The Alimond Show
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The Alimond Show
Rachel Tenpenny McGonigle - Founder of Grief Gal and Transformative Holistic Grief Coaching
What if you could transform your grief into a source of strength and healing? Join us as we welcome Rachel Tenpenny McGonigle - Founder of Grief Gal and Transformative Holistic Grief Coaching, the remarkable founder of Grief Gal, who shares her journey from the heart-wrenching loss of her twin daughters to becoming a holistic grief coach. Rachel's unique approach to grief shatters the traditional view of grief as a lifelong burden, focusing first on physical self-care before gradually addressing deeper emotional and relational wounds. Her insights on distinguishing coping mechanisms from healing skills are not to be missed.
In our conversation, Rachel delves into the profound ways grief impacts our physical and emotional health, emphasizing the importance of recognizing our physical limitations to conserve energy for deeper healing. We explore the complexities of redefining oneself after a significant loss, and the challenges of seeking help while setting boundaries. The discussion offers invaluable advice on navigating the life-altering experience of grief, making it a must-listen for anyone facing the daunting task of rediscovering their identity after loss.
Finally, Rachel sheds light on empowering others to take control of their grief journey. By teaching self-advocacy and emotional resilience, she shows how individuals can move from a state of mere survival to one of thriving. The powerful message of this episode is clear: while grief can be more painful and prolonged than expected, harnessing inner strength can help us lead our grief rather than being led by it. This episode is a testament to the transformative power of inner strength and the journey from needing guidance to walking one’s path with confidence.
My name is Rachel Tenpenny McGonigal and the business I run is called the Grief Gal, and I created a program about 12 years ago that helps people process their pain after grief and loss so that they can live a meaningful and purposeful life. That's wonderful.
Speaker 2:How did you get into this? I've actually never heard of a grief counselor before.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm not the only one, but I definitely have my own take on it for sure. That's why I work in a holistic manner. So I'm a holistic grief coach and gosh, 16 years ago because it was just my girl's birthday on Monday, so they just had a birthday 16 years ago my baby daughters died when they were only a couple of weeks old.
Speaker 1:And so after watching them get very sick and eventually pass away. Ellie lived for seven days and Aubrey lived for 13 days, and then I found myself in the world of grief, trying to figure out how to navigate it and what to do. And I had a two-and-a-half-year-old son at the time who still needed a mom, so I felt a lot of pressure to figure it out A lot of pressure and there wasn't a lot for me and I realized really quickly that the world does not know what to do with a grieving mom.
Speaker 1:And they tell you all kinds of things like you'll never be the same, life will never be the same. You're part of a club you never wanted to join. Grief is forever, things that I remember thinking. I'm not willing to accept that as my destiny.
Speaker 2:Right, nor does that sound very helpful.
Speaker 1:No, it's not helpful, but also it's a strange. There's a strange dichotomy, because I think grief for people is a reflection of their love, and so holding onto it forever, making it part of their identity, becoming their pain, feels like the only way to love what they've lost, and so there's a deep sense of betrayal. So there's a lot of pressure in the grief community to adopt beliefs like grief is forever, it never changes, you just learn how to carry it. Or all kinds of other platitudes and cliches where I felt that no one should have the right to tell me how I was going to feel or what my future held, and that that was not the only way that I could love my girls and honor their memory. And even though I didn't know exactly what to do, I was going to figure it out, and then, when I did figure it out, I was going to tell everyone else who wanted to know.
Speaker 2:Wow. So how did you start this process of figuring it?
Speaker 1:out. First I just went into survival mode. Yeah, sure I just got myself. I need some time to heal. There were definitely a couple of months where I spent a lot of time in bed and all of my energy went into taking care of my two and a half year old, which I have learned that that rest time is actually active time. Right, it seems like not doing anything, but it's actually doing really important things because that rest creates a foundation to build on. I started taking really good care of my body taking certain supplements, drinking tea, eating really warm and nourishing foods, not over-exercising, protecting my rest, making sure that my body was built back up under the toll of grief, because no matter what kind of emotional dedication we have, if our body is depleted and worn out, we're not going to be able to do that emotional work.
Speaker 1:So we need to build our bodies up first, and then, once I felt myself getting recovered, I was less depleted, I felt some energy returning. Then, step by step, I was able to invest into my heart and my relationships and my perspective and my identity and things that helped me redefine what my life would look like without my little girls.
