Born Scrappy
This is the podcast for scrap metal traders and operators who want to get sharper without losing their scrappy edge.
Born Scrappy
Repurposing the Narrative with John Sacco
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In this week’s episode I chat with John Sacco, former President of Sierra International and former Chairman of ReMA. John has been one of the most influential voices in the recycling industry for decades, helping shape both the culture of Sierra and the broader narrative of our industry.
After recently transitioning out of the business he helped build, John reflects on what comes next and why he’s still deeply committed to pushing the recycling industry forward. From brand building to industry storytelling, this conversation is a masterclass on how recyclers can reshape the way the world sees what we do.
John shares the story behind building one of the most recognizable brands in the industry and explains why changing the narrative around recycling is more important than ever.
In this episode, we talk about:
👉 Tell your story with your phone
👉 Changing recycling’s narrative
👉 Social media winners & losers
👉 Community initiatives matter
👉 Consistency over perfection
👉 Your yard is content
👉 And more!
If you care about how your company is perceived by customers, your community, and the next generation, this conversation might change how you think about brand in our industry.
Born Scrappy.
Brought to you by Buddy.
The only marketplace and trade OS built for scrappies, by scrappies.
https://www.tradebuddy.io/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/tradewithbuddy/
WHO IS STU KAGAN ANYWAYS?
27 years in the metal recycling game and still learning and growing…
I learnt from the best and worked my way up from yard labourer to Executive Director of Trading and Operations for the largest metal recycler in sub-Saharan Africa. Responsible for 4,500 employees, 85 sites, and the overall profitability of a multi-billion dollar operation.
I brought my breadth and depth of knowledge to bear and co-founded the fastest growing, most-loved, and most awarded metal recycling company in New Zealand.
I thought it was time that tech worked for our industry, so I built THE killer scrap app, Buddy - built for scrappies, by scrappies.
Father of two crazy-awesome boys. Husband to Lisa. Kids rugby coach. YPO member. Founder. Lifelong learner. Mentee. Mentor. Committed Stoic. Aspiring cowboy.
COME SAY HI ON LINKEDIN
https://www.linkedin.com/in/stukagan/
John Returns
Next Chapter... Consulting
Changing the Industry Narrative
Brand Building Masterclass
The Social Media Aha
Overcoming Naysayers
First Sales Proof
Viral Wins & Flops
Consistency Over Ego
Brand Pride Fuels Culture
Small Yards Can Build Brands
Community First Not Just Digital
No Budget? Start Small
Simple Ideas for Content
A Thousand Stories
Thanks to John
The scrap metal recycling industry has always run on hustle, trust, and sharp instincts. This is the podcast for traders and operators who want to get sharper without losing their scrappy edge. I'm Stu Kagan. Bringing you insights and stories from the people shaping the future of our industry. This is born scrappy. John Sako, am I excited to have you on my show again? Wow, welcome. It's good to be here. Good to be here. Stuart. John, welcome again to Born Scrappy. I think we've done live twice, once recorded. Um, but it's a whole, this is a different era. It's a different era for. John Zko. It's a different era for Sierra. It's a different era for me. I'm doing all master classes at the moment. Things are changing, so I'm excited to delve in. John, how are you feeling? I'm feeling pretty amazing right now. Uh, yeah, I, I feel really good. It's, it is kind of strange, but I feel fantastic. I didn't know how good I was gonna feel. You know, we all consider ourselves your friends, so that's fantastic to hear. Just, um, update everybody kind of where you are, um, with all the movements at the company, the family, all that sort of stuff. Tell us what's going on. Okay, so at the end of the year, um, I sold my interest in the Sierra companies to my nephew, uh, Philip. We call him little Phil, so he's always gonna be little Phil to Little Phil and the company stays within the family. I can't tell you how many people that I've talked to within the company and outside the company said to me, thank God you kept it in the family and you didn't sell it to some private equity group. I, you know, it, it's a great transition for me on a personal level. The core culture is in place. You know, there's always gonna be changes. I mean, let's face it. Uh, but I think the core competency of the company. Its culture remains and it moves forward. And so that happened at the very end of December. So here we are in, uh, 2026 and, you know, I'm staying on for a year, uh, to help advise my nephew to talk to a lot of relationships that I have because, you know, in the end, we're still a family and my nephew and my brother, they're my family. And, uh, you know, it worked out for me and it worked out for them. So everybody wins here. So it's a win-win situation. Uh, it took people by surprise that, that's for sure. They didn't see it happening like this, but you know, it happened and it's okay. I'm fine. It's great. The company's great. So like I say, everybody wins. Look, we've been speaking over the last few weeks and you know what you say now while being recorded is the exact same thing you say on the phone to me. You know you're feeling in a great place right now. You're excited for the future. Let's get a little idea, um, of what that future might look like. You've handed over the rates. I just wanna say something. If you are ever selling a company again with