Honesty With Yourself: The Conversations That Change Us

What we leave unsaid can steer our lives as much as anything we declare. This week, we sit down with producer and theater enthusiast Kevin Ferg to trace the quiet turning points that shaped his path—from Columbus, Ohio, to the buzzing stages and back offices of New York City. Over a pot of strawberry green tea, we dig into the messy middle between truth and strategy: how coming out unlocked confidence and creativity, and how staying silent at work can be smart or self-defeating depending on what’s at stake.

We talk candidly about fear of being othered, the relief of finally saying “I’m gay,” and the strange ways auditions, rooms, and relationships shift once you’re not hiding. Then we get practical: when silence preserves your future self, when it erodes your body and paycheck, and how collective voice can move a room more safely than going solo. His story about dancing eight months in shoes two sizes too small becomes a blueprint for better boundaries, clearer asks, and protecting your craft.


If you’ve ever wondered whether to speak, to wait, or to let the room carry the message, this conversation offers real-world cues and hard-won wisdom. Press play, sip something sweet, and tell us: what truth changed your path once you finally said it out loud? If this resonated, follow the show, share it with a friend, and leave a quick review—your words help more listeners find us.

Transcript

Welcome, Guest Intro, Origin Story

SPEAKER_03 0:15

Hey friends, it's TJ. And you're listening to Tea with TJ, where our love for tea, conversation, and self-improvement interact. So let's take a deeper dive into my cup and let's have a chat. Hey friends, it's TJ. Welcome to another episode of Tea with TJ. And if you are new here, consider subscribing to the podcast. You can follow us on all the podcast platforms and subscribe to us on YouTube as well. Today I have a very special guest, Mr. Kevin. So for our folks listening and watching, can you just tell me your story?

From Ohio To NYC Theater Life

SPEAKER_02 0:57

Yes. What's up, TJ? What's up, the TJ listeners? It's me, the one and only Kevin Ferg. But also, my mother named me Kevin Ferguson. But um, yeah, a lot of people know me as Kevin Ferg these days. And I'm just out here living my best life, being a theater enthusiast, living in New York City, trying to make the dream happen. From Ohio, shout out to the Midwest. And yeah, here now here with TJ.

SPEAKER_03 1:27

Wait, so are you from Ohio originally?

SPEAKER_02 1:29

Yes, I am from Columbus, Ohio. I don't think I knew that. Yes, Midwestern. Moved here right after school.

SPEAKER_00 1:36

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:37

I went to school at Wright State University in Dayton, Ohio. Shout out to go to the Raiders, you know, go Raiders. Um yeah, right after graduating from there with my little theater degree, moved to New York.

SPEAKER_03 1:49

Love it.

SPEAKER_02 1:49

Love it. Did you do performance or yes? I did theater study, so it was a mixture of performance and admin and management. Nice. Which somehow I ended up using all of that now. I love it. I love it. That makes a lot of sense.

SPEAKER_03 2:04

Um, okay. So, and how long have you been in New York? This is the 11th year. Wow, congrats. What the hell? Congratulations. Through the pandemic. Yeah. Yeah. You are officially a New Yorker now. So I was gonna say, after you make it past year 10, you are an official New Yorker. Yes. Um that's amazing.

SPEAKER_02 2:23

We out here, but I'm still rep in Ohio because New York's a little hard. That's that's fair.

Cosmo Feature And Producing Ambitions

SPEAKER_03 2:29

That is fair. Um, okay, so let's jump into this topic. Um, so you I gave you a few options, um, like I do with all of the guests, and you kind of towed the line much like a tourist does, which I was kind of expecting. I was like, it's fine. Um, and so I chose the topic for you, um, which is essentially things that go unsaid, which I thought was an interesting uh topic for you to discuss. Um, before we jump in this, I want to um bring up that you were in what magazine was it?

SPEAKER_02 3:08

Girl, no, okay, yes, I was in Cosmopolitan magazine. There we go. So you're in Cosmo.

SPEAKER_03 3:13

Can you just share with us? Because when I say tell me your story, that's something that you should include. Because that's a huge highlight. Not everybody is in Cosmo. That is true. You know, that is true. Let's tell us a little bit about that first.

SPEAKER_02 3:24

Okay, well, that uh kind of fell from the sky. Okay. I wish it was something I applied for, but me and my boo, who I'm so in love with, we got featured in Cosmo as one of you know Harlem's cute couples. Um, but I have been in magazines before that. So this is this is very exciting. I, you know, uh featured in Essence magazine. Some and I also did a shot for uh Moby Fest, which is a collective of men, but they did a photo shoot for Nylon magazine. Um, and I've been featured earlier this year in Quintessential Gentlemen. So I think it's like producer turn model or something. I don't know what's going on. But yeah, it's been a couple of magazines.

