Real Life Runners with Angie and Kevin Brown

416: Cracking the Code: Overcoming Emotional Eating with Holly Bertone

• Angie Brown

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In today’s episode, I’m joined by the incredible Holly Bertone — a former FBI Chief of Staff turned certified holistic health coach — who now helps midlife women break free from emotional eating and step into their power.

Holly shares her deeply personal journey, from leading high-stakes intelligence operations to uncovering the root causes of her own struggles with food. With a unique blend of counterintelligence tactics and brain science, she teaches how to identify emotional triggers, interrupt destructive patterns, and rewire your brain for long-term freedom — all without relying on willpower or restrictive diets.

Together, we dive into the lies we’ve been told by the diet industry, why food feels so emotionally loaded (hello, childhood conditioning and clean plate club!), and how to create lasting change through awareness, forgiveness, and self-compassion.

Holly also walks us through her signature 3-step process — See It, Stop It, Shift It — and shares a powerful tool to help you reclaim your relationship with food.

Whether emotional eating has been a quiet companion or a daily struggle, this episode will help you feel seen, understood, and empowered with tools that truly work.

🎁 PLUS: Don’t miss Holly’s free Emotional Eating Tactical Blueprint — available exclusively to our listeners!


 00:13 – Meet Holly: From FBI to holistic health coach
 02:00 – Her personal journey and struggles with food
 12:57 – Exposing the lies of the diet industry
 18:48 – Why we turn to food for comfort
 23:56 – Food, emotions, and celebrations
 26:18 – The Clean Plate Club and early conditioning
 27:08 – Holly’s 3-step process: See It, Stop It, Shift It
 36:48 – The power of rewriting your food story
 42:23 – How to get Holly’s Emotional Eating Blueprint


Ready to feel more in control and at peace with food? Let’s crack the code together.



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If you've ever struggled with emotional eating or figuring out why you just can't crack the code, why you keep going back to those same old eating patterns that you don't really want to do. Today's episode is for you. I am talking to Holly Bertone, who is a former FBI chief of staff for counterintelligence turned certified holistic health coach. After spending 20 years in high stakes government roles where she managed major operations and navigated intense pressure, Holly understands. What it's like to battle your own food monsters and deal with emotional eating. And she realized that cracking the code on her emotional eating was the same thing as tracking spies, identifying the pattern, and then neutralizing the threat. And so now she takes all of her knowledge and experience in that. World of FBI counterintelligence and applies it to eating and helping high achieving midlife. Women break free from emotional eating, rebel against diet culture, and prioritize their health. Without relying on restrictive diets or willpower through her science-backed approach. She's been featured on major platforms and top podcasts, including this one, and I'm so excited to introduce you to Holly today. You are gonna gain so much from this conversation, so let's jump in.

Angie:

All right, everyone, welcome to the show today. I am so excited to have Holly Bertone on the show. What's up, Holly? How are you? Hey Angie. Thanks so much for having me on the show, and I'm so excited to be here. I am super excited for our conversation today. Holly has a very unique story and I'm gonna let her tell it to you. So Holly, tell us who you are and

Holly:

who do you help. Yeah, absolutely. So I'm Holly Bertone and I help women in midlife break free from emotional eating so that they can achieve a healthy and sustainable weight without the count, counting the calories and without the crazy diets. I. That

Angie:

sounds perfect. Let's talk more about that. So emotional eating is one of these topics that I think people know about but don't really understand. So I'm excited to dig into that a little bit further with you. But I know you have a very interesting story of like how you got to this place. So can you give us a little background of like how, why are you a health coach now? What did you do before this?

Holly:

Yeah, absolutely. And before I get into my story, I really just wanna say, Angie, how much I love your podcast. Aw, thanks.'cause I, so I used to be a competitive triathlete, so my running was a means to an end. I didn't run because I loved it. I run, I ran because. Of, I wanted to do another race and same with field hockey. So it's been 15 years and I am just now getting back into running after a long hiatus. Now I would sprint,'cause sprint's, obviously. So good for your metabolic health. Yeah, but I just didn't run. I was like, I can walk. I don't need to run. I am getting back into running and I love this resource and I love how it's just, it's for normal women. I feel like I fit in. Like I, I know there's a lot of, resources out there, and I just feel as just a normal midlife woman who's getting back into running, who's getting ready to run her first 5K in. 15 years, like this is such a valuable resource. So I just wanted to say thank you for having this resource for everyone and to all of your listeners because of that, because of this resource, because of how excited I am to be on this show and. for the resource that Angie has for all of you, I would love for you to give her a five store rating and review, because that is gonna help this podcast reach so many more people. It would mean a lot to me as a guest, and I left a rating and review this morning, and I just really want your listeners to, to be able to do that too.

