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Decoding Gen Z Retail Dynamics: @Five9's Insights into Brand Loyalty, AI, and Shopping Trends

• Evan Kirstel

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Explore the world of Gen Z retail behavior with insights from Niki Hall, CMO of Five9, as she offers revelations from a groundbreaking study on how Gen Z interacts with brands. Discover the nuances of customer service and the role of AI in building brand loyalty, with personal stories from Gen Z members like Faye who recount their engaging experiences with brands like Coach and Lululemon. This episode promises to unveil the secrets behind what makes Gen Z tick in the ever-evolving retail landscape.

Journey through the varied experiences with customer service across retail brands, where tales of frustrations with Zara contrast sharply with praise for Massimo Dutti's consistent service. Hear stories of excellence from a favored airline that knows how to keep its customers loyal by remembering personal preferences. The episode doesn't shy away from the challenges, delving into the pitfalls of automation and inefficiencies in handling customer issues.

The conversation extends to the shopping trends that define Gen Z and Gen Alpha, highlighting the allure of thrift shopping for its sustainability and unique style. With insights into the impact of social media and the influence of TikTok on purchasing decisions, listeners can expect a comprehensive look at how younger generations navigate the retail world. Closing with a tease of an upcoming study on technology and customer experiences, this episode is packed with revelations that promise to enhance your understanding of the next-gen consumer landscape.

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Speaker 1:

I am the founder of Burns Communications Group and also the founder of the Z-Suite, which is a retail influencer network made up of Gen Z-ers and basically we serve as a think tank for retailers and brands to better understand how Gen Z thinks, how they act, and at the end of our session we're going to open it up to a Q&A. So we speak at a lot of events.

Speaker 1:

People want to talk to them all night long, but they'll be around, so we'll do more panels over about 20 minutes and then we'll open it up to questions so we're so happy to be here. Here we have Nikki Hall, the CMO of Flag 9.

Speaker 4:

And.

Speaker 1:

Faye and Win, Minnie and Sash, and they'll introduce themselves. Are they anonymous? Is that what? Everyone's been asking Well, I'm sorry, is that?

Speaker 5:

very good, it's funny. I'm gonna have them introduce themselves. So I just wanted Nikki to start out by talking about why we conducted the study and what she was looking to get out of it, and I can start by telling you I am not a tennis player-er, I'm not, no, but I do have a daughter who's a Gen Z-er, and that's how I met Stacy. It was at Inter-F, but years ago I think it was, and she was doing an interview.

Speaker 5:

I think you were on the panel, actually, and I told my daughter about it and she applied. And she became a part of the Z-suite and as CMO of 59, I really cared about customer service and support and Sophia was telling me that's my daughter that she had a return to do for free people An outfit she bought. Jillian wore it once, she hand washed it but it was starting to run and she's like I'm just going to call in. I'm like what?

Speaker 2:

You're a.

Speaker 5:

Gen Z-er You're going to call in, you're going to use voice. I thought it was all digital, so that prompted us to say, huh, we should do a study and understand how Gen Z really want to interact with brands during service and support, and some of the findings will be pretty interesting service and support and some of the findings will be pretty interesting.

Speaker 1:

So what we did is Nikki was nice enough to give, I think, 10 or 11 of our C-suite members about $250, and they were required to spend the money and return one thing online, and so we'll talk about that experience.

Speaker 5:

And they had to document their experience as an attorney or engaging the brand. And then we also did a quantitative study with 1,000 test years and how they like to interact with the brand Is it AI, is it human, et cetera.

Speaker 1:

So with that, Faye is going to introduce herself. We're going to do brief introductions. Tell us your name, where you're from, if you're in school or where you're working. Okay, hi everyone. My name is Faye Shui. I'm currently a senior at UPenn. I'm going back to L'Oréal for a time to do digital marketing post-grad and I'm currently studying abroad in Paris. Been learning the language for about a decade now, but my family lives in Salt Lake City, utah, with the mountains. My family lives in Salt.

Speaker 4:

Lake City, utah, with the mountains. Hi, I'm Amy Allen. I was born in London. I now live in London full time and I work as an assistant operations manager for a food manufacturing facility.

Speaker 7:

I'm Sasha Vaughn. I'm from Jordan, then moved to Atlanta for university and now I work as a transfer pricing associate with BDO.

