Adapt. Lead. Succeed: Lynn Campbell at Sky on Driving Change in Tech

Join Lynn Campbell, Director of Assisted Customer Experience at Sky, as she shares her inspiring journey from an anatomy degree to tech leadership. Learn how adaptability and continuous learning shaped her path, including milestones like returning to work after maternity leave and enriching her career through counseling.

Lynn delves into digital transformation projects like billing migrations and launching Sky Glass during the pandemic, highlighting team motivation, clear communication, and AI’s role in customer experiences. She also discusses talent recruitment, the value of apprenticeships, and fostering diversity. Perfect for anyone navigating tech’s fast-paced world, this episode is packed with insights on embracing change and leveraging strengths.

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Transcript

Speaker 1 0:06

Welcome to our podcast being a Digital Leader the good, bad and ugly of digital transformation. On today's podcast, we are thrilled to welcome Lynn Campbell, director of Assisted Customer Experience at Sky. Lynn joins us to share her journey in the world of technology and her 18-year career at Sky, where she started as a test analyst to her current role as Assisted Customer Experience Director. Welcome to the podcast, lynn. Before we jump in, please introduce yourself and your role.

Speaker 2 0:29

Thank you, simon. So I have been at Sky for 18 years. I'm currently the Director of Customer Experience for our SISI channels and what that means is we look after channels that are people-used within Sky. So if a customer phones up, look after channels that are people use within Sky. So if customer phones up and the systems that those people use are the the ones that we look after in our team so big team of UX and UI designers within that, as well as customer journey leads. But where I started in my career was very different. So I started as a graduate all those 18 years ago. I had a degree in anatomy, so computing some field of technology wasn't on the cards at all, but I got contacted by someone from Sky through monsterjobscom.

Speaker 2 1:19

Wow, yep, remember that that was like way back in the day I didn't really know what I was applying for, to be honest, as part of that, and I went along to the interviews we done face-to-face presentations and out of there was hundreds that had been told that had applied for it, and out of all of those there was myself and four other people that joined that were males. So that was a really interesting start to my career as being a test analyst. I've moved to different positions, such as being an analyst.

Speaker 2 1:48

I actually applied for that when I was on maternity leave, so that was quite a big thing for me coming back after being on maternity leave to go into a completely different job. And then I've looked after engineering teams, which gave me a completely different spectrum of understanding in terms of the world of technology, and then I moved into portfolio delivery, which was really good as well. I guess all of these roles have really helped me move forward towards the role that I'm doing today.

Speaker 1 2:15

Wow, what a journey. So 18 years. You must have seen a lot in terms of how Sky has transformed overall and digitally over that time. What has that meant for you personally and professionally?

Speaker 2 2:26

Yeah. So if I think back to those 18 years ago, sky didn't do line rental at the time, so that was the first time the project that I worked on was introducing wholesale line rental, so that is like huge compared to where we are just now.

Speaker 2 2:41

So, if you think about the evolution of just the products and the services, we've moved from um quite an old systems to to new kind of um systems across, like I've mentioned, our contact centers, but we also have retail stores, we have our websites, we have our app. We didn't have all of that 18 years ago. So, in terms of professionally, it's just the evolution of products and services and the technology behind it. If we didn't have that technology, we wouldn't be able to support those things today Some massive shifts in terms of where we've came from.

Speaker 2 3:13

Personally, being involved in all of that, that's been a massive experience for me, because I've learned so much about our business. I've learned so much about technology as part of that as well. We're always introducing new ways to do things. So new technology and you have to adapt and be flexible to that. So I think that's a big thing for me professionally is you get a new project, a new product, new service that we need to get out there into the market. You need to think about how you're going to approach that every time and for me me that's really helped in terms of all these different roles. I've seen them from different lenses, which is, I guess, gave me that kind of backbone foundation to where I am today.

Speaker 1 3:54

That's a hell of an 18 years in terms of what Sky was like when you started to where it is now. It's fascinating. So you've risen through the ranks at Sky, which is, as you said, starting as a test analyst, which is very impressive. Are there any particular key moments or decisions that you think helped shape that career path?

Speaker 2 4:12

So the one thing I would always say is I try and push myself out there a bit, especially what I've just mentioned about going on maternity leave that was a huge thing because I absolutely love tests. About going on maternity leave that was a huge thing because I absolutely loved tests. I remember, like it was one of the projects that we worked on, like getting up really early to go and test stuff and run batch processes and things like that. So it was kind of like almost like a hobby as well. I really, really enjoyed it. I know that's sad to say.

Speaker 1 4:37

Was anyone else getting up early to do the tests? I don't know, maybe just me.

