What Guests Are Really Paying For

We dedicate this conversation to Jen’s grandmother, Edna Booth, and the legacy she built by treating beauty as people work, not just hair work. We share how to create trust and long-term loyalty by seeing guests clearly, explaining the why behind recommendations, and teaching our teams to do the same. 
• Edna Booth’s late start and the moment someone saw her gift first 
• Recruiting as believing in who someone can become with the right environment 
• One question that shifts a consultation from ordering to advising 
• Creating harmony with face shape, coloring, scale, and proportion 
• A four-step consultation framework our team can repeat 
• Kind honesty as the foundation of trust and confidence 
• Guest loyalty stories that show what “seen” really means 
• Lifetime value of retention versus short-term guest churn 
• Training a young beauty pro’s eye with tools, systems, and weekly practice 
• Building a standard that outlives the founder as true legacy 
visit thebeautycodebook.com and join the list.

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Transcript

Why Loyalty Lasts Decades

SPEAKER_01 0:32

If a guest can get a great haircut anywhere, and they can, why does she stay with one salon for 20, 30, even 40 years? It isn't only because of the hair. She stays because of who she becomes connected to, because someone helps expand what is already beautiful about her. And because every time she walks through those doors, she feels truly seen. We are taking a brief pause from our leadership film study this week because there's someone very special we want you to meet, someone whose life and legacy embodied everything we're talking about today.

SPEAKER_02 1:20

Yeah, so this episode is dedicated to my grandmother, Edna Booth, who built a 40, 40 uh year career in this industry on everything that Lindsay and I are about to share. She actually would have been licensed 50 years next year. So she recently passed away. And while today is certainly a tribute to her, we also want it to be fun

A Tribute To Edna Booth

SPEAKER_02 1:42

because she was fun. And we don't want to simply tell you what she meant to us. We want to teach you what she lived.

SPEAKER_01 1:49

Yes, because Edna understood something that our industry can sometimes forget. We may work with hair, but our real work is with people.

SPEAKER_02 2:03

Yeah, so uh interesting enough, my grandmother actually started in the industry later in life. She was in her 30s, and her husband had become uh terminally ill. So she had to find a way to support her family. She had three three kids, and so um she always had this eye for design. Um, she always could do people's hair without being licensed. She just had a way to tell people how to dress and what to look like. And so, actually, interesting enough, a neighbor whose hair she had styled before for an event um entered her into a beauty contest. So in the newspaper, she saw there was a beauty contest coming up. So she entered

Starting A Beauty Career Later

SPEAKER_02 2:37

my grandmother without my grandmother knowing. So my grandmother actually says, okay, sure, I'll do it. Um, so she uh enters the contest. I can't remember exactly. She might have had to do a tease out with a cut and a color. Um, but she actually ended up winning honorable mention in that contest. So um that meant that she got to enter into beauty school um with her tuition half price. So that's how she started in her 30s. Um, you know, most people would say it's too late for me to go back to school and do anything, not her. She said, Wow, this is truly my gift. So, you know, when you think about that, and I think about the neighbor, you know, she saw something in Edna before Edna could have possibly known where it would lead.

SPEAKER_01 3:21

Yeah. Jen, that is so cool. First of all, like half off of tuition, like that's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 3:28

I mean, imagine being like, yeah, we have a cosmetology school, we'll give you half off if you're really great at it, you know.

SPEAKER_01 3:34

Like so what a what a time, you know, to be a part of, first of all, with Edna. And I love what you just said, you know, somebody saw something in Edna before Edna could have possibly known where it would lead. And it is amazing. Like, you know, I feel like hindsight always gives us 2020 when we look back about like all those little seeds that led us to where we are. But you know, I think it's great to like reflect back on like who who was somebody who either saw something in you before you saw it in yourself. Like I know, just even thinking about Cheryl, who I bought the salon from that I own now, um, her seeing that in me led me down a path. I know your grandmother Edna seeing in you what she saw led you down an amazing path. But I think what's even deeper than that is like as the leaders of our teams, like we get to, you know, see that in somebody else. Because like I know Jen, you've shared stories with me over the years. I know I've shared stories with you about sometimes like you take a chance on somebody in your salon or in your team, like where when they first start, people are like, I don't like what you see in person, you know. I don't know if there's any of those stories that are coming top of mind for you, Jen.

