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The Business Lounge Podcast with Kim & Chris
Welcome to The Business Lounge Podcast! Each week we'll share proven marketing strategies to help you build an audience of buyers, create impactful content, and grow a profitable business without compromising on your values with your host, Kimberly Ann Jimenez!
Kim is an Online Marketing Strategist, Educator, Founder and Thought Leader in the online marketing industry.
Having worked with 33K+ small business owners & entrepreneurs across an array of industries over the past decade, Kimberly and her business partner Chris Michael Harris are obsessed with helping you level up your marketing game, and grow your bottom line.
They co-lead their flagship program, The Business Lounge, which teaches business owners & entrepreneurs like you how to navigate the confusing & often overwhelming world of online marketing and build an unapologetically profitable business on your own terms (and without compromising your faith, your family or your freedom).
Join us at thebusinesslounge.co
The Business Lounge Podcast with Kim & Chris
S8 EP4: Craft Your Irresistible Offer: 5 Elements To Make Clients Say YES Every Time!
Struggling to get clients to say yes—even with a great product? You might have an offer problem. In this episode, we break down the 5 key elements of an irresistible offer that boosts conversions and justifies premium pricing. From pricing psychology to bonus stacking, you'll learn how to craft an offer your dream clients can’t resist. Stay tuned!
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Related: Listen to S8 EP2: Smart Pricing Strategies >>
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What if you could craft an offer so irresistible your clients could not say no? In this episode, we're going to show you the five elements of an irresistible offer, step-by-step, plus real-world examples and the most common mistakes that we see online business owners make that absolutely kill the sale. So if you want to actually add more money to your bottom line and crush your offers, make them absolutely irresistible, you've got to watch this episode.
Speaker 2:Show me the money please.
Speaker 1:Of course you have to go there. What's up, Amelia? It's Kim.
Speaker 2:And Chris.
Speaker 1:And you're listening to the Business Lounge Podcast.
Speaker 2:In each episode, we'll break down all the latest in online marketing, give you all the deets on what's working now to turn your content into customers, boost your leads and sales and scale your business fast.
Speaker 1:All without compromising on what you care about most faith, family and freedom. And listen, it's all real, raw and unfiltered. So let's start the show. Welcome back to the Business Knowledge Podcast. I am your co-host, kimberly Ann Jimenez. I'm here with Chris.
Speaker 2:I'm also your co-host, co-host, co-host.
Speaker 1:Co-host Season eight. It's been amazing so far Released the first three episodes and you guys so did you get promoted? Did I get promoted? For what?
Speaker 2:From manager to co-manager no.
Speaker 1:I got demoted. I'm getting promoted as well.
Speaker 2:I got demoted and you got promoted. No but Host to co-host.
Speaker 1:Listen, stay focused. I was talking about how awesome the response has been to the first three episodes and we're super pumped. Those sweet Vagina fans guys. We had no idea if they were going to do well or not. We told you that in the first couple ones, but you guys loved our pricing episode. So far We've only released two of them. I think the third one's going to be more like a connection piece. I don't know if people are going to love that one, but we'll see if we get a bunch of unsubscribes.
Speaker 2:We're currently still in the free world, in the free world.
Speaker 1:So it'll be interesting. So it'll be interesting. You guys loved talking about pricing, and if you haven't watched our pricing episode, go watch that after this one. This one is very foundational. We're going to talk about again that offer, and I think, chris, this is one of the things we see constantly that holds online business owners back, especially if you have a service where you sell a course or kind of hybrid, where you do coaching and also courses, guys, you're not charging enough, but most of you don't have the confidence to do that because you have not slam dunk the offer just yet, and that's what we're gonna teach you to do in today's episode. So let's start off by talking about the popular offer mistakes. We see constantly.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it's important to start with mistakes first, because once you can kind of eliminate most of those, then we can start building on efforts. But most of what we see, I would say, is is going to be a lot of the mistakes that people are making.
Speaker 1:Yeah, especially when it comes to pricing. Only that first one, where it's either too low, too high or super confusing yeah, so let me.
Speaker 2:We got a slide pulled up for you guys and we got our cat visiting one of our cats you want to say hi to everybody so she's here, that's happening, um yeah, so let me pull this up for you guys real quick because I think this would be super helpful. To go ahead and see this we got slides so we talked about this in the last episode.
Speaker 2:right, when you're it's, your pricing is all over the place. You don't have a concrete pricing strategy, you haven't validated that pricing. We call it qualifying the pricing, right, um, but so it's either too low, too high or it's just confusing, and a lot of people get a little too QC with some of their price positioning, where they're like, well, you could do this for this and this for this. So I had, um, I have an executive coach that I work with and I'm not picking on anybody in particular here but he was getting quotes to do like a ghostwriter for his book that he's releasing, and one person just was trying to be so flexible and so accommodating that it was just outright confusing. So, even though her pricing was actually, when you figured it all out, it wasn't as bad in the sense of expensive, right, in his view, but it was exhausting too many calories for him to have to figure out what the heck would be what.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the final price Right, and so sometimes what we end up doing is to try to over-accommodate all the different specific requests that we may get from people. Our pricing is actually confusing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think we see this a lot with service providers too, where you are used to custom quoting for individual clients and so when you are forced to come up with an actual offer, then you're like, well, you could add this and you could do that, and then it just becomes like a discombobulated that's the word I'm looking for mess, and it's too overwhelming. So I think that a lot of times when we, like you said, when we make their clients exhaust too many calories, you lose them.
Speaker 2:They're gone.
Speaker 1:It's got to be clear, it's got to be simple, it's got to be precise, and so I don't know if you have other examples or anything you want to add on to that yeah, sometimes a lot of software programs, they have like five different tiers. Yes, too many.
Speaker 2:And you have to go through and figure it all out I was looking at. So we've been doing some air quality monitoring in our house for reasons Um the Glade it's going to come out in an episode.
Speaker 1:Y'all the.
Speaker 2:Glade, the Glade queen lived here before us.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2:Anyway, yeah, crazy Courtney, but anyways, I can't believe we named dropped her, but anyway. So I've been, I've been testing all these different air quality monitors to read different things like VOCs and formaldehyde and what have you. And one of them is actually one of the most more notable brands in the space. It's called Temtop and they're like this is the one, right, all of the research I did said this is the one. But I'm looking at the different options they have and there's like a chart of like seven different products.
Speaker 2:The M10 measures formaldehyde. The M10 Plus does not Make that make sense. You'd think it'd be the other way around. And then they have this whole chart where, like, their most expensive thing actually does less than one of their like $67 offers. Like it just makes no sense.
Speaker 2:And so there again, they're trying to probably accommodate all these different specific use cases. That may make sense to people in the industry. You know from a professional thing, but it's a consumer grade product. So again, doesn't make sense, right? If you're selling a professional grade product, then you can get to that level of nuance because you might have specific trades that know exactly that's what they do all day, every day. But for me I just returned it. I'm like, hey, I know this one that I ended up going with is maybe not the most esteemed, but it's clear, I know how to use it, it has a great interface right and it's giving me within a relatively reasonable rate of accuracy, and so there were some shortfalls to it. But again, I'm not confused about what the actual offer is. So I actually said no to the quote industry leader and went with one less because of the confusing, overwhelming nature of that offer that they were presenting.
Speaker 1:Okay, I love that. So we're going to talk more about like how do you present an offer that's clear and concise? But one of the things I also want to touch on is too low or too high. So when we're talking about pricing, that's either too low or too high. I think we often because no one teaches us this we get confused and we're like well, we're just going to undercut whoever the next competitor is.
Speaker 1:Mistake. You never want to do that. There's really three things you need to be thinking about, and it's offering the right product at the right time to the right person at the right price. Those four things need to be in alignment. And so I think sometimes people who like, if you're getting a lot of no's when you are presenting your offer, it might be that it's too high, but it also could be that it's too low, and I think most people don't know that sometimes in most markets, actually, if you're too low, and I think most people don't know that sometimes in most markets, actually, if you're too low, if you're the lowest option, it's a negative perception.