Angie:

thank you for that plug. That was wonderful then, and completely unexpected. So I'm, I love to hear,'cause some of the guests that come on don't always, aren't regular listeners to the podcast and so to know that you listen and have gained value from it means the world to me.'cause that's the whole goal of why I do this. Yeah,

Holly:

so anyway, so let me jump in. you talked about first from the perspective of emotional eating and what is it, and, and someone listening, they may have said to yourself at one point, like, how is it that I could be smart and successful and high achieving and, healthy, like I'm a runner and, being that woman in midlife who does it all because of the things like the habits and the discipline. But those same strategies don't work when it comes to either losing weight Or having these, just this constant uncontrollable food noise. And it ends up becoming these obsessive cravings and just the snacking that's mindless. Like you start and you just lose track of time. You don't even know that you've finished. and the reason that I'm doing this is because I'm a recovered emotional eater of over 40 years. I, I was an emotional eater when I was 150 pounds. When I was overweight. I was an emotional eater at 110 pounds when I was a competitive triathlete. And I literally would eat my emotions on a daily basis. And my goal is to really just break that stigma. I.

Speaker 3:

Yeah.

Holly:

That it doesn't matter your weight, it doesn't matter how quote unquote healthy you are. if that, that, that food noise, if it's there, let's have this conversation. let's, this is, I think where menopause was 10 or 15 years ago, is having this conversation around emotional eating.

Speaker 3:

Yeah.

Holly:

and I'll give you a perfect example of this. so I used to work at the FBI and when I was there, I would dump a family sized bag of m and ms. On the desk and, protein of course.'cause we gotta get our protein in, the peanut m and ms for the protein peanut m ms, the peanut m and ms for the protein. And so I would speed eat the m and ms with my left hand and I would crank out the PowerPoint deck with my right hand. So I am literally working as fast as I can and eating as fast as I can. But then fast forward, and this is really where things came to a head. I had already resigned. I resigned from the FBI in 2017 or so. And I had already become a health coach, and every Thursday I would start obsessing about Friday afternoon because as a health coach, I was disciplined all week long, ate super healthy, and then I would treat myself on the weekend. someone listening may have think, maybe thinking oh yeah, I've been, pulled in a million Drexels with the career and family and comfort food is just that one place where it's quiet. I'm gonna reward myself for a hard day at work, or I'm gonna reward myself for going on a long run. my reward, so I'm a Pennsylvania girl and my reward was salted caramel ice cream. I just, I love the sweet, salty combination. What I told myself on Thursday or on Friday, I was like, I'm gonna divide it into thirds. So I would have a third of the pint on Friday, a third on Saturday, a third on Sunday. In my head, that's how it went down, because we're told everything in moderation. I would put my spoon in the container. This happened every single weekend. You think I know better. So I put my spoon in the container and savor the first bite, savor the second bite, the whole mindful eating thing. And then. The container. So that was every Friday. And then what I would do on Saturday is I would get another pint, eat the other pint. I get another pint on Sunday eat. So it was a pint on Friday, pint on Saturday, pint on Sunday. Every weekend it was the same thing. And then I go back to eating healthy on Monday, but there was this one Sunday and I'm finishing that third pint of ice cream that thir three pints of one weekend. And, my spoon is in that groove trying to get that last little bit of ice cream and chocolate. So this Sunday my spoon was at. The bottom of the container and it was in that groove in the bottom of the container trying to get that last little bit of ice cream and chocolate out. And I'm staring at the bottom of another pint of ice cream on another sundae. And I was like, Holly Bartone, what are you? Doing, like, why can't you just eat like a normal person? Why do you have to inhale the entire thing? And I don't even remember eating it. I just inhaled it and I'm like, I was literally scraping the bottom because I just wanted more. And I felt this shame that was just suffocating because I a health coach and I should know better. I didn't wanna face that truth because I kept justifying it. I'm a healthy weight. I worked all hard all week. I, I was super disciplined with how I ate and, you might have thinking like, I don't know, maybe there's been a time in your life where you're just putting on these appearances. You've got it all together on the outside, but behind closed doors, like I was this hotness express and I didn't want anyone to find out. I didn't want anyone to know my secret. Angie, I went upstairs, I went to my walk-in closet and I just did a 360 and I looked at all my clothes. I love my clothes, and I was like, I'm not wearing most of them, because they were just a little bit too small. Not to the point where I needed to get a different size, but they were just tight and uncomfortable. Yeah. And I was remembering back to what it was like when I was 40 pounds overweight. When I hated how I looked, and even back to when I was going through breast cancer and autoimmune disease and how much those diseases, like what damage they did to my body. And I vowed that I am not gonna go back to that place again. That this food has way too much control over me. And I made a decision that something needs to change. And it was difficult to. Have that conversation with myself to say, okay, it doesn't matter that I'm a healthy weight or how much I weigh, like I am struggling with emotional eating. And I realize like when that, when you have that emotional eating, like that food noise is always gonna win. And I realize it wasn't just me that there's so many women in midlife. Who are battling the same and they're, they've got these, demanding jobs and careers and then this lifestyle and all of the stress, and then they're reaching for the food and then they've got this shame and that's when I just, I put the FBI pat back on and I was like, I am going to investigate this. And I uncovered what the weight loss industry doesn't want us to know. And because they want us to think that it's all about the calories and the cardio and the weight and the food. It's actually about addressing those root cause triggers, those automatic eating patterns, because that is what's driving our behavior. That's what's driving the everything. these patterns control everything. So in order for things to change, we actually need to rewire those patterns to work in our favor. And when I realized that, that's when everything changed, not just for me, but for the women who I coach. And I think it's important too, to say that. I have the pieces of paper on the wall that say I'm certified to coach, but the way that I coach, the way that I, you know, share and sharing today with you and your audience, everything was built from those food monsters that I overcame personally. Combined with my skills in FBI counterintelligence the analyzing the patterns and countering the threats, and then combining that with the brain science of neuroplasticity, and that's when we strike gold.

