MaryFrances Gonzalez Owner & Speech Pathologist of Sound Mouths

Ever wondered how a speech pathologist could revolutionize the world of orthodontics and dentistry? That's exactly what we're unpacking today. Join us as we navigate the interconnected paths of consulting, specialized therapies, and the powerful influence of myofunctional therapy in preventing orthodontic issues. Our deep-dive explores how creating educational video content and hosting events can help establish a speech pathologist as an expert in the field. Plus, we get candid about the collaborations with dental professionals that are enhancing patient outcomes and shaping a new frontier in comprehensive care.

Spotting a child's mouth breathing or hearing their snoring can be more alarming than you think – it's not just about getting a good night's sleep. Our discussion takes you through the often-missed signs of speech sound and oral facial myofunctional disorders, unmasking their potential ties to broader health concerns such as ADHD. We stress the vital role of early intervention and the holistic approach to treatment that ropes in various specialists. With insights on the importance of pediatricians and dentists in early detection, we emphasize that looking beyond the symptoms to the core of a child's health is key to fostering their overall well-being.

Balancing the scales between a thriving career and family life can be a high-wire act, but it's one we embrace with open arms and a dose of reality. Listen as we share our personal narratives on juggling motherhood, personal passions, and the entrepreneurial spirit necessary to run a successful business. From the nuances of networking to the power of following one's gut instincts in health matters, this episode is a testament to the courage it takes to advocate fiercely for the health of our children – and ourselves. And as we sign off, we celebrate the joy and hope that come from helping others break free from the shackles of dependency and embrace a life of independence through effective therapy.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:31

I actually want to do more consulting, and that's where I want to expand.

Speaker 2: 0:34

Where have you started? Have you done anything like that yet? No, not yet. Okay, I was going to say so with consulting. You've got to get yourself out there, yeah. Video content speaking in front of people hosting virtual events, inviting them in, or even it's not just going to be local people, right, it can be.

Speaker 1: 0:53

I think that I can reach more people by helping people to put what I do into their practices.

Speaker 2: 1:00

Yeah, that's going to make it. Yeah, it's a smarter growth plan too, because I know what it takes to open up a completely new space and the new staff and team and training and finding staff that has because of that specialty we have.

Speaker 1: 1:16

They have to really be dedicated to going to seek out this new knowledge that we don't already learn in speech pathology grad school, yeah, so it's a really it makes a big difference and not everybody wants to do that and that's okay. The ones that do want to do that are seeking out to come work for us. But I do think that the missing link to making people a lot healthier and better in dentistry and orthodontics is my functional therapies. It works well to help their patients because the reason they're even there is because of the mouth.

Speaker 2: 1:51

You know? Do you know Natasha Gillis?

Speaker 1: 1:53

So I know about her and I know about that group that she does Okay. So actually I was going to see if you could connect me one day.

Speaker 2: 1:58

I would love to connect you too, because she is in front of all of the orthodontists, at least in this area. Yes, so there's a dentist.

Speaker 1: 2:05

The people she works with is dentist consulting. They do like dentist consulting, how to build their practice and things like that. I want to do that, but for speech pathology or maybe even orthodontist, to help them understand how what we do really changes the trajectory of their patients. You know future, because they're moving teeth, but the reason they got in that situation is that the tongue wasn't doing what it's supposed to be doing. So if you've never fixed the root cause problem, there's a good chance of orthodontic relapse. And I'm trying to get out there to talk to orthodontist and dentists because they're really the people that see this firsthand, especially pediatric dentists. Yeah, they will see this issue already at two and three years old. Yeah, so if we can, I've got a summary for us to connect you to.

Speaker 2: 2:53

I've got some people to connect you to that are pediatric dentists.

Speaker 1: 2:56

Dr Tooth Clues already work with.

Speaker 2: 2:57

Okay, that was the worst, that.

Speaker 1: 2:58

I was supposed to do? Yeah, I worked with her. She does a lot of infant frenectomies and I don't work with infants. Okay, I don't want to work with infants. It's different. It's new moms yeah, new moms is hard and they do a lot of frenectomies. And I work with 15 months to adults. Got it?