SPEAKER_03 4:08

I love that. And I love that you opened the door because you didn't mention it before that you are a producer. So I would also like that to be included into your story so you can just tell us a little bit about that as well.

Choosing The Topic: Things Unsaid

SPEAKER_02 4:18

Yes, yes, yes, yes. So I mean, I grew up acting. The the passion and the love for theater came while I was on the stage. Um, and then I went to school for it and kind of like got a preview of what like the producer life could be and a preview of what those budgets look like. Um, and I'm just a realist and I have materialistic dreams like a lot of tourists do. So I'm in this business for the money, uh, unapologetically. And um I kind of like naively, is that the word I'm looking for? Uh assumed that producers were rich. They are not. Right. Not all producers are rich. I found that out once I was in it, but now I know how to get to the rich producer standards, so I'm still working towards that. But the original plan of pivoting from like being on stage to being a producer was just me trying to find more financial stability within New York City.

SPEAKER_03 5:14

Well, I mean, that's fair. We all we are all searching for that dear God. Um, I love that. That's um that's amazing. I don't think I have had anyone on the show yet that lives that far up in the food chain when it comes to um theater. And I and I say that with love, not like in a not in a shady way. Uh most of the people who have come on have been like performance-based first or like artist forward. So to have someone that is um on the business side of theater, I think is also very insightful to have for our folks listening. Um let's jump into this topic things that go unsaid. Right. I am making my tea. It's getting it's getting hot. I was gonna say give it a taste. So today we're having uh strawberry fields. It's a green tea with strawberries in it. What are your thoughts?

SPEAKER_02 6:04

Yes, and you made it nice and sweet.

SPEAKER_03 6:06

I was gonna say, you you requested it to be very sweet.

SPEAKER_02 6:09

Like, this tastes like a Snapple beverage, okay? This tastes like nice and supple and sweet.

SPEAKER_03 6:20

Can you taste the strawberry in there?

SPEAKER_02 6:22

No, I really can't. It tastes um, it almost tastes like low-key, like you put a Starburst in it or something. Like it's very fruity in that way. I live.

SPEAKER_03 6:30

Love it.

SPEAKER_02 6:30

Good. Come on, tea time.

SPEAKER_03 6:32

Welcome to Tea with TJ. See people sleep on the tea when I'm like, no, I know how to pick tea. This is good. Um, so first question, let's jump into this, right? Uh, what is something that you wish you had said sooner in your life? And this can be metaphorically, this can be out loud, however, you want to answer that.

SPEAKER_02 6:50

Something I wish I would have said sooner in life. I'm gay.

SPEAKER_03 6:56

Well, that's fair.

Coming Out Late And Self-Acceptance

SPEAKER_02 6:57

Yes, that is fair. I have always been this flamboyant and this fabulous, but I waited a very long time before, and longer than a lot of people would assume, honestly. Um, uh, and there was so much speculation in my high school and in my childhood days. Like, is he gay? Is he gay? Because it was it was you know how some kids just look like friendly and bubbly. You know, I look like a gay child. I was something about me, I had a little sparkle in my eye. Um, but I resisted it for so long. Um, and no reason uh outside, no family dynamic that was telling me I couldn't be gay, no friend dynamic. It was literally an internal thing that I was like holding back on. So yeah, if there was something I could have said earlier that I kept quiet for too long was that I was gay.

SPEAKER_03 7:40

Do you queer? I'm I'm in a similar space that I one, I grew up a church kid, so that's a whole other thing. And I grew up down south, which people who, if you listen to the show, you've heard this story probably a million times at this point. Um, but it took me a long time to reckon with my uh queer identity because I also consider myself to be queer and not just gay. Um, because the the sexuality on is on the spectrum. Um a lot of us like to pretend that it is not when in actuality it is. Yeah, but that's a whole nother episode. Definitely a spectrum. Um, but what do you think kind of hindered you from like acknowledging that that piece of you?

SPEAKER_02 8:21

I don't know. I guess I was afraid to be othered. I was um I yeah, it it all was going well in childhood for me. Popularity, grades, friends. I I had basically like the thing that all the kids wanted. You know what I mean? I was homecoming king. Oh wow, yeah, like it definitely was like, hmm, high school's fine. Like a lot of kids are like, I'll never want to go back to high school. But I kind of had a good childhood. Um, outside of the fact that I was torturing myself on the inside by not wanting to not being who I knew I actually was. And fear that like I had all these good things going for me. And if I came out as gay, then I'll now I'm not gonna be one of the cool kids.

