Developing Meaning
A podcast about healing trauma and finding meaning.
Have you ever wondered what your therapist has figured out about life's big questions?
Join psychiatrist Dr. Dirk Winter as he speaks with colleagues, therapists, and other healers about what they have learned from their clinical work about how to heal trauma and build more meaning and purpose into our lives.
Developing Meaning is NOT CLINICAL ADVICE and is NOT AFFILIATED WITH ANY INSTITUTIONS. It is intended to play with ideas that are emerging, fringe, and outside of the mainstream in order to discover the meaning of life.
Produced by Dirk Winter and Violet Chernoff
Developing Meaning
#21: Former Marine Beau Laviolette Combines EMDR, IFS and Nature Retreats to Heal Veterans and Create Meaning.
What happens when you combine military experience, personal recovery, cutting-edge trauma therapies, and the healing power of nature? Beau Laviolette's remarkable journey answers this question through a story of transformation and purpose.
From the sugar cane fields of Louisiana to the Marine Corps and back again, Beau's path wasn't straightforward. After military service ended unexpectedly due to seizures, he faced addiction struggles that eventually led him to recovery and a calling to help others. This deeply personal experience became the foundation for his approach to trauma healing, combining Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing (EMDR) with Internal Family Systems (IFS) therapy using the Syzyge method.
Beau takes us through his discovery of these powerful modalities and how they complement each other, particularly when working with complex trauma. While EMDR helps process traumatic memories, IFS provides the framework to understand the protective parts of ourselves that develop in response to trauma. This combination creates a comprehensive approach that addresses both neurobiological and psychological aspects of trauma recovery.
The conversation ventures into fascinating territory as Beau describes his veteran-focused nature retreats. These immersive experiences take healing beyond the constraints of office therapy, allowing veterans to "unplug, connect, and let go" in natural settings. He explains how nature inherently contains qualities that facilitate access to what IFS calls "self-energy" – our core self characterized by compassion, curiosity, and calm.
Developing Meaning is NOT AFFILIATED WITH ANY INSTITUTIONS and is NOT INTENDED AS MEDICAL ADVICE.
Theme Music by The Thrashing Skumz.
Produced by Dirk Winter MD PhD and brought to you by Consilient Mind LLC.
Welcome to Developing Meaning, a podcast where we seek to understand mental health from a perspective of meaning rather than psychopathology. I'm your host, dr Dirk Winter, board-certified adult and child psychiatrist. I work in community mental health and in private practice in New York City and am on the psychiatry faculty at Columbia. I am a mainstream psychiatrist who has recently become fascinated with alternative healing approaches and want to take you along as I participate in experiential trainings, learn new models of the mind and interview fascinating healers I meet along the way about how they create meaning in their own lives and in the lives of their clients. This is a show for mental health professionals, clients and anyone seeking to build more meaning and purpose into our lives. This show is intended to explore serious topics in a fun and playful and informative manner but is not affiliated with any institutions and is not intended to be mental health advice.
Dirk:mental health advice. Hello, welcome back Meeting Seekers. Today I am thrilled to bring you a very cool conversation with Beau Laviolette, coming to you from Baton Rouge, louisiana. He is a former Marine who had his own experience in recovery and then became an expert in trauma, a social worker, learning EMDR, eye movement, desensitization and reprocessing, and then learning IFS, internal family systems therapy and becoming a trainer in Bruce Hersey's Syzygy Institute, which has developed a really interesting way of combining IFS and EMDR to heal trauma. And then he has gone on to lead nature retreats for veterans healing trauma in nature, which is something that I am now fascinated with.
Dirk:So you will hear Bo's story how he got to find and learn and then assemble all these different tools and how he puts them together and how he uses all of this to think about and create meaning. And if you listen to the end, you will find out why, if you ever end up in prison, you should become a coffee bean, not an egg or a carrot. And there's lots of other reasons to listen to it, to this episode. This is a really fun and deep and informative episode.
Dirk:I learned a lot. He was my Syzygy Institute teacher for one of the trainings there and I've gone on now to become an assistant teacher in that institute also. So I am part of that group, enjoying being part of that community. So, without further ado, let me present to you my conversation with Bao Laviola Very happy to have you on my podcast. Thank you so much for making the time. You were really a great teacher of mine in the Bruce Hersey-Sysigy combining IFS and EMDR training series and it just sounded so interesting what you're doing with being a teacher, working with veterans, working with trauma, doing retreats. So I'm really curious, like what is your niche in the big wide world of mental health? Like what is your professional life look like?
Beau:Thank you for having me and it's really good to do this. It's an opportunity. Thank you so much. Yes, I am in Louisiana. I'm in Baton Rouge, louisiana, although I lived in New Orleans. New Orleans is about an hour east of me, so we're really really right here. I'm here, I'm in private practice and I see myself as an IFS EMDR therapist. That's my niche, that's my focus, which it has taken me some time to get to this point. I didn't really realize I was going to be doing this, or I was searching for a niche and I was searching for a focus, and it just sort of happened. And so that's how I look at myself as a trauma therapist, and I use these two powerful modalities really together to help me help my clients.
Dirk:Do you see mainly patients one-on-one Do you do like? What percentage do you do one-on-one clients work and what percentage do you do retreats or teaching?
Beau:Yeah, as of right now, that has changed. That's a good question. I would say it's about half and half right now. Half of the time I'm seeing clients and the other half of my time I'm working with therapists in some type of capacity, whether it's a training or consultation or my consultation groups, and I would say maybe right now 25, 30% of the time I'm doing my nature retreats. Obviously, I'm constantly growing that and expanding that. That's where it is. I think people ask me that Am I ever going to stop seeing clients and just do these trainings? I love trainings or working with therapists. I love it and I would say I don't think I would ever stop seeing clients. I think that keeps me able to be a good teacher. I really believe the reason I am able to teach and it keeps me on my toes, it keeps things fresh, it keeps me learning is because of the work I'm doing with my clients.
Dirk:It's so different to be in the room clinically and being a teacher and combining those, I agree. I think that's very nice, very important. I want to get your personal story of how did you become a healer therapist, starting, I guess, with the very beginning, and where were you born.
Beau:Yeah, yeah, okay, let's go back. I am from Louisiana, so I always I grew up in a very small town in Louisiana, very, very small town. And it's funny you asked me that question, because right when you did that I had this image, this memory came up of me in my bedroom on. I was on, I had a chalkboard and I was teaching my stuffed animals and I think my mom forced my sister to be in my class, which she didn't want to be, but she had to be, and I always, at heart, love teaching. And there's so much more obvious I can say about my story. But it really started early on but then time went on and I experienced some actually personal issues in my life where I really struggled with some things. I struggled with addiction. I remember I am a veteran, which is one reason why I work with veterans, and I served in the Marine Corps and that kind of came all around at the same time.
