Bridging the Wealth Gap: Brian Li on Teaching Financial Literacy

In this episode of The Teacher’s Forum, David welcomes back Brian Li, a pioneering educator in financial literacy whose first appearance remains the podcast’s most-downloaded episode. Brian shares his journey since that conversation (02:43), offering an update on his expanding work promoting financial education in schools and communities across the country (04:07).

He discusses why the hunger for financial knowledge feels more urgent than ever (05:53), the insights gained from speaking at the Joy Raising Experience summit in Chicago (06:47), and the importance of finding joy and community in financial learning (08:42). The conversation explores a new generation of young investors and the risks of “get-rich-quick” culture (11:03), the cultural barriers that make talking about money difficult (12:42), and how investing can serve as a great equalizer for building generational wealth (15:11).

Brian also unpacks the challenge of delayed gratification in long-term investing (17:24), the mindset shift required to plan for inheritance and generational wealth (21:18), and how his financial literacy and entrepreneurship curriculum at Providence Day School is preparing students for real-world success (26:22). Together, he and David challenge the idea that homeownership is the only path to wealth (35:17) and discuss how educators can reform the system from within by integrating financial literacy into their teaching (41:52).

The episode closes with Brian sharing how listeners can access his free financial-literacy resources for teachers, parents, and student-athletes (45:34).

Whether you’re an educator, parent, or community leader, this conversation offers practical tools — and a powerful reminder — that financial literacy is social justice in action.

To contact Brian Li visit his web site at blifinancecoach.com or email him at blifinancecoach@gmail.com

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Transcript

David Harris: Hello everyone and welcome to the Teachers Forum, a podcast where educators from all walks of life and backgrounds share their stories and voices. I'm really excited about today's episode because we have returning, a returning guest, my friend and colleague, Brian Lee. Brian was actually the very first guest on this podcast back in season one, episode one, when I was just getting started, really appreciated him coming on. And that episode has stayed at the top.

David Harris: ever since. It's still the most downloaded show and people keep coming back to it because the topic I believe continues to resonate with them. So I'm thrilled to have Brian back on the show. He doesn't need much of an introduction, but I'll give him a brief one. He's a fellow teacher with me here at Providence Day School here in Charlotte, North Carolina. And since his first appearance, he's been traveling around the

David Harris: Every time I look up he's at some school. I don't know I'm waiting for him to tell me he's going to Timbuktu or South Africa or something in the near future He's been leading the way at our school With a program that helps students build real financial literacy and that's an impressive program that he started and we'll dive into both of these Areas today, but Brian welcome back to the teachers forum and thank you for joining me today

Brian Li: David, thank you so much for having me back. can't believe it's been a couple of years already. Congrats to you and all your success. Just what a great platform you've built here. So proud of you. It's awesome. It's an honor to be here. Thank you so much for having me back.

David Harris: No, thank you. Thank you. So it's been two, like we said, it's been two years since we were first on the show. So bring us up to date. we talk all the time, but I want the audience to know what you've been working on in the area of financial literacy for educators, particularly educators of color and students as well. So I'll let you, have the floor. And again, you can talk about where you've been speaking, what you've been doing at PD, whatever you feel you'd like to.

Brian Li: Yeah, terrific. It's been a warm wind last couple of years, David. So it's been a blessing, been able to travel around the country, like you said, in New York, Boston, Atlanta, Nashville, Tennessee. There's a lot of work to be done.

Brian Li: And I think that's the main thing I've taken away from all this. The work is, it's been amazing though. There's so many teachers and educators out there that are ready to learn about financial literacy. And so it's been a great honor working with some amazing faculty and staff from across the nation.

Brian Li: You know, here in Charlotte, we've been busy also getting involved in a lot of incredible nonprofit organizations here like, gosh, Do Greater Charlotte, Charlotte is Creative, Commonwealth Charlotte, Generation We. So it's just amazing, amazing work that people are doing around town also. you know, my heart's always in the classroom and it's been a great couple of years teaching middle school finance, personal finance, and the upper school.

Brian Li: finance classes taken off the the populator you know the feedback we're getting from the kids has been amazing so we're really grateful for the the support from from the admin and the parents in the and the students of course are doing a great job so definitely been keeping me busy but but it's been great work though

David Harris: Okay, great. Brian, as we go on, the mic that you have, if you can keep that closer to you, because yeah, because when you speak into it, I can really hear you much better. all right. yeah, that's much, much better. Okay, yeah. And yeah, you can hold it or only when you're talking or whatever. Okay, let's get back to it. You know, as you were talking, I was thinking about, and I know we've kind of talked about it before,

Brian Li: Keep it close, okay.

Brian Li: Okay, is this better right here? I'll hold it. Okay. I will hold it here.

David Harris: why let's say either the class or teachers, what is it, even let's say two years later that still has you speaking all over about these topics? Where is it coming from?

Brian Li: Yeah, David, that's a great question. And I think the feedback and I think the hunger for this knowledge is grown. It is becoming a, I think it's a topic that we just can't avoid anymore. Like I think people, think faculty, I think students, especially in these very trying economic times are going, man, we have got to learn about financial literacy. Like it's not taught in schools.

David Harris: Yeah, Zach.

Brian Li: There's so much misinformation out there. There's a lot of barriers. The systemic barriers are still out there, almost more than ever. The education piece is becoming so important. And I think people are realizing, hey, we've got to get our hands on this knowledge. so that is really fueled.

