124. Burnout, Business, and Redefining Success in Midlife: My Story

This week’s episode is a little different.

I was invited onto Matt Robinson’s podcast Fitness Business Insights to talk about my journey, from NHS dietitian… to commercial gym PT… to burnout… to building Still Space Hull.

We explore:

• Why I left a secure 10-year career
• The identity shift from “health professional” to personal trainer
• Burnout, overworking, and forcing growth
• Why “success” isn’t always a full diary and bigger numbers
• The messy, nonlinear path of building a business that actually fits who you are

This conversation isn’t just about business.

It’s about alignment.
 It’s about being brave enough to step out of the box.
 It’s about learning when to slow down instead of push harder.

If you’ve ever felt boxed in; by a job, a title, an industry, or even your own expectations, I hope this episode feels like permission to grow in your own way.

Thanks for listening to Rooted In Presence

If you’d like to get in touch with a question about today’s episode or find out how I can support you with coaching, here’s how to reach me:
📧 Email: carlykillenpt@gmail.com
📱 Instagram: @thestrongbonescoach

Do you crave unshakable confidence in your strength from midlife and beyond? Would you love to achieve your goals without sacrificing family time or self-care?

Ready to take your strength to the next level? Start building a stronger body and healthier bones with my Strong Bones Starter Kit; your step-by-step guide to safe and effective strength training at home.
👉 Click here to learn more and access today

🌟 Stay connected and inspired with daily wellness tips on Instagram @thestrongbonescoach.
🌟 For tailored advice or personal queries, email me at carlykillenpt@gmail.com

Thank you for being here, and I look forward to supporting you on your journey to strength, health, and confidence! 💪🦴✨