Dirk:You know, the alcohol increased and really struggled when I got out of that experience and I remember and did you go straight from high school into into the military, or did you do college, or what was that? What did that?
Beau:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, good, good. So I, I'm growing up in this small town and you know, from kindergarten to high school to, you know, 12th grade, I'm growing up with a. I had a pretty good family. You know we were nothing's perfect, but I had a pretty good family, a supportive family.
Beau:My family actually formed sugar cane, so I grew up I actually grew up on a sugar cane farm and making sugar right. So after I graduated high school, I decided I had some options. People either went to school, they went to college, or they went to work on the farm or they fished. And I did not want, I wanted, I wanted to get far away from school as possible. I, I did not like school. I, I didn't do good in school. Um, and so I'm, I'm well, I'm going to do the family thing right. It was great, it was a good experience, but but I was also that's about the time that I started having these problems and really struggle, struggling. I decided one day I wanted to really be something, I wanted to make something of myself, and I couldn't think of anything.
Beau:The military came up. I knew this person who was in the marines and he was very squared away. You know he was like, wow, I want what he has and I want those dress blues. I want to wear the dress blues. So I joined the Marines, so I went from high school to the farm and then, next thing, you know, I'm in the Marines and I'm doing that and I get my dress blues and I'm in the Marines for a little while.
Beau:One day I was walking back from a place that I was on guard duty the night before and so I didn't really get any sleep and stuff like that. And I'm walking across this field and next thing, you know, I'm out. I wake up and I see this Fulberg Colonel looking at me, right, and I don't know what. What happened? I don't know literally what happened. One minute I'm walking, everything's fine, and the next minute I'm out cold and I have this Colonel looking at me and I'm thinking, oh my God, what? What did I do? Now you know what happened. And he, he told me, he said you had a seizure.
Dirk:Oh, where was this? Was this in the us somewhere?
Beau:where was I? I was uh. This was in okinawa this was in okinawa.
Beau:We were in okinawa. We left from, I was stationed in hawaii, which was actually a pretty good duty station. So I got lucky and we had just shipped off to to camp hansen, which was in, which is in Okinawa, and he said I had a seizure and I don't know what happened. I don't know what. We don't really know what brought it on. I think it was stress and I had another seizure and I, you know, I was in infantry. So they were like, okay, not a good idea, you're running around with a rifle having seizures.
Beau:So you got to go, you know, and I struggled with that because it was right around 9, 11 had just happened and a lot of things, as you probably remember, was going on around that time, and the military, and you know, so my buddies are going to fight and I'm going back home and I struggle with that. I struggled with a lot of right. So I come back home and I'm back in, I get back into things, you know, but now I have this burden that I'm carrying of guilt and just confusion. You know, I really I was a good Marine, I did a good job and I took orders and I did what I had to do and this happened. So it's like, wow, I thought I was doing something with my life and now this happened.
Dirk:Yeah, yeah. You were putting in the effort and out of your control. This seizure happens and now you're back home.
Beau:And, yeah, I'm back home and I get. It's like I fall deeper into the rabbit hole, you know. And I remember going back home how was? I was 25 years old and I went back to my parents' house. I was, I was really struggling that night. I was drinking, I was using drugs, and I remember my mom meeting me at the door when I went back to her cause I had lost everything. And she said, bo you, you had lost everything. And she said, uh, bo you, you can't come home anymore. You know, you can't, I can't keep doing this right, and I was angry.
Beau:I was like, you know, because she was enabling me. And she said that this is what she was telling me. And and I looked at her and I said you don't know what it's like to be me. You don't know what it's like to be an alcoholic. And I remember she looked at me and she says, bo, you don't know what it's like to be me. You don't know what it's like to be an alcoholic. And I remember she looked at me and she says, bo, you don't know what it's like to live with one. And it was like, okay, I need to go get help. You know so. So the VA sent me to as a. As a veteran, I was eligible to go through this program through the VA, which was in New Orleans, and I thought it was a joke because I'm like, hey man, I have a problem with alcohol and y'all are going to send me to New Orleans.
Dirk:That sounds like a good idea, but it actually worked.
Beau:It worked. I got hooked up with some pretty good people. That was very supportive.
Dirk:Alcohol, that was your main.
Beau:The alcohol was sort of the gateway into, which was really bad. Before the Marines it was cocaine, my drug of choice, Really, really. I think when I hit bottom came after I started using that I stopped that. And then I remember being in the Marines that wasn't something I was going to do, but it got replaced with something else, like alcohol I mean, because that was accepted, that was okay, Work hard, play hard, kind of thing, and so it kind of all was. It was all in in in the same basket. It was all an issue, all a problem and I I realized I need to just stop everything and that that was the goal at some point. I don't know if I wanted to do that in the beginning, but at some point I just need to let everything go.
Dirk:And then the treatment program. Can you describe that? Was that like a 30-day residential situation, or what did that look like?
Beau:Yeah, so that was actually interesting. It was through the VA in New Orleans and it was a place called Gateway Recovery and it was like a year long program. So basically you're kind of living in this supportive housing program and the VA and you're going to the VA to do your groups and your therapy and you're seeing a psychiatrist and so on and so forth. You know you're really getting a lot of help. And I know there's a lot of things about the VA and it's definitely not perfect. There's definitely some improvements I think we could be doing with veterans, which is why I'm doing my my nature retreats. But I really I really am so grateful for the people that were there for me these social workers and counselors and doctors to be there to help me. So yeah, the program was a year-long program which got extended because the time I moved I moved to New Orleans at the beginning of 2000, going into 2005. And Katrina hit in 2005 oh wow, in new orleans.
Beau:So it's like everywhere I go something seems to happen, so military, and then 9, 11, and yeah, yeah, katrina, and, and that that was a wholeher traumatic thing, as you can imagine, uh, but but yeah, so, so the, the, the program got it. It was all messed up, you know, it was all, but I stayed sober and I stayed straight and, uh, you know, we, we stayed connected the best way we could, um, and, and then, once the, once the that program was was done, I was fortunate enough to go back to school. So this is where the school comes in. And you know, it was different. I was in a different place, my mind and I was like I want to do this. So I find Tulane, tulane University and I don't know if anybody who's listening to this knows anything about any schools in Louisiana, but but that was a big deal for me.
Dirk:You know Tulane's a great school. Yeah, my, my aunt and uncle worked at the medical center there and we I've been on the campus. Yeah, okay, it was a great school.
