51: The Secret Behind Logos That Stand the Test of Time

Some logos stick in your mind for decades. Others fade from your memory in just a few years.

In this episode of Practical Rebels, we talk about the five qualities that make a logo truly last. It is called the SMART framework, and it stands for:
✏️ Simple – Clear and easy to recognize.
🎯 Memorable – Sticks in your audience’s mind after one glance.
⏳ Ageless – Avoids trends so it stays relevant for decades.
 🖥️ Reliable – Works everywhere, in every size and format.
💡 Thoughtful – Has meaning that connects to your brand’s story and values.

Whether you are a designer, a marketer, or a business owner, you can use SMART to evaluate your current logo or guide the creation of a new one.

🎧 Now streaming on both Apple and Spotify!

Transcript

Meet Joe and the Design Team

SPEAKER_01 0:00

All right. Hello, everybody. Welcome to the Practical Rebels Podcast. This is Varique. I'm going to be today's host. And with me, we have Joe on our design team.

SPEAKER_00 0:13

Hi, hello, everyone. I'm so happy to be with you guys today. And with you, V.

SPEAKER_01 0:19

Yeah, I know. From right across, right across the building, right?

SPEAKER_00 0:22

Right. Such a far walk.

SPEAKER_01 0:25

Segregated in our own little, in our own little cubby, so we're not talking over each other. But good to talk to you from near yet afar.

SPEAKER_00 0:33

Always, always good.

Why Logos Matter Beyond Aesthetics

SPEAKER_01 0:36

All right. Today we're going to be talking about logos. And Joe is one of our logo masters here in the agency. So we figured what better guests to have here besides Joe. Joe, do you want to tell us a little bit about what you do at Hatchmark?

SPEAKER_00 0:53

Oh, absolutely. I am one of the senior designers here at Hatchmark. And so I do a lot of the brand work. I work with Liz and Sony and John. We all kind of bring brands together. I do a lot of, you know, anything, everything and anything that you throw at me. I'm also uh the mentor, one of the mentors of the internship that we have during the summertime. And yeah, you know, I love it. I love being here and I love the work that we do.

Logos Build Meaning Over Time

SPEAKER_01 1:23

Yeah, Joe's also got a really solid illustration foundation, which I think is one of the core reasons he's so strong with like really what we'll talk about in just a moment, um, smart logos that are very simple, clean, timeless, all that sort of stuff. So we're gonna get some of his takes on how he and the rest of the team approach logo work here. So, one of the things that if anybody's talked to me about branding or anybody on our team about branding, we will tell you we don't deal in just logos because logos are just one piece of the bigger branding picture. But even though they are one piece, that goes along with the messaging, the full visual system, all the collateral that actually brings the brand to life, they are really important. And honestly, probably the hardest part of every branding project is how you like fit all these ideas, how you bring all these ideas into like one simple mark. And I think one of the things that we like to tell people is you don't have to fit every single idea into one single mark. You know, I think that's often a client is struggling to say, okay, does this represent all these things? And it doesn't necessarily have to. That's what a brand system is for, but it can check some of the foundational check marks. So let's kind of start from the beginning. So they are definitely a vital part of any brand. And one of them that carries a lot of the weight that's tied to it. So, kind of before we dig into the details, why is logo design such an important part of building a brand? Why do people just like associate brands with it so much, you know?

SPEAKER_00 3:03

Oh, yeah. I mean, logos are huge. They're really they're the first introduction between a brand and its audience. It's really the cover that the customer is going to be judging your book by, you know? It sets the tone for everything else. A strong logo really can build a lot of trust before a single word is spoken. So any any of your brand, people don't know anything about your brand, they just know this. So it can be really important. It's just very difficult because it's all about kind of subconscious and things like that. But you know, your logo acts as the face of a brand. So in that way, it's it's gonna be on the majority of your materials.

SPEAKER_01 3:46

Yeah. And I think the thing about it too is they end up one of the conversations we often have with clients is like a logo isn't gonna carry like weight and recognition and meaning behind the brand until people start associating it with your brand by interacting with your brand. So it's definitely one of those that thing that even like builds over time as people see more of it, see interact more with it, and have those like experiences interacting with your team, your company, your product. So it's one of those things that has quite an evolution over time as it builds.

SPEAKER_00 4:24

Absolutely. It's it's such a good representation of your brand and all of the values that you have.

Perception: Personality in a Mark

SPEAKER_01 4:29

Yeah. Yeah. Um, so what would you say a logo's role is in kind of shaping the perception of your brand?