Transcript

1:58

Car, welcome to the show. How are you doing? I'm really well, Matt, so thanks for having me on. You're very welcome. Thank you for being here. As, as I've just explained in the introduction, I've, I've made people fully aware as to why I wanted to bring you on and what, what we're gonna cover, because I want to give people a taste of how you can start in the fitness industry on one path, on sort of a set path, and then sort of move in different directions from there. I think you are a great example of that. So I want us to, to go into all of those different areas today. Um, take us right back to the start. Just before you got into fitness, you were working as a dietician, weren't you? Tell us about what you were doing there and, and why, why you decided to sort of step away from that and enter the wacky world of fitness. Yeah. It's definitely not a turn of events I was expecting to be fair, I, uh, I've always been quite an academic person, did. Managed to tick the boxes at school quite well. You know, I did quite well in exams and, um, I was good at achieving, you know, certificates and passing things. So, you know, I was quite interested in the human body, so it felt quite natural to go into being a dietician. I'd considered medicine, decided I didn't fancy night shifts. So at that point when I was like 16 and I was like, what else can I do? And my mom brought home a job sheet and there was this dietician job there and I thought, oh, I could do that. So, um, yeah, I trained a qualified, um, started a career that I thought would last me the rest of my working days. To be honest. There's, I saw a lot of opportunities to progress and, you know, um, put a lot of my. To work, which I liked to use. I liked problem solving, uh, working with people. Um, although I didn't always like working with people that developed over the time, actually while I was a dietician. Um, and yeah, I was progressing up the ranks, you know, becoming more experienced, more well known, um, you know, possibly more respected, you know, in the profession. Um, I was left for 10 years. I, uh, brought up a lot of student dieticians and saw them come to then work with me, so I was, you know, doing well. Um, but actually, uh, there was a bit of a wobble in the, the middle of that career where I'd stopped looking after my health. Um, that also caused a career wobble, you know, and I had to sort of really take a step back, look at what am I doing? How am I, um, looking after myself because it was starting to affect my work. You know, it was a very busy job, quite stressful at times. Um, so yeah, that took me towards learning to lift weights, um, going on a bit of a. Health journey, getting a pt, um, which I hadn't really expected to do, but, you know, I'd found them through a, it was a, it was a weight loss competition, wasn't it? Yep. So, yeah, that's, um, that took me down that route. And then what that did for me, it gave me that more capacity, better ability for problem solving. Um, and I started to think, oh, what's next? You know, what else can I do with this extra capacity I have? Um, but then actually the opportunities for promotion weren't what I wanted. So again, I had to take that step back again and think, well, what am I doing here? You know, how am I using the skills? How can that go elsewhere? Um, and what I realized is because I enjoyed working with the student dietician so much, and I'd become a little bit of the go-to, but when people were struggling a bit, um, either in the career or the day-to-day, um, the mindset, I'd start to bring a lot of the coaching that I was experiencing with the PT into. Do my work. So I thought actually, you know, I use a lot of coaching in the training that I do in the help, the way I help to develop people. So when I got invited by my PT to consider, um, exploring that, that's, um, where I took my first tentative steps into exploring personal training as a next possible career. So, so not too dissimilar to our last story that we had on the show, the last interview. This, this was a career change for you, wasn't it? You weren't coming in as like a, you know, a as I call it, a fresh face, 20-year-old that's naive and is gonna take over the world type approach. That was, that was my introduction into fitness. Um, you know, that was more my, my way into it. This, for you was almost like it's, you've already got a bit of life experience. You already, you know, got some responsibilities as well. I imagine at that time it's, it's probably not, not as easy to start from that position, although you've got life experience. You've gotta, you have gotta make it work. I think you, you've gotta, you've gotta jump in with both feet and get cracking straight away. Tell us what it was like then making that change, because I can't imagine what it's like stepping outta the identity of someone that's been a dietician for 10 years and leaving that behind and then starting again, starting fully self-employed. There was no, you know, doing hours for the gym or anything like that, that a lot of people do these days. You just went straight in with both feet. Like, tell us what that was like. That must've been both exciting and terrifying at the same time. Yeah, exactly. That and yeah, there was a, an ident, an identity challenge there because I was well respected. I, you know. In terms of society, you know, that the title of a health professional is often held above that of a personal trainer. So I did get some interesting questions as I was explaining to my colleagues that I was leaving behind the thing I did a degree for, to go to something that essentially was, you know, you can do a six week course for now. I know we know as personal trainers that there's a lot more in it, but also when you compare it to the perception of the kind of training you need, um, it's not, it's not considered as respectable. Um, and I had to sort of weigh that up myself as well, and really sit with, how do I feel about that? How do I feel about the title versus what I actually want in life? And that was really, you know, a challenging decision to make because again, I, I had no risk that I was aware of, of losing that job. Um, it was in demand. I was busy. I was doing a good job. Um, I could have stayed there, there were other career opportunities within that field. Um, so to go out of employment into full self-employment, yeah, I didn't have like a massive, um, nest egg to fall back on either. It really was flying by the seat seat of my pants, put in a big leap of faith, a lot of trust in my ability to make it work, and even potentially the humility, which is why I had to sit with that. If it didn't work out, I might have to consider going back because all my colleagues were like, you can come back, you know, and I, I didn't like to hear that because that's not really what you wanna hear and you're taking this big leap forward. But I did sit with that as a, an option and a possibility of, well, you know, if it doesn't go well, this is an option. Although it wouldn't feel very good. Yeah, and it sounds negative, but actually I think you have to be really real in situations like this, especially when you've got other responsibilities. So yeah, I just have to get really real with myself and think, what are you prepared to do? Are you, you know, prepared to go through and to make a, take a risk like this? So yeah. Yeah, yeah. I think that's something that is overlooked is that if people are doing this as a career change, there is often that opportunity isn't there. That you could, you could give this, give this your all for a year and if it didn't work, you probably would still have enough relevance and credibility to just step back in, whether that be in, back in the same place or somewhere else. If you're good at what you do, like think people really underestimate how difficult it is to find great members of staff. So if you've been a great member of staff, someone will snap you back up. No problem. Like, it is so hard to find great people that actually do a good job and care, and we think that they're 10 a penny and they're not. Um, so yeah, like there is always that option. But I think you did approach it from a stance of almost, I think your mentality was almost as if, no, I've burnt the bridges, I've burned the boats. Yeah. There's no going back. That would feel like a sense of failure, even though it, it might be necessary. But you did approach it from, I'm not gonna be tentative with this. I'm, I'm gonna go in and I'm gonna give it my all. Just, just while we're on this piece then,'cause I think it'd be interesting for people to know, what, what do you think then was the core reason for that move?'cause I, I don't get the sense that you were expecting to become a PT and earn loads more money than you were as a dietician or anything like that. What was it you were going after? Was it, was it more like freedom, flexibility to be your own boss? Like what were the things that were appealing to you because where you were sounded almost quite cush. There sounded, it sounded like a, a nice, easy place to be. Yeah, I think I tend to struggle with, um, sitting where it's easy. So, um, and I've learned to find a bit more ease in life since. But, um, yeah, I, when I see, you know, issues and I see solutions, um, I like to try and solve them, support, change in a really big organization that's really hard. Um, I did actually manage to create a lot of good changes. I even did a master's in innovative healthcare, which supported me to make some, some big changes, but had to just weigh up, like how much of my energy did I want to put into trying to make these big shifts versus making my life how I wanted to be and be being able to develop in the direction