Salon Success Secrets

The Mindset & Motivation Behind Strong Salon Teams with Michael O'Dell

• Lindsay Lowe & Jen Booth

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Michael Odell's journey from Marine Corps service to prison to leadership offers a masterclass in building teams that last through accountability, courage, and personal growth.

After struggling with addiction from his teenage years through his military service, Michael found himself in prison, where he made a pivotal prayer: to use his experiences to help others and provide for his family. That prayer was answered when he joined Warrior's Heart, an organization helping veterans and first responders overcome addiction and trauma. Starting as an admissions advocate, Michael has risen to Chief Operating Officer, playing a key role in serving over 3,500 warriors in their recovery journeys.

The heart of Michael's leadership philosophy centers on a profound distinction: "You don't manage people. You manage systems, platforms, payroll, schedules... but people can only be led." This insight transforms how we approach team building across any industry. Michael emphasizes that leadership begins with self-leadership—being willing to exemplify the behaviors and accountability you expect from your team.

Salon owners will find immediate value in Michael's concept of "Rules of Engagement"—clear, agreed-upon expectations that create self-governing cultures of accountability. When everyone commits to these shared principles, addressing issues becomes expected rather than resented. Equally powerful is his emphasis on acknowledgment and kindness as motivational forces that cost nothing yet transform workplace dynamics.

Perhaps most transformative is Michael's perspective on fear: "Fear is literally what courage feels like." By reframing fear as an invitation to courage, salon owners facing challenges gain a powerful mindset shift that can propel them through obstacles toward their most ambitious goals.

Ready to build a salon team that's motivated, aligned, and committed? Start by examining your own leadership, establishing clear rules of engagement, and embracing fear as your opportunity to demonstrate courage. Visit warriorsheart.com to learn more about Michael's work and the organization's mission to bring one million warriors home.

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Speaker 1:

welcome to uh built to last, today's podcast episode, and we have an incredible guest on today that's going to help us with mindset and motivation and how to build strong salon teams. You know, as a salon owner, you're not just managing services. You're building a team, shaping culture and carrying the weight of your company's future. But creating a team that's loyal, motivated and committed can feel like uphill battle. Battle, especially when you're facing walkouts or burnout or misalignment. So if you're ready to go from built to last, this is going to be your podcast today.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and so this episode is your reminder that lasting teams aren't built by accident. They're built with intention, and so our guest today brings powerful insight from leading in high pressure environments, and you know he can share with us some mindset shifts, some leadership principles and just some motivational tools that you, as a salon owner, can apply to create a team that doesn't just work. It's somebody who believes in the mission and is able to grow with you. So, whether you're starting your team from scratch, you're rebuilding your team or strengthening an already solid culture, you'll walk away with fresh perspective and real strategies that help you lead with purpose and build something that lasts. So, without further ado, we want to welcome our special guest, michael Odell. Michael, welcome, we're so excited to have you with us today.

Speaker 3:

Thank you all so much. Super excited myself.

Speaker 2:

Yes, awesome. Well, hey, we would love to know. You know, we know so much about you that you work with an incredible company called Warrior's Heart. You do some motivational speaking, you have a big leadership background, but can you tell us who's Michael? What's your story, how did you get into what you're doing and what is it that you do to serve the world?

Speaker 3:

Those are great questions, 50 of them all at once, and I'm the chief operating officer for our headquarters element which is kind of like admin, marketing, sales, compliance, human resources, all of those fun pieces and what we do at Warrior's Heart is we help train our nation's heroes. So it's veterans, active duty military first responders who are struggling with addiction and trauma. We know they're out there. Our mission is to bring one million warriors home and to date we've served thirty five hundred plus since 2016.

Speaker 3:

And the beautiful thing to that is that the thirty five hundred plus is. Those are just single human lives who all impact another life and another life and another life, their family's life, their kids' life, their friends' life, their workplace's life, their team's life.

Speaker 3:

So the ripple effect of that is just absolutely remarkable and you'll never really even know and that's another beautiful thing is like you don't really need to know the ripple effect that you're making in the world as long as you believe that you are and you're and you're doing things with intention, which you already mentioned, uh, on the podcast. Uh, I've been with Warriors Heart since um 2018. I started, uh, my leadership in just my my life, really my life really in the Marine Corps. I joined the Marine Corps in 2006. I got out in 2010. We deployed twice to combat One deployment to Fallujah, iraq. That was my first deployment, and then a second deployment to Ramadi, which is where you know I didn't mention this yet, but as a young man teenagers I struggled with addiction and really what that was is I wasn't happy with who I was for whatever reason, it doesn't even matter.