Angie:

Yeah, absolutely. And I couldn't agree more with everything that you just talked about. I know that I also have gone through my own eating journey, of, I wouldn't ever say that I had an eating disorder, but I definitely have had disordered eating patterns in the past. And I think that a lot of us in health and fitness, whether you're a coach or not, if you are a woman that is concerned about your health. A lot of women have disordered eating and don't even realize it because the messages out there are so mixed. We are constantly. Confused because that is what the diet industry wants, right? They want us to be confused. They want us to think we just haven't found the solution yet, or we just haven't found the right diet yet, or, all these lies that we are fed. And I would love to go into a little bit more. Of that, of, you said that you really uncovered a lot of these lies. What are some of the most common lies that you think that we are encountered with on a daily basis

Holly:

as women? Oh my goodness. Yeah, that is such a great question. And when you're talking about the diet industry, I'd love to throw out a few facts and then I'll get into the lies. Is that, The diet industry in the United States alone is somewhere between 70 and$90 billion a year.

Angie:

That's with a B?

Holly:

With a B. Billion. Billion. Yeah. And I actually, I've seen other statistics that one's a little bit conservative, believe it or not. Exactly. It's a little bit low, and two thirds of women age 40 to 60 are clinically overweight. Diets have a 92% failure rate, This is an industry that wants us to fail. Yeah. So the question is, why do they want us to fail? What are these, you talk about the lies, like what are the lies that are, that we're fed and then what are the 8% doing differently That, that are getting them to succeed. And I like to think of, I like to think of, how we traditionally view diets. As the check the self-checkout line at the grocery store. Because you wanna get in and out. You want that quick fix and that's what we've been fed.

Speaker 3:

Yeah.

Holly:

And you've got one line in the regular. the regular checkout that's open, there's five or six people you know, and you're going in and you're like scan. And then the next thing is like unexpected item in bagging area. you got the little light going and you know you're looking for the lady and a team member is on his way. A team member. Yeah, exactly. And then she goes to the person beside you and you're like, wait a second, my light was flashing first. And then what makes it worse is that I don't, and I don't know if you've ever done this before. Maybe it's just me, maybe I'm just a little competitive. But, you know how when you're in line and then you've got the people in the regular checkout line and you like eyeing them up, say, okay, who is parallel to me? And you're like, I'm gonna beat them out the store, right? Yeah. This is okay. and then the next thing you know, like that person is. Leaving the store and you're still there, bagging your groceries. You're like, oh, this, that is exactly what diet industry is doing to us. Okay. it's causing us to look at this from a quick fix to be competitive with everyone else, and then just feel like, oh, what did I do wrong? Yeah. it's our fault, or something like that.

Speaker 3:

Yeah.

Holly:

but the three, three of really the lies that we are told, and I'm gonna lump all of them into one. Okay. Is the everything a moderation. The mindful eating or intuitive eating, and then the willpower. I just need willpower and I wanna caveat it before everyone comes at me, which, whatever. I wanna caveat,

Angie:

I'm like, you're like, I've, I'm in the, I've been in the FBII can take it. Come on, let's go. Bring it on.

Holly:

Yeah. let's tango. Yeah. So I will say they do work. Okay. And I actually. Incorporate them. Okay. Personally, but think about it from this perspective. If you struggle with emotional eating Have any of these ever worked in the past? And the answer is probably no. And that's what I want us to really think about and get past is, okay, these work on the other side. They're not going to work if you are struggling with that food noise. and I can explain why.

Speaker 3:

Yeah.