I wanted to develop as well. Because, um, you know, you, you've got to stay relevant when you're in a, a government funded position. Like, fair enough, they're not gonna pay for you to do certain bits of training if they don't see how it's gonna. Um, you know, work for you in your day-to-day job. But that left me quite frustrated. Um, there were some opportunities that I thought my role could develop in, and I was told they weren't going to be made available. Um, so I just had to have a look at like, what do I want? I'm happy to stay where I am because it wasn't a bad place and I tried that. Um, or actually am willing to really go for a satisfying, fulfilling career, which it just wasn't. Feeling like that at that time and the options that were available didn't feel great. And I did consider even looking at working at university, maybe being a lecturer, and that was the kind of route I could have taken. But I think because I was struggling with the idea of the, the institutional change, I felt like actually one institution, maybe even to another, there would be the similar kinds of issues that I was having in terms of being able to make changes at the speed at. I like to and to develop at the, the rate that I want to, to grow at as well. So, yeah. Yeah. So there's almost a bit of a phrase that I wanna plan in here.'cause this is almost, we're, we're gonna, we're gonna go sort of full circle with this. Is, is that where you started was you were in a, an organization where it's like you, you are this type of person, you are this specialist. You belong in this box, and we need you to stay inside this box. That's where we need you to stay. And if you can't stay in that box. That causes a problem for us. Um, and it's not that they were ever gonna like get rid of you or anything for that, but that was a problem for you, is that No, no, I don't wanna stay in this box. I wanted, I wanna do other things as well. Something you and I have in common is that we don't like being stuck in one set thing. It's like, we like to try different things. We like to change our minds, we like to test things. Um, so I can completely understand where, where you would've been at that time. Now, you jumped out of that and found yourself working in a, a big busy commercial gym, didn't you? You were in a, you were in a commercial gym starting out as a pt. You were your own boss now, um, and in charge of your own diary and running, running your own business and that, um, and again, we'll, we'll get into how sometimes that can end up leading to people feeling a little trapped as well. But talk to us about what that was like. How, how did it go when you went in the gym and you started working for yourself? How did you find it? What sort of. What sort of business did you build to yourself there? Yeah, I mean, I loved it. It felt like, a bit like I was living a dream because I never saw myself with a business, you know, when I had a job and it felt like, am I really doing this? You know, especially I was in my mid thirties at the time as well. I'm like, I'm really doing this. And I, I wasn't surrounded with people doing similar things, so it felt really outta the box to, to go and make that career change, especially when I didn't really have to, um, on, on paper anyway. Um, but yeah, it was great. I, I joined, joined a gym that I'd been going to for a good while, so I actually knew a lot of faces even if I didn't know who they were. So that got me a really good start, you know, just going, saying hello to people, letting'em know I wasn't just a member anymore. And, you know, and that actually got me a really good start. Um, you know, I had like a trial offer, so I just got busy offering trials and getting people to get to know me, and yeah, just approaching people to say, uh, why do I recognize you? It was genuinely the truth. I, they were a familiar face and they were looking at me funny because I wasn't in my usual gym kit. So, you know, when you, you recognize somebody, but they've not got the right clothes on so you forget why you know them. So there was a really good opportunity there.'cause I was established as a member. Yeah. Um, so that got me a really good starts. Um, I got quite an early challenge as well'cause it was 2020 and, uh, won't mess up the algorithm saying why that was problematic, but I found myself without a gym after a few months there, there's another, there's another box we were all put into. Yeah. So, so I had to really like, you know, sort of hold, hold steady and again with only being a few months into it. And I had a great start as well. Some really good response and good few clients, you know, to start with. Um, some came with me, some didn't. Um. And it was just sort of that thing of like, do I still want to do this? You know, that challenge of, I've just had the thing that was my, my lead generation, this group of people that I kind of knew taken away from me, and I've got no social media skills. I, I wasn't especially well known in the community. I was quite a, a hermit other than being at work. And then I'd just go home. So I wasn't well known anywhere. So it was really challenging and quite scary, um, given bills wanted to pay in, you know, at a family. So yeah, that's where I just had to dig into the values and think, actually, what do I really want? Do I want to go back to the other job? Um, you know, I already had offers like I'll come back or as assumptions I'd be coming back as well. Um, but I thought, no, I really do want to go for this. So held steady, pounded the streets and delivered a load of leaflets and the timing just landed. And then when we got back in the gym, it did just take off from that point, you know, when, uh. I got full quite quickly and to the point I was referring to other PTs at that point. So yeah. Yeah, we went very old school with the marketing. I remember that actually. I remember, I remember the leaflet drop and things like that. Things these days that people would just snare at and just look down upon and it's like, I think I remember you doing that. And within the space of about a week, you've got like five inquiries or something off the back of these leaflets. And it is like if someone responds to a leaflet, they're pretty damn interested. Like they've had to pick the leaflet up without throwing it in the bin. They've had to read it. They've then had to phone the number that's on there. There's like a number of steps involved in that, far more than just responding to a Facebook ad or something. And then they've actually picked up the phone to speak to a stranger about their health problems. Like I imagine they were all very good leads and, and all came to see you. So yeah, I remember that working quite well. And again, when, that was one of the things about that time wasn't it? Is. Like yourself. I got chucked out the gym and it's like, we've now gotta find a new way to market ourselves. You know, we've got, we've got no audience, we've got no gym floor to re rely on how do we, how do we go and, and find more people? I had the same thing in a slightly different way in that the gyms were my access to the trainers. That's how I got the people that I mentored and coached like yourself. And again, the minute the gyms were short, it's like, oh, I'm, I'm not in front of any PTs anymore. I need to fix that. I hadn't done a good job like yourself. I hadn't really bothered with social media. I hadn't done online marketing or anything. So yeah, we, we were all looking for different ways to do things, weren't we? And I know that, again, at that time, that's where we started to take things a bit more seriously around like some of the digital assets. Like is there a website? Is there a Google profile? Are we collecting reviews? Are we making it easy for people to find us online? Are we taking social media a bit more seriously? And. Not just trying to necessarily go viral but build a bit of a, a reputable brand. And that's something you've done, you've done really well over, over those years. So you went back into the gym, found yourself really busy and you know, you mentioned there you sort of helping out other PTs as well, referring business out to others. What, what happened then?'cause you didn't stay in the commercial gym forever. Yeah, there was definitely a bit of a sense of that. The amount of hours that I built up, I'd almost created another job for myself. When I realized my hours and how, how some of it was feeling, it was a difficult line to tread.'cause I loved all my clients, but also I was feeling a bit drained in terms of the amount of work. And I think if I planned to stay at that level, it would've been fine. But because I wanted to grow further, I wanted to explore more online coaching, I picked up and started to develop my online practices, you know. Through, uh, being outta the gym and being back in and developing more skills, um, I didn't quite have the bandwidth to do both. Um, and I always admire people that can, these people that can trans transition from jobs bit by bit, or people that can do two things at once. I can't do that. I tend to need to take leaps and then have a rest. Um, and I guess that's taught me how I work and that that helps. Um, so yeah, so like I said, I was kind of expanding and feeling like I was a bit of a ceiling and pushing myself sort of quite hard to try and, you know, do that extra work to build the online. Um, but then I found myself, um, also doing other work that I was invited to do, um, through contacts at the university. Um, and I was invited to take part in a study to write a program for a osteoporosis study. Women, women in menopause, um, that went really well. And they got really great results. You know, the bone health improved. They, um, all the strength markers improved, you know, and this was from like a group, um, training session that they did twice a week. Um, but I loved it that much, that actually I decided on to do that privately. So I inquired at the gym, you know, I wonder how we could, um, incorporate that, you know, at the gym. Would there be a part of the free weights area we could use, or could I use a studio and take some weights in there? And I just sort of get, getting brick walls, like, no, that, no, they wouldn't approve that, you know, or, or you'd have to run a class as an instructor. I'm like, no, it's my thing, you know? Um, I inquired at the uni. They were like, well, we'll employ you as a instructor and give you 25 pound a session. I'm like, no, it's my thing. So yeah. I'm an expert, build expert. I deserve to be paid well for this. I'm doing a good job. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So, yeah, so I actually, um, you know, found out from people, you know, who was willing to come across who might want to follow me over. And then I said, um, met Sam Young, who I was coaching with at the time, and he was opening a bigger facility than what he'd had before. And I spoke to him about the opportunity of hiring that space. Um, and he said yes. Um, we aligned quite a lot on values, so I sort of took the Strong Bones Club there. Um, built that up that got full. Um, and then I realized I was in two places, um, you know, sort of quite full at the commercial gym, going to another gym to do this class and then feeling a bit boxed in. Maybe that mentality of if I want to do something different, I can't really do it at that gym. Um, and like I say, with um, chatting with Sam, we, we met eye to eye on a lot of things. We had a lot of similar. Um, you know, shared values. So yeah, I made the decision to transfer over into that, that private space. Um, so yeah, so again, that's another example there, like at the commercial gym where even though you're self-employed, you're running your own business, you can find yourself stuck in a box. This is, I've spoken before on the, on the podcast in, in my newsletters about I've, I've, I've got this phrase that I use called the fitness matrix. This idea that the system is designed to sort of trap, trap you when you get into fitness and you, you can break outta that, but it's gotta be a conscious effort because you might be self-employed, you might be your own boss, but if the gym sees you as a PT and they want you to stay in that box, they will do everything in their power to keep you in that box. Um, and I think that it's actually got more difficult since you and I were in commercial gyms, Carly, because now that box has been changed somewhat in the, now we expect you to do hours for us as your primary working hours. And do a bit of PT on the side. Um, and that strangles your ability to actually grow your PT business. So now the box they want to keep you in is like fitness instructor slash class, instructor slash cleaner slash do a bit of PT on the side if you can find the time to do so. Um, so even though you've, you are your own boss, technically it's like, no, no, this is your box. Stay in your box. Don't ask to come outta the box.'cause we can't deal with people that won't stay in the box at which point you go, no, thank you. See you later. I'm gonna break out this box and go and do something else. This is the bit that I think's really important in this story because I think so many trainers get stuck in that place where you were there. They end up stuck there 4, 5, 6 years in looking around sort of thinking, is this all there is? I want, I wanna do bigger things. I wanna do better things. They might not need to go down the route of opening their own facility. They might do what you did. Go and join someone else that's already done that maybe that was their goal, not yours. And you can go and help them in a way you are. It might be that you go down doing some of the online stuff, like again, you've already mentioned you can try different things and go different routes. You don't have to stay stuck in that fitness matrix of you're a PT now and that's what you're gonna do and that's all you can do. And he's like, people only see it as I've gotta do this, and then my only way out is to go and do some online stuff and hopefully that'll be enough one day for me to not do pt. The reality of that is actually like very few people manage to do that, don't they? Like very few people actually managed to replace their PT with like a full online setup unless they're working for someone else. It's, it's very, very difficult to do that. Um, what, what do you think about that time and those decisions and, and, and like making that like, do. I've tried to almost like describe it there and, and make it all encompassing. What, what are your thoughts on it? What, what was that thought process like in terms of not, not getting stuck? Yeah. I think as soon as I sensed the box, it's like a right. I'm looking for a way out. Um, which is interesting. I think that's what I learned over this journey so far. It's like, it took me a bit to notice the pattern. You know, when I started getting the nose, when I start think, feel like I'm buttoning it up against walls, then it's like, oh, it's time to look at something else because. Me trying to stay sat in the box to not rock the boat or you know, try and stay where I am.'cause that's easy. Um, I often curse myself for it because I think I give myself a hard time and make things difficult because, you know, as soon as things are Ty, I kind of think it gives me ideas to what can I do next? And um, so yeah, so as soon as I sense that, you know, the opportunity for growth isn't there, or unlikely to be stifled, then it's, I'm looking at what else. Um, you know, where can I grow and what can allow me to go in the direction I want to go in? Um, and with the online stuff, yeah, I never wanted to be like only online because again, I didn't want to create another job or another, like, especially not a desk job. Even as a dietician, I got to walk around ward to ward. I was never sat at a desk, so I never wanted that. So I kind of knew that wasn't gonna be. The thing, um, the idea I had at one point was to be mostly online and do, do workshops and things. I thought I'd been, you know, teach on a, a fitness topic now and then a few times a year and get clients together and, and things like that. So that's kind of what I was holding as the potential dream, you know, at that point that I was trying to build into. So, so, yeah. And then you move into the independent facility, you manage to take some clients across, but at that point you lose all that footfall, don't you? You lose all that. Um, the, the, the biggest benefit of being in a commercial gym, the one thing that will always have working in its favor is you've got a captive audience there of several thousand people, probably five and a half thousand people, 6,000 people in the gym you were in. Um, so what, what was that like then taking your business over there? Working somewhere much smaller, much more, I wanna say. Probably much more suited to like a, a one-to-one service, premium type feel, that sort of stuff. What was that like trying to transition over there and get used to that and then obviously still, still trying to grow the business at the same time without, without necessarily a, a huge sea of people to pull from. Yeah, I mean, yeah, it was, it was quite challenging, right? So I didn't bring all of my clients over, you know, some of them weren't able to transfer across, so it did leave a little bit of a gap initially. Um, and we did experiment with, um, small group training, which went quite, uh, well, you know, to start with and thought this could be quite a good, good way to, to grow. It's a little bit more. And we used, um, we used ads in that, like a front end offer for that, didn't we? We had a, and that was really popular. Um, it got people in. Um, so yeah, so it worked really well. But again, I think because of how I grow and develop, which I had the space to do there, I didn't, you know, I had that bit of quiet time with it being quieter with it being like a quiet office. I could go off in and just have a bit of alone time to, you know, probably get creative, um, you know, sort of suited me for that. Um, but then I found that it wasn't quite suiting me the style of training that I was doing. There was some other things that, um, I was wanting to include in my service that when I found that, you know, a lot of my clients are quite quiet, um, they can be prone to, you know, changes in mood. A lot of them are sort of midlife menopausal. So again, it kind of requires you to respond to what they need at that time. So sometimes I was actually taking them off and doing a bit of meditation with them or going for a walk, and I felt a bit like. Self-conscious that I was doing things quite differently, but I didn't really know any other PTs that were using meditation as a coaching tool as well. So, yeah. Um, so yeah, so it didn't really, it gave me a bit of a uncertainty about the kind of work I wanted to do. So we stopped advertising, the group offering, you know, sort of went back to one-to-one and online hybrid options. Um, because I felt like that was, I did better work. Um, it suited me better. I got better results for the people of the kinds of results that, you know, gives me fulfillment to, to support. Um, so yeah, so it did probably cause a little bit of a stall for a while. I figured myself out a bit. So, um, that was quite challenging. Um, again, we took away the, the front end offer stopped doing ads'cause I didn't wanna bring in more people that I knew weren't suited. And we have that sort of vibe, don't you, sort