Brian Li: That's fueled me for the last couple years. And so I'm doing whatever I can to get guides out there, online resources, speaking opportunities. So wherever I can spread the message, we definitely want to ride this momentum where people are ready and hungry for this information.

David Harris: Great, and I know you recently spoke at the University Chicago Laboratory Schools where I actually taught for many years. And it was, I think it was called the Summit Joy Raising Experience. And I know you shared the stage with a couple of people who I found kind of interesting, Jasmine Rashid. I think she works in socially responsible investing and Edward Amos, an educator and advocate for equity. So what was that experience like? What did you take away? Who was there?

David Harris: What were people, what were some of the questions and things people were talking about during that time? Cause it sounded really interesting. I know I think it was in June. Am I correct?

Brian Li: That is correct. Dave, that was an incredible experience. Ran by Tasha McCord-Poe. She was absolutely outstanding. And when you got a Pulitzer Prize winning speaker leading off that event, it was incredible. And so I think that that event was real special to me for a number of reasons.

Brian Li: I think sharing the stage with Jasmine and Edward was fantastic. really, for me, it was a cool moment because it was like, I'm not alone in this work. There's some incredible people advocating for financial literacy. On another side of it, this could be a whole episode in itself, is with POCC being canceled, it was really cool to see

Brian Li: educators of color creating our own spaces now in its void. And Tesha did an incredible job. The event was just first class all the way, well attended. The vibe was very reminiscent of kind of it reminds me of conversation you and I have had in the past that had an old school POCC vibe to it, more intimate. So it was really cool to kind of see this gathering.

Brian Li: of passionate educators of color coming together. And it was reaffirming for me to see that, these kind of conferences, these kind of events can be very successful in the light of the POCC cancellation, which has been difficult for so many of us.

David Harris: What were some of the takeaways though from the conference or things that were shared that you think our audience would benefit from hearing?

Brian Li: You know, I think the takeaway was these are incredibly trying times. this is conversation you and I have had, you know, for the last couple of years, every day. And the dismantling of so many of, you know, of our civil rights, it's just, it's overwhelming. But the need for us to gather together.

David Harris: Yeah, every day. Every day.

Brian Li: find joy kind of the theme of the whole conference in our daily work and in our fellowship and the need for financial literacy, the urgency has to be there, right? And I think it's up to educators, our leaders to really push forth the need for financial literacy. So it was an honor to be invited there by Tasha, who's just very well regarded across the nation for her incredible work. But the urgency, right? I think especially

David Harris: Mm-hmm.

Brian Li: in these trying times where, you I think, you know, a couple years ago when I was at, I believe it was the San Antonio POCC when I did my first workshop, it was like, man, we've got to get, hey, know, educators of color, we've got to learn about financial literacy. You fast forward a couple years and.

David Harris: Mm-hmm.

Brian Li: I don't it's crazy to even say this, but the situations are even worse now. The times are even more challenging, which is hard to imagine. So the urgency is tenfold now. It is no longer an option to learn about financial literacy. It is mandatory. We all as a community must take advantage of this system, which has historically and systemically

David Harris: Mm-hmm.

Brian Li: kept so many people of color out, the time is now. And I think that's the big takeaway. The time is now to get educated on this.

David Harris: And you bring out a really important point because what we're seeing

David Harris: is that even our jobs as educators are not necessarily secure. You've got teachers losing their jobs for all kinds of political reasons. You've got people in other walks of life we see losing their job, particularly in the government. And so like you said, knowing some, having some idea of finances, how to prepare for something like that is probably really, really important. Let me ask you this, Brian, two years later, and of course you speak, I'd like to also hear.

David Harris: experience at Columbia, but so what are some of the things you're saying now that might be the same or slightly different than they were two years to, to educators?

Brian Li: You know, I was such a good question, David, and I was looking at the news and kind of seeing what's changed really in the last couple of years. You know, there's good news and bad news. I was just reading a report and this study came out sometime last year that the fastest growing group of investors is young black Americans. And that's awesome. That's fantastic. There's alongside that study, they were finding that Hispanic

Brian Li: So our black and brown communities are getting very interested in investing. the growth rate was very high last year, which is fantastic. So I think on the bright side right there is, hey, our people of color in this country are getting interested in investing. We're hearing about it. seeing it. We know that financial literacy is important. I think the part where on other side of that study is the majority is still of that growth.

Brian Li: is in get rich quick crypto coins, risky high risk investing. So the wealth gap has still grown David. You know, I wish I had better news there. The racial wealth gap continues to grow despite this exponential growth in investing from people of color. And there's no question about it. It's about education. You know, it's about financial literacy, educating people on

David Harris: you

David Harris: Mm-hmm.

Brian Li: disciplined investing, diversified investing, low cost investing, resources that are readily available to us. So we want to build off that momentum. so times have changed. People are getting interested in it. that education piece is still lacking. it's something that I think it's going to be a long battle, David. that's something, again, that's what I'm here for is to get other schools.

Brian Li: involved. I know I can't do this by myself. We've got to get other schools, independent schools, private schools, people in government. We've got to push financial literacy for our youth. If we're ever going to close that racial wealth gap, investing in financial literacy is going to be a huge component of that. And that's something I really believe in.

David Harris: Do you think, what do you think is holding folks back the most? Cause I know I oftentimes will say, and I may have said this on first time we talk, know, sex, money, race are three of the things people do not want to talk about. Even in relationships, I think it's the undoing as you probably know of many a relationship it's over money and finances. Yeah.

