475: When Your Identity Gets Stripped Away with Heather Lacy

What happens when something you’ve always used to define yourself suddenly disappears? In this episode, Angie talks with Heather Lacey about identity, running, career changes, injury, and the uncomfortable process of figuring out who you are when a familiar title no longer fits.

Heather spent 20 years as a healthcare executive before being laid off. Running became an important coping tool during that transition, but she eventually realized she had transferred the same achievement-driven identity into running. From chasing career titles to chasing PRs, Heather shares what she learned about going all in, the pressure to prove yourself, and what happens when running is temporarily taken away by injury.

Heather also shares the story of her son Luke’s scoliosis surgeries during COVID and how running helped her manage the stress of months in the hospital. Her experience ultimately changed how she viewed racing, performance, and success. This conversation is a reminder that you are more than your job, your pace, your race results, or any other title you give yourself.

Heather Lacy is a healthcare executive turned running coach, advisor, and author of The Other Side of the Mirror: What Happens When Your Title Disappears. After spending 20 years building her career, Heather experienced firsthand what happens when a title that has shaped your identity is suddenly gone. Her journey led her to explore who we are beyond our careers, achievements, and even our identities as runners. Through her story, Heather encourages others to embrace change, let go of past versions of themselves, and find freedom in discovering who they are in each season of life. 

If you want to connect with her, you can find her at the links below!

Website: heather@heatherlacy.com
Instagram: @heather.lacy
Book: The Other Side of the Mirror: What Happens When Your Title Disappears

00:28 Heather's running origin story

05:18 Taking a pause to figure out what's next

07:10 From chasing career titles to chasing PRs

08:51 “You're faster than you think you are”

10:37 Becoming a running coach

13:10 Does a coach have to be fast?

16:18 When running becomes your identity

17:19 Injury and losing the ability to run

19:34 The Other Side of the Mirror

23:05 It's never too late

24:22 Giving yourself time before you pivot

26:05 Luke's scoliosis journey

32:33 When a marathon isn't about the PR

35:45 The power of the running community

37:30 Why Heather wrote her book

40:55 Authenticity and being yourself

42:20 What running means to Heather now

Gain access to my new secret podcast, Unbreakable: The Runner's Guide To Injury-Proofing Your Body After 40. Click here: https://www.realliferunners.com/secret

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Transcript

0:00

Welcome back to the Real Life Runners podcast, episode number 475. Today I'm joined by Heather Lacey, and we are talking about what happens when your title or your identity gets stripped away. So if you've ever gone through any sort of transition in your life and you feel like you're just not who you used to be, or the person that you thought you were is no longer there, then I'm sure you can relate to this episode. So stay tuned.

angie 0:46

All right. Welcome back to the podcast, everybody. I'm here with Heather Lacey. What's up, Heather? How are you?

heather 0:51

Hi, I'm doing great, Angie. I'm so glad to be here today.

angie 0:53

I'm so glad you're here. So Heather and I are gonna have an awesome conversation today about one of my favorite topics, which you all know, which is identity. And Heather just wrote a book, but I'm gonna let her introduce herself to all of you. So Heather, tell us a little bit about yourself and who you are and why you're here.

heather 1:12

Yeah. So my name is Heather Lacey, and I recently wrote The Other Side of the Mirror: What Happens When Your Title Disappears. And so I was a healthcare executive for 20 years. I ended up later being a running coach, and now I continue to work with healthcare organizations, doing some advising work. But I, met running later in life. like a lot of people, they end up doing it when they're young and, transition into doing some other things when they're older. But for me, I was one of those people that was like, I wasn't running unless somebody was chasing me. And so actually, when I was on a work trip, I was in India and, I was walking on the treadmill and my boss at the time was like, "Have you ever thought about running?" I'm like, yeah, I've thought about running, but I'm not really sure that's for me." And she said, "Yeah, but, you're gonna get so much more out of it if you just, run. Just try it for a little bit." And so I'm kinda tall and thin, and I think people just think automatically, "Oh, Heather's a runner," or, "This will be easy for her." And when I started running, I ran at about 11 and a half minute mile, and it was very hard for me. So it was like, let's go a quarter mile on the treadmill, and then when I came home from that trip, it was like, okay, let's just get to the stop sign. It was very hard for me. and so it also helped me, like when we would be on trips, like I, I would use this time to kinda clear my head now that I had learned, like, how to utilize running. So I used it in conjunction with, the work that I was doing to- when I turned 40, my husband bought me a gift certificate to a running group, that was a half marathon group, and I just thought at the time, "That is not a great birthday present," right? I loved- What are you doing,

angie 2:49

dude?

heather 2:50

Yeah. I'm like, I don't necessarily want to start running, half marathons, and it was a training group. so it was still, I was dabbling in it some too. And, eventually ran, a half marathon, then two weeks later I ran another one. Two weeks later I ran another one. I fell in love with it. So it really became part of, who I was.

angie 3:10

Yeah.

heather 3:10

And I didn't realize, like, how much it was going to help me, throughout my life at the time. So I ended up getting laid off at the very end of 2018, early 2019, and this was after I laid off, 300 people. I had 600 employees. We closed an office. And, that was a really hard thing for me because I was the person that had laid off all of these people- and then two years later I was, like, getting laid off. So then it became, a coping mechanism for me to get out and, run and just, trying to explore, who am I now that I'm not that executive anymore? that's who I was for 20-plus years of my life. I really focused on just trying to, figure out what am I now? Yeah. Who am I now? What's happening in my life now, too,

angie 3:56

Yeah. So tell us a little bit more about, like, when you got the news. 'cause, you s- you tell, you say that you id- really identified as that executive. Like, how deeply entrenched was that as part of your identity?

