How Associations Can Build Trust and Career Growth

On this episode of Learning by Association, we explore how rethinking learning as a core strategy can help member organizations stay relevant in an increasingly competitive and fast-changing landscape. Host Bill Sheehan speaks with Rozalyn Werner-Arcé, executive director of the Ontario Public Buyers Association (OPBA), about how associations can deliver meaningful value through education, community and professional development. 

Rozalyn shares how OPBA is evolving its approach to learning through its Public Procurement Learning Lab, adopting blended learning models and continuously updating content to meet the needs of modern learners. She also discusses the importance of community in driving engagement, the role of trusted information in today’s environment and how associations can bridge knowledge gaps as experienced professionals retire. 

Other key topics Bill and Rozalyn covered in this episode include: 

• the shift from learning as a program to learning as a strategic driver of association value 
• how blended learning models can improve engagement and knowledge retention 
• the importance of community and networking in attracting and retaining members 
• strategies for keeping educational content relevant and up to date 
• how associations can address generational shifts and evolving learner expectations 
• the growing role of AI and emerging skills in shaping the future of professional development 

This conversation underscores how associations are evolving beyond traditional models to play a more strategic role in their industries. By prioritizing learning and delivering trusted expertise, associations can continue to support their members in navigating change and advancing their careers. 

To follow us on social media, find us on LinkedIn or Facebook @D2L. You can also check out our YouTube channel @Desire2LearnInc for the video version of this podcast and so much more. Please take a moment to rate, review and share the podcast, and reach out with comments and ideas for future episodes.

For more content like this, visit D2L.com/Learning-by-Association.

Don't miss our other show, Teach & Learn, a podcast for curious educators.

To learn more about how D2L is transforming the way the world learns, visit our website at D2L.com.  

Transcript

Bill Sheehan:  

Welcome to Learning by Association, a podcast brought to you by D2L, where we delve into the ever evolving world of associations and the challenges they face in navigating the currents of change. I'm Bill Sheehan and I'm thrilled to be your host. Join me and our guests as we explore the role learning plays in driving associations forward and how it can impact every part of your organization, from recruiting to engagement and renewals, to staff development, business strategy, and more. So let's dive in. 

Hello, everyone. Bill Sheehan, global head of Association Strategy here at D2L. And I'm very excited. In fact, this has been a little over a year in the making. And Roz and I had a conversation at the summer leadership of the Canadian Society of Association Executives. And amongst a range of things, we really talked about the necessity and the critical need for associations, particularly in today's competitive environment for those who want to advance their career. And for those industries that need some protection and promotion and ways to advance their industry, there's nothing better than association. So we had a wonderful conversation about just the importance and how you can continue to stay relevant and really provide meaningful impacts to your industry. And Roz is passionate about it. And so it's taken a long time, but I couldn't be more excited to have Rozalyn Werner-Arcé from OPPA. And I would like to allow Roz to introduce herself, her role, and a little bit about her association. So Roz, welcome. 

Rozalyn Werner-Arcé: 

Great. Oh, thank you so much, Bill. And I'm really excited to be here. Thank you so much for inviting me onto your podcast. This is exciting. So yes, I am with the Ontario Public Buyers Association. We are the association for public procurement professionals. So people who work in the area of procurement in any public sector. So whether it's municipal, provincial, Crown corporation, school board, post-secondary public safety, nonprofits, we have a large and diverse membership. As an association, we provide education, networking, and advocacy for our members. So lots to do, small team to do it, as for most associations. But it's an exciting opportunity and it's a great community to work with. 

I've been in the association sector now for probably about 20, 25 years. I've worked for a variety of different associations. And I'll be honest, when my peers heard I was going to work in procurement with public procurement folks, they said, "Oh my goodness, procurement?" Because procurement has a terrible reputation, right? They are seen as the barriers. But I got to say, these are folks who are very friendly, really want to make things happen. They recognize their role as stewards of public tax dollars, and they take that seriously. But boy, oh boy, they really do want to... They value their role and the tax dollars they are in charge of. 

Bill Sheehan: 

See, and that's why I think that your association is so important because of that, because who would be policing that, in other words? The spending could get out of control and the like. So I know it's the same around any type of procurement, even down here in the States. Procurement has that little bit of aura to it, but it is so critically important. And I think it's not as easy as it sounds being in procurement. There's a lot of things that anyone involved in procurement has to be aware of when making purchases and the like, and kind of policing the tax dollars of the individuals in society. 