Brian Li: 100%. Yeah. Yeah. And I really do think, David, I think it's almost a systemic problem. It's an educational problem. It's almost for me, it's like, they don't want us to know about this. That's a take that I think is, it's a serious case. I think white supremacy, think closing that wealth gap, keeping us

David Harris: Ahem.

Brian Li: as community uneducated is a powerful thing. And I think that's, it's, I think this keeping us distracted, not talking about money, not educating us, us as a whole, you know, marginalized people of color, our groups, not educated about money is just a, it's a systemic barrier that we have to overcome. And I think, you know, these are the thoughts that really keep me up at night, right?

David Harris: Mm-hmm.

Brian Li: And I want to say I was looking up some stats, David, in preparation for Chicago. And what I told the audience there was, you know, America's about 40 % minority right now. And that's a scary thought if all of us start building generational wealth, right? If we start generating generational wealth through investing and getting our finances in order, that's a

Brian Li: That's a powerful force and I think that's a force that scares. It's a hot take, I think the system of white supremacy is that that is a. That's a four. That's a title way that I don't think they're ready for, and I think keeping us distracted and uneducated. Is is one of their top priorities.

David Harris: Right, and I think some of us, so many of us, I just think of, you know, even myself starting out. You don't know much, right? It's, you know, put your savings in, you know, put the money in a savings account. It's buying a home, and all of those things make sense, but even, and we've talked about this, and I think you do some of this in your class, even when we talk particularly, let's say, black folk.

David Harris: or even brown folk buying homes has not necessarily always given us the return on the investment. You know, if you're lucky enough to be like, uh, we've talked to in Charlotte and bought a home 10, 11 years ago, you're in sitting pretty. I don't care where you black, brown, Spanish, whatever you are, but so many communities, even in parts of Charlotte, the return on investment in the home is not there. And so then there's a question I would ask you, Brian is like, okay,

Brian Li: You

David Harris: So what do I do if I'm not going to get a 20 % increase in my home in 30 years, right? Or you, you know, whenever, you know, what do I do? How do I go about it?

Brian Li: Yeah, and I think one of things that I've been just absolutely preaching the last couple years is that long-term disciplined investing averaging 10 % return. This is not a secret anymore. And I want people to really hear that piece is that long-term diversified low-cost investing is not complicated.

David Harris: Hmm.

Brian Li: It is for everybody. I think there's so many barriers that we put ourselves up also, right? Like, it's not for us or I didn't learn this when I was younger. Like I said earlier, the time is now. And I say that all the time in my workshops. It's for everybody. Long-term disciplined investing is for everybody. Generational wealth is for everybody. And so, David, despite all the barriers out there that so many of us have had to face for...

David Harris: Right.

Brian Li: decades and generations. The time now to invest has never been better. And I'm holding up my phone right now like we can open up brokerage accounts in five minutes, 10 minutes. We can open up Roth IRAs in the matter of seconds now. We can open up accounts for our children in 10 minutes. The access to it has never been better. It has never been faster.

David Harris: Mm-hmm.

Brian Li: And for me, I really do mean this. I really believe that the market, the stock market is the equalizer. It's the way we can level the playing field. And I've said this in a couple of my workshops. When I log on to E-Trade, if I log on to Fidelity, I'm an account number. There are no barriers there. I'm going to buy the S &P 500. I'm going to dollar cost average, put a little bit, no matter what you can.

Brian Li: $10 a month, $20 a month, $100 a month. The S &P has averaged 10 % for the last 100 years. And if we do that, we can, and this is the powerful part, right? We can be the generation that starts that and sets up generation of wealth for our children. And you're looking at seven figures, six figures within a lifetime. And that's the power of this, right? And so that I think really

Brian Li: getting past that fear of investing, I think there's a lot of loss aversion. I think a lot of communities, especially, and rightfully so, a lot of marginalized communities who have been hit by predatory banks, predatory financial systems, those are things that we've got to get past that. We've got to educate ourselves and develop these long-term habits.

Brian Li: for saving for the future and setting the following generations up for success.

David Harris: Yeah, you you talk about the systemic things that I just think of. Listen, listening to a couple of African American radio stations here in Charlotte. And I am telling you, Brian, there is always an ad about folks getting out of tax. mean, know, call 100, 800 Optima Tax Relief because clearly, you know, I'm not thinking, and I'm thinking, I'm like, wow, what is going?

Brian Li: Yeah.

David Harris: on here that they're targeting people. So I think the tax part of it is one. And then there's just the debt relief, right? Not necessarily taxes, but you'll see these ads over and over and over again for getting out of debt, right? So what, what's going on?

Brian Li: Mm-hmm.

David Harris: Even do people not understand that you got to pay your taxes every year is you know, is it just ignorance about it? Because of course when you listen to those things, they act like you just give them a call and your 30, $40,000 tax bill is going to go away. You and I both know that's not going to happen, but it just strikes me when I listen to those particular stations and the type of ads that they're running. I'm sure that doesn't surprise you.

Brian Li: Not at all, David. And I think what a great comment because that's going to kind of tie into what we were talking about earlier. The kind of the new systemic barriers, right? I'm going say that again. These new, these new, these ads, our focus, our attention, that's what they're attacking now because

David Harris: Hmm.

David Harris: Right, I see.

