What's Up with Tech?
Tech Transformation with Evan Kirstel: A podcast exploring the latest trends and innovations in the tech industry, and how businesses can leverage them for growth, diving into the world of B2B, discussing strategies, trends, and sharing insights from industry leaders!
With over three decades in telecom and IT, I've mastered the art of transforming social media into a dynamic platform for audience engagement, community building, and establishing thought leadership. My approach isn't about personal brand promotion but about delivering educational and informative content to cultivate a sustainable, long-term business presence. I am the leading content creator in areas like Enterprise AI, UCaaS, CPaaS, CCaaS, Cloud, Telecom, 5G and more!
What's Up with Tech?
How a Small Team Rewrote Mobile for Billions
Interested in being a guest? Email us at admin@evankirstel.com
Your phone’s most magical moments—messages turning blue, a watch pairing in seconds, an eSIM activating from Settings, a text sent from the middle of nowhere—don’t happen by accident. They ride on a quiet protocol called entitlements, and today we sit down with Emir Aboulhosn, CEO of NetLync to unpack how this invisible layer is being rebuilt for speed, security, and scale.
We start with Emir’s path from MVNO experiments to collaborating with Apple and Google on Apple SIM, eSIM orchestration, and high‑stakes deployments that touch billions of devices. From there, we demystify entitlements in plain English: device authentication against carrier backends; instant provisioning for iMessage, FaceTime, VoLTE/VoWiFi; seamless Apple Watch and Wear pairing; and eSIM downloads without QR codes or third‑party apps. If you’ve ever landed and saw your message go green, you’ve felt this system at work.
We explore what’s next: cross‑platform RCS that finally bridges iOS and Android with secure, rich messaging; number verification without SMS that kills clunky one‑time codes and lets apps verify a phone instantly; and Android satellite messaging that closes coverage gaps with carrier‑satellite integrations. Emir shares why cloud‑native entitlements are the unlock for small and large operators alike, how AI is now diagnosing misconfigurations to speed launches, and why day‑one support for new devices must become the rule. Along the way, we talk UX, fraud, quality of service, and the real‑world path to 5G Advanced, wearables, and network slicing that feels effortless to the user.
If you care about seamless connectivity, privacy‑first authentication, and messaging that just works, you’ll walk away with a clearer map of the future—and who’s building it. Subscribe, share this episode with a friend who still copies OTP codes, and leave a review telling us which feature you want to “just work” everywhere.
Interviews with Tech Leaders and insights on the latest emerging technology trends.
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Hey everybody, uh mobile services are being reinvented right under our noses. And uh today we have a company that's really uh driving innovation uh sort of quietly behind the scenes, uh, behind Apple and Google and Samsung and the companies we all know, um, from you know things like eSIM innovation to satellite messaging and more. Uh looking forward to diving in here with Amir. Amir, how are you?
SPEAKER_01:I'm great, Evan. How are you?
SPEAKER_00:Doing well, thanks. Uh maybe introduce yourself and your journey to Netlink and what is Netlink all about?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, uh Amir Abelhosen, uh CEO and co-founder for uh Netlink Technologies. We're actually based out of Dublin, Ireland. Um we specialize, we do basically entitlements uh or entitlement services, and we can get into that, explain that shortly. But we've uh been quite the disruptor in that space. Um myself personally, I have a history of being a uh a disruptor. This is my uh this is my fourth startup uh that I've gotten going. So my journey started um in uh I would say early 2000, right around the dot-com crash. So my timing was impeccable. Uh I did uh peer-to-peer file sharing for Windows. Um and um fortunately that company was acquired uh um early on, and and that was my real uh foray really into getting much deeper into tech. Uh following that, I um following the acquisition, I was you know with with a group for uh six uh six and a half years. I got the startup itch all over again, and for some reason I got bit by the telco bug. So I decided to jump into telco. I started my uh I started in NVNO. I partnered with T-Mobile. Uh we did a uh global, we did a sorry, we did a cross-border roaming service for Canadians going across the border. A lot of innovation around that, uh, basically because we had to solve our own problems essentially. Uh and from there, uh we started collaborating with Apple on the Apple SIM, which was the first real consumer eSIM application for iPad. Uh and then I, and then from there we, you know, again, problem solving, uh started, uh did the first, one of the first, if not the first, in the eSIM orchestration. That's back in 2015, uh, where eSIM was quite still quite difficult to deploy uh and uh you know quite complex. So we had solved some significant problems around that. So out of that came another company called Ateno Networks that was uh spun out of it. Um and then fast forward 2017, both Rome Mobility and Ateno Networks were um uh individually acquired. Uh Rome Mobility went to TwoCows, which was the owner of Ting at the time, Ting NVNO. And then the um uh and then uh Ateno went to Idenia, which is one of the uh largest uh SIM menu, uh SIM vendors, uh ESIM vendors, and um uh also in largest in digital ID, actually, globally, passports, credit cards, uh not just digital ID, but all types of ID as well, too, and much more. Very big, big French company, uh to say the least. And there I spent three years running their digital connectivity domain. So everything under ESIM. Um once that once that stint was over, I you know, I was gonna take a bit of time off. That didn't last. Uh, I was presented with a really great opportunity to uh, you know, uh create a new uh create a new startup. And uh we found a big problem in device entitlements, particularly around the uh adoption of eSIM, but more importantly around the making sure that uh iPhone users around the world all have the same experience. The same thing applies for Android users as well, and then from there Netlink was born. So uh spent three years building it, and here we are today in the market with uh with some really good success out of the gate.