One of the things that when we were at the CSAE Summer Summit, you gave a wonderful presentation and a lot of, I think several of your members were in accordance and just couldn't sing enough praises of you and your organization and what you're doing. So I applaud you for that because it is an industry that's not easily understood, but very critical to the success of really operating within societies and communities across Canada and across North America in general. So bravo to that. 

And one of the things you and I started talking about, particularly with me being at D2L was just everything around professional development, around learning, certifications, organizations getting accredited and associations kind of serving as that barometer. And what I'm seeing now in the association space, particularly on research projects, multiple research projects, is that across the association sector, we're hearing that learning is more of the strategy. It's not a program, it's more about the strategy or value that the association have, and everything else supports it. And we're starting to see a bit of that shift. 

So when you and I were talking, in today's environment where professionals are just overwhelmed with information, just the platforms and competing demands for their time, and we're kind of in that attention economy, all that being considered, where learning is the value and everything else supports it, how does OPBA think about staying relevant in what many people really call the attention economy? How are you remaining relevant in today's competitive environment? 

Rozalyn Werner-Arcé: 

So that's a great question, and one we think about a lot because there's a lot of competition in the association world. OPBA is not the only association for public procurement professionals. So we really need to think about how we differentiate ourselves from others. And it's interesting, I just had this conversation with someone last week about the value of OPBA. And I think that there are two things that we do that make us stand out. One, it's about creating a community where people want to feel like they belong, and that's going to look different for every person. There are some folks who become so dedicated, they want to become board directors. They want to just dive right in and get involved. There are others who just want the membership. They may or may not read the emails, and then there's this big mass in between. 

So we need to figure out what's important to those folks in between and serve them. So the fact that we serve only public procurement sector, I think makes a big difference. We're focused on that. We understand that. And we have subject matter experts who bring their expertise to the association to help us figure that out. And I think the other piece is around the education as well, serving the public sector education needs. So there are a number of designations or certifications that folks can earn. We don't offer a certification, but we can provide education and professional development that contributes towards that certification for folks as well. 

Bill Sheehan: 

Yeah, and I think that's actually becoming very popular within the association and nonprofit space is that upskilling in today's environment, maybe micro-credentialing or some digital badges and the like, just to help advance your career a little bit more without necessarily spending the time to go through certifications, but just getting little micro-credentials along the way. So like you, a lot of the conversations I'm having, and I've been in, like I said, the association space for a little over 30 years, and so I've seen the ebbs and flows of how the industry changes and adapts to remain critically important to the industry. 

But as most associations are experiencing this, and this is a global concern, is that there's a bit of attrition now where the older members are starting to retire and leaving the organization. And the younger generation coming in has been exposed to a lot of other different types of informational tools that an association provides that they just feel that sometimes the associations aren't necessary. So I think in today's world, some people are just starting to question the younger generation, particularly, I think, are associations as relevant as they once were? And I believe they are, particularly in today's days. But from your perspective, for example, what's that unique value an association like OPBA can provide that individuals simply can't get elsewhere? And I think a lot of it has to do with the trust and the information and the information that you're putting out that's trusted and vetted and complete. What's that value, that unique value that you think OPBA provides in today's environment? 

Rozalyn Werner-Arcé: 

So that's actually something we give a lot of thought to. So I've been with OPBA four years now. And when I started, that information gap was something people talked about, our partners, our membership. There's this cohort that are starting to retire and will be retiring over the next few years, and that information gap is a big issue. So that's something we were thinking about. So how do we help bridge that gap? And I have been hearing this for, I'm going to say, at least 10 years, probably more about, "Oh, associations are going to die. If all the information's available for free on the internet, why do I need to join an association?" 

Bill Sheehan: 

Right, right. 

Rozalyn Werner-Arcé:  

So yeah, that's been in the space for 10 years or more, I'm going to say, 10, 15 years. And I just don't think that that is true. There are some folks who just aren't interested in being part of a community. But I think more and more today, people want to be part of a community. They want to belong to a space that's going to serve their needs, that are going to help them be better in their roles, that are going to help them advance in their career, and that's going to help them build their professional networks. So that's where we focus. 

So a little bit of an aside, but I thought this was quite so interesting. So I had a posting for a co-op student earlier this year, and honestly, I could not fill it. I was offering good money. It's a meaningful job, and I interviewed about 15 students, and I offered it to about eight of them, and none of them took the job. Why? Because they all said they wanted that in office experience to build their professional network. 

Bill Sheehan:

Interesting. 

Rozalyn Werner-Arcé: 

Isn't that interesting? I thought that was... So we are a virtual association, but it says to me, and in all of our professional development and most of our education, not everything, but most is offered online, but it said to me, it's really important that we create opportunities for people to build their professional network. 

