Are you prepared for a journey that takes you from the world of finance to the dynamic universe of martial arts? That's exactly what our guest, Patrick Donahue, did. A successful finance professional, Patrick chose to pivot his life to become a martial arts business owner, trading monetary success for the pursuit of his passion. We'll delve into his courageous journey and the fears he overcame. Patrick's story is a testament to the power of determination, purpose, and balance, making his insights invaluable for those contemplating a career shift or seeking to add more passion into their lives.
Our conversation extends beyond career changes, delving into lessons from blue zones, where individuals maintain purpose well into their golden years. These teachings offer a fresh perspective on life, redefining societal norms, and showing how the pursuit of passion evolves into something bigger than ourselves. Patrick's expertise in martial arts also takes center stage, particularly in the intersection of this discipline and parenting. He shares how martial arts can be applied to parenting, teaching us when to intervene and when to let our children learn from their mistakes.
As an added bonus, we also discuss the importance of breath in both martial arts and yoga, and how these practices can lead to a more fulfilling life. Patrick’s journey, from finance professional to martial arts business owner, is a compelling reminder of the importance of following your passion and finding balance in life. Get ready to be inspired, motivated, and maybe even contemplate a few changes in your own life. This episode isn't just a discussion, it's an exploration, an affirmation, a wake-up call, and a heartfelt reminder of the importance of pursuing what truly matters to us. Join us on this enlightening journey with Patrick Donahue.
Are you prepared for a journey that takes you from the world of finance to the dynamic universe of martial arts? That's exactly what our guest, Patrick Donahue, did. A successful finance professional, Patrick chose to pivot his life to become a martial arts business owner, trading monetary success for the pursuit of his passion. We'll delve into his courageous journey and the fears he overcame. Patrick's story is a testament to the power of determination, purpose, and balance, making his insights invaluable for those contemplating a career shift or seeking to add more passion into their lives.
Our conversation extends beyond career changes, delving into lessons from blue zones, where individuals maintain purpose well into their golden years. These teachings offer a fresh perspective on life, redefining societal norms, and showing how the pursuit of passion evolves into something bigger than ourselves. Patrick's expertise in martial arts also takes center stage, particularly in the intersection of this discipline and parenting. He shares how martial arts can be applied to parenting, teaching us when to intervene and when to let our children learn from their mistakes.
As an added bonus, we also discuss the importance of breath in both martial arts and yoga, and how these practices can lead to a more fulfilling life. Patrick’s journey, from finance professional to martial arts business owner, is a compelling reminder of the importance of following your passion and finding balance in life. Get ready to be inspired, motivated, and maybe even contemplate a few changes in your own life. This episode isn't just a discussion, it's an exploration, an affirmation, a wake-up call, and a heartfelt reminder of the importance of pursuing what truly matters to us. Join us on this enlightening journey with Patrick Donahue.
It's been 40 minutes.
Speaker 1:I know, I know we just did a yoga class together. It was great. So, everybody I'm on with Seafood. Patrick Donahue, also a professor because he's achieved two black belts in two different forms of Jujutsu, if I'm correct. So Budokan, with studies from Paramahansa Yogananda. He owns Zen Martial Arts in Rochester Hills, michigan. He is my friend and I'm happy to call him that, and somebody I absolutely respect, and my daughter goes to his dojo. I've been to his dojo and it's pretty cool. So anyway, without further ado, this is Patrick Donahue, and I'm glad we're doing this together.
Speaker 2:As am I Very excited. Thank you very much for having me. I'm honored and blessed to be on here with you today.
Speaker 1:Cool. So I think what's interesting is your business and my business, from the standard of business, is really similar in the sense that you got to be and I'm not talking about the dollars-wise and all the rest of that stuff and you know brick and mortar building, you have to be absolutely passionate about what you do. To do what you do, as do I, because otherwise, if it was just a business, probably we'd have both gotten out of it a long time ago. It's not because the money made or not made. It's more in the sense of running a business with personalities and people and being there for people and assisting them with our chosen art and passion is I don't know. I think it's what you live for. It's definitely what I live for, and my family, of course, but it's a different kind of thing and both of us have been in.
Speaker 1:You were in finance, I was a real estate agent. We were both in very money-oriented businesses before. But tell people about your shift going from money, money, money, more or less as a finance guy to you know, to. This is where whoops, this is where you want to make a living and this is where you want to spend your time. So I forgot to turn my phone off.
Speaker 2:I think I've always had it in my mind since I made the shift, finding the balance between temple and business. And I have to do the business part because I get to do on the mats and I think you know, having a billing service or help at the front desk, transactional kind of thing, signing people up or anything related to tuition or someone buying a uniform shirt or whatever I just I don't want to be helping someone on the mats and fixing their uppercut or sparring or rolling with them in jujitsu and fixing their arm bar and have to know anywhere in the back of my mind this guy's two months behind on paying tuition. You know, it just sort of muddies the, it poisons it, it makes it not as pure, and so I have to do this stuff. I talk with students. I'll say, yeah, I'm just the guy with the key. Somebody has to have the name on the lease, somebody has to make sure that the rent is paid or the electric bill is paid. But it's our school 100%. If I get hit by a bus tomorrow, you know the no-jur should continue and I think I think making that jump out of college, being a business major, then going to business school and working for an investment bank for five years, pricing municipal bonds which is exciting as it sounds and having it just be so green driven and seeing, you know, at 25, 26, seeing what, I guess, what I was supposed to aspire to, the guys that were 35 or 45, who had millions of dollars and the coolest car and all kinds of other stuff, whether it was substances or you know multiple, multiple divorces and their kids hate them and they're chasing after girls half their age.
