Interview: Intersection Between Stuttering and ADHD with Mike Maines

Interview: Featuring individuals who are living their best life, doing what they love to do, and doing it no matter — while navigating life with a stutter.

In this episode, we’re talking to Mike Maines, a residential designer with many talents who shares his insights and experiences between two challenging worlds — stuttering and ADHD.

Links

What’s Your Stutter Personality? Take the quiz to find out! https://www.thehappystutterer.com/quiz/

Recovery from Stuttering Relapse: Coaching solutions with Paige
https://www.thehappystutterer.com/services/

Website: Learn more https://www.thehappystutterer.com/

Instagram: Follow here https://www.instagram.com/thehappystutterer/

Transcript

Hey, listeners, I'm doing something different in this episode. I'm doing an interview. This is the first of many interviews that I plan to do moving forward in bringing you these interviews. I'll be featuring individuals who are living their best life, doing what they love to do, and doing it no matter what, even while navigating the challenges of having a stutter. And sometimes there is another level of complexity involved, such as A DHD, which is our focus in this episode. I'd like to introduce you to my first special guest, Mike Mains. Mike is a residential de designer and he owns a small business designing new homes and renovations. What makes his work stand out is that his designs are environmentally responsible and healthy for the people that live there. Mike is also the author of many magazine articles on Home Design and Construction. He co-wrote a hot selling book on an Amazon called Pretty Good House, A Guide to Creating Better Homes. And to add to all of this, Mike, also co-host a Poplar Zoom based talk show about building science called BSS and Beer. Mike has stuttered since childhood and lives in the central main town of Palermo where he lives with his wife on an old farm. Mike, I'm so happy you're here. Welcome to the show.

Hi. Hi, Paige. Thanks for having me. I'm really happy to be here today.

Yeah. Well this is fantastic. I'm so happy that you're able to come on. So, as you know, this show is mainly focused on, on stuttering, but today we're looking through the additional lens of A DHD. Everyone knows the term, but how do you describe A DHD and what is your experience with it?

The official description is attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. used to just be attention deficit disorder. I and a lot of people who struggle with it think that is not . Really an accurate term. I think a more accurate term is attention regulation disorder. A lot of us, including me, aren't really hyperactive. I do sort of tap and fidget constantly, but, my, my type is called the inattentive type, which just means it, it can be hard to pay attention. My mind wanders really easily. There's always a lot going on in my brain.

Yeah. So you mentioned attention regulation DI disorder. That's a term I'm not really familiar with. Would you, would you be able to tell us more about that?

Yeah. that's not a term in the, in the DSM, the the, uh, in, in, in the mental health diagnosis book. It's, it's more of a, a description of what it actually feels like. We can those of us with A DHD can, can focus just fine if something is really interesting or really catches our attention or if there's an emergency or something is really novel and yeah. But on the other hand, if it's something that we're not so interested in or that we don't want to do, or sometimes, for no, no reason, reason at all, we may just not, not be able to do the thing that needs to be done. So it's, it's, it's an inability to, . Properly apply, focus as, as most people do, as as, as, as, as the average person can do.

One, one challenge is enough. And then adding another one, that must have been very difficult. Not knowing that this added layer of the A DHD that you weren't really aware of it. brings me to a, to a stat that I found where it said Research done by Roche. Tar and Cohen 1998, they estimated that as many as 45% of children with a DHD have some form of speech and language impairment. Interesting enough mean, I educate myself and I read a lot of books and I have read up on a DHD, and I've noticed that not a single book mentions stuttering.

