42: Reimagining How Workers Access Their Money with Tal Clark of Instant Financial

Imagine getting paid every day you work instead of every two weeks. 

That's the idea behind @instant_financial. CEO Tal Clark joined the Practical Rebels podcast to share how this approach is transforming financial wellness for hourly workers across America, helping them avoid risky borrowing and payday loans.

From its start in 2017 to partnering with major companies like Papa John’s, Instant Financial is innovating with daily pay, virtual cards, and new financial tools.

If you’re a business owner with employees, you will want to listen to this episode to learn more about this game-changing financial technology. 

Transcript

Welcome to Practical Rebels

Speaker 1 0:00

Here we go, ramsey, are you ready? Sorry?

Speaker 2 0:02

I love that. Keep that energy. No, we're not. We're keeping that. Welcome back to Practical Rebels. And that was just V on the other side throwing that energy.

Speaker 1 0:12

No, none of it.

Speaker 2 0:13

Because we need it today. Lord have mercy. Oh no, it's just a busy day. It's been a busy day.

Speaker 1 0:20

Our brains are a little squishy, so you're going to get this version of us.

Speaker 2 0:23

Yeah, good, brain is dead. Whoa, I'm good with that. Whoa, whoa, who's? That Sounds like Tal Clark, nice. So, ladies and gentlemen, we have Tal Clark, ceo of Instant Financial, here with us. Tal, how are you doing? I'm doing good man, it's a good day.

Speaker 3 0:41

It is. It's gorgeous man.

Speaker 2 0:41

The weather's like kind of like medium. Yeah, not too hot, not too cold, sun's not really out, but it's out. So yeah, it is a good day, great day in Pensacola.

Speaker 3 0:51

It is, it is.

Speaker 2 0:52

It is my favorite part of the podcast. I get this.

Speaker 1 1:05

All this tickles very neat when I open up because I'm into it, I like it, it's good, yeah. So what are we talking about today? Okay, so I'm very excited for this one Tal. I feel like we've known each other forever, yes, close to that. Probably like seven, eight years.

Speaker 3 1:16

Let's call it 2017. Let's call it those covert annex days Collab days, all the co's Was it collab no, no, we met at, yeah, collab, really, when we first moved to collab. You had your little space there because I remember you had your mugs on the wall way back when.

Speaker 2 1:34

Yeah, crazy okay that's crazy, because I remember veronique coming in like peeping out displays and I'm like you know, I see this little person just bopping. I'm like who's in my building?

Speaker 1 1:45

That's Annex.

Speaker 2 1:46

That's what I'm saying. But then shortly after that, tal was over there, it was like a big migration. I was following Veronique around, hey.

Speaker 3 1:54

I do I do.

Speaker 2 1:55

It's a smart move brother, Let me tell you.

Speaker 1 1:57

It's the natural faces in Pensacola it is. They swatch back and forth.

Speaker 2 2:04

They do, they do.

Speaker 1 2:06

Yeah, and in those days it was co-flight.

Speaker 3 2:09

That's right, there's so many. It was. It was co-flight in the co-lab.

Speaker 1 2:13

In the co-lab.

Speaker 2 2:14

No pun intended, for sure on that so, and then you have Ramsey Coates. Whoa, what's going on here? Oh my gosh Squishy brain.

Speaker 1 2:23

All right, let's get into what we're talking about. So Tal um his in his current life. He is currently the CEO. Actually, you're still involved in CoFlight, but we're here as a board member. Yeah, we're here to talk today about instant financial um, which we've been working with for since 2000, 21, 21, yet right after, right after the big COVID. I'm so sorry that's right, that's right.

Speaker 2 2:48

That was actually brilliant, yeah, yeah.

Tal's Journey to Instant Financial

Speaker 1 2:50

Yeah, thanks, covid, for calling it that. I just completed that circle. That was pretty bad, all right, all right, reset. So it's Hal. Why don't you tell us a little bit first of all what Instant Financial is about and a little bit about your background?

Speaker 3 3:05

Yeah, that sounds good. Let me start with my background, because I think it takes me to Instant Financial a little bit. So, look, one thing is for sure I never had a definitive plan. I just sort of fell into stuff and followed the path that was laid out before me, I think. So I spent some time in the Marine Corps a while ago and then, after that, got out and got in what I knew I was in ag business with a company called Valent USA, which was owned by Sumitomo Chemical, a Japanese company.

Speaker 1 3:35

Hey, shout out Japan.

Speaker 3 3:37

Yep and spent about three or four years there, Learned a lot there, Spent some time in the San Francisco Bay Area for about three years but came back and ran a business in the southeast for them and then had a group that asked me to help start a business that we called Money Network, and that was my first foray into financial services. So we were essentially a fintech business before the word fintech existed in 2001. We started that business and grew that business. It was a payroll card business and we sold it to a much larger business in 2008 called First Data, and I stayed around there probably three or four years but wanted to get out and do another early stage business or startup. So that's kind of where we met bouncing around. Collab doing things like that Was dabbling in a card business at the time and we moved that card business.

