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The Business Lounge Podcast with Kim & Chris
Welcome to The Business Lounge Podcast! Each week we'll share proven marketing strategies to help you build an audience of buyers, create impactful content, and grow a profitable business without compromising on your values with your host, Kimberly Ann Jimenez!
Kim is an Online Marketing Strategist, Educator, Founder and Thought Leader in the online marketing industry.
Having worked with 33K+ small business owners & entrepreneurs across an array of industries over the past decade, Kimberly and her business partner Chris Michael Harris are obsessed with helping you level up your marketing game, and grow your bottom line.
They co-lead their flagship program, The Business Lounge, which teaches business owners & entrepreneurs like you how to navigate the confusing & often overwhelming world of online marketing and build an unapologetically profitable business on your own terms (and without compromising your faith, your family or your freedom).
Join us at thebusinesslounge.co
The Business Lounge Podcast with Kim & Chris
2025 Creator Economy Report: Trust, Getting Canceled, and the Future of Online Businesses
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The creator economy is shifting fast—are you ready? In this episode, we unpack Kajabi’s 2025 Creator Commerce Report and reveal why owning your platform, products, and audience is the key to long-term success. From rising podcast profits to the fall of passive products, we’re diving into what’s working now and how to future-proof your online business.
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The Perfect Storm in Digital Media
Speaker 1We're having the perfect storm in digital right now . Where consumption is up , trust is low and therefore people are actively looking for small business owners and independent creators to consume content from .
Speaker 2Because now it's never been more important than ever to create content on the internet .
Speaker 1Y'all speed , like this season is all about going faster and content consumption is here and we need to capitalize on that window .
Speaker 2People absolutely would have given an arm and a leg to be able to do what you have the opportunity to do right now by just turning on your silly phone and hitting record or creating something on Canva for free and posting it on the internet Like it's unbelievable , and then we lose sight of that .
Speaker 1I think content creators are going to take over the online business space if we don't get smart and savvy about how we market our businesses online . What's up , Amelia ? It's Kim and Chris . And you're listening to the Business Lounge Podcast .
Speaker 2In each episode , we'll break down all the latest in online marketing , give you all the deets on what's working now to turn your content into customers , boost your leads and sales and scale your business fast .
Speaker 1All without compromising on what you care about most faith , family and freedom . And listen , it's all real , raw and unfiltered . So let's start the show . Welcome back to the Business Lounge Podcast . I'm your host , kimberly Ann Jimenez , and I got Chris here in the house , as always in this new season , which we're super excited to jump in . But , guys , today we're going to talk about Kajabi's 2025 Creator Commerce Report .
Speaker 2Commerce , we're in commerce , we're in the business . It's been a long day y'all .
Speaker 1Oh my gosh .
Speaker 2The business of commerce .
Speaker 1We've been filming all day . We've been filming all day .
Speaker 2We have been filming all day .
Speaker 1All week really . But , I'm sorry Creator Commerce Report , and I think it's really interesting , as online business owners , to look at what is changing , what is trending in the creator space , because , of course , we share the content creation aspect with creators , and so there's some really interesting insights about how so many surprise , surprise , so many of the creators are actually starting businesses . They're turning into CEOs .
Speaker 2Imagine that , imagine that , imagine you actually have to do business to make money on the internet Surprise , surprise .
Speaker 1I love that meme . Yeah , anyway , you guys know what we're talking about we'll have to have bell out of here because it's just too funny , um , no , but it's gonna be a good one . Um , we're gonna go into insights , takeaways , things that I think apply to us , that we need to be ready for as we shift into this new era of content creation which I'm super pumped about , are you ?
Speaker 2right , yeah , yeah .
Speaker 1Yeah , yeah , you're pumped . You're like , yeah , pumped , all right . But before we get into it , I think we need to do a little bit of a little bit of banter and we can have everyone just fast forward through the chapter markers if they don't want to hear this part . But what have you been up to ?
Speaker 2Everybody just went to the description . I know what have I been up to .
Speaker 2Not our , not our super fans , though this is for the super fans it's funny because we actually will do , uh like teachable content right and we're like , and we feel really good about it , we're like nailed it , like you know you have your days where you just feel like , whatever it is that you do , you know you obviously want to bring your best , bring your a game , and sometimes you feel like you do that and you can like hang your hat with you know , with pride , that day right , and so a couple times we had that happen at the end of the session , after like a two-hour session . We're like delirious , like our brains are mush yeah and kim's saying things like commas commas but anyway .
Speaker 2So we'll like . The last time , kim , you know , was digging into having me talk a little bit about some of my journey through entrepreneurship and you know , whatever , and it was crazy because I feel like they enjoyed that part more , more .
Speaker 2I know which was , which was flattering , and I appreciate that they like they care about who we are as humans , right , but at the same time I'm like but the whole , like two hour , that should have been the thing you're like . That was amazing , but that was fun at the end as well and it was like no , that was the thing we were there for .
Speaker 1Like more of this they like the goss , they just do yeah , the women love the goss but even the guys were , they were , yeah , don't let don't get it twisted . Guys love the goss listen , you guys like the goss in a different way , in a different way , chris watches wrestling pro wrestling and oh my gosh , it's all drama , nonsense it's it's . It's literally like a soap opera for men it is , yeah , it is at the end of the day , it's live action improv . Everyone loves stories .
Speaker 2With drama , with like a soap opera twist .
Speaker 1But it's like violence and aggression and yes , I know it's not real , leave me alone . Leave me alone . Star Wars isn't real either .
Speaker 2Put your freaking Jedi crap in the closet . Leave me alone .
Speaker 1I like both . You like Star Wars , you're a Star Wars fan , but the people that make fun of me the most .
Speaker 2About that are the same nerds , which I'm a nerd too , so I get it , but like wrestling . But then literally they're out for the premiere of Star Wars at midnight having lightsaber battles , one Sith and one Jedi , and it's like you're for real telling me that pro wrestling isn't real . Yeah , but it's more real than this . Humans are actually falling . They're actually doing this .
Speaker 1You already saw the button right . If you ever want to trigger Chris , just talk about how pro wrestling is not real .
Speaker 2There's many I'm very aware of this scripted . So is the opera .
Speaker 1Oh , we're still on it . We're still going to keep going down the slide . No , we went to an ice skating show on a cruise ship two weeks ago and it was obviously not .
Speaker 2It was very choreographed .
Speaker 1We're going to continue . It doesn't mean that .
Speaker 2I don't enjoy or appreciate the athleticism that's required to be able to do those things .
Speaker 1All right , all right , we get it .
Speaker 2Go to the circus .
Speaker 1Go to .
Speaker 2Cirque du Soleil , it's all the same .
Speaker 1What have you been up ? To fighting with people over whether wrestling is real or not .
Speaker 2That's where I spend the majority of it . Go find me on Twitter . I'm wrestling , okay , but honestly , it's still real to me .
Speaker 1For real . For real , though , We've been filming all week .
Speaker 2We've been filming Y'all this is crazy .
Speaker 1I mean we got four episodes done , live training , plus our YouTube channel videos .
Speaker 2It's a content week I feel like my face is less red in this episode I know it is .
Speaker 1We've been having uh , I don't .
Speaker 2We'll have to talk about it's a whole story .
Speaker 1But our members know .
Speaker 2Our members know for sure but we had to leave an old place we were living because they found a construction issue , massive mold situation . It was a disaster . Guys totally actually moved . And then the new place we went to some crazy lady put glade like plugins everywhere . You know the little , the little plugins to make your house it smells good . And it's like yeah , but it also murders you Like it's got formaldehyde in it and it's all kind of toxic , yeah , all kinds of toxins and I don't do well , like I can't .
Speaker 2I was the kid that like went through the JC Penney like perfume and I'm like oh , would make me have a like a headache reaction , and so for me being here , man , my fate . I've literally been like captain red face . Oh , it's been terrible , it's been really we'll have to do .
Speaker 1We need to . Let's make that the next episode . Just like y'all , you guys need to hear our story about mold it's been a wilderness season .
Speaker 2Man , the devil is on the move , yeah , so god is chris got crazy allergies in this place .
Speaker 1I was like I felt like I was gonna die in our previous place because we had mold everywhere um . I think chalene johnson was just talking about this she had this in her rental in miami as well . It's a big problem yeah , it's crazy , but we ended up renting a super nice place while we figure out , like , where we want to build and , uh , brand new , brand new construction and happens to have like crazy malls but it made me extremely .
Speaker 2Both places , both places , yeah well , I mean , obviously she did this in the glade , but the that motion happened at a very new house like that .
Speaker 1That's crazy so our titus , our puppy , um ? He's not a puppy
Content's Evolution and Creator Economy
Speaker 1, he's , he's 14 14 almost died . It was just crazy . But we'll have to tell you guys that story later . But that's been our life . It's been content team training . We just got back from a cruise 10-year anniversary . That was amazing .
Speaker 2Yeah .
Speaker 1That was super fun .
Speaker 2How many cruise ? So this is the thing . There are cruise people and there's people that are like ew , the cruise people .
Speaker 1But if you're a cruise person , I'm a cruise junkie , it's so much dopamine .
Speaker 2It's amazing , it's dopamine all the time it's every hour of the day there's something legit y'all .
Speaker 1We had go do so much fun that we crashed the last two days yeah , absolutely , and it was my five-day cruise I was like oh my gosh , we went at it way too hard .
Speaker 219 year old chris would be so disappointed right now .
Speaker 1But but 19 year old chris also slept all day that's true so there's part of like that for the night I lived for the night it was pre-jesus days sleep till .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah , yeah anyway .