SPEAKER_02 4:57

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I can think of several off the top of my head that other people on the team would be like, Jen, I just don't know about her. And I was like, you know, uh, recruiting when you think about it, isn't only recognizing who someone is today, it's recognizing who she could become, who they could become with the right environment. And so that's one thing I always have to stick in my back pocket is you know, um, to not let the outside noise um dictate what can be created in that environment. And those people, some of those people that others said, Oh gosh, I don't know. I don't know about her, I don't know if she's the right fit. Like there was just something in me that I said, man, if she had the right environment, I think what she could do would be even bigger than she dreamed. And so those people have really thrived in our companies.

SPEAKER_01 5:41

Yeah, that's so cool. Um, you know, I it's like who knows if Edna would have answered that call had the neighbor not begun knocking on that door, you know, and and seeing something in her. And so, you know, somebody that you meet in your local cosmetology school or that's uh even a guest at your salon, you know, like I know there's little girls who've grown into beautiful women and and men too, you know, that um sometimes you can just recognize, like, hey, they might have a thriving career in beauty one day, you know. I know um probably if you have kids on the show or you're you know, you're listening, um probably somebody has asked you, are your kids gonna take over at some point in time or are your nieces gonna take over, what's gonna happen, you know, and sometimes like you can tell, you know, some of your kids might be interested and some of them might not at all. But you know, sometimes it's like seeing those gifts that people have and like helping expand them. Jen, like you mentioned, you know, when you see something in somebody and you say something and then you help expand it, like that's where amazing stories like Edna's are are born. Because sometimes someone has to see something in you before you can see it in yourself. And as an owner, being that someone is a part of the job.

SPEAKER_02 7:09

Yeah, I think back to um she had three kids. My grandmother, of course, had three kids, and I was the only one that I think she really saw the gift because I think she must have watched the way I started my styled my Barbies. I must have done a really good job because she was like, Man, that's a gift there. You've been watching me. I think I think we could we could work this out. So you're that is so true. I love that you said that. Uh Lindsay. So, you know, when we talk about be expanding someone, you know, you think about consultations and like what does that look like? You know, it's simple

Recruiting For Who She Can Be

SPEAKER_02 7:37

to say, hey, what are we doing today? Versus like, hey, would you be open to hearing what I'm noticing about you? Just those two different questions. Man, one makes you a true beauty pro. Um, one makes you the beauty professional who's an order taker, right? It's like, hey, what are we doing today? Which is probably the number one thing that guests here. The number one thing that guests here in salon is, hey, what are we doing today? But the other, when I said, Hey, would you be open to hearing what I'm noticing about you? The other allows that person or that guest um to become like you know, something even more special. They didn't even know was possible to possible for them. And that's because the beauty pro becomes a trusted advisor. You know, I think about my grandmother, she uh made, I got a picture not too long ago, she made her niece's wedding dress, and this was before she was even into hair, before she got nominated for this this uh contest. Um, she made her niece's wedding dress. I think Lindsay, you got to see the picture, and you know, she it was beautiful. And during the fitting, she noticed that her niece had this long, eloquent neck, and so the way she cut the dress, she said, Hey, we're gonna have to make a choker for this to balance you. And so she made a choker for her niece uh to balance out her body shape and her necklines. And so when you think about that, like she wasn't just seeing someone, um, she didn't only see what someone was wearing or what her niece was wearing, she saw the woman wearing it, and she knew how to help them.