Speaker 3 4:31

I was asked to join the board at Instant Financial, enrolled what I was doing into that and became a board member at Instant Financial for a couple of years and then they asked me to take the CEO role and I was attracted to Instant because it was a continuation of what I've been doing for the last 10 or 15 years in the payment space which was enabling payments for people who otherwise had limited access.

Speaker 3 4:55

That's what we did at Money Network. It started with people who did not have access to direct deposit because they simply didn't have a bank account they weren't bank people or bankable people. And fast forward to 2015 and 16, and that's when Instant was started. It was started in Vancouver, British Columbia, for the opportunity to distribute funds to employees who needed them right away. Right, so you need your tips, or you need your pay, or you just simply need money and you don't have access to it and there was no good access. And so that was the roots of Instant or you need your pay, or you just simply need money and you don't have access to it and there was no good access. And so that was the roots of Instant and started. It took investment from a couple of groups in the Atlanta market, moved the business to Atlanta, joined the board in 2018 and took the CEO role in 2021.

How Instant Financial Works

Speaker 1 5:44

And that's what we're all about today is still finding better ways to deliver money to people who need it when they need it yeah, so when it kind of waters, to water it down to people. Basically, I think so many people are just used to the two week payroll cycle and there are a lot of people that need that money much faster than two weeks. So with Instant, I love the brand so much and I'm passionate about it because I feel like it's a brand that truly like impacts and better people's better people's lives and um, it was really started out of. A lot of times when you think about a brand and you know the benefit to the consumer like they were started because the founders were tired of people going getting paid loans which are super predatory, throw people into a longer cycle of debt, and this is something that is life changing. So it's really really cool just to be a part of and have to see the evolution of the company, even over the last five years.

Speaker 3 6:34

Yeah, no, that's, and that's all true, and it's.

Speaker 3 6:36

Look, we know that when people need access to money, most you know and that's the thing we'll talk to a management team or an executive team they don't, in many cases, even understand how the people that are working as part of the organization access money when they need it, and it's typically you borrow it from a friend or family, right? You sell things on eBay that you otherwise wouldn't sell. You work hours that you wouldn't work, even if, if you're sick because you need more, you know you need more pay or you go to payday loan, which is the probably the most popular choice, but the least the choice with the worst, the worst choice I could make, right, and so we're trying to bridge the gap with all that so that if you, if you need your pay, you have access to your pay every day, and we're doing the same thing for tips. So we'll, you know, tips was going away as an everyday payment I mean, wait staff loves to work waiting tables so that they have access to their pay every day.

Speaker 2 7:32

Right.

Speaker 3 7:32

But that that was gradually moving out of the restaurant space simply because there's no more cash right. Everybody's paying with credit or debit, so they have to pay to bring cash into the restaurant, and so we're creating the opportunity for them to still receive their pay every day if they're working for tips without bringing cash in and without having to wait two weeks for the paycheck.

Speaker 1 7:50

Yeah, it's a safer alternative.

Speaker 3 7:52

Absolutely.

Speaker 1 7:53

Like people walk into a car with hundreds of dollars or more.

Speaker 3 7:56

Absolutely.

Speaker 1 7:58

It's dangerous. It is I used to think about like I used to wait tables and cocktail waitress and stuff like that in college and I used to wait tables and cocktail waitresses and stuff like that in college and you're just walking around with so much cash and it puts people in danger? No doubt, yeah. So talk to a little bit about I know we talked a little bit about how the business began.

Speaker 3 8:16

It actually began in what year 2017. Okay, okay, all right 2017 in Vancouver.

Speaker 1 8:27

All right, 2017 in Vancouver. All right. So you had, I think, this very interesting mix of sales and marketing, which is probably a reason that also, you were a really good candidate for that. What was kind of your kind of main goals when you joined the company?

Speaker 3 8:37

Well, look, we really had to. It took a while to sort of understand where the business was. Um, one of the founders of the business, steve Barha, is still on the board. Great guy, he was up in Vancouver that's where he started the business and so Steve was very important early on, and when I was asked to take this role, I wanted to make sure Steve stuck around, and he did, and so he's been a big help and still is a big help as a board member.

Speaker 3 9:00

But one of the things that we had to understand is really where the business was from a product perspective Right, you saw it early on too. From a brand perspective, it needed some work Right, some serious work Would you guys have been a big help on. So we had to understand what the product was, understand what the brand was, what we were going to do about that. Understand the technology that we had Right, where, where the app was that we were using every day to pay employees it wasn't a great spot at the time and then just technology and engineering and product and making sure we had the staff in place to change all that. And so that's what we've done is just we had to evaluate where we are.

