Before You Cut Bangs
Hosted by Laura Quick and Claire Fierman, “Before You Cut Bangs” is full of hilarious conversations about real life, common and uncommon crises, and possible cosmetic errors that come along with it. Through storytelling and therapeutic wisdom, Claire and Laura share how to NOT fuck up your hair (and life) while walking through similar situations,
Produced by Will Lochamy
Before You Cut Bangs
2.14 The Passive Aggressive Dance (We're all doing it?)
It's Will this time! He's the one with the issue! Well, it's also Laura and Claire... and probably you.
It turns out passive aggressiveness isn't just about your one snarky friend. That disconnect between what we express and what we communicate lies at the heart of passive-aggressive behavior.
Welcome to, before you Cut Bangs. I'm Laura Quick and I'm Claire Fehrman. I am a professional storyteller and I'm currently working on my first book.
Speaker 2:I have worked in mental health for many years in lots of capacities and this is a really important time to tell you our big disclaimer this is not therapy. We are not your therapists or coaches or anything like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean you shouldn't really trust us very much at all. Unless you want to and it turns out well, then you can trust us. That's great.
Speaker 3:Okay, what is always worth the added expense, like spending a little more money even though normally you wouldn't, even if you're frugal.
Speaker 1:That list is endless for me I was about to say I can convince myself. You know, I gave up shopping for Lent. It's been terrifying.
Speaker 3:What does that mean? You have to buy stuff.
Speaker 1:No, I have. If it is not an essential which, let me tell you how I can bend that rule. If it is an an essential which, let me tell you how I can bend that rule. If it is an essential, I don't buy it until April 20th.
Speaker 2:Almost finished For me. I mean, we've talked about travel recently. I've said I can eat in a gas station, but I will spare no expense as far as where I'm sleeping Hotels. So to me accommodations for where I'm sleeping, I will pay more.
Speaker 3:Yeah, for sure, that's a great answer. More simple, like paper products. So like yes, toilet paper, even though I don't want to talk about it, but like printing paper, like I recently for our trivia games that I host, or whatever, like I give out answer sheets to.
Speaker 1:You don't want it to be on crappy paper. I didn't know that.
Speaker 3:But I bought crappy paper accidentally at like a dollar store or whatever and people I felt it and was like oh, that's crazy how thin this is. And people talked about it a lot, a lot.
Speaker 1:You were getting hazed yeah.
Speaker 2:I can't believe you don't want to talk about.
Speaker 1:I to talk about.
Speaker 3:I can believe it, but toilet paper is absolutely the same.
Speaker 1:Like he kind of turned red even saying I was gonna say, if I have to give an answer, I would say bedding, like sheets, really matter. They change the, the night sleep that you get, you know. And if you're a woman, you have to worry about my sheets giving me wrinkles. Sure, yeah, so that's what I would spare, no expense on.
Speaker 3:Very nice. What are we going to spare? No expense talking about today.
Speaker 2:Oh wait, there's a school bus coming oh.
Speaker 1:Hello children, this is a Front Porch episode.
Speaker 3:Guys, yeah, it's another Front Porch episode. Which is what we do on Front Porch we wave at the children, or the child, in that case One child in that big bus, lonely ride Singular child. They've been out for an hour or so Wow.
Speaker 1:Maybe that child belongs to the bus driver.
Speaker 1:Maybe, so, Okay, well, I had a recent experience that I thought I would bring to the show. I was in a meeting recently and a person who's not normally in this meeting, that I have regularly showed up we do not necessarily report to this person and she came at us so strong, very passive, aggressive, like passive aggressive AF, and it was off putting. And in a professional setting I was like whoa, it's just not something that I deal with a ton. Um, now, I have in history historically definitely had some clients like that, but man it, it really got me thinking like well one.
Speaker 1:It pissed me off and I didn't really feel like I could. I felt like it was trying to engage old Laura. She wanted to come out and be like well, bitch, let me tell you. But instead I was like how many people have complained just out of curiosity? And none, as it turns out. She was letting us know about a hypothetical problem that didn't actually exist and seemingly pretending it was our problem, but being like really condescending, very passive, aggressive, super rude, and it was just like an ick, right, yeah, so gross.