Holly:

So we think of willpower. That's the biggest one, because we think, oh, I just need to be strong. And it's mind over matter. And I like to say willpower is the equivalent of a SWAT team being armed with a cabbage patch kid. it's co like you've got this force and then it's completely useless.

Angie:

Okay.

Holly:

So research is at MIT. They actually, found that when those cravings hit, your brain has already made a decision in less than half of a second that you are going to eat the food. Okay? So this decision is made in our brain in less than half of a second. Now we're gonna introduce dopamine. You think? Dopamine, you think, okay, that's the reward chemical. I'm around a baby or a puppy and yay, I feel happy. That's dopamine. Okay? Yeah. Dopamine is actually the anticipation chemical because it's released in anticipation of eating the food. And that's why these cravings are so automatic and obsessive. Because your brain has already started this reward process. So you've got ha less than half of a second, and then the dopamine is kicked in right before the food even touches your lips. Okay. And then let's add on top of that. And again, we're looking at all three mindful eating, into like mindful slash intuitive eating, willpower in everything in moderation, because they all kind of fall under the same bucket. And then, so we've got this, and then on top of that we're gonna add balmeister ego depletion theory. And I want you to think about it from this perspective. First thing in the morning you wake up are you like face in that bag of chips? Probably not. Yeah, but what about at nine o'clock at night after a hard day watching Netflix, right? That's when those cravings are the worst. And the most almost obsessive, right? I just can't stop eating. what they found is that the more decisions that we make during the day. The weaker our ability to resist those cravings. So I think, from just a natural hunger cycle from, the way that our hormones are, and I think also from that place of making a million different decisions during the day We are just so depleted at that moment in time.

Speaker 3:

Yeah.

Holly:

That we're just going to eat. And that's, I just, I love poking holes in this because. No one talks about it.

Angie:

what do you think leads a lot of women to choosing eating at like when they feel that way? you talk a little bit about the food noise, and I would love for you to just expand on that a little bit of why do we turn to food when we just feel depleted, stressed, have some of these uncomfortable emotions that we want to deal with. I shouldn't say that we want to deal with, but that we just want to bury, right? we don't wanna deal with them. we wanna bury them.

Holly:

a lot of people, a lot of people just like to just and I say lazily po point the finger at trauma. And trauma is big and I'm not trying to undermine trauma. Trauma is very big and important. Yeah. But. It's decades of these patterns on top of patterns, on top of beliefs. So let's say that, so I'll just give my own personal example. So I was brought up that if I get good a's I'm make good girl. So I was brought up that smart equals I have value. If I am smart, then I have value. If I get straight A's, then I have value. Yes. Okay. So being smart, When I am smart, then I have value. And then, oh, let's say I get straight A's, I get taken out for ice cream. So we're brought up with these patterns. And then when those patterns don't manifest themselves, so when we aren't feeling valued, when we aren't feeling like our voice is heard, when we aren't feeling worthy, we are seeking that comfort in some way, shape, or form. Oh yeah. And we, the easiest way is food because somewhere along the way we learned that food equals comfort.

Angie:

When

Holly:

I'm feeling down, and especially as a child, we don't have, we've got big emotions, but we don't know what to do with, and we don't know how to package them. Yeah. And process them. So somewhere along the way we've learned food equals comfort. So maybe there was trauma, maybe there wasn't. But there's always gonna be these patterns along the way. And then it is basically, the neurons in your brain that wire together fire together, and they're creating a, I can get into this in a few minutes, but they're creating basically this path in the woods. And this is the only path that we know. This is the only system that we know. And then we think about it from the perspective. and I think especially because women view this as a failure. Like I go on a diet and then I quit the diet or it doesn't work, or I gain the weight back or whatever. Therefore I'm a failure. Because we equate diet with the only system that we know is when you practice, you get better. So we all learned to drive a car that when we first started driving a car, we did not know how to drive a car. You were very hesitant and nervous and, All of that. We get back now, we can like, drive with one hand and, throw stuff in the backseat and get under the seat and drink something and all the things. Probably take our sports bra, all the things. While we're driving a car, like that's how good we are. Same with running. Like you start running, you're like, oh, this is painful. This hurts, this is, I can't, I can only run for a minute and then I gotta stop and walk. And the next thing you're doing a 5K, then a 10 K and all the things. Yeah. We have learned that when we practice, we get better. But dieting doesn't follow that. So I know there's a bunch of different, I think a bunch of different perspectives I brought hopefully to answer that question because I don't think there's necessarily one. Specific answer to that. I think it's a lot of different factors that just pile up on each other.