SPEAKER_00 9:01

Yeah, well, that's fair.

SPEAKER_02 9:03

But I actually came out and got cooler, so yeah, it gets better, okay? To all the gay kids out there coming out. And I feel like the kids now have half the issues that we remember the say gay commercials that we had to don't say gay. They don't do that no more.

SPEAKER_03 9:19

Um, when has silence uh protected you, do you think? And I I will kind of like live in this so good. Thank you. Um I will kind of live in this conversation that we're having right now because I feel like it's a good direction to go into. Um but in your kind of um keeping that piece of you silent, do you feel as if keeping silent, like actually keeping silent, protected you or kept you safe or kind of um influenced how you move through the world?

When Silence Protects Or Hurts

SPEAKER_02 9:58

I mean I feel like there's a time and place to say things. Um I do feel like once you say it, then we can actually work on getting over it. So if anything's holding you back, you're not being able to get through it because you're not addressing that thing that you feel like you need to hold in. Um but Shobiz uh quietness, I feel like is different than your own queer journey quietness. Shobiz quietness, which is what I feel like we're talking about today, is me thinking about my future self. If I say this, how will this affect me a couple years down? This Shobiz world we're in is so like finicky. People have seasons that they're hot. So if you pick a beef with somebody right now, just because they're not hot, that doesn't mean they're not gonna be hot in two years and be the hottest thing and have influence to block you from getting your stuff now. Right, right. Maybe for that one season that they're hot, but they still will have ability to block you because two years ago you said something that they didn't like. So I feel like that's where silence comes in in show biz the fear of pissing somebody else off.

SPEAKER_03 11:18

Okay, that's fair. I wanna I wanna redirect to this question because I I I liked the idea of us kind of living in this queer space too. But do you find is there a moment in your life you think you um lived in the silence as a queer person um where it kind of protected you or you felt like you you had to be silent in order to keep moving forward?

SPEAKER_02 11:41

Um yeah, I feel like well, you know, I think there was a lot of pressure on me early on because I've uh my grandma took me to my first play when I was 12, and that's kind of how it all started with the whole theater love. And I don't know, for some reason there's just a lot of queer people in theater. So me growing up, being like, I'm not gay, I'm not gay, but I'm like the president of the drama club every year, has people wondering all the time. So I guess that was a little bit of the frustration not saying what I knew was true because um people were like, you must be gay. You're the president of the drama club, you must be gay. Meanwhile, I was cute, so girls were looking at me. Okay, so I'm like, well, if I just have a couple girls looking at me, I guess I'm straight. But child, I kissed that boy for that first time. Oh, honey. Okay, oh, honey. Listen, my straight friends were trying to peer pressure me into having sex with girls. It happened, and I'm sad that young Kevin experienced that. But I kissed a boy for the first time. It was literally mind-blowing, like literally better than sex. Like, you know what I mean? So it was one of those moments where I was like, oh, it's like about the sexuality. Like, this is fun. This kind of sex is fun, you know what I mean? Like, that's what my body was feeling. I was like, oh, that's why all the boys were hype in sex. You know, they were with the people that they prefer, and that's why it was so fun for them. For me, I was a little underwhelmed. Shout out to those girls. Sorry, y'all, if y'all watching this. Oh, jeez. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 13:19

Uh I love this. Uh, do you think there's ever been a moment in your life where silence has kind of hurt you? And this can be professional, personal life.

SPEAKER_02 13:31

Well, yes, but also, I I I a lot of the people who know me know I don't know like a middle area. I know too hot and too cold. Oh wow. So, yes, and I'm still working on it. That's good to know. Yes, that's why with silence for me, it's like, bitch, I'm saying silent because I'm about to blow up on you.

Anger, Boundaries, And The Power Of Quiet

SPEAKER_03 13:52

Wait a minute. Let's let's pause and let's excavate that for a minute because now I'm intrigued. So, on this spectrum of like hot and cold and not having a middle ground, in in your and let me let me offer this first before we go into the question. I am the type of person that my silence is very loud, right? I have very loud energy. And so usually, not all the time, and this is growth, usually when I am silent, something is really wrong. Yes. Like if it's taking me to get to that point, some like there is there is something in the water.

SPEAKER_02 14:30

Well, yeah, that's why it's so funny that I'm on the silence pot, uh, the silence episode, because I usually don't stay silent. I'm I'm learning the power of staying silent. Um, but because I'm always so loud, like you, people are clocking when I'm silent. And I'm seeing power in that. I'm like, oh.