Speaker 3:Let's define passive aggressive, because because here's the thing, Like when you said like came out hot and whatever, when was passive aggressive? I think of passive aggressive as kind of opposite of like being stern and pointed and hot coming out hot right. Am I wrong?
Speaker 1:no yeah, you're not wrong. I think it was very like. Maybe I should reframe it. She asked a question. The question was can you explain to me why you chose to? That was? It was a tone of like there was no curiosity in the question, it was extremely accusatory, and so I think of that as a very passive-aggressive approach, especially in business, but really in anything. If you think about coming toward even me as your friend, if you were like, coming at me hot with a like, the tone of your voice is already so accusatory even in the question, like I know the answer to this and you were wrong and I'm throwing it out there like that. So that's why I said passive-aggressive. Um, but am I wrong about?
Speaker 2:that. No, I think there's different forms, um, of being passive-aggressive. The what came to my mind was more what Will was talking about. It's this like subtle. I feel like, for some reason, moms are coming to mind when moms might be like well, I'm sorry I offended you. I guess I'm the worst mother ever Like. To me that's very like well, when it's almost this victimization, I guess, of the self so like it's, I'm not mad, but you're upset but then say something about the situation that shows that you're mad which is kind of like what she was saying.
Speaker 1:She was asking a question, but it was clear in her tone she was deeply offended by the choices that had been made around a strategy that she was not involved in at all, which wasn't my fault. There was nothing I could do about it. I didn't have that choice to bring her in or not bring her in.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so passive aggressive could come out in that sharper tone and kind of accusatory. But passive aggressive behaviors could be being silent and ignoring somebody. I mean, I think the core in being passive aggressive is a complete lack of clarity, and the other person is likely sensing something's going on, but it's not clear what it is. So the recipient is like why does this feel terrible? Or you said icky, that's passive aggressive, so it could be louder or direct. I say direct meaning like a sharp question or something. But she still didn't get to the point. What were you about to do?
Speaker 3:I feel like this is gonna be the episode where I'm like oh, I am very passive, aggressive we cracked him finally after all this secret therapy.
Speaker 1:He didn't know he was attending. Well, go ahead.
Speaker 3:From sitting here one reading over stuff and hearing some of these examples. It's because of my trying to avoid conflict.
Speaker 2:Totally.
Speaker 3:That that all of a sudden makes me passive-aggressive, even though I'm not trying to be. But like the silent treatment, yeah, 100%.
Speaker 2:Say more.
Speaker 3:Well, like, oh, what's wrong? No, I'm fine, like. That, apparently, is a example but, you're brooding, yeah, but I'm real pissed because I don't want to talk about it. So I will like just avoid, and I don't think that I make snide comments, I don't think that plays but this whole like silent treatment and like saying I'm fine when I'm not.
Speaker 2:Because the person that probably knows you really well has sent something enough to say what's going on and you're like nothing, I'm fine, and then they're probably left being like, well, then, what the fuck is happening.
Speaker 1:Or then you I think this happens to me too like a lot, because Shane may be really pissed off about something that happened at work and in his mind he's like I just don't want to rehash it or talk about it, and for me I start just because of my attachment style. I'm probably a little bit like. So we're obviously falling apart and it might not have anything to do with me, but obviously it probably does.
Speaker 2:Even though he was direct, like that wasn't passive, aggressive right, so he could say, hey, I don't really want to. No, no, he doesn't ever say he doesn't.
Speaker 1:He's not telling me like, hey, something really shitty happened at work.
Speaker 2:He's just like, no, I'm good, but I'm like, well, clearly he's not in this Form, if it's nonverbal, since we're on, that is, I don't know why this is coming into my head. I'm like have I done this? Probably Like angrily loading the dishwasher you know Slamming a cabinet. Doing something physical.
Speaker 1:Will. This is really resonating with Will. Well, go ahead.