Speaker 1:It's a negative perception. I don't know if you want to talk about the study that you reference on wine and different bottles and kind of like how pricing affects it, but yeah, I've talked about it. Fascinating, yeah.
Speaker 2:I've talked about it a lot. It was in the the book, the the Power of Habit, I believe. Anyway, so they had a group, two different groups, right, I think it was three actually, but regardless, let's pretend that it was two. And so one group got a 90, like nine zero dollar bottle of wine. The other got a $9, like just new one numerical value $9. So pretty significant difference, right. And they had them try you know the corresponding wines, and then they had them switch rooms and then they tried you know whatever.
Speaker 2:Well, the kicker was is that they took the label off. So they had no idea. All they knew that this was a nine zero, ninety dollar bottle of wine, and this was a nine dollar bottle of wine, unanimously across the board. When they asked the groups which one was the best, all, all of them said the $90 bottle of wine, only to find out that it was actually the same freaking wine in both bottles. And so what it says is that pricing in the rate that we invest in things, is the rate that we value them, and that's why you'll see people go do crazy things like spend $2,000 a night on staying at the Four Seasons, because it says something about you. It's like a status symbol, or being seen in that view, or staying at a certain place, having that exclusivity. So I'm not telling everybody that you need to have a luxury brand.
Speaker 2:That's not what we're saying, but it needs to be priced according to your particular ICA, your particular person that you sell and what they value and what's going to meet them where they're at.
Speaker 1:Exactly, and so sometimes having too low of a price for a market that is more sophisticated is a major mistake. Because we have we invest a lot of dollars on things like wellness, for example, and a lot of the coaches and consultants and the service providers that we see. Their prices are so low that I immediately think that's not for me, that's not going to help, it's not going to work. If your prices are too low, you immediately associate that with cheap. You know prices are too low, you immediately associate that with cheap. You associate it with general, common, not valuable.
Speaker 2:What am I missing? Why is it so inexpensive?
Speaker 1:Exactly, it must not be good is what a lot of people think. So you got to be careful about underpricing and then also overpricing. There is something to be said about market resistance and we talked about that in our previous pricing episode where the market is willing to pay so much to have a problem solved Right, and so some of you, you guys, have to shift the person completely to have an irresistible offer, because you are trying to sell to people who do not have the means to actually invest in your solution, and so that's really important to make sure that you have.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you have to understand too what so's. So we're gonna talk about this in a little bit, that what's the transformation that you're selling? Because if the transformation will warrant the investment, then maybe you can get away with higher price tags. So I'll give you an example of an anecdote, a situation that we experienced Um Kim Kim and I were going to um work with these NLP practitioners. Kim's brother, brian, had gotten NLP certified neuro-linguistic programming. It's a form of you don't need to know what it means, it's just, it's a form of therapy that's more like subconscious rooted, basically Right. And so we were like that's awesome, like we want to do that, like we want to engage in that. It seems like it's helped Brian a lot. So we're always looking for ways to level up and what have you. And so we approached that and we talked to the people he worked with and I'm not throwing stones at them, I kind of am, but basically we had this.
Speaker 1:You're not, but you, chris. Oh my god, it's a soft throw yeah, it's a it's not like a full, it's not a wind up, it's a little flick yeah, this isn't, this isn't that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, this is. I can't yeah, sorry I'm not going. I'm not going full sayung with this rock pro, I'm going more underhand, toss right it's a gentle a gentle toss, so.
Speaker 2:So anyways, um, we we approached them, they had this like they really got to the root of what we're looking for. It was like, oh, you know, like there's some stuff and we all have conditioning and baggage that we carry, like things we've experienced in life little t, traumas, little t, so um, that's what they call it. It was sounding kind of beta, so I'm making fun of it, but anyways, so bottom line is is that we get to the end and like we're ready for the big hoorah, pitch right, and they just like come right out of the gates and they're like, yeah, so it's fifty thousand dollars. We're like say what? Who like what?
Speaker 2:it was supposed to be like like am I working directly with dr phil, like what's happening, like what's going on here and here's.
Speaker 1:Here's the crazy part. We have dropped that same amount for much less, without blinking and batting an eye right at all right, and so it's not like we are not used to being big spenders and investing in our business right, but the way they set it up was so terrible in terms of building the value that we were like because we were coming in thinking, oh, what you're trying to give us is like marriage therapy it's a therapy session exactly oh cool, it's a program, maybe a couple thousand dollars when they drop a 50k.
Speaker 1:I was like what?
Speaker 2:no, I checked out kim's. Like you were so rude I was like I was so perplexed I was, I was mad, I was actually mad. I'm like are you for real? But again, I was so insulted and I was like so I just checked out kim's, like you were, so you were so rude.
Speaker 1:I was like couldn't help it.
Speaker 2:I was so like offended by the fact that cannot hide any of his emotions, like really like you guys are crazy, but why they didn't build value into the offer.
Speaker 1:It was not an irresistible offer, it was a very like anticlimactic pitch, and so I think kind of understanding the psychology behind it and making sure that you're using these five elements we're about to talk about is super important.
Speaker 2:They didn't build it into, so they didn't connect it right. We're going to talk about that Like everything is going to be selling either health, wealth or relationships, and so there really wasn't that. And so if you're going to do a $50,000 play, it better be tied to wealth, like it's going to unlock your earning potential, like you're going to advance so far in your career, your is going to explode, right, and that's how you sell it through that lens. So if you're going to, if you're going to make it just about relationships which is what they did, and then they kind of give you the guilt trip of like but is your wife not worth investing $50,000 in your relationship? I'm like yes, of course she is.
Speaker 1:Your wife also wants to go on a world like what round the world trip.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's what I want to do, but like we don't have a fifty thousand dollar problem we're trying to solve here, like we're just we're just trying to like continue building on what we have, which is pretty great in my opinion, and so I think she agrees. But yes, but again, like that's where the offer comes into play, because if you're like, hey, I'm going to help you become this amazing life coach, it's going to make millions of dollars. This is the investment, fifty thousand dollars. And then you know, here are the pricing plans that we have, so you can break that out, so you're actually making money to pay for it, and then do some price justification on that. Like none of that was presented. It was like, yep, 50 grand, and why are us the money? And it's like whoa.
Speaker 2:So that was just an example of either uh, overpricing, right and also the lack of putting together a really solid offer that actually justified that price presentation.
Speaker 1:But I also think that the problem is really important. Here you said something key we don't have a $50,000 problem If our marriage was on the rocks, if our marriage was like on the rocks and we had tried everything else Right. And we were like this is going to affect our business because now we're business partners, we have kiddos, like you know. For us, we the D word is not. The D word is divorce for everyone thinking other things.
Speaker 2:Y'all nasty.
Speaker 1:Yes, Cause I I hear some of your dudes in the cops. Why you gotta be the dudes Talking some of your dudes in the cops.
Speaker 2:Why do I got to be the?
Speaker 1:dudes, because it is the dudes. All right, I'm talking about the divorce word. For us it's not an option. Yeah, but I think that if you were in that situation where you were absolutely desperate, then maybe a $50,000 price point would make sense If they presented it as the like we save your marriage when everything else has failed. A thousand percent, it's like yes.
Speaker 2:And also we work. So another thing we work with high level executives to save their marriage when everything else has failed.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Because here's the deal they're going to talk to you about.