a brand like Sierra that you built. Please put me on the list to offer it to, because that brand, that Sierra brand, has to be the best brand in the industry, um, that I've ever seen. And it's exactly why we've brought you here to talk about repurposing the narrative for the businesses that are listening. But what does the next stage look like, John? Well, the next stage just look, like I said, I, I still got, um, you know, February is half over, so there's. You know, I'm a, uh, write out the year with Sierra and I don't wanna say, just write out, look, my nephew and I talk 10 times a day and, uh, we go through a lot of different things that I did that he didn't do and didn't know. I don't wanna say he seeks advice as if he doesn't know what he's doing. He'll have something come up and he wants a sounding board and. Because he has really great instincts and because he knows what he's doing, uh, it's fine. And so I'm doing that and with a smile on my face, it's not begrudgingly. No, I feel good about it. And uh, but the next step for me is. Later this year I'm gonna be launching JBS Strategic Consulting, where I'm bringing people together, bringing concepts to, uh, industry leaders in their companies, company, uh, higher ups about alignment in their brand build. I'm not gonna be a. Social media poster. That's not what I'm doing. I'm going to be bringing people together. Uh, and, and I've done that already, um, by bringing people to see something that is quite unique. I don't really wanna disclose that, but there's a lot of things out there that I know people I know and things that I see from different perspective that I'm gonna bring people together. And it doesn't have to be the recycled materials industry alone. Yes. That's where my greatest contacts are. That's where my most of my friends are. It's interesting having conversations with a lot of different people already, uh, wanted me to help them in identifying their misalignment from ownership to the different branches that they may have. You know, there is no real alignment with their brand and there's no real alignment with, well, what is the marketing, who are they marketing to? And you got all these branches. So there's a lot of things that. I love doing and uh, it doesn't feel like work. And God, you know, the old cliche, if you love what you do, you'll never work a day in your life. And I think that's where I'm gonna be.'cause I'm not choosing to work with people I don't wanna work with. Yeah, that's awesome. And if you think about it, the overlap of brand building through other industries, you're absolutely not pigeonholed. There's nothing that's keeping you in the material recycling industry. You are able to build this muscle in this industry. Exactly what you've done here, you could do and assist companies in almost any industry. Because what we are gonna talk about today is, is about the narrative and it's about taking a business and, you know, starting and how do you get your brand out there and building that brand. It doesn't have to be in our industry. Yes, a lot of the topics will be about our industry, but, but you've learned, can be rolled across any industry. Well, I, I feel that way. I, I honestly believe that. But look, you know, just because I'm not an owner. Sierra anymore doesn't mean I don't love the recycled materials industry. I do. Uh, having been a past chairman of, uh, ISRI, now Rima, I'm staying involved because a, I enjoy the people look, I have so many friends and to disappear would be disappearing from people I really. Respect and enjoy being with. So, uh, I'm gonna be there, I'm going to be in Las Vegas at the, the REMA Convention. I'm going to be at the BIR in Gothenburg, Sweden. Why? Because I have so many relations and I'm not going there to be brand building for me in as much as I'm going to make sure I stay connected to the people and truly help this industry, especially here in America. Over in the eu, get out from behind being called waste. I, that may never change, but we can change that narrative and how we talk about our industry is still vitally important to me because, and I've said this so many times, there's no industry more vital than our industry. It's the most vital industry in the world. Because without us, you don't have healthcare, education, industry, military. Without us, none of it happens. Okay. So I still think there's a lot of work. Well, no, I don't think, I know there's a tremendous amount of work still to be done in our industry. So, uh, hopefully it continues in, in a good way. You know, I, I'm here. Look, we're all excited that you aren't leaving, uh, the industry and you'll be at all the events and it makes us happy. So, uh, let's jump into, I guess, the topic for today. So what we are doing in the season has been master classes on certain topics instead of just general conversations. We, we really try and get deep and now we're gonna talk about exactly what we've just been about building that brand. Building that narrative, and not only for the industry, and of course that's important, but let's talk about it tactically. Like using a brand for marketing purposes, using a brand to, to land new business, to get new customers, to have customers feel and emotion to towards your business, right? It's one of the hardest things you do and it takes so much time and so much effort, but the outcome is just absolutely massive. And you guys proved that with Sierra, I mean. To be honest with you, um, not only do I hear amazing things whenever I'm walking around all the different yards, but I only have amazing things to say about the company as well. And that's purely because of the brand.'cause I haven't used one of your pieces of equipment for 10, 15 