Speaker 1:

So one thing we've learned about Genesee is that they are quick to cancel a brand when they're not happy, but sometimes they become loyal to a brand because of their experience, and so I would love for each of you to talk about one bad experience where you walked away from a brand, or a great experience where you became loyal. Take your pick, faye. I'll talk about two great experiences. Actually, these are two brands that have kind kind of thrown out for different reasons, one of them being Coach. My mom growing up has owned a lot of Coach items and I would steal a lot of her little purses and wristlets from the closet because I wanted to be fashionable. But growing up I also went on the Coach website a lot because I found a lot of stylish and affordable options and a lot of gems on the outlet website. But I ordered a wristlet set off the outlet website, actually from Paris, for my friend's birthday and I was like, oh shoot, the package is already like in the process of getting processed and shipped and everything. It's the price tag and the receipts that are going to be in there.

Speaker 1:

I'm freaking out because I'm like I don't want my friends to freak out upon seeing a receipt in there.

Speaker 1:

So I actually pulled up a chatbot and I asked the virtual assistant. I was like, can you guys help me confirm if all the price tags and the receipts are going to be excluded from the package? And just from that interaction with the itself, we were able to confirm to them that yes, because the shipping address is different from my billing address, they automatically just exclude it, all price tags, all receipts fromackaged, and then later when I went to initiate a return, they had all of my information saved in the system. I never had to make a call. They also did a really good job establishing when I was speaking with a chatbot, like an AI chatbot, and when I was speaking with an actual representative on the chat system, and that was also a really smooth process, since they had all of my information connected to my account and I didn't have to take any extra steps.

Speaker 1:

The second brand I want to talk about is Lululemon. I'm a figure skater, so I've come of grown up purchasing a lot of athletic wear from the brand, and recently I was looking for a new jacket, one for training at the rink and also doubling as a running jacket.

Speaker 1:

But I was stuck in between in two different styles, and I knew that Lululemon had a chatbot but I had never used it before. So I pulled it up just out of curiosity. But I had never used it before. So I pulled it up just out of curiosity and to my surprise there was a button for styling advice.

Speaker 2:

And I was like wow.

Speaker 1:

I've never gotten styling advice before from a chatbot, but let's try it out, why not? And they actually pulled up a virtual representative. This was an actual human responding to everything that I was asking, but the interesting thing about it is that, instead of having me pull up the chatbot on the website, the chat embedded itself into my iMessages which I thought was the coolest thing, because I didn't have to keep the window open on the website.

Speaker 1:

I could just respond to all the chatbot messages in my iMessages like a regular text, which I thought was really convenient, and I had the opportunity to speak with a really lovely virtual representative. He gave me a recommendation on which jacket might work better for me and we had a little lovely conversation at the end because he mentioned that his girlfriend actually has the same jacket for running and I was like your girlfriend has good taste and that kind of just left me with a really pleasant, memorable experience and I was already willing to move to London as a theatre skater, but this kind of just opened up a new perspective on what being a customer from the digital side looks like. So yeah, I won't be going into that.

Speaker 5:

I had to go and leave a letter and suggest a remark, so that's not where it starts. Oh, ok.

Speaker 1:

I'm keeping up.

Speaker 4:

OK. So I got to say well, online shopping is a thing no one does it at all. So it's been a rather studio experience for me, especially now that I'm working, because I don't have time to go into a shop anymore. And I bought three shirts from Zara and I've always been a massive Zara fan, kind of love their items. But I got a notification saying my item's out for delivery.

Speaker 4:

Two days later my package was still out for delivery. No idea where it was. Two more days later it was still out for delivery. So I tried all of them. There's no phone number for Sarah in the UK and I get talked to a chatbot which keeps trying to take me to an FAQ page. Then every time I try and remote the conversation it clears up. So I spent three hours trying to work out where my package was in the first place. And then my package arrives. They sent me the wrong items and I had to send them back to get a return on an exchange. Took me another three hours. When I sent my item back to get the credit. I didn't get it. Made the world look better. No, it took two weeks, literally two weeks.

Speaker 4:

I have only now got two of the racketers. So I've always loved Zara, but I'm really struggling now so I can't go back to them and be willing to spend money with them. But it's a massive conflict for me because I love Maximo duty and there is, I'd say, my brother, brad, but the experience I've. But it's a massive conflict for me because I love Massimo duty and they're a fantastic entrepreneur brand, but the experience I've had with Massimo has always been so much better. All of my clients have been super quick, their delivery was really fast and all of my exchanges with them throughout you know what the fabric's made of, what I'm getting has always been so much better. But I think it's so interesting that two brands I've always loved who are owned by the same company. It's such a wonderful experience.