Speaker 3:Will already is oh no, like I don't want to call anyone out. Okay yeah, I don't want to call anyone out, okay yeah, but I understand that you might know someone, I might know someone who. That's the only way that I ever sense any kind of like I'm actually the most hardcore cleaner of all time.
Speaker 1:When I'm really mad, I'm going to start cleaning the shit out of something. You know, you know I'm mad because I'm in that kitchen.
Speaker 3:I hate dishes, but I'll load the fuck out of the dishwasher. See that for me that's like I'm in the best mood ever.
Speaker 1:I'm gonna clean like crazy oh right, if I'm super happy I clean.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, I'm super happy I've hired a cleaning lady no, she's, that's in desperation and I'm like I'm feeling low and really need somebody to help me. Um, so yeah, the aside from silent treatment is this more like physical doing stuff. I mean, there's stuff on Instagram all the time of like. If you ask your husband to do something and if he hasn't done it in 30 seconds, it's like, well, I'll just do it myself, like. To me, that's really passive aggressive.
Speaker 1:Very passive, aggressive. Okay, so let's talk about where this comes from, like where did? If you are a person that maybe struggles with this passive-aggressive behavior, whether you're loud or not, well, go ahead. Where did it come from?
Speaker 3:It comes from wanting to avoid conflict. That's it. So I don't want to talk about it, and so I'd rather give you the silent treatment.
Speaker 2:You know, you know, you know what's up it's so hard for me to take off therapist hat and I'll just say the question. I don't have to answer it. I'm like who modeled that for you? What was confrontation like in your home?
Speaker 3:Non-existent. There wasn't much no, there was. They were actually doing exactly what you did. I mean, I'm sure there was conflict, but it was a nice house. I mean't, there wasn't yelling, and stuff like that.
Speaker 2:I don't mean like drug addiction, yeah, I just mean your parents, which we did experience.
Speaker 3:They had to rub each other in the wrong way, sure, yeah, I just don't remember it like I don't remember it being something that stuck out grandparents a little bit and that definitely was like homer simpson back into the bushes, like Like I just, for whatever reason, my entire life, like I will just avoid I wanted to make my teachers happy. I wanted them to like me Like all of it across the board.
Speaker 2:Okay, so confrontation, fear of it, want to be liked, and then eventually we know from this podcast our emotions have to come out somehow. So, in the case of Will, he is going to not speak to you and feel all of his feelings alone.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, yeah sure.
Speaker 2:So, aside from conflict avoidant, it's, sometimes people don't really even know what they're feeling or how to even say. Let's use this client example. Maybe she was scared about something.
Speaker 1:I actually think now, because I've had like a couple days and I've uncovered like new layers of this particular client, I think she feels super overwhelmed and I think she feels like very alone and how overwhelmed, and so sometimes I think we look for something to control when we don't feel like anything's in control. And that can be where it came from. It's like a power play, a little bit of a like, a power move, like and maybe again, not because of us she didn't feel included in those conversations and wanted to be, and that's why it came out. So I have, at first I was pissed and then I felt like a ton of compassion around it because I'm like, damn, what must be going on that I don't know about, because this person, I think, is like wildly liked and like appreciated and highly valued, and so you know, I have to believe the mass majority is probably right on this, and it's not just like one interaction she had with me, but I also think this behavior can be modeled for you like.
Speaker 1:I think I think you can grow up in a household where this was like the norm and not your scenario necessarily will. But I definitely think when we get to the next segment, like that part of the like spotted or got it like that version of it, I definitely think I grew up in a household where that they it would almost be like they thought they were being funny, but it was super passive.
Speaker 2:I'm so glad you said that, because sarcasm can be such a funny piece of humor. It's highly passive, aggressive, and I'm sarcastic all the time and so I don't think every time I'm doing it. It's like a defense mechanism. But if you're responding in this kind of rude tone with the, with some sarcasm, that's absolutely a form of passive, aggressive behavior. So everything we've described as a defense, let me say that all again, everything we've described as a defense mechanism. So defense means I'm protecting something. So if I'm feeling a need to be passive aggressive, I don't think most people are even aware they're doing it. By the way, now Will is so sounds like you have some amends to make what an?