Speaker 1So that's what we've been up to . It's been fun , yeah , and I think that part of like why we're so hyped about content right now is just this this podcast is is awesome . I'm I'm really loving , like , the new format . I don't know , I think we've been doing it a certain way for a long time and maybe it'll piss off people , I don't know but I , we're gonna find out .
Speaker 2We already found out by now yeah , because I think we're thinking of like , just batch releasing these right yeah , so we've already recorded several and , like we haven't released the first one at the time , we're recording this one , and so it's like we'll see .
Speaker 1We may have already gotten slaughtered online .
Speaker 2By now .
Speaker 1We're like we're not even gonna release this one no , we haven't said anything regardless , it's gonna be like no one watches it , or or a lot of people watch it , we'll see . I , you were guys like this is just a little thing to like bridge into content anyway . But , um , we were looking at , as we were thinking of the podcast , I was like , oh , we need to have like a little intro that's visual , kind of like . You know , rogan's like train by day , joe rogan , all night , all day and he died . Chris died laughing that I knew that yeah , because I don't listen as much to the .
Speaker 2She's not a brogan yeah , I call he should . He should trademark it the brogan's . It's the rogan fans , I know , but it's it's such a good show I watch the interviews that I like . Some people don't like him now , but they can get over it .
Speaker 1Get over it immediately , anyway , so he . It's so funny . I love how low quality those first episodes were .
Speaker 2So bad .
Speaker 1I mean , it was so brutal , you guys . I watched there's three people on the camera . They were like simulcasting . Yeah , um , it was like zoom skype , it's skype .
Speaker 2So skype with video rip pour some . I know poor skype pour some . Liquor for skype , but some non-alcoholic liquor non-alcoholic liquor .
Speaker 1Is that what we're doing ? Oh gosh , so anyway . Uh , super low quality and it was wild to say like one of the guys got up and like I could see his butt crack when the show finished .
Speaker 2Joey joey diaz . Yeah , I was like what is happening ? I mean not that any butt crack is pleasant , but definitely not joey . But regardless .
Speaker 1the point is , of course , you have to hone in on that . One thing I said it was nasty . It's awesome to see people's start before you just see where they're at right now , and I think sometimes we just compare ourselves so much with the content game and creating content and living up to the influencer status or the content creator status as small business owners , where that's not our whole thing .
Speaker 2For Joe , this started as a side gig , like a side hustle and it took years and years and years before it . Actually I don't think he wanted it or intended , it just happened . I just want to talk to my friends . Because he got the idea from Tom Green who was doing it as like a spoof and he made it look like a janky talk show .
Speaker 1Uh-oh , we're getting the whole nerd background background . I love it yeah .
Speaker 2And then rogan's like well , I'd be cool . He told him at the time , if you go watch , it's really interesting . But he's like dude , you're all like you got something here . And tom green was like , yeah , I don't know , I'm just because tom green's just tom green . You know , I don't remember him or not but comedian like 20 years ago .
Speaker 2He's like a big deal and then for him it was just a spoof , it was just a gag and then , but the whole time rogan's like fascinated . He's like you could see the light bulbs were going off .
Speaker 1Yeah .
Speaker 2And then some of the episodes where he started doing like in person they had like a camera . It was like they had a camera like in the corner of a place .
Speaker 1What were they thinking ? And then ?
Speaker 2there was like a pony wall , I know , and then it's like rolling half of his head , I know , and you could just see like the top of his head . So the Skype was actually an improvement over is so awesome and that's how it got its start . So we got to get out of our own way . I know we have some .
Speaker 2You know we have a lot of females it's marketing so we have a lot of females , that that are attracted to a lot of what we do and content wise , what have you , um , but a lot of perfectionism amongst the females ? For sure less amongst the men , the bro case in point like a rogue and they're like , whatever it is what it is yeah and we're bad about that , we're notorious for that .
Speaker 1But yeah , some of the women man , it's like oh , you like , you gotta just get it out there yeah , yeah , yeah , iterate over time , absolutely , um and I think that's so powerful too is just like , hey , it doesn't have to be perfect to actually be successful , and and I think that's the era that we're in anyway , right now I feel like we're having some interesting clap back to overly polished , overly perfected content . Yeah , which is why I'm here with like not even blow drying my hair .
Speaker 2I was like it is what it is .
Speaker 1It's a crazy week and I'm just going to shoot a podcast .
Speaker 2It feels too Fox News-y or CNN-y . It does you know , and like right now the trust in those institutions is really , really low . And on both sides it's not good in either way . You know so like this feels real and people are gravitating towards real . With AI , that's going to be even more of the case .
Speaker 1Real real human real . Which is why I love that . Joe , even though he has like a nice setup now and everything like , he will just show all the random things that are on his table . You know , if the audio goes out , they'll keep it in the final edit .
Speaker 2They will guys like I , I gotta pee and then just go and they just go yeah , like yeah , and they don't cut that out . They're not like .
Speaker 1We're gonna take a quick pause for , I know , to recognize our sponsors it's so awesome and so I think that we can learn a lot from that um , especially in this , in this economy and in this era of content creation , because on one side of things , I feel like we are primed and ready to go as online business owners , like we're well positioned to capitalize on the fact that so many people are like the consumption of content is out of control .
Speaker 1I was watching this graph Maybe you can show it from eMarketer . Let me just share it . It's in my Canva docs , but I was talking about this to our clients in our group coaching program , tbo plus . Uh , shameless plug , and one of the things that we were talking about was how consumption in digital media is just erupting I mean it's it's scary , chris it's , it's , absolutely , it is concerning .
Speaker 1It is concerning and then , at same time , mainstream media is absolutely plummeting in terms of consumption . Let me see if I can find this freaking graph to show you guys , because I feel like the visual is too powerful . But essentially , what's happening with that and why that's important we want to pay attention . It's just a fact that we're having the perfect storm , essentially in digital right now , where consumption is up , trust is low and therefore people are actively looking for small business owners and , um you know , independent creators to consume content from , which is amazing . I don't know for you if , oh my goodness , let me give you access . I don't know for you , but I , I , I need to rein in my consumption sometimes because , uh , it's a lot , I will go in and , like , watch hours of youtube content sometimes yeah it's , it's a lot , uh , and I see my parents who are in their 60s doing the same thing .
Speaker 2There's entire programs now that like , let me help you get out of spending 22 and a half hours a day on your phone um , you know . And then the screen time app you know on your actual built into your iphone . Like a lot of people are utilizing that so yeah , it's , it's gotten really out of control .
Speaker 2But here's the thing , though I think what people in my opinion , I think part of what people are doing is they are adapting at least to consuming content that's relevant to them , not just random content on the internet what's like 76 okay yeah , and I think also people are .
Speaker 1They're replacing their consumption . They used to watch a lot of tv and now they're watching youtube , youtube .
Speaker 2Or you know they're watching tiktok or whatever .
Speaker 1100 so that's that's a huge opportunity for online business , because we are primed and ready to go . Not only are they wanting to consume content , they also want to do business with people who are not institution yep , institutionalized .
Speaker 2So independent , so I love that .
Speaker 1That's awesome so if you , if you look at the red line , really what that's representing is the amount of time spent with digital media . Look at that that's the red line , right , and so it's projected up to 2026 , um , whereas like , look , just 2019 , right ? So like the consumption is going absolutely crazy it was almost 50 , 50 split it was a 50 50 split and now we're seeing 15 increase .
Speaker 1You know up in the different um different years . And then of course that blue line . Uh , that is the traditional media , yeah , yeah , yeah , I mean that's funny , because even this is true , even among I mean this is an anecdote , but amongst . And then of course that blue line that is the traditional media .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah , yeah . I mean that's terrible . It's funny because even this is true , even among I mean this is an anecdote but amongst even the older generations . We didn't see that before they were like you know , because they grew up on the trusted Walter Cronkite , you know , and it's like they watch . But now , even like my mom , she watches her YouTube shows . She's like , oh , I watch all of them , but she never tells me that she's watching the news . You know she's watching .
Speaker 2You know Megyn Kelly or something she's watching you know , those type shows and she's got a whole lineup now that she just watches on YouTube , Despite the fact that they've got a brand new TV hanging above their brand new fireplace . They just did . You know what I mean .
Speaker 1It's like nope the phone , she actually will turn off the TV to watch the phone , the TV yeah . And when your dad turns it off , she's like turn that off . Yeah , they're liars , they are , she's not wrong .
Speaker 2Clearly I didn't fall far from that tree . Clearly she's my mom . I mean , it's real , it's true , it is real .
Speaker 1And I feel like they've been just caught in so many . It's just they're so out of touch with reality , you know , and so , like they've , we can go on and on and on about how they're carving their own grave , in my opinion .
Speaker 2But what I love about the mainstream media , not the mainstream , not the elderly people no , no , they're not out of touch .
Speaker 1That's what I'm talking about .
Speaker 2Someone's gonna clip that I know someone's definitely gonna if this podcast ever becomes something , you're so insensitive , I keep talking about senior citizens . No , I'm just waiting for the absolute barrage . It's all good . It's happened in the past People are like . Kim is so cute when she talked about Canva and Trello .
Speaker 1And now it's like who is this ?
Speaker 2lioness roaring .
Speaker 1Thank you , Lisa Bevere . With her obnoxious husband no , most people love on us . They're amazing , no , but but you know how it is . There's only like one person .
Speaker 2Okay , but here's the problem , and this is a teachable right . Right , like the people that say those things , the the easter egg people that don't actually have a profile picture in most cases like philip last night at 1 am with his two subscribers philip , did you watch the whole video ?