Speaker 2: 3:13

Yeah, I actually, so you tell them what you do. I know what you do, but Okay, well, I have a practice.

Speaker 1: 3:20

My practice is located in Broadlands. It's called Sound Mouths. We have morphed from where I originally started 13 years ago as teach speech, where we are only providing speech therapy services, and since 2018, when I began my journey in oral faciomology, we have morphed into working with teens and adults and helping treat oral facial myofunctional disorders. What are those? I'm going to ask a good question. So speech pathology kind of encompasses working with oral facial myofunctional disorders, because we do work with the muscles of the mouth normally right.

Speaker 1: 4:01

Well, speech therapy works on articulation, language delays, such as expressive or receptive language, reading and writing difficulties. Oral faciomology is the study and the treatment of the oral facial muscles and how it relates to feeding, swallowing, speech, dentition and overall health and wellness. So for me, as a speech pathologist, it kind of crosses over and it's really like the missing link, because you'll have these children in speech therapy for their speech sounds for years and years and years and really the problem is the muscles of the mouth or maybe the structure of the mouth, whether it's the tongue or the narrow palate or things like that.

Speaker 2: 4:42

So, in terms of getting this information out, because, yeah, I think a lot of people whether it's professionals in the industry or just regular people that have no knowledge of it, they don't necessarily know what's wrong or why things don't work, and they're going to go to the people the speech service, the orthodontist, the dentist and they might not necessarily have the information. Now, do you have some tips for?

Speaker 1: 5:12

Like how you could identify. That's what those are the words I'm looking for how you could identify, okay. Yeah, well, if you're looking at, most people can pick up on a speech sound disorder, right, because their child is unintelligible or they're not saying sounds, right. But when we're looking at the oral facial malfunctional disorders we're kind of looking at there's a variety of them, but what you can kind of look for is is your child sitting with their mouth open and their tongue low and down? Are they nasal breathing or are they mouth breathing? If they're mouth breathing, usually their mouth is also open. Are they messy eating? Are they loud eaters? Do they snore when they sleep? Those are just kind of like some easy ones.

Speaker 1: 5:58

Or tongue thrust, like if you go to the dentist and the dentist says oh little Johnny has a tongue thrust. The tongue thrust is simply the symptom that something else is not going on in the mouth, and I do find like a lot of our parents have done their research before they even walk in my door, majority of them. Sometimes the research is really spot on and other times it may not be. So there are some really great places to find information without going down the fear rabbit hole, right, yeah, dr Google, dr Google, yeah, and everybody does it. I mean, I researched, not Dr Google, and that's how I found out about oral phishomology and started realizing that I had all those symptoms as a child and that my second son had it, and that's what started me on my journey to study that in 2018.

Speaker 2: 6:45

What are some of the treatments? Treatments, yeah, meaning Like when you identify that you've got some of those challenges Like what do you do? So, okay, I'm writing it down. For some you were so in it that you're like either people are coming to me because they already identified it, but then for everybody else that's listening to this, just to kind of make it more.

Speaker 1: 7:07

Yeah, I tend to get caught up in that speech world where we get really detailed about things. So if somebody has concerns, if somebody were to have concerns like and usually you see them really early on, I mean here's the big thing. I wish that I could have anyone who has a two year old and talk to them about. These are what you need to look out for as you're beginning your journey of speech and language development or feeding development right, because you start to see things break down between two and five years and you can really that's even before facial growth has stopped growing, which is about what? Approximately seven years of age If you can get in there early and identify it and work with not only my functional therapist. I have to work with other people to make things happen. So I work on the muscles and getting them to do what they're supposed to do, and then sometimes we have to refer out to a dentist or an orthodontist for expansion or maybe they have really tight cranial structures. So we work with a cranial sacral therapist. So we work with and then the ENT is always on my list, because a lot of the children that have some of these myofunctional disorders the really poor sleepers. They might have already have a diagnosis of ADHD and, I think, every child. We have a growing epidemic of sleep disorder breathing in children and we also have a growing epidemic of ADHD, add and ADHD, which makes you wonder like, is that really the case? Because sleep disorder breathing in children and ADD symptoms are very, very similar. So I firmly believe if your child has a diagnosis, I do believe it is a true diagnosis. But they should also differentiate by getting a sleep study to see if that is also another one of their problems or if that is actually the real problem and not the tension.