Speaker 3 9:38

We spent the last three years or so making those changes, so we've launched a new app, we launched new branding, we have launched a new model for how we advance and recover wages which makes it more available to everybody and works honestly better. It's going to be better for us in the marketplace and we're now in the process of moving to a virtual card environment so we really believe we can eliminate plastics in our environment, which would be new for the marketplace. I mean many of these companies I mentioned. I was part of starting one of them in 2001. Well, most of those businesses got bought by much larger businesses and they haven't changed anything since 2001. So we're innovating around that as well, which I think will give us a great opportunity.

Speaker 1 10:21

Yeah, that's one of the things that I've noticed, especially in the past few years. You guys are constantly like updating and constantly making improvements and really like cause there is. I think when instant was started, there wasn't a ton of competition in this space, and now there's been several competitors that have popped up, so I think that, um, the improvements.

Speaker 1 10:40

obviously, you know you guys are really kind of crushing it with the brand front and the marketing front. We're very connected to your marketing team. We work with them regularly, but a lot of the stuff that we're working on is constant improvements to the app, improvements to the way that people are actually accessing their wages and also adding on new features for the direct consumer. So talk to a little bit about kind of that, because you are not only marketing to the end user, the cardholder, but your main marketing is going to actual the business. The business is the key to actually providing this as a um, like a benefit to their employees.

Speaker 3 11:23

That's right we are. We are in a B2B sales environment, there's no doubt about it. So we've got to. We need to appeal to the business and you know that is probably the biggest challenge I think in the marketplace.

B2B Sales Challenges Post-COVID

Speaker 3 11:34

Any B2B marketplace has probably changed significantly since COVID in the way that we go to market right, just getting engaged with people and cause that's. That's what I always loved about sales and being a business was the opportunity to get engaged with people Right and talk to them about it and build relationships. You know, I don't know why, but it is that has become more difficult since COVID. People are less accessible, want to be less accessible, aren't in the office as much their own cell phones more than they are their office phones, right, so it's more difficult to get in touch with them. So I think that's one of the biggest challenges that all B2B businesses are facing is how do we get engaged with the people that are going to ultimately buy these solutions, and so that's what we're doing. We're figuring out new ways. You guys have been a big help in that we're doing. You know you guys have had suggestions around how we market ourselves and continue to do those things to build that pipeline on the B2B perspective from a B2B perspective, and so we want to.

Speaker 3 12:32

We do that, we engage, we sell to the business, but then we've got to make sure the solution works for the consumer, and what we want to. Once we get engaged with that consumer, we want it to be something that they want to use as part of their life long term, maybe even once they leave their employer, and so we've recently launched the financial wellness marketplace that we have out there. That is really unique. It's providing things like health care opportunities and benefits for employees through our app credit building opportunities, right. So one of the biggest challenges today for the younger generation or anyone that's trying to establish themselves in the US, is establishing credit right. So we're doing that for them, and there's a number of other things we'll continue to add to that app. So we're really a two-step process. We've got to sell the business and then we've got to engage that employee, make sure they want to enroll in our solution and use it going forward, but it truly is a benefit for them.

Speaker 1 13:25

Yeah, yeah. And how do you go about making these decisions, like you know, deciding what kind of features, what kind of things at the end? Because you aren't talking directly to the cardholder, you're talking to the employer. Like, how are you finding out what is of help to that end user that can be added?

Speaker 3 13:45

Yeah, we really need to. You know we stay in tune with the marketplace. We do hear from our cardholders and see their activity or lack of activity, maybe we do. You know employers are asking a lot about financial wellness, so that's driving some of that as well. But when you I've seen financial wellness solutions come and go over the last 10, 15 years, I mean it's been, it's been something that people have been.

Speaker 3 14:11

A number of businesses have tried to start around financial wellness and have not done so. Well, right, and it's simply because there's not a great way to monetize them and often the employer may see something that's attracted to them but it's actually not what the employee needs. So what we've tried to do is understand what they need right. We know that they need credit building right. That's a big benefit for them. We know that many need access to telemed right or dental insurance and things like that, so we're making that available to them. So I think it's really important that we just stay in tune with the marketplace. We do a lot of work with the group at Center for Generational Kinetics. You've seen the report that we've done with those guys and that helps us stay in tune right To know what employees are looking for what employees need and we try to. We try to update that every couple of years and just make sure we stay in tune with the market.

Speaker 1 15:00

Yeah, that's awesome, and I think that that is something that I believe is unique to what you guys are doing. It feels like, and it feels like those things kind of fit within this universe. You guys are moving beyond just this, the original product, into kind of this full spectrum of things, cause I mean, you don't even, I don't, I don't even think about that Like a lot of your end users and the card holders are in like the quick service restaurant industry, things like that, where healthcare insurance might not traditionally be offered, like it's not even something that's expected.