of, when you're not quite sure, you're not quite. Enjoying or feeling what it is that you're doing anymore, naturally people won't want to join because I'm not really feeling it. So why would they wanna come and do that if I'm feeling a bit outta sorts with what I was doing? So yeah, there was a bit of a stall for a while and I did just put against almost myself. Um, for a while with that, I, um, even like got to quite a severe burnout'cause I was just doing load of social media and like trying to force growth when I still wasn't feeling quite aligned with things. So, so that was a really challenging time. Um, so yeah, so having to take that step back and be really honest with myself as well, you know, um, evaluating how much time I was spending on social media versus the results that was getting me, it was quite, um, uh, a realization. So I had to just, yeah, put it, put things down for a bit, take time out, just look after the clients I had. Um. Figure out what it was that really did work and what I was prepared to do. Um, so, so yeah, so that was like, it was great. It was what I needed. Uh, but it did bring challenges. It might not look like much of a success story at that point.'cause you know, this is the, the bit in the story where it all looks like it's gonna be over for a bit. Yeah. Before you come up the other other side of things, so, yeah. Yeah. But sometimes though, you've gotta go through that, haven't you? To sort of,'cause what, what, again, what a trap you can fall into here is you can decide, right? I don't wanna do this commercial gym thing anymore, I'm gonna take my business somewhere else. But ultimately, if you, ultimately, if you take, take your business somewhere else and build exactly the same thing, but in a different place, you're gonna run into the same sorts of problems. Eventually, you might have taken away some of the politics of being in a commercial gym and some of the lack of control maybe. That, that you might feel that you've got in that type of establishment. But if you're still doing, you know, 40 hours a week of PT and trying to do online stuff and trying to grow a brand and this, that and the other, you're still gonna have the same issues, aren't you? You're still gonna feel knackered, burnt out, overworked, maybe not, not feeling the rewards of, of all the effort you're putting in. So I think when you do make that move, you, you do also have to ask what's going to change? What, it can't just be a change of location. It's are there other things that that need to change as well? Along with that, are there different things I can do now in this facility, the different ways I can explore? Um, and you did start to look at, I think initially it was more so for yourself that you started to go down some of this pathway of other things that you started to bring into your service. But you went and, and started to surround yourself with other types of practitioners, didn't you? And then. Get some of the qualifications for those areas and bring that into your work, didn't you Tell us a little bit about some of those other areas you started to explore and how that came into the, the work that you now do. Yeah, it's often that thing of like where you think, oh, you get what you need sometimes, even if it's definitely not a would've wanted. I didn't want to have a, you know, sort of that lower client base for a bit. You never would've volunteered, so would you like things to be difficult for a while? But I think when you are in those times, like say the things I had to do to come outta that burnout, um, I started to engage more with breath work, um, which helped me bring, um, my mood up, my stability. The confidence again. So yeah, I decided to become a breathwork facilitator. Um, and yeah, I also, off the back of that was thinking I can't just do more of the same. Like if I burnt out, trying to force myself to do a ton of social media, that didn't even really bring me very many clients, um, in comparison to the amount of time I was putting in. Then I can't just repeat that. Um, as you said, going from the bigger gyms, a small gym, let's not repeat the, the things that weren't working. So I had to really think about how can I actually still grow? Without repeating, you know, the same mistake. And that really drained me. So I decided actually I was committed to not being behind the laptop quite so much, and to get out into the community, go to some different networks, meet different practitioners, um, invite people to the gym to come meet me. And it was all about sort of the outreach going back out into the world instead of tucking myself away, um, in an office, just sort of trying to do the social media thing. Um, and yeah, and actually taking my space self to spaces that I genuinely enjoyed being in, um, that genuinely supported me is actually what brought a lot of my newer clients in because, um, that's obviously work better that way. People get to know me a little bit, then they get a bit curious about what I do. Then it turns out that they might actually, uh, want to use some of those services. Um, but yeah, I did bring a few challenges in terms of that diversification. Um. As to what am I actually, you know, I don't look much like a PT these days. Um, but I kind of went through that a bit when I left dietetics as well. Like when I first went into the gym as a personal trainer, learning this new skill, you almost don't want to do your original thing. You know, I, I didn't wanna touch nutrition for a while, even though I was the most qualified person in the gym at that time. Yeah. I almost didn't want to do nutrition sessions that just left the NHS, uh, from 10 years of, you know, nutrition work. And eventually I brought that back in and made friends with it again. And it happened a bit with the personal training as well. Like as I started to do more breath work and more holistic services, again, I just sort of like, where should I even be doing strength training? Do I even want to be, I'd completely fallen out with my own training, with having the, the physical changes that came with burnout. So I had to rebuild that. So I was just hating lifting weights at that point, and I was just like, oh, don't even wanna do any of this. But I did remember actually from learning what. From moving from the, the commercial gym to the private gym, not to throw the baby out with the bath water. You know, try to bring through the skills, um, without abandoning everything about what I've done so far. So it's not getting a new qualification and being like, now this is my new identity and that's not even a thing anymore. It's how can I even bring this together and how does it all fit in? And, you know, what am I actually doing here? And how is that relevant to that? And yeah, that, that was quite a challenge. Yeah. Yeah. So I think there's a couple of things there that I wanna pick out from that, that hope people have heard is that you've, you've described a few scenarios now where like the phrase you used was it wasn't working. And I think what's interesting is that often when people think of a phrase like that, it probably relates to I'm not earning money. And it's like there's a number of scenarios where your business has been doing really well financially. But it wasn't working. And I think that's really important for people listening to understand is that,'cause that's my worry for a lot of people is that you can copy what other people do. You can copy the well trodden path and earn well financially. You, I, I don't think it's that difficult these days to earn five grand a month, six grand a month from doing typical fitness stuff. It's not overly difficult. It's quite simple. But that doesn't mean you should do it because it might not be deep down what works for you. You might be better off earning slightly less and doing it in a different way. You might get far more fulfillment from that and live a far better life as a result of that. You might be better off doing slightly something slightly different. And as a result you end up far more successful than that because it's actually what you wanna do. Um, so that, that's something that I think's worth burning mind.'cause I've, I've been the PT that earns really good money and sort of goes, oh, is this all there is this isn't working? Um, and it's not because. I can't afford to eat and I can't afford to pay the rent. It's just because it just feels like it's, it's not quite enough. And I think it's okay to feel that way and, and explore that. So there's that side. But then the other side is that once you make that decision that you don't want to travel that well, trodden path, and you wanna do something a bit different, be prepared for what Carly explained a minute ago and described like, you're gonna go on a bit of a journey and you're gonna have to figure out who you are and, and what that means and how you want your life to look like. And you're gonna have to figure some shit out. You're gonna have to do a bit of trial and error, aren't you? You're gonna have to maybe write a few thoughts down and ask yourself some tough questions and maybe speak to a few people around you and. So I think, what, what do I want? What do I really want? I know what I don't want potentially, but what do I want? Um, and sometimes it helps to actually do that the other way around. Figure out what you don't want first.'cause you're often clearer on that. And then go with the opposite. I know that's an exercise I've, I've, I've had yourself and others do before at our events. Um, so I, I, I want people to pay attention to that because it isn't just about, this isn't working because I'm not earning money. It's quite often. No, no, there's some money there, but it's not working for other reasons. So