Updated AF Collective
Welcome to the "Updated AF Collective," podcast where we celebrate the power and resilience of women.
Join me as we dive into inspiring stories, engage in meaningful conversations, and explore topics that empower women from all walks of life.
We believe that every woman has a unique strength within her, waiting to be unleashed.
Whether you're an entrepreneur, a leader, a creative, a caregiver, or simply on your own personal journey, this podcast is for you.
Updated AF Collective
Unlocking the Power of Psychedelics for Women's Health with April Pride
Join us for an enlightening journey with April Pride, a visionary in the cannabis and psychedelics industries, as she unveils the intricate world of mushrooms and microdosing. Discover how psychedelics are reshaping therapeutic approaches to resistant depression and major depressive disorder, with April offering insights from her pioneering work at Van der pop and the educational platform, SET SET. We unravel the complex dynamics between psilocybin, serotonin receptors, and hormonal changes, particularly emphasizing how these factors play out in women's health. This episode promises a deep dive into the nuances of microdosing schedules and their potential to transform stress management and break unhealthy habits.
As we wrap up, April brings clarity to the trending topic of functional mushroom coffee. We break down common misconceptions and the importance of sourcing from reputable suppliers, steering away from dubious platforms like Amazon. April's seasoned perspective helps us differentiate between functional and psychedelic mushrooms, equipping listeners with knowledge to navigate this evolving landscape.
Friendly reminder- Magan and April are not medical doctors. If you are experiencing a mental health crisis, please seek immediate medical attention. This episode was created for entertainment and educational purposes.
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Hey guys, welcome back to Updated AF Collective, the podcast. I am your host, megan Wirth. Happy November 1st. We are officially in like the fun holiday seasons. That's just my personal opinion. You guys might be summer people, but this, this is the season where I feel like I thrive. I get to wear my knee-high boots with my skirts and my turtleneck sweaters. This is like my favorite time of year, just because I thrive in the cold and the dark and the gloomy. I don't know what it is, but when I look out my window and I see that it's like overcasted and rainy and I get happy Is that weird? That might make me like, I don't know, like serial killer vibes or something like that. I don't know, I just love this time of year, I love the cold, like that. I don't know, I just love this time of year, I love the cold. I would thrive in Alaska where it's like dark most of the year. I don't know, it makes me happy. But anyway, that's not what we're talking about.
Speaker 1:Today's episode is so exciting, it's so different, because here on updated AF we're continuously learning. So I had the privilege of bringing somebody on the podcast. That's like so interesting. She's an entrepreneur, she's a boss, babe, and she's, she's just so cool, like I feel like if I lived closer to this woman, I would make her be my friend. She's just so cool, she's drop dead gorgeous and she's educated, she's smart and she's a mom. So who am I talking about? Okay, her name is April pride and this episode is going to be on mushrooms and psychedelics. Yes, yes, ladies, because this is a hot topic.
Speaker 1:I listened to other podcasts and I've also heard other podcasters talk about like mushrooms and psychedelics and micro dosing, and I really I know what it is, I have an idea, but I but you don't know, right, you don't know what you don't know. And so when I found April on social media, I was like immediately intrigued. I Instagram stalked her and I I was like this is what I need, this is what we need on the podcast, because it's a hot topic, it's a trending topic. Microdosing is becoming a thing and it's like you hear about it, all these like retreats going on on the West coast, like Oregon and Washington, and I've heard about like microdosing retreats and I was like what the hell is this Like? Who you know who's going to this? Like what is it for? Who is it for? And that's why I pulled April on this podcast, because and she was like so nice and so patient with me because, like, of course, like me not knowing a damn thing about psychedelics and mushrooms, I mean I literally you guys will hear it in the interview I was like, oh, I've tried the coffee. You guys know what I'm talking about, the mushroom coffee. That's like all over social media. Yeah, it turns out it's like not psychedelic mushrooms, but so, oops, yeah, no, she sets the record straight. I'm going to read a little bit about her to you guys right now.
Speaker 1:April pride is a serial creative entrepreneur who has been developing brands and products for 20 years across lifestyle cannabis, psychedelics, podcasting Yep, she's a podcaster, guys and more. April turned her visionary focus to cannabis in 2015 and launched Vanderpop. Quickly recognized as North America's leading female-focused cannabis lifestyle brand, vanderpop published 2017's Women in Weeds survey and the industry's first comprehensive report on North American women's thoughts, feelings, beliefs and behaviors. Vanderpop was acquired by Canopy Growth in 2018. That's what I love about her, you guys. Her studies are focused on women and women's health, and we'll get into that in the interview.