SPEAKER_00 14:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:50

They know I'm mad and I don't have to scream. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:52

You know what I mean? I mean, and here's the thing.

SPEAKER_02 14:53

They know I'm upset with them and I don't have to knock all this shit over.

SPEAKER_03 14:56

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 14:56

I can just stay silent, actually.

SPEAKER_03 14:59

I was gonna say the thing is that I'm not a um, I am not generally an angry person or um a high energy person. I'm I've always been the calm one, quote unquote, or like the collected one.

SPEAKER_02 15:13

Oh yeah, you're real chill. You are like a nice, sexy, deep voice. You like blink slowly, you give nice firm hugs.

SPEAKER_03 15:20

Well, I also believe that like why why rush through life? You know what I mean? Like, I don't understand why we need to, especially living in New York, I feel like we're always on the go and constantly moving, moving, moving. Um I want to enjoy every ounce and every every second of my life. So sometimes when I need to move quick, I will. But like generally speaking, I'm a slow mover. Um, but I all that to say that I think my my silence is usually seven out of ten, not always anger-based. If I get back to the anger place, then that that to me I feel like is much louder than my normal quote unquote silence. Because my normal silence is usually disappointment or it is um tiredness, it is uh irritation. Because I do, I think there's a nuance for myself. I can't speak for everybody else. There's a nuance between my irritation and my actual anger. Um, and that's taken years of therapy to be able to delineate those two things. Um, but my irritation is the first line of defense when it comes to me and my silence. Um, because it is not me, it's not necessarily always again, seven out of ten. It's not usually always directed towards anyone, it's usually situational. It's usually the train was late or I got rained on today, or you know, the dog peed in the house or something like that. And it has nothing to do with anyone else, but people notice it and then they absorb it and think that it has something to do with them. Yeah. But also being honest about myself and saying that it's not your responsibility to take on what I'm feeling, you know, just as much as not my responsibility to take on what you're feeling. Now I can assist you and I can help you, but you know, it shouldn't, it shouldn't have to be that way. But anyway, I digress.

SPEAKER_02 17:18

Um But not everyone thinks like that, and that's unfortunate. Some people do want you to be mad because they're mad. Mm-hmm. Adults. Yes. Throwing temper tantrums.

SPEAKER_03 17:30

Yeah, yeah. I've encountered a lot of people of the like of that mind in my life.

SPEAKER_02 17:34

Who choose like loud yelling and anger over silence and breath and calmness and taking a beat.

SPEAKER_00 17:42

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:44

Which is crazy to me as theater people too. I'm like, come on. You would think that we would all know how to delineate our feelings and be able to process them in real time and actually say, okay, well, wait, how does this make me feel?

Career Silence: Checks, Credit, And Calling Things Out

SPEAKER_02 17:58

Nope. All the drama club kids, you know, they all grew up, they all are working in different lanes of the theater now, but they're all dramatic little drama club kids at heart. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03 18:07

Like, yes. Yeah. Um, but getting back to the question that I posed to you, uh, do you feel like there's been a moment in your life where that silence has kind of like hurt you?

SPEAKER_02 18:19

Um, yeah, for sure. I mean, hurt hurt me personally because it's me having this longing of wanting to scream something out to everyone, but I can't uh for uh sake of I'm an adult. I've grown. Not you don't have to say everything out loud. But then there are some things that I'm like, this is not my fault. And I need the world to know that this is not my fault, but I can't, because then I'm gonna air somebody out by letting them know that's not my fault. It's gonna they're gonna be like, well, whose fault is it, Kev? Yeah, well, whose fault is it? Say their name, Kev. And I'm like, no, no. But what does that solve? That's unnecessary, right? To say their name and everything. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 19:00

Because it still doesn't change the fact of what happened.

SPEAKER_02 19:03

Yeah, I'd be pissed. I'm holding this in. I'm like, ooh, girl, I'm seeing you smile on the Instagram. Ooh, girl, I'm about to air you out, but I'm not.

SPEAKER_03 19:10

It's a what does that solve though? You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 19:13

My internal anger, I'll be happy with myself. Maybe, maybe I won't though.

SPEAKER_03 19:17

I was gonna say, will it though? No. Because I feel like at the end of the day, it the action still happened, right? And unless there's some sort of um acknowledgement of whatever it was, then it doesn't actually go anywhere, right? Like that energy doesn't go anywhere.