Brian Li: They can't stop us. So, in general, I they can't stop us from investing. The stock market is very interesting, David. think sometimes we got it. Maybe sometime down the road, we combine our classes because this was a great conversation I had with some of my students. Can they stop us from investing? Can they stop people of color from investing? And you're talking about trillions of dollars globally.

Brian Li: So that's something that they can't really stop. They can't say like, this community, we're not going to allow them to open up an investment account or we won't allow this group to open. So that's beyond their capabilities from a systemic standpoint of prejudice and other racial barriers. They can't stop me from opening up an E-Trade account and so forth. But what they can do is distract us with these ads and consumerism.

David Harris: Mm-hmm.

Brian Li: What I was looking at recently was this article and I can't believe it was, I can't remember if it was from Wall Street Journal or Bloomberg, but it was saying the buying power of people of color has hit trillions. Our buying power, the black community, the Hispanic, Latin community, the Asian community, indigenous people, Native American communities, trillions of dollars now, David. And what was the article about?

Brian Li: The article was how businesses need to tap into this. They're not looking to educate us. They're seeing us as spenders. We are spenders in corporate America's eyes. So I'm not surprised at all that our debt continues to be very high. Average credit card debt right now in America is still around $7,000. We're getting into tax trouble. We're still massively

Brian Li: in debt David, right? And I'm not surprised at all because what are we surrounding ourselves with? Ads, consumerism, buy this, buy that, focusing on our image instead of generational wealth. And that's the system right now. think that's really holding people back and you had asked before kind of what's holding us back. Yeah, we're not, know, what's fun? What's exciting? Not long-term investing. That's not fun. That's not sexy. You know, that's not

David Harris: Right.

Brian Li: That's not a now thing, that's a later problem. And that's something, you hit it right on the head, that's something I'm definitely running into talking to younger teachers that I run into at workshops.

David Harris: Yeah, so they want the investment seems, and I think too for younger teachers, we'll talk about older teachers like myself in a minute, but I think for a lot of younger people, and I was actually at a very interesting conversation over Labor Day, a lot of families, some of the folks in the family were listening. I just think it is the idea of being in your 60s close to retirement seems so,

David Harris: Right. even for me closer now to retirement, it finally is sinking in, right? But you're in your twenties, thirties, forties, even early fifties. But by that time you should be thinking about it. But it's, I think so far off. How do you get through to younger people? Look, these are some of the steps you need to have. Right.

Brian Li: Yeah, it-

David Harris: something is simple and I know you'll probably agree with this. Something as simple as if you're going to get a credit card, get a credit card that's going to work for you. I've got one and every time I use it, I can get miles on the airplane, you know, it just, but that took me, it took us a long time to really get to the point of knowing some of that stuff. And some of the secrets, like you said, the stuff is right out there, right? it gets something that's going to work for you, but you know, how do you talk? How do you, what do you say to younger teachers who see that such far away? And then of course,

Brian Li: That's it, that's it.

David Harris: Brian, let's not forget that, and I'm gonna let you talk. You're better at this, but I did wanna point it out. For so many folks of color, immigrant folks or whatever, you're worried about your parents and how you're gonna take care of them. And then there might be a niece or nephew that needs the money to go to college and you're helping that. So you may make a decent salary, but there are other things pulling at you.

David Harris: that whereas you might want to invest that money, but you got to give it to grandma so she can get in that nursing, you know, all that kind of stuff that goes on.

Brian Li: I tell you, you're 100 % accurate and really summed up the challenges of teaching finance. Definitely as I've been doing this now for a couple of years, really kind of ties back to our conversation before how things changed since we've last spoken. And that's been one of the biggest challenges, David. I can't stress that enough. I kid you not, this is the conversation I had with my seniors last Friday.

Brian Li: You know, they're tired, they're 17, 18. I ain't worried about this, Mr. Lee, right? Young teachers similarly, right? Like, okay, I'll think that was a great workshop, B. Lee. We'll get started on it. And that's definitely been the challenge. I think over the workshops that I've done over the last couple of years, David, this is what I tell my students. I need you all to listen because this is what I've noticed. This is what I've noticed.

David Harris: Hmm. Right.

David Harris: Mm-hmm.

Brian Li: I do these workshops, doesn't matter what state I'm in, doesn't matter what city I'm in. You look at my audience, which teachers are locked in? The 40 year old teachers, the 50 year old teachers, pen and paper in hand, right? And they're wonderful teachers, but they're young. I'll do this later. You can feel it. It's kind of like the seniors. They're like, I'll get to it later, Billy. Great presentation, Brian. We'll get to it later.

Brian Li: And so everything that we talked about before, I'm going to tie back to what we were talking about before. Investing in the stock market, dollar cost averaging, which just means we're putting in money in consistently. We're not trying to gamble and time the market and guess when it's a good time to buy or when it's a good time to sell. We just keep putting it in. We buy a diversified index fund or an ETF and we can talk about that later. Right. And sit back.

Brian Li: and just keep doing that for a couple years and you're going to have a couple million dollars. Well, what's the catch to that? You know, my middle school students and I'll give credit to my middle school students. Mr. Lee, if that's so easy, why doesn't everyone do it? And the audience members who are there who are 40 and 50 are, man, I'm all for this. So what's the trade off? What's difficult about that? It takes time. And the 40 and 50 year old teachers who are

Brian Li: just now to getting started investing. It's never too late. I always want to say it's never too late, but they don't have time on their side. So the power of this, the trade-off is what's the catch, which everyone should ask when they're talking about investing, what's the catch, is that this method of long-term steady investing takes time. And so I always try to stress with all of my heart, everything I can muster up to young people, young investors, young people in general who have the gift of all gifts, it's time.