Angie:

Yeah, and I wanna go back to what you said here'cause I just had this aha moment when you were talking that I, and never really made that connection because Yes, of course I know that food equals comfort. We know that. Food releases. Some of these chemicals, especially the food that we tend to go to when we are in that emotional eating, stressed out state, we tend to go to the those high reward foods, whether it's the salty or the sweet or the sugary, whatever it might be. But what you just said about how. Sometimes a lot of us were conditioned to be rewarded with food because of something good that we did. We got straight A's on our report card, so we got to go out for ice cream. So our brain associated food, the ice cream as the reward. So when we don't, even, when we don't have that accomplishment, we still know that will bring back that good feeling. So we've wired that. Food and that experience with feeling good, feeling accomplished, feeling having someone be proud of us even. Yeah. Yeah. And that I've never seen that connection until you just said it right now, and it just makes me. It makes so much sense. And also as a mom of two girls, I'm like, oh no, what am I doing here? Because we literally just went out for ice cream the other night after my daughter's school play because she's can we go out for ice cream? And I said, yeah, of course. And so how do we navigate that, right? Because we wanna have these special times and that we shouldn't use food as a reward or we should, right? So there's that whole idea too. What do you say to that? Because there's there's food is fuel, right? Yeah. We can use food to, to fuel our bodies. And food is also celebration and connection. Yeah. And community. Like we can use food in that way. so I'm not really sure what, my question here is to be honest with you, but just what are your thoughts on that?

Holly:

Yeah, absolutely. And and even thinking back to, whether it's. the Bible or, they're Jewish faith or Muslim. And thinking back to, those times and everyone was brought up with food as a part of their celebrations. Yeah. So this is a part of us.

Angie:

Right.

Holly:

and it's basically being able to, separate and say like you just said, like that food is fuel.

Angie:

And

Holly:

really learning that food is fuel. Food does not have to equal comfort. Yes, it can taste good. Yes, I can be there for the celebration. But am I there because I want to eat the food, for the food to feel good, or am I there to be a part of. That time with everyone. all the holidays revolve around food and like you said, like all the events and you go out and all the things like that. So it is possible to be able to, to participate in these events and to think of it from that perspective of, I'm being present With everyone here and I'm being present for the celebration. Food is just food and it's the ability to really separate it.

Angie:

But do you think that we need to separate it? Because I, I think that it can be both, right? Like I think that food can be both part of the celebration and that it can, there can be emotional attachments to food because I don't really personally see anything wrong with that, as long as it doesn't lead to that mindless eating. But maybe I'm off base here. I don't know. What do you think?

Holly:

and yes and yeah. yes and right. Yes, it, no, but that's where we wanna be, is we wanna be able to be in that place where we can enjoy it. But for so many women that I work with, they, I. It is just so obsessive, like they worry about the food every time they go out to eat, or, yeah. Every time they're going to someone's house. what if they ask, what if they wanna try to put seconds on my plate? Or what if the dessert plate comes out and just, all of these worries and all of these, What ifs And not being able to control themselves. To say I can't just have one. Bite, I've got to eat the whole thing. Yeah. When I just want one bite. Or I'm not stopping when I'm full. I'm stopping when it's gone. So I think there's a distinction between looking at it from the perspective of, I need to have a healthy relationship around food. And I wanna be a part of the celebration. Does that make

Angie:

sense? Absolutely. And to add onto that as well, that whole idea of. Cleaning your plate, the Clean Plate Club that so many of us were conditioned. With as children. Like I know that's how it was in my family. Like I was not allowed to leave the table until my plate was clear and my mom would literally take the food sometimes if we didn't finish our food. And God bless my mom, no, no shame or anything to towards her. but she would put the plate in the refrigerator and if we then asked for dessert, she'd bring that back out and say, you have to finish your dinner first. that was how we were conditioned to not waste food because, things were tough or whatever it might be. That, that was how we were brought up. And then we don't realize that those patterns are still continuing in adulthood, running very subconsciously. So what do we do about that?

Holly:

Yeah. So can we get into the three step process?'cause this is really the solution. Teach us what you,

Angie:

what you know.

Holly:

Yeah. I use neuroplasticity and I combine it with FBI counterintelligence tactics. So love it. You're thinking like, oh my goodness, what's going on here? So I like to think of neuroplasticity as your brain is a path in the woods, and I talked about those patterns before, and it's this well-worn path. Your brain only wants to go down that path. It's the only path that knows it's comfortable, it's safe. Your brain loves that path. what we need to do is we need to create a new path for your brain to go down. So the first step is called see it. It's a three step process. So the first step is called see it. So this is where we actually use FBI inspired pattern analysis. We're going to look for hidden patterns and triggers. To so that you actually can understand that why behind reaching for the food when the stress hits. So we are literally getting out gloves and work boots, like it's gonna be a minute. It's gonna be some hard work. Like it's, it's not an overnight process and we need to understand that, hey, I need to build a new path in the woods.

Angie:

You

Holly:

know, how did this get here? And again, not just the trauma, but these decades of patterns.

Angie:

Right.