Bill Sheehan: 

Yeah, so I think actually that's refreshing to hear. It's refreshing to hear. Because back in the day, before the internet, which I was around in the association space before the internet, before the web, the associations were the original social network. 

Rozalyn Werner-Arcé: 

Right. 

Bill Sheehan: 

Right? You went to events and you were amongst like-minded individuals who were in the same industry as you were. Maybe some of them had kind of a similar job that you did. And you want to talk about learning, just having those conversations to me. I mean, you're talking about professional development, there's probably nothing better than that to be able to talk to somebody in that community that's kind of experiencing the same challenges and opportunities you are. And that's where I really found the value of an organization. 

Now there was that disruptor of this thing called the worldwide web and the internet and everything can be this community, but there was still, you didn't necessarily see attendance at events go down, right? They still wanted to have that social interaction from that industry. And I think that's starting to come back in a certain way because I do feel that the world is a little bit disconnected in that they're not having these ability to literally network in a organization or in a space or an event where you do have folks that have very similar passions that you do and want to advance the industry. 

And where I think an association plays such a critical role in that is providing that content, if you will, that is vetted by subject matter experts. And before it's disseminated, before we allow our members to consume it, it's vetted by these subject matter experts so it can be trusted, I guess. Whereas when you're using some other type of organization, are you sure that that's the information or the certifications that the industry needs at this point in time? So there's that level of competition. So when you talk about education as kind of being that core value proposition, research across the association consistently shows that one of the top reasons people join associations now, particularly in today's world, is access to learning and professional development that they can trust. 

Interestingly enough, surveys also show that beyond paying membership dues, what will members pay for or even some non-members pay for, is education. So beyond paying member dues, they're more willing, almost 80% are more willing to pay for education. So that really is a core value proposition of association. I think that's why we're kind of uniquely positioned here. But you had touched on that, but how central is education to OPBA's value proposition? I mean, is that something that you're pushing out there as the relevancy of our organization? 

Rozalyn Werner-Arcé: 

100%. I think associations have to do that. Unless you're perhaps a strong influential advocacy voice for your industry, which may be a reason some people join some associations, I think the majority of associations, their reason for being is education. So we have one course, I consider it the crown jewel of OPBA. It's our Principles of Effective Public Procurement. We've been offering it for nearly 20 years now, and it's highly regarded within the industry. But again, we knew we needed to grow that, our offerings, and we've worked really hard over the past few years to do so. So that principles course is for those who are new to the sector or have transitioned from private procurement to public procurement. 

But there's all in the intermediate level and executive levels, senior levels, there's no reason for those folks to come to conference anymore. They know all about procurement. They don't need to know anything about that. So we need to turn our head to what did those senior level procurement leaders need and how can OPBA adapt its programs and grow and build and to ensure value to the members? 

Bill Sheehan: 

Yeah. Let me ask you, so that crown jewel of education, that probably evolves over time, doesn't it? And I think so it continually provides value. And I think that's what associations need... And again, so half of my career I spent as an association executive. And so this is not a slam against the associations, they have a million things to do on a daily basis. But what the importance of really maintaining and updating and making sure that the education you have now is valuable, and not only that, but is it up to date? Because I've seen some other associations who they know their content is dated and that's good for people coming into the industry. But for those who have been in the industry five or 10 years, they need more types of education, not that. And therefore, their value proposition starts to wane if that content is not updated. 

Do you, as the executive director, and I guess working with the board and maybe even some committees, is it a driving force to really ensure that our education is constantly reviewed and updated in a timely fashion and then promoting that out to the industry that this is the most up-to-date educational content in our industry? 

Rozalyn Werner-Arcé: 

So our principles course, as I mentioned, it's been around for 20 years and COVID forced us to change. It used to be offered in person, there is an exam, it was proctored in the person's office by their supervisor, very traditional in its offerings. COVID came, we moved to Zoom, and then a couple of years ago, we realized folks were sitting in six hours of Zoom for that course, split over two days and three hours, but it's hard. I took a couple of the courses myself when I started. Now, I'm not in the industry, but anyway. 

But we also knew through COVID, we've got younger learners, learners coming with different experiences, more sophisticated learning needs. So we definitely needed to update the way we were delivering that course, and we also had to update the material because it hadn't been updated for 10 years. So procurement rules change and continually, as they do in many industries, and so we had to undertake quite a revision of all of our textbook, our course materials, and we came to the realization that we cannot let it go for 10 years. So we're putting in place a process, so yes, we can continually update our materials. And now that we're on a learning management system, it also makes it easier for us to update those materials as well. So before our textbook was printed hard copy, and we still have some copies because people like me, I love that tactile experience- 

Bill Sheehan: 

I'm with you. I'm the same. Love it. 