Speaker 2:Oh wow, that was quite a lot to handle at once, for sure, right, yeah, that's why I did it in little steps In a big long explanation.
Speaker 1:It sounds like a lot, but in real life it happened incrementally. And it happened I don't want to say slowly, but it had a pace that was appropriate for me. I didn't push, I didn't rush, I didn't have unfair expectations of myself, but I also refused to not move, to just stay put Right. Also refused to not move, to just stay put Right.
Speaker 2:So it was kind of a balance between no motion forward and a panic level motion forward Right, because I think a lot of people get stuck in that just closed down can't function or are panicking because they should be doing more or staying busy to get their mind off of things and kind of learning that balance, yeah Well, and coping skills are not the same as healing skills, so a lot of times people will pour themselves into coping right, which are the things that distract us, fill the void right, make us feel like we're making forward motion, even though we're really just in the hamster wheel, staying very busy.
Speaker 1:And when my clients come to me, they're usually on either side of the spectrum, so they're either completely shut down and feel crippled and disabled and have no idea how to get moving again, or they realize that they have been moving and moving and moving, but they looked around and said I'm not actually making the progress that I want to make. And those are those need two different types of plans and two different kinds of recovery, because they're completely different situations and so it's not a one size fits all approach Not at all Right and you can't put a time limit on that rest or that grieving, right?
Speaker 2:It might be a few months for some people, might be a few months for some people. It might be a few years for some people.
Speaker 1:Well, it really, it depends on how much you're willing to participate in your own process. So the idea that time heals all wounds or somehow grief resolves on its own is nonsense. It does not. It has to do with how much we participate, what we're willing to learn, the skills we're willing to employ. But oftentimes we don't know what those are, what they look like, and that's a fallacy, a very unfair fallacy, that somehow we all just know how to grieve, we know how to process our pain, when in fact, like all life skills, grief skills have to be learned, and so people will.
Speaker 1:They'll feel this sense of failure and they won't say anything like am I the only one who doesn't know what I'm doing? Am I the only one who can't get through this? Am I the exception? Is it too hard for me? It's different for everyone else. Instead of asking for help to do this and I say, yeah, you and me both.
Speaker 1:I didn't know how to do it either, but I learned, and it turns out what I learned is incredibly helpful, because we, even though our grief experiences are different right, we're all different, so our grief experiences are going to be different. No two people grieve the same, but what helps us and what we have in common in our grief experience is shockingly similar, right? And if all our focus is put on how we grieve differently, we miss the fact that we actually grieve similarly as well, and so the same things that build up my body are going to build up another griever's body. The same things that are going to help improve relationships and expectations in my life are going to help other people in their lives, right, the same emotional processing skills that helped me are going to help somebody else, and they've helped hundreds and hundreds of my clients. So we just need we need to put our energy there. Instead of trying to find how we're the exception, we can see how our collective experience actually helps us find our path.
Speaker 2:It's all still grief together. Describe to me your holistic approach with this, as opposed to, maybe, other counselors or therapists.
Speaker 1:So the very first thing that we do is we start with our physical support. So there's a supplement protocol, there's recipes for what to cook yourself and how to eat Only very few things we keep out. Mostly we focus on what you add in Modifying our exercise. People traditionally weigh over exercise to try to manage. Add in Modifying our exercise. People traditionally weigh over exercise to try to manage their pain.
Speaker 2:I can see that.
Speaker 1:Exercise is wonderful to help get our endorphins pumping again, but it can be just as depleting. So we have to find that restorative level of exercise, not a depleting level. Then we instigate a self-care protocol, and the most important part of the self-care protocol are two things we look at your natural personality, so how you're actually wired, so that we know what will work for you, Because, again, it can't be a one-size-fits-all. And then we look at your actual lifestyle how much time do you have? How does it fit? What are your limitations?
Speaker 1:Then we also uncover anything that might hold you back, Because if we have false beliefs for example, even if I set up a perfect self-care protocol for you according to your personality, your lifestyle if you have the false belief that self-care is selfish, you're not going to do it Right. And back in the back of your head, back of your heart, right Somewhere in your mind, every time you attempt to self-care, you're going to resist because you feel like, well, I want to be a good person, not a selfish person, and this makes me feel like a selfish person. So if I don't help you unravel that false belief and understand how self-care is actually a selfless thing, that's going to create resistance and we have to make sure that we're overcoming those roadblocks or else it doesn't matter how much information, the kind of path, the kind of support right that we have, If anything's holding us back. We want to uncover those things and create, you know, safety and moving forward and right, an actual reason why we believe we should do these things for ourselves.
