Drop the Goal... Enjoy the Journey | Ken Reinke | 217

What if the key to enjoying life isn’t achieving more, but learning how to get out of your own way?

In this inspiring conversation, Amanda sits down with Ken Reinke, author of *The Road Spoke*, to explore an extraordinary journey of adventure, consciousness, and letting go. A polio survivor who has traveled extensively throughout his life, Ken shares how, at 69 years old, he rode his bicycle roughly 3,700 miles from Florida to Washington and why reaching the destination was never really the point.

From learning to separate himself from the stories created by the mind to embracing uncertainty when things don’t go according to plan, Ken reveals how letting go of expectations has allowed him to experience life with greater freedom, presence, and gratitude. This conversation is filled with thought-provoking perspectives on goals, suffering, identity, resilience, and the simple but powerful practice of paying attention to what your mind is telling you.

💡 In this episode, listeners will discover:

🚲 How Ken completed a 3,700-mile solo bicycle journey at 69 years old
🧠 Why so much of our suffering can come from the stories we create in our minds
✨ The philosophy behind Ken’s powerful reminder to “drop the goal and enjoy the journey”
🌱 How learning to let go of expectations can create greater freedom and presence
💭 Why observing your thoughts without judging them can change your relationship with your mind
❤️ The powerful difference between being alone and feeling lonely
💪 How Ken refused to let living with the effects of polio define what he was capable of
📖 How his cross-country adventure inspired *The Road Spoke* and a message about getting out of your own way
🌎 Why living in the present moment can completely change the way we experience challenges, setbacks, and everyday life

⏰ Timeline Summary:

06:00: Ken reflects on growing up with polio, walking with a limp, and refusing to let physical limitations stop him.
10:00: Discovering the power of living in the moment and why Ken believes we should “drop the goal and enjoy the journey.”
16:00: Setting out on his cross-country cycling adventures with a loaded bicycle, camping gear, and an openness to wherever the road would take him.
22:00: Why unexpected setbacks don’t have to become suffering—and how the stories we tell ourselves can make difficult situations even harder.
29:00: Discovering *Think on These Things* and beginning a lifelong exploration of consciousness, non-duality, and letting go.
47:00: The 3,700-mile journey that inspired *The Road Spoke* and Ken’s message about learning to get out of your own way.
01:07:00: A simple practice for observing your thoughts, becoming more present, and creating everyday reminders to check in with your mind.

To Connect with  Ken, email him at: krreinkeauthor@gmail.com

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Transcript

Welcome And Guest Introduction

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to the Manders and Mindset Podcast, where you'll find both monologue and interviews of entrepreneurs, coaches, healers, and a variety of other people. Where your host, Amanda herself, will discuss her own mindset and perspective, and her guest mindset and perspective on the world around us. Manders and her guests will help explain to you how shifting your mindset will shift your life.

SPEAKER_03 0:32

Welcome to Mandarin's Mindset, where we explore the power of shifting your mindset to shift your life. I'm your host, Amanda Busto, and I am so excited to speak with today's guest. I am here today with probably one of my biggest fans. I am here today with Ken Vanke. And Ken is an author, even if he doesn't consider himself one. And we are going to delve down the book he wrote. He refers to himself as an old guy on a bike. He wrote a book about his transformative journey that he took on his bicycle. And we are going to delve down how and why he decided to take that journey. Thank you so much for joining me, Ken.

SPEAKER_01 1:22

You're very welcome. Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_03 1:26

Absolutely.

Consciousness And The Ego Mind

SPEAKER_03 1:27

So Ken so most of the episodes of Meander's mindset. So if you can tell, that's why. But Ken, you know all you already know what I'm gonna say. Who would you say you are at the core?

SPEAKER_01 1:42

Well, so at the core, definitely I am pure consciousness at the core. So I know that people describe on your podcast, they describe how others might see them or whatnot, but um what I'm really interested in getting into is consciousness. And we, all of us, and you, all the guests, are consciousness at their core, and everything else is kind of laid on top of that.

SPEAKER_03 2:21

When do you discover that you are consciousness?

SPEAKER_01 2:26

Well, uh, I've been at it a long time. And uh for the purposes of this podcast, maybe the good the best way to look at it is that we're all conscious, and then our egos are laid on top of that. Our minds, we're conscious of our minds, so let's look at it as consciousness and the mind. And the mind can be divided into the egoic mind and the useful mind.

SPEAKER_03 3:01

Well, would you say the egoic mind is? How would you describe that?

SPEAKER_01 3:05

The the ego mind is the part that gives gets us in trouble all the time and gives us trouble because we we're conscious of our thoughts, but we're not conscious of our egos, and our thoughts come out of our egos and tend to trip us. They trip us up.

SPEAKER_03 3:31

I agree with that, Ken. I do.

Childhood Chaos And Lasting Resilience

SPEAKER_03 3:34

Can you tell me a little bit about your upbringing, childhood, family dynamic, however deep you want to take that?

SPEAKER_01 3:44

Yes, well, I had a rough kind of childhood. My poor mother was an alcoholic pretty bad, and my father didn't know how to deal with that, so it was chaotic. When I uh, for instance, by the time I got through high school, all I thought really was that adults are only older children. Um, so no, I came out of that a little bit unhappy, but I got over it.

SPEAKER_03 4:24

Any siblings?

SPEAKER_01 4:26

Yes, I have two brothers and a sister. And so, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:32

Where do you fall in that middle, older?

SPEAKER_01 4:34

Yes, my sister was two years older, and my next brother was three or four years younger, and then the next one was a year younger. So I'm second in the lineup.

SPEAKER_03 4:47

So you're kind of in the middle, more or less. You kind of are.

SPEAKER_01 4:53

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:56

So how how was that? Do you did you get along with your siblings growing up? Pretty well, yes.

SPEAKER_01 5:04

Yeah. In fact, uh, I'm still close with my two brothers. Um, my sister, not so much. She got out of the house a little early, uh in the tumult, and we didn't bond as well.

SPEAKER_03 5:20

I gotcha. Where what's the area? Did you?

SPEAKER_01 5:24

Oh, Illinois.

Travel Bug And Loving The Road

SPEAKER_01 5:26

Illinois. Happy to be in Florida now, but yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:31

How how was Illinois? I've never been there.