Speaker 1 15:37

So when I think one of the big ways that benefits and you are able to go in and get, be a partner to the employer, to have all these features that they wouldn't traditionally have, which helps with hiring, which helps with retention, which helps with employee satisfaction and all that sort of stuff, um, I remember that right when we were launching and working on the brand, work like that was a huge draw, that these were features that they couldn't get elsewhere. Getting instant access to wages is something that they couldn't get elsewhere. So it was on like signage and stuff like that. I remember revamping all the signs that you guys would provide to like the Taco Bell franchise or whatever it was to put in their windows so they were able to like really kind of like a leg up on the hiring process.

Brand Evolution and Market Positioning

Speaker 3 16:24

Yeah, that's right, and I think really you know the things you mentioned there, it really becomes all of it boils down to employee satisfaction. And what are we going to do? Because once, if we can help the employer improve their employee satisfaction, then then what we're doing also is helping the employer decrease the turnover rate, which is a problem in the food service industry turnover rate which is a problem in the food service industry.

Speaker 3 16:49

Yeah, you know. So increasing retention, decreasing turnover rate, improve accountability for the employees so that you're showing up on time. They really have a higher level of job satisfaction and they're more likely to take an extra shift if needed, right, because they can get their pay today. So all of those things come together and you're right, it's truly a unique position that we're in and a unique benefit that we're offering to be able to do all those things and bring them together for the employer.

Speaker 1 17:14

Yeah, what other markets have, because I know that you had started to move into pretty much anything that is an hourly wage job like nursing. This makes sense, for how has that growth been into other markets and like is, has the sales cycle been different when you're talking to the food category versus health care?

Speaker 3 17:35

Yes, it is, and it's well. The product needs to be different. That's what we've really been investing in is we have been a solution that was. You know, we were working in a vertical market in the QSR space and the restaurant space that was really had a high appetite for our car. You had people that needed banking services and we were providing that. It was a really good solution.

Speaker 3 17:55

When you start moving into nursing and other staffing type roles, where we spent a lot of time retail, you don't see as many individuals that are looking for an alternative bank. In many cases they're already banked. You know it may be with a neobank or maybe with a more traditional bank, and so we had to. You know we've evolved our products so that we can make sure, regardless of the vertical that we are in, that we can serve either of those end users right where they want to be served, right. They may want to move it to their bank account. So that's what we've created and so that gives us the opportunity to move in these other verticals, and nursing is certainly one of them.

Speaker 3 18:30

We're doing a lot of work in the staffing space right now. We were in the process today of rolling out one of the largest security staffing firms in the world, which will be huge for us and we look forward to getting that rolled out. We are looking We've had a growing more in the hospitality space outside of food service, so hotels and other areas of the service industry. So absolutely, we're looking at other verticals and it'll continue to grow for us as we go forward.

Speaker 1 18:57

Do you have? Have you also noticed a difference in how you do that sort of outreach, like as a lot of your sales well, from what I remember, it was very heavily. Yes, you have a very robust sales team, but it's also a lot of like word of mouth because someone who owns one batch of, say you know 20 outback steakhouse or whatever. It was right, they talked to somebody else that and like it kind of grew organically in the early days. How has that changed? Is that still the case? Is it a lot based on like trade shows? Now I know you guys do a lot of that sort of stuff.

Speaker 3 19:32

Yeah, it is. And two good examples of what you're talking about is Papa John's right. We started with Papa John's really rolling out hard in 2021 to replace, to provide tips to drivers right, I remember that and yeah, and there's been a ton of, there's been a ton of growth associated with that because it is franchise to franchise with Papa John's right.

Speaker 3 19:51

So today we cover 70% of the franchises in the US for Papa John's for tip disbursement, which is great. We've done the same thing at Regis Salons, we're doing the same thing at Buffalo Wild Wings and Denny's right now. So in the food service space it's really worked for us. We go to their events. So we'll go to Denny's event, we'll go to Papa John's event, we'll go to Buffalo Wild Wings event in a couple of weeks, and so the word spreads there and they see us there and we really become known as the solution that works in those particular brands.

Speaker 3 20:22

You'll see the same thing. I mean it certainly helps, word of mouth certainly helps. We'll go to the American Payroll Association Congress next week in Orlando. It's a huge event. Most all of your directors of payroll for large enterprise organizations will show up there, and the fact that they're there and they're using Instant we have people that may be considering Instant it certainly helps with that credibility to be able to connect them while we're there at the show. So, look, the thing with shows too is we've really expanded our footprint there because, as I go back, we were talking earlier about just getting engaged with B2B businesses. That's where you can do it today.

Speaker 1 20:56

Yeah.

Speaker 3 20:56

To see people. You sort of need to go to these events, and that's what we're trying to do there.

Speaker 1 21:00

Yeah, and I think there was. Obviously there was a lull in them a few years ago because there had to be, because there had to be. But I think we're seeing a lot of clients do a lot more in-person stuff and trade shows and activations and pop-ups and all that sort of stuff. I think people are like, especially this whole everybody having gone remote for a while, people are wanting to see people again and have that one-on-one human connection and I think that's great. Yeah, there's no doubt.