SPEAKER_01 9:09

I I love it. And um, you know, maybe we'll post a picture of that dress on our story or somewhere um to share because it really was beautiful. And I think, man, that is such a lost art. Like it is amazing to see what so many women and I'm sure men too over the years made from scratch. Like she made that dress and then that choker was like so cute and like for that time too, like you know, like how like edgy, you know, and like what a cool, cool thing, you know. And recently, actually, um, one of the very first little girls that I ever did her hair when I first when I was a little girl doing hair, you know, 20 some years ago, um, she's gonna be getting married. And um, I I don't do services on guests anymore, but she did reach out and it's nostalgic, you know, probably for both of us, and um asked if I could help her with her wedding hair. And I said, don't tell anyone I said yes, but I accidentally just told everyone. So don't call me for services, but you know, it was so fun to see her and to hear her vision. And, you know, one of the things like she showed a hairstyle, and um, you know, we realized, like, gosh, this is beautiful, but like just looking at her face shape, she has a beautiful, long, lean face. And the picture that she showed was it wasn't totally half up, half down, but it was like really sleek on the sides, you know, and um, and had some good full volume on the top. And um, when we tried it on her, when we first did it, I said, hey, we let's try this one, but we might want to add just a little bit of fullness on the sides with to balance your face shape and to create that harmony. We can still get the look, you know. And she was like, Wow, has my face always looked like this? And we were joking, you know, and um no, she's absolutely beautiful, but like when you can see that harmony, like man, that is such a gift. And that, like honestly, you know, we talk about face shape, we do all this stuff all the time, but like I think also just in being inspired by Edna recently with her choker on that dress helped make that consultation go deeper. And I think, you know, when you're able to notice something that the guest isn't noticing themselves yet, and you explain the why and they and they see it, like their confidence just raises so much, you know. And it's like she could have gone to anyone and showed them that picture and they could have done it, and she would, and you know, it's like when the guest's like, oh, I don't know, something's off, like they can't figure out what it is. Like, step back and look in that in that situation. And oftentimes you can see, like, is there something visually like with her, you know, just giving her uh slightly less sleekness coming back and a little bit more fullness on the sides, like just gave her that harmony that just really made her pop in that moment.

SPEAKER_02 12:09

That's so good. So, you know, I think about just as everything you were saying, Lindsay, there's been so many guests. I was thinking about a guest maybe that um recently I just helped a uh service provider beauty pro with, and um, we were trying to come up with a perfect plan. So this woman was a mom. She actually brought her kids in um and they were sitting with her, and um, she wanted a haircut. It's been a while since she had a haircut, and so um my beauty pro asked, you know, to let's really analyze her face shape together so that we could really create this perfect plan for her and help her feel like herself again because that's the one thing she kept asking or kept saying is like, hey, I want to feel like myself again. So like we analyzed her face shape to a T. You know, we were like, hey, um, this is where you need more layers, this is where you need less layers. Like she had one length that is long, she hadn't had her haircut in a while. We talked about she wore glasses, we talked about like the kind of glasses frames that would fit her face. Um, and we did all these little things and um put the final touches in. We even talked about her color season. So when we finished the haircut, you know, we put that little pop of spring color on there because that's what she was. And then, you know, she looked at herself and a tear came down her eye. And her kids were standing there, and they're like, Mom, you look so beautiful. And like a tear kind of came down my eye too, because it was such an emotional moment, the opportunity that we get to create for these people, that she for once saw herself again, and she for once could attach being beautiful to who she really was.

SPEAKER_01 13:36

Oh, I love that. And truly, that's what it's all about. We are here for these transformations, like, and you know, you might be thinking, I want to know how to do that. Like, I want to my team to be able to create that experience every time. And so here's a great consultation framework to utilize. So, step one would be what do I see? Like, actually look at the person, you know, check out their face shape, their coloring, their body structure, their

Consultations That Create Harmony

SPEAKER_01 14:07

just overall proportion and natural features. Then I think that can lead you into that next step, which is what does she want? Not just the picture she brought, but how does she want to feel? You know, what's most important to her, like learning those things about what she wants next. So you see her, then you see what she wants. And then step three would be to what would expand what is already there. So the goal is never to correct the woman or anything like that. It's to complement her, to create harmony, you know, like looking at somebody as a whole, you know. Um, I have once upon a time we did that fun little salon celebration where I wore a short hair wig and you know, I'm five eight and I work out and muscular, you know? And to see me with that short hair, like it that is what stood out, you know, it wasn't balanced and in proportion. And so even just kind of being able to see those things, like it doesn't mean you would ever say, Hey, Lindsay, don't have short hair if that's what's important to me. You know, it it might mean like, hey, have you ever thought about growing it longer? You know, like have you it's trying to expand what's already there. Like if you learn that what's most important to them is short hair, okay, maybe you don't bring that up. But if you're trying to create that overall look and balance, like that's a you have to see them, then you have to understand what they're looking for, and then you look to expand what's already there. And then that leads you to step four, which is can I explain why? You know, here's what I'm noticing about you. Here's why I believe this would work for you.