Speaker 2 4:46

But I did. I absolutely loved it and at that point I thought, okay, what's next, what's the next thing? And that's when I chose to move into analysis. It gave me, as I say, a different perspective. But I think it's just always checking in where I am and am I still learning? So if I'm not learning, then it's like, okay, what's next? And I think that's the thing that I always think about through my career is is there anything that, um, I could do more of? Um, so I don't think that's the thing that I always think about through my career is is there anything that I could do more of? So I don't think there's a certain key high, like I can't think about moments and times other than just always checking in with myself.

Speaker 2 5:15

And maybe as part of that, a good few years ago, about five years ago, I decided to do a bit of exploration into what counselling was. So I went on a weekend course because I felt like I wouldn't be able to progress if I didn't change what was going on for me internally. I really struggled going into meetings with senior people. I didn't have a voice, so I found it really hard to speak up. So I decided to go on this journey where I became a counsellor, so I'm also a qualified counsellor and, as part of that, that's really helped me where I am at just now in terms of personally and being able to apply that as I am in the work environment as well.

Speaker 1 6:01

Wow, I'm having a reflection on how much I need to do about myself to try and live up to that. Very impressive. So could I maybe that leads on to. I mean, tech is still although I hope and I do feel it's changing to a certain extent, it's still quite a male-dominated industry, and you've you've risen to being a director, which, after starting as the only woman on your team, as you said. What's your experience of that journey and and how, what kind of support is sky given in that space?

Speaker 2 6:31

so it's interesting because it's something that maybe I didn't reflect on as much. I just thought that was the norm. I suppose that is that was the norm. Um, and being the only person within that that kind of space at the time, I think what I know noticed personally is I doubted myself quite a lot because, as I mentioned earlier, my degree was in anatomy, it wasn't computing science, and most of the people that joined me at the same time had already been through computing science degrees, so I think I always kind of felt that was lesser than them. But I think in terms of what support was there? So Sky's been fantastic in terms of women in tech leadership, all those types of forums that bring people together, that help share experiences, and I think that's one thing definitely I've noticed about Sky is just how we've evolved.

Speaker 2 7:23

So, maybe back 18 years ago, there wasn't many female leaders that you could look up to, and when I was reflecting about female and the diversity, inclusion and where we are at Sky, actually more than 50% of my line managers has been female which is amazing actually, if you think about technology and the male dominance, um, I think we still got room there, yeah, um, but definitely if I look at now our leadership and our executives and, um, can I cross the board in sky, you see more and more female leaders, um, which is great to see, and I think that's only in terms of how they've really approached it and really honed into. How do we change the way that kind of environment, the diversity that we bring to the company?

Speaker 1 8:09

And when we were chatting earlier you were mentioning the jump to director is quite a significant one and a challenging one. Can you just kind of expand a bit on what support was put around that and how that was helpful?

Speaker 2 8:22

Yeah, so there's stats around about it in terms of people who are in a head of position who are female um, only a very, very small percentage move to the director role internally.

Speaker 2 8:37

So anybody that's that moves from those roles is generally males or it's external people coming in to the company um and one of the the well, the person who kind of runs the diversity inclusion um within sky, put a forum around about it to bring the heads off for women to come together, share experiences. There's loads of great experiences as part of that um. Those sessions things like how do you adapt your cv, what does a cv look like for somebody who's a director? Or maybe looking at c level um, and there was just so much great insight that you could take and apply and, interestingly, those those sessions helped me then think about my cv when I applied for the director also. They were, they were really, really helpful and bringing that network together and I think that's what's key and that's what Sky does really well is form networks of people that can come together and talk through their experiences to help one another.

Speaker 1 9:34

That's really powerful and who's the first person who's successfully kind of gone through that process? Nin.

Speaker 2 9:39

I am For what it was. Yeah, just checking.

Speaker 1 9:42

Well, congratulations. That is very impressive. Changing tax liability. You've been involved in some massive projects at Sky. What are any particular significant challenges or successes that stand out for you along those?

Speaker 2 9:55

Yeah, there's probably two main ones that come to mind for various reasons. So the first one was a good few years ago now, but we had to migrate our billing system and our billing system.

Speaker 1 10:10

Pretty important.

Transforming People, Processes, and Technology

Speaker 2 10:11

Yes, really really, really important that we bill our customers correctly and we bill for billions every year. So we spent a long time in terms of managing kind of that migration process. I say a long time, it wasn't like years and years and years, but it was really really important and we had a lot of challenges in that project, just from the sheer volume of work that we had to get through. There was nothing documented really in terms of like requirements and things like that. So we had to do that as part of our role, as well as the people that we had, and so I was test at that point, so we were test in the billing system and we had to employ quite a large number of people to help us with that.