Speaker 1:After successfully exiting the world's largest cannabis company, april continued to serve the women whose trust she earned as an advocate for normalization, as the creator, strategist and host of how to Do the pot and the high guide podcast, including 150 audio episodes. Most recently, april is the CEO and founder of set set, and that's we'll be getting into a little bit in this episode. This accessible psychedelic education and integration platform is a member community with medical provider created guides and courses. April has spoken to tens of thousands of women throughout North America on topics including cannabis use of the modern woman, marketing leads to women sex cannabis products, and brand design and entrepreneurship. April is a designer by training and holds a master of arts degree from Parsons School of Design and a bachelor of arts in architectural history from the University of Virginia. Sorry, guys, it's early. April is included on the inaugural High Times female 50s list In 2021. She was awarded most creative cannabis entrepreneur in the U S by the commercial cannabis awards.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you guys, she's very knowledgeable when it comes to this and I wanted somebody with this knowledge to come on the show because I feel like, yeah, it's a hot topic, but we need the facts. Sound like a police officer, like nothing but the facts, and that's what she delivers today you guys are going to fall in love with her. Go follow her on social media. Her links for social media and how to get ahold of her, if this is something that resonates with you, are all in the show notes. And, yeah, like I said, like one, you're going to learn a lot, because that's what this that was the whole point of this podcast, anyway is like to bring women on from all walks of life, different parts of the world, um, with things that, like, are so different from what a majority of women out there are doing, because I want to represent all women and this woman is doing something that I feel like is changing One. It's changing the stigma around microdosing. Psychedelics in a safe way, so sit back. Psychedelics in a safe way, so sit back, grab some mushroom coffee and enjoy this episode. See you guys next Friday.
Speaker 1:Welcome to the updated AF collective podcast, where we celebrate the power and resilience of women. Join me as we dive into inspiring stories, engage in meaningful conversations and explore topics that empower women from all walks of life. I believe that every woman has a unique strength within her waiting to be unleashed. Whether you're an entrepreneur, a leader, a creative, a caregiver or simply on your own personal journey, this podcast is for you. Together, we'll share stories of triumph, discuss strategies for success and provide a supportive space for women to connect and grow. Get ready for real, authentic conversations that ignite your inner strength and inspire you to chase after your dreams fearlessly. Welcome to the Updated AF Collective. Hey guys, welcome back to the show.
Speaker 1:Today I have a really interesting guest and as soon as we DM'd each other, we found each other on social media. Immediately. I was like yes, because here on Updated AF, I love a woman, especially a strong entrepreneur, ceo, business owner, woman who can teach us something. This is a topic I don't know anything about. I've never done anything like this, but, of course, I have a thousand questions because I just I want to learn about it. It's so fascinating. Her name is April Pride. She is a Seattle-based serial creative entrepreneur whose work has been featured in Forbes, vice, the Guardian. She's developed brands and products for 20 years. In 2015, april turned her visionary focus to cannabis with the launch of her Vanderpop, a cannabis lifestyle brand acquired by the world's largest cannabis company. Three years after launch, as the CEO and founder of SetSet, april created the world's first clinician-approved women-focused platform for safe, accessible psychedelic integration. April, welcome to Updated AF. I am so honored to have you on here.
Speaker 2:Well, thank you so much for having me, Megan. I appreciate it.
Speaker 1:I appreciate you. Okay, let's just start from the beginning, because I have a thousand questions but my ADHD tells me let's start from the beginning. Talk, talk to me about who April is. Let's start there.
Speaker 2:Um, oh, that's a bigger question. That's a big question. Professionally, I've been described as a creative entrepreneur, and I think that is the best way to describe me. I get an idea and, yeah, I can't let go of it, so it typically results in a product. Most recently, my product for the last five years has been podcasts. I've had a podcast about cannabis, and three and a half years ago I started one about psychedelics, and I have focused on women for the last 10 years. I love that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that has been a gift to be able to I don't know give voice to what I think is. You know a very important topic and one that doesn't get enough airtime. That is women's health, and you know that women should be able to make unorthodox choices if they feel it's best for their wellbeing. So about two years ago, I started working on a card deck an integration card deck that you can play when you're under the influence of low dose psychedelics. And then this summer, I launched a platform that has educational downloads that that help you prepare for psychedelic experience courses to microdose, courses for integration uh, either while microdosing or after a large dose experience and I partnered with a licensed therapist. So all of our content is evidence-based and clinician backed yeah.
Speaker 1:Is that like an app or is it website soon to be an app? It's a website, I feel like.
Speaker 1:I feel like it needs to be an app, because maybe I mean maybe that's later on down the road, but having that information in the palm of your pocket. Because I feel like it needs to be an app, because maybe I mean maybe that's later on down the road, but having that information in the palm of your pocket, because I feel like and correct me if I'm wrong, but we're going to get into this but taking this type of prescribed medication for women is going to help with a lot of things, whether you're traveling or whether you're out with friends or whatever you're at home. But having that information in the palm of your hand could be so useful. I can see you creating an app one day. So how did you get into this field?
Speaker 2:Cannabis I found kind of by accident. I had a fashion company and one of my clients came in and told me that she had just gotten a job at a cannabis holding company which owns Marley Natural and a large Canadian licensed producer, and she was the executive assistant to the CEO and she said that she's reading all his emails and there's nothing that was coming in that was really focused on a brand or products. From a designer's perspective, it was just all sort of more of the same, which really surprised me. This is 2015. There was already talk of cannabis. It was legal in various and a handful of states, including here in Washington state.