Beau:Good, and that was a big deal no-transcript could form sugar cane. I could sell you a car. I could uh, I could help you uh feel good about yourself and maybe even look good, right, but um and and then um, and then it happened somebody uh told me she said um, hey, I think you would be really good at helping people, right wow so it was a moment, it was like the moment is a moment.
Beau:I still remember that. She said you would be good at helping people and I'm like man, I don't know if I can help myself, but I'll give it a shot, you know. So I started doing that. I started getting involved with getting curious about what that would look like, and it actually started in addiction. I worked, I did a lot of work in working with people who were struggling with addiction. That's that's where a lot of my experience was in the beginning, and then obviously, that turned into some other things. So I'm at Tulane, I'm working in these treatment centers in New Orleans. I'm not necessarily a counselor yet, I'm just sort of like a tech. I'm there. I'm in recovery as well. So there's that component, but my work is very limited on what I'm in recovery as well. So there's that component, but my work is very limited on what I'm doing.
Dirk:You're doing the undergraduate social work coursework and training at this point.
Beau:Yeah, going to school and working for a treatment center out there. I think you know I'm really following people's advice. I'm glad they were giving me this seems to be pretty good advice. But that that's what I'm doing, because I don't know. I'm just following. Oh, this person said I would be good at helping people, so okay, I'm going to do it. And then, and then someone, then again another moment, I'm getting my degree, my undergrad, and then somebody says but if you really want to do something in this field, you're going to have to get something more than just an undergrad. You really need to get a graduate degree. So she was a social worker and she said you really need to get licensed in something. And these are some options. And I asked her. I said well, what are you? And she said, well, I'm an LCSW and we make a lot of money. I'm just kidding, I wanted the money, man, that was always.
Dirk:I could tell that right away, yeah.
Beau:Yeah, yeah, and, and so I did that. I was able to go to to the social work program at Tulane, you know, and and meanwhile the military is actually paying for a lot of this. The VA is paying for this. It was through the GI Bill and so I'm very, very fortunate to have that support through this. So I'm going to Tulane, I'm getting my master's degree and then I become a social worker and finally I work on getting licensed. I think I always wanted to do this private practice. I always wanted. That was the goal is to do that, to kind of be doing my my own thing, to be your own person to control what you're doing and who you're working with, and that that has always been hanging up the shingle.
Beau:That's what I constantly been hearing, like you know, and and I thought to myself but once I have that, I will, will make it right, then I'll be making the big bucks, then I'm going to be somebody. I always I have that part, you know.
Dirk:But how did that lead you to EMDR and IFS and Bruce Hersey and what were the modalities? That kind of what's the story of your treatment philosophy, I guess, and training?
Beau:This is what happened. I was working with a client and multiple clients and I kept I. You know I'm at this point. I'm out of school, I have my license, I'm just starting really doing some therapy. This is just early on and I'm finding myself getting stuck. I'm getting, I'm getting stuck in these situations where I'm like I'm not seeing. You know, I need something Right and you're using CBT at this point.
Beau:There I was still doing. I was actually before I opened my practice I was working for I moved to Baton Rouge and to be closer to family. We we have two boys, so married my wife, two kids, and we wanted to be closer to family. So I found a place here that I worked for and it was actually. It went from. It was still addiction, but it was pornography and sex addiction. So I was doing a lot of that work, focusing on more of a recovery based model and some stuff like DBT and some CBT. You know, just like this is my toolbox right, I didn't have IFS yet, I didn't have EMDR. So I have a little toolbox with little tools, with skills that I can use, but something's not working Right, Like I just keep hitting this block. And so again another colleague, another little angel in my life, comes and gives me her advice on what I needed to do, but I'm so grateful she did.
Beau:She says, hey, you should check out emdr, right? And so I'm I go on my journey again. You know I'm like, oh okay, well, that must be good, I'm gonna do it. And I go get trained in emdr and and it worked. I come back and the clients I felt stuck with I found this thing that actually helped us get unstuck what do you think it was about the EMDR?
Dirk:that was helpful and different.
Beau:That's a good question. I just think the way it works I think on one hand it's the modality itself is a good approach to use because with the clients at this point I'm starting to get some exposure to trauma right. So up until this point I really was not really that trauma informed. Up to this point it was all about kind of dealing more with the symptom. So going into this world where we're looking at more of the trauma and the underlying issues is really, I think, what works. It gets to the heart of the matter and I think most people listening know what EMDR is.
Dirk:I've done some interviews of EMDR people but maybe just explain for anybody who doesn't know what is EMDR and how does it work with trauma.
Beau:Yeah, so EMDR is eye movement, desensitization and reprocessing and basically what that means is it targets the trauma, but more specifically it targets the memory. If you think of, everything that we've experienced up to this point is technically a memory. Some memories are not processed. A lot of things that we go through that's very difficult don't get processed for whatever reason. So EMDR looks at that, it looks at memory and it uses something called bilateral stimulation to help process memories. And so in EMDR we would say, if somebody comes into therapy, we would, we would actually look at some. Sometimes people know what's causing their problems. Sometimes people don't, they just know they're struggling and so sometimes those things that we struggle with in our current life are tied to to old stuff that that we can unpack.
Dirk:And I agree, this is so interesting that you know our memory. We have our own personal narrative. There's a timeline. I know when I was, you know, in first grade, this was my teacher.
Dirk:But then the trauma memories are kind of different. If there's something really traumatic, we dissociate, we leave our body and the memory doesn't enter that normal narrative timeline. It's just sort of this like fear trigger and anything that relates to it will create this massive fear response. And so now what you're doing with the eye movements and saying, okay, get back into the memory, what did you see, what did you feel, what did you, you know, get back into it and then start moving eyes and somehow it reworks that memory process and it's very different than what you said. The symptom approach, where you're saying, okay, I have this thought, but I know it's crazy and I'm going to like push it away using this approach. This is very much like, okay, just go with it and move eyes back and forth or tap on left, right, left, right. So, yeah, it's something I've learned about in the last few years. That I agree. It's a very different than those more traditional approaches, that that I learned in school or that you learned earlier.
Beau:Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely, absolutely, and it came in. Unfortunately, I didn't learn about EMDR until a few years after. It was a gift? It definitely was a gift. For those reasons that you're sharing right now, it was totally a different way of looking at things.
Dirk:And so you were having success with that.
Beau:and then yeah, so I'm having success with EMDR, wow. But then I get that feeling again. I get that stuck feeling again, right, and I'm like, oh, I'm stuck again. I'm stuck Not as my percentage of success with my clients is going up, but it's not 100. And I'm stuck. So I go on my journey again.