Speaker 2no , he didn't . So he was , yeah , giving kim like a little lecture on the comments of one of her shorts , literally from the short , but it is what it is . So the problem is is that we have this negativity bias right , and so I always tell people imagine you have a restaurant you go to and you maybe go too frequently . Have you left them a review online on google ? Yet nope , and most people haven't .
Speaker 2But if you had one bad experience , immediately you know , like people leave bad reviews and so it's the same , it's the same behavior and comments and so , unfortunately , we're like well , my audience does not like that . I'm like no , the two percent of people that are a holes , that bitch about everything .
Speaker 2They're the ones that didn't like it . So you know , we have people that come out of the woodwork and we've never heard of them before . They've been following us for a decade and they're like . I simply love you guys . I've watched your stuff for all the years . I'm like who is you Like ? Where were you when ? All you know what I mean .
Speaker 1So and they'll be like . I specifically hired you because of all the crazy things you say . Like you're just . You're just true . Yeah , I love that you're speaking truth and you just tell it like it is , and there's no sugar coating .
Speaker 2I think people thought that , like when we started , you know being more . I don't want to say more ourselves , but that wasn't the norm on our industry was actually just speak truth , right . It was like it had to be curated and perfect and buttoned up and no , you didn't go there speaking out about things that were more value driven or faith related or whatever that like . Oh my gosh , the mutiny .
Speaker 2it was going to be an Exodus and they're going to go out of business and it , I would say the depth of relationship that we've built with super fans One , has been , I mean , multiplied by , by .
Speaker 1I don't even know . It's incalculable . We need to do an episode about that .
Speaker 2We're going to .
Speaker 1We have to talk about this , but I didn't feel like the hate really was that it wasn't that bad . I mean , okay , when we got it it was demonic , like it was so bad . It was like I'm going to like hunt you down and all the threats , right , but like it was so infrequent and the positive feedback was so wildly positive . We were like oh , people really are craving this .
Speaker 2How much would you say the pros outweigh the cons , like if you had to put a number to ?
Speaker 1it . I would do it 10,000 times . I wouldn't run a business any other way .
Speaker 2But I'm saying like in relation to how much more positive ?
Speaker 1Oh my gosh , it was like Both in frequency , or both in volume , but also in Percentage wise . Yeah , would you say it was like 90 than one percent . That's what I thought . Yeah , less than one percent say 90 , but that was understanding it . Yeah , less than one percent , 99 . It was nothing but positive , no , and , and I think we gained more customers than we lost that we're willing to a lot pay like super fan level .
Speaker 2Yeah , a hundred percent , I don't know for sure .
Speaker 1Um , just because the value alignment was so important . I think , look guys , we're in , we're in a cultural moment , we're in a spiritual moment . We're not saying that like we did it to capitalize , we didn't do it for that reason ?
Speaker 2No , it wasn't even a thought .
Speaker 1We were bracing for impact , we thought , okay , like we might get completely canceled , and then we realized , wait , no , you can only get canceled
Building Trust Through Authenticity
Speaker 1if you decide to get canceled . Second of all , I think we had more people who aligned with our values than we realized . Yeah , that was really cool . And then , for me , we had a serious conversation about this and we're like , okay , if we're going to die on a hill , it's going to be this hill .
Speaker 2Yeah , like this is the hill we're willing to die on . It kind of had to be that hill . Absolutely . Once you lose the ability for free speech no , it's done . Any nation state in history where that's happened , it's very soon thereafter . It's not good things , yeah .
Speaker 1So we saw the writing on the wall and I think the Holy Spirit really was nudging us , and that was the first . So that was crazy .
Speaker 2For sure .
Speaker 1I don't think we did it perfectly . I think we would have . I would have changed a few things , but ultimately I'm very glad that we did it and I'm sure at some point someone's going to go digging it . They're going to get mad about things we said . But I think we need to evolve as a culture and understand everyone changes their perspective . Everyone grows as you mature in your thinking and you're allowed to change your perspective . And so , yeah , it was a wild ride and we're still kind of on it .
Speaker 2I found myself being really sentimental and nostalgic , and that's very unlike me . I'm more of like the future , and I'm not saying the future isn't bright because it is , but I found myself being a little bit nostalgic in some ways and a little bit sentimental of like , longing for it , and I think part of it is that you know back in the day , like you would know or you didn't know at all people's differences , Like you know if your neighbors voted a different way than you did . Um , you know , my parents tended to be more conservative and then my neighbors were Northeastern hardcore Democrats that moved south , and so we would actually just joke around about how they had a blue sign in the yard . We had a red sign in our yard , Like it is what it is , and it was never like a thing they weren't like . Oh , these racist neo you know what I mean .
Speaker 2Like it was , like what All the isms and the aces , like no we just on tax percentages , like that's really what it is and we don't agree that . Like that maybe in some social programs that we think are you're getting too much fun . Like it was nuanced things that didn't speak to like you as an actual human , that you literally were like some savage beast that should be , is unforgivable , you know what I mean .
Speaker 2Like there's no redeeming qualities about you whatsoever , and I think it was because we we didn't lead with that . I think identity politics , like it , defined who you are as a human above all else , and it put you in a box . You're a red person , you're a blue person , and that's such tribalistic thinking um . Kim knows I'm . I refuse to put myself in any boxes in any way in my life except the marriage box , except the marriage box .
Speaker 1Hashtag win don't , don't , don't even try . I will cut you . I'm just kidding .
Speaker 2But I don't know , I just I don't like I'm a nonconformist and I think a lot of entrepreneurs are that way . We're nonconformist and that's why we're good at entrepreneurship , because we carve our own path . But anyway . So for me , to view it from the outside , looking or whether it was whatever , it wasn't a defining quality of who you were and , moreover , if somebody was different than you , you're like cool . It's a characteristic of them but , a very , very low on the priority list , totem pole wise of who they are .
Speaker 1But overall I love this person because I know them to be X , y and Z first , and you don't have to agree with everybody to have a relationship or learn from each other , which is so stupid . But that's Continue . Sorry , this intolerance .
Speaker 2It's so ridiculous . We have to be more mature than that . It's caused a lot of issues and a lot of division . I think it's just so ridiculous .
Speaker 1So this episode got real real . I almost wish that we wouldn't have talked about we were going to cover the Kajabi content report .
Speaker 2So back to Kajabi . No .
Speaker 1Because we should have a whole episode just talking about this , but I do think it's important to call it out because I just saw a lot of nastiness in the online space when all that was going down .
Speaker 2I mean you got canceled from a conference . I did ?
Speaker 1I got canceled .
Speaker 2Just for being a Christian conservative . The person's like yeah , you're right , you shouldn't be there .
Speaker 1It's like what conference that I had done before and pulled the highest numbers for charity . Anyway , the point is that this person was supposed to be the kind of person who's like , like they lived their values out loud and they were going to be uplifting to minorities you know , and that's why they got , that's why they approached you all the super woke things . No , I had done it before um but originally because you're no , not this is someone else . You have to do someone else . Yeah , this is a different .
Speaker 2Well , this has happened numerous times , many times kim kim , the token hispanic oh yeah she's the token brown girl at our conference guys see , see , see , we have a brown person . It's like what ? She's not brown my brothers look , I'm , I am the I'm as white , like I'm as european male . I know because I'm 23 . I'm like 99.7 european , like northern european are we really going down this path ? Because I'm you're setting me up for a real rant . I'm gonna go on a rant . I know I'm gonna trigger .
Speaker 1I'm gonna go on a rant , don't get me started anyway . The point is that it was just ridiculous and stupid and all around insane , um , and super immature . I was so disappointed by that just because I thought , you know , people need to see differing views right now , um , and people coming together to collaborate in the space where we have totally different views , and it's cool . We can talk about that .
Speaker 1But no you have to be like , oh , the trump supporter , let's distance myself I don't know , like your audience is good , I'm like my audience paid for all your stuff last time . What ? Are you talking about ? You know yep anyway , it's fine , it is what it is , but it's not fine .
Speaker 2That's the problem it's not fine .
Speaker 1It's not fine , but we're getting through it .
Speaker 2And that's important . Fortunately , I think , the prevailing I think things are shifting . Yeah , there's definitely the cooler . I think we got to a point where we're like no , this is too much , and I think most people .
Speaker 1I don't want to go in that rabbit hole because there's a whole and still , people will be like I'm so disappointed in you and it's like I'm disappointed in you . Yeah , I'm disappointed that you can't handle someone else's perspective and I didn't invite you to be here . Like the door's right there . Like keep scrolling , it's all good , like I love you .
Speaker 1I have no problems with people who think differently than me , but I do have a problem when you start jumping on my platform and trying to tell me how I need to think on my platform .
Speaker 2No , some of our , some of our most long tenured super fan clients are like almost on the exact opposite of most of our positions oh yeah , like and we have like incredible relationships yeah no , it's a beautiful thing and I think you learn from people's like look no further people you said be like how is it being in an interracial marriage ? Don't get crisp . But you're just what is happening with this episode , where are we going ?
Speaker 1yeah , you're , I'm , I'm about to go crazy here , but I like , like I don't think youtube can handle what I'm about to say .
Speaker 2We're gonna the show . The show is gonna do well , and then it's gonna go shut down . That's what's gonna happen . That's what's gonna happen . You're gonna have to find us . You're to have to find us deep on Reddit or something somewhere . That's the only place we can live .
Speaker 1Oh my gosh , so stupid .
Speaker 2But future episodes will be on X only because that's the only place we can be platformed . Rumble , rumble . Find us on Rumble . I'm going to die , but I will say this , though . I will say this , though I have gained much in my life with being exposed to somebody that came from a completely different culture than me .