SPEAKER_01 5:34

Well, it was it was fine. It's not, I don't go back there anymore. I've still got a couple relatives up there, but I something sent me on a life of traveling, and so I've been in 30 countries, hitchhiked all over the United States, back, you know, when hitchhiking was something you did. I've hitchhiked like 16,000 miles in the United States, and I worked in Alaska for quite a while, and the the company would fly me up from Seattle. I've been living in Florida, and so I'd one of the ways that I would get to Seattle is hitchhiking. So lots of traveling.

SPEAKER_03 6:21

In no, go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 6:25

I was just gonna say uh 30 countries backpack traveling. I mean, just a a traveling crazy guy.

SPEAKER_03 6:35

What got you interested in traveling?

SPEAKER_01 6:39

Well, I we were we always enjoyed traveling when we were younger. We liked going places and never really outgrew that. Just liking to see new places. I've taken it to a tremendous extent, but still we thought of traveling as a fun thing to do.

SPEAKER_03 7:04

Did you do a lot of traveling growing up?

SPEAKER_01 7:07

Well, so some, yeah. I mean yeah, not cross country, you know, like from Illinois, go up to Michigan or Wisconsin or Canada and stuff like that. Did a lot of canoeing up in Canada. So love canoeing, love biking, I love non-motorized transportation.

SPEAKER_03 7:34

I gotcha. Were you athletic as a

Living With Polio Without Self-Pity

SPEAKER_03 7:37

kid? Oh, growing up?

SPEAKER_01 7:38

Uh no, because I had polio as a baby. So I have always walked with a pretty substantial limp. Now, that didn't keep me from trying and doing, but uh one of the advantages to my having it at nine months old is that I grew into it. It wasn't something like I lost my ability to walk without a limp. I just always have. So it was it, you know, it's it's honestly it's a kind of an advantage to have having happened that early. I've always limped.

SPEAKER_03 8:19

I guess that makes sense, like what you mentioned, like kind of an advantage it being so early. You didn't like develop the limp.

SPEAKER_01 8:27

That's right. I I mean, I just had to grow into it, and so that gave me a little bit of not, you know, nothing's gonna stop me. Not that I was prideful, it's just that I'm gonna go do that. So I can swim, I can swim v extremely well. So so was I athletic though? No, I couldn't compete. I was always picked last in high school and junior high school. No, it's okay.

SPEAKER_03 9:03

You find that funny, Ken?

SPEAKER_01 9:06

Yeah, I do actually.

SPEAKER_03 9:07

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 9:07

Yeah. No, I get it.

SPEAKER_03 9:09

What is humorous about it? I want to laugh.

SPEAKER_01 9:14

I don't know. I mean it the thing is it's what happened. It's what it was. Uh you face up to it and oh, regret and feeling sorry for yourself is unfortunate. And I don't have either of those things in my kit.

SPEAKER_03 9:35

It won't really get you anywhere.

SPEAKER_01 9:38

No, no, it's no help. It's no it just brings people down.

SPEAKER_03 9:44

That's fair. So you've you've always walked with a limp. Did you have to ever use a cane?

SPEAKER_01 9:51

Oh now I do. Oh, I do now, you know, but I'm 70 something. But yeah, no, I've walked with a cane. It was really funny. My father was pretty fit, and he was when he was like 80 or 85, he had to use a cane. He goes, It makes me look old. So I'm like, I love my cane, I love it, and now I love my walker, I love it. Why do you love it again? Oh my goodness, it gets me around. I have uh one of those right now. I have one of those walkers with the little seat, so you can stop and turn around, sit down on it. But I have a a sort of a yard style one, it's got bigger wheels, and I can go out and do everything. So everything that I can.

SPEAKER_03 10:47

I get that growing up to do was it challenging for basic activities for you?

SPEAKER_01 10:55

Well, so again, I I don't really remember it being all that challenging. It's just that I had to, well, you know, like I said, getting picked last and stuff like that. And but it just didn't stop me. I don't know why it didn't stop me. But but I think it's because of that previously mentioned advantage that I just kept going. Just keep going. I wasn't positive attitude like I am now, but I just kept going. We're gonna we're gonna do this.

SPEAKER_04 11:36

So is there anything that helped you keep going? Um more now.

The 3,700-Mile Ride Takes Shape

SPEAKER_01 11:49

So I don't know. I don't know where I don't know about the cause and effect, but like when I was 69, I rode my bicycle three thousand seven hundred miles to Seattle from my house here in Florida. So but by that time, I have a mindset that allows me to do that, and um I don't I my mind doesn't make me suffer so much, so I'm you honestly living in the moment is the

Drop The Goal Enjoy The Journey

SPEAKER_01 12:36

very best thing anybody can ever do. And uh the closer you can get to living in the moment, and I know that doesn't that sounds funny to people because that'd be like oh you don't plan ahead? Well, unfunny on my bicycle trip, 77 days, and I almost I very rarely plan to stop. So I actually have consumed living in the moment. So it's just it's a fun way to go, it's what makes life fun, and I always tell people so sometimes I do talks now, sometimes bicycle-centric, but I'm like, drop the goal, and I would say that's true, that would be true for absolutely everybody doing anything. Drop the goal and enjoy the journey, and when you drop the goal, you will enjoy the journey, it actually comes right along. So I don't know. We got into a little bit of philosophy here.

SPEAKER_03 13:47

Drop the goal, enjoy the journey.

SPEAKER_01 13:50

100% that makes sense.

SPEAKER_03 13:53

Now, I'm curious. Before you did this big bicycle trip, I'm sure you started biking a little bit, like before you just took that big trip. How did biking come into your world?

SPEAKER_01 14:06

So biking has more or less always been there. Uh, when when I was a kid, when I was probably eight or nine years old, my father found a broken-down bicycle in a ditch, and he brought it home and fixed it up for me and my brothers, and so you know, so for instance, walking with a limp, is it hard to ride a bike? Hell, I don't know. It isn't now, but when I was a kid, I just you know got on the thing and rode it. So, but that's what I remember. I don't remember tribulation about it.

SPEAKER_03 14:43

And did you consistently continue riding riding bikes?

SPEAKER_01 14:48

Well, so again, I'm no youngster, but mostly depending on where I've lived and what I've been doing, I've usually had a bicycle. I've lived it, I lived in Alaska for several years, had a bicycle up there, and so I and I traveled around the country a lot in my car, almost always with a bicycle in it or attached to it. So again, it's that non-motorized traveling, so you can stop the car and get out and ride, and you get a more intimate look at wherever you are.