Speaker 5:

Not everyone uses the same technology. So the IV company right there, who's the CIM of the IV? They use all the same technology of the amount of restaurant brands. Actually, you'll hear about it tomorrow. It's on a general session.

Speaker 1:

Nini, you also have a great experience with an airline that you told me about.

Speaker 4:

I do. I have always loved super airlines. I mean I grew up out there. My one of my parents has lived there since I was 16. So I've been on my whole day to like back and forth and since I can't be back. But I pulled them up a couple weeks ago to try and book a flight to go back into price family and when I caught them they still had all of my details and file. They knew whether I was allowed to sit in the window or in the aisle kind of what time flight signs to always get. And it felt so nice to still be recognised by a brand, especially when you know I was a kid who'd fly back and forth, back and bus. But they still acknowledge, you know, a returning customer.

Speaker 7:

So I love. Essence it's a retail department company based out of Montreal, and for the sake, of our exercise it was so easy to return the items.

Speaker 7:

They just had it on the website it automatically links to your account, to your order number. And then I tried to kind of take it a step further and say well, I don't want to return it, I just want to exchange a few items. And so they worked with me and said eventually just write us a little paper, but we have it saved on your order so that when we do receive it we can just exchange it and ship it back to you quickly and just their customer experience is phenomenal.

Speaker 7:

I mean, this isn't so much digital, but the way that I fell in love with the brand was they have this feature where you can go online and you'll just look at whatever you like, the sizes you want, and add them to your wishlist and then, once you're ready, you can book an appointment with a store and you would just go in store and everything that you have on your wishlist they bring in and you can try it out, see what fits and then buy whatever you want and then walk out, and I've been loyal to Essence ever since. But I do have a qualm with AT&T, so that's where I'm going with that.

Speaker 7:

I recently cancelled my wifi and it was. I tried calling them first to initiate it and my god, I just hate the automated voicemail that is just going through and then telling me their hours of operation, or which, or, or which you know, you can actually go online and do this. Only the guess. I know I was online and I couldn't do it and so after five minutes of pressing through buttons and then eventually the AI comes and it's like how can I help you today? I'm like I want this.

Speaker 7:

Try to know, just talk as if you're talking to a real person and tell us what your problem is, but then it only focuses on like one key word.

Speaker 7:

I'm like yes I did say that that's not the point of what I'm trying to say. And then, after a minute of yelling at representative representative that's right I wanted to get to it. Uh, and then you know, we figure it out. They have to read me the whole terms and agreement policy and after a minute. I'm like yes, I agree and then they ask why I'm canceling, and I tell them oh, I'm not leaving, you guys, I'm just moving in with my friend and he has a tnt.

Speaker 7:

So we're still with the brand, don't worry. And then I get a follow-up email on why did you leave and do you want to renew. And then I get another phone call about you on why did you leave and do you want to renew. And then I get another phone call about you know, why did you leave us? And etc. I'm like I thought we already hashed this out and then now they're trying to sell me an iPad because there's a big deal on it.

Speaker 7:

So it's the resistance. Yeah, yeah, I have to respect that. So this leads me to the next question which you can answer.

Speaker 1:

So 60% of the respondents found that they love AI the most because of speed and convenience. So what is wrong about AI and where does it fall?

Speaker 7:

short. I love that it can direct me to general questions or maybe something that's on the website. I don't feel like the AI with a lot of companies is so integrated with their systems, with their own website. I mean, I don't know why their entire FAQ section isn't just embedded within the chat box when I ask it. It could just be smart and answer it.

Speaker 7:

I feel like it's very prompt- oriented and it only focuses on certain words, and, while I think there's great, I mean I use AI now instead of Google because I can just get a quick and immediate answer like wait, what did you mean by that word? Whereas a lot of the customer experience AI is very transactional. It's very okay, I'm going to look for this keyword and then I'm going to give them a list of the prompts, but I don't feel like there's a conversation happening, and so I end up wasting a lot of time just trying to configure it, trying to talk with it, and then eventually I'm like no, let me just talk to someone who can understand what I'm trying to get at.

Speaker 4:

I mean, all women in this room know how difficult for men's clothing sizing is and how varied it is between brands. So my favorite bit about AI when I first applied for ASOS and they stored your information about sizing in brands and you know, collecting the data from other people that bought use RANS and what cycle works for you, and it's taken me so many returns. But when it comes to me having a problem when I'm actually doing something, I really just want to speak to a person. I want to have a face like an active conversation, because I feel like you're more accountable when there's someone you're actually speaking to.