you started to bring in these other skills whilst working in this independent facility. What did that mean in terms of,'cause the struggle there is like, how do you, how do you start to sell yourself? What do you start to call yourself? This is the type of stuff that we, we had to start solving, didn't we? What, what did that start to look like, you know, towards the latter stages of being in that independent facility? Like I say, I still did my usual client sessions. I still was able to bring in, like my online clients, they'll will have a session on Zoom once a month and a session in person once a month. So, you know, that was all going on and that was ticking over quite nicely. Um, I did start to bring in breath work workshops at the gym, um, and I was really, you know, grateful for the support that I had with that. Um, it was a great place to be able to try that out. Um, I started to interact with other practitioners and go and support people on their retreats and, uh, visit other businesses that invited me to come and deliver different services there as well. So again, I was sort of quite, um, started spreading out again, you know, sort of started exploring different places to work, different environments, um, and just evaluating all the time like, what's working about this? What's not working? You know, the, the workshops at the gym were great because the, the gym had a membership. Although it wasn't a great deal of numbers, I wasn't looking for a lot of people, but there was a few that were interested that became regulars, um, supporting with the workshops. Um, and like I say, I started to bring in those skills into my offerings in terms of what to call myself. I'm still figuring that out. I think it might be on its way, but, um, yeah, so I think that's why I've had more success going to meet people, getting to know me a bit. But yeah, I'm still very much working on. What is this thing? I really don't know. Yeah, try try a few different titles and see which one gets the best response. Yeah, exactly. So that's gonna be still a work in progress. Um, but I think, like I said, we did a lot of brainstorming about how do I do this? Because I was bringing people in, um, you know, they're finding me through Google, which is great. Um, and then doing my usual consultation, um, I could, you know, see from what they were saying, what would I want to recommend in terms of a service, but they weren't always open to that.'cause a lot of people still don't know what breath work is. They maybe feel a bit over faced if I let them know the level of growth that's available to them, because you've gotta be, you know, meet people where they're at and try to modify or moderate actually what are they ready for. And if they join me on this journey. Is there that potential for those other next steps, you know, that they could be open to. So it was quite a hard line to tread really. Um,'cause I could find myself just sort of prescribing personal training, but then leaving myself short of the things that I know I can help people with. Um, and then there was a side where I was explaining, or, you know, my dream for them almost. And, uh, basically freaking them out and, you know, that's too much for'em to hear in that moment. So it's trying to find that, that middle space where like, how can they sort of get a sense of what I do and be open to the things I can do without saying I'm this one thing. Yeah. Um, and that's when we came up with that, um, what I called it, the en embodied strength profile, but essentially a kind of assessment that I can take them through that incorporates different aspects and introduces what I do quite gently. Um, so that it's just a bit of a taste. Some of the aspects that might feel a bit more out there or outta the box for some people that are not familiar. But also attracting people in that are familiar with the very holistic side of things that might not have considered strength training or might not have wanted to go to certain other types of personal maybe'cause they think they might not understand their way of living. So it's sort of brought in some different types of people, people that are very much physical and you know, sort of very science based. Not that there's not science in all of the breath work, it's very broad spectrum, but you know, people that are, would not want to consider journaling, meditation, any of those kinds of things. They would just want to, you know, maybe lose weight, lift weight, um, lift weights, get some, get a bit stronger, uh, feel healthier. And then there's the people who, you know, maybe the workers like tarot readers and they, the workers that massage therapists and things like that. Where they think, oh actually they, I don't wanna be laughed at for my kind of, um, beliefs and things, um, by a personal trainer. Not that I think pieces would do that, but you know, people have a perception and I did it points in life where I thought, I don't think they'll understand that. Um, so again, I think it's a bit of a perception, but again, um, when you sort of work with a quite a broad spectrum of skills because it shows that actually, oh, this person gets what I do, but they've got this other thing that I dunno anything about and vice versa. So it was sort of a way to bring in these almost opposite ends of the spectrum of types of people that actually could suit to work with me. So again, I always really struggled with that. Client avatar thing because it's like, well, who'd you work with? Well, it could be an office worker that's super stressed and it could be someone that works as a psychic. So I don't really know how to marry those two together. Yeah, it's more, it's more about what, what common problems are you solving? That's the avatar, isn't it? That's where people so wrong with that niche and stuff is, it doesn't matter if it's a 30 5-year-old man or a 70-year-old woman, if they've got the same problem and you can help solve the problem, you can get in front of them, can't you? You can market to them. Yeah, exactly. So this is a really good example then of this, this, um, profile that you've put together is a great example for people where you can, you know, I I often say like, don't market your, your sort of profession necessarily, or your service. So as a pt, you don't wanna market yourself from the standpoint of like, I'm a personal trainer that sells personal training. What you wanna market is your front end offer. And, and that's, that's what will stand out. And that's particularly helpful for someone like yourself where I don't even know what to call myself. So I wouldn't know what to, what to market myself as. So it's actually far easier to market a short term solution that speaks to the people I would like to work with. And then they don't really care what I call myself once they come in and see what I do and, and can see, oh yeah, I can see how this fits together. You've got your, your uptight people that probably need loosening off a bit with some of the breath work and stuff. And then you've maybe got the opposite side of that. Um, so that's a really good example that people get so caught up on. I need to know who I am and what I am so that I can market myself. And it's like, no, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter what what you are, it, it's, you know, you, you market to people's problems and you help them solve them problems. Now this brings us onto the next chapter, which you are still at the very sort of beginnings of, because. All kind of happened very quickly. This next bit. You weren't really on the lookout for what happened next necessarily. You were at a point where you were looking to move, weren't you, in terms of move where you live, you were looking to move house and this sort of random opportunity came up where you found somewhere in an area that you would like to live, but it also came with the option of taking on a space that could be used to run your business from. And I remember you first mentioning this to me and I immediately looked at it and thought, this has got Carly written all over it. Um, we're, we're, we're getting ready for another big jump. Um, like talk to us about that. Like what happened, how it happened, um, because you are now speaking to me from that space. That's where you are now. Uh, so run us through that.'cause that was another sort of transition and jump that, that happened far more recently. Yeah. As you said, I was just looking to find somewhere else to live, you know, sort of a move house. I was looking at sort of playing it safe again because I've been going through so much transition with business. I was just thinking, I'm gonna play it really safe. Go with something that's very affordable, leaving me lots of excess. Let's just build some savings.'cause having learned. From when I do make changes that sometimes there's ebb and flow and sometimes you find yourself in a dip as you change and one thing doesn't feel quite right before the next thing, um, arrives. So I was just being very cautious and very sensible, um, trying to be sensible. Um, and like I say, I, I didn't quite know how it, it was on one of these search sites, it kind of popped up and just that instant thought was, oh, a breathwork studio and not what it was marketed as. It was just marketed as a flat with office space underneath. And it had a picture of a lovely room, but with, you know, chairs and tables and then things that, you know, said, oh yeah, I thought you've got staff, you'd put your staff here. But I immediately saw it as a really nice room that would feel good to be a breathwork studio. Um, somewhere that would feel really private and, and intimate and the kind of work that I do, you know, because, um, we do get sort of quite