Speaker 1: 9:01

So nine times out of 10, a mother or a father already knows something's up. They're just not sure where to go. So that's why their first point in contact is always the pediatrician, right, and that's why I make it a point to literally go to pediatrician's offices and to give them information and to try to build a relationship so they can, and not to try to sell them. To build a relationship say, hey, when you see this, this is what you need to look for and when you see this, you can send it to these people. That will best help your patient. So pediatricians are always their first stop or a pediatric dentist and they do really. We have some really good pediatric dentists in the area as well, and there are some good pediatricians as well in this area.

Speaker 1: 9:45

I do think that Northern Virginia needs more knowledge in the area of oral facial myofunctional disorders, and it's totally part of my mission, of my practice, is to get out there to help educate, and I'm happy to even go to offices and give them my 10 minute easy PowerPoint that says here's what you're looking for, and if you're not sure, it can't hurt to send them on their way for a functional evaluation, because our evaluations were pretty thorough. We look at posture, we look at sleep, we look at muscles, we look at speech and then we watch them eat and in order to really like tell if something is going on, you need to look at all those areas, because they're not individual. They all work together.

Speaker 2: 10:35

So you have a multi-faceted approach.

Speaker 1: 10:38

When I cut in two Birds. I've used what I call it.

Speaker 1: 10:41

Yeah, we use the birds I've used, when you can look down and take all the information to see if you can find where the root causes right, and that's what we look for is the root cause, and sometimes there's multiple root causes. But most the time you can say, oh, it starts here with this muscle pattern and what caused it to go wrong? Was it during feeding? Was it during development, like a congenital thing such as tongue tie? Or did they have some kind of breakdown during their feeding skills? Or did allergies weren't treated and then they had to be a mouth breather? And so we look at that. We try to find the root cause and then work in collaboration with other professionals to remediate what we can to make it optimal for our patients.

Speaker 2: 11:27

I love that.

Speaker 1: 11:27

Does that make?

Speaker 2: 11:28

sense. Yeah, it totally makes sense. What got you into? Because at first you were doing just like the speech pathology.

Speaker 1: 11:35

Just a speech, pathologist, yes, at the beginning what got you into that?

Speaker 1: 11:38

I started researching because I had a patient that he was in therapy for a very long time for R, not with me, but then he came to me and we weren't really having success too. So I just started doing research and figuring out there's gotta be another way, there's gotta be a reason why this isn't working, why he's not succeeding and why it's taking so long. Right, and I stumbled upon oral faciomology and what it does, and it looks at the muscles of the face and the mouth and how it relates to things like that. And not all children that have a speech sound disorder have an oral, facial mild functional disorder, but the research tells us about 81% of them do. So they kind of coexist, right, because you use the same muscles to speak as the same muscles to swallow and to sit there in rest position. So kind of makes sense, yeah. So when I stumbled on it I was like, oh my God, that's why I sucked my thumb to I was 10 years old.

Speaker 1: 12:34

I had an airway problem, large tonsils and adenoids. You know, my facial growth wasn't optimal and I had to have braces. And so, as I started reading more about that, at that time my boy was about my youngest one, was about eight years old and he, since he was born, I was like something's just not right. He's not, you know, breastfeeding was a nightmare. He would sweat a lot when he was a child. He didn't have any speech delays or anything like that, but he just was never really like well rested, yeah. And so, looking through that, and his jaw was retreated.