SPEAKER_00:Amazing. What a journey. Fascinating. And you've been sort of quietly working behind the scenes with tech giants, Apple, Google, Samsung. What's it like as a smaller company startup uh developing services that end up in the hands of billions of people? Um that's a really good question.
SPEAKER_01:Uh I try not to think about it because you know it's one of those situations that you realize, oh, wait a minute. You it's uh when you think, when you stop and think about it, you realize, wait a minute, this is a uh uh, you know, it gets can be it can can be intimidating. Um I fortunately had an uh working with Apple, uh collaborating with them, um I started it back in 2013 um on Apple SIM. So I was already kind of uh I had good experience. And then when Idemia acquired my company, being uh one of the largest uh you know uh eSIM providers and uh particularly sim providers around the world as well, too. Um uh obviously I started collaborating even closer with the larger OEMs. Now it was behind a very big organization. I think it was about 15,000 employees that was the size of that organization. Um but um uh to be honest with you, I mean, one of the things that they one of the things that we we've done and we've demonstrated really well is we we react incredibly fast. Um we're not we're not held, we, we, we don't, uh we don't get business politics for us is we're kind of blind or it's even deaf to it in some ways. So who we upset and who we disrupt is not our concern, to be honest with you. The idea there is we're trying to move the technology forward consistently. Um, and we're trying to make it accessible to everybody on top of it. Now, along the way, we've solved problems for some of the really big operators and carriers, and we're really happy with that as well, too. And we're loving the way it's received. But you know, one of the things that you one of the things I think that's uh that's appreciated with us as an organization working with these giants is just our our pace of innovation and our ability to zig and zag. I know it's a cliche, right? But we really can can turn on a dime when we need to. Um, or we or we see something that uh is a feature, and all of a sudden, you know, the team is prototyping it within a matter of days, and sometimes it's the same afternoon after we get off a call. So we're we're really fortunate in that respect, and they appreciate that. And so we we just we continue to maintain that uh uh that um that reputation and we continue to build on it going forward. Fantastic dynamic.
SPEAKER_00:Um so you mentioned something called entitlements as a service for those not deep in telecom tech. Um how would you explain that value prop in plain English?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, uh it's a good question because uh anytime I ask somebody asks my wife, what does your husband do? She has struggles to answer that as well, too, right? Um so um and forget about the kids. The kids have absolutely no idea what I do for work. Uh they just know I work with these big guys. The the um uh entitleness is it's a it's a really uh it's a technology that's been around for over a decade, actually. It's essentially it's a protocol, um, is the best way to describe it. That was created by Apple. And the uh the main purpose of it was it drives authentication on the devices. So, you know, we you know, now with security requirements continually growing and growing and growing. What what its really primary function under the gate is that it says, okay, I can prove who Evan is. It it goes to the operator, does essentially what they call a phone number challenge, and going inside the operator systems, it says, okay, can you prove to me this is this device? And against the back end systems of the carrier, going back into their HLRs and sometimes to their what they call their triple A, which is what used, you know, used to manage or authenticate the data connection as well, it can prove who Evan is, right? And then once it does that authentication and it does that that handshake, then all of a sudden you can now uh enable your uh FaceTime and iMessage. So if you've ever noticed that when you get off a plane or you're going from one place to another and you're sending immediately, you want to send a text message to a loved one and say, I've arrived, and the message goes through as a text message. It's green, right? That means that the entitlement server on the carrier side has not been able to authenticate you yet. So it hasn't gone over to switch over to to iMessage. And so um uh and so sometimes that process is a little bit delayed, sometimes it's it's instant, it should be instant. Uh, and then all of a sudden, once you've established that authentication, you've now got secure protocols in terms of sending messages back and forth, and now you've got security around your iCloud services. The same thing applies with Google, right? With Android as well, too. It works almost identical to the two of them. Now, once that authentication is established, it now it goes, it the the technology has evolved over the last decade, where the um the OEMs have essentially said, okay, now when we want to provision uh various services, was like at the time was uh voiced over LTE or voiced over Wi-Fi, or we want to pair an Apple Watch, or we want to pair Google Where to your device, or pair an iPad. Now, because we know that we have these devices have been authenticated, now we can securely enable them as well, too, at the same time. But it also does something really cool. It goes, it checks with the carrier, it says, hey, is this device actually authorized to provision the service? And is it qualified to do it? Is it on the right network? Is it, does it have the right specifications? So it now what it does is it's gone one step further and now it's managing quality of service in the background between the devices to say, hey, we can we can ensure that this device has been with this operator, with this device, is now not only is it authenticated, we