Brian Li: The time is now. You must start now because it is far more challenging when you're 40 and 50 and you have not started investing yet. It can still be done. I certainly don't want to discourage any older viewers out there from getting serious about their retirement. It's just at that point, sacrifices will have to be made. You have to invest more to kind of catch up that ground. But if you're 20, if you're in your early 20s, 30s, I mean, you got to start.

Brian Li: no matter the amount and that's the really hard part David. I was just talking to a teacher who has to help parents, faculty of color actually, families in a different country, they've got to send some money back and that's a hard spot. I mean being in that sandwich generation, I wish I had a great answer David, that is tough. It is, you still have to take care of yourself and I know that's a almost, it's a hard thing for a lot of us to do right and

David Harris: Yeah.

Brian Li: You've got to take care of yourself, even if it's just $50 a month, $100 a month, $20 a month. Set something aside. Make sure you're participating in your workplace retirement. But that is a hard thing to do. And that balancing act, you know, I wish I had an easy answer, but it is hard telling them that I know you got to send money back home to mom and dad. Make sure you are still setting yourself up for financial freedom as you get older.

David Harris: Right, that's probably really good advice. And I think too, we talked about it, I think on the first episode, you're getting young people coming out saddled with debt from student loans, right? I mean, that's a serious issue, right? And it's setting you up for failure. this is a kind of way to transition to, I'm anxious to know about the program you set up at Providence Day.

David Harris: and how you're working perhaps with other educators and other institutions to do the same. So what does that program look at PD? Who are you teaching? What are you teaching? What are some takeaways that educators and just parents, anybody that's listening might be able to impart upon younger.

Brian Li: that's a great question, David. And thanks for asking. We've been really excited and I'm very proud of what we're building at Providence Day. know, shout out to the parents and the administration for really letting me kind of run with this. And so my middle school class, I think we're in our sixth year teaching this now. They're incredible. I mean, we're talking about, yeah, we're talking about credit cards, credit scores, budgeting, savings accounts, checking accounts, all that stuff.

Brian Li: But by the time they leave that class in eighth grade, they've got full knowledge of asset allocation, investment objectives. What's the difference between the traditional and Roth IRA? The importance of taking a 401k match, right? We go into HSAs, 529s, they are very capable. And I think that's the takeaway I would say, David, is for anyone listening, parents or educators,

Brian Li: start asking your school, hey, what are your thoughts on getting a literacy class up and running? These kids can 1 million percent handle it. That's the takeaway. The question I get all the time, David, is, wow, they understand that? They can handle it? 100%. You're talking about students who are doing the quadratic formula and Pythagorean theorem. They can find the area of a trapezoid. They can understand what a Roth IRA is.

Brian Li: There's no question about it. They're about to drive a car soon. They can handle what a match is. So I think we've got to get rid of that notion that they can't handle it. These young people are hungry for this. So that's what I would recommend. Encourage your school system. Encourage your administrators, your teachers to push for this financial literacy. It's too important to ignore.

Brian Li: You know, I know we're going to talk about education later, David, but I think we've got to incorporate this. I'm all for biology, chemistry, calculus, but we must incorporate financial literacy into the curriculum. You know, on top of that, the high school class, the upper school class that I'm teaching, we call it intro to financial analytics, takes a step further. We're really diving in, doing a deep dive into asset classes, asset allocation.

David Harris: Mm-hmm.

Brian Li: risk tolerance, we're diving into equities, fixed income, cash, private equity, alternative investing, really doing a deep dive on what makes stock ticks, what makes companies tick. We'll get into some intro accounting, looking at cash flow statements, income sheets and balance statements and stuff like that. So it's a cool class. And again, without having to just sit here and rattle off all these buzzwords, what I wanted to let viewers take away from that is,

Brian Li: You're talking about 15 year old, 16 year old, 17 year old students that can 100 % handle it. And on top of that, the message above that is it's never too late to learn. If these kids can handle it, we can, adults across the nation, can all handle this. Finance is for everybody. It's not just for finance bros and or math people. It's for everybody. That's my takeaway. Not trying to burden our viewers, our listeners with a bunch of financial jargon that my kids are doing.

Brian Li: But my message to y'all is, man, it's out there. It's out there. It's accessible for everybody. That's my takeaway.

David Harris: Right. And what I find interesting, and one day we probably should get together cause I do a lot of, of the macro. It's just amazing how kids. And so I'll oftentimes bring you up. You all took Mr. Leeds class. You know what the stock market is, right? understanding what capital, just the basics of what capitalism is versus socialism versus democratic socialism. We need to be hitting this all. You just be surprised. And I'm sure you find it too, when kids begin.

Brian Li: Mm-hmm.

David Harris: how many students the idea of capitalism seems so, but yet they're living in a capitalist society and yet don't understand how it's working on a macro level or on a micro level at all. They just said, I but you do understand all that stuff you go see in the store just didn't appear there. Some of them understand supply and demand and all of that, but it's just really fascinating.

Brian Li: Mm-hmm.