Speaker 2:You know I wasn't interested in going there. So why am I kind of following that path? And it was kind of odd to everyone that I wouldn't think that that was awesome. And so finding a way to make my recreation and my passion my profession was the jump and I don't want to say it wasn't that hard for me, but it didn't sit right the whole time for five years after college, what I was doing on some level, parts of it they were great. My mind likes numbers and stuff, but it wasn't that hard. But you're right, there are plenty of things about managing a week to a week that you know if I want to make a zillion dollars out of a state in an investment banking, there are things about, obviously, just people, it's just people. You know you can have little things arise.
Speaker 1:But what was your biggest worry, like I know? For me, going into from real estate making the jump was money. I was going to be broke, I was going to be this poor yogi, but I so desired what yoga could do for me, because it had already done it Waking me up, taught me so many lessons, softened my heart, opened me up to all kinds of ideas, like I just wanted to immerse myself in that selfishly and then share what I learned with others. But I was terrified of just being absolutely broke, not being able to pay my bills. You know what, if I failed at this? I had a lot of fear when I first made the jump and then, certainly you know, from time to time that comes back up, but in general not so much. What about you? What were you afraid of, if anything?
Speaker 2:I wasn't super afraid of for myself because I thought maybe it was the old you know sort of story of or the image of, if I had to, I would just live in my school a little bunk somewhere, a little loft, and lock up at night when students go home and live there. But for me it was. Is this going to mean making this choice at 27, 27 years old? Does it mean is it going to preclude me and say, because it's evening hours and because it's way less, you know way less money, or possibly you know something that means I couldn't have a wife and kids, and it meant cool, I'll do it at 30 and 40 and 50. And I'll be the dude that just lives in the school and works out all the time. It doesn't have two nickels to rub together, but that's all right. You just pay him in a bag of potatoes or a dozen eggs. You know that's just what I eat that week. And it's like for me.
Speaker 2:I was kind of okay with that, but maybe that meant that I couldn't have the family that I knew I didn't want, and so then it was just like no, find what you love and then find a way to get paid for it and then maybe be smart on a couple of side or background or outside things that also can provide some income until the school proves that it is strong and stable and we've made it incredibly strong by just following that. You know the relationships, the teaching and the passion and the inspiration and motivation and you know the money will come later, in whatever amount that it comes in and being okay with that.
Speaker 1:But how many people say to you oh, I want to do what you're doing, and then you try to explain it to them like all right, well, this is what you have to be willing to do. And they're like well, yeah, I can't. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, then you don't really want it. You want to talk about it, or it sounds good. Yeah, you don't want it to the level that I would call wanting Right.
Speaker 2:You want to be the idea, right, but I love things in life or that way. You like the idea of saving money, but when you're at the checkout you know you buy a bunch of stuff you don't need or you love and you can't stay. I haven't broke for 20 years. It's always somebody else's fault. Yeah, like, how much are you on Amazon? Or how much are you wasting time on your phone or buying don't quote, unquote need or physical fitness or pick the example. You know you like the idea of it, but it's not what, it's not how, it's not even how badly you want it. It's how badly you're willing to work for it, day in, day out, no matter the excuses that come up.
Speaker 1:There's also the willingness to let go of what you think other people think, what society thinks, what your family may. As ingrained to you, you know, as the child of an immigrant, it was like you're supposed to be a doctor or a lawyer I'm sure a lot of immigrants, if anybody's got an immigrant family listening to you or going like, oh yeah, that was the point, or an engineer or something like that, and you know, I'm none of those things. But so it's like you're also going against the grain of what society says, which is really hard. But look at how many people retire and within two years of debt, two years, maybe three, dead. What did you work so hard for? Right, like as soon as you left that office somebody else's name was on the door.
Speaker 2:Yeah, those green zones though. We've talked about this, you and I, about those parts of the world where it's community that people feel well into their 70s and 80s and beyond.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the blue zones, the blue zones.
Speaker 2:Blue sorry blue zones.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Something else. We don't have a discussion with somebody else this week. The blue zone it wasn't green zone, but the blue zones, those areas in the world where it isn't, your purpose isn't tied to your profession, and your profession may end at a retirement age, but you have purpose and you're 77 years old and you know the village is counting on you to sell. Or you're 80 years old and the village is counting on you to cook the meal or whatever it is in the community. Right, it's culturally baked in and it can't be just some sort of idealistic, utopian sort of thing out of a movie.
Speaker 2:But when you give someone a purpose and so for me it would be what we really do here is build an engine inside of people, help them find their own I believe it already exists, but really develop it, believe in it, grow it and then apply it to whatever they want. So it's not just saying world champions you know close friends who train to win. You know tournaments, or they train people to win. It's not just about creating world champions with champions in their world. So if you take the things you like, the engine, you learn the engine, you create lessons learned and really deeply entrenched in you, then you apply them to whatever you do, for either a living or whoever you are as a person, or whatever you spend your time doing.
Speaker 1:And that's. It's interesting because obviously you know to say that that's your worldview about you, right, that's my worldview about me and what I teach in yoga, because I think that's what works for me, and and. But there's still those dark days, those hard days, where you're feeling burned out and you feel like, oh, my God, what am I doing?
Speaker 2:You know, I wonder if Starbucks is hiring, but I'm the lean and all those people in your closest circle you know who might. It would be if I feel that way, of having that kind of a moment, even if it's not a whole day. It was having a moment like that, what are you?
Speaker 1:And you mean yeah, I'll call you grab coffee.
Speaker 2:We remind ourselves both who we do it for. And you look at, you know your dog and I look at my son and my daughter and we remind ourselves why we're doing right.