I think for me, I mean I've, I've, I've stuttered, I've stuttered since I was a kid with varying levels of severity. I've been relatively fluent at times. Right now I'm kind of in a low point on stuttering. And I've also had a DHD since I was a kid, which I didn't. No, until I was in my twenties, I was first diagnosed. at first I did, didn't believe it, but after, after 20 or 30 years of, of researching it, now I am convinced that it is a, thing I struggle with parallel to stuttering and as annoying as stuttering is, I think the A DHD is actually a harder thing in terms of of, of getting by in everyday life. I have uh, learned that, that both, both problems show up on brain scans as abnormal activity in the left frontal cortex or prefrontal cortex. I, I forget, I'm not a neuro, I'm not a neurologist. I Think of both as being mis wired. . for me at least, stuttering often feels like my brain is outrunning my mouth. that is also what a DHD feels like. My brain or in, in, in the brains of, of most people with A DHD are, are very fast and active. There's a lot going on. There's sort of no. No pauses or breaks in there. It's always, or always at least one conversation in my head, and often a couple and often a couple of radio stations playing a little bit out of tune. I think, I think another similarity that that I wonder if it's connected or that that ties, things together. Is a, , a symptom of A DH. D is called RSD Rejection, sensitivity Dysphoria is very weird to experience. But it's basically an an irrationally large response to a perceived slight, which can be all kinds of different things. But you know, as a kid growing up with a stutter, you know, I was, I was slighted now and then, the A DHD, it can be really hard to pay attention in class. Like I was, I was a relatively smart kid, but not the best student because I would just daydream all day long. And then when I was called on, I'd either stutter or not know what the teacher had said. So they sort of . So sort of feed on each other And I think, I think, I think they're also both related tos. Something I've heard, heard you talk about called the highly sensitive person, where you sort of, you, you're, you're more . Aware of feedback and information from outside and other people, and textures and, and just, to me, they're all, it's, it's not like one disease or something like that. It's just that these are all the, the HHSP, the highly sensitive person and the A DHD and the stuttering ologist things that make me, you know, neuros spicy is, is, is the trendy term, which I, or which I like. From what I understand about A DHD, from the research I've done, it's not like it's one disease. Like, or like, boom, you have this. It's more like there's a collection of things. It's sort of like autism. Like there's, there's this, this whole list of possible traits or symptoms or mannerisms. And if you have enough, enough of them, and if it impacts your life enough, it's considered a disorder. But if you don't have enough, then you're just considered a little bit odd, like, . Or where the line is. But I've, I've had multiple people diagnose me as a DHD, not as autistic, although I have autistic traits and obviously I stutter.

So it sounds like a lot is definitely going on in the A DHD and stuttering brain. us more about how A DHD affects you, , on a daily basis.

 I, I, I would say impacts e every aspect of, of daily life, but it's normal for me. So I don't really know what it's like to not have a DHD and, and, and I often say a DD, just, it's easier than a DHD. And as an A DHD person, I like doing everything fast, which is also be bad for stuttering. Like, like one of the classic speech therapy things. It speak slowly and. With A-D-H-D-I wanna do everything twice as fast as, as I should. So that's, that's not, it's, it is sort of mutually ,  bbu builds on each other. and like I said before, it is literally like, there's always or multiple conversations going on in my head. Unless there's something that really catches my attention, and that's, that's an example of the A-D-H-D-D superpower. It's called hyperfocus. I do that a lot with my work. Like if, or most of my work is kind of mundane and it's really hard to make myself do it. But other aspects are really fun and challenging and I get right into it and I can can go two or three hours totally in a zone really easily. I. When it's interesting when it's not interesting, like, like when I have to do billing or deal with an unhappy client or do some mundane drawing task, I can, I can procrastinate that really, really well. it's not, it's, it's not that I don't want to do it. it is stuff that I know I need to do. It's on my to-do list. I know it has to get done. It's just, it's, it's really hard to actually get it. It's, it's really hard to act, actually do the work. I recently heard something that really resonated for me that although A DHD is called a mental illness and it tends to run in families, it's not actually a disease or heritable, it's, it's a trauma response. So when we're stressed, we have the fight or flight response or. Or really the fight, flight or freeze response. But, but what happens when, when, when none of those are actually options? Is, is that you, you tune out. So if your family situation is stressful as a young child uh, options do you have? Except, except to go, go somewhere else else in your brain? And, and when, when that, that, that ha happens at a young age, it gets hardwired the same way that stuttering becomes hardwired. And, and once it's wired you can't I can't outgrow it. You always have it. You can learn how to manage it, but it's, that's, that's, that's just how your brain works. 