into people's lives. They'll share with me some, you know, really sensitive things sometimes, and I want that to be in a safe space. So as soon as I saw that, I thought, oh wow, that would be great. It was absolutely terrifying because it wasn't the safe choice that I was looking for. It was a little bit of a stretch. Um, and it was gonna, you know, challenge me to step up straight away rather than, um, you know, get some sort of quiet time to, you know, rebuild or, you know, build up some extra savings. So I'd feel really safe in whatever next jumper was gonna, you know, do, because I know this is what I do. I just, I was trying to prepare for it bit better. Um, but I think sometimes things just land when they land. And, uh, I just sort of explored it. I thought, well, I'll just go visit and see how it feels'cause this could be a future thing. And it just sort of, as I explored it became more and more real and, you know, just kept running the numbers and looking at the possibilities and thinking, oh, actually it's a lot more doable than what I think. It's, yeah, absolutely. Still gonna require me to. Step up and not mess about and be really real, but it wasn't as impossible as I initially thought when I first saw it. So, uh, yeah. So that was exciting. And that, that was the birth of still space Hull. That's where you are now. Yeah. And at the time of recording, you haven't even done your official like opening get together thing yet. I know you've been, you've been operating out there for a short while now, haven't you? But, um, you, you, you wanna do like an official opening thing sometime soon and Yeah, it's, it's been, it's been really good to see you transition into there and now you've got your own space from which if someone needs to do a little bit of strength work, you can do that in there with them. If they need to lie down on a mat and do some breath work, it feels safe enough to do that sort of stuff as well. You've got complete control of that environment. Um, you can do your, your workshops in there as well, can't you? You can bring in. Small groups of people and work with them. Yeah. You can work alongside other practitioners and let them come in and do stuff. And I think now it feels very much like something that you're building because it aligns with what you do. And it's, it's something that people need, but also it feels like now this could become something that's really part of that community around you. It feels like that's something that could, you know, you, you could link with other places and other businesses, even unrelated ones, um, and, and, and work together. And it just feels like the next right step for you, doesn't it? It feels like it ticks a lot of boxes all in one go. It felt like a really, a really well aligned move. Does, does it still feel like that now? A few months in? Hopefully it's not been a nightmare. Yeah. No. It's gone better than I thought so far. Like I say, it's opens up more possibilities that I wasn't even planning on. I had always said, I, I don't want, I don't want my own facility. I don't wanna be tied down. I'm gonna. Go and do the online thing and work from Bali or something like that. Like as, as, as often the dream is sold in, in that kind of way. Um, but I think what I realized was it wasn't that I didn't want a facility, it was that I didn't want a gym. I thought, well, yeah, that makes sense'cause I don't want a gym and I don't have a gym. Um, so yeah, that actually having this space, um, you do speak to people differently. So different opportunities have come in. I've been found by other companies asking, you know, can they run their, their corporate wellness session, you know, sort of there, or send their, um, their staff, you know, to me as the, the day out. And so that those opportunities have, you know, helped to, to bridge that gap. Um, so it's, you know, I probably do a lot less day-to-day one-to-one work. Um, but again, it's sort of knowing that that sign of success isn't always a full diary back-to-back clients, actually for me. Having, you know, a couple of hours work, an opportunity for rest and a couple more hours work. That kind of flexibility actually really suits me. It probably protects my energy levels and my health and actually can still support me to do my life. And it's actually a lot of fun. Yeah, I do a bit of social media, but it's probably about an hour a week now compared to some crazy five hours a day. I was, um, plugging away at it at one point. Um, but you know, just going out into the community, um, you know, talking about the space, what we do there, it generates a lot of interest. And yeah, that's expanded who I can work with because yeah, I could collaborate with other practitioners. Um, I've hired it out to other people to run their workshops, so when I don't want to be using it, other people have, you know, been able to pay to hire the space, which again, is bringing in some revenue without me really having to do anything. Yeah. Um, so I've got a lot of figuring out to do, but there's, like I said, there's a lot of possibilities there. Um, and yeah, I've been enjoying it. So it's been a lot of fun so far. And, and for me, this is the perfect example of like the, the, the, the phrase that so mis uh, misinterpreted, which is this, this to me is success. This is success in terms of not just a number that you can throw online and say, I earn X amount, or blah, blah, blah. It's not that at all. It's, as you just described there, you know, you're enjoying the work. You get to work with the people that you want to work with. You're doing it from a space that you enjoy being part of. You get to, you know, work alongside other businesses and this sort of stuff. You've, you've found something that, at least for now, for the next chapter, who knows where it goes next after this, Carly, but at least for this chapter is very much a case of. I'm, I'm doing what I want to be doing with people I want to be doing it with, and, and it's, it's providing me with a lot. It's given me a lot of fulfillment, a lot of happiness, and I'm, I'm enjoying that process. There's still challenges, of course, and there's still a lot, lot you have to grow into in that. But that for me is, is almost like the ultimate version of success. It's, you're growing, you're learning, but in a way that you, you want to be doing. And I think, again, this is something that people need to really listen to is this is Kylie's version of success. Um, you don't have to go and co copy Carly and you don't have to copy anyone else, but what you do have to do is go on that same journey that Kylie's been on and, and figure it out. And you have to find that path. It meanders quite a lot. Um, but it's worth it in the end. I, I, I hope you would agree with that, Callie. Hope you'd sort of look at it now and go, yeah, it was worth all that uncertainty and pain along the way. Yeah, definitely. And I think you, you get to, um, take that uncertainty a bit more lightly as you go, as well when you start to realize. You go through these dips, but you do come out the other end, you know, and there's, yeah, there's ways you can protect yourself along the way that you start to learn. So then the dips don't feel so bad. And um, and yeah, and it's just given, using those opportunities and those times that don't always look so good, but actually something tends to, um, come out of it that ends up being better in the end. It's just that little step back to then move forward. Um, so yeah, it's absolutely worth it. Um, definitely don't want to volunteer for any more challenge as such, but I also know I will. I do. And I, I wouldn't like it if it wasn't showing up as well. So, keeps life interesting. Yeah, it does. Yeah. Life is definitely interesting. Now, something we, we, we did kind of touch on this a little bit earlier on, but I just wanna sort of finish with this as a, as a, a bit to unpack.'cause I know it's something a lot of people I speak to struggle with this problem. When you look at all the skills you've acquired, you were a dietician, you were a pt, and all the stuff that comes along with that, even just in the realms of pt. There's the, the exercise stuff, the nutrition stuff. But then there's also all the other things we pick up, like the, the sleep side of things, the lifestyle side of things, the stress kind of kind of things as well. You then get into being breath work practitioner and all these other sorts of things you've now got, which is a, a big advantage. It's a big strength. A whole host of skills and things that you can do and you can help people with. And I speak to lots of other people that end up similar to that. Maybe not in the same way as you, but it might be that the, they're a physio and an SNC coach and they can do this and they can do that. There's lots of variations on this that can be quite overwhelming, can't it? It's difficult to know how do I channel that into something? Um, and I think that what you've been able to do in being brave enough to sort of step out of. A set box and build your own thing is go, well, it doesn't really matter what to call it or what I do because I don't have to belong in this box anymore. The problem people have got is, is when they're trying to stay in the box of, I'm a PT or I'm a physio, or whatever, but I can do all these other things. That's where the tension comes from. So I just wanted to sort of get your opinion on what would your advice be to people who maybe, like yourself have been around a while. They've, they've collect, collected a lot of skills and maybe they're not always directly related to each other. Maybe they are a bit scattered, but you, you find them interesting. You see the links that other people don't. How do you, how