Speaker 2:We're put. You know, you said it to me and I've said it to you and I don't know who said it first. I don't really care. Like, why are you here? Are you here to just make the most money and then die, never dies? The biggest bank account wins, or you know what I mean. Like what you can say that people will say, well, that's how you keep score. You know how you're doing. It's in one area. You know another way you keep score would be any of the tests that come back from your doctor. You know another way you keep score. Take five people around in your life and find out what they really think of you.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And what you're like. In so many ways, those are ways to keep score too, because you could find someone with all the money in the world, with the worst health, and the people around them, their family and friends, don't care for them at all.
Speaker 2:And it's like you got to call that winning. Okay, you know, go ahead, I don't. But it's not also just so idealistic to say everyone thinks I'm nice and I have low stress and I'm happy and I just eat a clean diet and I walk around the city and I whistle and well, you're going to get your lights turned off because you're hitting bills. You're going to have to fight money and be successful. You want to buy your kid lunch. So, there's a balance to it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I woke up this morning. You know I do a nice bath every morning. I do work out every morning about 30 minutes every morning, and I went to the gym last night and this morning I'm like man, I'm really sore, my shoulders kind of tweaked out. I heard it doing something last night. So you know, I adjusted. I just did some sun salutations, I did the ice bath, but I'm sitting there staring at the ice bath going. I don't want to do this. I don't want to jump in there. It's friggin cold. It's 15 degrees. What am I doing? David Goggins?
Speaker 2:says that's why you do it right.
Speaker 1:That's why you do it, yeah, like extreme ownership, right Like what's his name.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Jaco.
Speaker 1:Jaco. So like I know him, jaco yeah, me and Jaco and so I jumped in. You know it's like because I think about all the people that I do it for, and then I get myself out of the way. But what's funny is the initial reasoning to get into yoga and the reason you got into martial arts was totally selfish. I love it. It transformed me. I was looking for answers, it helped me find them, I, you know it got me this thing and it was totally selfish. But then when you really get into it, it's for the purpose of everybody else. Like there's this article about how yoga practitioners also selfish. You know my chakras and my kombucha tea and my hamstrings and my this and my that. And then you know, the article forgot to mention that you do this so that you serve others better and that, ultimately, is like my bottom line is am I still serving people better? Am I serving through what I've learned and what I can do?
Speaker 2:Put your own oxygen mask on first you know in the way the plane's going down so that you can help your kids or those around you who might need it.
Speaker 1:And so it's not really selfish anymore. I mean, maybe it started that way, but when you transition to that, I'm not going to use what I have to serve because it's served me so well. It's like this isn't really a job, it's like I get to do this and it's such a cool thing.
Speaker 2:I still genuinely feel that way every time I come and put my key in the door, or when I put my key in the lock up and walk away. It's almost like I'm getting away with something.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's almost like when is the gig going to be up? When am I going to get found out that?
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:All my students who have all kinds of other jobs high stress, high pay, frustratingly low pay they love it, they hate it. It's a job.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:And then after they come here at night, at seven o'clock at night, I'm hitting a heavy bag with a student and we have a conversation and he'll tell me all about work and the daily fire alarm is going to go off.
Speaker 1:I can't hear it.
Speaker 2:You can't hear it at all.
Speaker 1:Not at all.
Speaker 2:Okay, good, right across the street is the fire department.
Speaker 1:That's fun.
Speaker 2:They're near them every day, but I'll talk with students about their stress and that's why they come here, yeah, and I think I'm at work, it's worked for me. I'm rolling with somebody and you get to, I'm doing pushups with you know, ariela, I'm doing hitting a heavy bag or sparring with a student, and they do their whole day and their whole work day and their whole life, and then they come here after and this is what I get to do. So, yeah, putting the key in the door. You know I'm almost looking around like does anybody know? Like this is what I do. How blessed I am, yeah, I'm sparring or rolling.
Speaker 2:I'm at work.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's interesting. We had a flood a couple of weeks ago and had to replace all the floors and long hours, and just it sucked. I mean it was, it just sucked. And every time I walked in here those couple of days I'm like I got to do all this stuff because I have to get the place ready for everybody else, to make sure it's clean and sanitary and all the rest of that stuff, and I was just hating life.
Speaker 1:But then when the floors were done and I had a data, kind of like chill out, I get to go back to work, I get to go back to Red Lotus, and there was just that thing and I got to be willing to think that there's a lot of people out there that would love, would jump at the chance to do something that they love, and are just afraid. And it's not just fear. I mean, look, if you got a house and a kid in a car and a health insurance and all these things and you're like, well, I can't suddenly earn $80,000 to $100,000, you know, standing on a street corner giving hugs to people, well, that's probably true, you know, and there's other ways to go. But like, what's the suggestion you give to people. When they're sick and tired of being sick and tired, they're ready to make a change. They want to do something they love and they're just, they're stuck, like what do you tell them?
Speaker 2:Sometimes it's a change of perspective and they're just sort of down on the dumps because they've done it and they're in progress in a career that they wanted all the way along. And now they're to the place, the level they wanted to. And, you're right, they have a golden handcuffs about now wanting to switch.
Speaker 2:So, gratitude for where they are and the comforts they have. Sometimes it's a perspective change. Sometimes it's slight perspective change and maybe a bit of an outside change. Okay, what are you doing on the outside that isn't allowing you and obviously I'm going to, you know, believe that it should be on the mats, but on the outside that isn't allowing you to come down.
Speaker 2:Or you know, release from the day, but if it's something that's not serving them like bigger picture, not like I'm in a funk or I got a bad stretch or I'm going through a tougher time, but you wanted this and you worked for this and now you achieved this in whatever line of work you're in, give yourself credits because you have stuck it out and you know grinding through all different times and stages and ages of your life.