Speaker 3 21:32

And I wonder there seems like there's some people that don't, but we're trying to get to the people that do and engage. And look, I appreciate the very traditional sales cycles that you've always had, which is, you know, there's definitely prospecting, there's definitely some cold outreach, but there's a lead gen going on there and you engage and you get the attention of businesses and you've always been able to get meetings, in-person meetings, and talk about the solutions and that makes such a big. I mean it's like us sitting here together doing this podcast is a whole lot better than doing it on Zoom right, because we can actually see each other and that makes a big difference. And I think it makes a big difference for the buyer and a big difference for the seller in a B2B environment. And I guess that's one of the things that you know.

Speaker 3 22:22

As I've been back in this role and I've had the experience sort of pre-COVID B2B and now the post-COVID B2B, I really wish we could work our way back there Right. So sort of a goal of ours, as I you know, as I, as I talk to our sales team, I mean I'm always about let's get in person, let's do everything we can to get in, get in person, and I do. I mean, I don't think the buyers necessarily all of them believe it benefits them, but I certainly do. I think they get a better perspective on the people they'll be working with. Yeah, I think that's a little bit of a. That's something I'd like to have an impact on, just for the business in general, all business in general. Let's get back to seeing each other again.

Speaker 1 22:59

Yeah, I'm creeping on your LinkedIn right now. No, no, no, it's good. It's always really cool because I see what, like Monique and Cassania have been doing with the brown stuff and all the templates that they have.

Speaker 1 23:11

And they're just. They're great. You have a really excellent internal marketing team, but a lot of it is like how you guys have really ramped up your LinkedIn as well. I know that's something that they'll started talking about a couple of years ago, started talking about a couple of years ago, like how much kind of communication and outreach and engagement with your customers do you think happens on LinkedIn versus those one-on-one conversations?

Speaker 3 23:38

Well, it's certainly more than it was five years ago, right, and so I mean it's a tremendous tool and it's I will tell you, though it's. I mean it's it's becoming necessity, right, it's not like it's, it's not like we're being super creative and out there using LinkedIn. It's basically becoming necessity. It's like you've got to be there. It's like 10, 15, 20 years ago, whenever it started, you had to have a website. Well, now you've got to be on LinkedIn.

Speaker 1 24:05

It is popping off. Linkedin has blown up in the last couple of years. It has, and I think it couple of years.

Speaker 3 24:10

It has, and I think it's become harder to stand out. I mean, you know this better than anybody. I mean, whatever the thing is it's, how are you different than everybody else on LinkedIn, right, and how are you being effective on LinkedIn? And we've talked to a number of consultants and had people come in and teach and train on LinkedIn and this whole deal, and I think we're being effective. Sometimes I wonder how effective we're being and are there new things we can do differently? And then I guess the other thing we've all got to figure out together is what's the next thing?

Speaker 1 24:40

Yeah.

Speaker 3 24:40

Right, because LinkedIn, I think. I think LinkedIn was sort of started being a thing three, four years ago, right sort of started being a thing three, four years ago, right and now everybody's there, and so how do we separate?

Speaker 1 24:50

ourselves. How does it not become the?

Speaker 3 24:51

nice.

Speaker 1 24:52

Facebook yeah.

Speaker 3 24:54

And LinkedIn Navigator is very helpful. We use that a lot now, and especially in sales cycles. I think our sales team probably spends more time on LinkedIn Navigator than it do just LinkedIn itself. I mean, the combination works really well, so a lot of positive benefit there. Just not sure what impact we're having and I don't know that there's a good measurement of that success.

Speaker 1 25:22

Yeah, what we found is we've won a bio news. You know them. I think Chris and his whole team.

Speaker 1 25:27

We manage all of their corporate marketing and all of their communications come out through LinkedIn and we've seen some really good success there over the past few months. We kind of took it over in December, oh my gosh, so six months but a lot of it has come from. Yes, the corporate page will be posting stuff, sharing stuff, but the individual like Ethan and his team, the individual sales team, using that content as a way to make connections with people that they may have not talked to in a long time or reshare to show what the company is doing. But I forgot what the stat was but it is astronomically larger the amount of people that interact with individuals on LinkedIn versus companies on LinkedIn. So the company page is kind of like a tool for that content and to stay updated and to share what the company is doing and stuff like that. But those connections and like that really big impact very much comes from the individual employees within that company taking it, sharing it, talking about it, using it as like a content resource too.

Speaker 3 26:27

Yeah, okay, yeah, that makes sense and I and I believe we're doing that I encourage the sales team, you guys, you know, with Monique and the team and you guys, we I mean, we've had a lot of material out there, especially as we get ready for events, and I think we're capitalizing on LinkedIn as much as we can. I guess my, my ultimate question is how do we are measuring it? Well, and I think we are, but I'm not sure that we can attribute deals necessarily linked in the day.