heather 4:09

Yeah. h- at the time I was, like, in Connecticut actually on a work trip. I was up there a lot. at that point in time during my life I had been home, six weeks, on the weekends only out of, 12 weeks, so I'd come home every other weekend. And so my mother-in-law was here putting the kids in bed at night, and here I was, like, pretty much living out of my suitcase in Connecticut. So- I was living, y- and breathing that life every single day.

angie 4:34

Yeah.

heather 4:35

going to boardroom meetings. I thought it was very important at the time. meeting with the CEO. I made some decisions for our organization. We were bleeding a million dollars a day. When you're bleeding a million dollars a day, you have to make some really hard decisions. but I didn't realize I was gonna be one of those hard decisions that had to be made, down the road. So I was in Connecticut, and, I didn't tell my husband at first, as soon as it happened. I was just really ashamed- more than anything. Like- Yeah because that is who I was. Like, who am I gonna be now, now that part of my life is gone? Or I felt like it was gone.

angie 5:08

Did you feel like... Did you recognize that right away, or did it take you some time to recognize that identity, like how deeply tied your identity was to that role? Or was it more like... 'Cause m- my, my brain goes to, in the time of, being laid off, 'cause I've been laid off as well, there is a lot of shame in- involved in that. And, I know for me, and I'm curious for you, for me it was a lot of I did something wrong, and there, there was, like, that guilt and that shame around it. and so I'm curious, was that kind of how you, you experienced it as well, and then later realized how big it was tied to your identity? Or was this kind of, like, all right away?

heather 5:48

Yeah, no, I don't think I really realized it all, like- Yeah right then. thought, oh my gosh." I did think, "What did I do wrong? What-

angie 5:55

Yeah

heather 5:55

what did I miss," right? I'm- in these important rooms with these people. there had to have been some signs. what was it that I wasn't thinking through at the time, too?

angie 6:02

Yeah.

heather 6:02

So y- immediately when I came home, I thought, "Okay, you need to be applying for another job. You need to be looking for stuff right away. you've got to do this." And I had to actually take a step back and look and see, okay, what is it that you wanna do? is this what you wanna do next? Do you wanna continue on this road? Because, y- tying myself to that also, took away some things from, my family. I wasn't there- for my two older children, at the time, and so here I became, this person that was working all of the time, and then now I wasn't working and I was running more, and I think my family was like, "Who is this woman," right? you went from, this person who was, like, just working all the time, and you started running to, now you're, like, doing a half-marathon every other weekend. who is this girl now, too? So- I was trying to figure out, who am I now that this part of my life is, seems like it's over?

angie 6:50

Yeah. I love that you took the time to even ask that question, because I think that so many people don't. I think that so many people, they have this idea of who they are and what they're supposed to be doing, and then they lose a job, and then they just keep forging ahead. So I love that you took that pause to ask yourself, is this really what you wanna do? Is this really the life that you wanna live? And so how did you answer that question at that time?

heather 7:15

Yeah, it was really hard, right? Because then there's the financial burden. Now, some people can- just immediately be like, "Okay, I can do this. my family's okay." Yeah. what can we...? So I did receive a severance package, so I was able to take a little bit of time. That last worked for, I worked for them for 11 years. I was fortunate enough to have that where I could decide, okay, what do I wanna do now, too? So at that point in time I'm like, okay, do I wanna do something part-time? And I decided to get a personal training certificate for two reasons. one, my son I knew was gonna need an extensive surgery and a lot of rehabilitation, and I wanted to just immerse myself in that world and know as much as I could, at the time in the shortest amount of time possible.

angie 7:54

Yeah.

heather 7:54

And then, also part of who I am is I wanna give back to other people. that's a real part of who I am, and like kindness matters to me. It's not just the role, and I had tied myself to that role and that title, right? It was always chasing that title.

angie 8:09

Yeah.

heather 8:09

what's the next title? Is it, director, senior director, executive director, VP? And so that was driving me, was that title. and so then it was like I don't want that to be the driver anymore, the getting to the next title. I want it to be something different for me. And now while I'm saying that, I'm realizing like what happened in the running world for me too. and we've had some conversation about this, but I kinda shifted that from driving for the next title to doing the same thing in my running. And, it went from, running slow and getting comfortable to that to challenging myself to, okay, now what's the next PR that you're chasing?

angie 8:50

Yeah.

heather 8:51

And so I started tying my identity to being a runner. I didn't really give myself that chance to, like what else can we do? It was like from one thing to the other.

angie 9:00

Yeah. and let's get into running right now because obviously- Yeah this is, that's what we talk a lot about on the podcast. And I forgot to mention at the beginning of the episode that Heather and I know each other in real life, you guys. Yeah. So He- Heather and I are actually part of the same like running group in our area. and we've run together multiple times. I remember like one of the first times running with you- And this was, I think, before you started chasing everything, and you were- Yeah just, I think it was early in your journey, we, that we started- to run together.

heather 9:30

Yes. Yeah. One of

angie 9:30

the- And then you quickly became faster than me, so we no longer ran together after that.