Speaker 2:So I just thought, as a creative, we don't get a lot of opportunities to do I don't know to be a part of an emerging industry, frankly and so I was really really excited by it. I asked her if I could take her out to dinner and ask her more questions and we both met a guy that owned the restaurant and he asked what we were talking about and she said I'm trying to convince her to launch a line of luxury cannabis accessories and he said if you do that, I'll give you your seed capital. And then it was just like off to the races and so, um, through that process, I'd never worked at a corporation before. I've always been, I've always worked for myself, and after I sold as you mentioned in the in the intro, to the world's largest cannabis company, um, I realized that no one was going to take care of the women who I'd been speaking to for three years. Right, they really the companies. Just that's really not what they're in the business to do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they're in the business to make profit, not to care, Not to care, and so yeah, so then when I left, I had been traveling to the East Coast in Canada, to Toronto, from Seattle and had two young sons, so I started a podcast, so I didn't have to go anywhere, and then the pandemic hit. That was in 2019. The pandemic hit in 2020. And yeah, so I just I stayed put, I focused on podcasting. Thankfully I didn't need to go anywhere on on podcasting, Thankfully I didn't need to go anywhere.
Speaker 2:But a couple of years and I had partnered with somebody. I didn't feel like, um, that partnership was really allowing me creatively to to, you know, do new things Right. I, I too, have ADHD, so I like, I like novel, new, shiny objects. And I was really, really curious about the discussion on Instagram around psilocybin and the fact that women who were cannabis influencers were talking more and more about mushrooms, magic mushrooms and so I decided you know this sort of merges with what was happening with me personally I knew I was six months from moving out of my family home that I'd lived in for nearly 20 years and my ex-husband was going to stay there with our boys, and you know I would get a new, great place.
Speaker 2:But you know, I was the one making this big transition. And so, yeah, and so I thought, well, you need to be on kind of autopilot for the next six months probably. So I launched this podcast and the first season was about high potency THC. And then after that, we started getting into mushrooms and I really started to understand what the intentional use of psychedelic medicine should look like and and how it's helping a lot of people, but primarily women. Yeah, what's the name of this podcast Set set show? It was called the high guide and then now it's set set show.
Speaker 1:And it's. Are you still active with it? Are you still producing episodes?
Speaker 2:We're about to launch some new episodes. Yes, In the next couple of months we'll start to roll them out slowly, but yeah.
Speaker 1:Perfect Cause. Anybody out there listening right now to this episode. I'm going to make sure I link your podcast in the show notes so that everybody can go check it out, because, again, you're right, this is a hot topic, especially the mushrooms, because they're putting it in mushroom coffee now, where it has the low dosage, and I feel like the stigma around all of this is slowly melting away, because I mean correct me if I'm wrong, but there's just like so much judgment around all of this and it's like but sometimes like it's, it's a medical necessity, right?
Speaker 2:I mean, I would say that in many cases it is because there's treatment. So ketamine, which is not mushrooms but it is the only legal psychedelic and there are, you know, I feel like ketamine needs to come with a black box warning. It's the only psychedelic that is legal. It also happens to be the only psychedelic that is habit forming, that really is prone to abuse. So it is not. It is in the same category as cocaine to me.
Speaker 2:If you think that you're going to have a problem, then you probably shouldn't go near it, right, um, um, but unfortunately it happens, or fortunately happens, to really work for treatment, resistant depression and for major depressive disorder. So if you're having suicidal ideation, the reason I paused and I hesitated to say if it's medically necessary, it's like, yeah, if you are having suicidal ideation, there aren't a lot of options. The ketamine will. Within an hour you will stop having those thoughts and so that feels like very much a medical need. And so where the other medical needs come in is again, like they're just the current interventions aren't working for you, or the side effects. Like if you're taking SSRIs and you're looking to microdose psilocybin as a way to mitigate depression, then you know 30% of people who take SSRIs. They don't work for them or they have side effects that they don't really like. So, yeah, if you want to take care of this core issue, which is depression, but you don't have other options, then yeah, I guess that's when it becomes medically necessary. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay, let's talk about your products and what you offer, because I'm new to this. You have to excuse my ignorance. I'm here to learn. I feel like I'm in a masterclass right now and I have a thousand questions. So let's just go down the line of like who is this for? What products and services you guys offer at your company? Let's just start from there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that you know, I don't want to like say we're for everybody, but we do have two distinct types of consumers, right, that are really curious about psychedelics right now. One are people that have already tried them, but they, like me, did it at a time when there was nothing being measured, there was no intention that was being made, there was no talk of integrating. Afterwards. You would just go out and have Bloody Marys with your friends the next day or whatever, right? So there's that group of people. And then the other group of people are people that never, probably even touched cannabis, right, and I have found, anecdotally, that women and people in general are so much more open to mushrooms than they are to cannabis.
Speaker 1:There's a lot.
Speaker 2:I think because there's so much talk around stoner culture and people really identify with that, but there hasn't been the same amount of ink and airtime given to to mushrooms, right Like there just hasn't hasn't been um villainized as much in society. So we do serve the new consumer and also I would say we call them born agains, like people who had tried it and are maybe now back at it. But yeah, it's essentially anyone that's like trying to use these medicines intentionally.
