker 1:But then what happens?
Speaker 1:I don't know if we'll hear too much about that at the show, but I know that, for example, a lot of the Chinese operators have been pretty far ahead in doing things like network slicing and other things that they've been able to do with 5G before A lot of the Western telcos have been able to do it.
Speaker 1:Their infrastructure for LP-WAN and IoT and Edge is incredibly robust. It's unfortunate, I think, that there isn't more ability to share and learn these days between some of these entities. Hopefully that'll thaw at some point. But the other fact is, unfortunately, the fact is that you mentioned, like Starlink and some of these connectivity capabilities are being used, like in the war in Ukraine and other places and use of drones and a lot of intelligent connected things used by military. That's a fact and that is, in one hand, driving investment and innovation and, at the other hand, creating some real disruption and real scary scenarios. So I think anyone who's in the tech business, like I said, has to have a geopolitical strategy and think about what they're doing and who they're doing it with and all that other stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the supply chain now as well, has become top of mind to everyone. What do you think is next for Mobile World Congress and the GSMA? Do you think it's just another 25 years ahead, or does this industry need more disruption or reinvention when it comes to events shows?
Speaker 1:Well, it'd be interesting to see if they pivot a little more, because I think connectivity is becoming a much more of a pastiche of technologies. So can MWC evolve into more of a connectivity community, as opposed to just cellular? It's been very telco cellular license spectrum oriented and I would love to see it talk about more unlicensed spectrum and other things that are happening out there. We talked about satellite. There's things like Laura Wann and other types of unlicensed spectrum communication technologies that are also part of the equation. So I don't think it can become a cloud show. That doesn't really make any sense. It's still got to be a connectivity show. Personally, I think the whole idea of introducing phones and devices there is kind of passe. So I, but I think there's something around the connectivity community that it needs a good once a year or twice a year event to come together and figure stuff out. I feel like MWC owns that space.
Speaker 1:I think they just have to be careful about not turning into the oh, we're the cloud AI folks, or we're the whatever it's like, you're the connectivity folks. It's fine to be just that, so we'll see. It's 90,000 people this year. Will they get more next year? I don't know. I feel like once shows get to about 100,000 people, they start to sort of collapse upon themselves, you know like CES has turned into sort of everything that runs on electricity show, which is like I like when they're a little more, a little more more valuable, when they're a little more focused, I think.
Speaker 1:So hopefully MWC can can stay there. There is one piece of news that I'm interested in getting my hands on. I mean, I was just kind of just you know, introducing devices, but apparently Lenovo is going to introduce like a transparent laptop at MWC and so this is like a CES announcement, not an MWC.
Speaker 2:I know it's like.
Speaker 1:It's like a dual screen laptop, which is cool, but then the flip up screen, you know, is transparent and so you know I guess you can see through it when it's not turned on. So anyway that that to me feels like the coolest device being introduced. But I had probably has nothing to do with, again, connectivity or MWC, but apparently that's the rumors, that they have a press announcement and they're going to introduce this transparent laptops.
Speaker 2:I'm going to check that out and I will be the judge if it's truly transparent. I just want Apple to put a SIM and ECM in its MacBook here. I mean, there are so many little things in our space that could be done. Maybe not transparent laptops, but just 5G laptops. That would be nice. Or you know other kinds of devices.
Speaker 1:Well, it's interesting, there is a real push there with like windows on Snapdragon and some of the things that Microsoft was doing to leverage. You know it's great to have Qualcomm powered. You know laptops, but you know obviously something that's integrated 5G, the always connected PC, is always a. It was a great promise, right? Because you don't. You don't have to ask the barista for a password to get connected on your laptop. Like, imagine if you had to do that with your phone, that would be insane. So why not do it in the laptop? And I think you know you're pointing out an interesting problem to be solved. The issue is primarily just economics. That you know. Adding 5G radios and all the front end preamps and all the goo on there, it increases the bomb, you know. So now you're adding a couple of hundred bucks to the price of the laptop and we all know when you go into Costco something costs 1200 and something costs a thousand. You're like go for the thousand.
Speaker 2:So Apple, Apple's charging $3,500 for a headset. So I think they can afford to add a little. You'd think they could special sauce to that.
Speaker 1:But then the other issue is once you get the radio in there and the eSIM, then it's like well, who are you paying per month and how much have that laptop connected? You've never really had telcos embrace that opportunity. So do you want to pay an extra 20 or 30 bucks a month for your laptop? And then that kind of falls flat too.
Speaker 2:So these are the kind of questions, these are the kind of questions you help clients answer. Right Before we wrap up here, maybe a little plug for your services, your consulting work.
Speaker 1:So, actually, if you want to learn more about what we were just all talking about, on my YouTube channel I have a video series called Saving Telco from Itself, and so I walked through a lot of these different things that you know telcos and people supplying the telco ecosystem can get involved with. And yeah, I do help companies figure out kind of this strategy on how to scale their business, how to kind of crack some of these nuts that are really hard to figure out so they can get to the next level. But you know, we started talking about what was happening 20 years ago. I think we're still struggling with some of the same issues. But how do you get the tech to a price point and a delivery mechanism where it really solves problems? And I think that's what we're going to see at MWC this year. The same thing the chips are faster, the networks are better, Everyone's a little older, but it's still the same challenges, and so hopefully we'll start to solve some of those.
Speaker 2:Well, always look forward to your insights and analysis. And thanks everyone for watching. Reach out If you're at MWC or even online. Mwc24 is the hashtag. Always happy to chat and banter and connect. Thanks everyone for watching.
Speaker 1:Sounds good.
Speaker 2:Thanks, Evan Take care, peter, talk to you soon.