Beau:Another moment happened, my special another person in my life. We were actually tested for our lcsw together and and I remember she told me she says, hey, you have to check out internal family systems. And I said, well, I don't work with family so I don't really need that. And she's like, it's not, no, just check it out. Right, you get it talks about parts and all these things. And she's going into these things about managers and firefighters. I'm like, what kind of crazy stuff is this? But I'll check it out right.
Beau:And and I did and something just like I don't know it. Just, it was almost like when I got exposed to IFS by literally just watching a video it made. So it made sense. It made some of the things that I didn't really. There were some things that I already knew and this put language to it, but then there was also things that I didn't really know and it didn't make sense and IFS, totally just. It's the most complete model in my opinion and like for me. It's just the way I see things and myself and my world, as a husband, as a dad, as a therapist, a human being, a husband as a dad, right, as a therapist, a human being.
Dirk:Um so I'm starting to to get exposure to this and so yeah. So just to pause for a second Um, I think there's a lot in what you're you're saying and um, yeah, again, I think people are familiar with, with IFS, but we can explain a little bit what it is for people who aren't. But I'm amazed that you're able to listen to people and take their advice, like that's like who does that? You know?
Beau:I'm glad you're saying that because I'm thinking and it's making me think. Right now I'm like man, I'm glad they were giving me good advice. You know, I'm sure I don't know like I'm just trusting this, you know, and just going with it.
Dirk:And then you, based on that, you sign up for a level one training, or what was your first exposure?
Beau:Yeah, so when I got yeah, when I got introduced to IFS in that way just the video and stuff I started looking into that because I'm like, oh, I need to do this because I want to say this too. Um, that, my, mo, my, my, when I get stuck, I look for a training to get me stuck. That that's me okay. So if I'm stuck, I'm looking for some books and training, something to do that's going to help me.
Beau:I've I've always had that and uh, the the thing about ifs is and I'll answer your question about level one but once I got into that level one and I got trained in ifs, I I pretty much don't really say that I feel stuck anymore like I used to, because I know if I do, it's something within me and IFS has given me a unique way to to work with that. So so things really changed when I got trained in IFS, from looking for things outside myself to fix a stuckness that I have and maybe a training is wonderful, but usually I don't. I lead with this. Something I do with my veterans is called an about face, which is I turn around and I look at me and see why I'm getting stuck. So I'll share more about that later.
Dirk:That's super cool. Yeah, that's like a U-turn. It is a U-turn, yes, so let's maybe just explain what is IFS, because some people might not know what IFS is Internal Family Systems Therapy. It's not family therapy, that's right, that's right.
Beau:It's Internal Family Systems and basically what that is. It looks at the internal family of parts that make up our personality. So we can look at these different things that we feel like anxiety or anger, or these things that we do like act out with certain behaviors or eating when we're stressed or getting really angry when we're triggered, when we're stressed or getting really angry when we're triggered. So it basically looks at the behaviors and the feelings and it says, hey, this is a part of you, right, this is a part of you, and I like to think of IFS as taking these parts of us and it sort of personifies them, these different feelings, which is a different way of looking at it, and I think, for me, doing that really helps me relate to these feelings and these behaviors, these parts and IFS. We call these things parts, right, and so it really gives us a way to, number one, identify the different parts. Usually not always, but usually the focus is on how did these parts change as a result of something traumatic that we went through?
Dirk:so that's a big part of it and the parts are sort of there's two types. There's one that are basically holding trauma experiences, that things that we don't want to feel, and dick schwartz calls those exiles. And then there's uh parts, that sort of protect against feelings we don't want, and those can be uh protectors, which are either sort of before the fact protectors um managers that will plan and prevent our traumatic memories from being triggered, and then after the fact protectors firefighters drinking or acting out or things like that. So it's sort of this map of these internal brain networks. And to me this is so exciting because I think it really makes. First of all it's really weird, it's a weird way of we're all multiple people, but on the other hand, I think this is really how our mind is organized and it makes.
Dirk:I just read Bob Falconer has a great book about sort of the history of multiplicity and talks about how all the ancient cultures had a multiple mind version, and Aristotle and the Greeks and the Egyptians, and that if you dream, for example, there's a part of me that's telling a story and then there's a part of me that's like, oh shit, what's going to happen next? And if you think about AI and building a powerful computer, you can't have one computer that does everything you have. Basically, our brain is modular, and so Dick Schwartz came up with this amazing discovery that our brain is modular. And then you can use this family therapy to sort of personify each part and work with them. And it's pretty amazing, um, and I only came to it recently. So, um, through, in part, through the training that you did and your teaching with bruce hersey and yeah, yeah, thank you for that.
Beau:that's a wonderful explanation too. Is just to, I like how you connected it with how a computer works and how those you know those, um, those systems uh, operate because the, the, every, and that's the thing is we, we all have it, we're all multiplicity, right, we all have these different parts of us. I think we all talk to ourselves, most of us do, at least, maybe I think everyone does, and so, uh, the perfect. It's actually a cartoon, and I have two kids, nine and five, so I've watched these cartoons at least 100 times, and it's the inside out cartoons, yeah, sure.
Beau:If you know anything about inside out. That is IFS. That is IFS right there that we have these parts of us inside of us and they are all trying to do something. They all have a responsibility, right. They're all a motive and intention, right. So I love IFS, and if you don't know what IFS is, I encourage you to look it up. And it's a what's the word I'm looking for. It's a paradigm shift, you know. It's totally another way of looking at the world and yourself, and not only that, but how to? How to start commuting with your, communicating with yourself in a way that is actually going to bring more connection and more compassion to yourself and to others. We're so hard on ourselves and more compassion to yourself and to others. We're so hard on ourselves, and so IFSS, again, has given me a great way to work with myself and to others. That has given me a breakthrough. It sounds like I'm putting this thing on a pedestal, but I'm so passionate about it and I love it.
Dirk:Yeah, and I think I agree it's a paradigm shift. And part of the paradigm shift is being, you know, we, a part of me wants this and a part of me wants that and I hate this part of my. You know, part of me hates this other part of me and the whole idea of like, being nice, you know, whatever is happening, being being kind and curious about whatever that part is doing, and, even if it's a pornography addiction or not, to sort of aggressively come in and try to kill it off, but to sort of approach it with compassion and and get to know it and seeing, well, what are you doing, what, why are you here and what's your intention and all that. And so, yeah, that's, it's very different.
Beau:It is, and it's so hard to do that, especially with uh, it's hard to do that with some parts, especially those parts that cause problems in relationships, like the drugs and like the pornography Right. Um, so a way to hey, this part that we're looking at it's not who you are, it's a part of who you are. And then it goes another step further. It says these parts are also holding on to burdens and those parts are not their burdens either. So when we look at pornography, addiction or thoughts of suicide or whatever it is, we can see these just like people. Right, these things that people are doing, it's not them and we wouldn't get rid of the person. We just want to help them with the weight that they're carrying and the burdens they're holding. So that's what we're doing with these parts.