can now properly provision the service. And based on that success of that technology, um, what they've done is they've simply layered on additional services on the back end, what we call use cases. So obviously the big first one, big the really biggest use case, which was mandatory, was Apple Watch, right? So Apple Watch, in order to kind of connect them or what we call daisy chain devices together, it um it handles that uh uh that piece of it. But also with it came entitlement. Sorry, it came ESIM, right? So now you can handle direct download into eSIM into the device. And then and then the next phase was now we can transfer the, uh, go from physical SIM to eSIM or or we can go ESIM to ESIM, right? Move the move the ESIM over when you're doing the device migration. So um, and with Google's example, they've now provisioning satellite services off of it as well, too. So those use cases are continuing to grow at a very rapid rate with it. Um, and what it really does ultimately at the end of the day now, and in um uh, and you know, you've seen some OEM presentations that are out there, it ensures that the customer has the best experience on the device. It's quickly authenticated, services are provisioned and they work right out of the box, right out of the gate. There's no configuring, there's no entering anything else. Everything's all built natively into the operating system, and it just it's a completely elegant smooth service. So you the customer, you gotta end up, you end up with a happier customer on the network and a happier custom customer from a device perspective as well.
SPEAKER_00:Love it. Yes. Um many things to unlock there. Uh eSIM has been a game changer for me personally, and so many of us early adopters have probably four or five different eSIMs at the moment. Um, but you've you've done a lot to kind of um rework how eSIMs are transferred, deployed, getting away from clunky QR codes. Um talk to us about your work there.
SPEAKER_01:Well, I mean, for me, eSIM for me, uh the first time I really came across eSIM, and it was fundamentally the same, was in 2013. So for me, when people talk about it being exciting and new, it's for me, it's a decade, uh decade old. That took a really long time to come to market. Primarily, there was a lot of resistance from the operators at the time. Um, a lot of missed uh uh unfounded fears ultimately. That proved not to be true, fortunately. That's the good news. Um, the way that we've been involved, but myself, so for me, ESIM, and also more importantly, I've also been involved on all aspects of ESIM right up to the manufacturing of it as well, too. When I was my time during with Idemia, we were providing the back-end infrastructure, what they call the SMDP plus, where right up to the generating the profile, downloading the profile into a DP, and then delivering it into the device as well too, for the network operator. So I've I've been I've touched every single piece of it. Um, with regards to entitlements, um, what Apple has done and Google so elegantly is that within your operating, within within iOS, within Android directly, the functionality exists to simply go in there and automatically deliver the eSIM without any customer uh involvement whatsoever. In fact, or and if the customer wants directly out of settings and actually order a new eSIM as well, too, and simply access it. This is important because you're not relying on a third-party app. I gotta download the app, I gotta set up an account, I gotta do this, I gotta do like all these following steps. Everything is completely out of the box. And this is what customers expect today. They, when they open the package and they turn on the device, they just want it to work, right? Um, we're all becoming trained in that way. And that's why UX and UI and you know, user experiences are are probably as fundamental to the success of the product as the technology behind it. It doesn't matter how good the camera is, it doesn't matter how good the fast processor is or how much memory you have, if the experience is poor, it comes across as a poor product, right? So what we did was we needed to make sure that as Apple, particularly Apple and Google, are starting to roll out eSIM only devices. So now we got iPhone Air, which is now the first global eSIM device from Apple. Um I'm I'm a owner of one, I love it. Um, and uh now you've got the Google Pixel as well, too, at the same time. We uh what they need is to make sure that these devices are distributed around the world in and work properly. You need we needed to democratize entitlements. And entitlements traditionally has been something that has been available to tier one operators, uh, have been traditionally expensive, difficult to upgrade, difficult to deploy. So the in 2021, we were given an opportunity to basically completely rewrite entitlements from the from literally a blank piece of paper, just from the ground up. So I had already been working with entitlements in my previous gig with IDamia through my acquisition at Watano. We did the first cloud deployment of entitlements, and that was really interesting and it kind of went was was a different approach. But there was a lot of things that were fundamentally still broken. How does a carrier integrate it? How do they upgrade it? How do they add new use cases, especially all these use cases piling on? And then especially the fact that the eSIM experience should be the same for every single user around the world, no matter where they are, right? It just works out of the box. And so what we needed to do was make it incredibly accessible. And so today, my smallest customer has 500 subscribers in a in a remote region area, and my largest one is you know well into the seven, seven or eight, yeah, seven digit, seven digits millions of uh overall. So we're again democratizing this technology to make sure it's accessible to everybody. And uh in the process, we've kind of disrupted the market, which was our which was our intention, I'm not gonna lie. Yeah. Fantastic.