years. So, but you've been to our facility in Bakersfield, so we practiced what we preached, you know, the brand, you know, there's so much behind it. So, you know, I, I won't say, you know, ramble. I'll answer your specific questions as best as I can. So let's understand, uh, we don't have to go long into how it all started, but just tell me, was there like a aha moment where you were running your business and you were like, number one, we need to fix this industry or the way that it's seen, and number two, this will be really beneficial for the company. When I found out using this cell phone and social media was free, right? My first thing that I did was, is I. Did a video of me going, we do what you do every day. And I had a friend reach out and goes, that is genius. What ad agency did you use? I said, I just, my rights. Um, so I always have had a creative mind towards this. Um, and until I understood the power of social media, I was against it. I thought it was just for kids. Instagram was for kids. Um. Didn't know what LinkedIn was, and once I finally grasped what it can do, then I understood how easy it is to do things. And that's how it all started for me, is with knowing that just with a cell phone, with a simple point click and a message you can get out there and it doesn't cost you anything. That's how it all started with me. And I mean, you think about it, you said something that just made me think about what my wife Lisa used to say to us. And when we were building our company, building a brand from scratch in New Zealand, while we were doing all this posting, it was still kind of early days to be doing it. She wanted to start putting out our prices on Facebook. And I was like, no, you know, metal recyclers never do that. That's, that's like telling our opposition what we are paying and now they're gonna go pay higher prices. So I said to her, we can't do that because. All that's gonna happen is the other yards down the road are gonna go and beat our prices. And her response was, but who are they going to tell? What she means by that is if you are not on social media, and I am, I'm getting out to thousands of people, you might have two people phone you. I can sell a thousand people what my prices, and if people like that, they're coming into me, you might be able to sell two people. You know, there, there was an old joke I used to say on our demolition side of our business, we're the best kept secret out there. And a lot of people are the best kept secret. And I understand and respect. Look, this industry has some old habits. You know, you don't talk about what you do. You're in the junk business. You make it as unsexy as possible. You don't get out there, you, you, you just don't do things in a flashy way because that's how, mm-hmm. The forefathers of this industry always approached it, and yet, if you look at the success and the families that they've raised on, quote unquote being in a junk business, uh, it was quite amazing. But today, I, I think sticking your head in the sand and not telling the story in your local community of who you are, what you are or what you want to do, you just become unknown. People go to those who they don't. I mean, brand build is important. You know, do we really need to look at Coca-Cola and Nike to truly understand what a brand build is? They do it every day, so can't we take a page? We're not gonna spend their kind of money. But like I said, with this cell. Its capacity to take a photo, a video, and a message, and put it online to communities, through Facebook, through Instagram, through TikTok, through LinkedIn. You can reach people far greater than you could ever before, and I think that's just the basic opportunity that exists. So a lot of people don't want to start because people are like, oh, what are people gonna say? When I start taking photos of me in a yard and I'm like, click, click. What did people say to you in the beginning? You know, you said the one guy Ji, and it was like, oh, that's brilliant. Who did this for you? But were there naysayers? The majority of my own company at the time were the naysayers. Not that against it.'cause it was just too radical. It was too new. Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, but so to, to your point, you go, if you wanna put it out there, what would I say to them? Look, a lot of people don't like being in front of a camera. Okay, that's fine. But the message of your company, a picture of a clean truck. Can go out there, a picture of a roll-off bin full or a dumping of something, or a picture of the scale house people working, or your employees, your hardworking employees. Get them out there, people like that. And so if you don't wanna be in front of the camera, fine, you know, in your facility, it's like the biggest Hollywood set of all time. You can find something interesting, any and everywhere you can. So true. That is so true. I mean there is so much good content running around our yard. It it's wild if you can't find somebody to take a photo of or take a video of. When was there a time that you said to yourself,'cause in the beginning you would've gone, I believe I have an opportunity here. I enjoy this, I think I could be good at this and I think this could be good for the company. When did you say it is good for the company? Look, that just happened. So when was there like something that commercially. Well, I it, right? It was an actual sell of a piece of equipment that was posted and, um, customer called and goes, that's the exact machine I need. They bought it, and then it was like the floodgates. It was like, okay, there's more. And then of course, you know, it evolves like anything else. Um. The market will tell you what they like. So you