Dirk:And those burdens. I think that's really interesting too that we pick up these burdens and it's like a belief that at some point when I was a little kid, I picked it up because that got me through I'm bad, it can't possibly be, the world that's bad. And and then now we're grown up and we're walking around with these beliefs and and start to sort of untang free, free our system from these burdens and that's perfect.
Beau:Your belief is totally right which actually shapes right. It shapes a lot of things from that, just that thing that we pick up Right. So yeah, so I'm, I'm doing the thing. I go to level one training. It was in person in Arizona. Let me say that right before I go to the training, it's in between my EMDR Well, I had been doing EMDR for a while and then, and then, and then, right before I find I find a level one IFS training, I meet Bruce Hershey.
Dirk:Where do you meet him?
Beau:So I, online, I I don't know how I found him. Here's another moment, right. Here's another moment. Here's another little experience of this person who's going to come into my life and change it. But he's going to stay for a while and he's still in it today. So I meet him online. I'm into EMDR and I'm into IFS, right, and so I can't remember what happened, but his name came up. His name came up and I want to say it was in a Facebook group, the EMDR Facebook group, but I could be wrong. But he comes up and I sent him an email and I asked him to.
Beau:I get excited because I'm like, oh, there's somebody that's doing both this IFS, emdr thing, and at this point I had found two things that really, I feel is very, very complete, right, if you remember, a while ago, I said I was looking for something to focus on. Right, I was looking for that niche and I feel like, with ifs and india, I found it. So bruce was the person who was doing it. So I remember where I was, I was on, I was. I get a call from him. I'm sitting in the parking lot of the gym where I work out at, and I get this call and we have this conversation right, and he tells me he can work with me. Right, I'm like this excited little. I just meant Bon Jovi, because I am. I was in Bon Jovi's fan club, by the way. I grew up watching, you know, listening to Bon Jovi. So I'm on the phone and I'm like all excited. Right, I haven't, I'm in this Bruce Hersey fan club.
Beau:And I think he's from New Jersey too and he actually from Philadelphia, he's a Philadelphia, but, yeah, yeah, altoon or Altoon, I can't remember. It's kind of all in the same right Kind of area. So I meet, yeah, I connect with him, and then I started getting into this way of how do we bring these two together and, uh, he was my consultant for everything. I really look at him as a, as a mentor, right, um, this, this, this really what's the word like really exponentially, uh, just just drove my, my career in a, in a, in a whole new level that if I I don't, if I would never have met bruce it, you know, I I don't know if I would be experienced the things that I have as a professional and and especially the opportunities that I have gotten into because of my relationship and because of my meetings with Bruce.
Dirk:I'm a big fan of his too and I've gotten a lot of teaching from him and also had him on the podcast, which was exciting for me. But this might be tricky, but can you think of an example of where you might you know this wouldn't be a real client with identifying stuff, but somebody who might have some kind of a trauma or issue, that EMDR would you know approach, but it wouldn't go as well until you add it Like what does the EMDR do and then what does the IFS add to it? Can you think of like a hypothetical kind of situation or example?
Beau:Yeah, yeah, I could tell you exactly, I think the EMDR, in what I was noticing, with the stuck feelings that I was having with EMDR, it usually came from clients who had more of a complex trauma. You know they've had more of the you know childhood experiences, multiple experiences that really ruptured the relationship that usually they have with other people but also themselves versus and you know somebody who may have had more of a single incident trauma or something that was a little bit more straightforward. I found that those, the percentages, were different. When I started working with folks with a more of a complex system, that's where I felt I was getting stuck.
Dirk:And so then you're moving, you're picking a memory and you're moving eyes and you get a lot of affect. And then there's another memory and it just it doesn't resolve it just kind of affect and more affect.
Beau:Yeah, and usually yeah, and sometimes before I even would get into memory, I couldn't even get to a memory because the system was so guarded. You know, as you explained earlier, we have these protectors, and so before IFS, I didn't look at it like that, I just looked at it like this client is being resistant, or this client why is like, you came to do EMDR, let's do EMDR, what's going on? So I, I just kept pushing, and that's what Dick Schwartz talks about, that's what happened with him, and and when he was, he was fighting his client, so to speak, uh, and and finally this client comes to him and says she, she had a very, very bad episode during the week. And she says you know, I don't want to fight with you. And he's like I, I don't want to, I'm, you know, I give up, I can't, I can't win.
Beau:And she realized well, it's not about fighting them or or or battling something. It's, it's a realizing that these parts have some type of positive intention for doing what they're doing. So so for me that's that's what I was noticing is, sometimes I couldn't even get there, and even when I would override the person system or, we say, as a protector, I would have backlash right, which is where you know a client can get very overwhelmed. They can, the parts can punish the client or the therapeutic relationship, or the client wouldn't come back. You know that happens when we have more of a complex system, and so the reason why IFS is so successful is because they give us a way to work with those parts that before we might not even really be aware of or push past.
Dirk:Yeah, we might not, as therapists, like this part that's resisting. And why can't you just do this, emdr, this is going to work? And then the person isn't doing it, and so, instead of saying hey, come on, let's do it, say, oh hello, I see you're hesitant about this and skeptical, welcome. Let's get to know your skepticism and your hesitancy and just move at a much slower pace and get to know the protector before going to the next level. Yeah, it's very elegant.
Beau:There's a saying I love what's in the way is the way right, and so this is the way. Working with these gatekeepers, so to speak, is really the first step, you know, in making some really really good progress and overcoming those stuck points that I think a lot of people experience in all kinds of therapy.
Dirk:So now you have this tool set, how do the retreats come in?
Beau:So the retreats come in, okay, so I'm doing my thing and I go to level one. And then I get an email from the Foundation of Self Leadership, which is technically like the IFS foundation. They are responsible for bringing IFS into the communities. They focus on special groups and populations, and and I just get this email about veterans and I'm again I'm excited. So I reach out to them and I say, hey, I'm, I'm IFS trained, I'm a veteran, I want to help Right. And so I started, we started, I started connecting with people and talking about veterans and talking about how IFS can help veterans. And then I meet someone who's doing nature work and and so he's doing IFS and he's doing nature.
Beau:So so Ray Mount is his name, ray Tufik is the, was, the or still is the executive director for the Foundation of Self-Leadership. I'll say this real quick His first job. We're celebrating an anniversary with the, with the IFS going to be. You know, we're going to reach out to all the authors of ifs, the who wrote a book, and see if they want to donate and and be a part of this, this magazine that we're putting together, and all that. So I guess he picked up on my car sales background, because he's I wanted, I want you to do this, would you do this? So I had the opportunity to reach out to every author in ifs and I was able to have conversations with them over the phone. It was, it was and I'm just getting. I had just finished my level one training, so it was. It was such an amazing experience to connect with the leaders in my field, right.