SPEAKER_03 15:31

That's true, a more intimate look. Hmm, okay. So I'm curious, before you came to take this this big biking trip, when did even the idea approximately like just wake up one morning and be like, okay, I'm going 30,000 miles this this time. He hiked and he did he rode a hundred miles last week, but like you didn't just wake up one one Sunday and say, Okay, we'll go in all the way over there.

SPEAKER_01 16:06

Well, so all of my life I have thought that riding a bicycle across the country would be a cool thing to do. So that that has always been there, but I've always done other things, the foreign country travel, and I've always done other things, but then I retired and I was riding my bike a hundred miles a week, and that's once I you know at first I could ride 12 or 15 miles when I first moved to Florida, got my bike, and but over a year's time, I could ride 30 miles in the morning, and I would ride a hundred miles pretty much every week. But that's a lot of time spent on the same trails and stuff. So it just came on, it just came on automatically. It's like, I wonder if I could make it across the country. And the actually, I my first trip was to San Diego, so that was a little 3,000-mile trip. And but you know, again, I'm riding a lot, I'm not a newbie at all. I'm riding a lot, but I wasn't riding a loaded bike. And every one of my cross-country trips, I've actually had several shorter cross-country trips, like to Nashville and to Key West. But I start out, I leave my carport with 50 pounds of gear on my bicycle. So I've got a tent, you know, got two bedrolls. I don't sleep on the ground as well as I used to, and supplies, you know, every things that I need. So yeah, but it just it to answer your question. I mean, it just came on. It's like, okay, maybe it's time for another adventure. And so off I off I went. I mean, I did research and stuff, but yeah. And there's a there's a group called Adventure Cycling Association, and they make it a lot easier. I recommend anybody thinking about doing this kind of thing, go to their site because they actually have mapped for several ways across the United States. So the first time, when I went to San Diego, I used their maps. They have it takes seven of their maps, and you don't have to figure out the route, you just have to figure out everything else, but you've got a decent route because they don't put you on the superhighways unless they have to out west or something, but you know, they have you on the best roads for that tier. So they have what they call the southern tier, and that goes from St. Augustine to San Diego, and it goes right by my house. So I that's what I did. I got their maps and did that. The Seattle trip two years later, so I was 67 when I did my first cross-country trip with no experience of cross-country or even spending the night.

SPEAKER_03 19:25

And how was that?

SPEAKER_01 19:27

It was awesome, but I also, like I said, by then I don't suffer in my mind, I don't cause suffering in my own mind, and if and you can see it rising, and you just let it go, and let it go should be the title of this podcast, because that's what I'm expert at. Letting go, let go.

SPEAKER_03 19:55

So you say you don't cause suffering in your own mind. Can you elaborate on that?

SPEAKER_01 20:05

Well, for instance, so when I so when I crossed to Seattle, I had no maps. Well, I mean, I had local state maps and stuff like that, but I didn't have that beautiful map that that the Adventure Cycling Association provides because I was going diagonally across the United States and they don't have anything like that. So I'm now traveling without I'm using Google Maps Bicycle, and I'm using paper maps. I love paper maps,

Getting Lost Without Adding Suffering

SPEAKER_01 20:42

but Google Maps Bicycle a couple of times put me on bridges that weren't there. So you can imagine, and one of them, I actually I was in trouble a little bit because it was really backcountry riding, and I got there and there's no bridge, and I'm out of water, and but I don't do that to myself. I don't cuss Google Maps, bicycle. None of that helps. I don't do anything that doesn't help. You know, I'm like, okay, I'm stuck, I've got to backtrack out of this horrible route I just came down to find this bridge, and spend a significant amount of time lost. But what are you gonna do? You just gotta go. You can sit down. I could call somebody, but that was the the first time that happened. I was uh in Mississippi somewhere, and honestly, this is something uh folks out there you don't cross country ride. A lot of times you don't know where you are anyway. You know what I mean? It's just like you turn down this road and you know you're gonna go 12 15 miles or 50 miles or whatever. And you just go. And then it's like, oh, what road am I on? I don't remember. But it doesn't matter. So it's a freedom that cannot be described. Because I would now I'm mostly referring to my Seattle trip. Get up in the morning, get on the road, and go. Where am I gonna stop? I have no idea. I don't have any agenda unless you know I've gone four or five or six days without a shower and I need a motel room. Then I usually have something picked out. But otherwise, it's a really cool freedom, and it's impossible to describe because nobody lives like that.

SPEAKER_03 23:12

Nobody lives like that. That's true. And I want to backtrack a tad. You mentioned you don't do anything that doesn't help.

SPEAKER_01 23:24

Yes. The because what we do with our minds is we start telling stories. Now you've got a situation here, but then you start telling stories about it. And a lot of them are poor me and oh, poor me. And so I don't do that. I don't tell myself these stories. I go, This is the reality right here, sitting in front of me. And any negative, all the negative stuff that you can throw at that, you know, you can be mad at Google Maps bicycle, and you can be mad that there might have been a bridge here, but it isn't here now, and stuff like that. That actually happened to me a couple times. Because I'm traveling backcountry stuff without men, you know, without a route, no route, never planning a route. Letting the I had waypoints. So I rode to a friend's house in Mississippi, and that was 850 miles. And then the next people that I was going to stay with were in Denver. So I was over what I call the hump because at first you get out there, you don't have I don't have to be out here on my bicycle, but I am. And you're going sometimes you're going, what am I doing out here? Why am I doing this? I could be sitting on my coach. But uh but once you get over a hump, there's a hump that I have to get over each time. Then I'm going. And in when I was at my friend's house in Jackson, Mississippi, and I look, and it's a thousand miles to Denver. All right, so what? Let's go. Thousand miles. So you know, there's no, oh, 50 miles a day, you know, it's gonna take me this amount of time. I never ever do that to myself, and that's what robs. Um might draw a parallel here that, but that's what robs our lives. I'm talking about a bicycle trip, and I won't do the math, and I won't do the all that. Well, we do that all the time in our lives, we're always doing it. It's our egos running the show, and so I don't let my ego run the show. It's I don't know, does that make sense? No, it does, it does. Because most of us, and I did it, I did it for a long time. And you know, stimulus react, stimulus react. Nothing's ever with a clear slate to look to look at things. And ooh, I noticed that sometimes you talk to people about ask about their aha moment. I'm gonna volunteer one.

SPEAKER_03 26:31

When I was in my favorite.

SPEAKER_01 26:35

What?