Speaker 2:And you kind of start from healing from the inside.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, yeah, you got to start. I think that's the biggest misnomer is the toll that grief takes on our body is enormous. So first we adjust our physical limitations and we need to be aware of what our limitations are, because then our goal is to stay as far away from those limitations as possible. We can't teeter on the edge all the time. It's too exhausting. Then that gives us enough energy to start working on those internal things which are myths and misunderstandings, false beliefs, but mostly identity work.
Speaker 1:Because the misnomer is that grief is all about love. We grieve in proportion to how we love. Right, but in reality love is only a small part of our grief. We really grieve in proportion that we know ourselves. If our identity has come under assault this person was my whole world. All I know how to be is in connection with this person. They were everything to me Then we either have to redefine who we are right or our identity dies with them.
Speaker 1:So we have big decisions to make, because identity determines our path, not our love, because love is eternal. If that love is real and it's not codependency and it's not a trauma bond, if that's real love, there's no amount of pain and no amount of healing, no amount of joy, no amount of peace, no amount of happiness that will end that love. And so what I see when I see people say they're struggling my pain is a reflection of my love. What I've come to understand is what they're really saying is if I let go of this, I don't know who I am, and so we need to answer those big identity questions to give ourselves a reason to keep moving forward.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely, and find an identity outside. I mean, your life has changed, things have changed and you need to.
Speaker 1:Yeah, everything has changed. Things have changed and you need to yeah, everything has changed. For most people, a significant loss is the most painful and life altering thing they've ever experienced in their life.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Right, they didn't choose it, they couldn't stop it, right, it happens to us and now we're left to pick up all of the pieces. And then if, depending on our background, how we're raised, our personality there's lots of factors we all come in with a different level of skill right, a different level of awareness, a different level of know-how, and so we're often under-equipped, overwhelmed, physically depleted. All of our relationships change. People we thought would show up, don't People we had no idea would show up. Do People say things like you know, if you ever need anything, call? And then we think to ourselves I have no idea what I need, so how can I tell you? And then, by the time we figure it out, we don't want to call because now we feel like we're a burden.
Speaker 2:Right, I feel like you're putting these people out and that you've exhausted. You've exhausted their sympathy. I feel like in some like, how, like, how many more times are they going to listen to me cry about this Right?
Speaker 1:What's usually true is the people who love us most. Don't have a limit on that. They're willing right to listen as much as we need, help as much as we need, but it's our job to tell them what we need. Right, because sometimes we need a listening ear, but sometimes we need someone to go get us our groceries or water our plants or take our dog for a walk or tell our friends not to come over past 8 or whatever it is.
Speaker 2:Do you think that it's hard to kind of let go of that pride to actually say I need this?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it can be. And sometimes I don't know if it's for some people it is pride, it's just they don't want to have to ask for help or need help. But I think for most people it's fear. They don't want to burn bridges, they don't want to lose connections, they don't want people to say I don't want you in my life anymore. They've just lost someone or something. They don't really want to lose anything else. And so, plus, people have different awareness of boundaries, and so for certain people it's significantly more uncomfortable to ask for help than for others.
Speaker 1:It's also can be very difficult to say no. When you need to say no, people will be too permissive. They'll you know when they're thinking in their head I really don't want to go to this thing. I really don't want them to bring them over a meal. But they feel well, but it's kind and they mean well and I should let them and right, and so setting boundaries is really difficult, right? So that's one of the aspects of my program as well. We learn what does it actually mean to ask for help and to set boundaries?
Speaker 2:What those?
Speaker 1:look like. When do you use them and why are they so? Important in order to keep moving forward.
Speaker 2:I feel like it's such a hard thing when you do lose somebody and those people that want to bring you the meals and they want to do this, and all you want to do is just not even talk to anybody. And those boundaries are so important and you feel this obligation. I feel like to almost be there for other people. Sometimes, Because they feel the need to fill their bucket, to feel like they're doing something for you.
Speaker 1:Well, nothing will make people more uncomfortable than someone else's grief.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Most people have no idea what to do with grief, how to process, so other people's tragedies trigger a deep sense of fear in them, right, a deep sense of powerlessness, so they will resist. Right, if you say it's okay, you know, don't come over, you don't have to bring anything, I don't need anything, they're like oh, thank God, because every time I interact with you, I'm just reminded of the most terrifying thing ever. Right, I would watch other mothers, right, see me coming holding their little babies and just turn around and walk away. And it wasn't because they didn't like me, it was because I'm the mom whose babies just died. And that is a horrifying experience, right. An idea for any young, right? New mom. Just like when we lose a child, we lose a parent, we lose a spouse. Right, our friends are going. What you're living is my worst nightmare, right, but it's really happening to you and I don't know how to process it.