Speaker 2:And if you truly hate it, then you start saying, okay, what is a smooth transition to whatever you want to do next, and I believe you truly do. But if it's just going to hit I hate my job and it might mean something like then you start putting away more money in savings so that you can quit that job in six or twelve months, have enough bridge money to save and live without, you know, blowing up your standard of living unless you're comfortable doing that or there's a big change the kids move out or whatever and Then looking for it and not saying I don't want to start over because I'm 45 or 55 or 60 or whatever. You know, maybe, maybe it's something like that.
Speaker 2:So yeah and if someone's having a real hard time with it, I probably take it in. I listen to them and then I call you.
Speaker 1:Well, I find sometimes too, like people think it's got to be either or like I've got to quit this job to go do that, or I've got a, and sometimes there's like this middle way where I think you don't have to quit the job, but maybe go on sabbatical, maybe cut your hours, maybe go to part-time so you can add a second gig in, or maybe just start Finding ways to self-care better so that when you're at work You're not so miserable, you know, and because you got yourself so wound up and beat down, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's almost like they have, like these, four pots of water that are all boiling over on the stove. You don't? Have to turn in the stove off, but maybe turn it down.
Speaker 2:Yeah couple of, or, or even on the cut, you know, even on two or three of them. Sure, oh, like you and I talked about when I was leaving class today, I said the rest of 2023. I just have some areas that I'm sort of slowly phase out or cut back by 10, 20, 30 percent, and some other things that have been said is sort of simmering that are important to me and I've said it and and and, like yoga, and now I'm gonna back it up and prove it by bringing it More into my daily week by 10 or 20 or 30 percent and just that shift out of this one and into this one.
Speaker 2:But a little can make a big change.
Speaker 1:Well, I think, too, like the one of things I like about our friendship is that we can hold each other accountable. You know. So, if you say to me this is what I'm gonna do, and you tell me what it is, and I check back in with you in a week or two weeks, I go so how's the XYZ? And oh, you were paying attention, weren't you?
Speaker 2:Okay, well, I like that because there's that little part, because, damn, he remembered. Yeah, that's why I love him like that's a good life.
Speaker 1:That's why.
Speaker 2:I tell him stuff. If I don't want to know me accountable, I better not get, because he'll remember I Told you this is more though I'm. I try to be the same way for you or for students in my life or anyone my like. I'm a great guy to tell your goals to and your plans to and your commitments and everything. And I'm an awful guy because, if you go, I'm doing 25 push-ups every morning for a year. Every time I see you I'll go, all those push-ups going, yeah, I'll push you push ups yet today. Yeah, done here, let's do them together. I'll do them with you. But, like, then people go, I should have never told them. I'm just reminding you of what you said you wanted to do right and that's the thing is like the best.
Speaker 1:I think one of the best ways to to stay accountable is to tell somebody you know, you've heard it like the smart goals right, keep it simple, measurable, accountable, relevant time and and making yourself accountable. I mean, why do personal coaches, why do therapists, why do Physical coaches, why do classes work? Because it forces you to show up. Yeah, you know, otherwise we wouldn't show up at all, I think. Or we show up, we do, we quit. I mean, I, there are times I'll practice yoga at home and I'll be like, yes, 20 minutes.
Speaker 1:I feel like I kind of go, but I go to a class. I'm gonna be there for the full hour hour to get, like, you know, all that extra, you know, and yeah, it's kind of an interesting thing, it's not, it's, there's a I can't remember the phrase. It's sort of like the, the. The hardest part about being the teacher is that then you go to other classes and you're like, oh, I like what they did. I didn't like what they did. You don't really get it. You don't get your practice in as much anywhere, right, you look at it that way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, do you do that at other dojos, like if you travel and go check out another dojo and roll with some people on?
Speaker 2:Of course. Yeah, I'll end up, you know, I'll end up just trying to go as a student and end up sort of wanting just to help or something. But I never, ever want to step on the feet a lot of times. I'd rather go in and it's. It's getting tougher as I'm more connected in the martial arts world, that you get to world, but I'd rather go in and just, you know, I don't want anybody to know that I own a school or how many students I have or the ranks that I've achieved or the people that trained under me or anything. I'd rather just go in and not know, because I also get to watch the teaching.
Speaker 2:I'm not, it's not even judgment. Sometimes I'll be in there and there'll be a young guy, he's 25. He's a part-time teacher. He's only taught for a couple months, but the way he says it, it's pretty good or refreshing or different than I'm used to. Yeah, you know, there's a phrase in my world they say black belt eyes and you look through everything through that lens and I'm sure there's a yoga equivalent and there's a equivalent, sure, in medicine and in law and in accounting and in any. You know Profession and you look at through that and it's like trying to have beginner's mind, trying to come to it and say the way they're phrased it, they're teaching style. And yeah, there's other times I'll just be watching. Guy demonstrated, I go, should have rotated and demonstrated from the other side so that everybody could see, or whatever. Like that's a little bit judgment. Or it's even just me being used to Teaching people how to teach. It's not just me going Well, I would do it, but it doesn't matter about me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, part of it, but you get stuck in it.
Speaker 2:You get your head gets like you should learn because he's good, but he'd be even better if he did xyz right. And that's just my good in my head and it doesn't matter. We move on and I'm only there for a couple days. I hope them the best, but there are little things you know isn't, isn't.
Speaker 1:It isn't that hard, though, to not say.
Speaker 2:Pretty good if I'm the new guy about keeping my mouth shut.