heather 9:35

Yeah. I do wanna say something about that. So it's really interesting, and I wanna give you credit for something, Angie, and it's, if I have, a version two of my book, it actually should be in there. And it makes me wanna even get tearful, because something that you said to me, I later became a running coach, and we'll talk about that, too, at w- some point, I hope, but, that I tell other people now, too. And it is that you said to me, "You're faster than you think you are." And I was preparing to go into, I think, my third or fourth half-marathon in a row, right? And I just was feeling like, I'm not sure that I can do it. And you looked at me with, certainty and this total belief that I didn't have in myself when you said, "You're faster than you think you are." And I said, "Really?" And you were just like, "Yes. I know. You need to know it. You need to believe it." And so I thank you for that, because that gave me that, encouragement that I needed then to actually believe in myself, and that was a huge turning point for me, to where it was like, okay, I actually can go faster. Like, why are you trying to limit yourself? so I think it's really important, the stories that we tell ourselves.

angie 10:39

Oh, yeah.

heather 10:40

sometimes those become true.

angie 10:42

Yeah.

heather 10:42

And I just needed somebody to believe in me, and at that time it was you, and say, "Hey, you can do this."

angie 10:47

That's amazing. I love that. and it was true. it was so funny. I wasn't even trying to coach you. I remember we were just on a run together, Yeah. and you were, like, talking about something. I don't even remember what exactly. Yeah. But I was like, "This girl has no idea what she's capable of." So I just had to tell you, because that's obviously who I am. But, Yeah t- tell me a little bit about running. I know that running is a big part of your story. So you got into running just while you were still an executive. Yes. Yeah. running on vacation, and then obviously you got laid off, and then running was there for you. So what made you decide that, this was the thing that you were gonna throw yourself into?

heather 11:21

Yeah. number one, I really enjoyed it. Yeah. And, so I also was a swimmer in school, so I got into triathlon, in 2020. so I was enjoying, the running and the swimming aspect- of it. and at th- around the same time is when I got my personal training certificate, and I was thinking like, "How can I help other people with this?" But I still didn't have that complete belief in myself, although I had started to get faster-

angie 11:42

Yeah

heather 11:43

that I was ready to, like coach other people on that level. I started coaching, swimming clients. I taught young children how to swim and adults how to swim, and did that on a part-time basis. But it really hadn't evolved into, like coaching other people into how to do running. And I did a, 70.3 triathlon, and, an owner of a local running store reached out to me and just said, "Hey, I would really like you to come and try and start coaching some of our people." And I just thought, "Me? Y- why would you want me to do that?" And he said, that's what you did for most of your life. You were coaching other people." And I just didn't think about it like that. Yeah. that, like that's part of who you are is coaching other people. And I had been part of, like a group that he was leading too. And, so that was very hard for me at first. I knew, okay, I knew how to go from that 11-minute mile, to, I could run a six-minute mile, one mile. just to be clear here. But, I knew what it took to make that transition over time- and you helped me with the self-belief part of it. But, it was very hard for me to show up with, like the visor on and the running jersey, and people would be like, "Oh, I'm a doctor. I'm a lawyer." "I am a teacher," whatever it was, like their- Yeah profession. And I had to keep my mouth shut. And that was my choice to do that, but who they saw me as was a running coach, right? And, I still saw myself as more than that. So I really hadn't fully healed from, okay, this job loss part of it either too 'cause, I hadn't fully accepted, okay, this is your new identity, the running coach piece of it. my first year as a running coach, was my second marathon, and I thought, "Wow, I really have to do well because these people are watching me and they're counting on me." And I put a lot of pressure on myself, but I will tell you that I improved 30 minutes, from my first marathon to my second marathon. it, it- there is a lot to be said there, and it wasn't based on ability more than anything. It was, like, consistency over time, right? Yeah. It was doing the same thing, showing up day after day- applying a lot of the same things that I had done in my work life, actually, my professional life, to this new running world. So as I was coaching and learning and growing, I was teaching other people some of those things at the same time, too.

angie 13:54

Yeah. It's such a wild thing, I think, with, running coaching, because I know this is a, a realization that I've had as well. as a physical therapist, I never thought that I had to experience my patient's pain in order to be able to help them. I just knew I could help them because of my knowledge, my background, my experience. And, it's not like you have to take it to a very extreme level. It's not like you have to have a spinal cord injury to help someone w- rehab from a spinal cord injury. But yet, as running coaches, there is this pressure of my performance- matters, right? And I just think that's such an interesting thing, because I'm, I've experienced it myself, too, and it sounds like you have, too, where now all of a sudden it's not just about what you know and how you can help somebody, it's also about how you perform and how somehow your running time says something about you as a coach, which I completely disagree with. I don't think that- your personal running time really says anything about you as a coach. But I know I've felt that pressure as well, and it sounds like you have, too.

heather 14:55

Yeah, initially I really did, right? Because I thought, "Okay, they're gonna want somebody that's coaching them that has really, made some improvements." And there are people in the local area, and at the national le- area that are so much faster. what are they gonna get from me? But I had to just remember too, the, the person who is the coach on the football field isn't always the person that was the star quarterback too. It's the person that- has the ability to do the coaching- and to have that belief, in other people that they can improve too.

angie 15:21

Yeah.

heather 15:21

and so it was so exciting for me. And at one point, somebody that I coached with this last year, who I'm hoping is taking over some coaching that I used to do, but just to see him, he went from, a 4:30 marathon, to his last marathon was 3:10. And it was like, wow. It went from, okay, he's running behind me, to next to me, to now he's running in front of me. And that was so gratifying to see. Yeah. And it's you don't have to be the fastest one out there to be an effective coach or an effective leader.