Rozalyn Werner-Arcé: 

But some people want the PDF. They want to read that. So we actually transitioned into using Brightspace a couple of years ago, and it's been really great. So even when we launched our new platform, it's called the Public Procurement Learning Lab, so we were able to customize that for our audience. We launched that in September, and in February, we got a note from one of our instructors saying, "Hey, I noticed this material is out of date, we should be updating it." So we were able to go into the course materials, update it right away, and we're able to update the PDF of the chapter text that aligns with that right away. How awesome is that? 

Bill Sheehan: 

I was going to say, that's a huge accomplishment because I do believe, when you talk to some associations, particularly those who have smaller staffs, it's overwhelming. It can be overwhelming to say, "We have to update this." And then what you do is you tend to kick it down the road a little bit, say, "We'll do it next month," and then before you know it, the year's over. 

So for our listeners, if you will, and those who are involved in the education program for associations who are responsible for the content and know that it needs updated, where do they begin? To me, it sounds like it's from the top down. In other words, either you have a committee or you're working with your board that says, "This is going to be a resolution in this calendar year that we're going to update it and we need to establish some subject matter experts who can volunteer their time." How long was that process? I mean, that's a difficult process for people. And I think some of them feel that it's maybe just easier to push it down the road a little bit. Maybe someone else will come in and update it. So when you actually said, "We're going to update it," what was that process like for you internally? 

Rozalyn Werner-Arcé: 

Well, I have to confess, we have the most amazing volunteer subject matter expert who doesn't let dust settle at her feet. If something needs to be done, she does it. So between Michelle and our staff who's responsible for the Learning Lab, they just get things done. But I mean, I don't have the magic formula. I do think we need to build in a process for this because Michelle isn't going to be here forever. She's tremendously committed, but at some point she's going to retire and she might want to travel or do something fun other than volunteer here for OPBA. So definitely, I think we do need to build in a process. And that's something we committed to doing because a 10-year update is really hard. It's really hard. And it took a lot, a lot of people to update that. So yes, we need to build in, I would say, at least an annual process where even if people are sending us materials, then we need to, I don't know, dedicate a period of time where we just go through and update on materials. Yeah. 

Bill Sheehan: 

Yeah, I was going to say, so there's both an internal and external process. The internal, the staff who's kind of responsible for updating it. But then there's the ask, if you will, on external, "Hey, are there subject matter experts out there? We need to have a meeting, a little committee meeting or task force that says, 'Listen, we need to update our content. Would you be willing to help and do that?'" Was that kind of the process where... I mean, because not everyone has that wonderful SME, right? 

Rozalyn Werner-Arcé: 

Yeah. 

Bill Sheehan: 

Yeah. 

Rozalyn Werner-Arcé: 

No, it was a group of people. It took all of our instructors. We put a call out to our membership to say, "Hey, we need a group of people who can help us update these materials." So people put up their hand or we reached out to folks who we knew had expertise in a particular area. So even a chapter update for the text, it wasn't just one person. We had one person update it, then we had to have someone go in and validate that material. Then there's a third person who needs to edit everything and validate all the material updates as well. So yeah, it's not one person, it takes a committee to make it happen. 

Bill Sheehan: 

It takes a village. It really takes a village. 

Rozalyn Werner-Arcé: 

That's what I was looking for. 

Bill Sheehan: 

Yeah, because I was going to say too, and there was a question I wanted to ask you that I think you just answered, but when you're designing those educational programs, how do you ensure that they truly advance a member's career rather than just deliver content? Because I think you've answered that where you have those subject matter experts along the way, those who are familiar with the industry and know this content will be relevant and it can really help advance a member's career in that. 

Because I do think one of the things that I think is missing in today's association market, particularly as it relates to professional development or educational programs, is the fact that when I was in the association space, our measure of success was member satisfaction of the LMS and then completion rates, "So we're seeing a lot of engagement, members seem to be happy, so we must be successful." But the one thing I think is missing, and I think some are starting to do this, is what is the impact that you're getting from our organization, be it in professional development or upskilling, or in certification and some other associations? How is that impacting your personal career? Is it helping you advance through your company? Is it helping you advance in getting promotions? Is it even maybe helping you for new jobs out there where you can have a higher salary? Are you familiar within the space that you're in, are there organizations actually tracking that to say, "Hey, listen, the education that we provide via professional development or certification is actually impacting our members' lives in a very positive fashion"? 

