Letting the Mask Go: Accepting All Parts of Yourself

What happens when the mask that kept you safe starts to shrink your life? We sit down with our friend Jeffrey Vizcaino—actor turned Playbill social lead—to talk about performance, protection, and the messy art of speaking in your real voice. Jeffrey takes us from his early theater years and burnout to building inclusive platforms for new songwriters and off-Broadway creators. Then we get honest about the masks queer people of color learn to wear: the lowered register to dodge mockery, the “retail voice” that smooths edges, the posture we adopt in rooms thick with flags that feel like warnings.

The conversation moves from community to self. Inside queer spaces, labels can liberate and limit at the same time. We unpack “masc for masc,” desirability politics, and the pressure to refit your hair, clothes, and energy to match a trend that changes with the algorithm. Jeffrey shares how confidence lands differently when a camera and a celebrity are involved. We draw a line between professionalism and self-erasure, and why platform size shouldn’t be the price of authenticity.

Therapy and language become turning points. TJ shares how the pandemic ended his habit of filtering Southern Black vernacular to stay “palatable,” and how learning to name feelings—clearly and without apology—changed work and love. We talk about emotional masks, why partners aren’t therapists, and the small rituals that help us unmask at home. Along the way we make space for joy and the everyday grace of liking your own smile or your own eyes in the mirror.

If you’ve ever wondered where safety ends and self begins, this one’s for you. Hit follow, share with a friend who needs the reminder, and leave a review with the mask you’re ready to retire. Your story could be the permission someone else is waiting for.

Transcript

Welcome And Jeffrey’s Story

TJ 0:00

Or specifically queer people of color. We have to toe the line so often with trying to appease, whether it be our family, our the people we work with, our communities, you know, whomever. We have to appease these people to make it palatable for them, this version of us that they're okay with. So let's take a deeper dive into my cup and let's have a chat. Hey friends, it's TJ. Welcome back to another episode of Tea with TJ, and today I have a very special guest. We used to work together during merch. Jeffrey, welcome to the show.

Jeffery 1:09

Hi. TJ's so excited to be here.

TJ 1:12

Glad to have you. Um, so I ask every guest that comes to the show because I know who you are. Sure. But the people listening and watching don't know who you are. Um, can you just quickly tell me your story?

From Acting To Playbill And Purpose

Jeffery 1:24

Yeah, so my name is Jeffrey Viscaino. I am a Ecuadorian um of this wonderful country. Um my both my parents are Ecuadorian. Uh moved to this wonderful country when I was very young. And let's see, um I I guess what a lot of people like to call a multi-hyphenate individual. Um started from a really young age doing being a professional actor, or did that for a long time. Um, kind of stepped away from it for a little while because as a I guess when I was in grade school, early grade school, was doing it professionally. And then at some point when you like make that awkward transition between like child actor and adult actor when you're can't not really castable. Um, I still I stepped away from it just to like be a kid because even at I think when I was like an early teenager, I was like, oh, this is a business, and all my other friends are like doing this because they like just love it and it's playtime. And I was like, I know, like, oh, this is what you have to do in order to get like your hours for insurance and stuff like that. And I was like, that's not something a 12 or 13-year-old should like have to think about. So then sipped away from it and then went to college for drama and then got back into it, was working uh, because I went to college in North Carolina and then got into the uh equity theater down there at the time, was working then, and then started working regionally, national tours, and then worked, did one specific show for uh for a lot. I did Putnam County Spelling B all over the place because there is one role, William Barfay, that I got really well known for doing. So I was doing that all over, and then I kind of like got burnt out after like two and a half, three years of just doing that show back to back to back. And I said, All right, let me take a break, let me step back. And so I worked for the public theater for a little while, and I was there during the whole Hamilton when that happened. And then when Hamilton ended at the public, there's people, a part of that team was like, Well, what are you doing next? And I was like, I will continue to work at the public theater, and they're like, Oh no, you should come with Hamilton, and so then started working for Creative Goods, and that's how I met you, and uh was working there for a long time, and then um still like kind of still going doing some acting gigs here and there, and then uh a friend of mine approached me and she was like, Hey, I have this web series that I'm working on. I would love for you to like help me with it, help me direct it, and maybe we can pitch it to some of the like Broadway websites. And so that show at the time was called Backstage Bite with my friend uh Katie Lynch, and so it was like a baking interview show with Broadway Stars. Got picked up by Broadway World. Um, started, I started working on the social media for that. Um we like blew up very, very quickly with that, and within the first three months, Broadway World approached me and was like, Hey, we really like what you're doing with the series. Would you be interested in becoming our video producer for the website? And I said, sure. And so then that's when I like basically stopped doing merch stuff and then was doing Bradley World stuff full time, and then at that point I was videographer and video editor for everything on their website, so was the camera guy videographer for red carpet events and all this other stuff, and then I also was working and helping doing their social media, and that did that for like four years, and then what was that? And then after about four years, um I was approached by Theater Mania, and they're like, Listen, we have our senior video producers leaving. Would you be interested in coming over with us? So I kind of got a little poached by them, left, went to them, was there for all of four weeks, and then the pandemic hit. Okay, and then uh we all got let go. And so then during the pandemic, I was kind of just like freelancing, doing social media work, and then at the very towards the end before everything opened up in the summer of 2021, uh, I found out about Playbill was uh going to be hiring a new social media director. Okay, and so I basically, like I said, I had known this field really, really well. I've been doing red carpets, been doing all that other type of stuff, and so I applied and I got the job. And so I've been with Playbill as their social media director since September of 2021.

unknown 5:48

Wow.