SPEAKER_03 26:36

I said we didn't get there yet, but go ahead. Tell me your.

SPEAKER_01 26:40

Well, I'm gonna give you a good one because it fits in right here.

SPEAKER_03 26:44

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 26:46

When I was in my late 20s

The Book That Sparked Non-Duality

SPEAKER_01 26:49

and had, you know, had that rough childhood, and I'm bouncing around and bouncing like a pinball, like we usually do. And uh a guy handed me a book called Think on These Things by J. Krishna Murdy. And I read that book and it rocked, it rocked my foundation loose because I had what I would call a normal foundation, which is that egoic propeller that you plan, you try to plan things, and you're disappointed when it doesn't work out, and you know, all of that suffering that we cause ourselves. And so that book was my first exposure to something called non-duality, non-dualism, and it and and it set me loose. It set me like, I'm like, what's going on here? Because I was always trying to figure out what is this all about? What are we doing? And it is there's you know, I didn't find any help for myself in any religions. I looked at religions, I looked at philosophy. I read too much philosophy, but that rocked me, and so it set me on the path that I am extremely grateful to be on now, where I do not torture myself over stuff. Do I make mistakes? Oh, sure. Just ask my wife, but yeah, we torture ourselves and we don't have to, and so that's what got me to Seattle. And I a little bit never expected to make it. I'm just pointing at Seattle. So the whole trip is like that. The whole trip is okay, I was gonna go down this road, but now the wind's 20 miles an hour in my face, so now I gotta face another direction if I'm gonna keep going today, that kind of thing. So, no plan. No plan.

SPEAKER_03 29:01

Okay. Now, non-dualism, would you say that's almost you're an observer kind of of your life?

SPEAKER_01 29:14

Oh, that's a cool question. Because absolutely that's the case if you go to the consciousness instead of looking at what the mind's doing, because our minds run us until we don't let them anymore, and then life becomes way, way better. But we're not Krishna Murti is some obscure Indian guy. You don't even see it in philosophy, hardly. Actually, I see it now more um in certain philosophers, but yeah, it's uh it's an approach to life where you let go, you just let go. Honestly, you let go.

SPEAKER_03 30:05

What did you say the name of that book was again? I'm sorry for interrupting, but what did you say the name of that book?

SPEAKER_01 30:10

Well, it's Think on These Things is the title of the book, and it's by Jake, just the J, Krishna Murdy. He's dead, he's gone, and he wrote a he wrote a bunch of books, and I read some of them. But the thing is, what I realized later in life is he is was leading me to non-dualism, and there's lots of non-dual teachers. And Tole, Eckhart Tole is one in spades, he's amazing, but he is teaching non-duality without ever saying that, which is good on him because it sounds woo-woo. Michael Singer. I don't know if you've heard of Michael Singer, yeah. He does uh podcast, uh a lady that goes by the name of uh the moniker Gongji, um, but Rupert Spira, I can name him now. In fact, a Catholic priest, Anthony DeMello, very awesome. If you've got some of that Catholicism in you, then Anthony De Mello is awesome. And he'll never say non-duality, but he's teaching it. He's telling us how to live our lives without all that junk that the ego throws at us.

SPEAKER_03 31:41

So you said you discovered this book in your late 20s. How did this shift your life, if it did, when you first read it?

SPEAKER_01 31:52

Well, I thought I was it just it set me on edge. It points out immediately that the way you're looking at the world is creating problems for you. And I just thought I'm just existing, looking at the world, doing what everybody else is doing. But Krishna Murdy's he's saying, no, you're looking at the world through a mask, which is your honestly, it's your ego. And that's what we see the world through a filter of our own making, although we don't know that. You know, it's I would tend to think my behaviors were whatever they were, when and that's the way I am, and it's a mistake, but we're not taught that when we're hardly ever. And a lot of people they go into meditation, and I'm not saying that meditation isn't great. I never meditate, I never have. I would I went to a Buddhist uh a Zen center every Sunday. When I lived in California, I'd go to the Zen center on Sundays for like church, but I couldn't ever, I'm not a meditator. So um, but the point of meditating is to give your mind, give that ego mind that break so that you can see with a clearer lens.

SPEAKER_03 33:42

Now you say you're not a meditator.

SPEAKER_01 33:46

No.

SPEAKER_03 33:47

What do you consider meditating?

SPEAKER_01 33:50

Well, when you sit down on your mat and uh you know try to clear your mind, and you might posture or something like that, and I and I am definitely not against it. I just don't do it. And

Meditation Myths And Real Stillness

SPEAKER_01 34:10

that there's a point that you can get to, and I've certainly gotten there with with more or less without meditating, but a perfectly blank your mind. Oh gosh, I wasn't gonna go there because there's something that when you get when you let go of everything, so I I'm all about letting go, but let go of everything. I mean, absolutely let go of everything, let go of everything that you think about. You know, in your mind, you let go of everything, you let go of your past, your future, you let go, and then you you even let go of letting go. It's that much of a let go. And what I've decided is you come to pure consciousness and you experience pure consciousness, and frankly, it's joyful, it's peaceful, it's joyful, it's joy. So that really helped me when I managed that because it's experiential and it's not describable. And I like to, I just told you my little story about letting go, but I'm really good at letting go. So uh now, do I get angry? Uh of course, sometimes drop something on my foot. Try not to get angry at people. One of the things about traveling cross-country on a bike, and I was alone 77 days. It took me 77 days to get to Port Townsend, Washington, and I was basically alone, but I run into people all the time, love talking to them. I was always up because I'm not suffering, I'm up, and this is yeah, I just got in a downpour back there, you know, and I didn't have my raincoat on and so forth. Stuff happens, and but I don't know. I'm up most of the time now. I have a very uh I'm at least at equanimity. Now, there's a great word because equanimity is you're not getting upset about stuff. It's you're taking life straight on without your expectations. That's part of the problem, too. Oh, I gotta get I gotta get 15 miles a day, you know, and blah blah blah blah blah. No, can you imagine traveling it existing like that even for two months? You're just like, okay, I'm out of water, I guess I gotta get water. But it's an amazing letting go. And one of the things that I would do prior to taking this trip is when I'm so I spend a lot of time on my bike, but when I'm biking, if a leaf falls, that's my indicator to look at what I'm thinking right now. Because we just go about our minds often repeating themselves constantly and stuff like that, and we never look. But that is uh that's almost a meditative practice. You know, I see a leaf fall. What's my mind doing? Because you can find you're grinding on something or uh anything, but most of the time we don't know because we don't look.