Speaker 1: 13:09

And so, with this study, I was like, oh my God, I think my son has this oral facial malfunctional disorder that's leading to sleep disorder, breathing, from infancy. But I had no, no way to know and I didn't have anyone really to go to because I, we had just moved back here, I didn't really know anyone. And so I got trained and then, through that and through that journey, you know, I was able to find team members that I could trust, with my son's care, you know, and it wasn't just a one quick fix. He got his tonsils and adenoids out. It's been a journey of orthodontic phase one, orthodontic phase two. He's now 15 and finally sleeping better and his lips are closed and I don't want my patients and their families to go through that, because it was hard for me and I knew what I was looking for. So I try to make sure that, like I tell families, I don't want you to have such a hard time trying to help your child be optimal in their health and wellness.

Speaker 2: 14:08

Yeah, so yeah, no, I think that's brilliant. I think it was over COVID that I had you do an evaluation of my son, calil the little one. Yeah, no, it was Calil, I think, not the baby, right.

Speaker 2: 14:23

I think I wanted to send it was the little one was probably the one that was more open to doing it, but it was Calil that had the problem, still does everything that you were saying. I'm like, hmm, he needs to visit. But yeah, because it's like you, you think of those things as apparent. It's like you see the signs.

Speaker 1: 14:45

You're like, oh well well then you have somebody saying everybody has allergies in Virginia, you don't worry about them, I mean, even if he's mouth breathing 24 seven, but it really like it doesn't just impact like speech and feeding, it impacts optimal facial growth. So all these children that I see, that maybe, or that I don't see, they turn into adults with TMD, sleep apnea. They're on a CPAP, you know, and so if you don't remediate it in childhood or even teen hood, you know you're going to be an adult with that problem, maybe not in your 20s, but as you get a little bit older. That facial growth is like the most important thing that you can do for children and just sometimes, just straightening their teeth isn't the answer. You have to expand. Yeah, did your son get expansion?

Speaker 2: 15:38

No, he actually hasn't seen the ortho. The smaller one is going to be getting an expansion, but they need him to get a little bit bigger.

Speaker 1: 15:46

Yeah, they do. They do do early expansion very early.

Speaker 2: 15:49

some places do if it's necessary, he wants to wait for six months and see how it all lines up. But yeah, I mean like, yeah, there's so much.

Speaker 1: 15:59

It's a lot. You're just worrying about whether they're like eating and growing and learning. That like it's overwhelming as a parent and and I get it because I live in overwhelmed constant and we're now even in the you know college, soon to be college years, that and you think childhoods overwhelming tribe applying for colleges. Are you applying for the colleges? No, but I thank God, I'm trying. It's a lot. I mean it's it's a lot I can't expect. I mean I can't expect I expect my son to handle it, but it's really hard.

Speaker 2: 16:32

And I'm overwhelmed, and I'm at a full grown adult.

Speaker 1: 16:35

Yeah, it's a lot of checkbacks and this app and this app and this website and yeah, it's been fun.

Speaker 2: 16:42

I'm going to ask who are you outside of growing this, not just the practice that you have, but then now the consulting side of it? Who is Mary Francis?

Speaker 1: 16:51

Oh my gosh, I'm definitely a mother of two teen boys who don't really want mothering at this moment.

Speaker 2: 17:00

Which just show up anyways, and I'm a dog mom. Yes, alright, tell me about dog mom.

Speaker 1: 17:04

Oh well, he was supposed to be a therapy dog and he's a wonderful little personality. Like, he loves children, he's very gentle. He's just a little active, so he's not allowed in the therapy rooms these days. What type of dog he's called a feist. A feist.

Speaker 2: 17:20

I don't know that is so 30.

Speaker 1: 17:21

He looks like a 30 pound Jack Russell.

Speaker 2: 17:23

Okay, cute. Yeah, jack Russell's have a lot of energy. They're very, very smart. Yeah, very smart.

Speaker 1: 17:29

For sure he escapes our. We have an electric fence and he jumps over it and doesn't get buzzed, and so he's learned he can do that and he escapes. So yeah, he's so smart.