Speaker 3:

It's nobody's fault. I just wasn't happy with who I was.

Speaker 1:

I didn't know why.

Speaker 3:

And substance changed the way that I felt inside, and so that was what I thought at the time was the way to go right. Well, if you don't like how you feel, change it. You know, it makes sense that didn't get any better when I was in the Marine Corps. Makes sense, that didn't get any better when I was in the Marine Corps, and so the addiction kind of plagued me for a long time. You know I got out in 2010. It was starting to get into a ton of trouble and just couldn't figure out how a Marine, a father, you know, with a little bit of trauma and honorable discharge from service, I just couldn't wrap my head around how I was not able to get out of this hole that I was in. And I did get out of that hole through a lot of help, a lot of support, recovery, all of the things but I was able to dig myself out.

Speaker 3:

And I've been with Warrior's Heart, like I said, since 2018. I've been sober since 2016. And actually March 31st will be nine years, so just a few days away from celebrating nine years of sobriety in this beautiful life.

Speaker 1:

That's a little bit. A little bit about me. Wow, that's incredible, incredible, so incredible. Thank you so much for sharing your story and I'm sure you know, as listeners on the podcast, we can all relate to addiction. You know addiction is so worldwide. My brother actually is in recovery. He's been recovering now for about three years. I've lost family members to addiction. Yeah, so proud of him. And so just thinking for sharing your story, um, because it's it's so inspiring to know that there is hope, like you don't have to give up, and I love what you said is that you just didn't have the tools that you needed for that solution that you were looking for, and so, like, how did you begin this journey of you know working with warrior's heart? You know you have a leadership role there. Um, you step into that, like, did someone see that in you? Did you just come your way? Kind of help us shape the way that that began?

Speaker 3:

So it actually began. So in 2016, I found myself going to prison for substance abuse related things.

Speaker 3:

I just couldn't stop drinking, you know, and what comes along with drinking bar fights, fighting, drinking and driving, all the things you actually shouldn't be doing, but you do them. You know it's, it is what it is. I was in prison and I prayed and I prayed and I asked my higher power to provide a way where I could use my past experiences to help people and provide for my family. So that was my prayer to use my past experiences to help people and provide for my family. If God grant that prayer, I kind of, you know, bargained a little bit but like if you can make that happen.

Speaker 2:

I will never turn back.

Speaker 3:

I will change my ways. I, I will seek help all the things.

Speaker 3:

And then, when I got out of prison, I was offered a job helping veterans and first responders who were struggling with the exact same things that I was struggling with, and so that was like, okay, uh, thank you, and yes, I'll take it. And um, and since then, you know, I, I, uh, I was the admissions advocate and then admissions team lead, and then admissions director, and then command executive director and now chief operating officer. I got custody of my children and I've been able to utilize so many different tools, not only personally but also professionally, to help me get where I've got. But it was through a ton of people that support me and support the path that I'm on.

Speaker 2:

It's not everybody supporting the path that I'm on.

Speaker 3:

You're going to run into people that don't support the things that you're trying to do. You know, you're trying to start a salon. You're trying to start a business. You're trying to start a coaching company. You're trying to cut back on your drinking. You're trying to not go out and stay out late as much. Um, cut back on your drinking, you're trying to not go out and stay out late as much, or whatever it is you're trying to do. If you're going against the grain, uh, there's going to be people who absolutely do not support it. Uh, and it's important to remember, like in recovery, we talk about your people, places and things changing, or that you need to change your people, places and things.

Speaker 3:

But I learned something very valuable, and it's that when I do the right things for the right reason, my people, places and things change on their own, and so it's not a matter of me having to force different situations in life. It's a matter of me being disciplined enough to stay on the right path. And if I stay on the right path, then those things are going to change. And then, look, now I'm on a podcast with y'all Like okay, you know, life has been beautiful since then, but that's how I started at Warrior's Heart and how my recovery journey started. It was through a prayer of desperation, really.

Speaker 2:

Wow, that's powerful, and I love what you said about you know, not everybody's going to see your vision was kind of how I interpreted it. You know, because it's your vision, and I love that. You said, hey, if you are doing it for all the right reasons, it doesn't matter. If people see your vision, because that's why it's your vision, they're going to have their own vision. We're all here to fulfill different purposes, you know, in life. And so I'm just curious, michael, was there a moment in your journey where everything shifted for you as a leader?