Speaker 2:look, it's $50,000 or you're splitting tens of millions of dollars, right, so that executives like, take whatever credit card you accept, right, because for me, if I'm a Bezos-level type person, I mean obviously that's far and few between. But let's say you're worth several million dollars, okay, well, now 50 grand, but again, it wasn't in alignment with that at all. Yes, and so you have to be able to understand it. We're going to talk about layers of specificity. So a layer of specificity, like I just said, high level, high net worth, probably somebody that has a lot to lose, right, meaning in the sense of a divorce, right, so for them we help save your marriage. For whom? So who it's for, and then what it actually accomplishes. Those two layers of specificity will help you put together that offer and make sure that you're in the right ballpark as far as what you're presenting in terms of pricing 100%, and when you're selling high ticket, you need to do what Chris just did, which is price justification.
Speaker 1:You've got to justify it. Why are you charging $50,000?
Speaker 1:Well, a great argument to justify the price is not just I'm going to save you 10 mil that's going to cost you in the process of the divorce, but you're going to spend 50K just on the lawyer at least True Right. So divorces are really expensive If you can price anchor and price justify against the expense of just hiring a divorce. Not to mention the drama, the crazy separate, like the splitting of friends, having to figure out you know who's going to get what, and then also like the bitterness and the resentment you know. Pull some statistics about how most people, most couples who get divorced and enter into a second marriage, have a like 70 percent higher chance of divorcing again. Yeah, so it's one of those things where, like, if you present the facts and you price justify, then you can sell a high ticket offer. But for the most part, most people don't do that and they don't do it well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they don't, or they don't do it at all, like these people did, and so again, it was a light toss of a stone. But I've never talked to him since, and I'm not because I'm mad or like butthurt about it, but it's like, guys, I have no interest in even pursuing or following.
Speaker 2:No sense for us to even follow up with that you were just turned off by the sales process yeah, it just, and had no relevancy to me, like it wasn't even room for discussion after that, so that would be one. I think that would also fall into number two here, which I'm going to pull this back up now here, which is gosh, this lack of lack of clarity and the confusion overload.
Speaker 2:so sometimes, again, I would go more back to what we talked about before with the confusing nature of the offer. But sometimes I see a lot of my like engineering type bros, yes, and they over complicate the crap out of everything because people fall in love with how it works, because you built it, and I get that like you fall in love with your program and what it is and what it's not, and so literally you got them and then you keep talking and then you talk yourself out of the sale and you talk yourself out of the potency of the message, because you don't really know what the message is. So you're kind of playing like pin the tail of the donkey with your offering and you're just let's try this, let's try this, let's try this, and next thing, you know, there's no clarity at all. There's no, there's no clear transformation that you're helping them accomplish. The process is overly complicated and clunky. They don't even know what it's going to look like. They're like oh, but that doesn't actually like. That's not who I am Right.
Speaker 2:And so it's really, really important that you have conciseness. And again, that's going to come down to what I talked about before, which is who do you serve and what? In what ways do you serve them? And then your unique process, which is going to have really specific, clear, uh, step-by-step, hopefully, right. If you're a coach, right, it's very clear. But your product, like here's how it works, right, step one, step two, step three right. So those things are really really critically important. But when we talk about a promise or a transformation, especially if they've already tried something before, there's going to be a level of doubt there. And so having your core process be very clear about here's how I help you do it as a qualified guide, like you're the guy that's gonna help me achieve this thing, whatever that is that you help people achieve, whether that's a SaaS platform or whether that's some kind of coaching business or service that you render, or whatever like it's important that people can see clearly here's what you promise, here's who it's for and here's the process by which people achieve it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think sometimes when we're doing coaching reviews because we do a lot of those in TBL Plus for those of you guys who are listening you know that we'll take your sales page or we'll look at your pitch and review it. When we have to wonder what is the offer exactly, that's a problem, right, and so we want to clarify who the offer is for and also what it is.
Speaker 2:And sometimes who it's not for.
Speaker 1:And often who it's not for it's not for, and often who it's not for, and we see a lot of people also misuse bonuses and that they're throwing everything in the kitchen sink into the offer and then I have no idea what the offer is, because you whittled it down some of the bundles you lose the impact and it just does not play well. So I think that's a really big mistake. The other other one, chris, which is number three no urgency, scarcity or reason to buy now.
Speaker 1:This is so critical, you guys. So, especially as what we're seeing right now takes, you know, more and more place in the online space, that we're looking at more evergreen businesses than ever, less launches, less, you know, big kahuna, promotions and a lot of times as service providers, as online of times, as service providers, as online business owners, as course creators, we're like how do we create scarcity when we're just selling something evergreen? And so I think that really thinking through what would push someone over the edge to buy your thing is super important. So we'll throw in. I never use the word throw in in a sales conversation.
Speaker 2:I just said that, never say that, but we will have a cool exactly a cool limited time bonus that goes away.
Speaker 1:So, for example, if we're doing quarterly promotion on one of our programs whether it's our one-on-one coaching program or the group coaching tier in TBL we'll have a bonus that expires. So we'll do hey, when you join our program, you're also going to get these three bonuses that expire within 24 hours as an example, and it'll be a VIP day or a coaching week with us on Voxer.
Speaker 2:They're pretty juicy.
Speaker 1:Super juicy. It might be an asset review. It might be all of our bootcamp replays. So this slide right now that you're looking at is from one of our bootcamps, and so those kind of bonuses that we know are going to be really, really exciting for people are the thing that usually moves the needle. In fact, I would say bonuses would be the thing that a lot of people buy for and we'll, we'll get there in a second, but I think layering scarcity, layering urgency is the price going to go up, go up.
Speaker 1:Are you going to have a bonus go away? Do you have limited seats, limited amount of clients that you can take on? There's many ways in which you can layer scarcity.
Speaker 2:Usually I layer all of those in. If you can, absolutely, if you can, if you can layer them in and the fast action bonuses that we use. So, like what Kim said, if we have an evergreen offer, you can't have a fast action, meaning from the time that they're presented with the offer they have a certain timeframe to get back to you and I would say it usually needs to be like 24 to 48 hours max.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:I never say like, well, I'll get back to you at the end of the month. No, no, no, no, no, because don't let them dictate the terms. You'd be shocked how they'll make it happen, how they'll make it work if it's a juicy enough type of an offer.
Speaker 1:I think bonus is cheer when you give them a deadline.
Speaker 2:I said offer, I meant bonus. Oh okay, the expiring bonus is juicy enough.
Speaker 1:Got it. I think cheer when you actually give them a deadline.
Speaker 2:They have to make a decision. They have to.
Speaker 1:And I think oftentimes especially women.
Speaker 1:We stay on the fence way too long because the fear factor is so intense and we don't believe that we can actually ROI, often on an offer, and so when we're buying something, especially if it's higher mid ticket, we'll think about it forever. You know, I have I have girls who, like you guys, have listened to this podcast for seven or eight years and never have bought anything. It's like, what are you doing? But then you're messaging me about like, hey, anything. It's like, what are you doing? But then you're messaging me about like hey, I'm still stuck in this thing.
Speaker 1:It's like come, come work with us, like we've made it accessible. We've made it available but the fear keeps us stuck and so having a deadline pushes people into making a decision that's yes or no. And I think in sales you have to help people make the yes or no decision quickly. That's part of an irresistible offer, because when someone sees it that is the right fit for your program and is your ideal client, it is an instant yes. It should be an instant yes when it's irresistible meaning it has been priced right. You're speaking to people with a bold promise of the messages on point. You're have a timely offer. So you're solving a problem that's timely. For example, we work with a lot of people in the wellness niche. Oftentimes you know we'll have them think about their promotional calendar and they're bringing a january first message to like thanksgiving. It's like people don't want to think about getting in the best you know shape of their life when they're about to gorge themselves over thanksgiving weekend.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but they will do that at the beginning of the year for us it's going into the summer because we work with so many parents moms specifically in marketing and so for them. They're like, oh, but my kids and I'm not gonna be able to maximize this program right so they're not gonna get the full investment return on their investment right. So that's a big. So we just plan our promotional calendar around that.
Speaker 1:Totally, and we're just like cool.