angie 15:53

100%. I completely agree, and I just think that's something that's very important for people to understand also, you know, that just because someone is good at something doesn't mean that they are qualified to coach, and vice versa. Just because someone is not faster than you doesn't mean that they're not qualified, because they can very likely help you even if you are faster than them. I always tell my clients, especially, my cross country kids, "I want you all to be faster than me." Like- Yeah it's my job for you to be faster than me. You should not- Yeah be as slow as your coach, right? I want you guys to all get better than me using my knowledge and my experience and all of the things that I bring to the table.

heather 16:32

Yeah. I do a lot of the same thing too. And so when we would do, sprints and stuff, 'cause I'm an endurance girl. I know a lot of times when I run with people- Yeah they're, like, hanging in there with me for the long haul. They may not be able to. But a lot of people are faster than me, in the short term. And so- I really encourage people, go. I want them to be faster than me, just like you're saying too. Yeah. Because you get to see them grow. And th- they even see, "Oh, I'm faster than her right now." And you hope that, turns something over in their head where they're saying, "Okay, yeah." Yeah. "I can do this."

angie 17:00

Yeah.

heather 17:01

Make a difference in themselves.

angie 17:03

Agreed. So thinking about, the runner identity, and, I know that this is something that a lot of our listeners, I think, we have kind of two camps. we have people that definitely call themselves runners, and they identify as runners, and they build a lot of their- Yeah life around being a runner. And then I also think we have a lot of people that it takes, it took them a little bit longer to call themselves a runner, right? So I'm curious with you, when did you start to, actually take on the runner identity? When did you start calling yourself a runner? Did you have any sort of, issue with that? Or d- did you just, s- "Yep, okay, I'm, I run. I'm a runner"?

heather 17:37

Yeah, so I went from one extreme to the other, right? At first I was like, "Oh, I'm not really a runner," because I really couldn't even make it that far.

angie 17:44

Yeah.

heather 17:44

And even I think after my first couple half-marathons, I still didn't really see myself as a runner.

angie 17:49

Yeah.

heather 17:49

it was, first coaching people. I'm believing it now 'cause I'm coaching people. But, after that first year of coaching people, then it was like, wow, okay. It became my identity then. So I totally embraced it at that point in time. I embraced it so much to the point that I actually at one point I had an injury, that wasn't specifically due to running, but still at the same time I couldn't run. And when I couldn't run, I was like, "Oh, who am I now?" Because I had attached myself to an identity again, which is... It's sad, but it's very common. Yeah. people do this all throughout their life, right? And so then it was like, okay, if you can't be a runner or you have to work through healing over the next, six, nine months, w- who are you now? Yeah. What is it that you wanna do, And it's interesting because runners tend, not all runners, but a lot of runners, put themselves in environments around other people that run. We typically do. and so then it's- Yeah like you feel a longing to talk to those people, but yet you also feel very disconnected because you can't do the same things that you were doing with those people before. trying to like... I almost grieved it at one point and I just thought, this really isn't healthy for me. I did this, as an executive. I'm doing this now again as a- Yeah runner, and I don't wanna keep continuing this pattern, you know- throughout my life." So I had to learn, okay, so w- what are you going to do now? what if you couldn't run, in the future? you've gotta be healthy. So I've really, worked on, doing exercises with weights, and just, reminding myself that there's other things out there too that- that I can do, that I don't have to tie myself to one thing specifically.

angie 19:24

Yeah. Yay for strength training, first of all. Yeah. And second of all, I think that, what I'm hearing you talk about here is a lot of that all or nothing personality that I think- Yeah that a lot of runners can identify with, Yeah. you go all in, like, when you're excited, and I think that's one of the things that makes you successful, and that makes a lot of people successful- is that willingness to go all in, right? So you went all in on your executive role, and then you went all in as a runner, and that led to a lot of success. But like anything, there's always that shadow side, and I think that's the part that people don't talk enough about, and maybe that's, more we can get into, your book. But, like, when you tie yourself to that one thing and then that thing gets taken away- Yeah then what, right? Yeah. Then what? and I think that we oftentimes going all in can be a super power, but it can also have a shadow side that not a lot of people understand.

heather 20:18

And that's one of the reasons why I named my book The Other Side of the Mirror, right? So you go look at yourself in the mirror all the time and you see this person, right? Yeah. But, what's the other side of that when you can't be that person anymore? There's more there than just the runner or the executive, and, it happens to lots of people during their lives, right? Yeah. Whether they retire and they did the same job for 30 years, or you're a stay-at-home mom and the kids are graduating and the last one's gone.

angie 20:43

Yeah.

heather 20:43

People continue to tie themselves to that identity. And then what do you do when that's stripped away? Now, there's a different person there. So it's like trying to get rid of the title itself and try and, ti- tie yourself to just who you are as, a person and what you're doing, rather than specifically, I'm that one thing, right? I can be more than one thing. I can be lots of different things too- and still be, successful and be very happy.

angie 21:08

Yeah, and I think that a lot of our listeners can identify with that because most of our listeners, I would say, are probably in their 40s and their 50s, and they're going through- these life transitions now, where the kids are moving out, and maybe they've identified as mom or as a wife or as, a, a certain job title. And n- now... Or their body's changing, right? Perimenopause- Yeah is rearing its ugly head, right? and so all of these things that we've tied ourselves to are in flux in a lot of ways, and I think that's where a lot of people get lost and they start floundering. And so what do we do in those situations? what did you figure out for yourself, to help you get through that?