Speaker 3:

Yes, absolutely so one thing about one thing about leadership is there's there's people that want to be leaders, and then there's people that become leaders without ever wanting it in the first place. Um, and for me, I never I don't think I ever wanted to be a leader, um, but uh, for some reason, people would follow me and they would listen to me, and people would follow me and they would listen to me and I I didn't have to really try to be seen as a leader and the the big turn happened when I realized that it was one. It's impossible to manage people. You don't manage people. You manage systems, you manage platforms, you manage payroll, you manage schedules.

Speaker 2:

You manage those things, but you can't manage people.

Speaker 3:

People can only be led. Other people they'll call it what they want to call it. You'll have a manager title or whatever. It's not what I mean. You just can't manage people. They can't be managed, they can only be led.

Speaker 3:

And then to lead people, you have to be able to lead yourself. If you, if you expect this from somebody and you're unwilling to do it yourself, you will not be a leader for long. You might be for a time, but you won't be a leader for long. You have to be able to lead yourself. And that was a big, pivotal moment for me was realizing that if I'm going to expect this you know A, b and C out of people I also have to be willing to do A, b and C, and I'm never, ever. A leader is never above the people that they're leading. They think their title means that they're above Absolutely not. If that's what you think, then people will not follow you and they will only listen to you because you're cutting checks. That's it. And if that's, and if that's happening, what kind of culture do you really have?

Speaker 3:

a leader is responsible for the culture of their team and if your team only follows you because you cut the checks and you have the title, then you're not a leader of anything. And so, again, that is just bringing it back around for me, having the awareness that I need to be able to, and willing to, lead myself through personal development. I have to be willing to share, I have to be open, I have to be honest, I have to deal direct. There's a, there's a book by Admiral Admiral McRaven. He's a Navy SEAL, I'm sure you've heard of him, but he has a super motivational speech and he talks about if you want to change the world, you got to start by making your back. That's what I mean by leading yourself. You have to be disciplined and take care of yourself. If you can't, you're not going to be able to lead anybody. And I learned this through a leadership program, and the leadership program was not focused on anybody else, it was focused on you know, and then the other person was focused on them.

Speaker 3:

So it was an individual leadership seminar where I got to really look at myself, and that's what got me started with personal development and professional development was that if I'm not willing to develop myself and be honest with myself and be honest with my failures, my mistakes, the things that I'm not good, at If I can't get honest with those things and work on changing them.

Speaker 3:

I, I I'm not leading anybody, um, so that was. That was a big one for me. It's like it's not about it. It you just have to be able to have the accountability. You've got to be able to embrace accountability. People hate accountability. Not everybody hates accountability, but a lot of people hate accountability, like you know how often does someone show up late for work and somebody says, hey, why are you late?

Speaker 3:

today, all right, and when they do say it, that person might get upset. That person might get upset. Well, so in order to be able to lead like we're talking about high performing teams, you want to lead a high performing team in a salon or high performing team in any industry at all, it doesn't matter what the industry. You have to have buy in from the team for to embrace accountability, because if everybody can embrace accountability, then it's not a big deal and it's expected. When someone says, hey, you're a little off today, what's going on? Or hey, why are you 10 minutes late?

Speaker 3:

You agreed to be on time. That person's not going to meet you with resistance because you're their leader. If you're managing them and that's all they see you as, then, yeah, they're going to meet you with some resistance. So self-development and embracing accountability were the biggest aha moments for me on this journey.

Speaker 1:

That's so good. Thank you for sharing that. I love what you said. You mentioned, like if you want your team to do ABC, you got to do ABC too. And I remember working with salon owner one time and they were like Jen, I can't get my team to come dress luxury, I can't get them to come dress for success. And I was like, okay, well, we worked through some things. And then when I had the opportunity to visit their salon, she was there in leggings and, you know, just a tank top, and I was like that that just goes to show you that, that accountability piece, and that if you truly want your team to do A, b and C, you've got to do A, b and C too. So thank you for what you shared. I'm sure salon owners can really relate to that. And in your personal story too, like how, how have you been able to use that personal story to show up for your team?

Speaker 3:

use that personal story to show up for your team. Oh my gosh, I am so blessed. I am so blessed to have the team that I have.