SPEAKER_00:Um, the other big leap forward this past year has been RCS and level communication between iOS and Android has been a pain point for for so many years for so many. So, how close are we now to truly seamless messaging?
SPEAKER_01:Uh I think we're there. I think it's a matter of so that so there is so we're we're there in the sense that Apple and and Google have established a protocol for what they call cross-RCS, right? Uh um and uh so and and it works. And it works great. Um, obviously, you know, I think that both parties, and I'll say something a bit controversial, they're kind of like, you know, the fact that they were separated really provided an opportunity for WhatsApp to kind of run away with it, right, from a kind of basis. Um, I'm I'm happy they've done it. Um it and to be honest with you, there's there's massive potential sitting inside of it, particularly with um the security and the delivery of services around it. I know that, you know, Google on their side have been doing some really creative stuff with um uh the business, business, uh, business side of RCS, right? With you know, delivering um boarding passes and tickets and everything else as well, too. And so now you've got this, you know, uh, and now if you want to send them off to somebody, you can send them off to you know to an iMessage user uh and it comes across seamlessly. Nothing is lost in that process. So the protocols are there. Um, the deployment is straightforward. You need entitlements. The carrier cannot deploy without entitlements. Again, it comes down to the I was mentioning earlier on that the authentication of security. So now we've authenticated the iMessage user, we've authenticated the RCS, uh, what we call you know, Google messaging user. So on the back end of it with entitlements, it does, you know, again, more security checks and authentication. So uh that's all in place. And so we have been uh we started doing some early work with Google um on doing cross-RCS for smaller operators to make sure it gets accessible out there. And we've we've we've we've got some really good examples out there of customers that are doing that, and we've got a significant pipeline that are coming online. Not as fast as I had hoped they would, but they're definitely picking up with every single quarter. Um, but uh I think we're there. I think I think in a few years that problem will be completely non-existent, to be honest with you. And it has to be. By 2028, everybody should have entitlements. So there should be no excuse for it at that point anymore, right?