Speaker 2: 17:44

He said he's too smart, dang it, he's too smart. Yeah, what fun projects have you been working on or are you planning to work on in the next couple of years?

Speaker 1: 17:54

Let's see, there hasn't been a lot of time for any new projects. You mean ones that are on my back burner.

Speaker 2: 18:02

Ones on the back burner or any fun travel plans, just kind of like what's your life updates?

Speaker 1: 18:08

I would like to remodel my kitchen one of these days and my bathroom, but I'd actually like to do it myself. Diy-er. Are you a Pinterest? No, I'm not. I don't know what I don't even know. I would just like to learn it. Who has time to do that? Like you're gonna do it yourself, though, you said.

Speaker 2: 18:27

I said I would like to. Oh, you're like ma'am, it's not happening though.

Speaker 1: 18:30

Yeah, I don't think that's happening until I retire and that might be for like a long time. No, we do a lot of things. So my sons are really involved in their high school, so they have sports and activities and so we do a lot of that in my families here. So, obviously, like Thanksgiving and Christmas, things like that, there's actually not a lot of downtime these days.

Speaker 2: 18:52

Yeah, that's how it feels especially as like I think as a business owner, like you're always working. Because when I'm not working I'm like what's the schedule? Who needs to go where? Right, don't wanna pick up anybody late.

Speaker 1: 19:05

Yeah, it's just hard. I mean, I'm trying to carve out like a little bit of like me time, but I think that's like really difficult.

Speaker 2: 19:13

Yeah, no, I agree, I do go get my nails done now.

Speaker 1: 19:18

That's like the me time.

Speaker 2: 19:19

But even that's kinda like just have to do this for a while, you know.

Speaker 1: 19:23

But then they wanna talk to you.

Speaker 2: 19:24

No, mine are good, they just-. I don't know if that's good, tell me how pretty I am and paint my nails.

Speaker 1: 19:29

Almost Cause. At the end of the day, I like drive home in silence. I'm pretty much talked out.

Speaker 2: 19:35

Yeah, I was gonna ask in terms of, like hobbies, anything that you're working on, do you still? I didn't used to like run Do you still run?

Speaker 1: 19:48

Oh, I did. I did not so much anymore. I was doing some weight training, yes, for a fitness competition. Then I got carpal tunnel so I had to take a little break on that. So I think fitness, fitness training, is a hobby of mine. I would like to learn how to, like I said, to remodel my house. That's a future hobby, for retirement one day.

Speaker 2: 20:10

One day what's been like the hardest part of your journey growing your business, or even just being a mom, being a community member?

Speaker 1: 20:17

I think the initial part of the journey was being a mom with the young kids and being able to juggle that without the mom guilt. Clearly, I got over that. The second part is just the business itself. You know, if you were a therapist, you didn't go to school to learn how to do business. You went to school to help people and it's phenomenal and I love that part about my business and I'm really good at that part. It's the business stuff growing, picking the right team and thankfully right now I have a phenomenal team. But it's really hard to juggle all that and be the primary therapist and then add on, you know, building relationships and things like that and I wanna build relationships and networking groups never really worked for me in terms of like, what did they call them? You know the ones where, like you send me referrals, I send you referrals.

Speaker 2: 21:16

Like the BNI type.

Speaker 1: 21:17

Yeah, those never really worked for me. I'd rather like build relationships with my people who believe in the things that I do, like looking at the whole person and getting to the root cause and then, you know, just having a relationship with them where I can call them and talk to them about, you know, a shared patient and we can like work together to make them the most successful.

Speaker 2: 21:40

That's smart, you know. Something you might wanna consider is like I know I'm not connected to Natasha, but she has a boot camp that she hosts where there's like I don't know how many people 75, 150, something like that Big number of like orthodontist in us that come in there to learn. It's like going out and just speaking at these different groups, oh, I would love to do that.