Speaker 2 10:58

All new, all didn't have experience. So that kind of came to kind of key people in the team to be able to help and support our testers. And I remember that we were a number of months away. But there was a lot of demotivated people because we weren't getting through what we needed to get through and we made a decision actually let's look at the stuff that are maybe lower value to bring that motivation so they can get through the testing and start to feel like they're actually get some wins under the belt exactly.

Speaker 2 11:29

Exactly, and that changed the dynamic, completely shifted the mindset. People were much more motivated, to the point that we managed to finish all what we had to do, from a testing point of view, two weeks ahead of schedule, which is Not usual Not usual definitely not usual and we done the cutover, the migration, and celebrated when we done that and there was no issues, which is fantastic. That is very impressive. What about?

Speaker 1 11:54

Skyglass.

Speaker 2 11:56

Skyglass yes, that's the other one that I'd say was a key moment, and the reason being that we were doing that during COVID. So we had to all switch to being online, working through quite a large backlog to be able to deliver Skyglass. And we did it, and it was such a great feeling after being on the project for a number of years and being able to deliver that because it wasn't just Skyglass. It's a great product. Sky thought of something different, but also it's a streaming service. So, if we think about technology and your original question of how you've seen it evolve I guess that's another one is we've now introduced a streaming service so you don't need the satellite dish to be able to watch Sky, which opens up a whole new market for people to consume the content.

Speaker 1 12:45

Yeah, very different to the TVs. I remember when I was a young man. So the podcast is called the Good, the Bad and the Ugly of Digital Transformation, so I'd love to hear your reflections on those three. So kind of a key success in leading transformation, a time when you had to kind of rethink or kind of pause and kind of do something different. And sometimes when an occasion when you maybe had to abandon something and actually say stop, let's pause it here.

Speaker 2 13:08

Yeah, so the good side of it, I think that's where we've we People, process and technology and, to answer that question, it's about the people. I think we were on a journey in terms of how do we become more agile in the way that we work, and we had to change the way that we worked with our development team. So we were quite separate. So we had people who would work in analysis and then people who'd work in development and they would sit on different floors. They would hand over documentation and things like that. So to actually get the best and be able to deliver change quicker and achieve those business outcomes and to a market with more speed, we had to think about how we work together. So there was a lot in terms of how we transformed the way we work. Things simple, things like using JIRA tools like that.

Speaker 2 13:59

An analyst didn't use that. So we implemented that process. We thought about how we broke down work in order to deliver those MVP outcomes, how we prioritise work. So just back to the question about abandonment there'll be many times that we've looked at something and went that's not priority just now. So if you take a step back, you're thinking about what's the outcome that we're actually trying to achieve at this point and sometimes we have to abandon something at that point and then move on to what's actually important. So I think it's always rethinking, taking a step back and going is this important for our business and our customers and our people? And then reprioritising what we need to do.

Speaker 1 14:37

It's a brave decision, though, isn't it to kind of pause something or stop something?

Speaker 2 14:40

Yeah, but you always have to think about what's the right decision.

Speaker 1 14:43

Categorically agree. Yeah. And in terms of the people side, which I think is a relatively consistent theme in these podcasts. It is the foundation, fundamentally. Did most people lean into that kind of move to Agile, or were they scared of it initially? Um, how did that kind?

Speaker 2 15:01

of unfold. Yeah, I think there is always a a fear of change in people. I think that's human nature, but everybody that I've worked with has leaned into it. As long as you're clear yep, and why you're doing it and where you're going, I think people then are happy to move with that change. I think when it becomes unclear, that's when people maybe get a bit distant from it, unsure.

Speaker 1 15:26

Another consistent theme comms.

Speaker 2 15:27

Yes.

Speaker 1 15:28

And articulating what the intent is. Yeah, so you're leading the Assisted Customer Experience team. What's the biggest challenge in that space over the next few years, do you think?

Speaker 2 15:39

Yeah, I think, as technology moves, we need to keep up to pace. We need to keep up to pace on what our customers' wants needs are. So I think it's always been that one step ahead and thinking about how can we use the technology to be able to provide the best experience. But also thinking about things like like ai obviously is everywhere just now, but we have to think about how do we use that in a way that is actually helpful for our customers. Rather than just implementing something it needs to, we need to think about how that shows up for our customers yeah, it's very easy.