Speaker 1:Okay, that's so interesting. Again, going back to like the stigma around it, but there's not, for, I feel like, for mushrooms you don't have, you don't have a picture of somebody in your head when you, you know, hear your friend or somebody, cause I have friends that do it too and, like I said, now they're putting it in coffee, so everybody's very open about it, and this new mushroom coffee and then the micro doses that they're putting in it. There's like brands on Amazon that you can buy. So I've, I've been hearing about it, but these are girls like you and me, so I'm just like, okay, so there's no stigma. There's no, there's no picture of a stoner in my head, you know, versus when you say something like cannabis.
Speaker 1:But yeah, so for the, for the new people that want to try it, is there like a recommendation or a special dosage or like what do you tell these, these men and women that want to try it? Get into it? And then what are the best? Like I guess not side effects, but like what happens when you take it. Like what happened is your mood? Does it calm you down? Does it relax? You take somebody from ADHD down to calm the fuck down mode, or I don't know what I'm saying. Do that make sense?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. So I would say I want to back up for just a second. I think any coffee that you're buying on Amazon does not have psilocybin mushrooms in it. I think it probably has functional mushrooms in it, like cordyceps, lion's mane, but not psilocybin. Not the real stuff. Okay, probably not, you know, not the real stuff. But there are companies that do sell microdose psilocybin mushroom coffee beans that's infused, so that is on the market. I just don't know that it would be on Amazon.
Speaker 2:So what I have found? Let's just talk about mushrooms, right? Because if a quarter of the population in the US has taken a psychedelic in the last year, half of those people it has been mushrooms and then the majority of those people it has been microdosing, right. So that is really where people are right now. They want to try this new, new I'm air quoting this new option to option to. Frankly, everyone's just trying to get unstuck. I find that people are coming to microdosing psilocybin if they know they need to make a change, but they don't know what it is. Or they know what the change is but they don't know how. Right.
Speaker 2:So what happens is physiologically, neurologically, what is happening is throughout our life, we have these patterned. We have patterned behavior, right. So when this happens, I do this. When I'm stressed, I eat. When I'm stressed I drink. When I'm stressed I go inward. You know, when I'm confronted by this family member, this is what happens, right. And so those end up. Those behaviors in our brain are like these well-worn grooves, like tire tracks, right. And so when you take any dose of any psychedelic, it's like snow falling in those tracks, filling them in. So when you're triggered by the same event, all of a sudden you don't just do your knee jerk reaction, that same behavior. You look at the landscape and you're like I don't see the tracks, I get to make a new choice, right. So that's what's happening. It's this neuroplasticity where our brain is developing new brain cells and new neural pathways so that we can choose differently. That's the big thing that's happening with psychedelics.
Speaker 2:And so whether you're taking a small dose or a large dose, it's happening. So small doses, I'll get into numbers. It may not make sense to a lot of people, but at least you'll have them. So a standard high dose is three and a half grams and a microdose is 0.3 grams or less. So 0.3 grams is really for a guy that's like 200 pounds and over six feet tall. I haven't met many women that are taking that dose, if any. Okay. So that's considered a lot. That's a.
Speaker 2:It's a hot, like you're going to feel something. You're going to feel altered. Even though it's very low, you're still going to see things will look altered. My dose is a 0.15 gram. It's half of that and I find that it's. Any women are anywhere between 0.1 and 0.2. 0.2 for me.
Speaker 2:I am definitely altered, I know that I am, and anything that you take in terms of microdosing needs to be sub perceptible.
Speaker 2:You shouldn't be able to know that you're altered, right, it's happening behind the scenes, and so there are three rules to microdosing One, you can't do it wrong. Two, you shouldn't feel it. And three, you need to take rest days. So the protocols there are several protocols that you can choose from. Protocol is like the dose and the schedule, the cadence that you're taking it. So the the protocol that we, that we have put forth and again I partnered with the licensed therapist is you, you take your dose every three days. So you take it on a Monday and a Thursday, sunday, wednesday and every three days, right? So when you're getting started, you wanna start with about 0.05 grams. Take that for a couple of doses, then you wanna go up to 0.1 grams and then you do that for a week and then the next week you'll do 0.15. And what that allows you to do is see, like where you're starting to feel, or see you know like if it gets too much.
Speaker 1:You're not supposed to feel it, so you just backtrack a little bit and take a little bit less right. Okay, I'm tracking this is interesting.
Speaker 2:So the important thing about this protocol is that there are rest days, and oftentimes people have their most insightful moments on the days that they're not dosing. Now there are other. There are other schedules. One's called the statements stack, and that is you take your micros for four days and then you take three days off, whether you're doing the statements stack, and that is, you take your micros for four days and then you take three days off, whether you're doing the statement stack or you're doing what's called the Fatimans protocol. These are both named after men who have been working in psychedelics and mushrooms for decades. You have to you. You you do that schedule for one month and then you want to take two weeks off and then come back to it for a month, and then you want to take two weeks off and then come back to it for a month, and then you want to take two weeks off and you do your first round for three months. And for women in particular, that's important because you want to be with the medicine for three of your cycles, so you know how it's working throughout the month.