Speaker 1: 22:03

Right before COVID, we had planned one here with Tracy Nguyen of Lansdowne Dental and we were another colleague and myself. She is an RDH and a certified oral face chemologist, like myself, and we were going to present to Northern Virginia about my functional disorders and what it looks like and how it can help your practice. And we did end up hosting. It was during COVID, but we weren't able to get the turnout that we really wanted to because it was COVID and people. It's COVID. Yeah, covid made it a little difficult, but yeah, I love.

Speaker 1: 22:37

I mean, one of my favorite things is to talk to people, is to teach. Like I mentor GW students so that I can teach them about my functional disorders. I've had one the past two years. I've had one each semester. It's because they don't teach that in grad school. When those girls come to work with me, they're like oh my God, we never knew this. Like this is so incredible because it is life changing. Like we have people that really have great results and they wouldn't even have known that. You know, they come in the door thinking it was one thing and I'm like really, your problem is here. Let's start with the mouth and then we'll move over to all the other things that you're talking to me about.

Speaker 2: 23:16

Yeah, so yeah, if you go back and do something differently on your journey, any part of your journey, what would you change Knowing what you know now?

Speaker 1: 23:30

I would actually probably go to school to be a DO, why I just really like integrative, holistic health and wellness. I think that our body can heal ourself and our body should be functioning how it's supposed to be functioning and that's how we get better and that's what really is. The premise of myofunctional therapy is that retraining the muscles to function how they're supposed to and that creates optimal oral health. So I would do that, and if I didn't do that, I would probably have found out about oral phasomology about the first year I got out of grad school Because you had to go on your own journey in order to find out.

Speaker 1: 24:15

You do. You have to seek that out and I'm glad that I did and I have everyone that I know that has studied that. You know you can't unsee it now. You go everywhere and I could spot an issue like just sitting across from somebody. The airport is my favorite place because there is just a plethora of my functional disorders sitting around me, so I do enjoy it. It makes you know it's good. But then I also see my friends, kids, mike and my own children. My whole family has been. Their whole dentition has been altered, they're oral health. They've all been through everything. They're my guinea pigs.

Speaker 2: 24:56

I'm gonna say you have little cards to be like hey, I've noticed that you have a.

Speaker 1: 25:01

Well, I don't offer free advice to friends because sometimes they don't take it. If they ask, I will be happy to share.

Speaker 2: 25:07

No, I'm saying we're sitting at the airport oh at the airport.

Speaker 1: 25:10

Yeah no, I just kind of it's like my, it's my joy.

Speaker 2: 25:14

Well and I think we've talked about this before back in the day of creating like a network of dentists and orthodontists and people I think before it was about speech pathologists, but now, if you're going out and training or at least educating this network of people, then to be able to say, okay, you know, here's a network of professionals.

Speaker 1: 25:36

Like-minded professionals that are on the same journey. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that would be my ultimate goal, I mean. That's why I want to move towards consulting and teaching, because more people can be helped if you teach people to do this stuff, versus just you doing it, just me being one-on-one and I love it, but I can help more, get open to others, because we always have parents saying, oh, how can? People don't know about this, and I'm like, well, doesn't do busy sitting in this room with you guys, but also you have to look for it. You just have to do your research. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 26:15

But a lot of people don't know what they're looking at.

Speaker 1: 26:18

Right, and then they just go to the orthodontist or they go to the pediatrician and say hey, Right, and that's why I'd love to be in their office to help them understand, like, hey, this is, here's some five top signs. Here you go, ask questions, because it really it isn't just about the mouth.

Speaker 2: 26:36

It impacts gut health, sleep, your memory everything, well, anything where you need proper airflow.

Speaker 1: 26:46

Right Right, if you're not breathing through your nose correctly, yeah, that's a big problem. Definitely, it affects everything.

Speaker 2: 26:54

In terms of like, if you had just to kind of wrap it up, if you had one piece of advice or something you want to say to the world. You know I ask this question. I always love this question, Gosh. Okay, it doesn't have to be anything related to your career right or your mission, but it could be. What would that advice to the world be?