Speaker 1 16:12

As you say, it's a very, very hot topic over the last year, two years yeah but how do you actually utilize it effectively and safely, I suppose, uh, and in a cost-effective way, in order to kind of derive value for them?

Speaker 2 16:24

definitely, and I think that's it. The how do you use it in an ethical way, I think is really really key for customer experience.

Speaker 1 16:32

Yeah yeah, when you kind of obviously sky's got a massive customer base and you've talked about how you support them, how do you actually understand what they want, what they need, what their feedback is, so you can respond to that?

Speaker 2 16:44

Yes. So we've got loads of teams who do great research. So we go out and ask our customers what they need from us. We do loads of analysis in terms of that feedback, so we understand pain points and we understand what's going well. So it's going out to our customers. I think also, what we do is we look outside, so we look at what is everybody else doing out there. Another thing that I'm going through just now is I'm doing a diploma in CX.

Speaker 1 17:19

I wish I hadn't asked this question now. Go on, lynn. You're a spare five minutes. You're doing a diploma? Yep, go on.

Speaker 2 17:27

And so, for me, doing the CX diploma has given me loads of information and insight that I would not necessarily have had beforehand, so I think that's helping me personally, whilst I help in terms of the CX within Sky.

Speaker 1 17:40

Amazing. How often are you surprised by the pain points or the or the feedback from the customers? Or is it? Is it just? Typically it reinforces what you thought already.

Speaker 2 17:51

Yeah, some sometimes it's a surprise. So if you definitely look at things like um complaints data, you really hear how hard it is for customers at times, um, and I think it just hits in that empathy side. It's um, because everybody's a real person at the end of the day, and I think that's what we need to really um, make sure we hone in, and this is a person, um that needs support and are we serving them the best that we can.

Speaker 1 18:19

Going back to the people side. So I mean, we've talked. We said talent is critical. What's your reflection? What are your reflections on how you attract and then retain great talent?

Speaker 2 18:29

I guess throughout the years there's been different approaches and I think we've evolved. So it's not just people applying on monster jobs and things that are indeed, but what I've noticed is there's a market out there that we look at. How do we bring in not only graduates but apprentices, so that's people who come in from school effectively. They don't go to uni, they go from school into the working environment and that really helps some people, because uni isn't for everybody. So, and what I've actually noticed is the people that do come in from school really work hard. They really really do work hard and they're amazing at coming in and learning about the job.

Speaker 2 19:15

So I think it's thinking about casting that net wider. So thinking about diversity, inclusion how do we get into areas where they've not got a majority, so the minority of people? How do we make opportunities available for them Instead of just being where it was probably 18 years ago that you're going for a certain market. How do we open that up? So I think there's there's loads of great stuff that we've done within Sky in terms of actually attracting people and then retaining them and everybody that I speak to when you ask why, why do you stay? Why are you here sort of everything, and it's always about love. The people love what we do and I think that's really important as a brand, that we're continuously always evolving that brand and that's what people can latch on to.

Speaker 1 20:08

One of my pet key thoughts of mine is apprenticeships are so powerful. I've got a 17 year old daughter. Well, she's 17 on Sunday. I think your son is 19 today and he's doing an apprenticeship, isn't he? Yeah? Is he enjoying it?

Speaker 2 20:23

yeah, yeah, and I think that's it. Um for my son he he stayed on at school to six year. Um, he did go through the period where um like through Covid and things like that, so I did think that had an impact. But when he reached about fifth, sixth year, I noticed a change in him. He wasn't really connecting with school anymore. I think it was do what you need to do and then it'll be leaving.

Speaker 2 20:49

And now he's got this apprenticeship, which is fantastic. It's something that he was really keen on in terms of he wanted to go into engineering not software engineering, more electrical engineering engineering but what his feedback has been is actually this has helped me a lot because I'm learning so much more. It's the right environment for me and I think because like he's getting paid while he's learning is a huge thing. I don't think he'd be motivated otherwise, but he really puts in the hard work and that's what I definitely see with apprenticeships that I've worked with in the past as well, as they come in and they do the best job that they can yeah, that's awesome, and happy birthday to him.

Speaker 1 21:26

Yeah, thank you, lynn. I'm sure you've been given lots of pieces of advice along the way. Is there any particular piece of advice that's really resonated with you which you then replayed to others?

Speaker 2 21:36

it wasn't that long ago, actually, I got this piece of advice and it was don't focus on your weaknesses, focus on your strengths boom building on that.

Speaker 1 21:44

So what advice would you give to someone wanting to get into a career in tech? Um, particularly as we've just spoken about kind of how fast moving it is in terms of ai's come in, you know, all those other bits and pieces what would your kind of advice be to them?