Speaker 2:epiphany. What a breakthrough. Typically in a defense, I am protecting something that is touched on, something that I like about myself, and what I mean by that is I think I'm most highly defensive if someone brings up my children. I think that would probably be fairly common for most parents. Of course, I would be highly defensive. Not only is that in my nature now, it's biologically given to me since I had these children, but a value of mine is that I'm a good mother. I hold it really tightly. So if that gets touched on, a defense will come out for me. So when I'm thinking about passive, aggressive people, well what is it that they're protecting? So to me it's either this is the only way I learned how to manage this it was modeled or something feels so bad I don't have my big boy words or big girl words to to use, so I'm going to be shitty, sarcastic, silent, slam some cabinets aggressively, load the dishwasher or say I'm fine, you've made this up in your head.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think like that feels very like the teenage version of yourself is showing up, right.
Speaker 2:Y'all know I love that.
Speaker 1:Like that girl that just went through puberty and she's like get out of my face, I'm fine.
Speaker 3:It's so funny because you're not reading anything, Claire or Laura here, but I have all of this in front of me.
Speaker 2:Are we right? Oh yeah, it's exactly right, yes. Like I'm fine, all of my education.
Speaker 3:It's fine. I'm fine If you say so. Yeah, it's fine.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, yeah, it's fine. Yeah well, this is life experience.
Speaker 2:Well, you can't make this shit up. Um okay, what about spotted? Or got it explain?
Speaker 1:what spotted or got it is. Well, we're gonna read out some scenarios and then we're gonna guess if these are passive, aggressive or they're just awkward hmm, it's a little game here. Okay, okay.
Speaker 3:All right, it's me versus Claire.
Speaker 1:All right, ready. Yeah Must be nice.
Speaker 3:What that's passive, aggressive.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, I hated that. Okay, no worries if not.
Speaker 2:No worries if not. Oh, I say it all the time. I refuse to say it's passive aggressive Gosh.
Speaker 3:I don't think that would be. I don't think it is either.
Speaker 2:by the way, I really mean it, and if I'm worried, that's my own fucking fault, because I said it, you know, and I am consistently worried. She's probably definitely worried, Like it is totally fine that we do it this way and then that's for me to work out.
Speaker 1:But I'm not mad at you about it, right Okay, I just think it's funny how oh yeah, it's passive-aggressive yeah.
Speaker 2:I can tell I have these visceral responses to the ones that are passive, it's going to be an easy game.
Speaker 1:Oh, you finally decided to answer your phone.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's passive-aggressive. I mean it seems just aggressive, but I think it's gonna fit in passive, aggressive and and rude level.
Speaker 1:spicy for sure, definitely spicy. Yeah, it could be playful but could be totally loaded. Because I will say, if you're my best friend, first of all, when I call shelly, if she has her children or I don't talk to her, and so when she finally, first of all when she re-emerges and those children are not with with her anymore, she will call me four times a day and she'll be like I guess our friendship is falling apart now and I'm like bitch, a whole week and you didn't talk to me at all and I don't answer my call because I am working. I am not not talking to you.
Speaker 3:How many kids does she have?
Speaker 1:So 25, five. Really it feels like 25, though Five, five as a single mom, five as a single mom. She gets a pass every week and I bust her ass too. Okay, I mean, I guess we'll just do whatever you want, not what.
Speaker 3:That's passive aggressive. That's very passive. That's very what are you talking about? That's incredibly passive aggressive.
Speaker 1:Claire just admitted how passive, aggressive she is.
Speaker 3:I just won.
Speaker 2:Okay, I think I heard it differently because I think I'm a little accommodating sometimes, so I would totally be like yeah, we can do whatever you want and I mean it okay.
Speaker 3:No, I do mean it like on vacation.
Speaker 1:We've talked about this I have a couple of friends who really like, are they? Particular, and I'm like this way, I'm down for whatever, oh yeah, the way she said it definitely was passive-aggressive okay, that's fine, I'm just picturing.