Speaker 2:Because psilocybin interacts with our um, with our serotonin receptors, and estrogen is also a serotonin agonist. So if you've got more estrogen in your system, it's going to affect you differently than if you have less. That is also true depending on where you are in your life cycle with female hormones. So if you're perimenopausal or menopausal you're going to have a different outcome or effect than if you are, you know, more regular later, earlier in your life. So, um, so how that applies to to larger doses is if you're going to take a large dose of mushrooms, you want to do it, um, in the middle, so between when you have your period, so it's called the luteal phase.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I know about the different cycles and everything. I love when you go and backtrack just a second. I love when you talked about what it does to your brain and it builds those new neural connections. It's like a gentle just a gentle disruptor coming down and, like you said, we all have these micro habits that we create throughout our life and some of those habits are really really bad, really toxic or just habits that we want to break. But I like that.
Speaker 1:You said that taking a micro dose kind of will like calm you down, maybe make you think a little bit more clearly and then build a new neural connection of saying, like I don't like when I, for example, yell at my child, you know when she she triggers me or she does this or she does that and you know like that's what I can think, like there's so many moms out there Most of my listeners are moms, but there's so many mothers out there that we're just walking around in survival mode and we need that glass of wine. That was me for years. I was that new mom who, like I, would wait till 5 PM because I was so stressed out and I was trying not to snap and but if I had something I feel like just to calm me down, because they tried to put me on some antidepressant just to calm me down, but it didn't work. It just made me tired. It made me feel like shit. But having something different with little to no side effects, right it just just to kind of redirect me, have that gentle disruption in my you know my habit of just reaching for that glass of wine.
Speaker 1:Maybe I could have done something a hell of a lot better. I feel like maybe my, my motherhood would have been better. If that makes sense, I like that. So I could feel like and are most of your clients women? I feel like this is. I feel like women take more stress in the world than men. I'm sorry, don't, don't cancel me. I'm not anti-man on this, on this podcast, but I feel like we're we're the primary parent where we're taking in the stress of life. I feel like everything's always put on us. Are most of your clients? Just come to you and they're women.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I don't have clients, I don't. I'm not a coach, I'm not a medical expert yeah, I have. I've created education that people can download, and we do focus on women. Our show is really focused. The podcast really focuses on issues that women would be most concerned with, and I I think what set, what sets set set apart, is that we are talking about female hormones when we're talking about the physiological effects of these, of these different medicines. Right, so you just for women. We can't take our hormones out of the equation. They run our life. Yeah, so so we did. We launched. Okay, so when we launched at the beginning of September, we launched with a membership.
Speaker 1:So that's what I saw, so that's what I thought we could go to. So, like, say, if, like, this was something somebody was interested in, I saw your membership, what is? Yeah, so I didn't mean to interrupt you. I'm so sorry, but I just got excited when you said that, cause I was like that's what I was, that's what I want to talk about too.
Speaker 2:So the membership is it's $147 for three months and you get access to everything All of our our medicine guides on psilocybin, on ketamine, our integration course and um our, our microdosing course. What I found is that no one wants to join a membership. People don't. They say they want community, but I really I think they just want to be able to DIY this, at least for now. There's still so much stigma we really we really minimize, like how people feel about other people knowing that they're making this choice and I, as I live in a bubble right Like everyone's high-fiving me, but the reality is is people are worried about their kids being taken away from them. This is, this is, you know, mushrooms are a schedule one controlled substance, and so I just feel like, although the information we have is going to help you have an optimal experience, people are maybe just not ready to talk about it publicly yet. That's what I'm sensing.
Speaker 1:That's so interesting. Yeah, that is so interesting. So what is the law on this? So, just a fun fact, I was a cop for 10 years. Three years ago I quit and then I moved to Texas and I started my life over as an entrepreneur. So but I don't know. I don't know because back in California legalized a lot of things you know. So I remember. So I just I remember a lot changing when a lot of what's called narcotics went from a felony to a misdemeanor and then we weren't even arresting for that anymore. So is that? Does that mean it's like cannabis, we can get it prescribed? I'm talking about like the mushrooms and stuff like that. Can we get it prescribed? No, it's. Is there anywhere in the world where this is completely legal? Please tell me.
Speaker 2:So, okay, I love all your questions. These are great, okay. Schedule one controlled substance at the federal level, that is psilocybin, that is MDMA, that is still cannabis. Right, that is ketamine is a schedule three, because it's used in operating rooms with children, in fact, every single day, right. So, um, but the things that actually grow from the ground and are totally natural are still a schedule one. Controlled substance, again at the federal level. At the state level, we have like, how many states over 30 states have legalized cannabis for either medical or adult use purposes? For mushrooms, oregon has legalized psilocybin. You have to consume it in a licensed service center and a standard dose trip, which I mentioned is three and a half grams, cost $3,000. Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1:So that's the retreats. Is that what that is in Oregon, those retreats where it's like they call it like a micro dosing retreats, where you can go and there's like medical staff there and you can just have this like spiritual retreat. I don't know, have you heard of these retreats?