SPEAKER_00 4:37

I think it's not just logos aren't just, you know, decoration. They're really a perception tool, kind of like what we talked about, it being a little bit of the subconscious. It's it's really the shorthand of your brand's personality. And that's when it can be a little difficult for us designers to build them in that way. But it you really have to kind of tell the story the best that you can in the shortest amount of time that you can with just that logo. So when people see your logo, they're they're instantly forming opinions. They're thinking to themselves like, is this trustworthy? Is this fun? Is this a premium brand? Does this feel premium? Um, it's really small, but it's really big in how your brand becomes remembered.

SPEAKER_01 5:21

Yeah. And I think that's another thing that we try to check the boxes of, you know, you definitely when you're when you're developing a logo, you don't want to have one that feels like everybody else, but it should feel like it fits within what it represents. So it's can be this tricky balance of, you know, we don't want to be branding a law firm and it looks like it's like, you know, Sky Zone or something like that. Like it can't be like crazy hyper-playful, but you also don't want to sound or feel like every single other law firm.

SPEAKER_00 5:54

Absolutely.

Standing Out Without Misfitting

SPEAKER_01 5:55

You know, or at least have something that is a little bit memorable or smart in the way that it's built or ties to like a greater idea. It can still be very structured and very trustworthy and stable. But you know, having that meaning behind it really brings it to the next level.

SPEAKER_00 6:14

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 6:15

Yeah. All right. So this is something that I know uh Liz on the team really kind of leans into and kind of brought to us. It's the idea of the SMAR framework for logos. And it's really become a foundation of the check boxes that we check as we are working through the design and testing of a logo. Talk us through what SMART stands for.

The SMART Framework Overview

SPEAKER_00 6:39

Sure. So SMART stands for simple, memorable, ageless, reliable, and thoughtful. And, you know, like like you said, it's just a checklist that we use to make sure that the logo that we have isn't just pretty or isn't just something that we personally like at the time. It's something that is actually built to work for the brand long term. So whenever we're using SMART, it it's really a great way to give yourself and your brand a stronger shot at connecting and standing the test of time.

SPEAKER_01 7:13

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. All right. So have you heard of this acronym before? It's pretty new to me.

SPEAKER_00 7:19

Exactly what you said. I actually had never heard of it until getting here and hearing it from Liz. And I I mean, we I love it. I think it's been so great because a lot of times, me specifically when it comes to design, the thing that I struggle with so much is like the framework of things. It's like I want, I want to have a framework. I need some guidance on how to, you know, because there's so much you can just pull from your creativity and things like that. You know, smart is just a nice little way of us for us to put common design principles into something easy to remember. And so far it's it's been really great. It's just a great way for us for designers and non-designers to use because it's you know, it's really practical. And we love being practical here.

S: Simplicity and Recall

SPEAKER_01 8:08

I like it. I like it. All right, so let's kind of dig into what those five five pieces that we check are. So the first one is simplicity.

SPEAKER_00 8:19

Simplicity. And simplicity is king. I mean, I can think of another acronym that KISS, keep it simple, stupid. So simplicity is a huge thing for design. And when we're specifically talking about logos and talking about smart, a simple logo just means that it's quicker to be recognized and there's quicker recall. So if anybody sees your logo and then later on somebody's like, oh, what was the logo? You know, a mark of a good logo is that somebody can recall it, you know, they could draw it on a piece of paper, having you know seen it once or twice. You we think of some of the best logos out there, like the Nike swoosh or the Apple logo. They're so simple. And it's interesting because they have to kind of be that simple because when they're on collateral, when they're on websites, they're working with so much other stuff. So it's really just it's got to be something that is super clever, super simple, and and then not super complex. Because the more complex you get, you also think about scaling, the smaller you shrink the logo. The complexity is just gonna get so muddied. So you want something that's just simple, that is scalable in all of those ways.

SPEAKER_01 9:36

Yeah, yeah. I just had this visual of like playing Pictionary as a kid and the whole idea that you know, strong logos, somebody able, no matter their drawing abilities, should be able to do like a quick sketch, remembering what's in that logo, what it looks like if they were playing Pictionary, right?

SPEAKER_00 9:53

Yeah, and you think of you think of some of the best logos out there, and and you think, yeah, that's you know, Target, that's easy to do, you know.

SPEAKER_01 10:00

I know. I hate the fact that so many of them, so many of the simple ones are already done. It's like I know we need more logos, we need more colors.

SPEAKER_00 10:07

That's the thing being a designer in here is we we always will come up with logo ideas and then we'll reverse image search it, or we'll we'll scour the internet and make sure that it it isn't anywhere else. And so often we're like, oh, somebody's used this before. And we're like, okay, so we got to come up with something else.