heather 21:52

Yeah, I think like some of my first realizations were also seeing it in some other people, right? So I had a neighbor down the street, an elderly lady who was like this super sought aft- after hairdresser, okay? And, her hands were her gift, right? Yeah. And people would travel from New York to come get their hair cut from her. And I ran into her in, Walgreens, and she was standing in front of the counter and she was trying to open the pill bottle. And, these special hands of hers, she couldn't open the pill bottle. Yeah. And then she's trying to tell the lady, "No, these pills are, like, yellow pills. I'm supposed to be taking white pills." And I walk over to try and help her 'cause I know her, and tell her, "No, they're this. This is what they really are." Yeah. And, she's like, "I can't see anymore. I can't use my hands anymore, and, nobody will help me." And I've spent a lot of time talking to her. And, i- so late in life now, she's still... she sees herself val- now as n- not valuable because she had just tied herself to, "All I am is this hairdresser for people."

angie 22:47

Yeah. You

heather 22:47

know, and she did it for so long. And then so for me, it's... it was o- eye-opening. I'm like, "I don't wanna be, like, 80 years old and, I've tied myself to these different things-

angie 22:56

Right

heather 22:57

and then I'm unhappy." So I- it made me sit back and say, "Okay, what are all of these other things that I can offer or that I want to, set goals for myself, rather than just be known as, the mom or be known as, the executive or the runner?" 'Cause I don't want that. I have some other goals in my life. So it was a good activity for me to sit down and say, "Okay, so what's important for me? what are some of the things that I wanna accomplish now-" Yeah that I'm trying to look at some things differently to?"

angie 23:26

Yeah. And what would you say to somebody that thinks it's too late? 'cause I hear a lot of that too, of people that say, "Oh, it's too late. I'm already this age," or, "I'm already that," or, "I'm already..." our brains like to come up with all these crazy excuses to keep us right where we are, right? Because- Yeah change and growth is scary. forming a new identity and, coming up with new-

heather 23:46

Yeah

angie 23:47

activities that I wanna be. Like, I don't even know what I'm interested in, right? that's where a lot of people find themselves is, I don't even know what I would do. So what would you say to those people?

heather 23:56

Yeah, so I would say it's never too late. I'm 48, and I just wrote a book for the first time in my life. i- it's not too late to change. And now I'm, like, working with healthcare organizations, doing speaking. a- and I just, I would have never thought that I would be doing this at that point in time, too. And so I think that you have to push through whatever it is that you're doing that's really hard. So the first six months that you start doing something new, whether it's at the new job or whether it's running, the... My God, that was so hard for me. It did not come naturally the first six months. But wow, I met you probably around that time period. things started changing. So the same thing. When I first started writing this book, I was just like, the first chapter came pretty easy, but after that it was like, "What is the message that I'm trying to say here?" Yeah. And, I, I, I had shared it with you. It took longer than I thought it was gonna take to finish it. And so it's almost like after that, that period where you're like, "Man, is this gonna ever happen?" Then it happens, right? But you have to sit in that uncomfortable spot a little bit and finish working through whatever it is so that you can get to the other side of it. Yeah. I'm sure the same thing probably happened with you. "Oh, I'm starting a podcast," right? And you've done, 400 plus episodes now. I

angie 25:04

know, it's crazy.

heather 25:05

it's amazing.

angie 25:06

Yeah.

heather 25:07

a- it, that's really the hard part because when it seems like, "Oh, man," "Ugh, I'm not where I thought I would be"- you gotta just stick in there a little bit longer. And it's always okay to pivot. That's the other thing that's super important, is, 'cause I think you get s- people get stuck, "Oh, am I this now? Is this what I have to do?" And now you can always change your mind. Yeah. But, just try it for a period of time. Whether it's an activity or whether it's, the new job that you're trying to pursue, whatever it is, don't give up on yourself. make sure that you give it the right amount of time to be successful.

angie 25:37

Yeah. I 100% agree, and I think that's such great advice. and giving it the right amount of time because there is that period of discomfort that no matter what you're taking on, and there is that identity crisis, right? Of like, "Is this really who I wanna be? Is this really what I wanna be doing?" And I think that we have to allow ourselves that period of discomfort and to tr- actually try to get through that before we make a decision of whether or not it's time to pivot. And so I like to tell people often- Give yourself a certain amount of time. say, "Okay, I'm gonna do this for six months," or, "I'm gonna do this for three months." Because like you said, it's the same thing with running. It's the same thing- Yes with writing your book. It's the same thing with all these things. It's that consistency that you mentioned earlier of doing that thing day in and day out, actually getting better at it because of that consistency. 'Cause a lot of times when we're, when we start something- Yeah we suck. Yeah. And we're not good at it, Yeah. And that's really uncomfortable, and that's where most people wanna quit. They wanna quit in the sucky period. But if we can- Yeah get through that sucky period, and that's like what you, was going on with you and your running,

heather 26:40

Yeah

angie 26:41

getting through that sucky period opened up all sorts of doors, right? Opened up this whole- Absolutely new world of, speed, and Boston qualifying, and all these different things. Yeah. And I wanna also mention a story that you and I talked about. I obviously remember when you were going through all of this with your son, because I think that this is a time that consistency in the running was really helpful for you. So can you tell us a little bit about that story?

heather 27:07

Yeah. my son Luke was, born with, scoliosis. And so while that may not sound like that's bad, during his adolescent years and during early COVID, it went from like a, 60, 70 degree curve to 130. And his surgery got canceled three times. We end up having to change the surgery to have it in Boston, because the hospital here just kept closing over- and over again. Yeah. And for me, I was just like, "How am I gonna get through this time period, like, where I'm helping and supporting him?" 'Cause this was, he had to have two surgeries, and we were in the hospital, two and a half months, and then we had to stay in Boston longer than that too for him to recover before we could fly home.