Speaker 1Are you going to get woke points for that ? No , hell , no , that's not what I'm after .
Speaker 2I know , I'm just kidding . In any case , you can learn and gain perspective about when you have conversation about differences in people . Yeah , and sometimes I think we paint a narrative in our minds about why people are the way they are Right . So like how could you possibly vote for Donald Trump , kind of thing , right , yeah , well , have you talked to that person ? Have you heard about their lived experience ? Have you heard how it's affected their life ? So , for example , for us as small business owners , maybe you feel the same way . Dude Bidenomics was brutal for small business owners , like brutal .
Speaker 1Not just that , we had clients and members and longtime followers who were messaging us like I'm going to lose my house in two weeks .
Speaker 2Yes , what do I do ? It's like wait what ?
Speaker 1So that's the kind of stuff we're dealing with , all like the last four years . Constantly it's like small businesses are under attack , small businesses are getting shut down . Small businesses are like struggling in a lot of ways and we had plenty of clients who were doing well , but the ones that were not , it was so much emotional , um , you know , lift for us to to walk alongside them through crisis after crisis every day crises , um , and I don't think people realize that .
Speaker 1I think a lot of the people who are talking about oh , everything's kind of we're so uplifted and whatever , and empowered , it's like you . You don't live in reality . First of all , you're so completely out of touch .
Speaker 2Yeah , um , and that really supports support local business no until it's time to support local business 100% , and then you want nothing to do with support local business . So during the C word that happened in 2020 , which I don't think you can say on YouTube , so I'm not going to say it but the thing that shut everything down , that everybody was staying indoors and wearing masks , about right . So Walmart was allowed to stay open , mcdonald's was allowed to stay open .
Speaker 2Oh yeah , and Amazon do you , you know go do the research like literally fact check me on this . Amazon's market share expansion during that season is insane . It's insane . So local mom and pop business been in the family for generations , or people like him and I that were starting a bit . Thank god we were already online because I used to run a moving business , as you guys know if you've been following our story and I , I have a buddy , I have a friend it was a mentee of mine moving company . That's why he sought me out . Somebody's like oh you gotta talk to Chris . He did that really successfully . Go talk to Chris about it . So we became bros . We're both from Cincinnati . I call him my , my brother from a different mother but anyway , so he it shut him down . It shut him down that situation did and I know what he put into that . Yeah , I know the sacrifice he put into that . I know the time and effort he put into that .
Speaker 2Yeah , I know the sacrifice he put into that .
Speaker 2I know the time and effort he put into that . And nobody was there rallying for small business . You had some guys that were like raising money here and there or whatever , but you know that was not a central focus . So we have to champion for those people , because that's what we do , those are our people , that's our tribe . And so when you relegate somebody to one thing and you don't know that that's their story , that it literally took their livelihood , that it literally took something they poured their soul into , that is so grossly unfair . It is absolutely ridiculous .
Speaker 1It's not just that , chris , it's just the fact that they didn't even ask .
Speaker 2No , of course not . Not a single . It's pure assumptions .
Speaker 1I'm talking like friends , people who followed for a long time . They have no capacity to even say hey like . Can you tell me why ? Yeah you support this person or can ? You tell me why you lean this way or that way . Yeah , do you know how many times we've asked our liberal friends like tell me what you think about this , what is your perspective ?
Speaker 2I want to be challenged on my view in your words , not in the cnn talking points yeah , yeah , tell me what you actually think . Yeah , right , it's the it's the don lemon talking points .
Speaker 1It's like rip don lemon , no , not not actually , I mean the show now we're really gonna get canceled . Gosh chris . I feel like we need to re-record the intro to this episode because it's so good , but it's going in a very different direction . It's okay , welcome to the roller coaster they're gonna hit youtube's , gonna show them a title and it's gonna be like they're gonna get so like rug pulled I was besmirched I don't even know where to take it from here .
Speaker 1I don't even know how do we get back on track I think it does speak to , though .
Speaker 2We went through a lot .
Speaker 1We have gone through a lot socially .
Speaker 2we've gone through a lot economically as a collective , as a lot Socially we've gone through a lot Economically we've gone through a lot as a collective .
Speaker 2yeah , now the good news is bringing it back home here is it did affect the outlook for the creator economy . It did affect the outlook for creating content on the internet , because now it's never been more important than ever to create content on the internet . All that graph that we showed you guys , it was look where it started 2019 , we're at a 50-50 split . Now , look at it , we're at 70-30 . Now , what was that caused by ? People were constantly perusing the web . They're finding YouTube channels they never thought about before . They're getting on platforms they've never even been on before . They're starting new profiles , like I know people that got on X for the first time ever because Elon bought X and now they spend an extended amount of time there .
Speaker 2You had TikTok . Was ? Is it going to get banned ? Is it not going to get banned ? Well , that brought interest and intrigue there . People learned hey , I want to learn how to use Zoom because I can't meet in person . So , all of a sudden , everybody became Zoom experts . Our people prior to they didn't want anything to do with Zoom . Now , everything's Zoom , zoom and Zoom . Right , it's just like everything's . And so we we we catalyzed digital adoption , and so how that
Platform Instability and Creator Anxiety
Speaker 2plays into you guys is now , it's a must , it's not a maybe with content creation , it is a must , and if you're not doing it , if you're not thinking about it , uh , if it's not on your purview , if you're not fast about doing it , if it's not , uh , relevant to your person , you're simply not going to keep up . I mean , I don't , I don't want to be like the negative Nancy here .
Speaker 1But you have to .
Speaker 2It's an absolute must because of the things we've been talking about .
Speaker 1Yeah , we just got off a strategy call with a client and one of the things that we were sharing with her is like y'all speed , like this season is all about going faster and content consumption is here and we need to capitalize on that window . You do not want to look back five years ago and wonder what , if , what if I had actually , like , gone in my lane ? Locked in , got serious actually done the thing that I have been , you know , called to do , really because it's a calling for a lot of us like you're helping people um actually achieve breakthrough and you're you're actually showing up for the people that God intended you to serve .
Speaker 1And if you don't do the videos , if you don't do the emails , if you don't do the blogs , the podcasts , you're in disobedience in many ways , because you're not actually stewarding the blessing and the gifting and the calling in a way that will be prosperous . And I think God is . One thing that I've noticed about God is like he is a he . Every single one of god's dealings is profitable . Like he doesn't do things that are not going to be profitable , that are going to serve a purpose , even when it seems like he is uh and he does . He's I mean obviously , crazy sacrifices for humanity , right ?
Speaker 2Yeah .
Speaker 1But he actually thinks of us highly enough , he loves us enough to commit this beautiful act of grace and kindness and sacrifice . But it is profitable for him to do it . Meaning like there is going to be .
Speaker 2It's going to bear fruit . It's going to bear fruit . It's is going to be uh , they could all bear fruit it's going to bear fruit .
Speaker 1It's going to actually be something that that grows beyond him yeah and I think that's a beautiful thing , because I think sometimes we only think about yeah oh , you know , we need to steward the gift and keep it .
Speaker 2You know , kind of like the parable of the talents yeah , we're all running , we're gonna bury it , we're all non-profits , it's safe to bury it right .
Speaker 1it's risky to go out and do something that can expand it and make it bigger and and actually multiply the gift , um , and so sometimes I think that we're like hiding and just thinking that that's gonna be blessed by god and it's not like we gotta steward the gifting in a really smart way and I don't think we think that way .
Speaker 2No , and I think that a lot of people are feeling that that that calling a lot , I mean we know , because we talked to a lot of business owners , guys , and that's a resounding thing we're hearing is I just feel like I need to go for it . I feel like God is pushing me . I feel like God is telling me to do this . I feel like we hear that all the time and in fact , there's many people that came from more of an agnostic background , client-wise , that are like I don't know man , something's different , something's weird , like I feel , and now they're talking about praying and talking about God and it's like it's a beautiful thing for us to be a part of .
Speaker 2We didn't like we didn't start this and I feel like God in many ways is like turning it into that which is really powerful , and it also feels like a responsibility to me .
Speaker 1Oh , it's huge , oh my gosh it's heavy .
Speaker 2Yeah , it is , and so it doesn't feel like it's just like help people with you know their Trello productivity and they're , you know , using Canva . It's like it just feels like it's so much bigger than that now .
Speaker 1It's very , yeah , but it's like it just feels like it's so much bigger than that . Now it's very , yeah , it's , but it's crazy how god like when you're , when you're faithful in one thing , he opens the doors for the other thing and the next , thing , and the next . Thing and so I think we have to be we have to be more conscious about actually following the thing that god is putting in our hearts and doing that with excellence and so I think sometimes we just we just take it for granted and we think it's the simple thing .
Speaker 1It's like it's not the simple thing , Like content is just a vehicle for you to actually get in front of the people that you're called to serve . That's all it is .
Speaker 2I tell people that all the time . I'm like do you know how much business owners prior to the internet would have killed for stuff like ?
Speaker 1this , I know it's like we have a direct line and it's free .
Speaker 2You can get directly in front of your people thousands of them for free , right Like . You don't have to get the primest real estate to get foot traffic or go spend all this crazy money on print ads , like what .
Speaker 1Yeah .
Speaker 2Because I remember early I have a cousin that was in construction in a construction business for home new homes construction and they were paying for like radio ads . And when I was telling him what we were doing in social media , he's like , wait a minute , what ? Like you're getting a dollar for lead ? He's like , dude , we're spent like . And he told me I was just saying I remember what's radio ad wise , but it was insane , like every time they just played the radio spot that he was paying for .