SPEAKER_03 37:56

I get what you're saying. Have you heard of a man named David G?

SPEAKER_01 38:02

No.

SPEAKER_03 38:03

So he's recognized as for like stress management, he's a meditation teacher, very wise man, and he's the first individual that I actually was able to get into any sort of meditation through. And now I facilitate breath work, but literally six years ago, I didn't meditate. I considered myself as someone who quote unquote couldn't meditate, but he said something that really, really stuck with me. And I'm still sharing it with anyone who will listen to me share it six years later. But three things, three things can happen when you meditate, okay? You can have thoughts, you can experience stillness, or you can fall asleep. No, he means that truly meditation. So many people think it's like you're clearing all your thoughts, you're sitting like Buddha cross-legged. It doesn't have to be that. It could be a much simpler thing. You could still have thoughts and be meditating. I'm just saying.

SPEAKER_01 39:11

No, no, no, that's that's very true. Because I would call it then you're doing meditation instead of uh being meditation, which I think is an important distinction, but it's it sounds I'm sure it sounds woo-woo. But yeah, doing meditation won't help you, but when you get to where you're being, oh, that really helps. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 39:40

So I get it. I get it. But you don't have to remove the thoughts, you know?

SPEAKER_01 39:47

No, no, no, no. I mean, it's really it's almost futile.

SPEAKER_03 39:52

But what's almost futile?

SPEAKER_01 39:55

Removing the thoughts. For most of us, most of the time, the thoughts are not just there, they're running our lives, and that doesn't have to happen. So, yeah, it's that's cool.

SPEAKER_03 40:10

That's true. So, are you got any biking trips coming up?

SPEAKER_01 40:15

No, I can't anymore. I because of my polio, and so I've lived my whole life, so I have some scoliosis, you know, and so I got back pain all the time, except when I'm riding the bike, which is funny. But but I can't push off a loaded bike with my left leg anymore. And I just I actually so I was I've done some cross-country trips, but I was gonna cross the whole country one more time two years ago, and I just couldn't do it.

Triggers That Expose Your Thoughts

SPEAKER_01 40:53

I made it 450 miles, but I just I was just like, though, that it's difficult enough that it's not fun anymore. You know, so I'm locally riding now.

SPEAKER_04 41:10

But yeah, it's uh it's time, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 41:18

Please, if it sounded like I was complaining, I'm absolutely not. Because that's another thing that you know people complain a lot, and that never helps. But if you're complaining, that's when you need to look at your ego and go, okay, why? Actually, the the why question is an awesome question. Why do I want this? Not oh, because it tasted so good last time, but why do I actually want it? Why do I want this new car? Why can't I get by with whatever else? The thing is, fine, have whatever you want to eat, drive whatever you want to drive, but don't hinge your identity on it, because then you're more likely making people miserable about it, rather than just enjoy your life. That's what I always tell everybody. Hey, look, enjoy your life. You might not really actually know what that means, but it's there, it's available, it's in the doing, it's in the rhythm of it, it's built into the rhythm of it.

SPEAKER_03 42:32

Does that sound too no, but now I want to down a different little hole now that we're chatting about identities. I have a question, and I ask every guest who has written a book this did you always, or for a long time, think you would write a book about something?

SPEAKER_01 42:54

Well, a long time ago, I tried to write some fiction, and but you know, that ended

Writing The Road Spoke

SPEAKER_01 43:00

up in a drawer. And so, no, I mean, and that was a long time ago. But here's something that was interesting about that period, though. So I was struggling with what one of my characters was gonna do, and I was trying to force this character into an interesting to do an interesting situation, and I couldn't make it work, and I this is so beautiful. So I stop and I go, all right, I don't know what this character's gonna do. What's it gonna do? So I let go of trying to control it, it was incredible, and then you were just able to write the onrush of creativity just by letting go. There's that word again, that phrase. But even way back then, I mean, I had already read Krishna Burdi and was walking down, stumbling down that path and uh reading all kinds of philosophy, but I settled on that non dualism. Oh, and one of the things that you see, what I describe, my little woo woo situation where you let go of everything, and now your mind is not doing. Anything and you see oneness. You see oneness like it's slapping you across the face. Where most people go, well, there's there's no such thing as oneness. Oh no, no, no. There's only oneness. What we're doing is dividing the world up constantly into little bite-sized bits. And that's not the way the world is. You'll never air this. Yes, I will.

SPEAKER_03 44:52

Everything is all interconnected. I agree with that. Now I have a question for you again. You take your big trip all the way across. When do you decide I'm gonna write a book about this?

SPEAKER_01 45:08

Oh, that's right. That was your original question. I'm glad you came back to it. So went to Seattle, then went up to Alaska and visited around, came back, and I have a very good, very longtime friend here. And he said, How did you do it? He said, How does a 69-year-old polio survivor, diabetic, make a trip all the way across the country while the rest of us are sitting on our couches? And I thought about that and I thought, well, I guess I'm gonna write a book. And frankly, it didn't take me very long at all. It took me a long time to get it published because I, well, it's expensive. But the thing was, this attitude, this woo-woo attitude that I'm discussing right now is how a 69-year-old polio survivor diabetic gets across the country. You do not let your mind get in your way. Now, I didn't have to make it though. I didn't, I honestly, every step of the way, I kind of okay that I've got this far. You know, I I didn't have the goal. I had a goal, but I never took it seriously, ever. Ever. And I always I talk to bike groups sometimes, and I go, the goal gets in your way, you know, have the goal, but let go of it. And it and then you'll enjoy the ride. That's why when I was in uh Mississippi, and I go, oh, Denver a thousand miles. So what? You know? All right, a thousand miles, let's go. So so what I I've made up these little bookmarks for my book that I hand people out that that says the what does it say? It says the best thing is to get out of your own way. The very best thing in life to do is to get out of your own way.

SPEAKER_03 47:33

I want a bookmog, Ken.

SPEAKER_01 47:36

I'll send you one.

SPEAKER_03 47:39

I'll buy it from you. I'm serious. I want a book mog.

SPEAKER_01 47:45

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 47:46

I do.

SPEAKER_01 47:48

All right.

SPEAKER_03 47:49

I love that.

SPEAKER_01 47:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 47:51

Take it out of your own way.

SPEAKER_01 47:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 47:54

It makes so much sense. I agree with everything you were saying about the goals. It's good to have them, I think, but it's so easy to get attached to them.