can't do the same thing over and over. You know, I experimented with so many different things. Uh, some things worked, some things just didn't work. But in the end, it's being fresh and always having something new to put out there and people like that. People in your community like it? Hmm. What, what worked surprisingly and what Surprisingly flopped. Well, because you did touch on that. Yeah. You know, we had a lot of things that worked. I mean, a tremendous amount of things that worked. I mean, the Godfather one where, where I, that was the, you know, here it was actually filmed right here where I'm sitting, when I went. You come in the day and my daughter's like, ask me to recycle. Well, that was, that was filmed here now. That was huge that, that, and it was so much fun doing, I think, I think that's when everybody learned that you actually have a talent though. We were like, we just thought you just messed around. We were like, hold on. That was actually really good. And then you had all the other ones come out, all the other movie scenes come out from the Yeah, we did a lot of, you know what I did? The, uh, the val, you know, he just passed away. From, uh, uh, apocalypse Now. I love the smell of they pump. I love the smell of recycling in the morning. Smells like money, so you know, those things. The Godfather was one of the biggest hits, but the biggest one. That was the craziest one, that it was the throwaway post. It was about three super bowls ago. We had a pizza box commercial, and we filmed this pizza box commercial, and we did it for like four years in a row. And I put it out on Saturday. I reposted it'cause our company put it out on Saturday. So I reposted it on Saturday, had a thousand views, impressions on LinkedIn. So on Super Bowl Sunday I'm sitting there, what do I do? Ah, I'll just post it myself. Thing on LinkedIn went beyond viral. There was 78 to 80,000 impressions. It was watched for. Look, it was a one minute spot that we did, and it was watched for 80 something hours. Comments were, and I called it a throwaway post. I just threw it out there. Ah, I did it yesterday. I'll do it again. And that went crazy. And. That on LinkedIn was probably the most surprising thing that ever happened, but, and it was a pizza box commercial. And then the funny thing about a pizza box commercial, and I think, I guess it, there was tension with the pizza box. Oh, we can't recycle it. It's not recyclable. The green, everyone knows that it's very recyclable and the paper companies, uh, PRT and WestRock, they all say, Hey. We take pizza boxes and they put it out there and, uh, you know, Domino's Pizza has on the top of their box do your piece and, uh, recycle. So, uh, yeah, that was the, the biggest surprise. Now the biggest f flop, you know,'cause sometimes you put effort into something, you're like, I'm gonna do this. It's a great idea. And you use content and you've got your team and they build something and maybe they use AI or whatever. The re the recycling rescue team where we recycled the. The defenseless water heater from uh uh, I remember it and he spoke. My wife loved it. That was her favorite. That was hilarious for the general market, but it was so cute. There was a lot of cute ones that didn't blow up that I thought that would do great. But I mean, I'm sure there's others, but see, that was the one thing I always knew, and this is what's important. I, and I tell this to anybody who gets out there who wants to make a presence, you'll have winners that you won't even think will be winners and you are gonna have losers that you are absolutely. Now I got it. Now I know The one, the absolute flop that I thought for sure was going to be the biggest one. We did this one where we took a, a bale coming out of one of our shear bayers and we did the um, uh, revolution by the Beatles. We put the music on it and I thought that thing was gonna go epic. It, I don't even think it got a hundred views. I don't even think I saw it. Yeah, it was early. It was early on, but, right. You know, like I say, you're gonna have winners, losers, you're gonna have unexpected winners. And unexpected losers. Don't take it too serious and don't let it get under your skin. Uh, because if you start reading your own reviews, you, you'll stop. Yeah, exactly. Right. You know, if you take it on one bad pose or something like again, and you stop doing it, you know, that's a, a fatal flaw. It's about consistency. Keeps showing up. Build that brand up over time. It's not gonna happen overnight. You spend a lot of time around these metal recycling facilities. Can you kind of see early on when you're in one of these companies, like who is actually focused on brand and who isn't? And if so, like is there any differential that you can see? In general, I would tell you brand build an image isn't even in the thought of the majority of people that I've been into. Uh, they're focused on, you know, their operations. They're focused on buying material, right? Selling material. And, uh, I think that's smart. I mean, you, you gotta keep your eye eye on the ball because that's what pays the bills, right? Sure. Uh, sometimes with branding and marketing, you can't really grasp the ROI on it because you just don't know. How many people come in because of it. You don't know how many people let you buy their new material. It's really hard to put a, a finger on it. And I think most people, I think that's their biggest hurdle is'cause they just, they don't see a benefit in it. I can understand that, but I think there's a huge benefit. There are other benefits than just having people bring material into it is the brand of why should somebody go to work for. A junkyard. That's what I was gonna say. Yeah. Well, if