Speaker 2But he was like ready to throw the whole playbook . He couldn't believe it like he could not believe because he was doing the old stuff back then it was like 10 plus years ago . But man , like people absolutely would have given an arm and a leg to be able to do what you have the opportunity to do right now by just turning on your silly phone and hitting record or creating something on canva for free and posting on the internet like it's unbelievable . And then we , we lose sight of that , that opportunity . Now it with more people doing it . Sure , there's saturation , you got to cut through the noise and that's what we help people do , right , but just getting started and putting things out and learning those tools yeah it's a it's the biggest step in the right direction I think so too .
Speaker 1So let's talk about so . Do you think we're ever going to get into a report ? Let's talk about it no , no , but I put us in the corner . Here's what I love if you go all the way thank you , we're in time out shut up and get to the report . The chapters are going to be hilarious on this episode .
Speaker 2The chapters are going to be hilarious . It's going to be literally like the last five minutes At minute 47, . Chris and Kim in timeout .
Speaker 1Okay , so a really interesting report from Kajabi . Remember , guys , that they're actually positioning it to set up their platform and it's important to kind of understand here . But I love that Kajabi has a lot of data and so one of the ways in which they're they're sharing this , I think it's really funny . The creator economy was built on creators , not for them , exactly while social platforms have crashed in on the talent , time and influence of creators . The real or have cashed in the real value has always come from the people behind the content yeah now the power dynamic is shifting .
Speaker 1Oh , now the power dynamic is shifting right . Creators are stepping into their full potential , not just as influencers , but as entrepreneurs they're owning their audience , their products and , more importantly , their revenue . Now here's the thing . This is what we've been talking about for literally five years . Um , we even have .
Speaker 1Maybe we should show our influencers versus entrepreneurs graph but essentially it's crazy to me that all this time you know we started with the influencer game and then that shifted into like I'm not an influencer , I'm a content creator , because there's artistry behind , in my opinion , the way that I differentiate . It's like if you're an influencer , you're usually like on the internet , talking about how great you are and how beautiful you are and you're posing on instagram and you're modeling and then you're sharing products , right .
Speaker 1But content creators have like an artistry behind their content and that's where most people like come in with , like you know , beautiful cinematic youtube videos , crazy B-roll , like there is a craft to creating content and content creators have like dominated that space probably for like the last four or five years , and now things are shifting and I always , always , always , we get a lot of creators come into our membership or our courses because they want to start a business , because they don't , or a client for coaching , now too For coaching but they don't want to continue a business because they don't , or apply for coaching , now too For coaching , but they don't want to continue having to work for other people , meaning they , you know , you kind of basically live on brand deals and sponsorships Working for the next brand deal , and that sucks and they're always lowering the bar for you .
Speaker 1They're always lowering the bar .
Speaker 2I'm seeing a shift in that , though I know I'm seeing it get a little bit more competitive .
Speaker 1We'll talk more about that , but essentially like , this is a huge nod to online businesses the way that .
Speaker 1I think of it Because for a really long time , I think online businesses have felt and that's who we talk to People get mad at me when I talk about influencers versus entrepreneurs . I don't care that you get mad , I'm not talking to influencers , I'm talking to business owners . So for a long time , we just modeled what influencers were doing , what content creators were doing , and we need to understand that we're running a very different business model Now . Creators are starting to step into the entrepreneurship game slowly and I'm like guys , why have we been so slow to this ? You gotta control your revenue streams . You can't just rely on the platform or a sponsorship deal . But that's really come to a head this year .
Speaker 2I think too . Commerce is commerce , as Kim would say . Commerce is changing a lot , and so you know , we have internet money now . You know , like guys are , people are trading coins that they launched this morning from their bed .
Speaker 1Exactly .
Speaker 2That are literally named fart coin . I mean'm not joking , guys one of the biggest gainers this year
Entrepreneurial Creators vs Social First
Speaker 2in cryptocurrency was named fart coin for real .
Speaker 2So we we're still . We're still adapting to these digital environments . What has value and some people have a really hard time adapting to those things , and so you know is a guy that's running a twitch channel playing video games , which I am engaging . I watch a lot of guys . They're making tens of thousands of dollars , sometimes in a stream , right In a stream . Like are they entrepreneurs ? And by the literal definition of entrepreneurship , I would say they are , and so I think the creator would not Okay .
Speaker 1Here's why . Here's why they're self-employed at the very least . Self-employed a hundred percent . They're self-employed at the very least . They're self-employed 100% . They're self-employed Because they don't create anything new . No , I think . For me one it's how do you run your business Are ? You serious about it . Most of these Twitch gamers , it's actually a bad thing , if they monetize at all , and so basically they're living for tips .
Speaker 2This is what they're doing .
Speaker 1They're living for tips . This is what they're doing . They're living for tips that there's no business model and they don't treat or act like a business in that they don't have an actual structure , and I would say that the umbrella then is self-employment . My second thing , my second requirement , is you need to create something of value that solves a problem that's independent from your content yes meaning , do you have even merch ?
Speaker 1do you have merch right , like , do you have anything that's a product right that solves a problem , that creates value , there's a value exchange that is tangible ? Because I think the problem is that we got into this idea that and maybe this is going to change . I hope that it changes . I think content in itself is extremely valuable . I think media has monetized content is that we got into this idea that and maybe this is gonna change . I hope that it changes . I think content in itself is extremely valuable . I think media has monetized content forever right , like that's what news shows are , that's what the newspaper is , that's what magazines are , but only if you own the distribution and you don't .
Speaker 1So , essentially , content creators are a show right , they're a show within the network . Yeah , they're not the network .
Speaker 2It's like network marketers .
Speaker 1Exactly .
Speaker 2Yeah , they sell somebody else's product .
Speaker 1They sell someone else's product .
Speaker 2So you're basically like an independent sales rep .
Speaker 1Right . That's really what you are . 100% Right For me . So you're an independent content rep . The differentiator is that you own the actual product .
Speaker 2That's a fair distinction .
Speaker 1And that you have created somewhat of a distribution channel that you own , aka an email list , an SMS list , some kind of contact that if the network shuts you down , aka Twitch , what are you going to do ? Do you have a business ? No , you don't have a business .
Speaker 2Yeah .
Speaker 1So see what I'm saying . What is our number one rule in business ?
Speaker 2you , don't build your business on someone else's business . Yeah , for , for a business owner , absolutely , but but even some of these creator guys . They get , they get , they get rug pulled .
Speaker 1I think they're 1099 contractors in a way . I mean you can think of it that way . I'm not trying to lower their status , I'm just saying if twitch went away , could they survive as a business ? No , they can't . So that's not a business .
Speaker 2They have to be to the next thing , and a lot of them actually , based on what we were talking about earlier , they had to go to Rumble because they got excommunicated from YouTube .
Speaker 1Exactly , and that was it .
Speaker 2Because the whole thing was them just streaming on YouTube .
Speaker 1Right .
Speaker 2And just talking about whatever culture whatever . About whatever culture , whatever , yeah . And then they had to they literally had to move their entire audience and they only retained a small fraction , because you're asking people to adopt a new platform that they don't they're not accustomed to using .
Speaker 1Yeah , so maybe in that case do you think , would you think they have a business because they were able to move their platform ?
Speaker 2over to someone else , right ?
Speaker 1so no , I don't think so um just based on the fact they don't have a product or yeah .
Speaker 2so it's tough , right , because like , let's say you have a media company , so like Patrick Bet-David , right . Like would you say he has a business , or would you say A thousand percent Right .
Speaker 1But why ? Because he has a distribution channel . It's not just the Patrick Bet-David show doesn't just live on YouTube or on the syndicated networks .
Speaker 2He's just utilizing those . He can utilize them .
Speaker 1And at any point in decides he's going to launch his own app and be completely independent . He has a big enough audience to where I think people would actually follow them there . Follow him there , not just community wise , but like email is texas an actual business asset .
Speaker 2Yeah , but I could be wrong about that and I and I hope this changes guys it needs to change there's silos now within self-employment , and that's the , that's the exciting part , I think , because regardless of where you decide to go , obviously we're on more on the like . Have something that's proof , tangible , you can take somewhere else , you can migrate .
Speaker 2You're not risking the biscuit right on somebody else's platform because you have to look at his borrowed traffic it's all borrowed and if that goes away and don't think that it won't , because it does and even if it doesn't go away , it's less it . Kim talks about platform cycles and it's so true because we saw this from a very early and this maybe people were like why are they so salty ? We saw this happen to people where they literally lost their livelihoods because they built their whole business on Facebook . In fact , they didn't even build their own website . Facebook used to allow you to build like a little website within Facebook on your actual page , and so people were doing that instead of actually building a website that lived outside of Facebook . And when Facebook became more , pay to play because what ends up happening ? And people don't think about it this way . But these platforms reach a certain point where they don't want you to be just benefiting for free anymore .
Speaker 2They want you to have to spend ads there . They want people transacting on the platform because that's how they make money , right ? So now they have paid , verification and all that which they didn't have before and they always should have . But they would get to a point like instagram same thing , like everybody's the organic reach is amazing . You got to go to instagram . Well , it hits critical mass . They have enough users on the platform where they don't need to do that anymore . And now they're like well , let's flip the switch . And all of a sudden , now not only are you in a sea of other people , but now they're trying to monetize those people because , guess what ? You built your whole thing there and so , in order to even reach the people that you earned , right , most people I think only 4% of your followers on Instagram actually see your stuff 4% .
Speaker 1That's crazy .