Speaker 2:I went on this girl's trip to Charleston a few weekends ago. It was magical and I told them in the most direct way I want to plan nothing, I will show up. I don't care what we eat, I don't care what we drink, and I truly meant it.
Speaker 1:Wow, which is a big feels like a real yoga Claire thing to do.
Speaker 3:That's me too. We talked about this on vacations. That's how I am. It is so soothing. She likes to be in control.
Speaker 2:I do, but I was so tired and I really meant it. So if they were like what do you want to do? I'm like whatever y'all want and I'm great with it.
Speaker 3:I love that Okay so that's a different tone. I think a tone would to do with it. Yeah, the way Laura said it was very past figure. What?
Speaker 1:about texting K period.
Speaker 2:Look, here's the thing Generational issue.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so I have the guy that I work with. He can't stand when people respond to a text with cool.
Speaker 1:What.
Speaker 3:And I respond to almost every text to him as that. And I was like oh, I was like well, dude, I got this on the air. I was like look, I was like, oh, I was like well, dude, I got it on the air. I was like look at our time. I was like every response to him is because I'm saying, okay, like that's okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, cool, I agree with that. Yeah, that's good. You should switch it to cool beans or yep he hates.
Speaker 3:Yep too. Anyway, which are the things I respond with? Cool and yep. Well, I was like a lot of times I'm like on a run or something and on my watch I can just like dink hit it and that's what it sends.
Speaker 2:But, whatever.
Speaker 3:But the point is people think that's very K or yep, or cool or whatever it's very passive, aggressive.
Speaker 1:I think that's just like such a a dude thing, like now I don't need to write a sentence to tell you I agree like I'm never offended if, if shane's, if shane's like, okay, like I'm like, or even like my brother, like I don't, I'm not like wow dick.
Speaker 3:Like it's an affirmative response it's an affirmative response. Well, I'm saying like yep or cool.
Speaker 1:I think k is probably the same thing, I don't know k period is aggressive, like you typed a k and then a period. That's like a hole. You had to switch keyboards. I do think this is generational.
Speaker 3:No, you just double.
Speaker 2:You're just like ending the sentence and then it automatically puts up when bobby and I have to purposely not put periods because it just oh yeah oh really, no, I don't need help, I'll just stay up all night finishing it. I mean obviously passive, aggressive, okay, guilt-tripping cross.
Speaker 1:Oh God.
Speaker 2:I think I might do some of that.
Speaker 3:When would you say that, unless you just actually wanted to stay up all night?
Speaker 2:I mean I literally go to bed at 8.30 or 9. I don't mean it like that. I mean I'll be like I will say I've got it and I don't got it. But I think sometimes in like marriage or with my parents, I'll be like no worries, I've got it.
Speaker 1:But then you finish the sentence and you say I'll just I'll work the rest of the week to get this over the finish line.
Speaker 3:I think that's very aggressive. When you add that I think even the no it it's cool, I've got it, or no worries?
Speaker 2:I think no. I think that's passive aggressive.
Speaker 3:I think you saying it depends again on the situation or the tone tone but saying like no worries, I've got it, can be passive. Aggressive I think when you add I'll just stay up all night and do it.
Speaker 2:What a twat to say that.
Speaker 1:Okay, this has actually happened to me. My sister's ex-husband once I visited them and he clearly hated me like legitimately hated me. He gave me a book once, and this is like 12 or 13, maybe 15 years ago. He was like, hey, and listen, they also have this on audiobook so you could even read it.
Speaker 3:That was sweet I would take that as a compliment, even though I know it's probably passive-aggressive or whatever.
Speaker 1:I was literally like you don't think I read like then. Then I was like I don't read that much. Yeah, I mean it's back then now I read 50 books a I mean a year. I love reading, but like reading or audiobooks. I'd say half and half.
Speaker 3:Yeah, because my brother and Danielle have this crazy list of hundreds of whatever books a year, but some of those are audiobooks and they still count that.
Speaker 2:I do half and half For the record. Unrelated to passive aggressive behaviors, audiobooks count. I don't like it when people say that they don't. I agree with that.