SPEAKER_02 19:31

I guess, but you know, to my core, you know, I said I'm from Columbus, Ohio, and I know a lot of people don't know this, but there's a really ghetto corner of Columbus, Ohio, and that is where I'm from. Okay. Okay, so inner child Kevin be trying to come out and handle you girls sometimes. But I have gone to college, I have read now, you know, a little therapy, you know what I mean? I'm grown, so I can't, but inner child Kevin really be wanting to air the girls out. That's right. I get it. No, no secrets, no sign, you ain't silencing me. Were you silent or were you silenced? Okay. Okay. I love that.

SPEAKER_03 20:08

Uh, do you think that an act of silence can be um a form of love? Sure. Sure. I'm sparing you. Oh, okay. Okay. I didn't think of it that way, but sure. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 20:22

I think um, like if your homegirl has a bad outfit on, you need to tell her. That silence is not fair. You know what I mean? So, um, but it like what we were just saying, like if you're just trying to air somebody out just to air them, like, no, that's not gonna be helpful. That silence is not helpful, you know what I mean? Um if your friend is very excited about the new shoes they got, but you aren't, silence yourself. They're happy about their new shoes. You know what I mean? That's when you can, you know, have a helpful silence. I get that. You know what I mean? I get that.

Group Voice, Budgets, And The Shoe Story

SPEAKER_03 20:54

And I'll even flip that and say that like I think it's less about in that situation, it's less about the silence and more about the support. Um, ooh, that's um I feel like it is more about being supportive with someone, even through your own um objective opinions, right? So it's like if you don't like the shoes because they don't speak to you, that's totally fine and fair, but this person may love them and like it makes sense for them. So it's like instead of yes, being silent, but being supportive in the sense that you don't need to voice your own opinion in the other matter. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 21:31

And you know, there's always that if you don't have nothing nice to say, don't say it at all. But sometimes you gotta say it. But that's fair. Think about your future self.

SPEAKER_03 21:40

Well, um, have you ever broken a silence that changed your life? I guess we kind of touched on this, but I mean, yeah, with the queerness.

SPEAKER_02 21:52

Uh, as far as a career in life, broken a silence. Um You know, with me and my boo, you know, you gotta like always keep it real and not hold things in. You know what I mean? So um breaking silences within your relationship of, you know, you want this to keep working. You know what I mean? Don't be letting things just like uh fester and grow in silence. You know what I mean? So I think that's one of those moments too where I've I've learned like, child, that did not help keep my mouth shut about that. We need to speak up. Oh yeah. Um, career-wise, though, I don't know. I haven't really ever felt the need to really address anything because the check always clears. That's fair. I told you I'm in it for the money teaching. That's fair. That is fair. Yeah. As long as the checks have been on time, and whoever be working in these financial offices that I work for, it'd be on time. Yeah. You know, and now the work not always so fun. Something to complain about with the work. But in my former life, I wasn't working. I feel that. So now I'm here and I just hate every job. And these jobs are fabulous and they're very fun, and I feel so grateful to have them. But like working, I'd rather be sitting on my couch. That's fair.

SPEAKER_03 23:15

Yeah, I'd rather be on somebody's stage than in most of the jobs that I have. Yeah. That's a whole nother episode.

SPEAKER_02 23:21

Well, we live in New York. Somebody got paid his rent.

SPEAKER_03 23:23

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It ain't gonna pay itself. Um, I think there's um the the silence that changed my life, I definitely feel like is coming out, of course, hands down. I think it is it's one of those things that when I go back in retrospect and really examine it, I'm like I wasn't living my fullest life at that moment in time. And it wasn't until I said those words out loud to whoever needed to hear them that I felt like I was finally me. Um, and I even noticed this, and I and I've talked to my other half about this a few times in our relationship because we were together for four years before I actually came out. Fun tidbit. Um but I even felt like going into audition rooms felt completely different. Fully like accepting who I was.

SPEAKER_01 24:16

Girl, yes.

Culture, Church, And Unspoken Language

SPEAKER_02 24:17

Oh, yes. You step into a whole nother moment once you see your friends and you're like, Yeah, I'm gay. And you're like, oh, I said it to my friends. I said it to my family. Yeah. It's all it's it's done. It's official now. It really does feel like I'm coming. You know what I mean? It feels like Diana Ross, I'm coming out.

SPEAKER_03 24:35

Like it's very liberating. Yes. But I would even say that there are there are other moments in my life that I think my silence kind of changed the trajectory of everything. Um, I think, and more like a metaphorical silence, I think there have been plenty of times where I've been in a show where I've stayed silent about something that I felt very strongly about, and I allowed other people who also felt the same way to speak on my behalf.