Speaker 5:

If the AI was good enough, would you feel comfortable if it felt like it was someone you were talking to?

Speaker 4:

Given the experience I've had so far, I don't think so. You know, my friends, like Joe, say we'd rather spend three hours trying to find a phone number than three hours talking to a chatbot, Just because you know, we're people and I want to feel passed about something. That's the level of empathy that we're not going to get from the chatbot.

Speaker 1:

I'm going to ask a nice question to say, because they say Gen Z are natural content creators and I know that you are amazing at that. Where I am like representative person, can you talk?

Speaker 6:

a little bit about what strategies you use when you're talking to a chatbot to get the information that you want.

Speaker 1:

I think when I communicate with chatbots in general, I try to make my question really simple, but I find that actually some brands respond with more substance than I expected. So that's something that I've been really enjoying. And actually building on top of that, I've noticed that some brands have started to program their chatbots to embody the brand voice too. They actually have personality and I feel like I'm part of the minority that doesn't really mind speaking to a chatbot.

Speaker 1:

In fact I prefer speaking to a chatbot over the phone just because I find that you can take a lot of wait times being on the phone, but then, using a chatbot, you can also multitask at the same time and things that you just need to get done it refines. You can get that done in a really, really quick way with the chatbot. I know when you buy beauty products, you're excellent at talking about what kind of skin you have, what you're looking for, and I feel like a lot of brands do understand that there needs to be chatbot and AI capability to process that information.

Speaker 1:

What's the time you have? What's your purchase history? Not only have all those silos and bits of information to synthesize, it. I haven't. The one thing I haven't really seen is our brands that efficiently synthesize all that information they're getting to it. They're pushing more products on the website, they're giving me more live animations more soon to the info that I send to them, but they're not really synthesizing it to the extent that I'm looking for.

Speaker 4:

I mean, I know I certainly agree with you, but in my mind, when I've got a chatbot running, I can't really do that much. I'm sitting at my desk and I'm on hold until the business comes to the surface. I'm doing my emails, I'm kind of getting on with work. But with a chatbot you can't close a browser, which I find really frustrating. And I see your point where I have a lot of friends who do like a chatbot and then I have a lot of friends who you know we all spend three hours trying to find a phone number and we'll keep it stored to Canadian, but I've never really hacked the putting the right information, I think, to use a chatbot.

Speaker 7:

I think it really depends on the chatbot. So when you were saying you know about how you can just go into messages and you talk with the business profile. That's how I deal with Delta.

Speaker 3:

And so they have a lot of you know here are the list of answers or prompts that you can select.

Speaker 7:

So there's not a lot of configuration there, but I think with a lot of retail chatbots it's more, you know, as if you're talking to someone in a new language, so you're just using the very keywords, the big picture, whereas like kind of like ChatGPT, it's so easy to kind of work with and to start seeing where it's going wrong, where it's what it's understanding, what it's not.

Speaker 1:

So let's stay on airlines for a minute, because Nick and I both have airline stories. Mine is a negative Delta story. So I bought a business class ticket. They switched planes, they moved me to the back of the plane, I could not reach anyone, they would not move me, they would not refund my money. And so I bought a United business class ticket to LA and the seats were nicer and it was more comfortable and the service was better and I realized that I did not need to be a platinum Delta member and I think you have a similar experience.

Speaker 5:

Yeah, I think that it comes down to everything. I hear you guys saying we're in a room of technologists and it's on all of us to make sure we break down the data silos so we can provide the best experience possible. I know John from the id will be talking about this tomorrow in light bulb may over here from gfl. He's broken down tons of cycles to give a good experience my experience with you I'm not going to say who it's from well, I think you already felt the public, sure, okay, well, um, they're not real customers.

Speaker 5:

So I was going to New York for Fashion Week and I had an eight-hour meeting the next morning and I took an 11 pm flight on a Sunday night because I wanted to spend as much time as I could with my family. And when I was checking in I said, oh, you can upgrade for $1,100 for Polaris, and now our company doesn't pay for coast to coast business class and, yeah, I'm in my own pocket. But I wanted to do it because I wanted to sleep, so that way I could be at cold hands and add value in those eight hours. So I bought it. I hopped on the flight 11 pm at night. There's a yellow sticker on the armrest says inoperable. Case number number 950, whatever it may be. So the air door it didn't work. This seat did not work Inoperable. So they knew it was broken because there's a little sticker there saying it's broken. But they still sold it.