Speaker 1 26:54

You know yeah, yeah, we deal with them. We do a lot of kind of thought leadership articles and things like that with kind of true, like call to actions and form fills and things like that. But a lot of that stuff is I mean, we just had a meeting earlier with a social client that we're bringing on A lot of it is kind of like not quantifiable, because it's the thing. It's like people see something and then, like you, stay top of mind and when they have that problem or need to fill the gap and look for a new solution, it's like, oh, I know instant exists because they're always on my feet, because I see what they're always doing.

Speaker 1 27:29

So, it's a weird like kind of world honestly to play in.

Speaker 3 27:33

Yeah, that makes sense for sure.

Speaker 1 27:34

Yeah, but it's super important and you guys have been doing a really good job at keeping that up and keeping that rolling. So I want to talk about I want to bring it back to 2021. So when you first went on board, obviously you know we started working together through a brand refresh. What instigated that? What started that whole? Like, hey, we're going to take on this because that led to the webs. I mean, we're honestly updating the brand again, right, now giving it another visual lift.

Digital Innovation: Virtual Cards Coming

Speaker 1 28:04

But that's important. That's stuff that should be like. It should be addressed every few years and kind of adjusted and lifted over time. What was that? How did you make that decision to take that on? Because that was a big project. And then with that, it's not just like the brand part, honestly, isn't the big undertaking, it's an updating every single piece of collateral that goes out like that's when it gets crazy did you say our stuff before you did that? I did. I think I've blocked it a little bit.

Speaker 3 28:32

I mean, it was this color, this Halloween orange.

Speaker 1 28:35

Oh yeah.

Speaker 3 28:35

It was orange orange Halloween orange, basically, is what I would call it and black. It was interesting. But look, I mean, at that point the business had been around about five years, right? So nothing against anyone who came up with the Halloween orange color early on, but it was. It was just time for a refresh and I think what we wanted to be and we needed to look, we needed to look like more, we need to look like an innovative business in the space.

Speaker 3 29:01

The space was becoming much more competitive at that time. We needed to do something to separate ourselves. We knew we had some product work to do and we needed you know, we needed to have some sales pipeline work to do. But we just needed to say, we just needed to say that Instant was an innovative solution in the earned wage access space, right, and anything we could do to separate ourselves early on. And that was really the first major thing that we did when we got there was let's look at the rebrand. And you know that, in addition to building the right team and then start figuring out directions, we were going to go from a product perspective. It was really important and I think that was it. It had to be. I mean, it had to be more than a refresh. It was everything pretty much, and it had to be. It had to say that we were an innovative company that was easy to work with and that delivered the right solutions for employees right, that delivered an employee benefit, and I think what you guys sort of did that.

Speaker 1 29:58

Yeah, I'm really proud of that one and, honestly, like that is one of our most popular case studies, I think, just because I'm and yeah, I'm really excited to we're going to refresh it again soon and yeah, I'm really excited to we're going to refresh it again soon but it's just like one of those that is.

Speaker 1 30:15

I think it resonates with people, especially with clients in the corporate space, because it is like it's a financial product, like it's nothing that can be wildly crazy and over the top, but it still has it still feels human, it still has like elements of like fun and personality to it like and that's the type of brand that I'm most proud of when we can do, when we can take a space that you know can could be pretty flat, you know, that's right you went about it, the quote-unquote, like safe, expected, way or whatever, and then being able to take that and just like spin it a bit.

Speaker 3 30:45

So it still feels like it's in the right category, but it's different no, it's, you guys did a great job with it and it shows up well too right. I mean, we go to these events and we'll be again at the APA Congress, and all of our competitors will be there, in addition to some of the largest fintech companies in the world will be there, and we've got a brand, and just a brand that shows up with all of that right In front of all that and does well right People with much larger budgets that show up with something that still looks like this versus what we look like.

Speaker 1 31:22

Yeah, and there were some good bones from the previous iteration of it. Like the logo didn't change much, like the smile stayed there and that's become like one of the like, funnest elements to play with. When we just the trade show you're just talking about, we just did a backdrop I think I believe it was for that, but it's got like the smiles just evolved. It's become like this trailing element. I remember last, last year or the year before, you guys did a big sponsorship and had a lot of space on the windows and everything.

Speaker 3 31:50

Yes.

Speaker 1 31:51

And there were like smiles that were leading down the hallways and leading to the booth with messaging.

Speaker 3 31:54

It was like it was a really it was really cool and that was and that was probably. I would say that was probably the year that we sort of launched the brand, cause I you probably yeah, it was probably a year after you got started and we lost everything there.

Speaker 1 32:08

Yeah, it was cool. It was a really fun one, all right. And also, how was that kind of? Because I wasn't super involved in the internal rollout, but you have teams in two locations, you have people that are remote, it seems like overall, even though everybody's not in the same place, everybody had dropped it really quickly yeah.