SPEAKER_02 25:01

Okay, now I do do that too. Yes, yes, yes. If the whole group is mad about something, I'm like, you should go tell.

SPEAKER_03 25:06

But here's the thing out of the box. Here's the thing, not with that, that's me not sharing anything. And that is me one believing that there's this that there is this universal energy exchange and thing, and then like there are things that transfer from people to people. Um, but I've been in situations where like I felt some kind of way about something and I kept my mouth closed because I didn't want to um engage in a negative way or like start anything, quote unquote. But then a week later, someone else brings up the same exact thing without me even saying anything. And I'm like, huh, okay.

SPEAKER_02 25:40

It got handled. Yeah. Yes, that happens all the time. Chow, I did a whole eight-month tour one year with shoes that were two sizes too small. Danced in shoes that were two sizes too small, and I was too scared to tell anyone because I knew that was gonna require them to buy new shoes, and I didn't want to be the person to affect the butt child with a pair of shoes. Now, knowing what I know about budgets, I'm like, Kevin, you should have told them about them dancing shoes. But I was even scared as an actor then to even just let them know like I'm uncomfortable dancing in these shoes. I probably hurt myself on that tour, eight months dancing in shoes that were too small, but Jesus.

SPEAKER_03 26:15

You know, that's something that you know no, no. Yeah, I know. Because I'm like, at that point, you're playing with the sustainability of you being in that show for the length of time you need to be in it.

SPEAKER_02 26:25

I was young and dumb and just excited to have a contract. That's fair.

SPEAKER_03 26:28

I can think I've been there too. I've been there too. I got my first tour was a children's theater tour, and it was not the best situation. I I I love all of those people that I did it with, but there were some things that like we should have said, no, we're not doing two shows, driving across the country and then doing a show.

SPEAKER_02 26:49

Yeah. Oh, yes, I know them children's theaters. Yes, them children's theater tour. Oh, they used to put us through it, girl. We have we've we found more purpose in what we want to do with our artistry now. I feel like in those early days, I was auditioning for everything, child. Just throwing shit to the just to the wall, just you know, that's what you gotta do. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:08

Um, do you feel like there is um any sense of silence that shows up culturally? Mm-hmm. Because I'm already thinking about a few examples.

SPEAKER_02 27:21

I'm thinking about a few too. Which one do you think about though?

SPEAKER_03 27:23

Well, I just as a black person.

SPEAKER_02 27:25

Uh-huh. Say it.

SPEAKER_03 27:26

Specifically being a black person from the south.

Creativity: Quiet vs. Chaos

SPEAKER_02 27:29

Oh, okay, get into it.

SPEAKER_03 27:30

Uh there is, and it's not like silent silence, there are there are mouth sounds. There's a mm-mm. No words, just sounds. Well, well. Um, there are things like that that I think are innately us, which I love. And uh I've grew up with some of those people who have used those things, and it is a whole language within itself that nothing needs to be said. It is literally, you give you a look and a you just know. And you know exactly what you did or what you didn't do. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 28:09

I yeah, I feel very, yeah. My particular story is very, uh, I feel very fortunate. Um, and I guess this sounds crazy to say, but I wasn't raised very churchy, and I feel a little fortunate for that because uh I love church. I don't really have any like negative feelings about it because I didn't grow up in church. So for me, it's the Clark sisters and Kirk Franklin and Fred Hammond, you know what I mean, and their amazing music and their giant choirs, and you know, that's all I connect with church. But I know a lot of my church friends who were like raised in the church, and they were they got the mms and those side eyes just for being their natural, fabulous, queer selves. So I feel very fortunate that um my family just wasn't on those vibes at all. And then um to like have a grandma who saw some kind of sparkle in me and was like, maybe I should take him to a play. He might like theater. You know what I mean? And then I saw all these other queer kids. I was like, oh, this is amazing to have family who put me into those spaces, knowing that I probably would have more access to queer culture. I just I feel very grateful for that because I feel like as black people, sometimes we see a little queerness in our children and then start blocking them from seeing more queerness and accepting themselves.

SPEAKER_00 29:30

Yeah, I agree.

SPEAKER_03 29:32

Um, do you feel most creative in quiet or in noise? Give me a circus, give me chaos. Really?

SPEAKER_02 29:41

That's why I'm in this city. The honking of the horns, it motivates me.

Deep Listening And Podcasting Muscles

SPEAKER_03 29:44

I was gonna say I can't work in complete silence, which is crazy because I like being silent. Like my my my self, like my innate self, like right now, while we're recording, like this level of quietness is perfect for me. Like I could sit here and just do nothing and be completely fine. But a lot of people, it's too loud. Yes, it's too loud for that.