Jeffery 5:48

And I've been there ever since. And so now um I am, like I said, I run all of their social media um for Playbill. I do all of their red carpet coverage, I do all their press events, all in studio interviews, that type of stuff. So if you ever go to any of Playbill's socials, you'll probably see my face all over there. Uh especially like on Tony Nights, you'll see me for like two and a half, three hours doing the red carpet live. And so it's just been really fun um basically using what used to be like my acting and presentation side, and now finding a different venture for it in this way. And so that's what I do. But besides any of my work stuff, um, I am a cancer.

Speaker 4 6:30

Ah uh we go. There it is. There it is.

Jeffery 6:33

There's the real story. Um, I'm a cancer, um, but uh my what is it? My moon and sun or whatever the rest of them are are double Scorpio. Oh so she is a water sign, ladies and gentlemen. Watch out. The waves are big.

Speaker 4 6:51

Right. Okay.

Jeffery 6:51

Um, so there's that. Um I'm single if everyone is listening or is interested. Um and yeah, I love New York City. That's kind of like one of my defining things I always say. It's just like I'm a New Yorker through and through. And yeah, that's that's a that's my little story.

TJ 7:08

I love it. Um, I don't think I had realized that you had been at Playbill that long. Um, because I feel like I hadn't seen you for a while post-Hamilton, and then I like left to go work at Disney for a hot second. And I don't know why I thought that like that happened like way past the pandemic in like 23 or 4 or something like that. Um, but that's amazing.

Jeffery 7:30

Yeah, it's been great. I it's a brand that I'm uh that I love that I think anyone who's a theater person knows. And uh yeah, I just it's a not only is it great what my position is, but I just feel like I'm working for a brand that's not only just really well known, but for me what my mission has always been for this brand, and I felt like this always that when I was growing up, I was young, chubby um kid with a Latin background, and I never felt like I saw myself or people in my community presented in any aspect of theater, whether I was watching YouTube videos of like any of the one from any of the different platforms, and so one thing I always said that if I was in a place where I could be a part of this industry, I wanted people who I never saw and then to have the representation. So that's one thing that when I started working at Playbell, I was like, you have this brand, this brand deserves to show all the different types of people, not only just people who get to be on stage, but the people who get to create this music and people who write this stuff and the people who help design these things, and so um, and so yeah, that was like just little things that I was I'm just really passionate about that and this brand has allowed me to have that. They've never questioned kind of my ideas, they've always been like, do go run with your ideas, go do it. So I started a series called the Songwriter Series, in which we I basically find um composers, lyricists who have not had their big break, would I say, and I allow them we kind of do like a tiny dust series where they come do like an acoustic version of some of their music and they get to present three to four songs and then they just present it, and so I mean a lot of them have never had a chance for their their music or anything they've heard to be seen on like a like a large scale on a large scale sing, and a lot of them have now gone on to like become Jonathan Larson grant winners and stuff like that, and so it's just that type of stuff is what I'm really excited about. And then when I try to find like interviewing certain shows off Broadway or whatever, because what I appreciate about this community in New York is there is so much more than what we see on Broadway. Very true, and I sometimes worry that if you are not in the bubble of NYC, you don't know what's in the city unless it's on a major scale, whether it's performing on the Tony Awards or whatever. And so one of my big missions has been like, even if there's a small off-Broadway show that maybe five, no, let's say like 5,000 people might click to look on that video on our Instagram, YouTube, whatever. At least that's 5,000 people who saw it who might have never seen it beforehand. So sorry, that was kind of a long ramble, but like that's just kind of been like my what I really love about this job is that I'm really trying to obviously support the shows on Broadway and all their different aspects, but I really want to give spotlight to the people who've never had that opportunity before.

Representation As A Daily Practice

TJ 10:23

I love that. Um, it's funny how this has happened twice today already, because this is the second episode that we're recording today. Um, it's interesting that your perspective working for Playville and wanting to give voice to so many different groups of people. It's interesting that you brought that up because of the topic that you picked today. Because we did say that we were not talking about Broadway today, and we weren't gonna talk about work. Typical me. I always do. No, no, no, but that's fine. But the topic that you chose talked about masks and the ones that we wear and that we have to constantly trade and put on and take off and put on and take off. Um, and it's kind of interesting because I feel like in a way, you have been wearing a mask for a long time, up until having to work for Playbell.

Jeffery 11:11

Oh, I've I've been wearing I have a full arsenal of masks that I wear, and that's the thing I think I really wanted to talk to about in general is because I think I mean everyone wears many types of masks. Um, but especially because I wanted to be on this podcast as queer people, we grew up wearing a mask.

Speaker 3 11:31

Very true.