Speaker 3:Some people say they don't, it's still consumption. It's still consumption.
Speaker 1:And you're still learning. Okay, venmo request. That says $4.75 for the coffee you said you'd get me back for that's just aggressive.
Speaker 3:That's just aggressive. I think maybe just sending the request for it without saying anything would be passive. Aggressive possibly, yes, but saying the thing you were supposed to pay me for blah blah, that's just aggressive.
Speaker 2:Yeah, these are teetering on just straight up aggression.
Speaker 1:I'm thinking like these are pretty aggressive yeah if you do that, no one likes you.
Speaker 2:No, nobody in your life likes you, no, like nobody in your life likes you, your friends.
Speaker 3:I hate to say that your kids don't like it.
Speaker 1:I kind of feel like what we just learned is because, like I will say, I definitely am the girl who's angry cleans in the kitchen if I'm really pissed off about something, which I'm sure is passive-aggressive, because I'm saying nothing but my body is telling you. So, like the passive side is, I'm not saying anything but the way I'm moving around our house is so aggressive that clearly I'm not well and so, like I love that the spotted or got it is not just like the ick you would get if it was happening to you, but also like the epiphany of just like Will being, like I do that and you saying I think I do that.
Speaker 2:Was that the end of spotted? Or got it. That's just the end of it. I think I do that. Was that the end of Spotted or Not it? That's just the end of it, it was a fun game.
Speaker 3:I enjoyed it I almost feel like we need a game every time now.
Speaker 1:All right. So what do we do to move out of passive aggressive and into clear as fuck? Like how can we get?
Speaker 2:clear and kind. You know who's about to start is this guy? Yeah, I'll just go ahead and tell you what are you going to? Do? I'm not changing it.
Speaker 3:I'm not changing it Because I'm fine with it. It's a very peaceful way to go. Where's Danielle? She's resting or working out or something.
Speaker 1:No, I feel like we need to get her out of here. Oh yeah, no, she's not.
Speaker 3:But honestly, here's the thing. I don't like to argue. I want to avoid conflict.
Speaker 1:And so if something's bothering me, I would rather just stay silent about it.
Speaker 3:And then but where does it go? Oh I don't know. Eventually my brain's gonna like explode out of the side of my head or something, it doesn't bother like I can just think about it and then eventually talk to danielle about it okay, so you do, you do eventually talk about it some stuff, yeah, but some stuff also. I'm just like doesn't matter I'll talk to to Nick about it some, so you do put it somewhere. And you exercise a lot which.
Speaker 2:I think is a good release. I want to just shift something in your head. If you're upset in your mind, that will turn into an argument if you express it, which is interesting because it's almost like you just don't want the distressing feeling out there because it could turn into arguing. I hate arguing.
Speaker 3:But I can still be direct. I just won't do it. Yeah, I don't know. I think and I'm only referencing this with people in my life that I know are going to argue if I say to them what's bothering me. That's good adulthood and so therefore, I'm just going to like, just move on.
Speaker 2:So you have to weigh out if it's worth the potential risk or if this person is healthy enough to just hear.
Speaker 3:Obviously I'm not talking about with Danielle.
Speaker 2:We talk about stuff.
Speaker 1:Like that's an easy cover. You're not in trouble right now.
Speaker 3:Yeah, if something bothers her or me, we're gonna say it right, right, this came up.
Speaker 2:You have a really good the. What do we do with it? Um, about confusing versus clarity. I won't spoil that story or that like sentence in your company oh, oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So, um, I hired a co like two and a half years ago and I asked her for the first 90 days, you know, chief operating officer. We'd never really been big enough to have somebody like that that could kind of like run support for just really taking care of our people. And for the first 90 days I asked her to do nothing but listen and learn and ask questions, that's it. I was like I don't want you to change anything, fix anything, I just want you to like just listen and ask questions, that's it. I was like I don't want you to change anything, fix anything, I just want you to like just listen, ask questions. So after 90 days I went to her and was like so what have you been learning? Like what do you know about our company? And she was like, well, good grit has a catchphrase. And I was like, oh my god, what is it good news?