Speaker 5:

So sales and marketing didn't know that this was broken. I called in as support. I'm a 1K owner and so I have my own line of phone. I called in to support and they said sorry, we can't refund you. I said well, I bought something that you guys didn't fulfill, so I don't understand why you should have to pay for it. We'll give you a $400 credit. I'm like no, no, and then so like no, no. And then it's like, negotiating, negotiating. I finally got a $600 credit, not my $1,100.

Speaker 5:

And she accidentally changed my flight while she was talking to me and I was on a panel at the CEO dinner at Fashion Week after Martha Stewart, and my flight was changed to that morning before the piano. So they even changed. It was a complete disaster. I thought someone hacked into my account. Um, anyhow, it's that service, not wrong, but if they, if you can just have one platform like michael meyer and jf, they've done this, and so is john mcguire, where, if every organization has data cycles and it's up to all of us to make sure there's a seamless connection of the knowledge because, as we know, all consumers just want to be known, treated well or they're quick to switch, even someone like Stacy, who's super loyal to Delta forever, not anymore.

Speaker 1:

I'm gonna ask two more questions and I'm gonna make you you can answer them at the same time so that we can open it up for Q&A.

Speaker 6:

Would you buy an international plane ticket using a jet pod? Yes or no?

Speaker 1:

Well, that was one of the answers. No, okay, me and you talked about how the other one had all of your personal information, how helpful that was. What kind of personal information are you willing to share with the brand to get the best experience?

Speaker 4:

I think, given all the cookies that I've realized I can bring to most of my brands they have everything. There's nothing new that I'm sharing with them If it's going to get me where I want to be and make my experience as smooth as possible. I try and drop the information as safe to share, but I have no problem sharing my data through the store.

Speaker 7:

I have absolutely no problem sharing any data. I mean obviously not the confidential stuff, but that wouldn't really affect my customer experience. But we're online, everything's out there anyway, so I don't think I get to pick and choose at this point.

Speaker 1:

I agree. I think, just looking, just based off of my behavior online, I think all these kids know everything about me that they need to know and I honestly feel okay sharing an adjun, say it's like a weekend, and I can tell them I have like combo skin and that my skin has yellow undertones, like I'm totally okay with that, as long as they take that information and, I think, synthesize it in a creative way that actually produces pleasant and surprising results, then I think that's taking it to the next level.

Speaker 1:

Okay, now the fun part. We're going to open it up for about 10 minutes of questions. So does anyone have a cup? Kelly, right in the front, I missed your mic. Go to the other side, maribel hi, yeah.

Speaker 2:

Okay, this might be easy and I know that this is actually a pretty long thing, but there's a lot of perspective about who you think you are. What do you think is the greatest misconception for you? When people are looking at you as a generation Things they say you are, that you are, I don't know. Looking at you as a generation Things they say you are that you are not, I don't know.

Speaker 1:

Thank, you, you can go first, I think. I think people who are in Gen Z will assume that Gen Z will often have a lot of different priorities at the top of mind when you're purchasing something when in reality, I think for the vast majority of us, it's price.

Speaker 1:

I think that's the one thing that a lot of people will underestimate, because the truth is, a lot of us don't have different jobs yet. We're still in college, we're still getting our education or we're getting our career just started. We don't have, I think, the capital and the finances yet to make huge purchases, but so we're always conscious of the prices on everything, and even further if we're getting the value that we seek before optimized.

Speaker 3:

And say you've said in the past that price troubles sustainability.

Speaker 1:

often I think so. Unfortunately, that's also very contrary to what people think. Yeah, I don't want to think that free shipping makes a massive difference.

Speaker 4:

The amount of time I will collate you with friends who qualify for free shipping. It's a cost, it's quite a large cost that you keep trying to do online after a while.

Speaker 7:

I just think there's a very big stereotype about who we are and what we are. We care about sustainability, we care about purpose and action, but in reality, just like any other generation, just like any other stereotypes, there are exceptions and I feel like at least I'm from Jordan a lot of my friends and even friends that I made in college.

Speaker 7:

we have grown up with our parents who raised us, so we very much share the same sentiments, the same values that they are, and so, while Gen Z is you know all of these things yeah, but there's a difference between the actual whole generation, between people who are taking their opinions online, and so I think that people kind of forget that there's still a section that are very similar to millennials and to boomers, and that Gen Z aren't just that one stereotype that we are made out of.

Speaker 1:

There's one more misrepresentation that fans spoke about TikTok vs Instagram. How do you use TikTok vs Instagram? Have you shopped on TikTok shops? I actually have. Once, though, and it's I purchased a set of gym shorts for $10. And actually, to this day, I think it's one of my best athlete gym shorts.