you don't make it somewhat sexy, if you will, how do you track a talent? You know, and I think that's really missed, but I, it's, it's hard. So the question you ask, what do I see? I, I don't see a lot of people doing it, or when I was in those yards over the last few years, I see some people wanting to do it. I see a lot of hesitation. A lot of people don't wanna be in front of a camera, and so, but John, what would you, what would you say then if I said to you that I think, and I do have this personal belief, that brand building affects culture? Yeah, a hundred percent. When you build a brand and then your employees within the company understand what it is you're doing. The culture builds within, you know, not only was Sierra branded, if you will, with all the content that we created, but take the forklifts. You know, I posted this book, I remember them well. I was there, John, I was there. I remember those forklifts very well. The brand build of Sierra Recycling and Demolition, the Sierra companies was part of the pieces of the puzzles. There's so many pieces of the puzzles that we maintain our equipment. At a standard that makes our facility look the most professional you can be. I'm not saying we were the most or we are. I'm just saying it. The images that you are the one of the most professional you can be. Well, when, when your employees see that and they finally grasp what we're trying to do, they themselves become part of the culture of this is how we do it. Exactly. This is how we do it. Right. They become proud of. The brand because they're proud of what it represents. And I think that was the biggest win. That was one of the biggest wins, especially in my service department and the company as a whole. But the service department. All those technicians going out in the field, putting machines together. And so many of them would get asked, come on, your forklifts really aren't that nice. And they go, oh, they really are. And uh, Don do it. We really don't sweep your yard. Yeah, we sweep our yard. Yeah, we do. You really don't have dirt. It's not old black cotton's con It is. And what happens is, is. They felt it. And when they told that story, the culture builds within the brand and it becomes its own machine. It feeds upon itself, and that's the biggest benefit of the brand build was I think of the motivation and the pride that the employees took from it. And one last thing that I'll say, repurpose season one. I cannot tell you how many employees I had employees from other companies did not know what happened with the material they were processing, sorting it. They didn't realize it was their car, didn't realize it was their bridge, their hospitals, et cetera, et cetera. Boy, I tell you man, there's some light bulbs that went off like that for employees that they felt part of one of the best, most vital and environmentally green industries there is. So that's what we're probably one of the most watched shows in my house because every time somebody comes over for a dinner and they want to understand more about our industry. I'm like, do I have to tell you? Or can we just watch a half an hour of the show quickly? Literally, it's like always episode one. I'm like, just watch this. What episode are you showing? I wanna know what, what, what are you showing? Number one. Number one. Every single time. Number one.'cause I think it gives them a grasp straightaway. Season one, episode one. I feel like you go into what the industry actually is all about in that one, right? Think if you have to watch anyone, that's probably the one. Cool. But you touched on one thing. You used one word, which is the number one thing I was thinking of, which was pride. And when I talk about building a brand, I talk about something people can be proud of, something people can feel a part of, and that's where your culture comes. There's um, the head sports psychologist for the all black rugby team during the period where they went undefeated for many years, they were a dynasty. And he always spoke about how the number one thing that made them as good as they were, was that they felt like they were a part of something bigger. They were a part of something bigger than just themselves as an individual. And he was always like, that's how you build a culture. And I think if you built a brand and people can see that they're a part of something so big, having such an incredible impact, that's where you get an incredible culture. And I think people don't necessarily see those benefits when they look at the return on investment on brand building. Well, I, I would agree a hundred percent, and I was going to use a sports analogy. As well. People always want to be, look, Sunday we just had the Super Bowl, and you have all those people who are wearing their Seahawks jerseys and you had all those people wearing their patriot jerseys. Dave Point, you know, he was all decked out in his, you know, Patriot gear, right. They identify, that's their team. They wanna be a champion. Right? And if your employees feel that the company they work for, they're champions and they are part of a championship team. To be part of that. You knew you had to be a something special, but you also had a discipline and you had to meet a criteria to stay on those teams. You just didn't show up and start dogging it. You showed up and you had to improve. You showed up. You had to be part of a team, and I think that's identical analogy. To companies today, and there's a lot of companies who are doing that, and that I see is probably building the culture within, more so than building the brand to the outside. They're building it within it, and I see a lot of positive things happening with that. People like to come in