Speaker 3:and she was like no.
Speaker 1:And I was like expect good things are tagline. And she was like no. And I was like I expect good things are tagline. And she was like no. And I was like and she was like I'm confused. And I was like what were you confused about it? She's like no, that's your catchphrase. And I was like what do you mean? And she was like and then immediately I felt so convicted because what will happen is I'm not in the grind of every day and so sometimes I will come into a strategy meeting where people have been working really hard on something, and I will.
Speaker 1:I would have said something like hey guys, maybe I'm confused here. Okay, so this catchphrase came from directly from me. I said I'm confused all the time and like in a, she called it blessing their hearts to death. She was like what happens is y'all bless each other's hearts. And you'll be like maybe I'm confused. I think maybe we're confused. She was like the bad news is it has transferred into client conversations. So now you're showing up to clients and you're saying you know? I was like oh my, why did you wait 90 days to tell me? This is terrible? And so she eradicated using the word confused. In our culture. We cannot say it. We are only allowed to say I'm seeking more clarity. I think I need some clarity. I'd like to have a meeting to establish what the KPIs for this are so like. Anyways, that was the anecdote.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what made me think of that was passive, aggressive behaviors, including words, give no clarity and leave the other person guessing what is going on. So to me, if you're listening to this, I do not what he's just blushing because he feels convicted.
Speaker 3:No, no, I feel very Strong, empowered, Strong about it. Yeah, yeah, what. He's just blushing because he feels convicted.
Speaker 2:No, no, I feel very Strong, empowered, strong about it. Yeah, yeah, really yeah, because I think the person knows why I'm silent.
Speaker 3:I think they know I don't feel like I'm leaving them confused at all. Okay, yeah, like in whatever situation it is, if it's something they're oblivious to, then I'll be like, hey, listen, let's work on this or let's try to do better. No, and the situation is me being silent.
Speaker 1:They know what they've done. Okay, so we've been here too many times and that's why you go silent. Yeah, 100% Got it got it got it All right, so we leave the person guessing.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry. I'm sorry, let's leave Will out of this at this point. Don't listen to his advice.
Speaker 1:Agreed.
Speaker 3:I agree as well.
Speaker 2:He's very strong and empowered right now. But listen, when we started this episode, I think I like pride myself in being direct and clear and then, as we went through that, I was like, oh shit, I have some of these things that I do in stress, in shame, in like a case of the not good enoughs. I don't think it's often. It's typically with the people I'm closest to. I would never treat a stranger like that. So if some of these are coming up, recognize it, get clear. It's typically, remember it's a defense. What are you defending? Just say that and I'll give will some credit. You get to decide. Is it worth even addressing? Is withholding it and taking it somewhere? Healthy val, you know that might be more valid.
Speaker 2:There's your gold star, um, thank you but yeah, to me that's what we do with it. Get really clear now. If you're on the other side, I mean, I want you to answer for the professional side, but to me, if you're in relationship with someone that's incredibly passive, aggressive, that is a couples therapy thing.
Speaker 1:Well, I mean Gottman says sarcasm and condescension and passive aggressive behavior within a relationship is one of the leading causes of divorce. Yeah, what is he?
Speaker 2:I think he is of the leading causes of divorce. Yeah, what is he? I think he has like the top five or ten, yeah the top five.
Speaker 2:But that's in there, but that is 100% in. There is sarcasm and passive-aggressive behavior, damage, damage, damage marriages or long-term relationships. Sometimes the partner doesn't even know that they're doing it. They might even be defensive around that. That's why I said couples, therapists, having the unbiased third party. I think is really vital for everyone to feel safe and if you have just a really amicable partner who can hear it like, knock it off. And sometimes it might be like I live with someone that's just overly sarcastic and they think they're being funny but it's actually getting really hurtful. Just have the conversation.
Speaker 1:I will say this because I love sarcasm.