Rozalyn Werner-Arcé: 

That's a really great question. You're getting my wheels going. So I'm going to say, I don't know. I mean, anecdotally, I can say, yes, we're contributing to people's advancement because we're helping them earn their certification. We know certifications, even our principles certificate, we see that in job postings. They're looking for staff who have either started or have taken the principles certificate program. They're hiring people who have their CPPB certification, and we can contribute towards the maintenance of that, but how are we doing that? That's a really good question, actually. So we're doing a member survey actually right now we're planning for, and I'm wondering if there's a way we could ask that in the survey. 

Bill Sheehan: 

Yeah, and I would love to see that response because I think some of the things we talk about at D2L is really that passion. We're just all passionate about learning, obviously, but what we're trying to say is associations invest good money in their systems, their learning management or their association management database or their community platforms, and they have a fiduciary responsibility to their members to provide the best support systems you can have. But I think what we forget to ask is, are they working? Are they helping you individually and personally? Because that's where I think impact then equates directly to relevance. And then you see renewal rates go up, you can see more membership acquisition coming in and new members coming in. 

But I think what in today's society, and I don't know if OPBA is doing a continuous type of learning throughout the year. In other words, so remember how some of it used to be very synchronous. You went here this time of year, you took the test and that was it, "We'll see you next year." Then with the advent of technology, now you could have kind of asynchronous where you could have learning at their time when your members need it, particularly in fields such as the healthcare, the finance, engineering, where their days are much different than a lot of other fields. So they're taking little tests, they're taking quizzes and they're doing upskilling on their cell phones now. Do you make sure that the organization is providing that level of continuous learning throughout the year, just so you can meet members where they are? 

Rozalyn Werner-Arcé: 

Yes, we do. I'm going to say it's a bit blended. So when we first started thinking about shifting all our education to the LMS, in my mind, it was all going to be asynchronous, people can take whatever they want, when they want, et cetera. As we started diving into it a little bit deeper, what I came to realize is that our learners really, really value the in class component, that time with the instructor. So what we have adopted is a blended learning model. So a course is available for a month, so as opposed to registering for Monday and Tuesday, 9:00 to 12:00, where you would sit in on the Zoom, and if you couldn't make those, you were out of luck, now people have access to a course for a whole month. And they could do all the self-study pieces in a few hours if they want, or they can do it at their convenience once the kids go to bed, or if they have a break at the office, whatever. 

When they register, we let them know, "On this particular date, there is going to be an in class component. So it's virtual in class with an instructor. You have to attend that." So people have plenty of time to organize their schedule. And we've even heard from the instructors that they are inspired and motivated by those in class experiences because learners are now coming, they're more prepared for the discussions. Again, on Zoom, people may, most of the time, did not turn on their cameras. We would send them coursework to do before the course. Did it get done? 

So I don't want to judge, but the discussions now, because we're on the LMS, because we have built in quizzes throughout, and people can't continue until they pass the quiz. So we've moved from reading and memorizing material to people understanding it. So when they have that experience with the instructor, they have internalized the material. They understand it and they want to do a deeper dive. So that has made such a huge difference. And this instructor actually was at the point where they were saying, "You know what? I'm just not getting much out of teaching anymore. I'm going to step down." They had this experience with the learning management system and said, "I'm reengaged. I love it." 

Bill Sheehan: 

That's great to hear. I love hearing that. And I do want to learn, speaking of deeper dives, tell us a little bit more about your Learning Lab because to me, that to me sounds like a wonderful content library that to me is not only valuable, but just really, I think, helps increase not only engagement, but the duration of engagement, that they're spending longer time within the site. Tell us a little bit about how that came about and what its purpose is now. 

Rozalyn Werner-Arcé: 

Yeah. So it's called the Public Procurement Learning Lab, and it serves a few different purposes. So it's now a department of the OPBA. It's where all learning and professional development takes place under that brand, that label, the Public Procurement Learning Lab. And we are transitioning all of our, I call them our education or training courses onto the learning management system. So it gives us more flexibility and we are moving again towards this more understanding of material as opposed to memorizing it. 

But it also gives us the opportunity to broaden our reach. So the board of directors had... We are the Ontario Public Buyers Association, the province of Ontario, but we also identified that across Canada, for public sector education, there was an opportunity to fill a gap in providing affordable training specifically for public sector. So we can't take the OPBA brand across the country, but we can take the Public Procurement Learning Lab brand across the country. 

Bill Sheehan: 

Interesting. 