Speaker 2:Yeah but if it's someone I do care about. I was in Arizona for a jiu-jitsu thing and we're, yeah, I was a guest of the school one day, not with everybody from the conference, I just went to one, I don't know, 20 minute uber, alay or whatever and the main guy I really like and he had some assistant instructors, but there was little in that time. There's a little bit more of a liability thing. They had a person there on the first day. There was wild and gonna get hurt or hurt someone else, and the other guy kind of didn't know how to handle it and he kind of looked at me and we had talked for a moment and so I said have to have watched, give my pen and paper, have just watch and take notes. There's the more he participates as the okay or the Tory doing the technique or have you done to him? He's wild, he's out of control, is way too intense, he's unskilled, he's new, he's, he's gonna get injured or somebody, and then you're gonna have some sort of injury liability insurance issue.
Speaker 2:Right, exactly so, but other than that, yeah, just enjoy. Enjoy the time to travel and experience always.
Speaker 1:Yeah, when I travel, I try to go to yoga studios I just wear a plain t-shirt. I don't, you know, nothing says red lotus and I just the radar just totally be under the radar. But you have a black well couple black belts. Like you just go in and without it, without a ghee, and just roll with them.
Speaker 2:No, I don't ever do that. I actually did that once, accidental, completely accidentally, and I don't do that like sandbagging people will do whether go in in a white belt and try to do that I don't do that. I don't do that at all.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I'll call ahead or send a message ahead or something or email or whatever. Or if I'm going to a city most of the time I know someone who teaches March large teaching you get through in that city, so I'll go and they kind of know I'm coming or whatever, but I just want to be a student that day in class. But you, I won't do the sandbag thing, where I actually did that accidentally once and I got screamed at in Portuguese, think I told you the story once.
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 2:Vegas. I was in Las Vegas at there's a big fighter Since retired, named Vonderley Silva. Oh yeah, he had a school, he had a gym and I was in Vegas for something else and I didn't think there was any chance, in the short amount of time I was there, that I'd be able to train or be able to practice. But I had an afternoon, friday lunchtime, ish Opportunity. So I called ahead young girl answers the phone. I said hey, blah blah, blah, blah blah. At the time I remember what rank I was, but I had five or five or ten years of jujitsu experience. I said can I buy a gi there? And I see in your schedule, can I do your noon jujitsu class? It says it's all levels, whatever. Because, yeah, of course, come on in. So I get there a little bit early. I buy a gi. You know, come for the white belt. I tell her. I said I'm not a white belt. Is it okay that I wear this?
Speaker 2:I'm not trying to pull a move, you know hmm, a purple belt or something at a time and and she was like, yeah, that's fun, it's totally fine, don't worry. I mean you know we have a really cool guest instructor today. You know he's a close friend of Vonderley and he's very high up in in his jujitsu family and you know he's only been in the United States a few months, doesn't speak much English, but you know you'd be great for you train with them. And I've heard the name. I thought awesome, some out there and meet a couple people. And I told a couple of the other dudes in the class I have trained, you know. So I'm not a total white belt, but whatever, they're very good and cool guys.
Speaker 2:The guy comes in, starts the class and shows us some stuff and we're rolling and rolling and he comes over Also. I mean just stops us and starts screaming and he's swearing at me in Portuguese and then there's little moments where, like there was someone there, that kind of translate, and he's like you think this is funny, you come in here and act like you've never done jujitsu. You're trying to come in here and then hurt people like you know, acting like you don't know, but you've trained, you know. And screaming at me and I'm like, no, I have. I'm like looking for the front desk girl Because she like went to Starbucks or something and I'm like I told her the whole story. I she knew that I was just buying a uniform to do one hour class, you know.
Speaker 2:And he was like get out of here, look. And then she comes back and she's like how's your class going? I'm like I needed you, where'd you go? And so she laughed. And then they like she could, she could translate. She explained to the guy he's told him a whole story and then he kind of laughed. He goes oh, my friend. And he's like he was like saying to her like no, no, you're not welcome, we're glad to have you here. But I thought I was gonna get jumped by like 10 Brazilians Because they thought I was a little younger and ever been stupid or whatever. But I literally it said I'm not trying to pretend, I don't know what I'm doing.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I sort of know what I'm doing, and then it looked like I was trying to act like that and I have people that you know done that here or whatever. But yeah, I do that. But it was a funny story about almost giving.
Speaker 1:Yeah, sometimes it's funny. Sometimes I'll go to a studio and if they ask me they go. Oh well, you've practiced quite a bit past. We have a conversation. I'll go yeah, I have, and you know. After the class and if they say, do you have any suggestions, I might say something If they did. If they don't ask, I don't, I don't offer it up, because then I'm just, I'm just some jerk and I, you know. Again, it's so subjective, it's just, it's my opinion. Now maybe my opinion is valuable after all these years, but you know.
Speaker 2:And I imagine for you if it was a new yoga guide. You like them and the and the. You know the way your personalities worked and yeah hey, and it might come from a place of, like I said, liability or or, or staff or any little comment, just a little nudge here there that I'm sure you and I got along the way from people that knew that world, so we're happy to pay it forward for sure, for sure, and and, and I always would love feedback and suggestions to improve.
Speaker 1:I mean, you know, you get so stuck sometimes in what you're doing and the way you've done it, like either I've really attained a level of of mastery or or there's more to learn and and you get stuck in that I know it all. Then you've you stop learning, and that's that's always the biggest problem with teachers Is I know it all. Um, yeah, it's kind of. It's interesting being Kind of in our unique chosen professions.
Speaker 2:It's uh, but you and I do it to this day will boss stuff off each other about anything small or big the layout of my lobby. I'm gonna give you a piece of furniture in the lobby when people come in. Yeah, give read.
Speaker 1:An event like this seminar like this, dealt with this situation and you and I do it still yeah, yeah, and it's 22 is like, even after all these years, um, like one little criticism and we're like Right, well, maybe your ego is not that fragile, but like I taught across the sunday so great class, even some of my more experience, more you know, people have been around a long time I were like something about today was just fantastic, thank you. And I got an email with a really negative feedback, like three out of ten stars, from a brand new student and I'm like yeah, what did I do?