Jeffery 11:31

Um, I can't speak for myself, but like people of color constantly having to wear certain masks. And it's actually interesting. I think the one reason why this one hit me most recently is I just got back. I went on vacation. I do this thing with a college friend of mine where we have a bunch, a group of us that go down to North Carolina to the beach, and we get this like ginormous beach house in Ocean Isle Beach, it's like right on the ocean, and it's great. And we've been going this is like I mean, many, many years we've been doing this. And because of the situation of politically with our country right now, this was the first year I ever felt not with my group, but when we go out to dinner places or stuff in and around North Carolina, I found myself, I mean, I guess you can call it like code switching or like wearing a mask. But the first time, like I literally was like, when we go to a restaurant when we went out, because there's this restaurant we go to, and beside it, it's like this like ginormous tchotchke kind of store that we always go to, and it's ginormous, like it's it's this massive, massive place. And I've usually I go around and I'm just being myself, which I can be anywhere from like super flamboyant to like how I am right now. And I found myself the minute I started to get like a little loud and a little like I I don't know what the word would be, I literally like could feel eyes suddenly on me, and certainly like, oh, um, suddenly noticing like wow, there are a lot of American flags here. And before American flags didn't used to be something that you get nervous, and so suddenly I feel like I feel like, oh, let me put on this mask really quickly so I can one I mean, masks sometimes I think we when we talk about in general the mask, it's about like hiding a part of you, but masks are also a way you protect yourself. Yes, it is a disguise, yes, it is, and so like I think sometimes masks are not great in interpersonal situations, but when it comes to the world, a mask literally is I mean, I'm being dramatic here, but for some people, it is the difference between life and death in certain situations. And so, um, yeah, so when I saw this prompt about masks, I was like, well, I just dealt with that for the last two weeks. Um, because anytime I was not in this house, which is my bubble of my fun liberal family that I was with, the minute we stepped out there when I went to a grocery store and stuff like that, and we're driving by with trucks with flags, with Trump flags and stuff like that. Yeah, I suddenly found myself being like absolutely changing myself. And it's funny, I was actually thinking about it on the way over here. I was like, oh yeah, I'm gonna do another. I'm doing a podcast today. My entire life, even now at my age, even to when I was a kid, I always, anytime I was on the phone or any audibly, I've always dropped the octave of my voice, and I'm doing it right now because people automatically think my normal voice is that of a woman. Because I am what? A tenor, and I'm also what a counter tenor. So baby's voice is real high.

TJ 14:20

Let me tell you something. I do the exact opposite. This show is one of the few publicly facing places where you hear my natural voice. You know this because you worked with me that very much in a retail setting, the retail voice comes on, right? I very much, oh hi, how are you? How are you doing? And it it flips into that that headspace for my singers out there. It flips into my headspace. And I've done it for so long having to, like you mentioned earlier, code switch and kind of present as this non-threatening person, being a 6'4, 300 pound man, but looking the way that I look, to some people allegedly, I can come off intimidating. So it's very rare that people actually ever hear my real voice. And in this show, in this medium, one, because the pod mic makes me sound you know smooth and velvety and all that stuff, and I love it because that's that's my voice. Yeah, totally. Um, but in so many situations, I find myself, and and more so as as a 30-something now, I find myself checking it, being like, no, use your real voice. Stop pretending, stop putting on for people, stop appeasing people, yeah, and and be who you actually are, um, and stop trying to like create this narrative or or lean into the narrative that people have put on you that you are this visually threatening person. I'm the the probably one of the sweetest people that you will ever meet. 100%. Um, but so much of my life I've had I've been told and taught and brought up, especially down south, to constantly be, you know, in I'm sure with you being in North Carolina for a good chunk of time, yes ma'am, no ma'am, yes sir, no sir. Right? And having to put on that mask of this this subordinate role of being like, oh no, whatever you say goes, like, okay, yes, I understand. Like always accommodating, never actually creating any type of friction. Um, and it it's interesting because I feel like I'm glad that you brought that up, the voice thing, because I was like, that's that was that triggered me. Cause I I find myself now, especially as a singer too, having to fight that battle and unlearn all of that shit of like, oh yeah, okay, no, I don't actually have to live in this type octave. Like I can I can talk from my chest like I'm supposed to, and just let my actual voice come out. Totally. And whatever people do with it is their problem, not mine. But I love that. I but I I interject to keep going.

Jeffery 16:54

No, no, that's exactly and I think what I've in my what's the right word says, um, in my journey to be my more authentic self, I have figured out at least what's comfortable for me, and other people can have their opinions on this, is that I will start in the lower voice, and as I continue a conversation, I will allow myself to get to the higher place. So by the end, you're hearing the real me, um, which maybe I'm kind of right now in that place right now, um, where that's my authentic voice. And so, especially when I'm doing an on-camera interview or something, they hear the low register, so it's not just like jarring, whatever. And then as I go on, so by the end of it, they're like, Oh, they're hearing who I am. But I know that for so many, if they just like start a YouTube video or whatever, and they hear my voice, it can be an instant, like, who is this or like what in college? I remember one time I was at a football game, and I don't know what the situation was, but there was a guy who was sitting in a seat, which you know at college, um, when football games they just give the students whatever. I went to like my assigned seat in this football game, and this guy was sitting in my seat with his girlfriend or whatever, and I was like, Hey, I'm so sorry, this is my seat. And the first thing he said it was like, Have your balls dropped yet?

TJ 18:08

And I was like, Oh no, clock me.