Speaker 1:I like eat it up, but there is a place it belongs sure sarcasm is is playful when it's not hurtful and when there's enough trust in the bank account of that relationship that you know, they know I'm totally fucking with you, like if they don't know that or and listen. Sometimes even in those bank accounts where you have all that trust in the relationship, they could just be having a bad week or a bad day and you say something and they're like whoa, that hurt me or whatever it's the whole like, yeah, I'm messing with my family members, like we're all joking around being sarcastic.
Speaker 3:and then someone yeah, I'm messing with my family members, like we're all joking around and being sarcastic. And then someone else says like I'm sorry, what?
Speaker 1:Yes, you said what Exactly yeah?
Speaker 3:It's like no, no, no, we're like joking around, we're siblings. You can't say that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we're a silly family and I think that's why we did the microphone, because I feel like like a step too far in the family and you have to roll out the fake microphone and say that you're sorry, but I will. So, like, from a professional standpoint, what I would tell you and this is even something I'm sorting out, because this just happened not too long ago for me, I think one consider the source of where it came from. So like, if this person, from a professional standpoint, is someone that you're interacting with all the time and this is a persistent and consistent behavior, then you might want to sort that out. Like think through a strategy, talk to a boss, a mentor or somebody of like how do I handle this? This is something I'm coming against.
Speaker 1:For me, this is a person I don't work with all the time. I don't report to them, so like this is kind of like I'm being curious about that, but I'm not gonna make that. I'm not gonna let this deteriorate this entire professional relationship because I just had this really shitty moment with this person. I'm gonna watch it and then, if it becomes a theme, I might circle back to it and figure it out. So like I say, err on the side of grace in professional settings, like let people have a shitty day.
Speaker 1:You don't know what people are going through, especially you don't work with them all day. You don't know. Did their dog die? Is their grandma sick? Is their child or two children sick? Like you, have no idea.
Speaker 2:I would even say that in family, like outside of marriage, generationally, like I think that was pretty common, like certainly some passive-aggressive behaviors and, um, I don't think like confronting your mom who's in her 70s about it would be very fruitful. Like some of them like let that shit go. Yeah, you don't have to, you don't have to address everything again.
Speaker 1:What's your level of consumption with this person? Good news for will you don't have to address yeah, you don't. What's your level of consumption?
Speaker 2:with this person. Good news for Will you don't have to address everything. Yeah, you don't. Thanks.
Speaker 1:As you guys know, we're having our first ever yoga retreat this weekend.
Speaker 3:Yeah, this will come out. Oh yeah, the day before, yeah that's crazy.
Speaker 2:It's sold out, it's sold out.
Speaker 1:That's no surprise, and we just can't wait.
Speaker 3:Should I FaceTime in?
Speaker 2:Yes, Okay, to each person individually.
Speaker 3:Okay, we'll go around the room Super weird. Get some questions from them that they can ask and I'll answer.
Speaker 1:We're going to have a Q&A, campfire, a spotted or got it.
Speaker 3:No joke, I would love it. If they all have some kind of weird question for me or whatever. I will answer everyone.
Speaker 2:Do you hear that?
Speaker 3:What time is?
Speaker 1:this going to be All day, all day, and we're going to do like a yeah, so it's like a 9 to 10, until literally the next day at night.
Speaker 3:Well, let's make it evening-ish.
Speaker 1:Okay, fine, we'll call you in the evening. We got stuff.
Speaker 3:Hey, and, by the way, to finish, when I said like, oh yeah, I do eventually like talk about those things with Danielle and Nick, I really our little befores and afters oh, I thought you meant you'd give us a silent treatment and I was like I'm completely a boy. No, no, I tell you guys more about the stuff that frustrates. No, no, I vent to you guys.
Speaker 2:We'll take it. That is so satisfying.
Speaker 3:Off of the mic, obviously, duh. Okay, actually, those are gonna erase it bye y'all.
Speaker 2:Well bye before you cut bangs. Is hosted by laura, quick and claire fearman, and produced by will lock me, follow along with us everywhere.
Speaker 1:Please subscribe to the podcast. Find us on Instagram. We're constantly doing polls. We want to know what you think, and I know that you probably know this, but reviewing us and giving us five stars matters more than anything, and we are so grateful to have you here, thank you.