Speaker 2:You know, like and the words should of those who are experienced could carry way more weight Than a brand new first timer to yoga. They should still Right, right there.
Speaker 1:So I emailed her back. I said hey, listen, you know I thought I taught a pretty good class that day. Clearly you didn't have a good experience, but can you tell me a little bit more about your experience so I can improve for next time? You know, just, I'd really like to hear what she has to say, like what, what happened for her that she had such a negative thing? So, and I will see if she responds a lot of times they don't, but it is what it is what do you think of, um, parenting as a martial art instructor, someone who really embodies it, you know, and All the lessons learned? Like, do you think you?
Speaker 2:use martial arts as a parent, or how do these parenting?
Speaker 1:Well, it's like, you know, people kind of look at us sometimes they go oh well, you know, they must have really good parenting skills because they have done a level of mastery and they're chosen profession or art and, um, I think parenting is just as hard for anybody and, you know, maybe I've learned a few things from one side, but it'll, I'm sure. I'm sure my kid is screwed up on the other side. Somehow it's gonna plenty to work out. She is an amazing kid, but you know, you know there's no handbook. You do your best, um, do you feel like, uh, there's Like it's given you extra skillsets or talents to as a parent?
Speaker 2:You know those uh um sticks that you can tie to baby trees and then as the tree gets older and can take the stick away. I think martial arts can be like that for me a lot of times In helping me parents I can remember that it's tough now but it's long-term good and it's worth it. Versus it's tough now, it's bad and we need to cut it off and fix it.
Speaker 2:And then martial arts helps you to learn that in a million ways. You're tired. Keep going. You'll find out more about yourself how you perform tired than when you're fresh. You're doing push-ups, your arms are getting tired keep going.
Speaker 2:But if you are injured, if your leg is broken and it's just a Tuesday night, you might need to be smart about addressing the injury. And I think the same as a parent. You can watch your kid do something difficult I'd even use the word moderately dangerous or challenging where they're not successful right away. You got to hold yourself back. You got to let them. You got to let them. Even if they fall, they bounce on their butt, a little bit like when they're diapers or when, if PJ goes out in baseball next week and he pitches and he just can't hit the plate and he's just pitching terribly and he's melting down on the mound and I can run out and take him out of the game, need to leave him in there a little bit.
Speaker 2:And then there are bad things. I talk with both of my kids my daughter, who's a little older she's 11 now, pj's still eight. We'll talk about little mistakes. I want you to have Big mistakes you can't make and, as the years go by. Big mistakes that teenagers make or whatever can affect their whole life, you can't. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:I'm so not looking forward to that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I mean having that with a daughter, but even with the son I have been different. With PJ, you're not getting a tattoo the entire side of your face. That's 16 years old. That's a big mistake because you know the rest of your life. You changed a lot of things about what's available to you and how people will perceive you, right or wrong. You will done that if you got a tattoo like that at 16.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:The little mistakes versus big mistakes. The little ones are hard to you know. So I can come back to frameworks, like I said, like that stick, that sort of gives the young tree something to hold and grow against and supported when it needs it and keep it close when it needs it and wants to go awry. And then, if we do a good enough job, when that tree's older and bigger and stronger, I can take the stick away and be confident in the strength of the trunk and the strength of the roots.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I think I can do that, you know, and not intercede the wrong times, but hold the reins tight in the right moments, and I think that has helped me parenting. I think I have two kids that are very, very different, as most people who have.
Speaker 2:You know more than one would say and knowing your kid and being honest, you know what your kid is like and what they need. And that's helped me a lot, because martial arts teaches that a lot Discomfort is okay. Stay in it. Recognition if I'm in a submission and I don't tap because I'm trying to be tough, I got my arm broken Right, not tough, that's stupid.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And so you know what I mean, so you learn all the ways to not get caught, this submission, but the humility to let you, you know, tap and move on.
Speaker 1:Right, right. Well, it's fun. I love watching you parent because you love it. I've never. I mean you really just. I want my kids laying on me on a Sunday morning watching TV and eating whatever and just being in it, and I just love hearing about you parenting. I mean, god knows, I love my daughter. I would do anything for her, but I always find myself busying up a little bit and not really spending as much Like I like to do stuff, like if I want to spend time with my daughter doing stuff when she was younger, you know she's like Daddy, let's have a tea party and I'd be like yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay, let's have a tea party. Oh yeah, and I can see you just diving into it like, all right, I'm going to wear a dress. You'll never wear a dress.
Speaker 2:I heard those actor in a round table want some actors to talk. I forget which one said it, but he's very smart. He's an actor you and I have seen in TVs and movies forever and he said there are a lot of advice and stuff because now these guys are in their sixties. Spend as much time as your kids as you can, as they'll let you, for as long as you can. You'll never regret it. It will pay you back 10 fold in your relationship with them. Those are deposits being made in that bank account.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And in lessons you've learned and now take and take with you going forward. So I think that's a really big part, for me at least.
Speaker 1:For sure. Now, what was your dad around a lot when you were a kid.
Speaker 2:He was. He was very business, very, you know, nine to five, but he traveled a little bit from here and there. I just had someone walk in my lap. Can we hit a pause?
Speaker 1:Yeah, let me hit pause.
Speaker 2:Sorry, give me one second, so I'm just walking.
Speaker 1:We're back. So in this time together, is there anything in particular you want to talk about? Is there anything any? You know life lessons message you want to convey to people who might be listening? You know, spoken from the mouth of the seafood yeah, Can I ask you a question? Whatever you want.