The Theme Of Masks Takes Center

Jeffery 18:11

Like, he got me. Like, I was like, but um, yeah, so like that's the only thing. So I think stuff like that's always made me paranoid, especially around the male gays and stuff like that. Is that, and by gays, I'm gonna let you take that however you want to. Um, uh, that it just yeah, and so that is a mass that I am constantly playing with as well.

TJ 18:31

I get that. I mean, here's one thing with that. I just I think I've gotten to an age where I just don't care anymore. And I'm so tired of like pretending and trying to be something that I'm not, and I'm trying so hard to be the version of myself that I want to love and actually appreciate and say, this is who I am. I don't care who you are, you can either like it or not. Um but that whole that whole concept of like the voice thing, it's so it is so embedded in my brain and like in my subconscious because I I remember one of my first voice lessons here in New York was shortly after I moved, and I had a conversation with the voice teacher, um, Natalie, I love you by the way. Um had a conversation with her and was like trying to explain to her. I was like, you know, my singing voice, I know that you're hearing my talking voice right now, which was two octaves higher than what I'm speaking to you all right now. I know that you hear that, but vocally, my voice lives a lot lower. And she could not understand it. She was like, but no, like I hear, you know, because voices are like, no, like your speaking voice is very similar to your singing voice, like I hear it. And she heard me sing, and I actually sang, and she was like, Oh, okay. Got it. I see, I see. There it is, there it is. Um, so just constantly trying to unlearn all of that stuff has been eye-opening for me.

Jeffery 19:56

Yeah.

Safety, Code Switching, And Voice

TJ 19:57

Um going back to this idea of these the plethora of masks that we put on. Um, I want to touch on this queer mask because I know um I did not come out until I was 23, 24, somewhere in there. I don't know, it's been so long at this point. Um, but I've always been not light in the loafers necessarily, but I've always been um a light-spirited person. I feel like it's the best way to describe it. Because I I don't think that I've ever been, and I will say this out loud on this platform. I love the films. Just an FYI. Um, I've never been feminine, um, but I've had softer moments because of how I grew up, who I grew up around, mannerisms that I picked up based off of like my grandma, my aunt, my mom, all of these women's in my life. Um, but I've never been like quote unquote flamboyant, and I don't say that in a derogatory way, because again, I love everything. Um, but just trying to illustrate a point here, that I've never been that person, right? Um, I've always had this um, I guess you could say mask presenting, quote unquote, version of me that existed. And so when when I came out, allegedly, it was a shock. Uh I don't understand how that was the case because I'm like, I I knew what I liked, right? Like I it it is what it is, right? Um but in the in this this this queer mask space, because I'm I feel like I'm getting off topic a little bit. Um but in this queer mask space, I feel like so many times for us, especially as queer people, in even more specifically queer people of color, um, we have to toe the line so often with trying to appease whether it be our family, our The people we work with, our communities, you know, whomever. We have to appease these people to make it palatable for them to get this version of us that they're okay with. And again, I've been talking about this all day, but I feel like the older I get, the more I'm just like, but why? Why? For what reason? What what sense does it make? Why does it matter how you feel about me? That's your feeling, not mine. Because I'm living in my most authentic self, right? Like, if you don't want to accept that, that has nothing to do with me. Yeah. Right. And I say that in a loving way, but like I I think I've arrived at this place where I'm just I'm so tired of people putting down other people based off of rules that they learned, learned behavior. Um, and not actually basing any sort of constructive judgment off of someone's character.

Jeffery 22:58

Yeah.

TJ 22:58

Um, so needless to say, I'm gonna get off my soapbox. No, no, I like that soapbox.

Jeffery 23:03

No, I just want to add to that is that I think that idea concept that you're saying about like you're just tired of doing anything. I just kind of wonder I because I feel like everyone eventually gets there. And is that only something that you think only time it takes just time in your own skin to realize that? Because that's something that like I remember when you I guess in my experience, I've had a lot of um, for some reason, I in high school I used to volunteer at a lot of um elderly home stuff, and it was always like the and when I say elderly, I mean like they are on their their last whatever, those were the people who very much were just like just just be you, just enjoy whatever. Cause I think at some point in your life you reach an age where like the flip uh the switch just gets flipped, and it's just like none of it matters, like none of it matters. And so, like, as much as I wish I could know the idea of like living in your best authentic self is the best way. I just unfortunately I think that's one of the things that like maybe it's one of the things that like as youth you just never really understand it until it just wears enough of you that you're like this doesn't matter anymore, or like I'm just tired of trying.

TJ 24:20

I think I think there's a version of it where yes, age uh helps, but I also I've seen it firsthand in people who were my age or younger living out fully. Sure. And this is this is pre in a world where we had the language of non-binary and sure to spirit it. Like this was well before um culturally we were even at that place. Yeah. Um, but I remember I remember in high school looking at some people like, damn, I wish I could be like that. Like I wish I could just not care and just be out.

Speaker 5 24:54

Yeah.

TJ 24:54

Um I I I I don't know. I think it's a I think those people are very unique and um very special to be able to exist in that space at such a young age because I do also acknowledge and realize that like that is a very um vulnerable space to be in at that young of an age. And depending on where you are, and I mean, I think even realistically now, probably more so now than it was when we were growing up, it's probably even more um vulnerable to be as out as what I remember seeing in certain parts of this country, uh, which is a little terrifying to say in 2025.