SPEAKER_01 48:03

Exactly. Yeah. Sure, make a goal, but don't take it seriously and aim for it. But most things in my life, I don't get where I'm trying to go. And you gotta be able to go, oh shoot. Well, that didn't work. But shit happens.

SPEAKER_03 48:23

Shit happens. It does.

SPEAKER_01 48:27

It does. Enjoy it. That's what I say.

SPEAKER_03 48:32

I have a question, and you might not even remember the answer fully to this. But before you read that book, do you think you had, or do you remember that you had a similar type of mindset to what you have?

SPEAKER_01 48:49

Well, that's a cool question. And yeah, it was a long time ago, but I just what I remember is that it made me look at myself differently. After reading that, I'm sure it was the first time that I had a better look at myself. You know, not without me looking at me. Hey, what about these concepts that we exist in? What is it like if you don't? And so, yeah, I would say I got a better look at myself. But the problem for me, it was over a long period of time, you know, because like I I just mentioned all those other people that I've encountered and listened to, and that that seeing of the oneness is experiential. You cannot think your way into it, you'll never be able to. It's with it's when thought has stopped. And so, and most people they don't even know they they can't even guess what that might even mean. One of the things I know you do this breath work, and I think breath work is miraculous because for a lot of people, paying attention to your breath might be the very first time they've stopped listening to their mind, and that can only go well, and then you build on that. No, that's beautiful, that's beautiful, and I I appreciate that you're doing that. I mean, you can it I can see why it works.

SPEAKER_03 50:42

Thank you. And now uh we've talked a lot about stories and identities, and I think everything in life is a story, but we've talked a little bit about identities, and before we hopped on recruiting, we were talking a little bit about you being an author and you not identifying yourself or considering yourself an author. You consider

Author Identity Without Ego

SPEAKER_03 51:08

yourself someone who's written a book. What's the difference to you?

SPEAKER_01 51:14

Yeah, okay. Well, honestly, that's I don't aggrandize myself either.

SPEAKER_03 51:22

And to me, to say what is aggrandize, I don't know what that means.

SPEAKER_01 51:26

I don't make a big deal about myself. In fact, when I arrived at my goal in Port Townsend, Washington.

SPEAKER_03 51:36

You didn't acknowledge that you hit the goal. Ken, you have to acknowledge it in some retrospect.

SPEAKER_01 51:44

No, so you know, of course, I mean, I actually got interviewed by the newspaper there and stuff like that. People thought it was pretty cool, and but I just what I know is it's grace. And I made it across the country. I just got on my bike every day and I made it. I do, I can't do it, I can't do it anymore. I mean, the ego is really what makes you do that, and I think I've let go enough that no, and I'm an author. Oh, if I say, Oh, yeah, I'm an author, it sounds pretentious to you.

SPEAKER_03 52:23

It sounds pretentious to you, yes.

SPEAKER_01 52:26

So, yeah, it's different, but I enjoy my life way more now than I did for most of it because let go.

SPEAKER_03 52:40

You think celebrating in any aspect like a goal of something you've did is is just ego.

SPEAKER_01 52:47

Well, um, okay, yes, one hundred percent. But we all have them. I haven't mine isn't gone. I'm actually talking to you. You need your ego to make conversation. You we do that kind of thing, but uh I'm not biblical at all. But the Bible says pride goes before the fall, there's not a truer true, and so you get prideful, you it it ruins everything.

SPEAKER_03 53:24

I feel like prideful is different than acknowledgement, you know.

SPEAKER_01 53:29

Well, okay, so fair enough.

SPEAKER_03 53:32

Maybe you're not super prideful, but even like a little okay, I did this. So many people in the world can't or never even took an attempt to do it.

SPEAKER_01 53:40

Like, instead of just passing over it and doing the next thing, like well, so right, I'm not just passing over it and doing the next thing. Heck, I'm on Mandar's mindset. And then maybe somebody'll buy my book. The road spoke, by the way. I don't even have a copy of it around here.

SPEAKER_03 54:09

Do you get what I'm saying in terms of like maybe if it's not even celebrating, but like acknowledging that you did whatever the goal was and have you achieved it? Little pat on the back, no?

SPEAKER_01 54:26

Like, Kenya did it, and then you no, no, no, you honestly. We went to the brewery when I got to Port Townsend. We went to the brewery when you got to Whale to Port Townsend, Washington is where I ended that.

SPEAKER_03 54:42

Do you consider the brewery you like celebrating a little bit? Yeah, okay. Okay, great, great, Ken. We're on the same page. This is great. This is great. I don't mean being like prideful, but like acknowledging, like, you said you wanted to do something, even if you don't consider that a quote unquote goal, but you said you wanted to do X, and you did X. Like a lot of us don't even take the time to be like, okay, great, I actually did this, and they you just keep it moving. Like, take a breath and acknowledge that you did something you said you wanted and were gonna do. Like, good job, Ken. Yeah, you don't agree with me, and that's okay. You can say that you don't agree, you are like holding your breath trying to not disagree.

SPEAKER_01 55:34

I can see it, Ken.

SPEAKER_03 55:35

I'm looking at the I can see it.

SPEAKER_01 55:38

Well, so you're not exactly grasping my mindset, but yeah, I am now. I am. If I'm famous for anything, it's that I rode my bike across the country at 69 years old with my infirmities. You know, that's what makes me special, my infirmities, and so that and that was years ago. I mean, now what? Yeah, well, I better go on Manders Mindset, but no, it's it has provided me this opportunity, and I'm grateful. Honestly, it's fun. No, I we let too much get in our way.

SPEAKER_03 56:25

I agree completely, but I think there's also a lot of negative, so many people are so negative that there's so many different things in the world that they want to do, they do it and they don't even acknowledge you don't have to throw a fucking party, but like even acknowledging it to yourself. Oh damn, you know, we're all so naked. We have this goal, and even if we get attached to it, but we don't even take two minutes to take a breath and be like, damn, good job.

SPEAKER_01 56:54

Well, I'm relentlessly positive.

SPEAKER_03 56:58

And you're telling yourself, good job.

SPEAKER_01 57:02

Uh all I can say is I did it, and I'm thankful. That's what I am. I'm thankful. Honestly, I'm thankful. And stuff goes wrong. You can even be thankful about stuff going wrong because that is what's improving you to get past stuff. That's your opportunity. So, and there's lots of opportunities on a 3,700-mile bike trip.