SPEAKER_01 10:26

Exactly. Exactly. And that's also the thing is like, you know, your ideas can also be incorporated, like the core principles can all still be incorporated and represented within the brand. That's what a visual system is for. And that's why we lean into visual systems and full systems. Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_00 10:41

And as important as it is to have those little cues in the logo that ties back to it, exactly what you said. All of it doesn't need to be in the logo, it could just be one little thing, you know.

SPEAKER_01 10:52

Yeah, yeah. All right, let's move on to M Memorable. So we want to be simple yet memorable.

M: Memorable Through Distinct Hooks

SPEAKER_00 10:59

So, how would you that's one of those fun things in design is these opposites sometimes are hard to deal with. But memorability for us really comes from just uniqueness. For us, it's a memorable logo, it's built on strong color choices, clarity, very distinctive design. If your logo looks like a thousand others in the industry, it'll just blend in.

SPEAKER_01 11:22

Blend in, yeah. And also concept, too. I know that's one of the things that is like based off of something or has that smart, like the the FedEx logo, right? Where there's the arrow within it. It's those small little differences that make it stand out.

SPEAKER_00 11:37

Yeah, it it's having that distinct visual hook that sticks into your brain sometimes is is really great. You know, I think the Apple logo has a little bite taken out of it. There's all these little things that they can be very simple, but it's gotta be simple and memorable.

SPEAKER_01 11:55

Yeah, yeah. Awesome. So then moving in, and this is one that we feel very strongly about is ageless brands that want to have avoid having an outdated logo in two to three years. What does that look like?

A: Ageless, Not Trend-Driven

SPEAKER_00 12:08

Yes. So the best way that we've, I mean, I handle this is you really just avoid chasing trends. And the way that you can tell, I mean, a lot of ways, it's kind of easy to to know if something is a trend. But if there's something that's super popular right now that you're seeing so much of, something that comes to mind is that like anthropomorphic little coffee cup that's like walking and has like have a good day over its head. There I see so many logos like that now. And it's just one of those things that it might be, it might seem like a shortcut sometimes for a designer because it is trendy. It's something that you could do, but that's it's never gonna stand the test of time. There's so many times I see logos that you know were just made in the 90s or made in like the early 2000s, and a lot of times that can be, you know, the imagery you use, but also sometimes it's the fonts. Like anytime I see the font lobster, I think of like graduating from college, like eight. Yeah, exactly. And yeah, that's a great example of somebody using something that was very trendy at the time, but it was like a defont font, I think, or something like that. Oh, yeah, it was. I downloaded it from DeFont, I know.

SPEAKER_01 13:22

I remember campaigns that we built that used it for sure. Yeah, way back when. But one of the things, too, I think is interesting about that is because I think this is one that you can follow general, you know, rules as far as like avoiding things that are hyper trendy right now. But there's gonna be stuff inevitably that ends up feeling like dated, and you start to be able to tell that it's aged over time. And that's why like logos get lifts, they get updates, they get slight refreshes, and that doesn't mean having to like burn it down and start over. It just means bringing it into the decade that's different from the decade that it was born in. But of course, then you know, you get into the issue of the cracker barrel drama, man.

SPEAKER_00 14:05

You do get people the cracker barrel drama.

SPEAKER_01 14:08

Yeah, people become so attached to something that is that's just because it's so embedded in like people's like lives and cultures and stuff they grew up with and love. So yeah, I like to think of even like the Wendy's logo when they did a wet logo refresh, like I don't know, maybe 15 years ago or so. Like it still felt the same and it just felt fresher, you know.

SPEAKER_00 14:25

Yeah, and I think too, you know, yeah, the cracker barrel one that was such a dramatic change from what it was. So that's something too that you you kind of have to take into account is how big of a change is this is this going to be whenever you're updating logos.

SPEAKER_01 14:43

Yeah, yeah, agreed. All right, then to our trusty R reliable. This is the test that we always run everything through for sure.

R: Reliable Across Every Medium

SPEAKER_00 14:53

Yeah, so a reliable logo works everywhere. It just means that it's it's resizable, it can work on a billboard, it can work on a phone screen, it can be embroidered on a hat, and it can work in black and white. A lot of times people might think if if you don't design or if you're not in the industry, you think of like a logo could just be one image. But a lot of times, whenever we're designing logos at the end, we have so many versions. We have the inverted versions, we have ones on different backgrounds. And and sometimes even like when you invert a logo, you have to kind of change the actual logo, make it a little bit smaller just so optically it works a little bit better. But all of these things, you know, are things that you got to think about because this logo is going to be on so many different things, especially in this day and age when everything is so digital. It's going to be up against a lot of things. So you want to make sure that the readability is consistent and it holds its integrity no matter the size.