SPEAKER_02 30:08

Girl, I can hear everything in here. It's so quiet.

SPEAKER_03 30:11

But when I'm working, when I'm working, I have to have external sounds. Um, because I'm such like an like an audio person and like I can hear everything, sitting in this silence and trying to work, I will get distracted by like the clicks of the keyboard or the pencil writing or whatever it is, or my breathing or whatever. Yeah. So I have to have some sort of like kind of um soundtrack, if you will. Yes. Like a little underscoring.

SPEAKER_02 30:37

Yes. Silence is golden sometimes.

SPEAKER_03 30:40

Yeah. Yeah. Um, how do you practice? Uh speaking of listening, how do you practice listening deeply?

SPEAKER_02 30:49

Oh, I do a lot of mmm, I do a lot of uh, I do a lot of you say what? No, I'm just I don't do that. I mean, I feel like um active listening, it's it's just a matter, you know. I was telling you yesterday I have the gift of gab, which I feel like is a curse sometimes. But I feel like having the gift of gab allows me to clock in with other people's gift of gab and like really sit and listen to them. You know what I mean? Um, and then we bounce off of each other. Like, how am I gonna know what to talk about if I'm not sitting and listening to you? Yeah. Some girls just go on their own tangents, though. So that's very true.

SPEAKER_03 31:30

That is very true. Uh I will say, I think doing this podcast has um transformed my like deep listening skills. Because I feel like as an actor too, you you you have that skill, that skill set of like being able to take in what someone is saying, play with it, and then move into something else. Yes and um right, you know, the yes and uh and I think this podcast has helped me one keep that muscle going when I'm not on stage, but also I think has has upgraded it in a way to be able to a bit of improv. Fun fact a lot of these questions don't exist today, they do, but most times they don't. Um to do a little bit of improv to say, oh, hmm, I like what we started with that. Let me take this and then turn it into this. Um, so I think that having this whole show has kind of like really helped shape that even more. And I I use it even more now in my real life, and not just on the show.

SPEAKER_02 32:28

Yeah, I'm terrified of podcasts, but this is making me not so scared. Good. I'm glad.

SPEAKER_03 32:34

It's not crazy.

SPEAKER_02 32:35

They're gonna hear my voice recorded. Yes, okay, amplified in their ears. Okay, good. Is this ASMR? Is it how you do it? You do it like this.

unknown 32:43

Hello, people.

SPEAKER_01 32:45

Wait, no, that was scary though. That wasn't ASMR.

SPEAKER_03 32:47

You could use a little of the like the clicking of the cup. Oh, you can take a little sip of your tea. I mean, that's a little loud, but yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:01

Okay, we're gonna workshop the ASMR. We're gonna we're gonna workshop the AMSMR. But yeah, something about podcasts. Um uh I love them. I like listening to them. I have been recommended to get on them more often. Um, but I think that's just because I see the world so ridiculous. Um, and I'm always laughing about the world, and people find that refreshing, but I'm really just trying to laugh so I don't cry, kind of vibes, you know what I mean? But um yeah, uh this is very fun. This is very exciting, and I imagine it can grow a whole muscle if you like practice this because you've been doing this for how long?

SPEAKER_03 33:41

Uh, this is going to be in season four. So we're in season four. Oh my god, season four. Yeah, yeah. Welcome, welcome, welcome. Yes. Um, and it started with just me on the mic by myself, and then in season two, I was like, I want guests. Yeah. Um so I started with that, and then did season three last year, and now we're in season four.

SPEAKER_02 34:00

And now we are in season quattro. I know that's right. Yeah. Wow.

SPEAKER_03 34:07

Um, before we wrap this up, because we are almost at time.

SPEAKER_02 34:11

Oh my God, that was so fast. We didn't even talk about the scandals.

SPEAKER_03 34:15

What scandals? Part two. Jesus. Uh is there is there anything that you are holding on to that, and speaking of like this whole idea of silence, is there anything that you're holding on to that you have not said out loud that you want to say out loud?

SPEAKER_02 34:32

Mmm, what do I need to come out about? Well, this ain't really an X-rated podcast, is it?

SPEAKER_03 34:38

I mean, it can be. No, no, no, not today, sweetie. That's for the paid version. Okay. No, I'm not.