SPEAKER_00:Wow, that what a what a what a time that will be. Um, the other thing I see you're involved with here is helping Google launch number verification without SMS. That sounds interesting. Why does that matter? And who who benefits exactly?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, big I'm a big fan of that product as well, too. So we again we we we worked with Google on that one. Um we uh uh we were able to present it with Google at um in Barcelona uh last year. And uh, or sorry, this year. Oh, I gotta get my dates right. So yeah, we we present that with with Google. We did we did the kind of early work on some supportive Muslim prototyping and we're able to get a demo in place for Barcelona to watch it work. Now, what's really cool about that is, and this goes back to the original problem with authenticating devices, um, SMS was very much relied on for device authentication. It would send you the message, it would check in. And there were, I can't go into detail, but there were some you know checks in there that it in some cases uh you get like these background SMS messages that would verify the device. There's a lot of big problems with SMS, besides the fact that look, it's it's kind of a dated technology, if you ask me, right? Um, in terms of where its origin is and where it kind of started, if you know the whole entire history around it. Um, and yes, it's been instrumental in in where we are in the world of telco. But it's kind of time to move on from it. And in that process, especially in the last probably say last five years, it's been ripe, right with I mean with uh with fraud, right? Uh carriers being overcharged, device manufacturing being overcharged, developers being overcharged, the pricing is kind of all over the map, uh, security gaps, right? You've heard some really bad stories regarding Bitcoin and everything else like that. It's time to move on from SMS, right? Uh for authentication. So Google's come up with phone number verification. And the beauty of it is that the app developer now has the ability to basically leverage entitlements to go in there to do an instant check on the device from the app itself, completely seamless, without entering a phone number, and it will do the check, and then all of a sudden it will authenticate that device, right? So no more entering your phone number, waiting for the text message to come in, whether it doesn't come in, multiple, getting a code and all that kind of stuff. Right within the app, you can now embed the ability to verify a device or verify the phone number directly with the um directly from the app into the carrier via entitlements, and it's completely seamless and instant. And this is now available to the to the app developer, right? This is no longer just an exclusive OEM piece that's used to authenticate the device itself. It's now doing it, it's now there to authenticate the user, and the app developer has access to this technology. Completely elegant, completely seamless, very, very secure on top of it. And it's just, it's really kind of the new the new face forward. And the great thing is we've seen really massive enthusiasm, and as Google's continue to rolling it out, rolling it out. We're working with them on that. It is uh something I'm super excited about, right? Because it's again, it's an evolution, solves a problem, and it's you know one another step forward where where we should be going.
SPEAKER_00:Fantastic opportunity, win-win for everyone involved. Let's talk satellites. You've been involved in enabling Android satellite messaging. Uh, that's cool. And what do you see next for satellite? It's uh top of mind for everyone these days. So exciting what's happening in mobile.
SPEAKER_01:Well, I mean, Evan, if you asked me that your handheld device, your iPhone or your Android device would have global connectivity no matter no matter where you are in the world, you know. Um a few years ago, I would have told, wow, that's that's a that's a nice dream, right? Um I mean, I I actually remember holding satellite phones or using a satellite phone. So it was that big one with the antenna and everything else with it, or using as, you know, as a side a pager, you know, with your background, right? Using a pager that was satellite enabled as well, too, and passing messages back and forth. So um, you know, carriers now have the opportunity to uh provide their customers, even in the world of IoT, but particularly let's say let's just focus on consumer for now, really another level of safety and security, and just that that that ability to stay connected everywhere in the world. And you're hearing a lot of great stories about satellites saving lives, right? More importantly. Obviously, we're hearing about it from kind of the experience from Starlink and all the other kind of stuff, where you know, internet connectivity, high-speed connectivity is now widely available. But the fact that I can travel anywhere in the world and I can pretty much take my device and you know be able to text, eventually you'll you'll be able to do much more with it. I won't go into detail, but the ability that I can stay connected with anyone uh uh anywhere in the world, no matter how remote the region is, is is absolutely remarkable. So carriers now have that ability to basically add on that service. We've seen T-Mobile do it with Starlink. They've got basically they've closed the entire coverage gap. Uh, with again going back to entitlements. What we're doing is we're taking that particular use case and we're enabling it for the carrier against the satellite provider. And then, furthermore, ensuring that the quality of service is there, that it works properly, provisions properly, and it's very secure at the same time. So very excited about that technology with the with Android. And obviously, we're just at the kind of the starting phase of it. I think that's going to grow into obviously more data services, more voice, eventually maybe video. Who knows where it goes on that basis? But again, the fact that your your Android or your iPhone now has satellite connectivity is is pretty pretty remarkable from a tech standpoint, right?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's uh science fiction realized for sure. Yeah. We'll have communicators next. Um, you know, so much happening in our industry. 5G Advanced is going to unlock so many new features, functionality. Uh, we've got wearables that are getting very real. Glasses in particular. We've all heard uh rumors about Apple's glasses that are in the works. What kind of new frontiers, devices, services are you kind of most excited about?