Speaker 3 32:31

Look, we've got a great team and you know, we really we do have a great team. We've had a great team and continue to build on that, build momentum with the team. And so, you know, because we've just got the right people doing the right things, it was that the brand rollout was sort of non-consequential for us. It was launched and know, we got, we got the spot in alpharetta and we did the branding in the office up there, which is, which was great, and that was everybody bought into that. And then, uh, the spot here in pensacola, which is good, and then, um, yeah, we are virtual and we've got, we've got teams scattered. We got people scattered all over the us and then into canada and everybody's really bought into Instant as a brand and Instant as an opportunity, and that was certainly helpful. Yeah.

Speaker 1 33:19

How big is the team now?

Speaker 3 33:21

We're 50. 50 people, oh my gosh. Yeah, that's grown, we're 50 people and we can do a lot of business with 50 people in this market. So I think we're in the right spot and, uh, you know, we'll have a probably a few more people in Pensacola as we go along, and uh yeah, we're excited about it.

Speaker 1 33:38

I know you're constantly trying to get people that moved.

Speaker 3 33:40

It's a great spot. I mean, why wouldn't you move down?

Speaker 1 33:43

Yeah, pensacola is really really cool. Um, all right, and we're going to bring this up because we're going to put you on the spot when we go back. We're going to circle back to LinkedIn real quick. We talked a little bit about kind of thought leadership on LinkedIn and how that is something that a lot of business leaders do. Now I have you, I know, but you're, you are out there all the time Like you're almost doing it in your own, like B2B way.

Speaker 3 34:13

Yes, I mean, I like we got to get you on camera though. I'm good with whatever you want to do, but yeah, but as far as being I look, that's, that's my thing. Right, and again, I want to be there with people, yeah, and so I'm going and doing and going wherever.

Speaker 3 34:28

Yeah so you're traveling a lot now Traveling a lot. We've had some really good client meetings that I've gone and done in the last three or four weeks. So good things going on and again, man, it just goes great when you get there in front of them.

Speaker 1 34:40

How have you seen? Have you seen a shift in the industry? Because you've been doing this for a minute and business leaders even becoming more of like thought leaders in their industry, kind of the face of the company. Have you seen a shift of that over time? Because I feel like CEOs and C-level people are much more out front than you know. I've been doing this for 20 years now and I think that they are becoming the face of the company in a lot of situations more than in the past.

Speaker 3 35:08

I think so, especially in early stage businesses. I think it's necessary because, I mean, generally, they are going to have the most experience doing things like this and doing other things and being involved in the space that they're in. And look, the tools are there too, right, it's as accessible, um, but yeah, I, absolutely. I believe that you know to be successful in this space or any other space that you know, you've got to be willing to go and go see people and do new things and and and adapt Right.

Speaker 1 35:45

So I see we always give the. We always go back to Maseri on Instagram and I think a lot of that is the tools like the CEO or CMO.

Speaker 2 35:54

He's all of it. He's all of it.

Speaker 1 35:57

But he's getting on and talking about the latest product updates and things like that, but it's not highly produced stuff. He's recording on the phone. Somebody's probably doing some audio mixing or something like that, but he's the one who's the face of the company and I think that adds that human touch to business that people crave now, like they want to work with people that they can relate to, that they like, that they trust all that sort of stuff.

Speaker 3 36:23

That's right.

Speaker 1 36:24

And that often comes from leadership, now more than ever.

Speaker 3 36:28

That's right. And I tell you we need to go back to the relationship thing. I think people still want relationships. They're just building them in different ways, right? And so you know, we see people building relationships on Facebook these days or wherever it may be, instagram or whatever it may be, and I think, from a business perspective, that probably is LinkedIn, it probably is podcast, it probably is, and you know some events mixed in here and there. It's less and less in the office with your prospects or clients, right, it's other ways and, yeah, we've got to find the right balance. Right, because I mean, naturally I want to be in front of people, with people, but we'll do some of that virtually as well.

Speaker 1 37:06

Yeah, yeah. So Instant has had massive growth in the past couple years. What do you think has been key to that growth?

Speaker 3 37:15

Well, really, for us, it's been a focus on product and innovation, right, we have absolutely needed to do some work and have done some work. Because of that, we've got significant growth in our pipeline and are continuing to move forward with that, and I think that's really it. It's innovation, it's being able to communicate with the businesses that we're trying to approach. It's, you know, you have to establish and maintain credibility in this space and I think that comes a little bit from the leadership team and it comes from, you know, sales teams that know the space and know what they're talking about when they call someone. So I think that's it, and then even the you know, working with you guys on the branding. I mean that that helps us start. We need to look like a credible business, right.

Speaker 3 38:01

So I think, you know, I think we've established that we've got a product that's, I think, best in the market now, because we are able to to provide the employer with options as well as provide the employee with options. I mean, for early on, it was there's one way to do this if you're an employer, and there's one way to do this with an employee, and even our competitors, no one was offering more than one choice right. Instant is in a space now where we have innovated to the point that we can offer the employer multiple options for how you work with instant, and then the employee has multiple options on how they engage with instant and receive their pay and where that pay goes. So that's what we've done and I think that's that's leading to our growth and will lead to more growth as we go forward as well.