Jeffery 25:37

Totally.

TJ 25:37

Um, but I wanted to ask, have you had um any experiences from yourself of like where you had to like maybe code switch with your queerness in having that mask on?

Jeffery 25:52

Sure. Um I would say so as much as I like I one thing about me and when it comes to my queer identity, I uh I hate queer labels, and I get it. Like we we as a community in our history, there was a time where I think the labels were really important for us because we just didn't have an identity period because we were in the closet in the dark for so long. So when we did, they like we started, but like now I've gotten to the point where like I mean, we all know the different ones, it's like bear, blah blah blah. And so, like within the community that I have been assigned in, um, in the bear chub, whatever thing you want to do, I constantly within my queerness am seeing myself and other members of this subcategory constantly putting on different masks for our own community, which drives me quirk. Um, and so like I will like go to there's a thing here in NYC that they have like very happy hour, and I will go to that. And there are guys I know who are friends who them during that happy hour when they're on the hunt, that is for whatever they are looking for, whether that is like a date, um, Mr. This afternoon, like whatever they want to call it, but I will see them putting on the um mask for mask um mask. Um take double entendre, however you want to do that one. Um, and I will watch that. And so that's something that I unfortunately see um that mask going on within queerness already. And it's just something that I think I've fought very hard for for a really long time. Is it's just I will say this when you were talking about that when you were younger, that you wouldn't say you were light in the loafers, but you were your own version. Um, I was so light in the loafers, I'm not even sure I touched the ground. So there was no mistaking that I was queer or whatever. And so the idea of like putting on, like trying to come up with this like masculine front, I think my like my lowering of my voice is basically as masculine as I think is the thing I could jokingly even do. If I tried in any way to like look more mask or like talk or whatever, I just it's such a character for me that it feels almost like I am play acting again as opposed to like just trying to have human connections with everyone. Cause it's like, all right, I want to have a conversation with a guy, but let me also put on a mask and a voice and my physicality and the way I like move and mannerize on top of that. I'm just like, it's just too many things. I just like and also like if it's at a bar, at a club, happy hour, I'm there to have fun, and like having to like like juggle all these different plates of things in order again, the word I'll use the word you did to be palatable within my own community is insane, insane and absurd. So that's one thing that I'm fighting really hard with. But I'm truly, I would say, post-pandemic, I really feel like at least the type of community that I am or the people I'm in are really, really reverting back to like a very, very like if you were not masculine, you like this is not a place for you. I mean, I've definitely been at bars where guys are like, you know, you would be you like probably would attract so much more guys if you like didn't let your hair be long and you didn't have like longer hair, you really should grow out a thicker beer, maybe consider getting like tattoos on you and stuff like that. Maybe like don't like maybe wear like a bit more masculine clothing, which like today I'm wearing a black t-shirt and shorts. I don't know, didn't know that was feminine. That's usually what I'm wearing during the summer. And it's just kind of like, and you were signed at night, it's like it's just so tiring. Yeah, and so that's one thing I would say within my community. I'm like, I'm figuring out, like, I guess maybe I'm being like presented, like, oh, I see all these guys who are coupling up and they're putting on the mask, and I'm just kind of like, is that what I need or have to do in order to like find a potential partner? Because I've been single for I would say since before the pandemic, um, or like right at the pandemic, and so I was like, is this what it takes nowadays to do this? And I'm like, not really having that.

TJ 30:05

That has so much to do with everyone else and nothing to do with you.

Jeffery 30:08

Yeah, but if it has to do with everyone else and I'm the one on the outside, then it just leaves me on the outside.

TJ 30:13

Here's the thing though, and this is this is my opinion. This we're going a little off script, friends. Yeah, sorry. Um, I I believe that the person that is out there for you will see you just as you are and love every aspect of you. Sure. Right? No. And in I know that I'm speaking from a place of privilege because of the relationship that I'm in. However, I have encountered a lot of people in my life that I've seen that happen for them the moment that they stop trying to pretend to be what people expect them to be. Um, and that's just me talking to you as a friend.

Choosing Your Real Voice In Public

Jeffery 30:48

No, and I and I and I hear you, and yes, to get back on topic, yes, I hear you, I see you, thank you. And I like, and that is advice that like again, it's stuff I've many things we're doing. But going back to queerness and such like that as well, um, so that was one wearing mask in within the community, but I also find myself, and this is also maybe I'm just the only one who thinks it's crazy. I find myself with my queerness having to put on a mask, whatever, sometimes for my job, because sometimes I feel like, oh, I might be too queer, gay for some of these things. And it's like I work for a mute like a theater news outlet, and it's like sometimes it's like, oh no, I need to butch it up for this. And I'm like, so like sometimes when I like I'm on a red carpet, here's the thing there are definitely certain people that I interact with who don't like me in my full authentic self, and so I definitely know that like in order to be for the five ten minutes that I have to interview them, I have to like put on a presentation, except because if I don't, they don't take me seriously as a reporter. And I think we're also seeing right now with social media where like the more viral reporters, people on my carpets are people who are super authentically themselves. But then I'm but from my experience, it's oh because they're on a large platform that allows them to do that. But if you are a smaller platform, which playabil, while very well known within the theater community, in the world in the no, like they're like amongst publications, it's you know it's teeny tiny teeny. So when I'm as Broadway's gearing with dealing with more big Hollywood stars, I'm finding that in order to be taken seriously with them, I have to like mask up in different ways. Yeah um for that. I don't know if that's kind of what you would the question you were asking with with my queers. So I find that I'm not being able to be so some flamboyant, so like what I call like fun and silly and whatever I'm having to like really like put on, like I guess I don't know if professionalism is a mask or not, or there's just like set time and setting and stuff like that. But I definitely find myself definitely code switching um in that, and that as I'm trying to be more authentic to myself, um, stuff like that, I'm definitely trying to find that balance, I guess, of being that typical me.