Speaker 1: 27:21

I would say to any person or parent out there go with your gut instinct of what you think is the problem and don't let someone talk you out of your symptoms. And I'm saying this in reference to what I do, because everybody knows what their problem is and, most especially, a parent knows what their child's problem is, but they can easily be swayed by. It's not that bad. Many kids do that. You know things like that. Just go with your gut instinct and find the right people to surround you with. Surround yourself with. That can help you, and maybe perhaps I have somebody and I can't help them for some reason or they need more than I can do. I then help them. Find somebody that's a good fit for them.

Speaker 2: 28:12

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 28:14

You know so go with your gut, go with your gut.

Speaker 2: 28:17

Always yeah, because it's hard sometimes when you know there's something wrong but a professional is telling you it's okay. And so it's like party wants to say, okay, well, I guess I'm okay with the other party. It's like but I'm not.

Speaker 1: 28:30

But hasn't that happened to you where somebody says, oh, you're fine, but you still have that nagging feeling in your gut? You're like, but I'm not, yeah, but I'm not. Or maybe something about your kids like, no, something's just not right? I know, maybe this is still something, is still the issue, I just don't know what that is. Yeah, so you just have to find the right team and it's okay to fire people along your journey. I did with my sons.

Speaker 2: 28:54

Yeah, because they were kind of dismissing it.

Speaker 1: 28:58

Yes, and I did, and I was right.

Speaker 2: 29:03

Yeah, and even if you weren't, though, that's okay. You have that barragett and you have that. You know what I mean, like, as a parent, that's, your job is to figure it out.

Speaker 1: 29:14

Yeah, your job is to take care of your child and to figure it out and, of course, like I don't know everything, but I did know, I mean I Did have that gut feeling and I didn't want to just take no for an answer right away. So you know, there's second opinions for everything. I actually even send all my patients. I go. If you have any concerns, go get a second opinion. You know, if they go to a North Adonis and they're like, oh, they said it was fine, I'm like, well, I think every parent should do second opinions for a majority of things.

Speaker 2: 29:44

Yeah, what's your anagram type? Do you know?

Speaker 1: 29:48

No, you don't have no idea.

Speaker 2: 29:52

It's like that person out, you know, like.

Speaker 1: 29:54

I Think I have done one, but I don't remember it. Can you guess mine I?

Speaker 2: 30:01

Don't know. I feel like you're a. You're between a two and an eight. Just because I know you a little more personally.

Speaker 1: 30:08

Yeah, I'm gonna have to go look them up.

Speaker 2: 30:11

I'm a strong eight. Yeah, I don't think you're a strong eight. Thank, you're more of a two, but I'm a strong eight with a, a two-wing. The twos are like they care and they nurture and they take care of people. The eight is the fighter.

Speaker 1: 30:27

Yeah, it might be that part.

Speaker 2: 30:29

The eight is like that. I'm like you're not gonna give up on what your belief is and you're gonna keep going for stuff I'm passionate up on.

Speaker 1: 30:37

Yeah, definitely for sure. I think you have to have a passion for what you do. Yeah, I mean, otherwise, can you imagine going to a job like my day? Every day is different, sometimes a little hard to take Because you never know what's gonna happen. Yeah, but every day is different and I, I love it. I mean it's bittersweet when people leave me and they're they're good to go, and it, like all my parents, like it's bittersweet, I'm like I totally agree, but like I'm so happy I don't want you to come through these doors anymore.

Speaker 2: 31:04

Yeah, you actually like Solved the challenge versus right well they, they solved it. I just gave them the you guided them to solve it, but versus you know like which. I love chiropractors, but versus the chiropractor you got always go in for, I feel like you always have to go back Once you start.

Speaker 1: 31:24

it's a. It's a slippery slope, that's right, although they do really good jobs.

Speaker 2: 31:28

Yes, they do. Also. I'm saying it's it's not supposed to be like that. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 31:32

Well, that's our hope is that they don't ever have to come back, because they create new patterns in the brain and that changes things.

Speaker 2: 31:38

I Love that, so thank you so much for being on the. Thank you for having me.