Beau:So one thing led to another. He introduced me to Ray Mao and Ray's up in Boston and he tells me, he says look, let's do something here. We'll do a pilot program in Boston, and it's IFS, it's IFS nature. And each therapist we had maybe about five or six therapists Each person brought a special gift, so to speak. So one person brought shamanic drumming, another person brought art. I brought EMDR right, gifts, so to speak. So one person brought shamanic drumming, another person brought art, I brought emdr right. So we're, we're really experiencing this in nature, and I want to have to say this that it was in november and we were sleeping.
Dirk:I don't know, I can't remember where you're, where you're living now, but no, I'm in manhattan, but yeah, I grew up in in Western mass and Amherst mass.
Beau:Okay. Okay Then, and I'm from Louisiana, it doesn't. It's muggy down here, right, and it's hot and I'm like sure. So we're sleeping in tents. Okay, I mean, there's an outhouse, we have no running water. We're we're primitive as you can. Three days.
Dirk:Is it like on a regular campground or there's a retreat site?
Beau:It was called the Hale Reservation the Hale Reservation and it was really a beautiful experience. It was beautiful the grounds, and I'm out there in November it is cold. So I am like Ray, you are nuts right, but experience was. I've had some very moments in that retreat that really again made me realize how important it was for me to do something with nature.
Dirk:Can you paint a bit more of a picture? So I'm imagining there's five therapists and then a group of veterans, maybe mostly men or all men, and so this experience.
Beau:This one was just the therapist, so the veterans were not even in the picture yet. Okay, we were just like hey, we like nature and we like ifs. Let's see if we, let's put it together.
Dirk:Let's go out for a weekend just for ourselves just for ourselves and learn and get to know each other.
Beau:Yeah it was just like a pilot run. Let's give this a shot. Two nights, two and a half night, so friday, saturday and half a day on sunday, okay, and we're doing different. We're eating together, right, we're cooking, living in tents and we're practicing some parts stuff in nature and, uh, it's yeah, and we're practicing some parts stuff in nature, and it's yeah, and we're doing that.
Dirk:There's sticks and it's cold and, yeah, I'm so curious about it. One of my big frustrations now is I live in Manhattan, in the middle of the city, and I try to get my kids more exposure to nature and myself more exposure to nature, and it's not easy but I'm working on it. I really think that. So connecting with we're bringing it back to meaning also, I think, connection with Nate, connection with our body, connection with nature. But I love the idea of doing nature retreats. So I have a bunch of questions, but I guess, staying with the retreats, how did you go from that retreat to then running your own nature retreats?
Beau:Yeah, yeah. So I knew I wanted to do it. I knew I wanted to do it and there was nobody kind of there was definitely not really anybody doing it with veterans. And so I thought what is my focus here and what am I trying to do? So we started, I started kind of putting this this well, veterans, the work I'm doing, veterans this would totally be a good fit for them. And so we started talking about it. Right, we started talking about it and we kept talking about it and we kept planning things and we kept talking about it and that goes yeah and and we kept talking about it and finally someone said here's another moment she says, bo, you have to do this.
Beau:like you, you have to do it, meaning these veterans don't have any support. Right, you got to do it, and she was right. I so I remember what I did. I have this part that puts me in a position that I have to succeed, and I don't know how I feel about that part yet. But basically, what it did was it called the campground where we had the first one, and it booked a lodge. So I booked a lodge, I paid for it and now I have to fill it. Right, there's no, I don't have the blueprint set up?
Dirk:How many months in advance is this? What was it.
Beau:I want to say maybe. I want to say maybe a three months or something like that.
Dirk:I love it. So, yeah, yeah. So you book the lodge and you have the pressure on.
Beau:That's me, that's I don't know. Man, I remember in school I'm like oh, the, the, the paper's going to be due in a month. Yeah, I'm going to wait.
Dirk:Yeah, how do you, how do you assemble your group? And yeah, yeah, how does it all come together?
Beau:Yeah, so fortunately most of the clients that did my first one were veterans, were clients already of mine.
Dirk:Of yours, but not in Boston. You're doing stuff in Boston.
Beau:Yes, no, no. So Boston, I left Boston, right, and I come back home to Louisiana and I basically, okay, I need to do something here, okay so, that was now.
Dirk:This was not. This is now. No, no, no. This is like now.
Beau:I got to figure out how do I pick a month where it's we don't like die of suffocation Right? And so, yes, I found something. It was usually here February, and then fall October, november, november or the two times a year that I'm so you had all these clients and you said, okay, we're doing good work together.
Dirk:I booked this lodge, I'm doing this retreat, I think it'd be great if you come. Is that was that? You know? I don't think I've ever thought about what. What did I say to them? That's a good question.
Beau:I, that was that your you know, I don't think I've ever thought about what did I say to them. That's a good question. I said something like that Like hey, because some of them I had been working with for a while and I always come in and like, hey, I just got, I got trained in this EMDR, you want to give it a shot? Or hey, I'm starting to do these these, I'm going to start doing these retreats, and do you want to do?
Dirk:it group of clients. I've worked with severe chronic people with schizophrenia and bipolar in a community psychiatry clinic, and then I have my private practice, which is child and adult teenagers, sort of Upper West Side-y, more affluent working professionals and kids, and so I do one-on-one work. At this point I'd love to do more groups, I'd love to do retreats, but the idea of taking all my people who I have relationships with and going camping with them is kind of mind-blowing to me right now, in this moment. So, yeah, what was this like? This first experience?
Beau:The first experience was great. I had there were eight veterans that did it I invited Ray the same person that invited me to Boston. I invited him to come back to Louisiana, and so now we're doing the first round and it was a wonderful experience. I mean, god, where do I start with that? But I'm going to answer your question. I think, being with the veterans, there was a connection with them that I never felt before, that I never felt or wasn't feeling in just working with them in an office, although I think we had a good relationship, but there was. There's just something about being in nature that I don't think you can get anywhere else.
Dirk:What do you think that is? I agree with you, by the way, but yeah, yeah.
Beau:Yeah, I think the, the, the, you know there's so much stuff that could come out when we, when we we talked about the parts in IFS. Right, we talked about, you said, the manager, firefighter, the exile but there's one thing we didn't talk about and that is what IFS would call the true self, or self energy, which is really at the core these positive qualities that we all possess, and this is how we connect with our parts, or this is how we connect with other people from this place. And so I think nature has so much of that Right. Nature has so much of that right. Nature has so much of that and it doesn't have to try to access, it's already there, right.