Speaker 2:

They are.

Speaker 3:

so the way that accountability works is you have to have bite, and so we have something called our rules of engagement for our team. So everybody that joins the team here agrees to these rules of engagement. In the military it's ROEs, which is that rules of engagement. So like, hey, in the military your ROE is do not engage the enemy until they engage you first. So that's an. Roe. So everybody knows and everybody in the military understands that rule.

Speaker 3:

I have not to shoot at anybody unless they shoot at me first. Then I can engage. So we have rules of engagement in our company. One of them is dealing direct. Another one is celebrating all wins, Like if you, you have to be able to celebrate your wins with your team.

Speaker 3:

If you are the person that shows up to work and you walk right by somebody and you don't acknowledge them, even if it's something small like hey, you look great today. You know, like if someone walks by me and says, hey, man, you look really good, did you get a haircut? And they acknowledge me, I'm probably going to be more open to get my hair cut a little more. Maybe I'll wear that shirt because apparently it's a good shirt. But if I'm constantly walked past by my leader, they're not leading me and uh, we don't.

Speaker 2:

We don't have that.

Speaker 3:

We have rules of engagement here at warrior's heart and the team follows them and it has created a culture where it kind of it kind of structured, governs function and it governs itself and there's very little actual dealing direct. That has to happen because it's just happens organically. But it takes a lot to get there. But you have to start somewhere.

Speaker 2:

It takes a lot to get there, but you have to start somewhere. That's incredible. I um, what did you call it? Uh, there there was a three letter acronym uh, rules of engagement ROE.

Speaker 3:

ROE rules of engagement. Yeah, you don't want a long list, you want like six, seven things, maybe, like that's pushing it. Um of course we have 10, but that we have. We have a lot.

Speaker 3:

You really need like five to seven and you get everybody on board, you identify them and you get everybody to agree to them and then you can embrace a culture of accountability, but it's like if you never told me to show up on time and I and I show up when I want to show up, and now you're mad at me. Well, you never told me when to be there I never and I didn't agree anyway, so you people have to be in agreement to the rules, because if they're, if they're running around with with unclear rules.

Speaker 3:

As you know, people will make up their own rules, you know, or? Or a rule gone unchecked will continue to get further and further apart. Someone will show up at eight, oh, five, and then two weeks later, at eight, 10, and then eight, 30 and then nine o'clock, and then, and then, and then, the leader of the manager is upset, well so-and-so.

Speaker 3:

They won't ever show up on time. It's like well upset, well so-and-so. They won't ever show up on time. It's like well, what did you address it the first time? No. Second time, no, no, okay, so it's not a staff problem, it's a leader problem.

Speaker 2:

So good, yeah, we. You know it's very similar to a principle that we teach about heartbeats instead of salon business school. You know the things that really keep. You know the, the hearts of the salon. You can't survive without a heart. You know you gotta have those things that you agree to. Um, I love that. You know, I, I didn't grow up in the military. My dad served in the Navy before I was born. I live next to a military base, fort Riley um, which is an army base, but I'd never heard that. You know the enemy thing that you just said don't engage an enemy before they engage you. I think that that's a that's a great thing just to have in life, just to know. So thank you for that little hot tip, michael. That was great. But I'm just curious, yeah, for salon owners listening, many of whom struggle keeping teams alive, alive and driven, um, what advice would you offer to them?

Speaker 3:

So if you're struggling to, you know, keep that drive going, keep your team motivated. Uh, one of the One of the biggest things I've learned over the years is simple acknowledgments and, oddly enough, reward systems. But reward systems don't always have to be money. In fact, some of the most powerful reward systems is recognition. On our sales team. Here we, we, celebrate all wins, we have a scorecard and so everybody, everybody's, accountable to a number, whatever that number is for their department or their position. Uh, and acknowledgements along the way. People love to be acknowledged, whether, whether they, whether they tell you that or not, it doesn't matter Like you know, even if they say I don't want it, I don't need it, that's fine.

Speaker 3:

People like to be acknowledged for the things that they do, and it's important for the leader to be able to. It doesn't take long to be kind to another human being, especially ones that are helping you grow your business, because that's what our staff are doing, that's what you know other salon owners, hairstylists that's what they're doing. They're helping the business grow, they're helping people, they're serving people and being genuinely kind. I know that's like oh mind blown right time. This goes so far and I've ran into so many leaders that it blows my mind how they're in the position that they're in because they're unkind, they're unwilling to learn, they're unwilling to grow, they're never wrong, they don't listen to anybody, and yet they're in these positions of power that they absolutely have no business being in because they're not kind.