Speaker 2And so now guess what I need to at least get to the people I paid for ? Great , you can run an ad , and so you have to think about that way . So I like thinking about it from the perspective of hey , do you borrow it or do you own it ? That's why we talk about building your email list . We talk about building your text list that transfers from borrowed to owned , to where now you can say cool , if these guys want to get janky or if the platform cycle is not conducive , so people leave the platform , like they're not on Facebook anymore . We saw that happen , we saw that die . We saw people move away from Facebook and those people that built their whole website on that Facebook page , they were gone-ski . I mean , they lost their business .
Speaker 1And now you know , I feel like so many people are waking up to that .
Speaker 2Obviously , creators are waking up to that because they're having to , because they've gotten taken advantage of or mistreated .
Speaker 1Or the economy is not as good , and so brands are pulling brand deals like crazy . It's true .
Speaker 2So there's that they're having to actually have something . Yeah .
Speaker 1But if you go back to the report real quick , I want to . It's interesting that they make this Kajabi makes this distinction between entrepreneurial creators and social first graders , which I think is fascinating , because I didn't even read this and this is exactly . I mean , I did , but not I glanced through it , Social first creators .
Speaker 2that's interesting .
Speaker 1Notice there are three recommendations , or there are three requirements . Number one build audiences in social media , but don't rely on it for income . Number two invest in their own products like courses , coaching programs and memberships .
Speaker 1Yep you gotta solve a real problem in the market . And , yep , you got to solve a real problem in the market . And three own and control their revenue streams rather than depending on social platforms so important , where social first creators rely almost exclusively on social media for income , generate income mainly through platform payouts and brand partnerships , have limited revenue control due to dependency on social platforms . Chris , how long have we been talking about ?
Speaker 2this , oh my gosh .
Speaker 1I am so happy to see this y'all because this is so important so many people like Chris were talking about , like you remember , when Periscope was around . They built their entire business on Periscope and then Periscope got shut down and it was like gone , so you got to own your business . If YouTube goes away , if podcasts go away , if Facebook ads go away , chris and I will still have a business because we can actually go out and look at other distribution channels and say well , we're going to do JV affiliate partnerships and we're going to do webinars with other people in our industry who already have audiences . We're going to use our OPA method .
Speaker 1We're going to get in front of those people . Maybe we use SMS , maybe we start doing in-person workshops . There's so many things that need to transfer in your business to set it up for the long haul .
Speaker 2Yeah , we've talked a lot about building your email list , guys , and it's like , why do I need my email list ? They're right there on social . It's like , no , imagine if you were out at a conference and you wanted to get people on your CRM so you could follow up with them . Right Like sure , you can continue to go back to the conferences and communicate with them again . But what happens if that conference is not a conference anymore ? Yeah , there's no way to connect with those people . But if you got them in your CRM , guess what ? So I always try to put digital things into real terms for people , because I don't think they think about it that way . No-transcript anymore . Everything moved to tiktok . Whatever the case may be , it'll I have to take our to be something else . Right , it's always the next thing . Um , you could always message your people , text your people , email your people . Hey , we're here now because we follow up via our crm , which is really what having email list is . It's just a massive crm really .
Speaker 1That's one of the reasons we launch our own app in 20 100 get them on your app , get them in your environment . Now , that's owned , not borrowed exactly so if you scroll down a little bit more I want to go into . The more platform instability , the more creator anxiety . So we're seeing a lot of platform volatility . You see fear around platform volatility has increased by 2x over the last year .
Speaker 1Um , particularly , I think what they're referencing is a tiktok ban yeah so it says social first creators , meaning people who do not have actual businesses , um have a 400 percent or express a 400 percent higher concern about the ban , then , um , they're positioning Kajabi creators because they're talking about entrepreneurs , like business owners , and so y'all everyone needs a business , Everyone needs a business .
Speaker 1We've been saying this forever . It doesn't matter whether you are a creator style , you know personal persona , or you present yourself as a business . You need to have a business on the back end . It's no longer okay to just rely on social media , and this is this is the anxiety that's coming when the real stuff gets real .
Speaker 1So , we're in a cycle of , like bad economy , crazy instability , institutionally low trust all the things that we've been talking about . Now the actual market is demanding proof of work meaning they're going to do business with people who can actually deliver results , and you need to have a product . You need to solve a problem , otherwise the market's not going to pay you .
Speaker 2There are some statistics that were coming out around the time that the TikTok ban was going into effect . And it was like such and such amount of people are going to lose their livelihood or lose 80 of their revenue , and you know we've had friends too or like . Even instagram has a glitch for a day oh , and they'll be like you're messing with my business and you know , kim and I are like yo what I mean .
Speaker 2I don't want to sound insensitive , but that's your own damn fault like if you're gonna lose 80 of your business because instagram is down for a day or because tiktok got one platform got banned and you're going to lose your business over that . Like dude , you're playing Russian roulette with this stuff , Like that's so crazy to me .
Speaker 1I don't have the capacity to be that anxious and that concerned . I just don't .
Speaker 2I just that's not who I am , Nor that we're relying on anything they could literally change the algorithm and they do Tomorrow , tomorrow , yep , and you don't control those terms , and so I know we sound like you know radical boomers or something , but it's like dude until this stuff starts happening but as a business owner , you you control so little . Yes , why would you leave that up to chance if you don't have to ?
Speaker 1let's talk about let's scroll down a little bit , this goes right into this quote uh , what we're talking about the temporary disappearance of tiktok in january 2025 . Sir , does a major wake-up call for a lot of creators no joke are you kidding me , like guys ? Why are we so late to this , don't you want ?
Speaker 2don't build on borrowed land . You own your . Did we not just say I didn't read this ? I promise you guys , I didn't read this beforehand creative creator economy expert .
Speaker 1I don't know who leah is , but Leah you are our friend . We need to be friends . Leah , you're amazing .
Speaker 2So ultimately , Building a business or even entire career on a single social platform is risky .
Speaker 1Don't build on borrowed land . Own your platform . Guys , this is where you got to be smart and savvy about how you position yourself . And people come at me when I say this , especially on like Instagram . People get so mad .
Speaker 2So mad , so salty , scroll up real quick , so salty . Guys , we're not yeah .
Speaker 1But here's the reality there was a 40% year over year decrease in creators' willingness to compromise their values for high paying brand deals . That is super important and ties into what we said before about trust and transparency .
Speaker 2It's true .
Speaker 1The market has no capacity for superficial BS . They will call it out and they will sniff it from afar .
Speaker 2I know the brand deal stuff sounds really attractive . That like did you know that Kim Kardashian gets paid ?
Speaker 1$20 million for posting one time .
Owning Your Revenue Streams
Speaker 2I'm gonna tell you right now , kim Kardashian can control the terms because she's got 150 gajillion followers . Right , you , with your 20 000 followers , they will control the terms 100 and you will literally and they will change the terms . And I've we've read , guys , we get brand deal requests . I'm not joking . We get brand new requests at least three to five times a week sometimes a day .
Speaker 2A day , no , seriously like I was trying to be fair , but that probably you're probably right Like our inbox is flooded with brand deal requests and , look , I can tell you , I've read the contracts , I've read their terms , I've read what they're asking for , I've read what they demand . I've read their ability to get out and still hold you accountable to producing the content you're going to produce .
Speaker 1Guys , it's insane , like I sent it to a to an executive coach of mine .
Speaker 2He's like why I sent it to an executive coach of mine ? He's like why the heck would anybody do this ? I'm like exactly . He's like trust your gut on that one . I was like , yeah , I'm not doing it . So it's crazy . It's not what you think it is . In some cases , maybe you find a good one that isn't . We have partners that we work with . I'm not dismissing any of them .
Speaker 1We do brand deals , we do brand deals for a brand deal .
Speaker 2But here's the problem though we can have leverage , because we don't need it .
Speaker 2Yes , we don't need it , we don't need it and when we slow walk them , when they reach out to us and we're like , yeah , we'll think about it , let's talk on a Zoom call , cool , okay , yeah , we'll talk about it . Like then all of a sudden bit more friendly to you , so when you can own the terms . Another example I had one competitor reach out to me for a brand deal . I said I'm not doing this unless you're going to at least cover the cost of me to create it . In addition to x , y and z . They wanted to just do a give me , send me a product . They were getting ready to put a label on and send it before I'd even agree to anything . No contract , anything . They're gonna send it to me . I said no , no , no , no , no , no . You need to at least cover . I said I want two thousand dollars minimum just to cover my costs and just be cover my time .
Speaker 2In addition to affiliate links . Lifetime , not for a limited span of time , not for 12 months . So what they want you to do sometimes is do 12 months of content for them , like on YouTube , let's say but at the end of the 12 months , guess what ? The affiliate commission link goes , expires . So your video lives forever and it does . It does banger work for them forever , but they don't have to keep paying you commissions for it . So they want to give me a free product and an expiring affiliate . Like I said , go kick rocks .
Speaker 2So I reached out to the other company their competitor their competitor and they gave me the sweetest deal ever Sent me the product overnight , we're willing to pay for it , et cetera , et cetera , et cetera .
Speaker 1Right , but Can I just say you're a badass negotiator .
Speaker 2Thank you .
Speaker 1Like you're such a badass negotiator . I mean it's just unbelievable this stuff . Finish your story . But I just want to pause to acknowledge . Thank you your incredible savviness If I wasn't I . You get people to agree to the terms that they agree to .
Speaker 2You learn the hard way of getting your butt kicked in negotiations . If I wasn't red already from the glade exposure , I would have turned red from the compliments , thank , you .