Beau:And so what I'm noticing is that these clients that are going in nature, they don't have a lot of that right. They do, but they're not. There's so many other parts that's kind of blocking that right. So so I think nature helps us connect with ourselves, uh, by tapping into that what I just would call self-energy. That, again, nature has so much of. So I think that's a big, big part of it. Um, it also is a different environment, you know, I think clients, veterans especially, have so much. Unfortunately, there's a stigma around therapy and there's a stigma around going to that office, and nature is a little bit different, right, and so I think it's, I think what I'm, you know, I think I think sometimes people are more open to doing something like that, right, because it is kind of natural for them and some of them grew up in it. I've had clients that it really brought them back to their childhood where they actually did have positive memories of camping or hunting or fishing or something like that positive memories of camping or hunting or fishing or something like that.
Dirk:Yeah, that sounds really beautiful. So you're, you're engaging with people on a much more real and personal level than the office setting and then working with parts, and you're all sharing all of this self, energy and and people are connecting and healing. It sounds, sounds really amazing.
Beau:Yeah, yeah it is, it is uh, which is which is why I I love to do it. We, we started doing, we started doing more. One turned into two, into three and one of actually one of the veterans that did it. He has now we, we've we've gone from doing it at the location where it was more of a campground location. We had a lodge, there were some trails, but now we have 75 acres of property here locally, where there's a pond, there's a lake, there's a river, there's different spots on the property where you could set up a tent, you could sleep in a lodge if you want. It's really really open to to really getting away right, the the whole, the whole kind of mindset behind the nature retreats is to unplug, connect and let go. So that's what we're doing. We're unplugging from life, we're connecting with nature and other veterans and we're doing we're unplugging from life, we're connecting with nature and other veterans and we're working on letting go of things that we again that we talked about earlier, those burdens.
Dirk:Do you have advice for me? If I want to do a nature retreat, how would you approach it? Just book a lodge and then?
Beau:You were going to. You took the word. You must have been reading my thought. Yes, do it just do it, don't have a plan. I think I think that would be the first thing. One thing that I I am doing is uh is I I want to help other therapists do what I'm doing, and so I've actually done nature retreats for therapists where they can learn how to do this, and basically you're kind of doing two things. Number one you're learning IFS in nature, and so you're kind of doing your own personal work too.
Dirk:So where would I or other people learn about this? You have a website and you advertise.
Beau:I do yes, yes, ifsemdrcom, if, if you're a therapist, you would go to that website and, uh, all of the services that I have is on there, is is on that website um, that includes retreats for therapists.
Dirk:Where that that yep?
Beau:that recruiting, the retreats, the programs, the trainings, all that's on there. So you know, for me and that's the one we did I think it was last year we did one with therapists and again it was learning IFS doing their own work but at the same time also learning how to do a nature retreat. Because you're doing it, you're going through it. I wish we had time. We'll have to do another show because I'm actually writing a chapter, along with maybe 12, 13, 14 other authors, on IFS and EMDR and I'm writing it on military veterans and nature retreats and I break the whole step by step, what we do, there's exercises, and just the way it's unfolded over time. That is lovely. I'm proud of my veterans that do this and the community that we built. So I don't know.
Dirk:I'm excited about that. I'll get that book and read your chapter once it happens.
Beau:But I would say that and I don't know if I answered your question, I guess I was learn something about it. Obviously, there's some, some good takeaways from just sort of learning from someone else that's doing it. But here's I'll say this too I had someone assist me in the therapist retreat that I did for therapists and she she was actually the same person that told me I needed to do this and I said, hey, come on and come help me and we'll do this. And at the end of the retreat, I remember what she told me. She says, oh, I could do this, Like, in other words, this is something she wanted to do where she was, but there was this roadblock.
Beau:There was just like the same roadblock I was experiencing I want to do this, but we keep talking about it. And there was this roadblock. There was just like the same roadblock I was experiencing I want to do this, but we keep talking about it, and there was just something holding me back. But once you do it, it's doable, right. And now she's doing wonderful things and she's doing whatever you know, she's helping the people that she's helping where she is. But I remember her saying that. So my feedback or my thoughts for you or anyone else who wants to do this is learn a little bit about it, but then do it.
Dirk:Book your lot. You've got me really excited. I love that. Just do it. Do you have any horror stories or things that can go wrong? Or don't do this?
Beau:The horror stories? That's. I need to think about that the first thing that comes up. I don't think any horror stories. I mean it has been just really one good thing after another, from building the community and veterans having veterans to connect with.
Beau:I will say this one thing that comes up when you ask me this question is is you're dealing with things in nature that you don't normally deal with when you're in your office, and one of them being is weather. So this last retreat was, which was this year we're having another one next month, but the one in, uh, we had one in february and we had everything planned out, we got the, the property, we're doing you know everything. And then we look at this, the weather, and it's going to be practically not a hurricane, but it almost looks like one, right. So I'm thinking what, what are we going to do? Right, and it potentially it's going to be a lot of rain, right, and probably some flooding. So so, uh, we, we decided we were still going to do it and we had to relocate because of the place we were just, it wasn't going to work out.
Beau:So we, we, we just adjusted, we, we did what we, I did in the marines, we adapted and we over, we overcome. That was a right. We, we pivoted, we, we figured it out. It was a wet, wet weekend, so I wouldn't call that a horror story, but I would. I would say that when we're doing something new like this, we have to plan and we have to know that there's gonna be some things that might come up. That's different, but it's it's okay. It's okay, it's going to be, it's possible.
Dirk:That makes it more meaningful in a lot of ways, and I want to sort of pivot to meaning and also be mindful of time. But yeah, so mental health and meaning and trauma and meaning. How do you think about meaning as a component of of healing and mental health?
Beau:That's why I like IFS so much, because it gives me that language, it gives me a way to how am I going to view myself? And so I think for me, when you asked me that question, I think of me being the very best version of myself. That's what I am and what is that right? So I believe, regardless of the person's symptom or the diagnosis or whatever it is that you want to call it, I do think inside of each everybody is this, is this core, this core self, that we have these qualities and we can tap into that. We can find that, we can, we can experience that, and I've seen it with people in my nature, retreats who, who don't know about that, right, don't know about that, right. And once we do that, I think, looking at these symptoms or diagnoses or whatever we have, and really trying to understand that, really trying to see where that's coming from. So when you say meaning, I think of for me, meaning is about what does it mean to each one of these different parts of me, right, and so it's really finding meaning from that and it's really getting a different perspective from each wonderful aspect of myself, right, and understand that, whatever it is that I'm doing. I'm doing it probably for a reason, and if it's not working anymore, I could change that, right? I could change that. I can have a different relationship with myself, I can challenge old beliefs, I can let go of things that I'm holding on to and I can be free right, and sometimes I have good days and sometimes I have bad days and sometimes I think I've dealt with something and it comes back Right. But I can always rely on this, these modalities that I use in this way I deal with life to help me re-center. You know that it helps me. It's my inner compass, right?