Rozalyn Werner-Arcé: 

So we actually, we did an in person workshop in another province, Alberta last spring. We've started to promote the Public Procurement Learning Lab across the country, and we're starting to get learners from different parts of the province taking the courses now. 

Bill Sheehan:  

So talking about a nice... I was going to get into non-dues revenue. I mean, that's a nice non-dues revenue stream, and I'm assuming it's priced accordingly, right, member, non-member, or is it the same price across? 

Rozalyn Werner-Arcé: 

Yeah. So there are member and non-member pricings, which is great. So yes, that is helpful. People outside of the province of Ontario can join the OPBA if they want to take a benefit. And we've structured the pricing so that for our principles specifically, if they're going to complete the certificate, it's actually better for them to join the OPBA, take all the courses, write the exam, and there's a cost savings of about two courses there by doing that. So yeah, I mean, we recognize that in public sector, training dollars are tight and, frankly, being pulled back even more. So we need to meet that need of people in that sector. 

Bill Sheehan: 

See, and that, again, goes to show you the purpose of an association. It's kind of going and fulfilling an unmet need or want within the industry. So that's why I really believe that associations are uniquely positioned now, particularly more than ever, to really help advance an individual's career in multiple fashions, not just certification, but professional development and how to network and the like as well. So I love that idea of that Learning Lab where you're actually... It's a wonderful non-dues revenue opportunity as well, but it's provided great value to the industry as well. 

One of the things I was going to ask too, and this is always a tough question, so I kind of apologize in advance because things are moving so rapidly, but people you say, "Hey, let's have a five-year, seven-year, 10-year strategic plan." Well, I think that's almost impossible in today's age because things are changing so rapidly in the marketplace. Interestingly, there are statistics that's saying between it was 2000 and 2015, about 45% of the skillsets that they're using now did not exist back in 2000. And now they're saying about 65% of the skills needed in 2030 aren't here yet. I mean, the skillset's going to change that drastically, particularly with AI. 

So when you look at the future of professional development within your industry, how do you see professional development evolving, particularly for procurement professionals and the role of your association that's playing in that journey, being on top of that educational wave and seeing the future on what you're going to need, how do you stay ahead of the curve? 

Rozalyn Werner-Arcé: 

So that's where having a committed board of directors comes into play. They are typically, not always, but typically senior level procurement professionals who are also thinking about that in their own organization. And they come with that lens. And they've been through the association throughout their career and they see the value of it and they know that there's value for their membership. So they're helping us think about, so what does the future look like? We ask our members when they take a course, "What else do you want to know? What else will be helpful for you?" And it's sitting down with people at conference and having the conversations with folks as well. 

I will sit down at tables and talk to our members and say, "How's the conference going? Is it meeting your needs? What else can we be doing?" And someone said to me last year, "Yeah, we want more on AI." I said, "Okay, that's great. So about what? You have names of speakers? I can get the speakers. I just need to know who to ask." And he said, "I don't care. It doesn't matter. I just need to know more about AI." Because the procurement industry, like my industry, like lots of others, we are all going to be impacted by AI. I don't think it's going to replace us, but it means we need to demonstrate greater value as the human side of an association, what value do the humans bring to it? 

Bill Sheehan: 

Yeah. And I think too, what's important in today's environment, because being an ex association executive, the employees are fully burdened. If you've never worked inside an association, it's very difficult for folks to understand. It's like no day is ever the same. Things come up. I used to say you have a million bosses, you have your boss in the office, but then you have your members and committees and task forces and a lot of things that association staff are struggling with. And I think one of the good things that's coming out of all this is technology's getting a lot more intuitive to help them do their jobs. And right now there's a bit of fear with AI that it's going to replace your job as opposed to looking at it as something that's really going to accelerate and be a catalyst and really be able to make you work more efficiently so that you can kind of reallocate some of your time to other critical needs that your membership needs. 

But one of the things that I think that is so critically important is really the involvement of the board in the organization and to get the buy-in. And for those who aren't familiar with how boards work within associations, the executive directors, we all know how they work, but there's also churn, right? They serve time. There's like two or three, they serve on it for a few years and move on. And then you're bringing in new intellectual capital that sometimes shifts the momentum of the organization. They're bringing different types of thinking to bear. 

So how important and how closely do you work with your board of directors to ensure, particularly as it relates to one of the bigger assets that members are looking for, which is professional development and education, is that a critical element and an agenda item consistently that your board is reviewing of how successful are we in this particular sector of our value statement on education? I mean, is that top of mind for board? Or are they thinking, "That's just one of the things, what about the show? What about some of the advocacy? What about marketing?" Those type of things? 