Speaker 2:So we know very much and we could go into it. Or I can answer briefly how I feel about martial arts, about discipline, about destruction of the ego, about meditation, about self discipline, about motivation and why you practice and care for others and everything. You know me well and you know the school of sort of the ethos that is the Rochester School of Martial Arts, all of my programs and me. Hmm, what does yoga have that martial arts doesn't get? What are we missing?
Speaker 1:That's interesting because I see them as really complementary, really Like on one sense. On a physical level, yoga can be very much a recovery from the physicality of our martial arts, just from falling and bruising and whatever. It also increases flexibility, which is super helpful for martial arts. But the focus on breath and concentration on breath and yoga has a huge benefit in martial arts, especially when you're stuck and you know what they say in a fight. The plan goes out the window after the first punch and after you receive the first punch, Now you're quoting the great Mike Tyson.
Speaker 2:I am Grandmaster and Hugo Mike Tyson everyone has a plan until they get punched.
Speaker 1:Exactly, and I've been punched in the face, sparring, and it all looks fun and games until you get hit and then you go into a stress mode and you have to breathe. And I imagine that for life lessons, the focus on breath is such a key ingredient in yoga and I know you focus on it. I don't know how much necessarily, but I find that when you have the ability to control, to work towards breath control, you can control everything else, because that's such a mental thing. And other than that, I mean I know that the meditations you do are mostly breath focused Zen style, and I like to do a lot of analytical meditation where it's, you know, breath is the foundation, then you move the brain into some other areas and things like that.
Speaker 1:That's just something I don't see as much in. I just haven't seen as much. It doesn't mean it's not there, I just haven't seen it, but they're so similar in their origin and structure and in nature, you know. I mean yoga is a martial, is a yogic art. Jiu-jitsu is a martial art and there's the foundation beneath it. Right, you know, if yoga isn't about bending and twisting and breath and navel gazing, what's it about? Getting happier, living your most fulfilled best life. And I would say and probably you would say the same thing about martial arts. It's not about breaking boards and breaking bones and being the toughest guy in the block or girl. It's about how you live your life with integrity and strength and respect and honor, and those are the life lessons that you get from this practice. So to me, they're just two sides of the same coin really. I think I agree 100% yeah.
Speaker 1:And I think that you know, look, if we interviewed a third person here from a different kind of martial art, you know what's your idea about it. And then you get into the whole karate kid. You know, not the wax on, wax off guy, but the other one, not Mr Miyagi, but the other guy who just, oh, it's about being tough, it's about kicking ass, it's about breaking boards. Well, it's a different mindset. There's room for that. There's room for gym yoga and there's room for goat yoga and puppy yoga. Well, those are all fun and you know, but for me, the heart of yoga is something that's just deeper, about the way you live your life off the mat. You know that you might not get at the gym, where it's more of a, more of a workout, you know, but there's room for both. So, yeah, that's my. I can find no flaws in what you do. I never have.
Speaker 2:I only see that there's somewhere.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for both of us. For both of us, I mean, I wish I could just pay rent through love and hugs and give this whole thing away for free and, you know, live on donations or something. But this is not the reality of the world we live in. So you know, I don't know, a thousand years ago, when you had a seafood, how did they live? They didn't get paid. What did you do? They? Here's a chicken. I don't know See if we got fed or if they were a monk in the monastery.
Speaker 1:Right, right. They stayed in the monastery begged for food, yeah.
Speaker 2:But a lot of them have a walkable practitioner, practitioners and founders of styles, whether their background was as a monk or, you would say, an ascetic or a philosopher. You might have worked at a university. There are people whose background this is the other proof, kind of the way you said about changing career. If I look on the wall and I have nine pictures of nine masters of different styles and it goes from monk, and then there's military background and there's businessman and there's university professor, then there's almost what we would equate to like a gym teacher. Then there's another businessman and then let's see here how many more of these than there was a founder and a more religious discipleship All over military, inspired in the combat side, philosophical, inspired from either university or meditative or spiritual monastery. Then how many other phenomenal martial artists that work at General Motors all day until six o'clock and then come to the mats here?
Speaker 2:I know guys that run great programs part time after work back in an industrial park. I know that they own multiple schools and they're huge schools. They have a ton of students and I don't think they're highly of them at all. Really, on a Chuck E Cheese.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Kids bouncing around, playing freeze tag and doing birthday parties and they call that martial arts. I have major issue with them even using that phrase. Right, they say that you run a daycare.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Just don't put them in a gi and charge the parents and tell them this Right, it's just these days and jumping jacks. It is In fact we do after school. You can have a snack and your homework and watch TV in our TV room. Then you're just a daycare.
Speaker 1:Just say just own it Right.
Speaker 2:But anyway, yeah, there's all kinds and ways that I feel about the different types, just as you do.
Speaker 1:Right, there's room for it all. It was interesting. I don't know why I was thinking about this suddenly and how it fits in. One of my teachers was a Tibetan Buddhist monk, but he started off working at a PhD. He was a professor emeritus or a professor at UCLA, berkeley, riverside of religious studies. He was a professor for years in the college realm.
Speaker 1:I grew up Baptist, I believe you know church three days a week and the whole deal and then became a Buddhist monk, shaved head robes and went around the country teaching and talking and working, leading workshops. He had a really big following. He just made things really easy to sort of understand and hear. And then at one point he gave up his robes and got married and I was like, well, why did you give up your robes? He says you know, originally the robes were designed to make you seem simple, like a beggar. You know that they had scraps of cloth that they wove together and made robes. And he says I don't want to stick out. So he wore t-shirt and jeans, like just changed over, instead of the shaved head. He grew his hair back again and wore a beard, still gave the same talks, but he didn't want to be burdened by like the look, you know, because that made you stick out, not blend in.