So we don't always outgrow stuttering and there is no cure for stuttering. I've read that while you can't outgrow A DHD, it's possible that treatment can help and manage the symptoms Mike, in your opinion is there, is there a cure or a a ways to manage, A DHD?

As, as far as I know, the, the. There, there is, is no cure, but there are definitely ways to manage it. and as with, with stuttering, they take constant effort, , or most people speak effortlessly. And, and for, for people who stutter in many cases, it just, it takes a lot of effort and energy to speak. Th there's, a description or there's, there's a, there's an analogy for, for, for what it's like to have everyday things like stuttering or, or a DHD require effort is, is called spoons. Have you heard of the Spoons theory? was developed somebody said I think, I think it was a woman was describing it to her friend. who just didn't, didn't understand why things were hard. And she said, imagine you start out your day at a table and in front of you, our six spoons. And over the course of the day, anything you do, takes, takes, takes a spoon or half a spoon. So like getting outta bed takes half a spoon taking a shower and, and having breakfast takes half a spoon  or maybe getting to work and dealing with your boss and all those things. Take a few spoons by the time you, you. Get ho home. At the end of the day, you're probably outta spoons, but you, but you still have to take care of your kids or do the dishes or whatever. So then you're borrowing spoons from the next day that you don't even have yet, and then the next day you're starting with a spoon deficit. And I think about that a lot, both with A DHD and with stuttering. . That, like, when things are going smoothly, it's easy, but as soon as things start getting hard the spoons get used up. And once the spoons are used up, then it's really hard. Or just they're, or if they don't make spoons, you can't just, just just go buy spoons. But the average person, the, the people who, who, who, who aren't, aren't neuros spicy can get outta bed and get to work and get through half their day, maybe using one spoon. And they, and they may, and they may even get a spoon if they do something, you know, rewarding. Whereas DHD, you don't have the with the reward chemical, serotonin and dopamine are basically in deficit. And so just, you literally use up the energy and you don't get it back. You don't get re. You don't feel rewarded when you complete a task or as much as an average person. So just that's a, And, and, and there are definitely things can do to help replenish your spoons, you know, such as eating well, having a good diet, exercising not. Staying up too late, things like that, what what does help me with both A DHD and stuttering is, is exercise and generally being active. I kind of picture it like, like there's a ball of energy inside of me and if I don't, don't. Don't get out and give it attention, dissipate it, then it balls up and, and, and ends up in my throat and chest and I can't talk, or it makes me anxious or, or unable to get things  done. So exercise and, and a good diet are, are really important. 

It's no small feat to navigate the world with both the stutter and the side effects and impact of having a DHD. Mike, what advice do you have for someone who stutters with a DHD?

My, my philosophy is to, to, to do, do my best, to, to not let either of those prevent me from doing what I want to do. That, that can be e easier said that than done, but it's how I do things. example, I never really intended to be the host of a talk show. It really just sort of happened. . . But it, and, and it's definitely stressful to talk to experts in my field in front of a hundred or more live audience people and, and knowing hundreds or thousands more will watch the replay on Zoom. But it's, it's rewarding. And, and, and peop people are, are, are nothing but supportive. I'm, I'm self-employed and, and, and, and have to sell myself to clients who are undertaking these very expensive projects. They come with a lot of stress and emotion and I need to be able to handle all of that, which uh, some days I'd like to just not, not have to deal with it, but it's, it, it's what I set out to do. So I, so I really try not to let a DHD or stuttering stop me from doing those things that, that I want to do. think, I think, oh. Overall, you can definitely have a successful and productive life. You just need to really focus on your, your, your unique qualities and, and consider getting help for, for anything that, that you may feel is holding you back. 

We've come to the, to the end of our time here. And so Mike, I really wanna say thank you for coming on, sharing your story and, giving us insight into A DHD and how that impacts your life. it sounds like, you know, you're doing amazing things. You have your own a business. You, you are an author and you have these successful books. So hats off to you for living your best life and, and doing what you love to do and doing it no matter what.

Thank you very much PP Paige. It was really nice to talk with you today.