Rozalyn Werner-Arcé: 

Oh, I would say education is top of mind for folks regularly. I mean, and I want to say we would not have been able to make this shift without the board being willing to take a risk. Procurement professionals are not big risk takers, and so it took a leap of faith. I had to present a good case of why we needed to shift our learning programs, but they're folks who kind of like status quo, "This is the way we do it." But they also recognize, I guess, times are changing. And so having your board on board and championing the change is critical to it. So yes, we're thinking about education all the time. They know that education it's really like next to membership, conference and professional development and education is a key revenue line. So they see it as really important too. So yes, for revenue, but also for about advancing and keeping a healthy profession. 

Bill Sheehan: 

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I still say this, I always say that associations across the globe kind of exist for three reasons. It's to protect, promote, and advance that industry in a number of different ways. And I think as long as the board doesn't forget that, because I can't tell you, and we talked to hundreds of associations a week, and some of the things we're working on with them, and they're starting to ask this question more and more, and we're helping them come to this revelation, if you will, is what happens if we don't move? What happens if we stay status quo? What's going to change? What's the cost of not changing? Because that risk, yes, associations are very risk adverse and understandably so, because it can be a fragile environment financially for associations. And so you want to make sure that if you're investing in something, actual hard dollars, member dollars into something, you better be able to justify the return in hard dollars or at least in cost savings in that. 

So I think with what we're trying to find out, and I think boards are starting to come around too, is that in today's age with all the competition out there, with other organizations and ways to find information and ways to find networking, how are we staying ahead of this trend? How are we staying ahead of this challenge within our industry? And if we stay the status quo, we can't expect different results. And I think association boards and the executive directors are starting to see a little bit more of leeway in that risk taking as long as you can support the investment with facts, "These are some of the numbers." 

When you're talking with your board about changing, what are some of the questions that they're asking you when you want to say you want to make a change, like when you were looking at that Learning Lab, what were some of their questions? Were they saying, "Hey, Roz, why are we doing this? What's the demand? What's the compelling event here that's causing us to do this?" What are some of those questions that the board's asking you on why you're making these changes? 

Rozalyn Werner-Arcé: 

I'm going to say, I think the biggest question that they're asking is, "How does this strengthen the association, what's in it for members? Why do the members want us to do that?" And they'll let me know, when I propose something and they'll for sure let me know when they think, "That's not going to serve the members." And that's good, right? May not be what I want to hear, but that's good that they're telling me that. 

Bill Sheehan: 

Yes, correct. Yeah. 

Rozalyn Werner-Arcé: 

And so yeah, for them, it's really all about the members today and tomorrow. So as long as we're serving the members and we're leading the members, because that's the other thing too, people come with different perspectives. So the members think about, "What do I need to know today?" The board needs to be thinking about, "What do our members need to know about tomorrow?" So it's the leadership piece as well. 

Bill Sheehan: 

Yeah, I was going to ask you that too. I mean, what would that be? What would that, I don't know, that one skill a procurement professional will need in the next three, five, 10 years. And I think that's what the board's asking too. I mean, does that come up? I mean, are you saying, "Hey..." I'm sure it's probably AI related, but I mean, are you discussing some of those, "These are the skills that we're seeing that are going to be in demand for our members"? 

Rozalyn Werner-Arcé: 

Yes, we're thinking about that, but we're also thinking about what's the knowledge gap. Thinking back to what we talked about at the very beginning, those baby boomers retiring. And I've had some of our sponsors, that's why they've come on board, some of our partners, because they've said, "We see this knowledge gap. We're trying to do business with folks and they don't have that knowledge. And we're really worried about three, five years from now when the decision makers are gone, how are things going to happen?" 

So I don't know that it's just one thing. I think it's a combination of things. It's about understanding procurement, it's also about with trade treaties, now it's a global perspective that people need to have. Plus global, understanding the trade treaties, but now we're also thinking about local. How do we support our local communities too at the same time? So it's really figuring out that balance and AI is in there all the time because lots of folks are afraid AI is going to replace them. 

Bill Sheehan: 

Yeah. And I think, I'm hoping, let me put it this way, I'm hoping, not thinking, the more they learn about AI, there are some mundane tasks that can be replaced, but I don't know if the individual can. Because what's going to happen is I think the skillset, the knowledge base that individual has acquired over the time being within the organization can be reallocated to the benefit of the industry. So I think you got to be careful that you can't replace a human. The AI is not a subject matter expert because it's still generated from human involvement. It begins there. Although some will say, "Well, Bill, wait a minute, they're starting to think on their own." Yeah, that's a little ways off on that. 