David Harris: I think it's so important to understand both the macro and the micro and I love what you're doing because I think it really, it helps me as I'm talking, okay, this is capitalism. And I mentioned the Shanghai Stock Exchange and they have a sense of what that actually means. It's just not words. And I think the more we can educate kids on this is so very, very important because they just don't know. Some of them just kind of like go through life.

Brian Li: Right.

David Harris: and not really take that in. So I'm glad that you're doing it. In middle school, what's the class called?

Brian Li: enjoy the personal finance.

David Harris: Intro to personal finance and that's for seventh and eighth graders. All right. And then after that there's, can take the high school class. I thought there was something else or is it just those two?

Brian Li: Yes, yes sir.

Brian Li: That.

Brian Li: It is those two for right now and it's exciting at Providence Day. Right now we've just released, we're debuting our entrepreneurial degree, our degree in entrepreneurial studies. they have a variety of, know, literally what you just talking about, David, how do I start a business? Some great offerings in middle school and upper school, some entrepreneurship classes coming out, some design and entrepreneurship classes available for the students who are, again, I think maybe

David Harris: Right, yes, that can't, right, yes.

Brian Li: who weren't passionate about traditional academics, right? And this gives them a new outlet to follow maybe a new passion that's not from a traditional academic sense. So I'm really excited about that. It's like you said, we're all consumers. We gotta know how the system works. We gotta play the game. We could sit, and I think that's one of the things, one of the students asked me about was like, there's, you know, is.

David Harris: Mm-hmm.

Brian Li: Is this right or you know all these different investment rules are these ways to maximize our taxes? Hey, these are the rules of the game that we've got to learn how to play and I think just like you said we are consumers We've got to know how it works

David Harris: and how to take advantage of it. I think another thing too, Brian, and I like what you were saying, it's also a mindset.

Brian Li: Mm-hmm.

David Harris: the idea of building generational wealth and leaving your children something has to be something that you really kind of consciously think about. I know in my home, we've been thinking about it and are determined. I am determined, we are determined to leave our children something. I don't care, Brian, if it's $10,000 each. I don't care what it is.

Brian Li: 100%.

David Harris: or want to leave them something, it's very interesting. My spouse was saying, I was like, if you die, I'm gonna move, right? If something happened to you, I'm gonna move. And the comment was, make sure you give the kids their inheritance, right? But that's a shift in thinking.

David Harris: I think and I'm not saying anything about our parents, your parents, my parents, grandparents and people. They didn't have much. It was just trying to survive, right? That's all they were trying to do, but it's a shift in mindset.

Brian Li: It is absolutely that shift in mindset. think that's been the biggest shift for me starting these financial programs. think a lot of people who don't know me will go, they'll joke and be like, man, Billy, you're getting all this investing stuff you've been doing. are you chasing that paper and getting that money? It's not about the money. And it's not. I think unless you have that background, unless you know what it's like to be a

David Harris: Mm-mm.

Brian Li: a person of color or from a marginalized group in this country, it's easy to say, like, he's just going for the money or man, this is, you know, it's about the money, it's about the money, it's about the money. It's not, it's about freedom. And unless, unless you sit in those shoes, right, and know.

David Harris: Hmm.

Brian Li: You know, and I don't mind sharing this with my viewers, I've got two little kids, I've got two sons, one with special needs. It's about financial freedom. This goes beyond money, this goes beyond cars, this goes beyond houses. This is not what it's about, it is about freedom, financial freedom.

Brian Li: to live my life and make sure my family is supported long after I'm gone. And once that mindset changed, David, just like you said, I'm leaving here with something. And my family will be provided. And when you have that as your mission, boy, everything changes. And when you start learning about these tools, learning and studying and understanding how the system works.

David Harris: Right.

Brian Li: It just takes a whole new lens. And you're talking to a C student from college. Academics did not always come easy to me. But man, I tell you, when it's talking about my family, and so many of us are in that spot, right? We work hard, we do the right things. Man, how are we going to leave our family something behind? And that's the power of learning about this, the financial literacy game. And I think that's the core of what we do in my classes, in my workshops.

Brian Li: I think I find it so, for me, I can put my head down at night and sleep. And I want that freedom, I want that sense of confidence for everybody because in these trying times, it's a scary world out there and we've got to be ready for it. We've got to be able to leave our family with something behind that they can build off of.

David Harris: Mm-hmm.

David Harris: Let me ask you this traditionally in many communities owning a business, owning a home, let's say, let's concentrate on the home. It has been the traditional way of building wealth. What is your take on that? Because I've heard, can't think of the guy's name. He's on Netflix, a South Asian guy talks a lot about this and his, you know who I'm talking, I can't remember his name. Yes. Yes.

Brian Li:

Brian Li: Ramiseti, I hope I'm pronouncing that right, but a great book, good book. I like a lot of what he says. Some things, like all people, disagree and disagree here and there, but overall, a great message overall.

David Harris: Right.

David Harris: Right. He was saying he didn't want to buy a house. He liked the idea of being able to move when he wanted to not being tied down and he didn't see it as the end all. I'm just interesting on your take because I think, uh, you know, in many communities, black communities too, where the home ownership is still much lower than the home ownership for white folk or even Hispanic or Asians. That's the thing you gotta buy that house and that will be the thing. What do you think?