do you piece that together as the person that's, that's trying to solve that problem and bring it together and what's it been like for you as an experience? Definitely been a challenge. Um, even just to when you start listing out what you do, it's like, wow, there's a lot there. Um, and again, I think it is just extending those invitations for people to come and try you out. Uh, the challenge there is to try to recognize, you know, is there a common thread of what's generally wanted? Is there a way people would like to feel? Is there a common pitfall, um, that most people find themselves struggling with? So for me, you know, a lot of people just want to know that they're doing the right thing. Um, you know that a lot of them are midlife, a lot of them are really busy. They don't have time almost to make the mistake of going to the wrong practitioner. Um, you know, that they're worried. They'll, they'll go to a certain personal trainer and get injured or they're concerned there. They'll, you know, start a nutrition program that is just a repeat of what they've done in the past. Um, or that they'll, yeah, they'll go and experience something new and it just feel a bit pointless. And what was the point of that? Yeah, so for me it is saying, actually, I can bring you in. We can look at a range of things, you know, your movement, how your nervous system is, what your lifestyle looks like, and then prioritize where should they place their focus. And then that gives them the confidence that the next step they take. Is the right one for the them at that time in the context of who they are. At that point, it's not saying, this is what you do forever, bit like me. It's this next step is the right one. And yes, I do lots of other things. This is the part of the service would be a good place for you to come and start. And having that range of opportunities to offer them. So it's not just saying, right, you need to commit to full coaching with me. Actually, they could come to a breath workshop, they could have some one-to-one breath work, you know, for a certain number of sessions or take a whole journey with that being the main focus. Yeah, they might join, um, the PT that will also include elements of the nutrition, the breath work. I'm not gonna leave anything out if they've just decided to join the full coaching service. Um, but it's just offering those a few different levels of where they can engage. Um, so again, depending on where they're at, what they're prepared to commit to, what they feel ready for. And knowing that actually it is relevant. So again, that's what I've, um, built the embodied strength profile around, is that invitation to that person that wants to save time and energy to make sure that what they do is the right thing for their health, for what they want, and they're not gonna waste the time down some rabbit hole that just leads to loss of time, money, and energy. So, yeah. Good. Good. And I want everyone that's listening to this now to listen back to that two, three minutes of what Kylie just said.'cause if you listen to what she said, you'll get more from that when you actually piece it together than the average five grand mentorship's gonna charge you, right? Listen to what she said. She described her audience. She knows the language, she knows the phrases, she knows the problems, she knows the solutions. She knows her audience. Some of you are paying 500 quid to find out how to develop a niche. She's just, she's just done that in the last few. Go back and listen to it. That's how you should be able to describe who you work with. She's developed a front end offer that speaks to those people. That front end offer acts as an assessment where she can gather a lot of data and a lot of information and understand people's problems. Then what she can do is move straight into what we've spoken about before, which is prescription based selling. She can sell based on diagnosing things that people aren't aware they need help with, and set them on the right path. She'll give them that next step. That next step should kind of feel almost overly simplistic and almost like a little bit underwhelming, which is fine because the last thing we want is people to feel overwhelmed. They get nowhere. So CAR is essentially saying, these are the, this is the journey. We can go on here. These are all the things we can do, but actually where you need to start is, is just right here. You just need to do this next step, and if you can do this next step. Then we can explore what the next step looks like and we'll move you on from there. And that's exactly what Kylie's audience need, and that's exactly what they want to hear. They don't wanna be told, here are the 20 next things you need to do on top of everything else you already do. So not just the marketing, not just the selling, but the actual way that the service is then described and put together is also aligned with the audience. You're not trying to just randomly speak to who you wanna work with and then shoehorn them into a service that isn't right for them, because that's no different than someone trying to keep you in a box. It's like you might do all the fancy marketing bit, and that's cool. I see people actually doing a much better job of that now. But if you're doing the fancy marketing bit and then shoehorning them into a PT service that isn't right for them, good luck. It's not gonna work. You're gonna lose clients. Your retention's gonna be terrible. You're not gonna get referrals. Uh, whereas Carly will get all of those things. So do go back and listen to when she just said that little segment.'cause that right there is the perfect example of someone that's doing all of those steps that take a long time, by the way, to get, get your head around. It's not like you're gonna come up with that four minutes or something, but that's in a perfect example of what a good business looks like when you understand what's going on and the steps involved. So yeah, that a, a star. I'm gonna grade that. Carly, that was very good. That was excellent. We, but we didn't even pre-plan that. That just came outta your mouth. Um, I'm glad we got that recorded. Yeah, I'll be getting you to listen back to it. To go right next time you're doing some marketing. Listen to this. Um, anything else that you want to touch on before we finish? Um, um, I want to respect your time. We've spoke for a while. We know that people like you and I don't have the longest detention spans. Um, anything else to finish off with? Any words of wisdom, any sort of. Things that you can finish off with. Just to reassure people, there's gonna be a lot of people listening to this that maybe are in that uncertain stage right now. Maybe they're just starting out, maybe they've been around a while and don't know what to do next. Maybe they're feeling a bit lost. What would you say to anyone that maybe just needs a little bit of a, a pick up, a little bit of a, not a cheerleader, but someone that can sort of say, you know, come on, you can do this. What would you say to them? Yeah, I think it's not being afraid to slow down. I think there's a lot of push towards fast growth and that next step. And yeah, I've definitely been guilty of constant pushing, but I think if you can just take a moment to sit with what is feeling right and being really honest with yourself, that's probably when you'll come up with the goals, that'll grow the business in the right way. I think you can go very quickly in the wrong direction. So actually taking a moment, um, and being able to tell the difference between procrastination and taking a moment to evaluate, I think deep down. You know, which one you're doing. So, um, yeah, just don't be afraid to, to take those bits of time out and really be super honest and yeah, just taking it step by step really. Yeah. Good. That procrastination piece I think is important because something I've noticed over the years, and again, I've spoken about this, is we can actually, um, hide behind learning as a form of procrastination. We can try and just consume loads of stuff and take on another course and another qualification. And it's almost like a form of not doing what you said, which is actually slow down, step back, ask yourself the question. It's another format of just pushing and pushing and pushing, isn't it? Um, we've all done that. I've done that. I know you've probably done that at times. I've certainly done it. Um, and again, it's almost just that awareness of even if it's something that I'm doing that. Is positive and feels like it should be positive. Is it still the right thing? Is it actually what I need right now, or do I just need to slow down, step back and just almost just take a look at the landscape to see what, what's going on here? Where, where am I, I go next. So yeah, that procrastination piece important. Uh, thank you very much for coming on today, Carly. It's been an absolute pleasure. I've absolutely loved that. Um, pleasure to work with and it's great to see that journey that you've been on. It's been quite nice to reflect on it, actually. It's been quite a meandering one. Um, so yeah, if anyone wants to find out a little bit more about you still space, if they wanna maybe just ask you a question because they're a bit stuck and maybe they want the insight of someone like yourself, where's, where's the best place for people to go and find you if they wanna, wanna reach out to you at all. Yeah, I've got a concept form on my website still, space hall.com. They can find me on Instagram and the Strong Bones coach on there because I'm still figuring out what my new name may or may not be. Um, but yeah, the best way is to get in contact with me. Yeah. Brilliant. Thank you very much for coming on Carly.