Speaker 2:So whatever, if you have, and there will be seasonal natures. I'm not saying every business is going to be seasonal in that regard, but I think you will see typical ebbs and flows in any market regardless. It may not be crazy seasonal, but I think you will start to see some of those trends and so you kind of want to build around that right.
Speaker 1:It could also be, you know, a trend in the market, so, for example, timing doesn't always have to be at the beginning or the end of the year or whatever. It could also be like hey, you have a 2019 offer. Like, for example, right now courses are not super hot, especially the really big ones. If you're selling courses right now, you should go check out episode number one of this series, because it's fantastic. It's all about what's trending.
Speaker 2:It'll be linked up above.
Speaker 1:Yes, but with courses it has to be hyper-specific. No one has the capacity or the attention span right now, when they have ChatGPT, to go through a 50-lesson course. They just don't have the appetite to do that. So you have to be strategic with timing and presenting an offer that people want today. Not an offer that people want today, not an offer that they would have bought five years ago. And that's something we work with clients on all the time.
Speaker 2:Yep, all right, next one, yeah so next we have.
Speaker 1:We're getting there. See, you're having the job of Jamie.
Speaker 2:And also we need a young Jamie. You're.
Speaker 1:Jamie and Rogan.
Speaker 2:We need a young Jamie.
Speaker 1:Oh, we need a Jamie.
Speaker 2:All right. So yeah, no clear and compelling bold promise.
Speaker 2:Oh, chris, this one drives me nuts yeah this is where you end up selling a thing and you sell a bunch of features to a thing and you don't really have something that actually sells a desired outcome. And that's really what people are looking for. They really want a desired outcome of some sort right. And so I know you may be like well, I bought my iphone. No, that means you're still buying something, you're buying a status symbol. In fact, there's a reason. I've told the story a billion times, but I'll tell it again just for the for those who haven't heard it. But there is a massive internal debate at Apple about whether to make the back of this laptop right. See how to you the Apple logo. For those listening, I'm pointing to the Apple logo on the back of Kim's laptop and make it upright to the viewer, because what they thought was that when they closed the laptop, that they would say that the Apple logo would be upside down to the actual user, meaning upside down to Kim Right.
Speaker 2:So they had this massive debate and what they realized and what they found was that it was more important to the Apple user that other people saw them using an Apple device, and so that they made the actual logo not for your thing that you spent thousands of dollars on, but of what it showed everybody else. And so it was about your status, right, Health, wealth or relationship. It was about showing that you had the wealth to be able to have. You are an Apple person, and you'll see that people do that. They'll stay loyal to brands sometimes blindly loyal to brands because of what they think it says about them. And so a lot of times, what we end up seeing even if you do sell a physical product is you're selling a thing and you're selling features. You're not selling transformation and benefit, and so what ends up happening a lot of times in that case is what you have to do, is you just have to undercut pricing.
Speaker 2:And that game didn't even work for Walmart.
Speaker 1:That's come at. Sorry, like guys, I just I, my brain's not working today. That's commoditizing your offer. You never want to commoditize your offer because then it's a race to the bottom on price. So you have to think about exactly is how is your offer different, how is your service different, your course different, your coaching different? How is the thing that you sell going to give people transformation? And that is the clear, compelling, bold promise. I think, as women too, we're scared to make a bold promise, and so our clients will come to us.
Speaker 2:But what if it doesn't?
Speaker 1:And it's like yeah, like you know, let's say that you're selling on, you know, copywriting services and the bold promise that they bring us back is like you'll have your copy written in 30 days, and it's like girl, I assume that's the like. That is the minimum that should happen.
Speaker 1:Right, it needs to be like hey, you're going to actually be able to raise your prices and attract a wait list of clients, because your messaging is so dialed in that when your ideal client sees your thing, they're gonna want to pay you right now. That is a bold, compelling promise.
Speaker 2:There's a big difference between a weak promise and a very strong one, whereas I think, dan Kennedy, he won't even take a look at writing your sales copy for less than half a million dollars, plus ongoing commissions for that sales page, which is crazy.
Speaker 1:So it's one of those things where it's like why are you not? You know, and I think it comes down to confidence why are you not confident about your offer? Well, you might need to do it more and get people results. I think sometimes, when you're just getting started, it's hard to have a clear and compelling promise, and that's why, for us, we like working with experts, with people who already are established, who have gotten people results, because all we have to do is position their offers in a way that is more attractive, is teach them how to speak in ways that will activate their ideal client. And so sometimes you gotta get real with yourself and say like, are you having a confidence problem because you haven't gotten people results, or are you having a confidence problem because you haven't invested the time in really thinking through? Okay, these are the results I've gotten people. Why am I letting emotions and fear get in the way?
Speaker 2:And we talked about having a muddy boots or founding member rate right.
Speaker 1:In the previous episode.
Speaker 2:And sometimes you just need to even do stuff I don't want to say pro bono, I don't want to say that but sometimes, at least at a very deeply discounted rate at that founding member or Muddy Boots rate just to prove it, to provide as a use case and get actual feedback as a testimonial. So that seemed to resonate with a lot of people when I said that. And sometimes you just need to do it, even if it's not the grand iteration of what you want to do, meaning I want to render this service online. Well, you might need to roll up your sleeves and go do it in the real world and get experience. In fact, I actually told people this as well. If you're clear on what you want to do in the world in your business, what's to say you don't get a job in that industry to learn the ropes? It's a paid internship at that point and people don't look at it that way.
Speaker 2:I have a friend that literally launched a fashion brand and she has a pretty sizable audience in terms of like. I think now she even has her own physical products that she sells. It was just a fashion blog and she would get advertisers and affiliate links and stuff like that. I think she just launched her own physical products, but she literally got a job working in fashion and retail just so she could learn the industry, because there's so many things you need to learn inventory management, right, like all the things that go into that and so she was like, yeah, I just looked at it as like a paid internship and I'm like that's such a no-brainer, like why wouldn't we do that?
Speaker 2:So I think the internet sometimes has made us so um, blind to the actual real world opportunities of just like hey, spend six months, go work in the industry. You might find after six months you're like I'm glad I didn't waste time going and starting a business in this space, because I don't like it at all, and so that's something that I really recommend doing, and I think it's going to also help you get clear on what the bold promise is that you want to make or how you want to serve people in that space as well.
Speaker 1:A hundred percent. I feel like we have people on two opposite sides of the.
Speaker 1:You have never actually experienced working with a client and providing results and creating a transformation, and you want to charge premium prices and it's like, oh, hold up, that is not in integrity. You can't do that. Um, you need an actual portfolio, you need to show results and you need to be able to stand behind the transformation. This can't be a like oh well, maybe we'll get them resolved someday. Uh-uh, people are, people are paying and they expect results. That's really important.
Speaker 2:It's their money and they want it now. They want it now.
Speaker 1:The other side of the spectrum, which we see a lot with our girls, is they're experts, they freaking, got featured on all the places. They're basically on Oprah. They've worked with celebrities. Am I wrong?
Speaker 2:No, it's true, Worked with like freaking experts, incredible technicians. Actual celebrities. That's real.
Speaker 1:Yes, she's not making that up, but then for some reason you just don't actually feel confident about your offers and you're charging like bottom of the barrel prices. I think the one it's really important to know, like who you are, and apply what we're sharing accordingly.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I seriously. We really important to know, like, who you are and apply what we're sharing accordingly. Yeah, no, I seriously. We've seen people actually we're celebrities and they're like 75 for a personal consultation. I'm like what I could go to the local macy's and they're going to charge me more than that for a one-on-one consultation, like you have actually worked with celebrities, like that's crazy, it's wild so, yeah, super important that you get that one.
Speaker 1:Okay, I actually I know I'm now. I'm so sorry. No, it's all good, I'm just trying to make it engaging. You got a system. I love it.
Speaker 2:All right.
Speaker 1:Okay, so the next two, I think, are tied together.
Speaker 2:All right Bonuses that don't add value to the offer, okay.