Brian Li: Ha

Brian Li: Yeah, David, that's a great question. And here's my take on it. On this matter, I definitely tend to agree with Ramat Sethi on this point. I think traditionally, that was a great way to build generation of wealth. There's nothing wrong with home ownership. Something that you alluded to earlier was the systemic barriers. There's a lot of

Brian Li: This is a whole other podcast on the barriers of letting people of color get low interest rate mortgages, housing, the loan applications. There's a lot of barriers there, right? There's a lot more barriers there. And even when we were talking about setting up a business, getting the loans, if you're a person of color, that's where the barriers are. So I want to make sure I double back on what I was talking about earlier in terms of investing in like the stock market. Well, those barriers,

Brian Li: have been reduced. It's really easy for us to open up an E-Trade account. And I want to make sure that I'm clear with our viewers, like that's a great thing for us to do. Investing in the stock market, these diversified low-cost portfolios, those barriers have been reduced. Now on the flip side over here, David, I'm so glad you brought this up, housing, getting loan startup money for businesses, those barriers continue to exist. so the housing matter, it's a tough one.

David Harris: do that you

Brian Li: The market, is so expensive now to buy a house. I agree with Rahmet in that we have to be mindful. If it works well for you financially and the interest rate is right and the price for the house is right and you are...

Brian Li: meeting a couple criteria and Ramit does an amazing job actually in his book setting these criteria. Are you going to be in that one place for a while? I mean owning a house is so expensive especially in today's market that you know a couple years ago this conversation might be would be different right David but I think in 2025 I would have to agree that I would not just rush into buying a house for the sake of buying a house. It is so pricey.

David Harris: Bye.

Brian Li: And oftentimes, you know, this is a hot take right here, David. I'm going to go in and just jump right into it. This is kind of a hot take. But that American dream, right, of owning a house, that American dream was really who created that ad campaign was the big corporate banks. There's no question about it. Of course they do. We just we just did this last Friday in my middle school class, a 6 % mortgage for 30 years, fixed rate for a $500,000 home.

David Harris: Right.

Brian Li: you should have seen the looks on all these 14 year old's faces. They were like, Mr. Lee, by the end of that 30 years, you're paying $500,000 worth of interest. We've paid more interest than the house itself. does buying a house make sense for some people? Absolutely. Is it the end all be all that it's being pushed as? I definitely agree with Rahmet on this one. You've got to do what's right for you and your family. And if you're renting, viewers out there, listeners, there's nothing wrong with it. If that's what works for your budget and

David Harris: Yeah.

Brian Li: You know, so definitely getting your finances in order and getting your investment accounts in order, that's a, I would say a higher priority than rushing out and buying a house. Again, if it fits your budget and it fits your lifestyle and you need a house, more power to you, 100%. More often than not a good investment, but with rates as high as they are, the environment, the way it's been, the rates of...

Brian Li: you know, just the cost of housing in general are through the roof with inflation. It is costly to have a house. David, that's a whole nother podcast we could talk about. Switching gutters, HVAC system. That was me last summer. Viewers out there, right? 10 grand down the tubes for a new HVAC. So certainly there's a lot of guilt with that. I was talking to a faculty of color not long ago, like people still go like, oh wow, you're there, you know, kind of almost.

David Harris: Right, and the HVAC system. Right.

Brian Li: judging her for renting and it's like, ignore the noise, you've got to do what's right for you. So that's my take on housing. It is not necessarily the end all be all top priority that you must do. If it doesn't fit your lifestyle, I would not rush into buying a house at these rates.

David Harris: Yeah, you're right. And I think sometimes we get even, even a few years ago when they were really, really low, people got seduced into to getting them. love what you say. Who created the campaigns or whatever. And of course in 2008, you know, my dog could have got a mortgage. mean, they were giving those mortgages, adjustable rate mortgages. And I'm telling you, I have seen people get into a lot of trouble. I've seen people get in trouble.

David Harris: older people taking out second mortgages on homes and all that kind of stuff. And you're right, there's not only systemic barriers, but there's stuff out here. I don't want to say like vultures, but they're just waiting for you to, know, right? The same way with young college kids. I I know you're talking to them because I remember getting that first retail. was the, I was living up in Illinois at the time, Carson period, Scott, big department store. I remember I got my first, that was my first credit card, Brian.

David Harris: $500 and I thought I had $500, right? And it was like, I can go out here and buy that thing and pay the little minimum and not having the literacy. And I think that's so important what you're doing. So kids don't get caught up. They, some of them still may, but at least they can say you never taught me or I never knew.

Brian Li: Mm-hmm.

Brian Li: Yes, sir. Well, I appreciate it. And I think with the landscape has changed, right? And I'm over here blurting out future ideas for podcasts because we could do another one on this one. Young students getting these NIL deals now and the money's coming in and the vultures, like you said, are coming out. And so I'm hearing so many horror stories already with that, David. I know that's a conversation for another time, but getting these young student athletes prepared for real life has been one of my...

David Harris: Hmm.

David Harris: I'm sure.

Brian Li: top priorities also. It's been a lot of fun working with them.

David Harris: Yeah, because I'm sure again, they're 20 some years old and somebody offered you five, $6 million. That seems like a lot of money. You and I both know that's not a lot of money. If you're going to live to be 80 some years old and have two or three kids and no, it isn't a lot of money, but it's, hard to explain that to folks. this is great and we could go on and on and on, about so, so much more, but, let's wrap up. And I, this is a question I have been

Brian Li: Absolutely.

Brian Li: haha

David Harris: asking on my guests this season. So I want you to reflect on the role of education and whether our current system can truly be reformed or if something entirely new needs to be created. And I always quote Lisa Delpit, who's argued that the system cannot, she's of course an educator and phenomenal individual has argued that the system cannot be reformed and that the best we can hope for.