angie 27:45

Yeah.

heather 27:45

And so part of me would feel guilty because I would leave the hospital and go for an hour run. And, the most that my son could do would be go up to the rooftop when I would wheel him up there and look out, which is beautiful over the city, but I got to leave the hospital room and go do the run. and then I, bring him back pizza or Chick-fil-A or whatever, and so I'm hoping that he's going to be smiling. So the running was helping me, get out of the hospital, but at the same time it was also difficult because I'm like, "Oh, I- I'm going to go out here and be able to get away." And my son, was tied to what's called, a halo. And so it's really like a, a metal halo that goes around your head with, four metal screws that gets sc- screwed into your skull. And then there was, like, a pulley system attached to his head. So he was attached to that all of the time. and Luke's story is, really resilient when he went through all of this as well, because Luke was never a runner, never did any of that kind of stuff at all. he ran around like a normal kid, right? but when he came out of the hosp- hospital, he, he could barely walk. And so we thought that, oh, we're gonna come home and everything's gonna be fine. Most kids come home from a back surgery, and within six weeks they're walking around normal- Wow no issues. after six weeks, if Luke's knees were bent, then he was straight from his back up. If his legs were straight, then the back was leaning forward. And so at that point in time, the doctor put him in some very rigorous physical therapy. And surprisingly enough to me, there isn't a lot of physical therapy done after someone goes through that type of back surgery. I was floored by that.

angie 29:27

Yeah.

heather 29:28

we really immersed him and pushed for that. So it took him a good, six months to learn to walk again normally, which was different than what most kids were. And here I was, like, this running coach, right? And my kid's, struggling to, walk. Yeah. And I thought, "Wow, God, did you put me in this situation because you knew, okay, you're gonna be dealing with this?" And I would have never been able to take off that amount of time, even with, you know-

angie 29:51

Yeah

heather 29:52

regular FMLA and stuff. so Luke c- later that year just, he tried and, walked and walked. He was on the treadmill every day. And, two years later, he came with us to, the Houston Marathon, and John and I, my husband, ran the marathon that year. And Luke signed up for the 5K. And, ran like a, a 10:30 mile, I think. so 30-minute 5K, which to me was just absolutely amazing after what my son had been through.

angie 30:22

Absolutely.

heather 30:23

And so we come home, and this is really interesting, a week later, I go back with my husband to go on a work trip, and I'm, I call my mom to check in on Luke and she said, "Oh, I just picked Luke up from track practice." I was like, "What are you talking about?"

angie 30:38

What?

heather 30:39

She said, "I just picked Luke up from track practice." So I know the coach of the high school he goes to. I'm like, "What are you talking about?"

angie 30:46

Yeah.

heather 30:46

So I call the coach and I'm like, "Hey, is Luke at track practice?" And she knows Luke's story. "No, I didn't see Luke at track practice, but there's 150 kids." "And don't tell Luke that he makes the team." I'm like, "Okay. All right. all right, let's see what happens here." I'm like, "Luke, why did you wanna join the track team?" And he's like, I just wanted to prove that I could do it to myself. you and dad run these marathons, and you're running all the time. I just wanted to prove it to myself." So Luke was placed in, the 800, and when he ran the 800 meter, he came in last place, I'm telling you, by at least a full lap around the track. My heart was broken for him, but also overjoyed at the same time. Yeah. Because although I think he felt humiliated, this was, like, something he felt like he needed to do. And later that same year, he ran the mile, and this is nothing special compared to most high school kids, but for me, it was amazing. Luke ran an 8.07 mile, and so for me, that was just, so amazing, that he was able to do that. And it was really just to challenge himself, and he didn't want mom and dad to help him. And knowing that we had, were running, and so I just, I don't know that any of our running had any influence over that or not. I hope it did, but, I wanted to make sure that story got shared, too, because, it's not my story, but it's really resilient just to see, like, how running can totally change someone's life and the impact it makes.

angie 32:14

Yeah. Absolutely. I love that story for so many reasons. there's so much goodness in there. but I also, kinda going back to your portion of that, I love that running was that constant in your life in a very- ch- I don't wanna say traumatic, but a very stressful situation. when your child- Yeah is in a halo and in the hospital and can't leave, there's a lot of stress that we take on as moms when our kids- Oh, yeah are in pain. Yeah. And having running be that constant for you, that you could get out and take care of yourself and know that by going out for that run, you could then show up better for him, and I think there's so many people that can relate to that story, because I think that's what running does for so many of us. and I think that's such a beautiful piece of it that I don't think we talk about enough, because we talk about wanting to improve performance and wanting to get faster and wanting to run longer distances. but sometimes, in some areas of our life, that's what it needs to be. Like, it needs to just be that constant, and I know that you were training for a race during that time too, right? Yeah.

heather 33:25

Yeah, I was, and, I, I thought, "Okay, if I just say I'm gonna do a marathon at the end of this, this will make me, even more Yeah. I know I need to get out for my own mental health, but this is- Yeah gonna be like, you don't wanna go into a marathon not doing your long runs. you know that, okay, that's gonna be a big struggle. So I'm gonna get out the door. I'm gonna do those long runs to make this happen.

angie 33:45

Yeah.