Speaker 2:So super this is super, super important, because sometimes I think people they just start throwing the whole kit and caboodle into an offer and they're like, oh to an offer and they're like, oh, my bonuses. And they don't actually add any real value to your offering. And so what we try to think about right, is what are going to be the objections to the offer that we're presenting without the bonuses? The bonuses alone should sell the offer. The bonuses should make it a no brainer. So sometimes what we'll do like think, if we're helping you, let's say we're, let's say the offer presentation was that, uh, we're inviting you to join us in a funnels bootcamp and you've got this massive mental block around tech hurdles. And so let's say we're going to give you some templates that we've already created that you just have to plug and play to build your funnel, right, as a bonus, but a limited time bonus for signing up right now. Or, uh, you get one-on-one tech time with Brian, our lead developer, right on one tech time with Brian, our lead developer, right, so like he's gonna help hold your hand and walk you through or get at least the basic setup for you.
Speaker 2:Some of our group coaching some people are like but I want that like one on one. I don't want to just jump into the group, I want some like one on one time with you and Kim as well, and so we'll say, cool, depending on the tier that you sign up at, like if you full pay or if you do annual versus six months, you'll get more dedicated time, like a VIP day with Kim and I or a couple VIP days, or a Zoom strategy call and oftentimes, guys, they will literally be like they had no intention of joining whatsoever and then go nuts and sign up that night and pay in full, like thousands of dollars, just because of that bonus of being able to get some one-on-one time with Kim and I built in as a bonus to the offering.
Speaker 1:And I think that's so important because the bonuses need to do one of two things they either need to save people time or they need to help them make more money. Two things, very simple. Um, and so I think that a lot of times we over engineer, we owe, like we what is? What is? What is the word I'm looking for? We like overbuild the offer itself and then we have no bonuses left over. Sometimes you have to scale the offer down because it stands on its own as it is. You don't have to add the whole kit and caboodle and then just pluck a feature or two from the offer and make it a bonus. Oftentimes we see that with courses and memberships, where you already have so much in the course and membership that you're like what the heck should be my bonus, and then you end up over delivering it's $49 a month and you've got thousands of dollars of stuff you're basically giving away.
Speaker 2:If you're going to do that, they need to be bonuses, and oftentimes what we try to do. If you do have different offers in your offer suite, like, let's say, for our case, right, so there's a membership level and then there's group coaching, one-on-one coaching we'll always give them a bonus that teases the next thing. Yeah, so if you sign up for you know, tbl academy which shameless pug is the actual like self-study, you know, aspect of what we do, right, um, and then we'll give you as a bonus. You'll get like one month of group coaching included when you sign up and pay in full. And so we're teasing the next thing. Same with group when you sign up, like I said, you get some VIP time with Kim and myself.
Speaker 2:That teases one-on-one, like what that would look like and the value of that. So it can be countering objections or showing off the next thing in your product suite, because you know that's going to. They're going to quickly ascend, I would say, our ascension rate for people that actually engage, meaning they don't just buy and disappear, because that does happen. It's crazy. They'll pay $2,000 and then they just disappear. But for the people that actually buy and engage, I would say our ascension rate is probably over 80%.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's crazy, and I think the majority.
Speaker 2:Reason for that is because we are always teasing and giving them bonuses for the next thing. So it's palpable, it's tangible, they can taste it and taste it and they get to see the benefit from it. They'll come out of a strategy call with us or one-on-one time and they'll be like, okay, my goal is to make I'm gonna go from two to $4,000 a month over the next four months and we're like you could triple that. And we give them a strategy to do it and they do it.
Speaker 1:It's just like this podcast, except you guys are on the other side how to apply these strategies to your specific business and be like hey, this is, this is a problem that you have in your offer. This these are a couple ideas for bonuses. This is how you could charge more. This is how you could add an upsell or a cross sell. This is how we would do the math and reverse for you and say okay, how much is your service? Cool, this is the amount of clients you need to hit your first X amount of milestone. Um, and so I think that's really important, which brings us to the end spot in this episode.
Speaker 1:So, guys, today's episode is brought to you by none other than TBL Plus, our group coaching program. So, if you are an online business owner who already has traction in your business and you want to grow consistently, you want to start attracting more clients and customers that are your dream people through content. We have our proprietary content to customers method, which is what we teach inside of group coaching, so we're super excited for you to join us. There's going to be an application link below or you can text the word TBL plus to the number on the screen. That's TBL plus and for those of you who are listening on audio, that's 866-498-2080, 866-498-2080. That's our direct business line. You can actually text back and forth with Chris and I will tell you about the program, whether it's the right fit.
Speaker 2:I got my phone right here.
Speaker 1:I'm ready. We'd love to have you join us. It's a group of mission-focused entrepreneurs. Most of us are faith-based and we're just coming together as a collective to really level up our content, turn it into customers consistently and make sure that we're positioning our business for growth and for scale. We have people from all walks of life and multiple different industries, and so we'd love to see you in there.
Speaker 2:Let's go All right. Next, we got too many bonuses no bonuses at all. We kind of talked about that. So sometimes he would just throw the whole, like him said, the whole kid caboodle in there. So too many bonuses are no bonuses at all. Okay, so we kind of already touched on this, so we're going to just skim through that one Others, so trying to sell more than one offer on the same page. We talked about that over complicating the offer.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh guys, please don't do that. When you have a sales page, do not sell more than one offer.
Speaker 2:It's very confusing adding random content or opt-ins to the sales page. Guys, don't get, don't show them the door. We have so many people that like it'll pop up and be like but you can just get this free thing instead. And it's like no, no, maybe an exit intent pop, there's something that you can do where you're like hey, they're about to leave, so let's try to save that in some way. But you'd be shocked how many times we have people that will be like read this blog. Instead, it's like no, no, no, no, no, no, no, they're here to buy. Keep that the focus.
Speaker 1:There should never be a lead magnet pop-up on your sales page. Never the amount of people and this is guys it's not shaming you, it's, it's calling you up so that you have conversions, so you can make more money. Because the amount of people, chris, that we see, who have freaking exit pops that show people a lead magnet or a free workshop or a blog post, no, you don't want to do that you should have no menu items on your sales page.
Speaker 1:There should be no social media buttons and there should not be any exit path to a lead magnet or a blog post on your sales page this is just for your sales page. This isn't your home page or your services page.
Speaker 2:We're talking about your sales page yep, all right, no price anchoring and no price justification. We've talked about this already. What would you say?
Speaker 1:though briefly with price anchoring.
Speaker 2:That is really important, especially if you're selling high we talked about in the last episode at length, so I would go back and listen to that. But I think the biggest, I think the biggest thing is you need to understand the value associated with what you're offering. You need to justify the price to yourself and that means you need to figure out, like okay, what am I actually delivering here? If it's a six month sprint, like I need to figure out the time associated with that and then I need to actually make the customer aware of the time that I'm actually investing in that. So price justification is really building value in the sale and again we talked about in the last episode. So if you want to dig more into that, I would absolutely go back and check that out.
Speaker 1:I think one of the ways we could do that, too, really easily is doing the math of ROIing. Yes, you know like if you're charging $200 for a chiropractic adjustment as an example, well, back surgery is going to cost you ten thousand dollars.
Speaker 2:So yeah, reverse engineer the investment.
Speaker 1:Save the marriage situation is so important yeah.
Speaker 2:So price anchoring against other things or against other services that you offer is the way to go. Um, not address, not addressing objections with your offer. So don't try to sell around objections, sell through objections. So if you know there's going to be a common objection that comes up, just address it right.
Speaker 2:Like one of our uh, of our we talked about a dietitian client before but she's like some people don't want to be on a restricted diet for a long time and I'm like okay, well, you get to choose your suck, because you can stay sick and you can continue to eat the food you want. Or you can do this for a limited time where I'm going to put you on a six week limited, restricted diet and this is going to help you grossly amplify your healing journey and catalyze the process, and then we can start to reintroduce foods and so on and so forth. You get back to normal. So you just sell through them and address it head on. If there's a reason for it, if there's a reason why you need to be on a restrictive diet, make that clear. It doesn't work without it. Or it works much faster because you do it Great, but sell through it.