Speaker 8:

I've had those shorts all damn time.

Speaker 1:

They're so good. I've had them for 10 months. I'm like this is value at its best for me. But I think what's really interesting to see is that Instagram has kind of become Pinterest in some way to get inspiration. But TikTok has actually evolved to become a search engine.

Speaker 1:

So the hottest new clothes that you see on the website, you can search it up on TikTok search and then you'll probably see a couple videos, if not hundreds of people wearing the same piece of clothing in different sizes, in different colors, and I think that can become really useful for Gen Z, because we want to see. Oh, if this person has the same body type and the same height as me, I want them to see what it looks like before I make this purchase myself, especially if I'm getting into a lot.

Speaker 8:

Okay, one kind of a question. It's interesting. I have a daughter who is a Gen Z and I'm listening to you guys doing retail shopping and clothing and everything. She shops at thrift stores, both online and just because she likes the style and she's a support carrier. She makes plenty of money but she has no interest in. She's a chapsnake.

Speaker 2:

Do you guys do that? I'm just curious, are you going?

Speaker 8:

to be shopping at Bristol. Where's the stores?

Speaker 4:

I'd love to try to shop. I mean, as you can see, like in London, there isn't really one light option for a lot of them. I think the places I get to you know is kind of the vintage stores, but they're incredibly overp. So I'm going to do thrifting, I guess, instead of trying to shop in classes.

Speaker 8:

Yeah, that's not very good customer service. Question for you is how valuable do you think video and screen sharing is, especially when you're dealing with customer service, like when you're talking to friends, you're on FaceTime or whatever your chosen app is? Especially, talk about Gimby. Is it helpful if a store has video where your consultant can see you and make some recommendations?

Speaker 7:

I find it baffling that a lot of customer service doesn't have a feature where I can send a picture I'm like. Well, here's a screenshot. That would just summarize this whole conversation. I personally don't think I'll ever use a video chat unless my customer rep wants to see that this shirt is actually too small on you. But I think the picture one is a very gone unnoticed.

Speaker 8:

I think, other reasons besides clothing. You're installing or you're putting together a table from Ikea or something and you have it run into a problem. Do you guys ever want that?

Speaker 4:

I think it'd be really useful, when I'm downloading software or trying to boot something on my computer, to have the option to have someone talk me through the process, not only so I know how to do it myself, but so I've got some guidance. It's kind of hard to explain to someone what you're seeing on the screen and then sit down to translate instructions for what we should be doing.

Speaker 7:

Yeah, I will say really like Uber. Now, when I came to Barcelona, I'm like where the hell do I find the pick-up spot?

Speaker 3:

And they have a step-by-step here's a picture they circled where the sign is and how to find it.

Speaker 7:

I'm like that was really helpful.

Speaker 5:

So there's a new generation coming along, gen A, and are you?

Speaker 9:

seeing them in your social world and how do you feel like they're different from you Maybe siblings, maybe other people you're getting in touch with? How are they now different?

Speaker 1:

I have a younger brother almost four years younger than me. That's kind of ordering the line between Gen Alpha and Gen Z, and I think as an entire generation I'm from Gen Alpha. I think they're even more traditionally Native than Gen Z, to the point where I think we need to be a little bit more aware of what consequences that will have on their mental health. Because I'm seeing, especially with Sephora and Glow Recipe, one of the brands, charlotte Tilbury yeah, the 10-year-olds I'm like they're 10-year-olds using retinol. You don't need retinol Put on some sunscreen and go play in the playground.

Speaker 1:

That's what I did with my friends at the time. And then when you're put on that digital space from such a young age that can genuinely destroy your mental health in such a terrible way, Is this even Sure? You might learn how to use technology from a much younger age, but is it going to be? Are the consequences long term worth the short-term benefits?

Speaker 2:

just a quick question um, how important is this fraud or anything about like, especially like another research effort on tikt, tiktok or Instagram like, which might not be the right thing to work with? How hard is that when you're doing the steps around your time in the experience? Is that something you can pay attention to?

Speaker 7:

So that was my hesitation with the tea hoop now that we've had some fun with that.