heather 33:45

And Luke had just come out of his second surgery, and I think he was, like, the just coming out of ICU. We didn't expect him to be in ICU with all the sounds and the noises and the whistles, and I h- I told my husband, "I'm not going." And he's like, you're going. you trained for this." And I was like, "Yeah, but training for it was just really so my mental health would be, I would be okay. I wouldn't be falling apart while I'm here with Luke." And he said, "You need to do this." So this was my third marathon at the time, and so I drove from Boston to Vermont City Marathon. And, I, I don't make it into the restroom beforehand. I'm like, "Oh." I'm like, "My nerves are going," right? All these things y- you have in your mind that you're gonna do before you take off. And, I'm going fast. Wow. Faster than I've ever gone, and I'm like, "Oh, you're running for Luke, and, this is amazing." And, somewhere, around mile 16, I thought, what are you doing? Like, when you're done with this, you have to go back and take care of a little boy. And, you're doing this for your mental health. this doesn't mean that you need to try and get another PR today." And it, was a mental shift for me, and I still struggled with it down the road, like needing to get PRs and, qualify for Boston. because, my first marathon, obviously I didn't qualify for Boston. My second one, I did. I, I did. This was my third one. And I let myself, at that point in time, say, "Okay," "It's okay. You don't have to have this number or qualify for Boston again. This is not what this is. You need to be able to get back to the hospital two states away and be able to take care of this little boy, in the hotel." after we left the hospital, I had to be able to take care of him. it, I gave myself that permission, and-

angie 35:29

Yeah

heather 35:29

I even walked a little bit at the end of it, and I don't like to do that, but it's it's okay. you're still a runner. You're walking at the end. you're finishing this. he's gonna be proud of you. He doesn't care what your time is. And Angie, let me tell you, I am so glad that I did that, because when you put in those huge efforts like that, often you can't walk well for days, right? if you're doing it to your full effort, you're very sore. That's only natural.

angie 35:51

Yeah.

heather 35:51

And when I finished it, I wasn't overly sore that day, and I was so glad that I had taken that step back to be like, "Hey, what is it that you're trying to do? You did this. You're completing it. You can feel good about it, but you need to be able to go back and take care of him after this,"

angie 36:07

Yeah, and that's such a powerful mindset shift, Because I do think that we, as runners, get caught up in, okay, again, like I have to beat last time. I have to beat last. It's like that constant- chase, that constant PR, and knowing that you can do a race without having to do that- Yes can be a very freeing experience that I don't know if a lot of runners have experienced themselves.

heather 36:29

Yeah. Yeah. And it's funny. I'm sitting here thinking, Angie, my next marathon right after that, when I finished it, you were there. That happens to be, like, one that- Oh,

angie 36:37

Jacksonville?

heather 36:38

Jacksonville- Yeah that like, that Kevin was running in, and he did really well, right?

angie 36:42

so- which is funny because he did not do well for him.

heather 36:46

For him, right?

angie 36:46

Yeah.

heather 36:47

But it's all perception. That... Yeah.

angie 36:48

Yeah. that was Kevin's first marathon back after his seizures.

heather 36:52

Oh,

angie 36:53

yes. I remember. And so Kevin had, a whole thing, of just would he be ever be able to run a marathon again? And his- race started going south around mile 20, and he had to make that same mindset shift of okay, that's, the goal is not a PR, the goal is finishing a marathon again. Like a- showing myself that I- can still do this after the seizures and after, everything that he went through with that. And so he said he ran that, those last six miles with such joy, and just, encouraging other runners because- Yeah he realized that's what the marathon was about for him.

heather 37:27

Yeah. it was so beautiful, and I just have to say thank you to you, too, because at the end of that marathon, you were there. interesting how you showed up, at different times, and that was not intentional, right? I don't think we even knew that... I m- I might have known that we were gonna be there- Yeah at the same time. I don't recall. It's a number of years ago. But, with, like ICE on the sidelines, and e- every race and experience is different, and I remember that one at the end, I just had, this shooting, pain in one of my knees. And, that was, I think, another, six months after Luke's, surgery. And so it was like, "Okay, yay, you're really getting back into it now." But you could just see that look of, pain on my face, and you were like, "Hey, what can I do to help you?" Yeah. so I, I appreciate that. But- Yeah it's nice, in the running community where everybody kinda looks out for each other- and is there to support each other, too.

angie 38:13

Yeah. That's for sure. So tell us a little bit about your book. And, I w- I want, we'll tell everybody at the end of, where they can get the book and all of that stuff, but tell us a little bit about the book, and what made you want to write it?

heather 38:29

Yeah. I wanted to write the book because I think other people do the same thing sometimes too, right? I think that other people end up tying their identity to different roles, and it doesn't, or different titles, and the title doesn't have to be one for a job. We talked about, some of these here today too, right? it can be that, that mom or it can be, coach, whatever it is that you're calling yourself. We all assign certain titles to ourselves.

angie 38:53

Sure.

heather 38:54

And so you don't have to be that. So it's really figuring out, who are you when that title disappears, or who are you when that role disappears from your life, right? What are all the other things that you can do and that you're good doing? and it's also a story about resiliency, because I think sometimes we get caught up in, "Oh, why is this happening to me?" And guess what? It's not just happening to you.

angie 39:15

Yeah.

heather 39:15

We're all experiencing all of these things. and that was my other main purpose in sharing it. people have the layoff story, and people have the stories of family members going to the hospital or somebody, having a bad illness. and we all have this. It's re- what do you do with yourself after you experience it? pick yourself back up again and, try again. right now my book is sold on Amazon. It's also sold on my website, heatherlacey.com. It's called The Other Side of the Mirror: Who Are You When Your Title Disappears? And I hope people get as much out of it as I put into it.