Speaker 2:And so some people will be like well and they try to talk around it or sell around it. And you know it's like you can't have McDonald's and have your health as well if you're not, if you're in a compromised health space.
Speaker 1:Exactly. Or you pretend like it doesn't exist, like, oh, it's going to be fun. You know, the restricted diet is not a big deal. It's like it's going to suck and that's OK. But here's what's on the other side of that. It's you getting your energy back. It's you finally breaking free from all these infections. It's you actually being able to like pick up your kids without losing your breath. You got to sell people on the benefit and, like you said, don't pretend like it doesn't exist.
Speaker 2:Yep, all right, zero clarity on the transformation. We've kind of talked about that with the bold promise. Yes, we already kind of talked about that, but you need to have a clear, bold promise. There needs to be a clear transformation. You need to show people what your product or offer is going to provide them and what does the other side of things look like from where they're at right now, and make that very clear.
Speaker 2:Selling features, not benefits this is probably one of the biggest things that we see is people they're selling features, but you're not telling me why it matters. So a little bit of a ninja strategy you can utilize is, if you're going to bring up a feature, always do so that you get seven lessons to learn about your unique personality. So that, what? So that you can actually utilize some of your unique attributes, leverage it to your benefit and make more sales, whatever. I literally just riffed that whole thing. But you always bolt on so that and it can be redundant, it doesn't matter. I've literally would just use so that, so feature so that, and then add a benefit, add benefits, but force yourself to add a benefit. If you're going to talk about features because it works, okay. Next, we are rocking and rolling here I think we already talked about this the popular mistakes Okay, and rolling here I think we already talked about this the popular mistakes Okay. Do you want to talk about real quick the five key elements of profitable offers?
Speaker 1:I love it. I think that this is, and you can also bring up the more visual aesthetically pleasing version.
Speaker 2:Let's do that one, because I think it's a little bit easier to follow.
Speaker 1:But, okay, we talked about all the mistakes and of course, it's going to lead us to the solution and a lot of this we've already kind of covered, as we're talking about the mistakes, but this is kind of your checklist. This is a place where you really want to think through. Okay, these are the five things I need to include in my offer. The first one is a promise. Right, we talked about the bold promise, we talked about the transformation. You do not want to have a weak promise and I don't know, let's say that it's organic gardening, right, as an example. Maybe you teach people how to start their gardens, and the number one thing people are requesting is they want to learn how to grow their own tomato, and so we have a joke in that space.
Speaker 1:I'm a big gardener and Chris is like yeah, you're $200 tomato.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we have $200 200 tomatoes.
Speaker 1:It's so true um I have literally put in.
Speaker 1:The amount of work that I put in for kim to grow 200 tomatoes is unbelievable but I think, with the promise you know you, you don't go in and and you tell people oh, I'm gonna teach you how to grow a single tomato, you know like successfully, yay. No, you want to have a bold promise and show people hey, I'm going to show you how to grow pounds and pounds of abundant food in your backyard, even if you have nine square meters of space, right? So really think about what is it that your market wants, what is it that your ideal client wants, what are the pains and the problems that they're experiencing? And then create a bold promise.
Speaker 1:Most of you guys who are listening to the podcast are experts, and so a lot of times, you already create incredible results and incredible transformations for your clients. You just don't talk about them enough. And so here, sitting down, thinking through you know, pulling out a piece of paper and being like, okay, what is my bold promise? I help X person, right? So maybe it's I help busy moms, or I help entrepreneurial women, or I help C-suite executives do what, right? What is that bold thing? What is the transformation? What is the actual exciting promise that you have to share? That's got to be number one.
Speaker 2:Yep, and that will all dictate your positioning. So, like we talked about with the NLP practitioner folks that I underhand tossed some stones at, so, thinking about your person and your promise, it will dictate what your position needs to be Right. So how are you positioning your offer in the marketplace? Where do you fit in the marketplace? And so all of that is going to have a layer of specificity, like this is what I do, how I do it and to whom I do it for, and then that'll really dictate the positioning in the marketplace, which then dictates what your pricing and I think, if you go to the next slide, we kind of broke down a little bit of what each one is so that everyone can kind of follow along.
Speaker 1:I should have done that from the beginning. But as we go through each one, if you go to the second one, there we go. So promises that transformation positioning is how is it new, different or the logical next step. Ok, so, for example, from this podcast episode, the logical next step for quite a few of you is to get into one of our coaching programs and implement this alongside us, right alongside a coach who can actually walk this with you, who can give you customized advice for your particular business, who can say okay, you're doing this right, you're not doing this right. This is the reason why people are saying no, let's flip it.
Speaker 2:I really want to emphasize how it's new or different. Yeah, because we call this solution awareness, and so most, most of you in the marketplace right now there's very rampant knowledge of what you offer. Already there's many competitors that offer what you offer, and so a lot of us are presenting as though that's not the case and we're not telling people why our thing is different, aka better. And so most times seriously, guys, most times when I work with people and I help them figure out how they're different or how this is a new solution to an already existing marketplace, you'd be shocked. We don't have to do a ton of crazy ads. People are like, oh, I've just run some ads and like figure out an ad strategy or some bro hacking and what have you? It's like no, no, no, we can add probably. I mean, I've seen it happen where we add half a million dollars in revenue, literally just repositioning you did this last year with a client.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we did that and so we're still working on building some of these things out. But it was how are you different than everybody freaking else? So you have to think about that. Like, people are seeing advertisement for what you do every single hour of every single day, and if you're not showing people how this is a new opportunity, off of the current opportunities, or how it's at least different than the other opportunities and that could be a variety of different ways in which you're doing that it could be your mechanism, it could be to whom you serve, or a combination of the two, right? So different approach.
Speaker 2:I always use the example of orange theory. I think that's a really relevant example. So they're like hey, the reason you have not gotten results at the gym, the reason you're still a flabby butt and you're out of shape you don't have washboard abs is because you haven't utilized the orange theory. And what that means is this it means you keep your intensity level in the orange range no-transcript. And people are like ah, that's why it's not my fault. It was because I didn't have this different, new approach called the orange theory and they took their process so far. They named the whole company after it. So that would be an example, and you could apply it to your specific business.
Speaker 2:Or if you don't have something that you know makes you different, there probably is a unique flavor to how you approach things, a unique flavor to how you do things. You need to be able to verbalize that to people and communicate that. Specifically, if there's problems that have not been fully solved and there's always somebody underserved in a marketplace, always, always, always, there's always somebody that feels like, yeah, this didn't work for me because x, y and z. So finding that opportunity, starting with your person and figuring out how your different or unique solution helps them in ways that others did not help them, that's where you're going to stand out in your marketplace and start grabbing people and attracting people to pay you money and a lot of it can I just say like you definitely sound like the official spokesperson for orange theory.
Speaker 1:Like you nailed that. That was so ridiculous I've used the example. People are gonna think that we're affiliates or something we don't even go to the gym. It's just hilarious. But it's such a good example of like an oversaturated market which is gyms, um, so I love that. So be the orange theory in your niche. That is the takeaway, especially if you're a service provider f45, did the same thing.
Speaker 2:They're like, hey, this worked really well, let's make the f45 for sure which sounds like a jet fighter plane, but apparently people love it. So yeah, and all these unique like gyms are coming out, or like there's a co-work slash gym right meeting different people, so you just have to be different you cannot be the same freaking thing and charge the same amount of money when people are more established than you. It's just a watered-down message totally, but there's a.