and put that uniform on that says Exactly X, y, Z recycling Exactly. Or whatever it is. No, I got you. What would you say to somebody that says, you know, I don't have time for this kind of thing. I'm too busy out there running a business, or I'm just a small yard. No one cares about my story.'cause I can hear people listening to this going, this isn't for me because I'm a small yard, or this isn't for me because I'm an owner operator. I don't have time like other people. I would say to you if your community that you have your operation in matter. If you feel that community has a place for you and you wanna be part of it, you have to be part of it. And you don't have to be a national brand, but you have to be a brand. Maybe it's small town America that you're in. If you become the brand of the recycle, you become the people people go to, not only to get ideas. How do we do this? How do we recycle this and how do we, you know, you become the brand of the community. And when you say you don't have time for it, it doesn't take a lot of time. It just takes a little bit of creativity. There's going to be somebody within your organization. There's going to be somebody within your family who works there. Somebody's gonna know a little bit about. The socials or to be able to be part of, you want to sponsor the little league season and you wanna get out there and you wanna throw the opening day barbecue and you wanna put your company name out there. Well, that's no different than making a post. But if you want your community to respect you as a business person, to respect you business as a top priority of the community, you gotta do something. And some people think, well, I don't want to be online. Fine. But you gotta do something, right? It isn't always about being on the socials that you have to be on. You have to be doing something within your community, setting yourself apart as a leader of the community. And that's a brand build in its own right. So it comes in so many different ways, and it isn't just because I did it with a camera and that's what I did. I did it with a lot of photographs, a lot of videos, you know. That's how I did it. Okay, fine. But that doesn't mean that's the end all, be all. Being part of your community and being in it and helping those kids on little League or whatever it might be, whatever that looks like, feeding the homeless, I don't care what it is. If you wanna be part of the community and respected and not being, you know. Looked at as a plight on the community. You're involved doing those little things. So Stuart, it could be those little things that really help along with, of course, being out there on all the socials. Does that make sense? And I mean, yeah, it's, it's exactly right. When we are talking about building a brand, we are not talking about building a digital brand only. Of course, I believe strongly that if, you know, don't have a digital brand the next five to 10 years, it's gonna be very difficult for you to have a business. But what we talking about is start somewhere, get that brand out there, like start spreading the love, you know, spread your name out there, doing the correct things. I mean, you'll be seen, you'll be noticed, and you'll be, as you say, seen as a standup part of the community. And, and I think one of the best ways you can be a stand out in the community is how you represent your facility now. Mm-hmm. I personally believe that you have to be clean. You have to look professional. Your facility must resemble a professional recycling facility and not a waste facility, and not trash, not garbage, not junk. If you want to do something right from the start and you don't wanna do branding, you wanna do all this stuff, start there. Make the outside of your business look. Worthy of a place you would want people to enter. Okay. That's your first thing. I think Terry Adams, I think Terry said to George, when we drive up to the yard, we need to be proud that that is our yard. On the way in, it's not when we are in there or when we are looking at the accounts. Literally when you drive up to that yard, you need to be proud of it. And then George tells a story about how he planted trees once outside the one yard and came back the next morning. They'd all been stolen, so they had to hire security to, to guard the trees for like a couple weeks I think it was. So they, they're doing it. You should all be doing it. Yeah, you know, there's a lot of facilities in some not so great areas in the communities. And look, America is big, big cities are big, uh, small cities are big in their own right, so make it look good, make it look proud that your employees become proud to go there, and that's your first brand build. It's what your people see and what the community sees when they see your facility. If you can make people proud that you're there in the community. You're Brandy John, what do I do if I am second or third generation? I'm bigger than the guys I spoke about earlier that are like, I don't have time. I'm all work on the business. I'm strategy, but I'm still inside the company. I'm still doing stuff in the company, in the yards, et cetera, and I have no marketing budget. I've never had one. My grandfather never had one. It's just not been a part of the business. Where do I start now? Do I,'cause everybody thinks I need to go hire an agency, right? They're like, well, I mean, that's how you start. What are your thoughts on that? Well, you know, agencies have their purpose, and I don't wanna put them down. There's somebody within your company that knows the digital game today. There's somebody in your company that has a concept. Now, as the owners, they may not want to deal with it, but every owner of every company