Speaker 2:Sure, yeah, Um, in Oregon, and you know Oregon is interesting because it is licensed and people are traveling there because they want to do this legally. So, yes, there are a variety of different retreats you can go to. Or you just go and you have your session, your journey, and then you check out and go to a hotel or go back to your house. And not everyone that's operating in Oregon has chosen to operate as a licensed facilitator. So most people are still operating underground because it's a lot to ask someone to spend $3,000, right. And if you can charge a fraction of that and people are getting what they need, then I think a little. You know people are, are facilitators, are sort of like why am I going to do this? So the next state that is legalizing is Colorado. Colorado has done it a little differently. Not only have they created regulations for for legalized psilocybin use, but they've also decriminalized psilocybin, along with some other psychedelics.
Speaker 2:So it's just as you were saying. Right, it went from felony to misdemeanor. To like it is the lowest priority for law enforcement.
Speaker 1:Yeah, if I saw somebody outside smoking marijuana and they're on their patio, you're on your patio. But I remember when that law came out just for cannabis and everybody is like you need to write them a citation. I'm like there's no point in any of this anymore. California legalized it. Pretty much it's down to just a site and release. I'm not doing that. There's bigger fish to fry out there. The guy's smoking marijuana on his patio. What do you want me to do? I don't care. There's bigger things going on and I like that.
Speaker 1:You know there are states working to legalize or at least decriminalize it. Because, again, like I feel like when you give it over to people who are educated on the substance and know how to prescribe it and know how to help people with it, that's completely different. It's just you know it. Just it blows my mind that I know, even as a law enforcement officer, I know when you are laying down rules and regulations and everything people going to do, like what you said, they're going to okay. Well, I'm really interested in this. I'm going to go see Bob up in Oregon and he's going to hook it up, but we don't know who Bob is. So you've seen a lot in the cannabis industry where we've opened it up to license people. Do you see that happening over with mushrooms? Like eventually it's going to get there? I feel like between Oregon and Colorado they're saying like, hey, done properly, it's OK.
Speaker 2:I mean, so you're going to, you're going to hear me talking in a way that is, I've just I've been doing this for 10 years and so the what I see, and you have to remember, I sold my company into the Canadian market before Parliament even voted adult use cannabis in in like something. You know that it was going to turn at the federal level, and then I stayed after it was enacted, and so I've seen what happens when you take a controlled substance from being and in Canada's case it was medically legal at the federal level, here it's not at all but when you go from it being a controlled substance to being something that is legal at the federal level, so much changes right, it becomes regulated like a pharmaceutical. So, um, so what that means is pharmaceutical companies need to make sure that they're going to be making money off of this.
Speaker 2:Right, and so you're not going to. I think it's going to be really hard before we see psilocybin schedule change, because pharmaceutical companies are going to need to make sure they can make money off of that, which is sad, right, it's so sad that this is.
Speaker 1:This is the case. I try to be as holistic and natural as possible and especially when it comes to my child and things like that healthier, less side effects and less damaging to my body. But again, like you said, if the pharmaceutical industry isn't making money off of it, just like they try to do for cannabis, do you remember you? I'm sure you remember? I think what they tried to do is they were like trying keep it. Weren't they trying to keep it against the law for cannabis to become medical because they weren't going to make money off of it? Or is that something that I heard and just made up? But I just I remember there being an issue in California when Prop 47 like did their thing over there. Do you remember that?
Speaker 2:Recently with I don't, I don't, I don't know what you're talking about to cannabis.
Speaker 2:But no, I mean, that wouldn't surprise me. I think it's one of the reasons why cannabis hasn't been rescheduled. So a schedule one controlled substance is something that has not shown to be, um, to have medical value, right, and we have a pharmaceutical that's on the market that is a synthetic of cannabis. So there is medical value and there are more and more reports of this. But if it becomes a schedule three controlled substance, then all of a sudden cannabis companies can bank like a regular business. So much changes about how they run their business. It becomes much more convenient to have a business in cannabis and that becomes inconvenient for pharmaceutical companies. And they have a, they have a big lobby.
Speaker 2:So with psilocybin I think it's going to be a similar. You know this frustration and what happened in California recently with California, recently with psychedelics, is they were going to be decriminalized, particularly psilocybin. That's the one I know of for sure. Yes, but Gavin Newsom said no. And you know I work in an industry where everyone's a conspiracy theorist and everyone thinks that pharmaceutical companies are bad. I take pharmaceuticals every day. I'm super grateful for them. They changed my life. So I have no issue with medicines that help people. It's just more of keeping medicines that will help other people and more people away from them, because it's getting in the way of your like you said earlier profits, right? So supposedly that was voted down by Gavin Newsom because he's in bed with pharmaceutical lobbies. I don't know.
Speaker 1:Anyway, I mean somebody, somebody like me, or a mom or whatever, wanted to try this. What would we have to do? Where would I go?
Speaker 2:I don't want to go to a random guy in a back alley. What if?
Speaker 1:I feel like this is for me or one of my listeners. What do we do?