unknown 15:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:55

Well, that's I love that. The the consultation framework. Just imagine how the guest experience will be elevated, just setting those touch points. Wow, that's incredible. So when you think of that, that especially from a guest perspective, like compliments matter more when they come from someone willing to be honest, right? And so, like Lindsay was saying, you say things in a beautiful way, not like Lindsay, you should never have short hair. Actually, you look really cute and that short hair. But like kind honesty, that's what creates trust. Just like Lindsay was saying, is like, hey, have you ever considered longer hair? Um, and you know, when you take a think about expertise, expertise is not about controlling the guest, you know, it's just about making recommendations, and then the guest gets to decide. And that's what's the most beautiful part about it. Confidence comes from being able to explain the recommendation, but not just have an opinion about it.

SPEAKER_01 16:49

Yeah. And truly, like one approach sells from insecurity and the other serves from expertise, you know? And so, like when you think about all of those guests that you've seen over the years who have, you know, been there for all of the years. I know um you've had guests that were Edna's guests for 50 years. I'm sure you could tell so many stories about that. You know, I think of a longtime guest that we've had at the salon who has visited multiple beauty pros. And um, that's the goal is to get them to see, you know, the value that your salon company creates for them by, you know, continuing to focus that education into your team about what's important and not just teaching them a haircut. Sure, they're gonna need to know those foundational things, but like architecture doesn't change, like uh the color wheel doesn't change, like how you are your shears doesn't change. Those are foundational things. Like so many people pour hours into learning new trends and techniques. Sure, you might need a little of that, but you guys were in the people business. And you know, when you think about that, like some of those long-term guests that return year after year after year, like, you know, I think about a guest who came in and I actually was in there just enjoying a service, and she came over and she's like, Oh, good, I was hoping you were here. She was like, I lost my cell phone and I haven't been able to find it. And we got the giggle so bad about it. I was like, I love that you hoped that I was here to help you find your cell phone, you know, it was just really cute. And I was like, Well, is it in your car?

SPEAKER_00 18:30

And she's like, No, and you know, we're like going through all these things, and then later I called her to check on her and she was like, I I knew I was gonna have to come clean. It was in my car.

SPEAKER_01 18:41

And we laughed about it, but you know, like that's the trust that you build with your guests after all those years that they, you know, I have actually never done her hair once over all the years, and she has visited the salon, you know, since actually before we were in an inception, you know, because we used to I bought it from the previous owner and we switched our name a couple years in. And so she's been with us through both names, you know, and um, so it's just amazing the loyalty you can build. But like over the years, we've helped her with her coloring, helped we've helped her pick down outfits, lipsticks, like she's you know retired and double retired and all these things, and she can't wait to get a new bright red lipstick when she comes in, you know. So it's wonderful what you can build with guests.

SPEAKER_02 19:26

Yeah, I love that. You know, interesting enough, we have a guest. Um, she's been with us for 40 plus years. Her name is Carol. And um, I didn't ask Carol this, but one of our team members recently asked Carol this. They said, What keeps you coming back, or what what what makes you choose the salon for over 40 years? So my team knows that she's uh been here that long. And she said, it was the day I met Edna. I met her at a, I think my grandmother had gone to spoke at a a newcomer's club, I don't even know, garden club, something. And she talked to the women about their face shape, their skin tone, their body shape. And she said, I knew in that moment I needed help that I didn't know I needed. And she said, That's when I knew I had to make a visit with Edna in her salon, because my grandmother always ran a teen-based salon as well. And then she said, those first visits changed everything for me. I knew what hairstyle I needed, I knew what color clothes to wear, I knew how to put my makeup on. And she said, That's what's kept me coming back for 40 plus years.