has a direction, has something that is their core belief that they try to get across to their employees, and they want to get out to the community. They want to get out to the customers. Just because you're the owner, you don't necessarily have to be the face. Have those core beliefs out there. So where do you start? You start with somebody. Somebody's gotta know something within your company, how to do it. Start small. Like I said, I think going back to what I said is if you don't wanna be on the socials, fine, but you've got to be in the community and I think that that's where you start. You start where it's the easiest entry point. For your comfort level, and if that is being bigger part of the community, uh, fine. If it's getting out there on socials, you found somebody who knows how to do it and you wanna try it and you wanna dabble, you start. It's like, how do you eat elephant? One bite at a time. You have to take that first bite and you have to take that first bite. Of building your brand and that community, and what does that look like? It's can be a hundred different things, but you have to take the first bite and you have to do something different because it isn't just about buying metals, tons in and tons out. You might have the most tons coming in your yard, but if you don't have anybody to process it. So you've gotta attract talent and you attract talent by being out there in the community, so, mm-hmm. There's a lot. You gotta start someplace, be it in your community involvement, be it on socials, be it on like the Facebooks or uh uh, ad in your local journal of some sort, whatever. You have to start someplace. And it can be in a lot of different formats other than just the digital and high-end videos. You don't have to start there. I mean, I think people get scared away because of what I did in that respect. You don't have to do that. You can take pictures and post it. It's easy, you know, it's like you say, one bite at a time. I think if people look at repurposed, you know, just your Super Bowl ad pizza box like that is intimidating because nobody can see how to cross the chasm. It's like, I've gotta get there. Oh, I can't get this. I'm not gonna do anything. So it's like, how do you, okay, here's something tactical. I didn't start that. If somebody wants. I know, I get it. But people are coming in, they're going, that's what they want me to do. And then we are trying to say, that's not what we want you to do. We're saying just start. So here's something, let's be tactical. Okay? Somebody listens to this and says, I'm going to start on Monday. I'm gonna start, I'm gonna do something. Give them a piece of content that they can do. What I mean by that is equipment. This is how a material handle works Monday morning, all right, you, you listen to this and you're gonna start Monday morning. And you're gonna do something. You have to define what that something is, and you have to have a team to execute whatever that something is. Define what you're going to do, and then execute it and then see what happens. But come up with three different concepts first. And so put one out, does it work? Did this work? Because not everything you do is going to work. So you've gotta be flexible and versatile and be able to maneuver, but have a strategy of something. Then have a team to execute it. That's it. It's that simple. I'm gonna take a step back, John, and execute. You're intimidating people again. I have, I employ, I employ 25 people. I don't have a team. I'm saying that I can do it. You, the owner operator can take it. So let's say you're gonna do a day in the life, or you're gonna do a before and after transformation and showing a car versus it being pressed. Right? Right. Like two photos go there, take the photo, take the second photo once it's done, and then go upstairs to your office and post it and make a cool story. Okay. So I see what you're saying about the team. Okay. So you might be a team of one. So you're the team. Okay. Yes. Yes. You come in and you said, okay, I'm gonna do something completely different. Well, I think the easiest thing is first figure out how to use an app of either LinkedIn or Facebook. Yeah. Or Instagram if you don't know how to do that. Alright. Go into the office to say, we are gonna sponsor the opening barbecue for this year's. Whatever it is. Yeah, okay. Maybe cancer happened in your family and you're passionate about it and your local community has a cancer event. Alright. I'm gonna be a big sponsor and I'm gonna be out there and that's what I'm gonna do. You. That's your team. You are the team. If you're the only person, pick something you wanna do that's going to put your company in front of more people. It shows. You care or shows that this is who we are or whatever it may be, that's where you gotta start one idea and then execute. Yeah. One person or a team of people. If you can do one thing, and I'm gonna tell you something that I've seen work and I've seen it work with you, and I'm gonna ask you the question. I does humor work so well in our industry? I think humor works for everything, you know? I mean, look, it's serious enough as it is, my Lord. I mean, humor's good because it takes tension away from what we do. There's a lot of tension on what we do. I mean, let's look at 2025. Look at the tension 2025 had with Terrace. Get me started. You talk about an expert, but, but it threw a lot of people off and so a little humor, you know, lightens your day. I think humor works well in so many elements. I mean, take the Super Bowl ads. They're not as funny as they used to be, but Doritos used to have the funniest doggone ads because they found humor. To work for their ROI. Now, you don't have to be ridiculous with your