Beau:I'll say this real quick and I don't know if this is true or not, but I heard a story so I'm going to share it with you. But I heard about this the eagle and the eagle's nest and how that's actually aligned with. There's something about the what's in. There's something in the brain of the eagle that's lined with the North Pole, the brain of the ego that's lined with the North Pole, and the story goes that when the ego leaves this nest, it flies and adventures and it goes on this journey and apparently when it goes off course away from that center, the head starts throbbing and it actually hurts and it knows to pivot a little bit, and when it gets realigned to center, the pain goes away Right, and so that's kind of how I look at this. Sometimes, when I'm experiencing that pain, I'm off course and I just need to recenter I need. There's something inside of me that's telling me I need to repose, to recenter.
Dirk:There's something inside of me that's telling me I need to repose. That's a cool story and this is not medication advice for anybody. But you wouldn't want to take that eagle and give it some Prozac or whatever the medicine is to make the headache go, or Tylenol, I guess it would be. That's sort of an important inner signal On the other hand. That's sort of an important inner signal On the other hand. Sometimes our inner compass is misaligned and some of these medicines can be very helpful for just sort of resetting our compass and allowing it to function properly again. Sure, sure.
Beau:Yes, absolutely.
Dirk:So that's beautiful. I'm going to ask you just a couple of rapid fire questions and then we'll bring this to a close. So these are sentence completions questions. So according to me, bo and I don't know how to say your last name- Labula, labula. According to me, Bo Lab love, the meaning of life is To love.
Beau:Wow, as you're asking me this, I'm just thinking about how that comes in so many different ways right To love may look different at different times, and so for me, to love is really it's to love myself first, is really just to. I honestly believe that if there's one thing I've learned out of being in recovery and being a therapist is that I can't help others if I can't help myself. And and I think I I have tried to do that before and it just doesn't, it just doesn't work and uh, and it just doesn't. It just doesn't work. So for me, the meaning is to is to, is to find something within myself. You know, I I believe that I'm on this earth because I'm trying to allow my soul the opportunity to fulfill its purpose. Right, so, so, so, so that is it. I think the.
Beau:I think honestly, the when when you asked me that question, the more I dig with it. That that's really the answer is. The meaning of life is is to live my purpose. The meaning of life is to live my purpose, and I think that can be again. That maybe could change. It probably looks different for all kinds of people, but I do believe I have an assignment here. I do believe there is something that I'm supposed to be doing on this earth and so far I'm doing it. I really believe that in my whole my soul. I believe that in my heart, that right now I'm fulfilling that purpose and I'm so grateful I get to do that.
Dirk:I can feel that as energy coming from you right now. Yes, I love that. Answer Next question.
Beau:The most meaningful thing I did yesterday was Play with my kids Play with my nine and my five-year-old, and kind of being a kid all over again myself by doing that.
Dirk:If someone comes to you and says or if I come to you and say I have a crisis and I don't feel like my life has meaning, can you help me? What would be your first or next step be?
Beau:Yeah, absolutely Tell me about it. Totally, totally be. Yeah, absolutely tell me about it. Like, totally, totally, just. No agenda, no fixing, no solution, problem yet right, I'm leading with just curiosity and I'm gonna create a space this is the important part. I'm gonna create a space where this person does not feel judged by me and I'm going to allow them to be themselves in this moment so they can tell me what's going on in their world and what it is that they do need and how can I help. I really believe and this is something I do with the I didn't say this earlier but the veterans I invite them to come back and serve as trail guides oh, nice. And so now they're coming back and they're helping and they have to learn how to do something. As a trail guide, you have to learn how to listen, and so we teach them how to listen to understand, not listen to fix, right, and so that's what I'm doing. If somebody comes up to me and says they're in a crisis, love it.
Dirk:The most meaningful work of art that I've seen in the last week or so could be music, could be TV show or painting or anything that comes to mind a movie book.
Beau:So I'm going with whatever comes up. Right, I'm going with my gut. Wow, I didn't realize this. It goes back to my kids. It's going back to my kids and you're making me emotional right now thinking about that. Actually, it's them and the things they do, and whether it's my nine-year-old trying to play the drums or my five-year-old trying to draw something, there's perfection in their imperfections and to them it's beautiful and I love it. I love it. So I've seen what they're creating right now and I would have to say that would be my answer.
Dirk:I love it. Have to say that would be my answer. I love it. So any final thoughts or messages that you would like to share with? Uh, you know all the massive audience of this podcast.
Beau:Yes, yes, um well, I would say that. Uh, um well, I would say that, uh, you know, if you, if you're not aware of or familiar with ifs, do yourself a favor and and check that out and if, if you do resonate with it, find someone that can help you learn more about it and can help you learn about yourself in a way that I promise you it's gonna, it's gonna, it's gonna help you show up and in a different way. I've seen it, I've experienced it. It's, it's a gift. So thank you, and thank you, derek, for thank you for inviting me thank you, bo, for your time and for talking with me.
Dirk:this has been so fun, thank you.
Beau:And can I do one more thing, of course? Okay, I want to share the coffee bean story with you.
Dirk:Okay, this is my final message?
Beau:Okay, my final message is be a coffee bean, all right. And so there's a story about this guy who goes to prison and before going to prison, everybody's telling him what he needs to do to survive prison, and it's not really good advice. So finally, this old man, mr Jackson, comes up to him and he says don't listen to any of them, here's what you need to do. So he pulls out this egg, this carrot and this coffee bean and he says what happens when I put this egg in hot water? He says it changes the egg, it becomes hard. He said you don't want to do that. You don't want to be so hard that you can't let other people in or you can't reach people. And he says what happens when I put this carrot in hot water? He says it changes the carrot, it becomes soft. He said so, you don't want to do that either. He says but what happens when I put this coffee bean in hot water? Says it changes the water. Right, then, change the coffee bean. So he said be a coffee bean.
Beau:When you walk into an environment, you change the environment. You don't let it change you. And that's how self-energy is. That's how in ifs, when we're learning about this and we're tapping into that. That's what our parts feel, that's what other people feel, right? So you change the world, only to change you, and my final message is to do just that be a coffee bean. I love it.
Dirk:Thank you, she says as she turns on campus, no particular tone of voice it's one and nine and I'm based by no discernible goal.