But one question I wanted to ask too, and it would be like if you and I are walking through a university campus and we're going into the lunchroom and somebody's in procurement, you're pitching that, what would you say would be the one, if there is one, reason why you should get involved with OPBA, what would that be? 

Rozalyn Werner-Arcé: 

Because you're going to be in a community of like-minded colleagues who are going to support you, who are going to help you grow, and yeah, who can help you be better at what you do. 

Bill Sheehan: 

Yeah. And I almost want to ask them, where else would you find that? In other words, you're not going to find it at the local bar. You're not necessarily going to find it in a classroom because that's only limited. Whereas I think an association is career, I mean, it's a lifetime of if you're in that. And I think if you're in procurement, if you're in finance, if you're in legal, if you're in healthcare nursing, for example, you tend to stay in that industry throughout your career. And where else are you going to find that environment where somebody's doing exactly what you're doing, maybe with a different company, but you're experiencing the same challenges and frustrations and opportunities. And the ability to actually have this conversation within a trusted environment, to me, is the whole reason why associations, again, were created and formed was to protect, promote, and advance our industry with you at the center, with our member at the center of that. And so I think that's the... You're making an investment in yourself. It's not [inaudible 00:51:37]. 

Rozalyn Werner-Arcé:  

100%. And if I could just also add, the difference between public procurement and private procurement, private is much more competitive. Public procurement, it's a very sharing community. So rather than having to reinvent the wheel, if you need an RFP, a sample RFP for snowplowing, you don't need to start right from scratch. You can post on the message board and say, "Hey, I'm doing this procurement. Does anybody have a template they'd be willing to share with me? Does anybody... I've got this question from a supplier and I'm not sure how to handle it." They've got this community where they can ask. 

And the other thing, when we're talking about value, I also just want to say, procurement in the past may have been viewed as an administrative function, public procurement as administration. Now we need to be thinking of it as being a value to the leadership. Procurement shouldn't be the last step in a process. Procurement should be at the planning table in any organization, whether it's at the leaders table in a municipality or at a school board or in a company, because the value that they have to bring. So again, it's about that community and talking together to think about, "So how do we do that? How do we shift our role with our organization, with our entity, with our leaders and help them understand the value that we bring?" 

Bill Sheehan: 

Yeah, I think that's so well put. And I think in closing here, and you've been very generous with your time, that was a very fast hour, Roz. One of the things I often think about too that really helps individuals, I think, just advance through life is continual exposure to education, professional development, and learning that you get smarter as you go through. And it's information that can be trusted. I mean, right now, no one trusts the media and surveys are showing, you know what people are starting to trust now? Nonprofits and associations because of the subject matter experts. And the information they're providing and the network that they provide and kind of the trust and confidence that they bring, the associations bring, I think are starting to rise above all that clutter out there. 

And I think people are saying, "I want to be part of this and I feel like I'm getting something from this and I will continue to be." And before you know it's advancing your career. And that's where I think mentorship's coming in and all of these other things that are so critically important to kind of not pushing you through your career, but pulling you through. In other words, you have someone there that is trusted and there's strength in there and it's going to really help you become the best person and individual you can be with trusted learning, professional development, upskilling, certifications, what have you. And I think associations provide that and will continue to provide that better than anyone else because of the diversity of that intelligence that comes to bear on that. 

So I think you're doing wonderful things at your organizations and that was heard throughout the summer leadership how well you're doing. So thank you, Roz, so much for your time and being here. You've been very gracious. And I think a lot of our listeners are going to find some really good nuggets of intelligence here. So thank you for your time, and I wish you and the entire industry much, much success. 

Rozalyn Werner-Arcé: 

Well, thank you so much, Bill. This has been a great experience. I really appreciate being invited here and hope we can continue the conversation this coming summer. 

Bill Sheehan: 

We will. I promise you that. We will. 

Rozalyn Werner-Arcé:  

Okay, good. 

Bill Sheehan: 

Thanks, Roz. 

Rozalyn Werner-Arcé:  

Bye-bye. 

Bill Sheehan: 

Bye. 

You've been listening to Learning by Association, a podcast where we delve into the ever-evolving world of associations and the challenges they face in navigating the currents of change. This episode was produced by D2L, a global learning innovation company helping organizations reshape the future of education and work. To learn more about our solutions, please visit www.d2l.com. And don't forget to subscribe so you can stay up to date with new episodes. Thanks for joining us, and we'll see you next time.