SPEAKER_01 20:22

That is so beautiful. Like, you know what? Get down with your bad self, Edna. Like she was like bringing it before we even know, before we even knew what to bring. Edna's like, here you go. This is what you bring, you know. I think what's so cool about stories like Carol and you know, the guests that I just shared about was, you know, when they stay for all those years, whether it's, you know, 10, 20, 30, 40 years, like, you know, when you think about the lifetime value of a guest who, let's say, stays for 30 years and they visit on average between five and six weeks, you know, at a $200 average ticket, that's $54,000 is what their lifetime value is that they're investing into your company. And and when I when we look at the average guest in our industry, the average lifetime value is $2,400 to $4,000. Like

The Four-Step Consultation Framework

SPEAKER_01 21:22

you're only getting haircuts and you're not staying for very long. Like they aren't seen. They don't like there's nothing magical happening there, you know. And we haven't even thought about people like Carol and people like Sandra, who how many referrals does she send? You know, how many members of her family eventually become guests? Like all of them. Exactly. Exactly. And for us, Sandra's family's all over the country. So we are her family, you know, you know, she refers her friends, like, you know, and so how does that compare with someone who leaves after 18 months? And you know, I think as leaders, we need to think about all these details. I think so many salon owner coaching companies are teaching people to slam the hammer on these cancellation policies and do this and do that. And, you know, they're so aggressive and forceful. But we got people like Carol and Sandra who are giving us 54 G's, 54, you know, $4,000 or more, you know, and it's not even about that, it's like the value that you're creating in their life. Talk about living a peaceful, beautiful, wonderful life. Like that's that's how it's created.

SPEAKER_02 22:40

I love that. You know, Lindsay brings me to this thought is you know, the salon owners listen, like, well, this is great. I see all this, but my team, Jen and Lindsay, on the other hand, cancel. It's it's hard for them to see that. And that's okay. That's okay. Because, you know, that's sometimes pretty normal. Um, but a young beauty professional may not just see them yet. And it's not because she lacks talent, it's just because no one has actually developed her eye. And so that's why we have the systems in place. That's why we have a consultation framework, that's why we have the guest journey, that's why we have the color analysis kit, that's why we have the face shape analysis cards, is because it helps train their eye. So don't give up on your team just yet, you know. Um, don't become frustrated. We know that can that cannot transfer a skill. Just help paying more, start paying more attention and see where the opportunities are. Because when you see those opportunities, you can coach to them and build that person up and train that skilled eye.

SPEAKER_01 23:37

Yeah. And Jen, everything that you just said made me think of like your instinct as an owner has to become their education. You know, so you might be like, like Jen said, yeah, Jen and Lindsay, this is great, I can see it, but they can't. But your instinct, what comes naturally for you is now how you get to create your education, you know. So at your next team meeting, here's just an idea of a practical way that you can do this together with your team. Um, like Edna would have, you know. Um, the first thing that you could do is like just show the group a photo without explaining what you see, but ask the team what they noticed first about that guest, you know, ask what they would recommend and why. And then walk them through what your eye went to first and explain what you noticed about the color, about the shape, about, you know, just the scale and the proportion, you know, like even thinking long, short hair, all that stuff. And truly like you could even turn this into a huddle that you do with your team and just repeat with a new image every week. You know, so just bring a new image and talk about what you would do for that person, you know, because as salon owners, here's the truth: the standard cannot live exclusively inside your head. It has to belong to the salon. You know, that is how a business and a legacy outlives its founder, just like Edna did.