Speaker 2 21:56

yeah, I think, um, as long as you're willing to adapt, um and learn. I think that those two are the key points. For me is that it is going to be fast paced. It's never going to be certain, so you're always going to have to be in that uncomfortable space that you're not always going to know. But I think, coming in with an open mind and, yeah, just being flexible, adapting, willing to take on challenges as well, because I think that's a big thing we're working in technology is a lot of times you're solving problems. So, if you're coming with that mindset, I think any job that you you do within technology, whether that's writing the code, whether that's testing it, where, like I think, um, you pick those up, it's more the softer skills I think are really, really key yeah, definitely, and it maybe dawned on me slightly later than it should have done, but change is constant, isn't it?

Speaker 1 22:50

you know kind of we talk about. Yeah, I used to talk about lots of programs we were doing and then going okay, when we get to end the program, then we can all draw breath no, next one comes, the next one.

Speaker 2 22:58

Yeah, it's just constant, isn't it? So as long as you embrace.

Speaker 1 23:00

Once you accept that, embrace it, you can kind of crack on can't you? So we have. And titles in digital. Um, I was going to say my ones and rugby nut, but the england rugby team are not doing particularly well, so I'm going to brush through that quickly and ask what your antitale would be and why so my antitale would be busy bee. Okay.

Speaker 2 23:20

And I think that just sums up me personally, because I always crave to learn, I always want to do more. I can never sit for five minutes, I always have to be on the go, and for a long time it would be. People would say to me Lynn, you just need to slow down, just slow down, lynn, just slow down, you need to relax. I couldn't think of anything worse. If somebody says to me go on a desert island and do nothing, that would be Not good, not even for a week.

Speaker 1 23:50

What?

Speaker 2 23:50

about a week, maybe 10 minutes, um, but I just I have to keep going, I have to. And do you know what that's? What I've learned about myself is it's okay, that's who I am and I don't need to change that. Um, I enjoy learning, I enjoy being busy. Um, I don't need to balance that because it could tip over the other the other way and lead to burnout. But, um, I'm much more aware of that now in myself and I'm accepting that's who I am. I'm a busy bee.

Speaker 1 24:17

Very good. Good one, and you're right, you have to accept who you are, aren't you? You can't, and embrace it. So, kind of looking forward over the next three to five years, what do you think Sky and all the industry is going to see over over that period?

Speaker 2 24:30

Yeah, I think we kind of touched on the subject of AI. I think that's going to be a massive influence across the industry. If I think about it in terms of serving our customers as well, personalisation is a huge thing we need to think about. How do we tailor the needs for our customers? So I think that's going to be key in, maybe, how we use AI and personalisation.

Speaker 2 24:57

Also, as a consumer myself, you're always wanting quick answers. You're always wanting things done quickly. So there's probably an element of how do we support, or how do our businesses support, our customers in terms of doing the things that are the easy things that we can take off, kind of maybe our contact centres, for example and how do we support with more complex tasks? So how do we support customers with the things that maybe they can't do through AI and things like that? So I think there's various different things that are on the horizon that we can look forward to to be able to then support that kind of fast-paced change as consumers, our expectations are so high compared to maybe 10 years ago.

Speaker 1 25:42

Yeah, you know, and now we expect a level of service and, you know, access to information and personalization unimaginable kind of maybe 10 years ago.

Speaker 2 25:50

Well, if you think about, like if you go on a website, you were to troll through loads of web pages to find an answer, you would quickly find it, and I think that's the sort of stuff that we can start to offer, um, as we can evolve our practices so just to kind of wrap it up then, there is many different things you've said over the last kind of uh, the last half an hour.

Speaker 1 26:11

Thank you. What do you think is the kind of one key takeaway from your story for the listeners in terms of us being a digital leader? Hard to sum it up.

Speaker 2 26:19

I know there's so many things that come to mind.

Speaker 1 26:21

I'll give you two. You can have two.

Speaker 2 26:23

I would say there's no wrong path for a career in technology. I have been in many different roles and I think being accepting of yourself and your journey, yeah both very profound points, thank you.

Speaker 1 26:39

I know there is no straight line, is there, yeah, and you've got to just take everything you can for whatever opportunities in front of you yeah yeah, I'm still working on the accepting of myself, but I think you nailed it there brilliant.

Speaker 1 26:51

Thank you. So that is uh everything for this edition of the good, the bad and the ugly of digital transformation podcast. Thank you again to our guest lynn. Really uh great to have you on. Thank you, if you enjoyed this episode, please follow or subscribe so you'll always know when there's a new episode to enjoy.