humor, but if you can make somebody smile in the depths of all the craziness that we're going through in this country right now, I mean, let's face it, it's crazy times doesn't matter what side you're on, but it just seems like nobody can smile at the other guy. Well, if you can make somebody stop and smile for a second. You've reached a person, and I think that's why humor works so well, because the bottom line is, what did my dad tell me? And I'm sure all our parents was cry. And you cry alone, smile, and the world smiles with you. So if you can make humor work and somebody smiles, it's almost like you did a good deed. You don't have to be these comedians who offend people. Humor doesn't have to offend. Humor can be fun, clean, and. Put a smile on your face. And I think humor works in so many applications from the medical world. You know, when people are struggling, sometimes a doctor saying something cute and funny, makes a person feel better about a bad diagnosis or a long-term, okay, I gotta heel or whatever it is. I, I remember this, my dad years ago had a, um. A TIA, which is like a mini stroke. It was nothing impairing. And my uncle, as we went to the hospital, we're sitting there talking to my dad, he goes, because I guess your brain got overloaded with all those jokes. And he smiled. It was funny, it was appropriate because my dad had all these jokes, right? And so the point is, is humor. Humor can make you feel good. When you smile, you feel better. So that's why humor works. It's that simple. And, and I think it aligns you to something, right? So who is giving me the smile? So if we think about the company side of things, if you're making people smile, people like you, people want to do business with you, that you can be as serious as you want, that's great. There's a time to be serious. But if you can lighten people's day, people are more, um, likely to come and spend time with you versus somebody else. Well, I, I, I agree. I, I think look at table scraps, the chef's challenge. People laughed at that. They thought that was the greatest one hour show we ever did, Stuart, because it was crazy. It was the greatest day of my life. There were, it was, but it was fun and there was so much humor going on, right? There's so many humorous things that happened that day, and that's what made it that particular piece of big success because it was crazy fun and it was humorous. Hmm. You know, you see cooking shows on tv, right? There's not a lot of humor going on, and when people are sweating and, and the judges are ripping apart, chef's challenge, man table, scrap Chef Challenge made people smile. That's why it was a success. Tell me something, John, if a thousand people, a thousand operators, metal recyclers in the next week posted on social media telling their story. How different would this industry look? Dramatically? Um, talk us through that. I think that if a thousand people every day and maybe a thousand different companies every day. If, if there's 10,000 of us and a thousand in every 10 days, and, and it just rotating every day. There's a big message out there. And this message was pushed to our policy makers and to the regulators about what we do and what we mean to the American economy of what we mean to the everyday lives of just every human on this planet. We could change the narrative. Um, we have a long way to go. Um, I wish we would have that. I wish we could. People don't realize the power. They really don't realize the power. If, if this industry grouped together as a mass, whether we're in a trade association or not, but as a mass, we started telling our story and start telling it daily. Uh, you couldn't hide from it. You couldn't run from it. Mm-hmm. You as a policymaker, you couldn't put your head in the sand. You would start asking, huh? Why are these people always doing well? That's important and it wouldn't make a difference. It would change our industry. It would take a bit, but it would change it. I want to then finish with this, because we're gonna run out of time. If every one of these people listening to this right now decided to post tomorrow, what is the one sentence they should all post or put in their post? Our industry is the most vital industry in the world today. Without us, the raw materials to make all the new metals and paper products that we need to live our daily lives would not exist. Well, there you go. We just did all the work for everybody. So, uh, there's your first post. Take a photo of your yard, and John's written the copy for you. Get it out there. So I'm expecting the day after this comes out to just see thousands of posts with John's. You don't have to quote John if you want to, otherwise you can, you can quote to John. I don't need any credits here. People, I, I, I really believe for those who watch this, have to understand we have the most powerful message. No industry reduces CO2 emissions like our industry. That's another one you can put out there. We save energy consumption and CO2 emissions by using our materials for our product. There's another sentence you can use. Why are we the most vital? You can go through the environmental side of it, you can do on the making a product side of it, but any statement that tells the truth, it has to be truthful about how vital the nature of what it is we do, be it vital to our environment, to industry, to humanity. We win. On that note, John, thank you for being on Born Scrappy again. Loved it. I love it. I, it may. I enjoyed this a lot, Stuart. Thank you. It is fun to be here. Thanks, John. Cheers, all. That's it for this episode of Born Scrappy. If you have any questions, stories, or topics you want us to dig into. Send them my way Until then, keep it scrappy.