Speaker 7:

I will say I'm very gullible. I once had to order something and then after three I call them like hey, you know, I ordered just like lighter that uses lasers or whatever I'm going. We sell fridges and TVs Like. That's not our website, I think, at least for a lot of those new things, where it's like if it's too good to be true, then we are very suspicious and we're like do I really want to give my Apple my information? You know, can I pay with like something? And we're like do I really want to give my Apple my information? Can I pay with something that they can't just draw money off of? So I think that's a really important consideration with these companies that are really trying to gain their customers, and they're like no, it is good to be true, because we just want to acquire you as a customer.

Speaker 4:

I've had that one with subscription sponsors where I sign up for something and I go, oh, this is great, it's very useful, try to cancel it and six months later I'm still being charged something. So I think after that experience I'm way more fortunate about what I'll sign up to online, because it's really difficult to get that information back once it's out there.

Speaker 1:

I think for myself. No, no, you can answer. Oh, okay, I think this is a really interesting space where TikTok can have such a positive side to it, because a lot of the items that I see are in-sole on TikTok shop. There are people commenting in the videos and people wearing these items, specifying what the material is like. Does it look like the picture, how does it fit, does it run larger or smaller? You can see all these real-time, unbiased comments that are brutally honest about the product. That can easily tell you oh, is this real, is this worth making a purchase or is it a lot of BS? You know that is much more dependable because we know that a lot of these people commenting, making these comments in the comments section, are not getting paid by these companies to get a deposit or review somewhere.

Speaker 9:

Question in the back Is there an experience that you've had, like customer experience that you've had that you're like how this not going to fix you?

Speaker 4:

I mean very much my shipping problem desire. But not only can I not call zara, I couldn't call that shipping company either. That should come in her chat bot option or whatever. And I know how difficult the difference is. I work in manufacturing, I see it day to day. But the fact that there still doesn't seem to be a way to collate all this information and have a seamless process from purchase to delivery, including that shipment process, I think is still baffling to me.

Speaker 1:

Also, the quantitative part shows the same thing that there's a lot of frustration looking for a phone number. I think Gen Z really wants to be able to reach a human if they need to.

Speaker 7:

The fact that Uber and Lyft got rid of any ways to call chat or whatever is bonkers and it's driving me crazy, and if there was a third option to not use them, I would definitely never use them again. Unfortunately, there are some things that we can be picky about and some things we're over-forced Right.

Speaker 6:

So you may have answered the question partly, but if you could elaborate on that a little bit. So how important is social media for you when it comes to brand engagement and how frequently do you use it and how do you use it? So, basically, if you could talk a bit about social media as part of your brand engagement, that would be great.

Speaker 7:

So I think it's a tall-head trade-off between the brand reputation and between the social media interactions. Faye talked about Instagram being like Pinterest. For me, I think Instagram is like kind of going to their website. It's all aesthetic, the general thing. And then TikTok is where you get to know the brand, culture, the company. But dueling goes out in this. But that's just a great example of how you get to know the company. You get to see all these other things and what their values are, what they're going for. But something like Goyard their whole brand is based on not being online for being exclusive. So I think it depends on the brand reputation and image and what we can expect from it.

Speaker 1:

And Faye, I know you often talk about using Instagram to find out about the brand culture and discovering on TikTok. Can you talk a little bit? About that.

Speaker 1:

Sure, I think, at least on Instagram, just looking at a brand's profile really quickly can give you a really good idea on what the brand identity of a certain company is like, if an identity, if a coherent identity, exists as well.

Speaker 1:

But also, I think, by studying what they post on Instagram, by seeing okay, are you what sort of sustainability initiatives do you have and are you being vocal about it?

Speaker 1:

Or are you being vocal about certain activist movements, like Gen Z, I think, especially, is always looking to almost I wouldn't say scrutinize, but to criticize the media on our TikToks, to criticize a brand if they're not doing something right. And I think on TikTok is where you can see, as Ash said, the brand and the live culture and everything. And it gives TikTok, these brands, a really cool space to kind of showcase their individuality and that can also bring in customers. And TikTok, just as a search engine and as a social media platform in general, is honestly amazing for product discovery, because on that platform, like I mentioned before, you can see how certain products work on people, how they turn around, how they move around in clothing or show their makeup in light. There's so many different functions that you can find on social media platforms and you just can't find traditionally, say, in store displays or email websites. So I think you can do them very well.

Speaker 3:

I would love to hear about consequences from the three of you.

Speaker 9:

What's the consequence of negative experience? Is it immediate? Is it walking with your wallet? Is it going on to social? Is it like? I'm Gen X? I hold a grudge. I have held a grudge against an airline for 20 years. I will tell everyone about it, I've written articles about it, I've been on podcasts about this airline and my seething burning hatred for this one. Like so my generation. We're all in the grudge, right. We're all in the grudge Right, like so. When it comes to you guys, though, because if price is a leading driver for a lot of your friends, for some, you know price can wipe away, grudge away real fast.