Speaker 2:Well, I started a psilocybin company and I it's distributed out of Santa Cruz, it's called of like minds and, yeah, I, I do not get paid on the sale of provisions, I just own the trademark. Because I can't, I cannot sit here and talk to you and say everything I want to say if I'm making money because I'm selling a schedule, one controlled substance, right. But the number one question I got when I started my podcast is where do I get mushrooms? Just like you asked, and I didn't have a place that I could send people who my family members, my friends, people who I didn't know, but we're listening to the show in confidence, right, tell them to download telegram and here's some random number Like it. Just, you know that wasn't how it was going to go down, so I had to. Yeah, so I created not only a brand but educational downloads that went with that brand, which is where sets that came out of that, right it's, we don't offer the medicine but we offer the education. So I would say, um, there are. You know you can go to cruzysilocom. That's where of, like, mine's products are and some other products. They're scheduled 35.co, which is another place you can get trusted product.
Speaker 2:But here's what I am asking you to please not do, and that is by chocolate bars off of Instagram, tiktok, telegram, either you're going to. What's going to happen is what happened to me, which is going to send someone a hundred bucks and then they're going to send you some silly note that says it's from the DEA, that if you don't come and claim your package, that they're going to come and get you. And you got to send them 700 bucks to make sure that doesn't happen. What so? You know there's scams, but actually the worst thing that could have happened happened this year, and two people died from what were supposedly psilocybin chocolate bars, but there wasn't any mushrooms. There was no mushroom in that bar. They use a synthetic called 4-ACO-DMT, which means you're going to hallucinate, but it's not from psilocybin. And when you're talking about these illicit labs, 4-aco is a powder. Fentanyl is a powder. There's a cross-contamination that happens, and this is going to continue to happen in more and more and more, and now that we know, the cartels are actually putting fentanyl on top of weed.
Speaker 1:Yep, yeah, we're having that issue. Where I was a police officer in San Diego, we were having that issue when we would always know when new product crossed the border, because we would be having overdoses left and right just on marijuana, overdoses left and right just on marijuana, and then we would collect it and send it into the lab, whether the person we were able to Narcan them fast enough or not. You know, everything got tested at the lab and it was laced with fentanyl and it was, yeah, just just over marijuana. I remember that. Yeah, we always all the officers on duty, we all carried Narcan and, like I said, we always knew when a new batch was coming, because we just it would be call after call after call of overdose. So we all carried a couple of Narcans on ourselves.
Speaker 1:So that was really sad, but that's what happens when you have, when it's so regulated like that and they won't change the schedule, which still blows my mind because there's a safe way to do it and if it helps people, then I say go for it. Better than having that glass of wine. It took me six months to calm down my alcohol usage.
Speaker 2:So how did you do it?
Speaker 1:How did you do it? Cold turkey, I just had to stop buying it. And, um, and that had side effects. I was really grouchy for a couple of weeks because I'm so used to having my glass of wine at four or five o'clock because it's addictive, you know. And so is this not addictive, or yeah, what is the side effect on that? So, like, is this something that, like, you can be like oh, you know, I feel better, I don't need it anymore? Or is this something that, like you, can be like oh, you know, I feel better, I don't need it anymore? Or is this something that you'd have to?
Speaker 2:take forever. No, in fact, unlike prescription medication, where they put you on it and there's no plan to get you off of it, you should. You should not take psilocybin forever and ever, amen. I'll give you an example of a woman I just interviewed. She started microdosing four years ago after her divorce and it really helped bring her back into life Right. And she stopped and then her dad passed away at the beginning of the year, so it's a different type of grief, but she remembered how much microdosing helped her during that time and she started microdosing again. So you can. You know, if you're stuck and you microdose for a bit and you feel unstuck, you can stop and you're not going to have any physical withdrawal at all.
Speaker 2:So, in fact, people are using. I started microdosing when I wanted. Like you, my poison of choice is not alcohol, it is cannabis. I want it.
Speaker 1:Like you, my poison of choice is not alcohol, it is cannabis.
Speaker 2:I love weed and it was really after my divorce. I gave myself a year to just do whatever I needed to do to get through that year, essentially without creating too many more problems for myself, right, and a year was. I was coming up on a year and I was still smoking weed day in, day out, and I knew I needed to stop because it wasn't good. It's not, I didn't need it, I just needed to maybe not feel so much, or yeah, cause it's numbing.
Speaker 1:I was also in the Marine Corps for a while and all of my friends that got out they all smoke cannabis, they all smoke weed All of them do, but it's because they need that numbing feeling and microdosing with mushrooms. Are you not numbing out? Is it so completely? You're just calm. Yeah, okay, yeah, that's a big difference.
Speaker 2:It is a big difference. You're calm, you had asked this question earlier and I didn't answer it for you, so what can people expect? It's like it's like hitting the pause button before you. Your daughter does some. I have two sons, by the way. They're in high school, so like I'm a mom as well, I totally get it.
Speaker 2:I mean, you know different reasons now, but, yes, so they do something and before you just lay into them, it's like hitting a pause button and you can see yourself and you can see how you would normally react to a situation and you make a different choice and it's all happens like in an instant. But you do choose differently and you're able to be more curious about people's behavior or their reaction to your behavior. You know so much. You just take on this like this curiosity hat about things, including curiosity about yourself, and rather than judgment, right, being curious about something is very, very different than being critical of it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I'm curious about everything. That's why I just want especially this topic Like I got so excited when we were DMing each other on Instagram because it's like this is a topic I want to talk about and especially because you're this woman owned business and now podcast hosts like everything, it's exciting to learn about it and from somebody who knows about it. So, what is next for you? You have your podcast, which I again I'm going to link it in the show notes. But, like, what else is next for?