SPEAKER_03 57:32

That is true. Are you glad you took the trip alone?

SPEAKER_01 57:36

Yes, I am, because I mean, I actually I have no idea what it's like to ride with anybody else. And can they keep up? Can I keep up? And okay, so that was a freedom traveling by myself, that I didn't have somebody else's stuff to deal with. I only had my own, and I don't throw stuff at me. So yeah, oh, but here's the thing, also, oh, this is important, Amanda. 77 days alone. Not that I didn't stop and talk to people all along the way, had awesome times talking to people, love people, but alone is not lonely, and this is integral. Alone is a situation, and lonely is a state of mind, and I don't do that to myself. That's

Alone Is Not Lonely

SPEAKER_01 58:33

one of those things I don't do to myself, so you know, if if you're lonely, I would say you're doing it wrong. Because you can be with people, but the loneliness, rethink it. But then, you know, I've been biking and camping out, and then I run into somebody and I'm effervescent, always glad to see people, and so it was no, it was it was awesome. And if I had to suffer some nights, you know, in like foul weather, well, I don't I haven't drug somebody with me. So kind of know. That's true.

SPEAKER_03 59:19

That's true. But you look at suffering in a different light.

SPEAKER_01 59:24

I do.

SPEAKER_03 59:26

You don't think you do?

SPEAKER_01 59:28

Yes, because we I think everybody else thinks of suffering in a different light. Yeah, because we create most of our own suffering. I agree. I hate to throw a percentage at it, but it's probably in the high nineties. And so stop it.

SPEAKER_03 59:50

How we look at things and create it a hundred percent. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 59:56

Yes. So I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:01

Oh my gosh. I get what you mean. Now you don't consider you wouldn't con would you? Let me ask this instead of assuming. Would you consider any of your your biking experience, either one of the two, any suffering?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:19

Well, there's plenty of incidents that don't go well. But suffering, I think of suffering as more of what the mental thing that we do to ourselves. I got rained out of my tent one night. I mean, everything was soaked, and I'm laying there in the morning in a bag of wet feathers because a little rivulet came right through my tent and it wasn't repelling water like it used to. And so is that suffering? But I had tightly packed in a plastic Ziploc bag an outfit that I could put on that was dry, and I went down to the restaurant that was nearby and had a great time. I just walked away from my camp and kind of a little bit hoped that maybe somebody would steal everything, and then I could end this damn trip. But so was I suffering?

SPEAKER_03 1:01:22

Well, that's a negative comment, so you could end the trip.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:27

I know, but I'm joking, honestly, because I after I talked to a bunch of people, they were offering me to drive my stuff, but they didn't have electricity at their house, you know, and stuff. And so I had to ride like 13 miles, I had to pack all this heavy wet gear and then ride 13 miles to a laundry man so I could dry everything. But there you go, that's just the way it unfolded, and any negativity that I throw on that is mine, it's mine, 100% mine. Don't do it, you don't have to. I can tell the story, you know. I can tell stories of where stuff really shit hit the fan, but it's just a little slice of life back there somewhere. No, and right now is all there is. Eckhart Tolle says that a million times, but right now is all there is, and if you live there, it sets you free.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:37

It's true. The past is already gone and the future hasn't arrived.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:42

And it will be what it will be, and it's really not in our control. We love to think it is, but no, I don't think it is. Oh, but can I talk about my book for a minute? I wish I had a copy here.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:58

Absolutely can.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:00

So uh a lady the other day said that she thought it was a perfect book club book because it tells a story, and I actually include some pretty fun from my world travels incidences, but it tells a

Why The Book Works For Clubs

SPEAKER_01 1:03:24

story and it crosses the United States, and she said most people could relate to someplace on that route because it's the whole diagonal across the whole United States. But she also said, and I this was cool for me, that the the thread that runs through it about non-dualism and about how not to suffer and stuff like that. I worked slowly through it, and she said it was very digestible. You know, I wasn't I didn't throw a lot of woo-woo. I just told the story of how these incidences could come up and how you don't have to suffer with. So that was fun, and it's well reviewed on Amazon. So everybody, the road spoke.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:14

Would you say it's an easy read?

SPEAKER_01 1:04:17

Yes. That's one of the comments. Well, that's why I think she said that about the book club, because it's not it doesn't bog, you know, it doesn't bog you down with philosophy. It's it's experiences along the way and so forth. So, no, no, no. It's a it they actually say that I've gotten good reviews, I'm happy for it. Can I say that? Uh, I'm not ecstatic. I'm just oh good, people like this book. But they um oh, I forgot what I was gonna say.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:52

They reviewed it well, they're happy.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:54

It was well reviewed, yes. And one of the comments it's made a number of times is it's easy to read. And I'm like, ooh, how easy.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:03

No, that's a good thing. I think that's a good thing. Like, honestly, because even more so in 2026, people's attention spans, and if it's too difficult of a read, like you want to learn something, but if they feel like it's a difficult read, people won't finish the book. I have had so many conversations with people in my personal life that they're like, uh, it was kind of a difficult book. Then I was like, Oh, well, how'd it go? I didn't finish it. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:30

Put this out to all your friends and test them on it.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:33

I will. The vote smoke. No doubt. Do you see yourself writing another book?

SPEAKER_01 1:05:41

Oh gosh. I thought I learned my lesson, but yes, I do. I just recently I mean, I'm like, no way, no way, no way. And now I'm like, maybe.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:56

Any idea what it would be about?

SPEAKER_01 1:05:58

Yes, it would be about it would be another gentle approach to non duality. Because I I think it's the only way. The it's the only path to happiness. Letting go. Here's a funny, here's a little teeny thing. You know, when you want something. And then you get it. Let's say a piece of cake, you know, I want a piece of cake. And then you eat that cake and you go, wow, that was good. Do you desire it anymore? No, you let go because you got it. Unfortunately, we keep thinking the lesson that we keep learning, that I kept learning, is that, oh, you get something, go for more, or do it again. Or, you know, there's this push that you do to yourself. And that's why I always say on to bike journeys, let go of that goal, let go of it, and you'll be happy. Then you're just left with the ride, and it's awesome. But if you're going, oh, I need to make another eight miles, or I'm not making my 60, that is an approach. I don't recommend it. But we do, we accomplish stuff. Look at you with making this podcast happen. And you're like, aren't you like 200 episodes? There's perseverance there, and I'm hoping you enjoy it. And you know what I mean? You we do stuff, but we I think you realize you don't have to, you just enjoy it. So do it. Now that doesn't go for everything, obviously. Don't harm other people. In fact, I would say that so one of the sayings that I heard a lot in my earlier days was when somebody did something crazy, they didn't shoot up schools back then, but people do crazy stuff and they go, Wow, they were out of their mind. No, 100% opposite, they're stuck in their mind, and that repetitive I'm being done wrong, and I need to make the world right, and that repetitive thinking, that's mind that makes people do stuff like that. That's mine. So learn to live without it.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:40