Holly:

And a perfect example of this, last year I spoke at MIT and my flight was delayed three hours. So I'm sitting in the psychology, A major in me was just going crazy. I'm sitting in the airport watching everyone React to this delay. And you've got the people, they're going to the Dunkin Donuts and they've got the donuts and the bagels, and then you've got the people that are going to the bar at eight o'clock in the morning and drinking. that's a See it perspective. Only you would do it. To yourself. But that was me watching other people, right? That was me seeing it, seeing these patterns. I am stressed and then I need to grab the food.

Speaker 3:

So

Holly:

that's step one. See it? So step two is stop it and that's where we are going to learn those FBI inspired tactics to actually interrupt the cycle. Real time to stop those cravings. Okay. Now remember when I talked about the half a second and the dopamine? This is when we are at a fork. So we've got a, this path in the woods and we're at that fork. So the new path is still we're still creating the new path. It's got, thorns and snakes and spiders, and we're still making it a new path. So we're coming into that fork and our brain is oh, I wanna go down the old path.'cause that's the path that I like.

Angie:

Yeah.

Holly:

But what we're doing at this point is in that moment of that V that fork in the road, we're like, Hey, brain. Go down the new path. We're still gonna, it's still a work in progress, but we're gonna go down that new path. And what we use are called countermeasures. And these are basically, they're going to prevent the threat before it happens.

Angie:

Okay.

Holly:

So in the context of emotional eating, so we use them in counterintelligence. So in the context of emotional eating, these are basically just tactical interventions. They're going to intercept that craving right at that fork in the road Right before your brain's I'm gonna go down the old path. You're like, whoa. Time out. We're gonna go down the new path. The easiest way to explain this is if you've ever had, if you've ever had a puppy. So we get a puppy, a pug, during the pandemic, he was a pandemic puppy. And, so I potty trained him. That's exactly what we're doing with our brain. We are potty training our brain. We're telling our brain, don't you know, don't go to the bathroom. Don't go poopy on the carpet. You're gonna go outside. Yeah, that's exactly what we're doing with our brain.

Angie:

Okay. and,

Holly:

and we're working with these big emotions and patterns that have been ingrained for years. Yeah. so step one is see it, step two is stop it. And then step three is shift it. And this is where we actually rewire those automatic responses because we want our brain to choose the new path. We want it to be automatic. We want it to be effortless. So when our brain comes to that fork in the way, so we see it, we stop it, and then a brain's oh, I'm gonna go down the new path. The new path is shiny and sparkly and I like the new path. Yeah. And the way that I like this is probably a really good example,'cause I know this has happened to me and I'm sure it's probably happened to some of your listeners too. So let's say that you're on a diet. You tell your spouse, your kids don't bring home any junk food because I'm on a diet. Okay. So you have a hard day at work. You get home late, and your spouse brought home cupcakes. So there's now cupcakes sitting on the counter, and what do you do? You get mad. First of all, you eat the cupcake because you had a hard day. Your brain is looking, your brain is laser focused on what is going to give me comfort. And those cupcakes are right there just like a laser beam. It's like I'm going to eat. So you have one or two or three cupcakes, and then what do you do? You feel the guilt, you feel the shame. So you're gonna get mad. Because you're mad at yourself. What do you do? You yell at your spouse? Get in here. Yeah. Like running into the kitchen. I told you, don't bring this into the house. I wanna, and you yell and you lose it and it's okay. I was the one that ate the cupcakes, that I'm the one getting mad. So this is where we wanna be in step three is those cupcakes can be on the counter and they're just cupcakes. So you can be around the cupcakes and you have absolutely no desire to eat them. Or maybe you have a few bites or you eat one and if it's a small or something like that and you put it down and it does not have any control over you. And that's exactly where we wanna be. And there was a study, are you familiar with the karaoke study? It's actually cool. I don't think so. So it's Alison Woodbrook and she's at a Harvard Business School. And she had, three groups of her, the people in this study. And what they did is they sang, don't Stop Believing Into a Karaoke Machine. Excellent. I know, right? Best thought. The choice, like standing on the table, s singing at the top of my lump was me. Yep. yes. Totally. okay. So the first group just sang normal. Okay. The second group, before they sang, they said, I'm nervous. And they repeated that to themselves a few times. Okay. Then the third group before they sang, they said, I'm excited. And they repeated that a few times. So the Just Singing group sang at 69% accuracy. Okay. The I'm Nervous group sang at 53% accuracy. The I'm Excited group sang it, 80% accuracy. Cool. What's interesting is that, this part of the brain, this is the prefrontal cortex, this is impulse control, decision making, self-regulation. and this is the part of the brain that you want in control around food. Yeah. Because this is going to be the logical part of your brain. And what this study proves is that even just small things, like even just between saying I'm nervous or I'm excited Change that part of the brain. For accuracy in singing this song. And the way that I really like to think about what this can bring you, like when you're on this side of the see it, stop it, shift it when you're on this side of the process. So my stepson's 22 now, I raised him since he was five. And when he was a little guy, he hated to brush his teeth. It was like. A constant battle every single day and night. And it was like, yeah, step mom, I brushed my teeth and he'd give me the toothbrush and it was wet. what he did was he put it under the water. Trying to trick me. I was like, no, like your breath smells. Go brush your teeth. Now we're adults. We don't have, post-it notes of affirmations on our bathroom saying, I'm a wonderful person. I brushed my teeth. like we just brush our teeth,

Angie:

right?