Speaker 2:you and your business. So because I you know I'm my job as an entrepreneur is to know how things are in terms of timing. We're pretty early. I thought we were going to really like dovetail into some big change.
Speaker 2:Unfortunately, we may not be quite there, but if I were being honest with you about what I want to be when I grow up, I want to create events for people to experience these medicines in a way that is safe and fun, and it's almost like the therapy part of things. It just sort of surprises you, it kind of sneaks up on you, right. And so I'm starting here in Seattle hosting private events for people, so I can start to figure this out and figure out how we might scale it, and it's just going to be something that I'm doing on my own while, you know, the rest of the businesses is doing its thing too. But I'm, you know, I will continue to launch or, um, to publish episodes of the web of sorry, of the podcast, and we'll get more educational downloads available on the website. But yeah, that's what I'm up to at the moment.
Speaker 2:I'm very, you know, I'm not I'm not passionate about cannabis, I'm not passionate about psychedelics, I'm super passionate about women's health, and I think that it is shameful that there is this option and women just don't feel like they have permission to do it. They don't, you know. Obviously it's not legal, so that's one of the things, but it just makes me sad that they feel like they'll be judged for eating. That is nature.
Speaker 1:Right, but that's why we have you. April is because there are women in all over the world.
Speaker 1:I was going to say in this country, but all over the world that are standing up for it and be like hey, like it's okay everybody, like, just let me help you, let's do it safely, it's gonna be fine. You can put your rosé down. I have something a hell of a lot better than that, and I, oh my gosh. So like if, when you decide to do this, when it starts to happen and you have these events, we're going to have to just stay tuned to your podcast to learn more about it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I have a monthly salon here in Seattle that, unfortunately, we won't have them for the rest of the year, because it's the first Tuesday of the month and the first Tuesday in November is election day, and then the first Tuesday in December, election day, and then the first Tuesday in December I'm speaking at a conference in Las Vegas and when we start back up in 2025, it'll be at a much larger venue. So, if you're in Seattle or you're near Seattle, you can come to our salons, which are amazing, and you get to meet people right and ask questions and figure out you find your own community. But, yeah, listening to the podcast is definitely and my newsletter, the newsletter. Go to the website, get set, get set setcom and you can sign up for our newsletter and that's where, like, yeah, you'll find out about everything we're working on.
Speaker 1:Perfect. And also I'm going to put your Instagram in the show notes. I want everybody just like if this even makes you curious, I want you guys listening just to go check out her Instagram and just ask her questions, like that's the one thing, you're super sweet Like just DM her, slide into her DMs, ask her questions, because this stuff is fascinating and I feel like it's going to change the laws. Everything is going to change in the next few years. I don't know about you, but I just feel like there's a lot of change happening and it needs to happen. It really does, I think, but it's it's taking advocates like you to make this change. So, yeah, that's incredible.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much, april, for being on the show. I appreciate you and I'm definitely going to go check out your podcast. I'm going to be a new listener because, again, like I, I have a thousand questions. I feel like we can talk all day, but somebody has to pick up my daughter from school, so what I want to do is I want to have you back on later. I want to learn more about this. I'm going to go check out your your episodes because I want to come more informed on our next talk so I can sound a little bit more intelligent, like I know what I'm talking about, because I feel like we can talk for days.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, you're asking all the right questions, right? No one knows where to start. I mean, it's just, it's all new and we've we not only have to learn it, but we have to retrain, reprogram ourselves to know that this is something that's an option, right? So we have a YouTube channel that's also Get Set, set and playlists that are by topic. So psilocybin, psychedelics in general, ketamine, dmt so, if anything that you might be interested in, there's an episode for it, and I think that our YouTube channel is really the best place to like really dive in.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm gonna add that too. That's going in the show notes too. Everything that I find on you is going in the show notes. I want other women to have access to you. That was the whole point of this podcast is to bring women from all over the world and recently we just blew up in India, so I'm so grateful for that and I just want to bring women from all over the world into this one spot, this one podcast, so I can just connect everybody, and that was the whole point. I want people to DM you and ask you questions because again, like this is a hot topic and I like that we talked about ask you questions. Because again, like this is a hot topic and I like that we talked about don't buy it on some weird ass site. Don't stop buying your mushroom coffee from Amazon. I'm not doing that anymore. I literally have.
Speaker 2:Oh my God. But if you are? But if you are, it's really good for you because it's it's anti-inflammatory. So keep buying functional mushroom coffee. I think that's good, Good idea.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I thought it was mushroom, like actual like to calm me down kind of mushrooms, but no, but again, this is why I have you in my life now April. So thank you so much for coming on the podcast. I appreciate you, you're amazing and I can't wait to have you back on with more questions.
Speaker 2:Awesome, I'll be here to answer them, if I can.