That is true. I completely agree, Ken. I really enjoyed this.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:46

Me too.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:47

I hope that's true.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:48

Oh, it isn't completely true.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:52

Well, you said before we even started recording it was gonna be great, and I don't know if I trust your opinion now because you had that thought before we even recorded.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:03

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:05

Now I know you've heard of a man named Jay Shetty because you know the questions, as you've told me.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:12

I do, but I didn't write them out. Go ahead, hit me.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:17

So I end my podcast with two segments from Jay Shetty. He has a podcast called On Purpose. First segment is the many sides to us. There's five questions, and they need to be answered in one word each. What is one word someone who is meeting you for the first time would use to describe you as?

SPEAKER_01 1:09:40

Light.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:42

What is one word someone who

Rapid-Fire Advice And The Kindness Law

SPEAKER_03 1:09:45

knows you extremely well would use to describe you as?

SPEAKER_01 1:09:49

Other than my wife, you mean? Oh thoughtful.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:55

What is one word you'd use to describe yourself?

SPEAKER_01 1:09:59

Oh. Happy.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:03

What is one word that if someone didn't like you or agree with your mindset would use to describe you as an idiot? What is one word you're trying to embody right now?

SPEAKER_01 1:10:21

Presence.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:23

Second segment is the final five, and these can be answered in a sentence. What is the best advice you've heard overseas?

SPEAKER_01 1:10:34

Um probably that your mind tells you what to do, but you don't have to do it.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:43

Why is that the best?

SPEAKER_01 1:10:45

Because it's so true. And especially when when your mind is untamed, normal, ego centered. Yeah. You're not you don't have to utter that utterance. Isn't somebody on one of your um I think it was breathwork magic, but they said, take a deep breath before you answer. Oh, that's that's awesome advice right there.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:20

Did you just randomly remember that advice?

SPEAKER_01 1:11:22

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:24

Okay, I was just curious. What is the worst advice you've ever heard or receive?

SPEAKER_01 1:11:33

Yeah, I can't think of any any that's any worse than any other. The the one the kind that goes go for it, or especially go for it, you deserve it, or something like that.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:49

Why is that the worst?

SPEAKER_01 1:11:51

You know, you hear it in athletics a lot, and I think it's counterproductive.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:58

Why?

SPEAKER_01 1:12:01

Because there's a better, way better, way more relaxed approach to life, and you can still get to the same place. You can still you I'm sure if you're physically able, you'll get there. But you don't need to grind. You don't need to grind in your mind. Okay, so I'm not I'm not talking about physically, you just don't need to grind in your mind.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:29

What is something that you used to value that you no longer value?

SPEAKER_01 1:12:36

Oh, actually, oh, lots of things. Did I mention I'm not young anymore? Oh, I used to like to gamble. I don't care about it. I used to love to fish. Leave the fish alone.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:51

So that if you could describe what you would want your legacy to be, as if someone was reading it, what would you want it to say?

SPEAKER_01 1:13:02

I can't tell ya how much I don't care about it. And I mean it would to me it'd be wonderful. I some people have gotten benefit out of my book, and I've gotten to hear about that, and I'm happy. So, yeah, he wrote a book and I got some benefit out of it. I don't know. No, that's self-aggrandizement.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:28

If you could create one law in the world that everyone had to follow, what would it be? And I wanna know why.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:40

I bet you do. Well, a law. I would like to think of a good one, but I can't. So it's the it's against the law to not be kind. Be kind. Be kind to everybody and everything. Be kind. It's not that hard. Unless you're tied up in your ego, but never mind. We already covered that.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:10

Why would be kind be the one law you would create?

SPEAKER_01 1:14:14

Well, then we wouldn't be in such a mess. You know, I mean, things are messy. And if kindness comes first, they'll be a lot less messy.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:27

There'd be a lot I agree. There would be a lot less messy. I do agree. Well, thank you so much, Ken. I really, really enjoyed this.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:39

Well, me too.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:41

I hope you did. I hope you did. I really hope you did. Is there anything else you would like to share with the listeners before we close out? No pressure.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:56

So what worked for me, especially in the beginning, is pay attention to your thoughts. That might be a good law, too. But but I think I mentioned that I would want I would see a leaf fall and make that my trigger to look at what I'm thinking at that moment.

Watch Your Mind And Stop Judging

SPEAKER_01 1:15:23

And it brings it right into your face. You know, if you're thinking whatever you were thinking, and don't judge it. Because if you judge it, now you're right back into the mind. You know what I mean? You you got you step backwards, you were stepping forward, and then boom, you step backwards. Stop judging your those things, but find some way, even if it's a few times a day, to see what your mind is doing as though you're observing it from elsewhere because you are your consciousness.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:03

Find time to specifically observe it. I really liked your example of how you did it with the leap with the falling leaves.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:12

And biking, there's lots of them. So I've had a lot of practice. I mean, if you like put the key of the ignition before you start the card, look at your mind, because you're usually in a hurry, or find your triggers, but find some and do that. And then the next step is be constantly aware what you're thinking. But it we can't get there, you know, except for baby step to begin with, which was true for me.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:44

That's true. Find the triggers, even the obvious thing, you're putting the the key in the car. You probably people probably do that at least once a day. I like that suggestion, Ken. Thank you. I really do. Like in the book of life, so I appreciate that, and I appreciate you taking the time to speak with me tonight.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:05

And I appreciate you taking the time having me speak tonight.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:10

Absolutely, Ken. Absolutely. And thank you guys so much for tuning in to another episode of Mandu's Mindset.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:24

In case no one told you today, I'm proud of you. I'm voting for you. And you got this. As always, if you enjoyed the show, I would really appreciate it if you would leave me a five star rating. Leave a review, and share with

Closing Message And Review Request

SPEAKER_02 1:17:42

anyone you think would benefit from that. And don't forget, you are only one nine step shift away from shifting your light. Thanks guys, until next time.