Holly:

But even more so than that, you can think about it from the perspective when, okay, so let's say it's just one of those mornings you're running late, you can't find your keys, you can't find your glasses, got in an argument with your spouse, your dog pooped on the carpet. whatever. It's one of those mornings. It doesn't matter what is going on in your life, there is probably a 100% chance that you are leaving your house with your teeth brush and that coffee in hand, and that's when we can look at it from that perspective. Of it doesn't matter what goes on in your world. That those habits are so ingrained that those pathways in your brain are so ingrained that it just becomes a part of you.

Angie:

To add onto that karaoke study. The very cool thing about that, and this is one of the things that we often talk to our athletes about, both on like in our real life runners, members, and we also, my husband and I also coach a high school cross country team. And I know that you're working with like the girl, a girls running club too, right? Yeah. Which is cool. we always tell our athletes that nervousness. Like the anxiety that you feel and excitement are literally the same hormone. It's neuro neurotransmitter in the body, right? It's just epinephrine that's being released. So neurologically, it's the same thing that's happening in the brain. It's literally just the story that you're telling yourself about what that feeling is. That's so powerful because that is proof of what exactly what you said, the prefrontal cortex, our decision making part of our brain. We get to decide when we feel this sensation because that there is an actual physical sensation that we feel, whether it's, nerves, anxiety, excited. We can tell ourselves what that sensation actually is. And what that study showed that was so super cool was that will then affect how you perform so you can. Relate that to anything you can relate it to, running, work, whatever.

Holly:

Yeah. I love that study. It is so much fun. it's karaoke, it's don't stop believing like it doesn't get any better. I like studies that are sexy.

Angie:

There you go. But I think it's just so powerful, right? Because it really is all about the story that we are telling ourselves. And so is that really how we can start to shift these beliefs and these old patterns? Like first we have to find the patterns, then we have to stop them in their track, and then we have to shift them, which is really just rewriting your story around food and that kind of thing. Is that part of it?

Holly:

Absolutely. it's a lot of forgiveness. It's a lot of, so a lot of the women that I work with in self included carry a lot of shame. Yeah. From the, from things in the past. And then the eating shame on top of it. And carrying a lot of secrets on top of the shame. Yeah. So it's, there's a lot of forgiveness that's involved, a lot of exercises that I do around forgiveness because when we can release that, it helps to get us to that place of viewing life in general. From a neutrality perspective.

Speaker 3:

Yeah.

Holly:

And that then helps us to get to that place where we can, our body feels safe to rewire those patterns.

Angie:

Yeah. And that's so powerful. And that really shows you the power of our nervous system in this whole arena as well, which is really the. Not just that affects our food choices and the way that our body processes food, but also our, the rest of our health choices and our running choices and our fitness choices and all these things because so many runners suffer from this in other areas as well. I know that there's a lot of runners that have dysfunctional or disordered eating habits. Because all these things get lumped together. A lot of times people start running because they wanna lose weight and they're then they're trying to diet and restrict on top of it, which just throws your hormones, especially if you're a woman in midlife. It just throws your hormones into even more chaos when you're restricting and working out and thinking you need to push harder and doing all the things, which we haven't even gotten into, but. It's really that being safe in your own body again, and it all comes back to that and allowing your body and your nervous system to feel safe and that will actually allow you to have more control over what, how your body responds to food and to exercise.

Holly:

100% and going back to the cupcakes on the counter, and you think about it from a safety perspective. When you've had that hard day and you walk into that house and even though you've had a hard day and you feel safe in your body, your nervous system regulated, you're gonna be like, okay, the cupcakes are just cupcakes. They're just neutral. They're just there. And your body isn't looking for that release. It's not, it's sometimes it's almost like a, what was that? The Yellowstone with the geyser, right?

Angie:

And,

Holly:

and our body needs a release for this stuff. So when we're, the more regulated we are The easier it is to have, releases like running and yoga, and stretching and walking and, all. Talking to friends and hanging out, all of these things. Yeah. Versus everything just being pent up, and then exploding.