SPEAKER_01 15:54

Yeah. And also one of the things I think that we are, I mean, this has been this way for such a long time, but things are going even more digital. Like we barely print things anymore. Like it's pretty rare, but still keeping into mind like color modes. Like if you're designing something for a website and what was it? The uh Vista Techworks like brand that you did with the interns, like that is fully built for digital because they are just straight digital company. But you know, you all thought through CMYK, hey, if things will be printed, so it's sizing, it's stacking, it's use case.

SPEAKER_00 16:33

Making sure you have all of that checked out. I was working on something the other day, and I I think it was just a um a presentation deck, and I uploaded a photo and it was CMYK, and it needed to be RGB, and the colors were just insane. So it's it's one of those things. You always have to make sure that you have your RGB versions, your CMYK versions, all of these that make sure that it's it can be changed no matter what.

T: Thoughtful Storytelling That Sticks

SPEAKER_01 16:58

Yep. All right, and finally onto T. Thoughtful. How does adding more meaning or using storytelling like impact a logo's effectiveness?

SPEAKER_00 17:08

Yeah. So exactly what you said about the FedEx logo, you know, it's the thoughtfulness is what makes a logo kind of emotionally stick. Or to me, it's always that that like, oh, moment that the client, you know, you you kind of explain the story behind the logo, and then then the client's like, oh, I see that. And it's this is honestly my favorite part. Like coming up with the concept, that thought that kind of ties it all together is such a fun and difficult thing to do sometimes. But whenever you can tie your logo back to like a story or the mission or value of the business, it resonates so much deeper. And it's not just, you know, it's not just nice to look at. It feels like it belongs to the brand.

SPEAKER_01 17:54

Yeah. Yeah, I completely agree. Like we're coming on the tail end of the Baldwin County Economic Development Alliance. We're gonna have a new name, they're gonna have new brands. And that's one of the things like we've gone back and forth on the final logo for a bit. And, you know, we're all sitting in a room and and playing with some variations and trying some different things. And we came to one concept kind of landed, and everybody like looked at it and was like, that's it, that's it. Like that gets our idea across, like that resonates with us. Like you feel it when there's a logo that makes a lot of sense for what you're trying to bring to life.

SPEAKER_00 18:27

Absolutely. And a lot of times I've I've found that that this step, the that thoughtfulness is really what can sell a logo to a client.

SPEAKER_01 18:36

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And gives them something to like rally around for their team. Like it's really a good internal, like resetting of you know, where are we headed as an organization and all these things are represented within not only the brand, but culled down into this one simple mark.

SPEAKER_00 18:53

Absolutely.

Using SMART as a Non-Designer

SPEAKER_01 18:54

Awesome. All right, so we've talked about a lot of things today that I mean, I think to us seem super straightforward because we are in this world every day, but there might be people out there that are thinking, like, I'm not a graphic designer, none of this is helpful. What do you say to those who might be business owners, brand marketers? How can they use this smart framework to their advantage?

SPEAKER_00 19:20

Yeah, I mean, the great thing about it is that it's not just for designers, it's really just a tool for decision making. You know, business owners can use it whenever they're looking at new logo options, like what you said earlier. I mean, this year there have been so many logo renewals, logo updates that have been in the news. And this could be just like a fun thing for people to at home to be like, look at these logos that come out and say, you know, is this simple? Will people remember it? Does it feel timeless? Can I rely on it everywhere? And does it reflect who we are? Even if you're not the one, you know, designing the logo, you can still use Smart to guide the process and to really get to make sure you're getting what you want out of that logo.

Closing Thoughts and Thanks

SPEAKER_01 20:07

Yeah, exactly. And I think that that's also one of the things that every single time a new logo comes out, you know, it's a will the public tear it apart or not. Like, you know, take a second, take a look at the reasoning behind the, you know, why some of these were decisions are made too. And I guarantee you a lot of these have gone, you know, via a similar framework that is checking similar boxes, email, or a logo that will lust, that is durable, that will work at different things, and it represents a concept, not just a simple mark. Yeah, so there's it's it's a great guide to kind of like look at logo design, whether it's your own brand or number three that you can see. All right. Thank you so much, Jill. This was super helpful.

SPEAKER_00 20:54

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 20:55

I know that people are able to get something out of this and see why logos are built today that they're gonna be. All right, until next time. Practical rebel.