SPEAKER_02 25:13

Yeah, I love that. You said outlives its founder. That reminds me of uh, I think it's a newer country song. It's called MacArthur. I think uh Morgan Wall and Tim McGraw. Have you heard that, Lindsay? No, what's it called? It's like it's it's called MacArthur. So it's about a like four

Loyalty Value And Training Your Team

SPEAKER_02 25:27

generations of a family farm being passed down, I think. Yeah. Um, I'd have been listened to it really, really great, but like that's truly legacy. And when you think about it, it's in the I think the wording is like when you pass on, what are you gonna pass down? And so like when I think about legacy, I think about Edna and like what she truly passed down. And when she when she passed a few weeks on, a few weeks ago, um, when I came back to the salon, my team had written her little notes and it was so cute because a lot of them had never even had the opportunity to meet her. I mean, there's some on my team that did, but some that did not. And you know, that's when you're really creative legacy, because I'll read you just a few things um that some of my team members wrote. You know, someone on my team named Ella, she said, even though I never got the pleasure to meet you, so she's writing this little note to Edna, um, I can feel your legacy here every day. You know, another team member, Morgan, said, you know, we promised to deliver that Edna level value uh to every guest. You know, I remember someone else saying to the OG who really brought beauty to the beauty industry. And so, like, when you create the space for guests to see that and for uh team members to live that, man, that's when you get to um outlive the founder.

SPEAKER_01 26:40

That is beautiful. She, you know, will truly continue to touch lives for years and years and years. And, you know, her name just isn't a part of your history anymore. It's, you know, truly becoming the standard, you know, based on those, that, those beautiful words that your team shared, you know. And truly, that is the question for every owner listening. You know, what would your version of Edna level value be? You know, what should people experience in your salon, even if they never have the opportunity to meet you? You know, this conversation is also connected to something Jin and I have quietly been creating for a long time. You know, we've spent years putting language around what excellent beauty professionals often see intuitively face shape, body structure, coloring, scale, proportion, so that it can be taught, understood, and repeated. And now we've put it into a book called The Beauty Code.

unknown 27:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:46

And this isn't a book written for beauty professionals, beauty pros, or salon owners. It's actually written for salon guests and really for any woman and every woman who has ever wondered why something beautiful on someone else didn't feel quite right on her. So, you know, women have spent their whole lives being told that beauty works one way. You know, one 3D haircut, one ideal color, one acceptable body, or one version of what beautiful is, but it doesn't.

SPEAKER_01 28:17

Yeah, and you know, there isn't just one beautiful space or one beautiful body or one right way to look. The better question for this is what works with you?

unknown 28:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:30

Imagine this. Imagine if you have a guest leaving your salon and saying more than just, oh, I love my hair. Yeah, that's good. Imagine her saying for the first time, I understand why this works for me.

SPEAKER_01 28:43

Yeah, and truly that that's the kind of experience that no one can undercut on price, you know. And this is only the beginning, but if you'd like to be among the first to know when the beauty code is released, visit thebeautycodebook.com

Legacy And The Beauty Code

SPEAKER_01 28:59

and join the list. We cannot wait to share it with you. Um, and you'll be saying, so why do guests, you know, stay with one salon for 20, 30, 40 years? Because she's connected, you know, because someone expands what is already beautiful about her instead of trying to fix her. And because she feels seen.

SPEAKER_02 29:22

Yeah, and you guys, the hair matters, it really does. The technical skills matter, but the service, the hospitality is the way we deliver something much bigger. You know, so your opportunity is to walk into your salon tomorrow and watch your team, but don't only watch their full placement or their blowouts, watch how they see people. And you know, when you notice something that they cannot see yet, don't get frustrated and don't simply step in and do it for them. Just teach them, teach them how to see it. Because when what comes naturally to you still has to become education for the next generation.

SPEAKER_01 29:55

Yeah, and Jen and I often talk about what it truly means to be a beauty professional. And to us, beauty is about finding and revealing the good that is already there. And a professional has the opportunity to move that good forward.

SPEAKER_02 30:13

Hey, and if we can help another generation of beauty pros make people feel known, feel valued, and feel seen, then a little piece of Edna Booth gets to live inside a whole lot more salons than just ours. Yeah, and I I think she'd like that. Oh, she would. Although, Lindsay, she would tell us both make sure we put some lipstick on first.

SPEAKER_00 30:35

I love it.

SPEAKER_02 30:36

Cheers to Edna.