Angie:

Absolutely. So this has been wonderful, Holly, I, if you had to give our listeners kind of one thing to take away, or if there's anything that we haven't talked about yet that you wanna mention, what would that be?

Holly:

Oh my goodness. I love to say the win is in the awareness. Because so often we put so much morality on. the numbers, the, the calories or the scale or whether we ate or we didn't ate, or whether the food is bad or not bad. And it's this win-loss. And I like to say the win is in the awareness. So when you can be aware, when you can actually just stop, take a step back, see the big picture, go into that logical part of the brain and say, what's going on here? What am I aware of? What am I aware of in my environment? What am I aware of in my body? And after that, whether you eat the thing or not, the awareness is the win. And I really encourage everyone listening to celebrate that perspective, that the awareness is the win.

Angie:

Yeah. I love that so much because then when you have the awareness, you can, it's easier for you to make a choice. And if your choices that you still want to eat the food, then you're making that choice. But the goal, I think would be to stop that mindless, habitual pattern loop that we ha have no control over, because there's nothing wrong inherently with the food itself. I. Eat ice cream, you can eat chips. And I think hopefully as a health coach you would agree with that as well. And that kind of goes back to those three things that you were talking about, like with moderation. Everything in moderation, mindful eating or intuitive eating and willpower. Once you have the awareness and you learn how to stop and shift it. Those things actually start working. Is that kind of what you're saying? A hundred percent. Those three things don't work when you're still in the, in this dysfunctional cycle, but once you start to shift it, then those things can actually, I. And it, and

Holly:

it goes from, I need to devour the entire bag. Yeah. To, okay, this is, this is a treat. I'm gonna have a bite or two and I'm good to go. Yeah. I know there's other foods that are gonna fuel my body better and I want to feel better. Yeah. So I'm gonna have a bite or two, I'm gonna enjoy it. And that's good. That's enough. That's all I need. That is, that's a huge night and day difference, and that is such a powerful place to be.

Angie:

Yeah. And that whole process is really just learning how to reconnect to your body again, right?'cause we are just taught to disconnect and to just push through stress, eat. all these like habitual patterns that we've gotten into are just ways for us to disconnect from our body from what's happening. And when we really reconnect to our signals, to our hunger cues, to really understanding what our body needs and doesn't need, then we get all of our power back. Yes, 100%. I love that so much. So Holly, thank you so much for being here today. Where can our runners connect with you if they wanna learn more from you?

Holly:

Yeah, absolutely. So thank you again Angie, and because your listeners stayed till the end, I wanna do something really special for them. So this is something that I only have for my paying clients. You can't find it anywhere else. And this is for you if you are a woman in midlife and I. the things that I talked about today resonated with you, like you're not in control around the food. You've got the stress eating, the mindless snacking, and just really hijacked by those, the food cravings and the noise.

Speaker 3:

Yeah.

Holly:

And the bundle that I have, it's called the Emotional Eating Tactical Blueprint, and it's got two things. So the first gift is, actually is on my website. You can get that for free. It's a personality and it's a psychological analysis. It's actually a quiz, but it's designed as a psychological analysis. You're gonna uncover the number one emotional and stress eating trigger so you can actually finally understand what those triggers are so you don't feel like. A victim to them.

Speaker 3:

Yeah. Cool. And then

Holly:

the second thing in the bundle is the, is something that is only behind the paywall. And I'm gonna give it to your listeners totally free. Thank you. And this is really cool. It's called the Crime Scene Files Emotional Eating Edition. So this is where you're gonna go from understanding the patterns you're gonna actually get. The tactical tools to intercept those triggers and the behaviors. And I designed this True Crime podcast style. So if you get geeked out about the True Crime Podcast or the Law and Order, CSI TV shows, yeah, you are gonna love this'cause that's exactly what this is. So that's awesome. yeah, so if you want the emotional Eating tactical blueprint, again totally free. As my thanks for listening, go to my Instagram and it's at Holly dot Bertone, B-E-R-T-O-N-E. And that's, DM me the word Blueprint. Blueprint and I will send it over to you. Awesome. So yeah, so it's the emotional eating tactical blueprint. Go to my Instagram, Holly dot Bertone, B-E-R-T-O-N-E, and DME, the word blueprint.

Angie:

Perfect. And we'll put those, that link in the show notes as well. So if you are. Listening to this on your favorite podcast player, just hit pause, go to the show notes and that link will be there waiting for you and you can just DM Holly to get that tactical blueprint. That sounds so cool. I love how you integrate like your FBI counterintelligence with that health coaching it. It's so cool. Yeah, I love that. Yeah, it is. It's a lot of fun. I love it. All right Holly, thank you so much for being here and I hope that you guys will definitely take her up on that offer and grab that blueprint, over on Instagram today. So thanks so much, Holly. We'll talk to you soon. Alright, thanks.