angie 39:48

Yeah. Yeah, we'll definitely link it in the show notes below as well. when you were writing this book, did you write it originally, for yourself as kind of a healing thing for you to experience, or did you write it with someone else in mind? Like, when... who were you thinking of when you were going into the writing process?

heather 40:05

So interestingly enough, like, when I first wrote it, it was more for healing for me. Okay. I had started writing the first chapter, and I thought, "Okay, this'll help me, and this'll also help me from a credentialing standpoint," right? what's in it for myself- to be honest. That was my- Yeah initial start. I

angie 40:22

want you to be honest- Yeah. that's- because I think that's a very, that's a good reason- Yep to write a book. it's, it is- Yes credibility. It's instant credibility. I wrote a book, Like-

heather 40:30

Yeah

angie 40:30

that's awesome. Yes.

heather 40:31

Yeah, it is- Yeah awesome. And that, that was the initial intention. And then, after I shared the first couple chapters, 'cause I wanted people to read it and critique it, like what do I need to change it, people were like, "Wow, I can really relate to that. Wow, that story is really interesting to me." Yeah. And I thought, "Oh, wow." And at the same time, I had started, sharing a lot more in LinkedIn and, people on LinkedIn sharing, this is way more than just losing a job. This is people tying their identity to so many different things. Yeah. And I thought, okay, I'm really gonna push to finish this because I think this is going to help a lot of people. right now the book's only been out for, 15 days, and I've sold 210 copies, so I'm extremely excited about the traction that it's made.

angie 41:13

Awesome.

heather 41:14

And I just, I really, I'm not looking to make a ton of money off of the book, There's very little ROI in a book. For me, the beauty in it now is seeing, the message, get shared and it helping people.

angie 41:24

Yeah, that's such a beautiful thing. So is there something that you discovered about yourself or about something else, like in the process of writing the book, or something that surprised you as you put your story on paper?

heather 41:40

Yeah. so h- I'll tell you, I was at dinner, with a, a couple girls, local, like, community ladies that are super fast runners, okay? And I put them on this pedestal like they're qualifying for, for the Olympics kinda runners. And I'm, like, tying myself, like, "This is so fun. They're asking me to go. maybe it's 'cause I'm faster now," right? Like-

angie 41:57

Yeah

heather 41:58

okay, they like me because, I'm running in their groups now on, on, the stories we tell ourselves, right? Yeah. on Saturdays and Sundays. And they didn't know anything about my executive life. They have no idea. I had not told them any of that. And they don't really care, like, how fast that I can go- 'cause I can't go as fast as they can. it doesn't really matter.

angie 42:19

Yeah.

heather 42:19

And it was like, just sitting there in that conversation is you know what? They really just enjoy Heather. I can just be Heather. And so it was about authenticity, right? I think that we try to fit ourselves into some mold or box. And not everybody, but a lot of people do. It's only natural to want to be liked.

angie 42:39

Sure.

heather 42:39

And if I just tweak this little thing, maybe they'll like me. but I didn't have to do that. And so I'm really trying to live a very authentic life now and, this is who I am. This is me. this is what you get, putting myself out there. and I just, I really wanna encourage other people to do that, 'cause I know that's a real challenge sometimes for people. but people will like the real you. They don't want a watered-down version or something that you're trying to stoop up to make into something else.

angie 43:03

So true. So after you've gone through all of this, where, like what does running mean to you now? what kind of role does running fit, like, where does it fit in your life now after you've been through this whole process?

heather 43:17

Yeah. So for me running now, I'm still, chasing times. I enjoy a challenge. It's a different- Yeah reason right now. I'm not trying to chase the challenge to, oh, let me get this goal out there and, see if I can beat other people or have other people see that I'm valid as a coach. for me now, it's like, okay, can I challenge myself to run harder or stronger? and at different seasons in my life, I may not be able to do that, but I'm still running 40, 50 miles a week. I love to run. But it's also okay if I don't get to run. I used to never take a break, right? Yeah. Be like, "Oh, if I don't run, I have to make up the miles." Which is, as a coach, I always tell people that's not healthy, right? But I wasn't applying it to myself.

angie 43:59

Yeah.

heather 44:00

so i- it's nice to have grown a little bit because I don't feel that pressure to like, "Heather, get out there and run every day." practice what you preach.

angie 44:07

Yeah.

heather 44:08

what you're telling other people, you need to apply to your own running now. And it's been very freeing, Angie.

angie 44:12

That's awesome. I love it. Well- This has been such an awesome conversation. I've loved having you here. Is there anything that I haven't asked you yet that you want to make sure that we touch on before we end our conversation today?

heather 44:26

No, it's been an absolute pleasure to meet with you, and I've always in- spent, enjoyed spending time with you, and today was extra special. So thank you, Angie.

angie 44:33

Absolutely. All right, you guys. So check out Heather's new book, The Other Side of the Mirror. It's on Amazon, and we will link it in the show notes below. Thank you so much for your time and for sharing your story and Luke's story, with our listeners today. I know that people are gonna be coming away with this one, more inspired and just feeling seen also. And I think that, you sharing your story can allow other people to, see themselves in that because it's a lot of what you talked about today, I think we've all experienced on some level. And knowing that it's okay to shift who you are and kinda come back to finding who you are in different phases of your life, isn't that what life's all about? just continuing to grow and evolve, and it's okay to let go of past versions of you and evolve into the next version because we all have one life, and let's make it the best it can be. thanks for being here, Hea- Heather. This has been super fun. So you guys check all that out, and, I'll see you guys on the next episode. See you later.