TJ 33:22

I will say I um definitely went through a little bit of um I'm gonna use the word rebirth because that's the only thing I can think of in my brain right now, um during the pandemic, where I feel like I arrived at this place of like actually entering my blackness. Um and I'm kind of gonna use this as a segue into another question for you. But because you were mentioning this this idea of like the profession, the quote unquote professional mask and like how we have to put on in those spaces, for a very long time, I any work environment that I was in, even in a theatrical setting as an actor, but like acting, retail job, office job, any of those types of positions that I had, I used to very much um less blacken myself in those spaces. Again, to make sure that I was palatable for everybody, right? And I'm not I'm not saying that I put my blackness down to walk in the door, right? Because that's not what I'm saying. What I what I think I'm trying to to articulate is I found myself not reacting the way that I would normally react in this house outside. Sure. Um and trying to filter myself. There we go. Um, I was constantly filtering myself to the point that if if you knew me, like TJ TJ, outside of like a work environment versus like TJ at home, you would think they were two different people. Sure. And granted, I'm a Gemini, duality is everything, right? I know how to do it. But coming out of the pandemic and really kind of sitting with myself and learning to love all parts of me and really starting to say, Oh, oh, I don't have to do this. Like, I don't I don't have to pretend um for anybody. Um it put me in this place that when I came back to some of those work environments, uh, especially in the post-pandemic world where EDI was everywhere and like people were trying to like create spaces and it everything left and right. Um, I found myself finally being in a place where I'm like, no, if if if there's a joke that I like that nobody else gets, I'm gonna laugh. I'm not gonna wait for somebody else to laugh and then laugh. I'm gonna laugh because I think it's funny. Um, not in a disrespectful way, but like you know, I'm I'm going to laugh at something. Or I'm gonna stop tailoring my vernacular to the space that I'm in, knowing that I grew up down south and I have a very specific, unique vernacular of words that if you're not from there, you don't know what the hell I'm talking about. Um and and I think part of part of um part of what shaped that whole narrative for me coming out of high school, going into college, and then coming into like the quote unquote real world was an acting class where they kind of strip you of all the pieces of like your accent, your your culture, your heritage, where you come from, to be a blank slate to put on anything. And I think the thing that I realized during the pandemic and coming back into like the real world was I was like, but all of those things are things that make me me. So then I can play something. You know what I mean? It it allows me to have reference. Totally when it it's and it's crazy because I remember going to Cap 21 here in New York over one summer and the acting teacher Larry, his name is Larry. I will never forget Larry. Hope you're still around, Larry. Um I will never forget him saying to us, being like, a good actor is someone who lives. You have life, you have a life that like you can pull from, you can draw from. It was like, yeah, anybody can say the text. That's not like that's the easy part. Yeah, but when you pick up this cup, what does this cup do for you? You know what I mean? Does it remind you of something? Does it is it tied to something? What and then what's in the you know, all of these lists of things. And I think having to sit with myself for so long during the pandemic, with very little interaction with like the outside world, it was just me and and my partner here. I finally start to realize and understand that analogy and be like, oh, yeah, no, I don't need to like get rid of the things that make me me. I actually need to embrace them. You know what I mean? Totally. Um so all that to say.

Jeffery 38:13

Yes. Wait, I have an important question to ask. Can I try this tea now?

TJ 38:17

Oh yes, please, please, please. We for we forget about that part, sorry.

Jeffery 38:24

Okay, she's fruity.

TJ 38:25

I like it. Tell me what is this? So it's a uh blackberry oolong. Okay, I'm into it. I like it a lot. Thank you. I thought you would. You know, just a little tea moment. We have tea with CJ. Yeah. Um, so now, because now you have me thinking. Because we've kind of we've we we are way past time, but we're gonna keep going. Yeah. Um where does the masks fit when it comes to relationships with you? Oh. Because that's a whole nother monster in my mind.

Queer Labels And Community Masks

Jeffery 38:53

Yeah, totally. Um honestly, in my opinion, though I will say be honest with you, um, I have when I have dated, I've dated for a very long time and then nothing for a very long time. So I've had like two great loves in my life, so I can only say from those two experiences, but I will say those times was when there were no masks involved. Because if I by myself alone with that person could not be my most authentic, whatever self, that was then what what is the point of it all? Um, and I think even in the very beginning of like dating that type of stuff with them, I'm very, very straightforward. I'm very like open book. This is how I'm feeling. A lot of times, uh, like I said before, I'm a cancer. So if you know cancers, we love real, real hard. Um, not necessarily fast, but we love, like, we love hard. Um, and so I'm always like, this is what I'm feeling. You take without what you want, but this is me, like, this is hard on my sleeve. I whole thing because I'm Latino, like that's just my culture, is just we are not closed books, we are very open book. I mean, people will see my emotions before I even know what my emotion is. And so that is something that has been in relationships, the masks. I think when you kind of like in my family home, when you walk in, you take off your shoes, you walk off, you take off your shoes, and you hand you hang up whatever mask you were wearing out the door. And so when you come in and you sit down on that couch with that person, or you lie down in bed with that person, like that is yeah, that is you. Yeah, whatever drag you were wearing that day, that was hung up, whatever, and that is, and for me, he and I, like we were our most authentic selves in that that situation. I know that's not the case for everyone, but I will just say for us.