SPEAKER_01:Um, you know, the the one thing definitely is um I'm I'm very excited from a telco perspective, uh, just the level of uh everything being connected um securely and seamlessly. And so you're you know, having your own personal ecosystem of connected devices, right? With reliable connectivity is really quite remarkable. I mean, I have this essentially, you know, at my home where I can be anywhere and I've basically got you know 360 coverage of my my home, um, my you know, alarm system just goes on and on, all of it back into my device going forward. Um, and now those and those form factors are going to eventually change. We've seen what Meta has done. Uh, we you know, we hear the rumors that are out there, um, you know, and the fact that you know the form factors are seeing big updates. I mean, honestly, the iPhone Air is a pretty cool device because it is incredibly thin, it is incredibly lightweight. Um, so we know that those form factors are going to significantly change. We've seen the the what the wearables uh Apple Watch continually evolve. I mean, in fact, the the new Ultra has sunlight connectivity in it too. I mean, your your wrist has sunlight connectivity. I know it's the same thing for me too, right? Yeah, amazing. I know. So I think for me, the the ability to just to get the benefit of having devices that are not only connected but also up to date as well, too, features that are delivered on demand, uh, functionality that's delivered. And with, you know, you talk about 5G and the slicing aspect of it, where I'm not just simply restricted to one lane. I can you know jump onto a premium lane and say, hey, I want something that has really high speed and low latency for whatever reason, whether I'm gaming on the road or anything else on that perspective. All of those things have now been completely uh um wide open. The the question comes down to, you know, can the operator adapt fast enough? I do think that the the industry, the, the, the two worlds are are really out of sync, right? The device manufacturers are moving and definitely at a much faster pace, especially when you add in the element of you know, AI into it, which we're you know, we're even embedding AI into entitlements. Um, we're not doing it for the sake of just being trendy. We're utilizing it in in really remarkable ways as well, too. But you've got the OEMs move and device manufacturers around all range moving at just lightning speed. The problem is the carriers are still have these networks that they've got to continually update and upgrade and everything else. And so the the cloud-based infrastructure solves a very, very big problem around that. And we're really trying to work that shift. We went cloud-based because for us, it was the only logical way to go. It's it gives you that speed, it gives you that security, it gives you that that flexibility and diversity you need for different different problem statements as well. So the um uh so for so for me, it's uh the the question is can can we get the operators, can we again continue to democratize, democratize all of these infrastructure elements and move them into a pace where as new devices roll out and they're announced, you're not waiting a year or two for your carrier to support them. They're available on day one, right? To me, that's that's kind of the problem statement that we're continuing to solve, and that's kind of the evolution that we're going down. But that's that's where I'm kind of uh uh pushing things towards, right? Wonderful. But yeah, it's really for a techie, it's a really fun time right now for us.
SPEAKER_00:Great time. Yeah. And it's only gonna get better. I've I've just booked my travel to Mobile World Congress Barcelona, the you know, we're the annual Mecca to the center of all things mobile. I'm sure I'll see you there. Can you give us a peek into your near future? Anything you're excited about, or roadmap, or other things you're going to announce?
SPEAKER_01:I I can give some some previews on it. Um, we did do some kind of like a lightweight AI assisted tools. Uh we're just about to announce a kind of a next wave phase in that. Um, that part is really exciting. Um, it's it's uh, and I'm saying this because every time we preview it to a customer, we're like, wait a minute, I didn't know you could do that, right? In fact, someone's said, you shouldn't be doing that because you're making me, you're you're showing me the problems on my network, which I now you're creating more problems for me to solve, right? But we're at least we're telling them how to solve them, right? So um we're our next story into entitlements is sorry, into AI is is just literally around the corner. Um, I'm hoping in the next um uh this week or next week we should be uh, you know, the information should be out there on that one. Um there are new use cases, obviously scheduled to roll out with new functionality and new features going forward. Um that's one of the things that uh we're going to be probably Barcelona will be big for us as uh as well. Um we were last time we were able to really we were able to preview phone number verification with Google, which we're really excited about. This time there will be a um uh a new uh um uh some more use cases that will be uh previewed and demoed. Like we don't just previewed, not talked about, but actually we'll be able to demo them while we're there. So we're really we're really hyped about that one as well. Um and um I think the um the ability that uh by Barcelona, you know, um every carrier should either have be supporting ESIM or anyone that's kind of in the corners somewhere that is ish is probably uh hopefully months away from deployment uh for supporting ESIM as well, too, um, which really has uh a lot of potential in it to kind of go even further. Some stuff that we're kind of experimenting with as well in terms of where where ESIM could ultimately go. I mean, I've been living and breathing it for 12 years now, right? So I'm kind of excited to get it get ahead of it and see where else we can take it.
SPEAKER_00:So fantastic. Well, well, the tour de force of mobile technology really appreciate your insights and time. And I'll see you at Mobile World Congress. I'm looking forward to it. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, we'll we'll we'll we'll be there to demo for you. So you're next as well. Fantastic. And thanks everyone for sharing this podcast. Also, check out our TV show, techimpact.tv, down Bloomberg and Fox Business. Thanks, everyone. Thanks for being here. Thanks, Evan. Bye bye.