Speaker 2But the kicker , though , is this and I learned this about negotiations guys , it's all about being in a position of leverage , and when you have no leverage because you live and die on one platform and you live and die off somebody else's money paying you to create some content , because that's the aim , that's what you're trying to accomplish you're gonna feel like you'll take whatever they'll give you and you'll do whatever they say , because you are not in a position of leverage , you do not have the high ground yeah , and that's exactly what it's .
Speaker 1Just , I don't know . You're transitioning perfectly , because this is exactly what the next section is talking about . Creators are taking control of their channels . Entrepreneurship is becoming less and less of a choice and more of a necessity for creators . In the last year , creators have seen a 33 percent decrease in platform payout , 36 percent decrease in affiliate marketing and 52 percent decrease in brand deals that's crazy why these are all revenue streams .
Speaker 2They should not be your main source of business , it's ancillary , it's a cherry on top , it's a bonus .
Speaker 1We do all these things . We get platform payouts , we get affiliate commissions and we do brand deals . None of them are even close to the majority of our revenue , because we don't want to depend on anybody .
Speaker 2But most of the brand deals that we take , guys , just from a strategy . So you realize , like , okay , but if you're so down on this , why would you take a brand deal ? We usually will find we'll find deals , exactly . We'll find deals where we collaborate with tools that our people are already using , and then we'll . We'll , like I said , I don't want the affiliate expiry deadline here because we'll use an existing audience that we own . We'll get people using a tool that they're already using , but using our , our affiliate link , and then guess what ? You get commissions , affiliate wise forever and it's a positive relationship .
Speaker 1So we never do a deal ever with a tool or a company that we don't have alignment in our actual business . So it has to be perfectly aligned , it has to be perfectly vetted by our clients and customers , otherwise it doesn't make sense for us . And so think about this when we create content like this for us , we think of it as a media company . We have ad spots in these episodes , or we just mention our products , and that's how we market our business . So for us , this is primo content .
Speaker 2Join the business lounge .
Speaker 1Exactly . We don't want to give other people premium ad spots in our content unless we're going to get paid for it , because that means that's revenue that's being lost from our business , and so we never want to do that . We're going to think about it like and I think that's why , chris , I'm so , I'm so grateful that and this is going to sound like a humble brag , but it's not y'all we learned this with the school of hard knocks and our first business that was not online , that it was not a YouTube channel .
Speaker 1So when we're talking to you , we're not talking to you as Kim and Chris , the online coaches .
Speaker 2No , I got raked over the coals , it's like no .
Speaker 1We have real experience running real companies in the real world , completely outside of the online space . And that gives you perspective .
Speaker 2that's important yeah , I would . I would have a sixty thousand dollar installation contract where I lost 28 grand . How does that happen ? Exactly you know , but I didn't . I was young , didn't know what I was doing and I hadn't . I put myself in a position of no leverage . Yeah , and therefore I had no ability to go back and submit work orders because a lot of the signatures already been gathered and I had no leverage and we had no idea how to negotiate , we didn't come from a position of strength and that we needed the contract .
Speaker 2So we learned all these things by making mistakes and being or I signed the original contract , which gave me no position of power at all in the event that things happened right . And so , yeah , it's a mess .
Speaker 1So we learn and we grow . And this was like 14 years ago . But what ?
Speaker 213 , 13 years ago , 13 years ago , yeah , so learn the easy way , not the hard way learn from learn from me . Learning the hard way and we were kids .
Speaker 1We had no idea we're still kids , but we were kids back then , even younger I'm a toys rs kid let's talk about what is working , though , because I love to see like we talked about all the bad stuff , but let's talk about the good stuff , and so if this is working for creators , like , how do we interpret this for online business ? This is really interesting .
Speaker 2Chris podcast revenue but 47 , but derived from what though ?
Speaker 1ad spots uh ad spots so a lot of what we see , and I've been y'all please I did an episode probably add sense to if it's a video show , sure I did , if it's a video podcast yeah , video yeah so I don't know . They didn't specify , so I'm assuming it's from from send it , send a video show on YouTube . I did . If it's a video , podcast , yeah , video . So I don't know , they didn't specify , so I'm assuming it's from from send a .
Speaker 2send a thank you letter to Joe Rogan for that one Seriously .
Speaker 1I was going to say we've been putting out some episodes on this guys . So , like last , I think last season we talked about why you have to his whole entire campaign and how smart it was that they leveraged podcasts , whereas the Harris campaign really focused on influencer endorsements .
Speaker 2Bad idea , that was a terrible move .
Speaker 1That was a dagger . Regardless of our political views , we like objectively looking at okay , what did these campaigns do well and what didn't do well ? Podcasts are exploding right now , so , as an online business , you need to look at this information . So I like to validate from multiple sources . One I want to look at political campaigns and I'm not saying you do that every year , obviously like the only happen every four years .
Speaker 2You can , you can , but let's not do that . But the Leslie Knope campaign .
Speaker 1I want to see the ones that have billions of dollars backing them . That's what I want to see , Because that's like there's proof in the pudding . Yeah , yeah yeah , and so for me looking at like , hey , let's look at creators , what's happening in the creator land . Let's look at influencers what's happening there . Let's look at the financial sector , let's look at also what's happening big , huge corporate campaigns , podcasts are exploding . Why ?
Speaker 1because consumption , people want to consume content from independent creators , and so I think that that's a really important lesson for us to learn . This is why we're launching the podcast on youtube it's part of it practicing what we preach .
Speaker 2Guys , follow the numbers , follow the numbers , follow the numbers .
Speaker 1Digital download sales 20 up in digital download sales . So this is so interesting to me yeah I think we're seeing like the bottom and the top just we've talked about this .
Speaker 2Are they buying these with fart coin ?
Speaker 1I'm saying low ticket stuff is selling really well because , the economy is crop , yeah , or high ticket stuff , because players with money want to invest yeah . So I love this .
Speaker 2Digital downloads if you don't have a shop already , you should have a shop yeah , in your in your online business educational content , even if you're just putting resources that you use inside of like your coaching program you could sell like your your mechanism , that you put into a pdf resource or something like that people , yeah , and that's . That's pretty much ai proof absolutely .
Speaker 1Now I am having a hard time with the educational content and the membership group yeah , how that's different no , not how's different , but more so that I don't think that's like . I think the creators are really late to this game .
Speaker 2Yes , oh my gosh . They're almost like too late to this game Too late , yeah . And so courses are dying and memberships are dying in their current state , so when they say educational content , they're basically saying courses , courses , or lumping it in there .
Speaker 1And I'm not saying that courses can't be profitable at all . We still make money from our courses . Yeah , but you have to infuse an element , I think , now of hybridizing , where you're actually showing up live answering questions , doing some hand-holding , some implementation . I think the value prop of just more information isn't the thing right now .
Speaker 2Yeah .
Speaker 1So I think creators are going to find that out because they're a little behind .
Speaker 2A little bit .
Speaker 1But for online businesses . This is how we would translate it . I think you've got to have a cool element to that I would have loved to see .
Speaker 2Well , obviously this doesn't apply , but I would love to see a number of coaching 100% , Because coaching increase would be true .
Speaker 1But I don't think creators are at the place where they feel like they're established as a business enough to actually offer coaching .
Speaker 2Very few of them do .
Speaker 1But I think that would be a really good . You're right .
Speaker 2Building revenue streams independent of social platforms gives you peace of mind when it comes to cash flow . Did these people just borrow quotes from us from the last five to six years ? Yeah , predictability when forecasting out the anxiety of wondering if you're gonna lock in a brand deal or not . All social media followers are just borrowed audiences . You don't have control over your accounts . Like can be gone tomorrow so check it , check out . I wish I could get a time machine , I would go back and say it even harder I would too .
Speaker 1I would too , even though people got mad , it doesn't matter , yeah whatever own your business , your paycheck and your wellness . So this is a really interesting um twist . I think owning your revenue channels and your audience pays off . Entrepreneurial creators make 25% more . Surprise , surprise , surprise surprise you make more money . And also what is interesting to me is the emotional . If you go down , the wealthier and emotionally healthier Wow . Yes , why ? Because this is I don't think the creator . Space was ever intended to be a full-time gig in the way it's established .
Speaker 2Because it's so stressful 26 struggle with paycheck to paycheck .
Speaker 1Stress yes that's crazy wow like your life is . I remember watching , listen , I love . I consume a lot of creator content . I love watching creators do their thing because it's it's an art yeah , it is um , but one of the , the girls that I followed . She had this feeling that things like I think she had intuition that things were not gonna go very well um financially for them . I think it was right after the pandemic okay so her husband lost her job , and she had preemptively sold all of her high-end purses like she had like some chanel purses and uh , I don't know .
Speaker 1You know I don't know much about purse brands because I that's not my thing yeah , but anyway , she had really expensive purses , like five to ten thousand dollars she sold them so that they would have enough cash flow to cover her husband getting laid
Niching Down and Smart Pricing
Speaker 1off , but then also her business like the brand deals , kind of stopped yeah and I was like they have kids that's crazy , that is so stressful . I'm not saying that can't happen in your business , because there's epsom flows too right for sure but my goodness , like it seems to be out of nowhere all the time .
Speaker 2That's why . That's why I love having something like brand deals , sponsorships , affiliate links , stuff like that . It's just a nice like it's the whipped cream and the cherry on top . You know what ?
Speaker 2what I mean Like it adds to if you're a business extra revenue streams , because then if you do have a downfall in your business you know a drawback , whatever then you still have that right that you can say like okay , cool , we're going to subsidize some of these losses . You know 15% . You know Delta , this year over last year , you know we took on a brand deal and so that covers it 100 .