Speaker 3:

People deserve kindness and I tell you what if the world today and it is full of kindness, we just don't see it on the news, but it is full of kindness and it is full of good people and it's full of good things, but all people see is all the negativity. But if people would just set out their day like wake up, make your bed, tell yourself I'm going to be kind to people today. And if you can just do those two things to people today, and if you can just do those two things make a bet and be kind to people you'll your life will change and so will the people's lives around you. Cause people. Have you ever, have you ever seen somebody who is maybe a CEO?

Speaker 3:

or a leader or director, executive director, whatever where you just kind of know, like man, how did they?

Speaker 3:

what are? How is that person even in that position? Yeah, not that they're a bad person, they're just not kind and they probably maybe got that position by being unkind. Uh, you know, but I just did. The world would change if people would just meet people with kindness, like I, one of the you know, but I just did. The world would change. People would just meet people with kindness, like I, one of the you know. One of the things I've learned too. So this this was a big lesson that I learned when I was in prison. I got to learn how to be kind in an unkind place and I know people can probably relate with that, even though they've never been to prison. But they can relate to being in unkind places. Maybe the workplace is unkind, maybe the people I'm working with are unkind. Maybe you know where we go out for dinner. Our friend group is unkind, or whatever the situation is Learning how to be kind in unkind places. It goes back to.

Speaker 3:

We talked in the beginning about kind of going against the grain. You don't have to let that culture bleed into your life. You can be courageous and stand out and be kind. All it takes, for that is is fear. A lot of people are scared of fear. Well, fear is literally what courage feels like. So when you're fearful, just know that that's your opportunity to be courageous. So if you're fearful of your environment, be courageous. If you're fearful of talking to somebody about something, be courageous. That's what courage feels like. It doesn't take courage to. We actually talked about this this morning. There's somebody who's afraid to go do some jujitsu a martial art and they're scared to death of doing it, but they did it anyway. That took courage right because they were fearful of it.

Speaker 3:

Where somebody else loves jujitsu, so it's not courageous for them to do it. It's something that they train, it's something that they love to do. So courage is the things that maybe we, that they love to do, so courage is is the things that we, maybe we don't love to do. Whatever it is you're trying to do in life, courage is, or fear is your chance to step out into courage. And when you step out into courage, you really change. Change the game for your self-concept yourself, self ideals, your self-esteem. It all starts to change. But fear is a good thing, uh, it's not something to be afraid of, it's a, it's, it's life, tapping you on the shoulder, saying, hey, it's time that you get to be courageous, uh, and that you don't always have that opportunity right, like like some people, let's say, public speakers Um, some people love public speaking.

Speaker 3:

It takes no courage for them to get out and do that, and so they may live their entire life, not ever, not ever really having to be courageous, because they're just doing what they love and they're not stepping out of their comfort zone. So whenever you have fear tapping you on the shoulder. It's like that's when you get to go. Yes, I have a chance to be courageous and change my life, even if it's just for that moment. We have a lot of courageous leaders here at Warrior's Heart, so it makes my job really easy.

Speaker 1:

Love that. I love that really easy Love that. I love that for a salon owner. Just, you know, taking a moment and asking yourself where can I be more courageous in my life, in my salon? Maybe it's, you know, in your hiring process, or maybe it's in your releasing a team member, or whatever it may be. So I love that. You share that. So thank you for that. And what would you say is like a book or a tool or resource that you recommend to leaders? I know you mentioned the book on the Navy SEALs. Is there any other resources or tools that will help salon owners become the best versions of themselves?

Speaker 3:

So there there's the book, and I'm just going to go off of Admiral McRaven again, but it's called the Wisdom of the Bullfrog. Won't make Raven again, but it's called the wisdom of the bullfrog.

Speaker 3:

Um it is it's cheap on Amazon. It's a super easy read. It's like 18 small chapters, uh, but it's a phenomenal human being teaching you lessons he learned over the course of 40 years of leading a high performing team, the Navy seals, uh, and like one of his quotes, it isn't enough to believe in something. You have to have the stamina to meet the obstacles and overcome them.

Speaker 2:

Because we can all find an obstacle.