Speaker 1:I don't want people to think, oh my gosh, there's already all these dietitians or there's already all these fitness coaches. No, no, no, like. What we're saying is that you need to find your own flavor, like I said your own mechanism so that you stand out, not that you have to invent a whole new product.
Speaker 2:That's not always the case, it's just about positioning it. Most of the time, people already have it. They're just not even aware of it you have your own unique flavor of genius. You don't even know why you have, don't.
Speaker 1:You don't even know what exists which is why we have a job having geniuses is that, yeah, they don't realize like their approach is actually genius, because it's they just how they think and it's why we have a job, because we pull that out of people and that's our job to do, and so we want to pull it out of you guys too. So, scarcity, why should you?
Speaker 2:Oh wait pricing, pricing what?
Speaker 1:is the cost Price anchor. You know how many people are just not confident in the. I felt that way for a long time. I was like, oh my gosh, I got to sell something that's more than a hundred dollars. I'm going to die it Like, listen, this is worth it because, like Chris said, when you price justify to yourself, it's a lot easier.
Speaker 1:How many times have we told clients like wait, okay, hold up. You're charging $300 for full service. You know marketing services or social media management. How long did it take you to learn that skill? Oh my gosh, you know it took me five years or I invested X amount or I went to school for if they're, if they're trading $300 a month for that service.
Speaker 1:Sorry I didn't qualify, but justifying to yourself and being like how much would someone that's a small business owner have to pay to hire somebody you know straight out of college and pay them full time to manage their social media? A lot, probably at least $50,000, right so? Now all of a lot, probably at least $50,000, right. So now, all of a sudden, you know, the $300 a month doesn't seem like anything.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I remember I helped one of our clients she does social media management and I was like you're gonna use that the employment?
Speaker 1:angle to pitch yours. Yeah, that's what we did.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and literally I think she went from like charging Less than a thousand. We five extra prices yeah we five extra pricing just being like okay. So not only is it a salary, but it's also the benefits and everything else, and also easy to breach and say hey, I don't want to work with this person anymore.
Speaker 2:Whereas if you fire somebody now, you've got severance or unemployment contributions and so on and so forth. So we literally anchored it against what it would cost to and we've actually done this. By the way, we've actually done this with some of our one-on-one coaching, where we anchored it against the cost of like tuition. It's like wait, so you'll invest $150,000 in a college education for maybe a piece of paper that's going to allow you to get a $50,000 entry-level job at best, and yet you won't invest $10,000 in a business that has unlimited earning potential and you get to do it on your own terms. Make that make sense, bro.
Speaker 1:Exactly.
Speaker 2:Right, make that make sense. And so when we challenge people with stuff like that, they're like, yeah, and then immediately the wire is $10,000 and being like you're a hundred percent right. So you have to make people we get so. We get so stuck in our lens and our paradigms, like, of what things are and what things cost and what things should be, and so sometimes you have to kind of rattle people's paradigm a little bit, yeah, to get them to see things through what it actually is, which is reality in our case of dude, your business and I even break it down further. I even show them like, hey, what's the cost? This is a thing you can do, by the way, like if you're walking through and you have a one-on-one sales capacity, do math with people do math.
Speaker 2:So I remember we went to um. I remember we went and did a um. Uh, what are those? The timeshare, you know the trial thing where you get like the night or two for free yeah and then you get.
Speaker 2:And then you, you know you gotta go to the tour though, right. So I actually went from like the lens of learning. I'm like let me see how they do this. And what was crazy is they got. They'll ask you qualifying questions.
Speaker 2:You know how often you travel, how often you vacation this, and then they show you all the fancy resorts and this and that, the, the lavish you know, and they ask you like what would this, you know, for you and your wife, or you and your kids? Imagine yourselves here like the emotional cell. But then they give you the logical cell, right. So it's emotion, then logic. That's how, that's how the best sales people, that's how they do it. So they sit you down and they literally start having you do math. Well, do you guys travel? How often do you travel? Like twice a year? So they like, do that, okay, okay. So you're already doing it. Like, well, what if you did this? And then this puts you here and that beautiful place that we just showed you, and you're actually going to spend about the same amount of money and it's going to force you hold you accountable to travel, which is inconsistent. You might find an Airbnb that smells funky or is dangerous in the middle of some really janky place. So you know what you're getting. You get to go to all these lavish places. It's through the Hilton umbrella, so you know the Hilton product, right. And then you're actually gonna spend the same amount of money anyways, and you can actually gift it to somebody else and they can use it too. So, like they had us do the math with them, justify it that way, so you can do that. We've done that with coaching. Like we had a big in person situation, right, and it was like, guys, how many sales do you think you'll get from this bootcamp? They're like hundreds of more sales, hundreds. And we're like, cool, well, what's that worth to you? Like, do the not do the actual math? And I can see them calculating this and that, and I'm like, well, the making prior to coming to this exactly. So you have to like, help people. We walk them to the sale, we walk them understanding the real value of something, and that's a really good opportunity.
Speaker 2:And you may find right now, guys, that selling on a static sales page your offer, it requires some one-on-one time until you really figure out how to make it irresistible. Have your sales page, schedule a call, have your sales page schedule a zoom chat or whatever the case may be. Or have your whole page schedule a call, have your sales page schedule a zoom chat or whatever the case may be. Or have your whole dynamic be like hey, just text me and let's talk, and then that gives you the opportunity to figure that out, like what works best, is it? How am I going to price justify, what are the bonuses people are looking for?
Speaker 2:Sometimes we just put up a sales page and then we're so ironclad and focused on the metrics. Well, my conversion rate is 2.8. And it's like yeah, but, dude, if you just hop on the phone, your conversion rate probably 65%. Like, do you want to make money now? Like, sure, we can do that long-term and run ads to that. But sometimes you just need to roll up your sleeves and just be like hey, let me figure out how to sell this thing and let me figure out what people are really looking for. And so I think that was the perfect example of the timeshare situation. Lot from that sweet.
Speaker 1:I love it cool.
Speaker 2:Thank you for listening to my ted talk I just let it rip, because it was good. Thank you for attending my ted talk all right, I'll be here I'll be here all week, okay, scarcity we talked about this.
Speaker 1:Why should you?
Speaker 2:buy now. So 53 of our buyers. I made fun of people using data and then I'm literally like 53 of our buyers. So 53 of our buyers are scarcity deadline buyers, and what that means is that they wait to the last possible second to buy, and probably for us it's because they're busy business owners. And so what we have found is that if we don't infuse scarcity in some way or deadline in some way whether that's limited seats, available, prices expiring, bonus expiring, whatever there's not enough to push them over the edge because, again, they're managing so many things in their life, whatever, there's not enough to push them over the edge because, again, they're managing so many things in their life.
Speaker 2:So, to make your offer truly irresistible, you have to infuse scarcity in some way. You do not want people to be like yeah, I'll think about it. Nope, nope. Scarcity forces them to make a decision, and that's going to be your best friend, because the last thing you want to have to do is follow up with somebody six months from now and be like are you still thinking about it? Like, can I get you to vote? No, give them a deadline. It's yes or no, and usually, building in that scarcity or deadline is how you do it.
Speaker 1:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:All right, kim, only take the next one. Sorry, I'm just riffing over here. All right, bonuses.
Speaker 1:What else do you get? What is the added value? I think the magic number, especially for listen guys. This Podcasts is for online business owners. I know there's going to be people on YouTube who listen who are not in the online space and this is not going to make a lot of sense to you. But bonuses, something we use a lot online, whether it's a service or course or coaching or membership, whatever it might be sub stack subscription, low ticket subscription, you know, whatever it's something we always add to. Again, really figure out a way to move people beyond the the like fence factor right, we want to get them off the fence.
Speaker 1:And so for bonuses, we really think the magic number tends to be three. Yeah, at the most five, but I think in this market three, because five is too many calories for people to like. Oh my gosh, I need to figure out. You know all these five things? No, just usually give them three.