Speaker 1You know what I mean . But it's also hard as a creator , like if you're pivoting you've accustomed your audience to . Basically you work for them for free , like you just put out . I know creators that apologize to their audience when they can't get a video out . You know , in time and it's like wait . Are these ?
Speaker 2people . Sorry guys .
Speaker 1Yeah , it's true , I've seen that right it's like sorry guys , I'm in the hospital with pneumonia uh-huh and people are like well , like should have had the episode ready before I was my whole day around this like excuse literally I've seen it seriously . I'm not exaggerating that is not a positive relationship , that's pretty toxic relationship with an audience demanding and so now , how do you position yourself as someone who has something to sell ? That's hard really bad .
Speaker 2So I'm a big dallas maps fan I was I was rip dallas mass fandom but uh , because we traded luca and I can't get over it , but anyways , so I felt really bad , though for the , the most for the guys that created a podcast , um , that cover the maps and they're independent guys and their numbers just dwindled because , the fan base was really , really divided over it yeah and a lot of people just stopped tuning in , myself included , and it's like , oh my gosh , I felt so bad for them because they go every day .
Speaker 2There's something mavs locked on mavs every single day , your team every day , and man , I just it's got to be tough to be in a situation not only are you , is your whole business on somebody else's platform , but it's covering someone else's business . So it's like two layers of being not in control of what you do . It's got to be tough .
Speaker 1Yeah , it is , it absolutely is . Yeah , my heart goes out to them and it's so much work , chris , oh coaching consulting .
Speaker 2It's here .
Speaker 1I don't know why that wasn't listed before . They actually have it bigger than memberships that are on merchandise . So this is why I think so many online business owners are confused about their identity , in a way , like they're modeling a lot of the content creators because we have so much overlap .
Speaker 2Right , there's so much overlap , but we're slightly different and I think I'm going to predict in the next five years , most creators are going to be online business owners and some of you , like kim said , even if you're already doing some of these and you're like yes , nailed it , yes , exactly . Like if you have a membership , let's say but you're seeing it kind of like Slow down , like yeah , it's not as many people , you got a 20% , you know dip . Okay , well , launch a coaching level A hundred percent . Launch a coaching tier P that I don't want to give away the deets .
Speaker 1Don't give away the deets .
Speaker 2But , like we're launching some merchandise that's beneficial to the people in our membership and our coaching . You know , launch some digital downloads , right . We launch a store page that has things you can buy that we use in our own business . So you can start being more robust . If you see one of these , you know , start to dwindle a little bit , or the appetite for it is not what it once was .
Speaker 1Exactly , and then , as we continue scrolling down , you'll see a little bit further . You know , audience ownership , guys , community Both of those are super important . If you go to the next one , this one is just all about hey , 55% of creators are saying that audience ownership is the most important factor for success . Thank you , thank you , we've been validated . Community the perfect place to start and grow your business . So I love that . Like starting a community where you can add value to people . Answer people's questions , you know , create special episodes .
Speaker 2I think that's a perfect bridge , even if it's just on like Mighty 100% Circle Mighty Networks Kajabi Kajabi . Exactly , exactly .
Speaker 1Well , since , we are on Kajabi . That's why they're saying it .
Speaker 2Exactly .
Speaker 1Nishes niche is niche it down . Scroll down a little bit , we get there you go specialize to monetize .
Speaker 2I actually love that specialize to monetize , um it's true , though , and people want that , so I talked about . I talked about tribalism in a negative sense before . Let's talk about in a positive sense right um .
Speaker 2So when there's chaos and uncertainty in the world , people like to feel like they belong to something and they're understood and they share values and all the things we said , like the reason that people were aligning so much with us is because , in a sea of all this uncertainty and all this chaos and all these people fighting , they feel like there was one place where they belonged and they felt accepted and understood .
Speaker 2Yeah , and so now bringing this into what we're talking about here , if you niche down into something , one people feel , the tribalism works in your benefit . Two , two and this is a really important second factor where this is going to be a double whammy for you People want what they want and they want it now , and that is going to continue to be the case with AI . And so if your niche , if you're too broad , people are not going to take the time to exhaust calories to figure out that it actually is for them , or they're going to come into your community or in your coaching and be like , oh , this isn't for me , they're talking about coaching and I sell physical products , right ? So that is going to really serve you well , both in making sales , but also retaining people and building tribe , which people are longing for because they do feel like they belong there , but also they know immediately it's for them and it's selling something that they want . That's really important , so I'm glad they recommend this .
Speaker 1A hundred percent . What I really like about this whole idea is that it just builds on basic business principles y'all . It's just basic business principles , really . Price is right . Smart pricing can fuel growth . Yeah , it can . We did a whole episode on pricing A previous episode . We'll link it here for you guys . But how do you actually position your pricing in a way that gets people excited to buy from you ? That's important . And then I think from here it's just basically like the price ranges , for one time , you know , for creators .
Speaker 1And notice y'all how much lower their pricing is when you have when a creator is charging for something , rather than a expert who is an online business owner , because there's no way I would spend , I would charge . Well , this is a range , right ? It's like $100 to $550 expert who was an online business owner . Because there's no way I would spend , I would charge . Well , this is a range , right , it's like a hundred to $550 , but like we charge 20 times this , at least yeah .
Speaker 1Community Same thing . I like the fact that the community range goes all the way up to 400 , though that's . That's pretty legit . Um and so courses up to two 50 , see how the MagDaddy courses are dying . Guys , please don't build a $1,000 , $2,000 course , $2,000 , $3,000 course .
Speaker 2That's not working anymore . No , it's not Even the leaders , it's not just us saying that the leaders in that space for decades . They're having trouble with those .
Speaker 1Yeah , and so the next one is just basically about bundling , and that's basically the report .
Speaker 2But these are really good validation points . We'll drop the link in the .
Speaker 1We'll drop the link in the description , if you want to read it yourself at your own pace but man , I think we talked about a lot of things the moral of the story here , as we land the plane like chris talks about I love when she says land the plane . It's my favorite chris could be here for five hours um when she says land the plane , you know what that is ?
Speaker 2for me it's the , the adult equivalence of being like it's bedtime for a kid . That's what it is .
Speaker 1I'm like , no , we need to get you like on your own show , for like longer , because you could be here for four hours and I'm here for it , but I started .
Speaker 2Kim just told me my introverted self it's bedtime my introverted self was like I'm dead dude yeah , I can't do it anymore , passing out , she's like playing , please land .
Speaker 1No . But really the biggest takeaway is , guys , it's just this is validation for direction in the online space . We use this as essentially some benchmarks of what's working , what's not working , how you need to pivot and adapt because , listen , what you don't want to happen is the course creators I , I mean the course creators , the content creators are positioned to have an audience . They already have content systems , they're already consistently creating content they get it , I think content creators are gonna take over the online business space , if we don't get smart and savvy about how we market our businesses online .
Speaker 2I was just about when they're getting smart , when they learn that game . I'm telling you they're coming for that cookie , they're coming for that cookie .
Speaker 1We're ahead and they get it , but they're going to close the gap .
Speaker 2One of our clients . I was just looking and I saw some younger people entering the space and they are doing marketing , very , very , very like they're doing all the things that . I've and I'm like that's going to be a problem , so it's going to get more crowded , so you really really , really need to take that seriously . I don't want to end on a negative , though .
Speaker 1No , it's a positive . I think that it's exciting that we're ahead of the trends .
Speaker 2You're ahead .
Speaker 1If you run fast you're going to crush .
Speaker 2You borrow their playbook , but adapt it for business , and I think you're going to go far , 100% .
Speaker 1Yeah , it's like we're trading . Like the creators are becoming business owners and business owners are like we gotta create content .
Speaker 2Okay , here you go Idea positive I teach creators .
Speaker 1You said that like we weren't being positive .
Speaker 2I teach creators how to build an actual online business , because all these people migrating over ?
Speaker 1Why are you giving them away our secrets ? Oh yeah , sorry , that's what we're gonna do .
Speaker 2Don't do that one , do a different one . No , but seriously , there's always new opportunities . So anytime there's an inherent , implied negative , just be like . Well , okay , great , that's more people then in the space that I can sell to , because now they're not playing on the internet , they're actually looking to do something real and I do something real .
Speaker 1Totally .
Speaker 2So more addressable market for you and probably a whole generation of people in the younger crowd . My guess would be that are coming into the realness of the world and they're like okay , mom and dad , I expired from their health insurance . I'm not paying rent . Still . I'm 28 years old . I kind of need to stop playing on the internet and actually focus on making money . I'm unemployable . What do I do ? Perfect , here you are with your amazing offer and all your infinite wisdom , having done this forever .
Speaker 1Boom and all your infinite wisdom , having done this forever boom , there you go .
Speaker 2So opportunity , I love it . You want to close this out , yeah , guys . So thank you for watching the full hour and a half of this . Hope you guys enjoyed it make sure you do subscribe for future episodes . Hit the bell for notifications . You will get lost in a sea of youtube . You know that . So if you enjoyed the show , make sure you comment below if there's anything in particular that you want to hear us talk about going forward or you have questions or you have questions or you have comments , unless you're Phil .
Speaker 2We already heard enough from you . Phil , go away . So , philip , philip , anybody that names themselves , they're full .
Speaker 1Chris Philip , let's close the episode . Oh man .
Speaker 2Anyways that , and then also there's links and resources below , if you're ready to take your efforts to the next level , to some of our programs . We have the self-study with TBL Academy . We have group coaching , which has been phenomenal . People are loving it . And also we have one-on-one if you want to go real fast . Those are the people that are like I'm here for it , let's go , let's run the sprint . That's what I'm all about . I'm a go fast guy . As you can tell , I talk fast , go .
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