Speaker 1 38:51

You have any big plans for the next year or two that you can talk about.

Speaker 3 38:55

You mean personal? What's next Both no With.

Speaker 1 39:01

Instant like what's kind of on the horizon.

Speaker 3 39:03

Yeah, I think, look, I think we're excited. We need to see the fruits of what we've built right, because we spent a lot of the last couple of years. We've really spent a lot of time and effort into building these solutions that I just described right, which are now best in market, right. There's no doubt about it that we can do these things in ways that are better than all of our competitors, and so, really, over the next couple of years, that's the big news for me, which is, let's get out and make sure that we capitalize on what we've built, because I truly believe that we can go into any employer and have the best solution available to that employer, and we just have to communicate that and get engaged in order to do that. So I think, with that look, we'll continue. There'll continue to be innovation around. I think, with that look, we'll continue, there'll continue to be innovation around. I mean some of the things that we're doing.

Speaker 3 40:00

Over the next six months, you will see us launch programs that are where someone might want a card, but it's virtual. So still today, there has not been a program launched with an employer that was virtual card only. I think we'll be the first to do that and which will be really unique in the in the traditional payroll card environment literally, and we've got some of them in the office of town. I can carry it down there and see them. I mean we're sending not just us, but everybody in the space is sending boxes of cards to the employer. So if you work at churches, chicken here in Pensacola, there's most likely a box of instant cards in there. So there's most likely a box of instant cards in there so that when you're hired you're given a plastic Visa, debit card that you're going to receive your earned wage access and your pay on going forward.

Speaker 3 40:38

It's great, it's been a great solution. The problem is that solution was developed in 2001. Okay, and there's been very little innovation around that. What we've done with the app and because we've got you know what we're doing from a bank and processor perspective with our partners there, we are able now to do all of that virtually, and so I think one of the biggest challenges for these businesses that have been using these legacy card programs for the last 24 years is they're still managing plastics and inventories. Imagine, you know managing, you know a few hundred churches, chicken locations and making sure they've got the cards there and it's just a system that was built too long ago and needs to be changed, and we're the first ones now with that capability to do that and completely replace those plastic cards, and I think we'll launch the first large-scale client doing that.

Speaker 1 41:33

That's amazing. Yeah, that's where everything's going, I mean you pull out your phone and you scan to pay and use your Apple wallet or that's right you know, and it's just instant, instantaneous instantaneous there.

Speaker 3 41:43

You go Instantaneous into your Google wallet or your Apple wallet and if you want to move it to another account, you and if you want to move it to another account, you can do that too. So we've got we've got all that available now, which is pretty cool.

Speaker 1 41:53

Yeah, that's awesome, great I'm. Is there anything else we want to talk about? Touch on anything else we should know. Tell me.

Final Thoughts and Contact Information

Speaker 2 41:59

Well, you guys killed it. You've been quiet, I have, I've just been. I don't excuse me, I didn't really really know about what you did like in depth. You know, I knew co-flight, I knew you did instant and we've hung around and we talked about it. But you know, I just really wanted to learn and your background and why you got in, and you know what you're doing for people to help them. Because those payday loans are crap, man. So, uh, it's. I just I was just listening, man, I'm really, really impressed and inspired and uh, I think you're doing something really good for a lot of people, man, because those payday loans, man, everybody's like, oh, I got to get paid, Like don't do that, dude, that interest rate's going to swallow you up, You're going to be right back in debt.

Speaker 3 42:39

Yeah, so I was just listening and we got to keep getting the word out. Right, I mean, there are you? Even think about the hospital, like Baptist Hospital here in Pensacola. All these large-scale businesses can use these solutions and they've got employees that need them. Just keep helping us get the word out, We'll be good.

Speaker 1 43:02

Where can people find you?

Speaker 3 43:04

We can be found at instantco.

Speaker 1 43:10

Again, another co. There you go. This is so full circle. Okay, keep going.

Speaker 3 43:14

Instantco, I guess I should say yeah, or or. Or LinkedIn. Or Three West Gardner Street in Pensacola or 275 Northwood Parkway in Alpharetta, georgia.

Speaker 2 43:25

Hey, it's a top golf right around that corner in there. That's right. Yeah, alfred is cool.

Speaker 1 43:31

It is cool.

Speaker 2 43:35

Well, Tal. Thank you for coming on, man, we appreciate you. Thank you for dropping some knowledge and information. I think it's time for us to say Practical Rebels out.

Speaker 1 43:43

Is it time?

Speaker 2 43:44

After you listen to this podcast, please smash a like, tell us the algorithm that this is a good podcast and gets it out to more people. So if you see this on social media or in your podcast, smash that like and I'm gonna say practical rebels. And we're all gonna say out. All right, all right, tal. Practical rebels out.