SPEAKER_02 34:45

Okay, that. No, because I really do feel like uh just continuing with like the queer journey of it all, the liberation part of it, uh, the sexual liberation part of it. I'm still working on that. Um, I want people to know loud and proud what I like, but there's still a little shame, I think. Um, so maybe that is what I'm currently still keeping silent. Um, yeah, nothing too crazy or taboo, child, but it's still just a matter of like shit being fully liberated. Like that's my goal as a queer person to not let myself be in any more closets. You know what I mean? So yeah, I I feel like not a lot of silences, but maybe some small, small little things I'm cherishing, you know, holding close to my heart for now. That's fair.

SPEAKER_01 35:34

But nothing crazy, nothing crazy. I think the craziest one was I'm gay. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 35:37

Yeah. That's good. Yeah, it was a good place to be. That was crazy for me because certain friends knew, certain other friends didn't know. It started to become a rumor meal, like it was really dramatic. You ever saw that movie Love Simon?

SPEAKER_03 35:49

Yes. Okay. Yes, yes, yes. I thought we were talking about the other night.

The Last Three: Friend, Quiet, Being Heard

SPEAKER_02 35:51

I watched it on an airplane. I don't know if it was because of the altitude or what, but I was crying my damn eyes off. I don't cry. I think my tear ducts are too dry or something. I wanted to talk to the doctor about it, but they said that that's not really a thing. But something about me producing tears is hard, but not when I was watching Love Simon. And Love Simon is about a little boy who wants to come out the closet, and everything around him gives him green signs to come out, but he still decides to say closet. And I was like, oh, this is a story that other people have experienced. So interesting. Go back and watch Love Simon, y'all. It it I mean, it's a little about a little white boy, but you know, you can still connect if you're queer.

SPEAKER_03 36:30

Yes. Interesting. Um, well, before we go, where can the folks find you?

SPEAKER_02 36:36

Oh, yes, they can find me on only I'm just kidding. They can find me on all of the family-friendly social medias. It's the Facebooks and the Instagrams and all the YouTubes too at Kevin Ferg. Okay. I got everything at Kevin Ferg. F-E-R-G. It is the first syllable of my last name. Kevin Ferguson, Kevin Ferg. It should be easy for people to find me, but um, if not, uh, call TJ and he'll tell you how to find me. It'll be linked everywhere.

SPEAKER_03 37:04

Uh, and before we leave, leave, there's a thing that we like to do called the last three. Oh two and TJ. Yes. Three questions unrelated to the topic, just to show a bit of your humanity to our audience. You ready? Oh, God. What are these questions about to be humanity? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's in you can answer them how freely you want. They can be one-word answers, they can be a short sentence. Okay. You know, first thing that comes to your mind. And the most authentic self should answer. Okay. You ready? You're about to get canceled. No, I'm not. Okay. No, I'm not. Not at all. Uh, what's a word that you hold close? Friend.

SPEAKER_02 37:44

Friend. I think it's used too loosely. I think I've used it too loosely, and I am connecting with that word friend.

SPEAKER_03 37:51

I love that. Um, same. I don't call everyone friend. Um, where do you go when you need quiet?

SPEAKER_02 38:00

When I need quiet. You know, I could go home to Ohio. But if I need a quick, quiet, I go to my house, child.

SPEAKER_00 38:12

That's fair.

SPEAKER_02 38:12

I'm paying all this rent. You know, I can I can find a lot of solitude. I'm a tourist too, and I think a lot of tourists find solitude in their nest, in their home. Um, so yeah, I love being at home. I I'm for the streets, but I'm really for the couches.

Plugs, Part Two Tease, Closing

SPEAKER_03 38:28

That's fair. Um, and then final question: where do you feel most heard?

SPEAKER_02 38:33

On the stage. On the stage with the spotlight hot, sweetie. Okay. I can't even see y'all because the lights on me so bright. I love it.

SPEAKER_03 38:45

I love it. Amazing. Well, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you for the witness. Yeah, um, it's been a long time coming. We've been trying to I know, girl.

SPEAKER_02 38:51

Well, we're busy, okay? We both working. Yeah. Okay, we got things to do. But I'm so, so, so happy we made this time today in the middle of a storm. And now actually the sun is out. Clock it.

SPEAKER_03 39:04

Well, look, my church people, you know. Um, thank you again for doing this. This has been great. Um, I don't think this is gonna be your last time on the show. So stay tuned, sweetie. We'll do a part two. Uh, and with that, friends, I will see you next week. And that's our show, friends. Thanks for joining us on Team with TJ. Please rate, review, and subscribe. And you can find us on Instagram at Team with TJ Podcast. As always, stay kind, keep sipping, and remember, do a so you might as well do it.