TJ 40:52

Yeah, I I love that because that just pinged a thought for me that like we we haven't gotten to this this topic yet, but like emotional masks, because I feel like that's a whole nother monster. Um, and I feel like it's more present in relationships probably than like outwardly facing public relationships. But that's something that I've had to learn in this relationship that like sometimes you just have to let it out, right? Like you can't pretend that everything's fine when it's not fine.

Jeffery 41:23

Um I think with my relationships, it was like you need to put something back, like you need to like plug up whatever it is that you have right now. Hold like and I think and again, not what you're saying about putting my with my relationship, it was like I'm only a person you should go to a therapist about this. Your your partner is not your therapist. Yeah, and so that was my but keep going on about yours.

TJ 41:45

There's uh because I I think there's again like pieces of me that that exist from my childhood and like where I grew up and how I grew up. There's a lot of historical baggage that leans into the idea of you don't burden people with your problems, right? So I I grew up kind of with that understanding that I'm like, okay, anything that I'm dealing with, I have to deal with alone. That I'm not allowed to voice X, Y, and Z and say, Oh, I'm feeling this way, or this, you know, this happened today and now I feel like shit or I feel terrible. Um, and that shift for me came from therapy and being in a confident, comfortable, and safe space to be able to actually say what's happening up here, um, which is a whole nother episode, people. Uh if you are not in therapy, please consider it and I will figure out a way to put something in the show notes. Um next role's an ad for what is it, better help therapy, like online therapy. That's like the ad in the middle of this podcast. Um, but that's a whole nother thing that like, you know, I I didn't know that it was okay to talk about your feelings. You know what I mean? Um, and so for a long time, I would I my my go-to line was I'm fine. I'm fine. Sure. Could be could be boiling inside, could be breaking apart inside, wouldn't be able to tell. You know?

Jeffery 43:15

Have you I don't want to say not the word master, but have you figured out is that still a work in progress for you, or is that something that you've been able to like learn from or like work on?

TJ 43:27

It is 70% better than what it used to be. Um it is still a work in progress. It is I'll tell you something right now. The the vast difference between the pandemic and now huge upgrade. Huge upgrade. Um I also think prior to going to therapy and having that experience, I didn't have I didn't have the language nor did I know how to articulate what I felt because in this this speaks to like the the type of like Artistic person that I am, but I remember at a young age that when I got angry or when I got sad or when I got frustrated or whatever the feeling was, music was kind of the way to fix that and to because it it felt more like colors to me. Sure. Um, and so I didn't know how to say you made me feel blah blah blah because of blah blah blah. But now, having gone through therapy and like figuring out ways to to channel all of that energy, I can now articulate, you know what? You said some lopsided shit to me yesterday that made me feel like I was a 10-year-old child again. Yep. And it affected me this way, this way, and this way. How can we figure out a way to move forward together to where I'm not carrying the rest of this myself? Um, two years ago, wouldn't have been able to say that.

Jeffery 44:49

That's I mean, first of all, congratulations on that. Because for some people, that is a lifetime. Some people go a lifetime without being able to A admit it and then B work on that. And then also, like, and I don't know about you, but I'll say for m the people in my circle around that, and people in my outer circles as well, as much as the pandemic was a horrible thing that happened, I would say like a good 60-70 people in my life found therapy because of the pandemic. And I don't know if that is because we all were so desperate to have someone to talk to by the end of it or during it, that like then we were like, Well, I can't talk to the person I've been stuck in this apartment with anymore. And everyone just like went to therapy. I just, I mean, obviously, there are still many hangups about mental health and stuff like that, but maybe as a culture, I feel like it was like there's a lot of barriers that were broken down due to the pandemic.

TJ 45:43

Yeah, we kind of shifted into this next phase um in in it in acceptance in a way of like collectively acknowledging that it is a real thing. Yeah because I feel like prior to that we wanted to pretend that it wasn't. Correct. Um so we have come to time, friend. Crazy. Uh this is I I like I had questions written down. We didn't even look at that because the conversation was so good. Um however, before we go, we do this thing at T with TJ called The Last Three.

Speaker 5 46:13

Okay.

TJ 46:14

Questions unrelated to the topic, just to give our friends a little bit of extra knowledge. Um they can be one-word answers or one sentence answers. Okay, however you feel, whatever strikes your heart in the moment. I'll keep them short, I promise. Uh what brings you the most joy?