Speaker 1:And then he sadly got pancreatic cancer and he passed away a couple of years ago and I was talking to his widow and I said, you know, near the end did he fall into more Buddhist philosophy, like what was, where were his thoughts?
Speaker 1:What was? She said he actually fell back into baptism and that really gave him comfort and I thought that was really interesting because you know, when I was studying with him, I mean I wanted to be Buddhist at a hundred miles an hour and you know, live the life and do the whole thing and he reminded me that it's a raft to get across from one place to the other, but when you get to the next place you drop the raft and then you move on and you don't carry it with you. You know rafts are heavy and that, as much as we do and as seriously as you and I both take our jobs and as seriously as we treat our students and as much empathy and heart as we give them, most of them are going to go at some point and they will leave the raft. You know, and maybe even you and I will leave this raft. I don't see myself leaving it right away, but or you, I mean we're too. I feel like I'm too invested in what I do.
Speaker 2:I still love it, but then you're saying that we have what we started the conversation with, which was the students that have golden handcuffs at GAV or anything else. We are so far into it it would be very hard to leave or separate.
Speaker 1:Would be. It would be. I mean, I've been doing this 20 years. From time to time you think about it. From time to time you get burned out and go well, geez, what's next? I don't have a what's next, and if I did, that would probably make it really hard. But because I don't, I'm here as fully and as deeply as I possibly can be.
Speaker 2:Just like you are for the full hour when you attend a class, versus 20 minutes where you just dab yeah for sure. Like if someone's just dabbling because they have a career, they can try it and they sound a little least back in industrial park Then work out. They still have their career, right.
Speaker 1:But yeah, I mean, my raft still works for me. But I find too like there's other things that work too, like I'll go to the gym or I'll go hike in nature. I'll do other things, and that's also my yoga, and some people are like you go to the gym. I thought all you do was like you know what do you think? I think I just sat in a case meditating all day long and then you break and then sent me out to go teach break glass, to go teach, and put me back in there. I'm like, I'm a dad, I'm a human being.
Speaker 2:But also, maybe you're in your raft and I don't want to end the raft, this design to get from here to there. But maybe I'm in the raft, I want to stay in the raft and I can use the raft to usher others from one bank to the other across the river or whatever. I end up staying in the raft for my life, for the, the almost the entirety of my life. But, man, how many people could I ferry from one shore to the other?
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:And they enjoyed the raft while they're in it, but they're not in it forever.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:I stay in the raft and they could say you never got out or whatever you know but there was, there was.
Speaker 1:Did you read? So Tick-Not? Han wrote a book about the Buddha's life. Did you ever read it?
Speaker 2:I read it a lot, but I don't know which one exactly.
Speaker 1:Okay, Cause there's a bunch of them, a bunch of those stories, and he described the Buddha as being, at some point, someone who was like a ferry or a raft person who, yeah, like, and I never knew if it was an allergy or maybe that was his life, and I mean, who knows what was really written?
Speaker 2:about him and the book said Arthur, there's a big part where that's, where that's exactly what you know. Gautama does, gautama Buddha.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Part of that thing one side of the bank to the other.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, and I thought that was just. I love that analogy and and and there's a truth to it too Like you know what to pick up and what to set down Lama and Rue would talk about it all the time Like there's this idea of enlightenment and Tibetan Buddhism where you can emanate to all these places and be all these things to all these people. But that's very airy fairy, and when you come to real day to day life, it's well what to pick up and what to set down. And how many times have we been in a dead end job or a dead end relationship or a dead end mindset and just didn't have the courage to set it down. And then you set it down and you make space for something else and and then it's such a freeing thing. You know, it's kind of like you can accumulate all this stuff in your closet, right, you buy all this stuff Ooh, I got all this stuff and then it gets so full. You'll see what you have. You empty out, have your closet and you feel free.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Same same, same same same. I love that.
Speaker 2:I love that. I do too. I like that a lot and I like the idea of the whatever the enlightenment, samadhi or satori or whatever you want to call it, you know the achievement of enlightenment. And then they say before enlightenment, chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood, carry water. Right and like so. But is that after that light manner perspective, change the attitude inside of here and inside of here?
Speaker 2:they change quite a bit but your day to day, right After the ecstasy, the laundry you know, after you achieve it, then you still got, you know, bills to pay and not to feed and floors to sweep.
Speaker 1:So yeah, and that's what I'm going to go do next. I'm going to go chop some wood, carry water. Yes, sir, all right, is there anything else you want to say? Well, first of all, how do people find you? How do they find your dojo, I mean?
Speaker 2:we're in Ratchastra on 2nd Street. You know, if you Google Rochester School of Martial Arts on Instagram, there's a school of martial arts page. There's a zenmarchialarchcom has it. I'm not super high tech, but there's some pretty good stuff out there. We have some great staff and students that do pictures and video and clips and clips.
Speaker 1:You got a lot of Instagram stuff too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm on Instagram, the Instagram man. I sound like old man, the World Wide Web becoming a parent's commercials. But yeah, that's me, I'm okay with it. So the best is call or walk right in, because we can. By the way, day that we have an opening and someone can do their class, and that's the best way to know I can talk to you all about it and answer all your questions for sure. But it's like tasting an orange I can hold it up, I can show you. I can tell you that there's a lot of citrus fruits, I can tell you about the vitamins inside or how to slice it or whatever else. If you take a bite, you know, and until you do, you don't.
Speaker 1:Right, and I've been there. I love your dojo. My daughter goes there three days a week. She loves the dojo, the community, the people, the teaching, the teachers. It's really one of the top rated dojos in the country. But seafood down here is a little too modest to say so, so I'll say it for them. So if you're watching this and you're thinking about martial arts, check it out. I'm a brother. Thank you so much Love you Appreciate you very much, absolutely Thanks for your speaking All right, thank you.