Speaker 9:

So what's the consequence of negative experience for you?

Speaker 1:

guys, and I'm just edged by some genetics too, and I wrote my first negative review ever. Um, talk about that with your reviews, because I know you're getting on looking at reviews as well.

Speaker 4:

The more money I spend on products, the more the more ceiling range, the more ceiling range. So I now will never, ever fly with Samba again, Because I spent 14 hours flying for a weekend wedding and it took me two days to try and get a refund and I still didn't get a refund because I kept getting paid from one department to another to this, to that. So you know, for a flight and that kind of money, I expect better customer service. I mean Zara. I think I'd go back to in-store because it's a kind of way up between how much I pay and definitely what I think the service should be. And the more money I'm spending, the bigger the cost of that is if they're not fulfilling that kind of need or promise.

Speaker 9:

But if I'm the brand, if'm luke kwanzaa or if I'm czar, for that matter, is there something that I could be or should be looking for other than you're having a horrible 48 hours? I totally get that, I totally understand that one, but, like it's because it sounds like you know a negative review if that's coming in hot, is there any way to turn that around? Because I think one of the things that we tend to look at from an experience point of view is, yes, bad things are bound to happen, but how do we turn that around and is there an opportunity to?

Speaker 4:

I think it's a response time like the quicker you respond to turnaround, bad as you, the better your experience is and you feel acknowledged. But after two days and you feel heartened, don't feel like I'm taking anything seriously. So you step away.

Speaker 7:

I think that's an important thing is that sometimes I know that my problem can't be fixed, but I just want to be heard. I want to know that someone sat there and was like you know what we screwed up. I am so sorry that there's nothing that we can do, but I'm like at least you acknowledge that. But to your point, I have a running mental list of one day, if I become internet famous, I am going to run your day through the mud for what you did. So we all need a grudge too.

Speaker 9:

Hold on that rage. It's served our generation well I would all be a grudge too.

Speaker 1:

But I think, on the positive side, if there can be a solution, if there can be a remedy, it feels really not good if that remedy is given generously, like if I feel like I'm actually, like they put in extra effort, put in the extra mile to make me feel like I'm being taken care of, and yet they really are feeling horrible for, like, the things that went wrong on the way. Yeah, that they genuinely care, that can keep me from completely abandoning the brand and turning blinds into it and never getting, never engaging with brand again. I think we can do one more question before cocktails, if anyone has one more.

Speaker 6:

So you talked about the role of influencers. Is that something?

Speaker 1:

my generation was not getting back. I think influencers can be. I worked this past summer for L'Oreal on a team that dealt with influencer marketing, so I understand that the dollars that a lot of brands put into influencers is to get as much reach and as much knowledge about the brand as possible. But I think on the flip side, a lot of Gen Z notice when that marketing is coming from influencers Because, say, on TikTok, you can see that it's more like an advertisement or like a brand partner or something, and we're like you just got paid to say all this. I need someone that's human and that's going to give me the truth about something. The main thing is I can't trust influencers because I know that what you're saying is getting backed by brand influencers.

Speaker 7:

And there are people that are blindly following certain influencers. I'm talking more about me and my friends. We use influencers as brand awareness. So, oh, I've never heard of this brand before, but then let me see what they say about it. And then eventually, our purchasing decision is based on ration and, yes, we agree, we think this is a great product. We've read the reviews, we did our research, but influencers help get that brand awareness out there.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, I agree. I think my sister is a gen A about eight years apart, and the way she responds to influencers is really different to the way my friends do, because she will see something and go, oh, I have a client, whereas all my friends are like you know, research, what's it about? What are they charging? You know where's it from? Give me background about what you're selling me.

Speaker 5:

Well, thank you. Yeah, I don't have my, but do you see why we did this study? Thank you. You can see why we did this study. It's so fascinating. There's not a right or wrong answer, and it really just comes down to having the technology to enable folks like this, or us exes, to have the best experience possible. I think we all just want to be known. We don't want to be taken care of Again. I keep going back to the Ivy Collegiate. His story is amazing. We'll hear it tomorrow, but that's why we did this study. We're gonna be issuing the question list.

Speaker 5:

I think one afternoon next week, Next week so. But, we're gonna get a copy of it, yeah, so tune in for that, thank you. Thank you for your interest. Thank you.