Speaker 2:Um one of our coaches has really fast actions. Yeah, and we can figure that out later. I think that's an advanced thing, but for right now.
Speaker 1:Three is great. Um, one of our coaches always said use a sandwich method, so make sure that you have the first bonus is usually your best bonus the middle bonus is like good, it's good, but it's not like the thing that people want the most.
Speaker 1:And the third bonus is like your second best. So usually people remember the first thing you said and the last thing you said. They don't always remember the thing in the middle. It's not like they're not going to remember your bonus, but that's usually a little bit of a pricing psychology to like think about how you present your bonuses.
Speaker 2:Same with bundles If you sell a bundle of something, they remember the first few, they forget the middle few and they remember the last few. And so we put the weakest one in the bundle. We put them in the middle.
Speaker 1:But that doesn't mean your bonuses are weak, it just you know. For us, let me give you an example. For us it might be a strategy session and at the time it might be the thing like they want to jump on a Zoom call with us and we want to talk about their business. So we have a 30 minute strategy session that might be the first one that we lead with, if we feel like that's the most valuable to them and this is going to take some time of you actually pitching this and getting some feedback. The second one might be, let's say, like a VIP day on Boxer with us or an asset review, something that's still super valuable, that they're gonna love, but it's not necessarily gonna be the thing that they're super excited about. And then the last one might be like a VIP coaching week on Voxer with us, or it might be something like I don't know our bootcamp replays.
Speaker 1:Depending on the offer and what people want most, we will switch the way that we present it. So the middle one might be a tech call with Brian, or the middle one might be the bootcamp replays, depending on how we feel the market is shifting in this particular time. And so we will test this out and play with. You know, what do people want now? And we'll come to a point where we're like oh, we validated this bonus. It's amazing. It's accelerating people's results like crazy. So we're going to showcase it as often as we can. Results like crazy. So we're going to showcase it as often as we can. And because we do a lot of, you know, back and forth kind of sales conversations through Instagram or via text, we get to see in real time. Oh, this resonated. Clearly. This resonated because once we pulled out the bonuses, they were in or we have a little bit of work to do here.
Speaker 2:Right, I'm excited for one of our future episodes. I have our entire sales page process built out and we were going to cover it today, but we've already exceeded our time not but the cool thing is this, though. The cool thing is this, though. I showed it to one of our new group coaching clients you can tease it shout out the truian. Yeah. So basically what it does, guys, is it takes everything we talked about and it actually builds it into a 12-step sales page process.
Speaker 1:I love it.
Speaker 2:In addition to that, it layers in emotion logic we talk about. You buy with emotion. When you buy something for the husbands in the room, you'll totally jive with what I'm about to say here. When you buy something, you're like, oh crap, my wife is going to kill me. You come home. What do you tell her?
Speaker 1:you tell her you don't be like, but I was so excited. Babe. You're like, but logical reason. Well, we do this too.
Speaker 2:I don't know what you're saying, but let me do it too. Let me do it because you're a shopper.
Speaker 1:Great deal, no we do girl math we'll be like, but it was on sale kim's thing is she's gonna sell things to cover the thing that she paid for.
Speaker 2:So she'll put like three things on marketplace because she's like well, I'm actually breaking even here, so that's how she'll. But again, the point is, is that we justify?
Speaker 1:does it work or not?
Speaker 2:it works and she does it. She actually delivers like within a day.
Speaker 1:I'm like I bought this two thousand dollar thing, but but she'll, but she'll like everything that she sells.
Speaker 2:It's like perfectly positioned and like. It looks like it's out of the the macy's catalog. So, yeah, so, but we justify it with logic, right. And so when we're taking people through our sales process, you want to hook them with that emotional, strong, transformation, bold, promise, whatever. And then logic you want to reinforce that. And then boom you, you power, stack that with some bonuses, but then also with your scarcity and deadlines. And so the entire 12 step sales page process meets all of those criteria.
Speaker 2:And then then some yeah, which it also infuses what we call the four buyer types, and we'll get into that right now.
Speaker 1:But if you're in tbl plus, we're actually working on a custom gpt right now to help you implement all this super quickly, so it's going to be awesome. Show them the the sales page breakdown real quick, just as a teaser. I gotta pull it up because you were in you were talking and I felt bad calling it out, but I was like you gotta show if you're in tvl plus.
Speaker 2:We actually included this. You can leave the bottom right. Where did you include what we?
Speaker 1:just uh, right there it's 12 step sales letter, 12 step sales page formula. Okay, let me see if this is the one.
Speaker 2:I think that's the one this is the actual cheat sheet for it.
Speaker 1:Oh wait, don't show all of it. Don't show all of it, just a little bit you can't show show the the diagram that you have pulled up. I think it's. It's not on here yet. Okay, I'll give you some time to pull it up. I'll talk. We'll talk amongst ourselves.
Speaker 2:Kim's gonna chit chat. I'm gonna hide it. I'm gonna hide my screen again, but I do think so. Literally I sent, I gave this to truian. Shout out to truian he's one of our new clients and this guy, I've never seen somebody devour it. He went nuts.
Speaker 1:it's awesome because what all of this is doing, guys, is just, it's building the ideal sales conversation so you can have a sales conversation, you know, individually with each one of your clients or your prospects. But at some point you want to be able to like, either pre-sell someone or, ideally, sell them automatically, which means people are, you know, joining your services, joining your coaching programs, without having to have that extra touch. And so when you take all these elements of the five, uh irresistible offer, uh kind of formula that we've been talking about, and then you plug that into an actual sales page that moves people Every section moves people into the next step and gets them excited, builds desire for the offer, gets them to say absolutely Heck, yes, I'm ready to buy. That's what the sales page formula on the 12 step sales letter formula actually does.
Speaker 2:Absolutely Okay, quickly, quickly. Yes, this is just a tease, I'm moving. I'm moving because if I leave him guys.
Speaker 1:He's just gonna nerd out for two hours.
Speaker 2:I'm moving us real quick. So I talked about this right. So this section infuses the emotional argument this is the logic argument. This is the scarcity argument. These are all. So we're grabbing attention, identifying the problem, telling the story, blah, blah, blah, blah, introducing solutions. So these are the actual 12 steps and then the buyer types. And then this actually will address each one of the four buyer types throughout the process. So you're literally hitting all and ticking all the boxes.
Speaker 1:Here's the thing, though, before they're ready for all of this, you gotta hide it. That's enough. That's enough teasing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's all you get.
Speaker 1:That's all about why you're undercharging and why you need to stop doing that in order to actually have a business that is profitable and not just an expensive hobby or a charity. So we're gonna have here in the end screen that video up so that you watch that one next, if you've enjoyed this one so far, let us know in the comments what questions you have about pricing and positioning and creating an irresistible offer. We love hearing you. Your feedback helps us create the next episode and we're really doing this for you guys, so we want to make sure that you absolutely love every single one of the episodes.
Speaker 1:Don't forget, if you are ready to level up, if you've already had, you know, really good traction in your business and you want to scale up, you want to take your business to the next level and you want to do it through content and online marketing, check out TBL plus. You're going to absolutely love the program Um and we'd love to have you in there. But I also want to say please subscribe to the show. 80% of you guys who watch this yeah podcast have not subscribed yet, so make sure to subscribe. It really helps us be on mission with us to help, you know, 10 000 small businesses grow with content marketing um share it with a friend and give us a thumbs up.
Speaker 2:We have a huge, ambitious goal to get this new channel to 100 000 subscribers by the end of the year oh, oh, he's declaring it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we're declaring. Oh my gosh, that freaked me out so like like subscribe, comment, comment.
Speaker 2:It tells the algorithm like this is good, so please watch this and share it with your friends.
Speaker 1:Share it with your friends.
Speaker 2:I actually had a friend say like I shared it with a couple friends, so that's amazing.
Speaker 1:Go watch that episode next. We love you. We'll see you in the next one. Un beso Bye for now. See you guys.