Jeffery 46:30

At the moment, oh, y'all are gonna hate me for this. At the moment, what brings me a lot of joy right now is K-pop demon hunters. Okay. I love them so much. Okay. Give me everything. If you were to look on my TikTok right now, it is everything having to do with that crazy anime movie. But truly, I love it. People singing covers of it, learning more facts about it, watching people react to listening to the music for the first time. Keeping this real short, one thing that I really love is watching reaction videos of people listening to vocalists, like really incredible vocalists from, and watching someone get excited about someone hitting a note or watching someone hearing like a run for the first time. Ooh, there's nothing that makes more joy of being like, Oh, I remember how that was for me the first time I heard that. So at the moment, those are like really like I'm just I really, really enjoy it. I love it.

TJ 47:21

I love it. Um, who in your life embodies sunshine? Ooh.

Professional Masking On Red Carpets

Jeffery 47:27

Um, okay, I would say my uh college roommate um Mitch Danforth, um, I don't know how a human being has like obviously we grow and we change, but he as a energy of a human being has not changed, like he has not allowed the world to change his ability to be constantly optimistic about the world, about the people around him. He is such a truly like a ray of some shit. I he lives in North Carolina, I'm now obviously in New York. I just got to see him for like a couple hours when I was in North Carolina for this beach trip and be like in the traveling from to and from the beach, and like literally when I saw him, it was like reverting back to college days. Like he is just bouncing up and down, smiled ear to ear. He's just the best energy. So, like Mitchell Danforth, he is truly like sunshine, wrapped up in a human being.

TJ 48:24

Shout out to Mitchell. Yep, and then final question Okay. What do you love most about yourself?

Jeffery 48:30

Ooh, um, I love how loyal I am. I I love that I pride myself on that. Um, I think that goes back to again being a cancer. We are the ride or dies, I would like to say, of a zodiac. I love that about myself. Um, I love that I wouldn't just say like I have a good sense of humor. I love to make people happy and laugh. Like, I don't some people love to be a good host or whatever they just like if I get someone, if I say something and someone has a genuine laugh with me, not at me, but like, because there's some people who think being the butt of the joke is humor as well, I do not feel the same way. But if I can get someone to laugh with me with something I'm I've never been a hard drug user, don't know them, whatever, but I have to assume, much like when I was acting, when you can get that applause, that reaction, when you get someone, two people, a small group of people, and they all laugh at something you say, there is nothing that feels better. And so I pride myself of everyone being like, God, he's so funny. Like, wow, like you just like came up with that so quickly, like whatever. I pride myself a lot of that. But one thing that I'm trying really hard recently, with the thanks to my therapist, is I'm constantly telling myself what I like about myself physically, which has been a very long and hard journey for me. Um, but currently what I'm really love about myself is I love my eyes. I think I have really pretty eyes. Um, I constantly am told by many a a lady, by a femme queen, by whatever, how good my lashes are. So God bless that. And my cute little nose that she is all natural. And I've literally had people like stars on red carpets being like, You have the most beautiful nose. And I'm like, So those are things that I'm constantly telling myself, like, this is what I love about myself. And so I tried to, in the mirror, like remind myself or find things to say. I know we shouldn't care about the physicality, but I think if you believe like love something about yourself, it just changes something about the beginning of your day to start that. So those are my things. I love it. Wait, can I know? Can you answer that last one for me?

TJ 50:45

Uh what I love about myself.

unknown 50:47

Yeah.

TJ 50:47

Ooh, no one has ever flipped it on me from the last one, just the last one. Um okay, this is a vulnerable moment with TJ on his show where everybody's vulnerable with him. Um I actually really love my smile. Yes, you should.

Jeffery 51:04

Yeah. Yeah.

TJ 51:05

So it took me a while to get there, but yeah.

Jeffery 51:09

I will say just on that, absolutely. When you and I used to work with each other at selling merch, um, it was for me sometimes the best of times, but it was not a great experience for a lot of time. But there are at this point two people who really I consider friends from that whole experience, and that is you in Brooklyn. Like I consider you guys in, and literally when I used to like walk into a theater and see you and like your smile, that was like, all right, don't love this job, but at least I'm with good people today. And that was like your smiles for a hundred percent that is that well. There are again not the greatest times, but yeah, great. I made great relationships out of that.

TJ 51:50

Yeah, yeah, child, that was dark days, but it's all good. Um, thank you. I appreciate that. Um thank you for doing this. Absolutely pleasure to be here. Um this is great. This will not be your last time on the show because we need a part two to this. Yeah. Um, so we will figure that out, friends. Sure. Um, before we go, where can the folks find you?

Jeffery 52:07

Uh, you can find me on my socials. I'm lucky enough, and because I think I've always been a little social media savvy, even before it was a thing, um, my handles are the same on every single platform. It is Jeff J E F F, and then the first three initials or letters of my last name, V-I-Z. So Jeff Viz on Instagram, TikTok, Twitter, Blue Sky, Um, Facebook, Venmo. If you really enjoyed this, you can you can send cash here. I will probably forward a majority of that to this one here. But um, yeah, on all the things, Snapchat, all the things, it's always Jeff Viz. And if you want to follow what I'm doing for work, you can always find me on Playbill across all platforms.

TJ 52:49

Love it. And with that, I will see you next week, friends. And that's our show, friends. Thanks for joining us on Team with TJ. Please rate, review, and subscribe. And you can find us on Instagram at T with the TJ Podcast. And as always, stay high and today.