David Harris: is to act as fugitives in our teaching, finding ways to subvert the system, let's say from within. So now based on your work as a math teacher, you've been, worked at Charlotte Mecklenburg School systems and at Providence Day and your work with financial literacy, both with educators and students, do you see yourself as working to reform systems that have historically excluded marginalized people? Or are you envisioning something fundamentally different? And what might that

David Harris: vision actually look like.

Brian Li: I tell you, what a great question, David, and something I've been thinking about for a long time.

Brian Li: You know, I think her comment was spot on. I think reforming it is a tall task. I think changing it from within, you know, I think that's something that we can do. think that's, you know, seeing what we're doing at Providence Day, creating these finance classes, these entrepreneurship classes, I think that's something where I feel like the goals can be achieved. I think we can create.

Brian Li: create pathways for students, take down some barriers, get them these educational pieces that we've been missing and incorporate that into our school systems. And again, these benefit everybody, right? And I think it's one of those things where, gosh, like we could go on and on about the dismantling of DEI and all these other things. Financial literacy.

Brian Li: entrepreneurship skills. This benefits everybody. think everyone wins from this. I'll say this also. think I had the privilege of going up to New York and working with the Klingenstein Institute in Columbia University. And man, you talk about hundreds of just incredible educators, young educators coming into our workforce. And I know there's a

David Harris: Right, right, yeah.

Brian Li: we could talk about the teacher shortage and everything. But the profession is still alive and we've got some incredible talent coming in. if we can, and that was kind of my goal up there was to educate them on how to take care of themselves, but also the importance of getting this curriculum incorporated into schools. And that was also my work that I did in Nashville at the NIS National Conference was getting this into school. So reforming everything.

Brian Li: David, I don't know if I can do that, but I certainly love that fugitive line that we can change it from within and start getting some of these incredibly important life skills. Get this to our students, to our students of color, to everybody, you know, to do what we can from a grassroots level, education-based, to start closing that racial wealth gap, the gender pay gap. I mean, all the pay gaps. I think that's where it's got to start. Again, I...

Brian Li: I'm an optimist. think the reforming piece, doing what we can in our power, I think this is something that we can do. And again, thinking about those incredible teachers, I'm 45 now, and I think that was a, of all the workshops I did, that was a really meaningful one also because getting to see this new crop, this next generation of incredibly talented educators, like-minded, ready to make some change,

Brian Li: That was important for me. think that was, you know, there's a lot of doom and gloom out there, but for me to see this young crop of, wow, these are the best of the best and working with incredible young talent at Providence Day, think teachers are still so important. You know, kind of mentioned, you know, jobs, what the landscape's going to look like. We've got some incredible people here and this is a, if there are any administrators listening to this, man, nurture your talent, take care of your talent, take care of your faculty, especially your faculty of color.

Brian Li: They are needed in the classroom with everything that's going on. So I think that's my take on that, David. Hopefully that's a good enough answer, hopefully.

David Harris: night.

David Harris: No, no it is. And I think it, it harkens to that idea of making what we teach relevant to students in their lived experience and what they need right now. And, and, and just like you said, we didn't even touch upon AI has a tool. I know we talk about AI all the time as another tool you can use to help in investing and, and, know,

Brian Li: You

Brian Li: unbelievable. Unbelievable.

David Harris: There are many ways that people can take that route. And again, I appreciate you. I wish there had been somebody around like you, POCC back in the nineties when I first got here, to really think of, because I've always had an aversion to money. Having to have a spouse that's really good at it. But yeah, that is such an important thing. And I really applaud you for what you're doing. So piggyback to that.

Brian Li: You

David Harris: how people get a hold of you, especially teachers. And we didn't really talk about it, how they might implement this kind of system in their school. What are some of the steps that you took at PD? So people want to get in contact with you and continue this very, important conversation or have you at their school if they're listening or what do they need to do?

Brian Li: man, thanks David and check out my website. I encourage anyone interested, check out my website, BeLeafFinanceCoach.com. There are incredible resources there for you. I want you to go check that out. This is a kind of a different way of doing it these last couple of years is.

Brian Li: you can take my curriculum, take a look at my lessons, my packets, my course guides. I've created four books guides for teachers, a financial freedom guide for teachers, a financial freedom guide for first-year parents, a financial freedom guide for NIL student athletes, all sorts of resources that are there for you.

Brian Li: and at no cost. So please check it out if you're interested in creating a class for yourself. Reach out to me, check out my website. For me, it's not about the money anymore. It's just not.

Brian Li: It's really not and so check out those resources no cost I have another guide for new graduates so lots of resources wherever you are in life if you're a if you need financial education for yourself or if you're interested from the school perspective and wanting to set up a class got plenty of resources at my website for you to check out at no cost

David Harris: Great, forgot in my introduction to say you're an author now. Right, I forgot all about that. So you mean you're just, almost though, we'll look at it. I will put all that information in the show notes. again, Brian, thank you so much for coming on season three of the Teacher's Forum. I really appreciate it. Glad to call you both colleague and friend.

Brian Li: Well we're working on that. Thank you Dave. We're still working on that. Thank you. Almost.

Brian Li: It's been an honor, David. Thank you for having me back. It's always a pleasure. All right, thank you. Bye-bye.

David Harris: Have a good one.