Speaker 3:

They're all over the place. And there's also a book called the Obstacle is the Way. That's another fantastic book. That's where courage comes into play Anytime you face an obstacle, because that's when fear comes in oh, that's too big, oh I can't break through that, oh I'm on the wrong path, like realistically, like who who really knows if you're on the wrong or right path? Anyway, you know, like for me, I, I, when I started at Warrior's Heart, I knew, I felt that I was on the right path, but I also didn't know, I had no clue what kind of things were to come, and nobody ever does. You can, you can strategically plan, have your three-year targets, five-year targets, ten-year targets, what your mission is, where you want to end up, but, um, you never really know. That's a beautiful thing about life, like y'all said uh earlier about like being invisible a little bit.

Speaker 3:

Uh, like that's the beautiful thing is, those things to come are invisible, but you get to create the opportunity, like I had the opportunity to learn a ton of lessons, so I went with Blair Singer to Mount Kilimanjaro in 2020. And one of the lessons I learned on Mount Kilimanjaro in leadership and life was I need help along the way. I didn't go up the mountain by myself. I went up the mountain with a team first of all, and our team went up the mountain with a group of porters local Sherpas, if you will. They carried all of our food and water and tents and all that stuff.

Speaker 3:

We didn't carry that stuff, we had our day pack and so I learned right then and there that if I want to accomplish big things in life, I have to have it to help me accomplish that. If my goals, if I can accomplish my goals by myself, then they are not big enough. That's a cheap way out. It's a cheap way out.

Speaker 3:

Oh yeah, I got all my goals accomplished. Yay, Okay, good job for you. How many people helped you accomplish them? None, then they weren't big enough. The other thing I learned is I thought that this was a once in a lifetime opportunity. Well, I was wrong. I got asked two years later to go to kilimanjaro again with a different group of people to film a documentary on uh veteran and first responder support, and so this is another lesson like the language that we choose to use.

Speaker 3:

One around our teams. They hear it, oh, and they pick up on it. If you're walking around like we can't do this, I can't do that, that'll never happen. Oh man, don't, don't even get in that business Empowering your team through words we got this, you can do this. We like there's no once in a lifetime opportunities here. Uh, and I I checked myself when I got to go again and then I realized but I'm I'm not going to limit myself anymore with these once in a lifetime opportunity things. No way, I get to create the opportunities. I may not know what they look like, but I get to create opportunities.

Speaker 2:

And so for anybody listening.

Speaker 3:

You may not know what opportunities are ahead and you may not even know how to create them. But if you embrace a culture of accountability and you work on your self-development, you have to start to develop yourself and be open, be honest and truthful. If you're able to do those two things, you're able to lead a high-function, high performing team, high performing company, and they will follow you because of who you are, not because of your type.

Speaker 2:

Wow, that is amazing. I love everything that you just said, michael. You're such a bright light in this world and your outlook is just incredible. And you know, our guests, I'm sure, have gotten so many golden nuggets off of this podcast and we're just so grateful for you, so grateful for your time and you sharing who you are and you know your visions of the world and what you see possible, and you know your visions of the world and what you see possible. If somebody who's listening today is, you know, looking to find you warriors heart, where can you help lead them? Where they would find that yes, okay, awesome.

Speaker 3:

So we just wwwwarriorsheartcom. Uh, and you can. That's our website. You can find out anything about us. If, if you have a family member, loved one, that might need some help, they can reach out to us. Our team is awesome, compassionate and understanding. We get it, and then you can check us out on Facebook. We've got a ton of cool Facebook videos and we're also trying to do do like provide value through our social media channels. Uh, you know. So you know, maybe hop on our social and you might see a video that might inspire you. So, uh, yeah, but it's warriors heart on Facebook and then warriors heartcom.

Speaker 2:

Awesome. Well, thank you so much. We are so grateful for your time and you know, I know addiction has impacted it's probably impacted every single person in the world on some degree, whether it's, you know, they themselves, a family member, a friend you know or somebody out there in the world. So we just think it's wonderful what you guys are doing at Warrior's Heart specifically for veterans. We're so grateful for your service, michael, and for everybody else who just it takes a whole world of people to make a positive change and I love that you pointed out. Hey, there's miracles and amazing things happening all the time. You just don't see it on the news. So, thank you for your time today. Thank you for your value, wisdom and insights and we look forward to working with you again in the future. And thanks everybody for tuning in. Feel free to share this with somebody that you think it would bring some sort of a positive impact to today. Thanks for tuning in.