Speaker 1:And so part of the grief experience is one taking accountability for our own grief journey.
Speaker 1:It isn't actually other people's jobs to make our grief easier for us, but as we get more healthy, we can gently and compassionately set a different standard and remind people to learn new skills, to be careful.
Speaker 1:What they say right, good intentions are not actually enough. We do have to execute correctly. Right, we can do very hurtful things without intending to, but that doesn't mean that they're not hurtful, right. And so if we decide to heal ourselves, we become sort of these little beacons of healing for the culture, and then it does get a little bit easier for the next person. We do model this a little bit better to our kids, and then they model it a little bit better to their kids, and now we're creating some generational grief wealth right, as opposed to the reverse, which is usually it gets further and further away from anything healthy and anything functional, that's true. And then, by the time it happens to you, you're not only dealing with the loss, you're dealing with multiple generations of not being taught, not being Right, don't you feel like grief has changed over the decades and years?
Speaker 2:Because I feel like there's a generation that just you weren't allowed to grieve, oh absolutely.
Speaker 1:Like the World War II generation yeah.
Speaker 2:Like you had to just stand proud and get up and go to work.
Speaker 1:The next day and do what you needed to. Don't cry over spilled milk, right, yeah? And I still. You know and what's funny is I encounter that sometimes still right, like everybody dies, right, what they think they're going to live forever. Well, I know, I don't think that. I just think it still hurts when we lose somebody you know.
Speaker 1:And then there's your everything happens for a reason. Someday you'll realize, right, All these platitudes that sort of invalidate or dismiss the fact, that it doesn't really matter why things happen. You know, we could argue that all day long I can make a really good argument that all things do not happen for a reason. And then that begs the question a good reason or a bad reason? If they do happen for a reason, right. But if we even set that aside, what we struggle with as grievers is not trying to make sense of it. It's how do we live without that connection, without our person, without our marriage, like whatever it is that we lost? And so if we could rationalize ourselves out of it, then we wouldn't have a problem. But the problem is we can't rationalize ourselves out of our pain. We can only heal emotional things emotionally, and that's usually the skill set that we're missing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what is the timeframe? I mean, I guess it's probably hard to put a finger on it, but what is your advice to somebody who is grieving that maybe just lost somebody? Is there a timeframe that they should seek help? When do you seek help?
Speaker 1:I mean, that's probably just really personal. Yes, and I always warn people to give themselves more grace, right to not expect too much of themselves, but I think more so it's not about a time frame as much as it's being able to ask yourself is this working for me, like, am I where I want to be right? There was a time in my grief where I was having a hard time and I wasn't myself and my energy wasn't where I wanted it to be. I was having a hard time and I wasn't myself and my energy wasn't where I wanted it to be, but I very much protected that space because I knew it's where I needed to be. For that time I didn't have that sense of I'm stuck here, I'm trapped here.
Speaker 1:I just knew it was a season that I needed to protect. And then I woke up one morning and I thought to myself I don't want to be here anymore. Right, Survival was fine until it wasn't. And then I wanted more in my life than surviving. I wanted to revive. I wanted even to thrive.
Speaker 2:Right, like you didn't want to be in this space anymore, right.
Speaker 1:So I made a pivot and I think what is really difficult for grievers is when they realize I want to pivot, I'm ready to pivot, and they don't know how and they feel unable to do so. They feel stuck Right and so it's not about has it been six months, has it been six years? It's more about am I okay with where I'm at? And the minute you have that little bubble of a thought that says I don't think I'm actually okay with this, I don't think this is really where I want to be, because some grievers, you know, a big part of my program is, um, I'm not telling anybody what they have to do, I'm just telling you what's possible if you want it.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Not all grievers want healing in their life. That's interesting. Some of them want to stay in their grief. Their pain becomes part of their identity. It becomes the thing they use to protect themselves with. It becomes the perfect excuse not to actualize, not to engage. Right, there's all kinds of reasons and, you know, for whatever their own reasons are, that's their prerogative. You know it's a free country. I'm not here to tell people what to do. I just don't believe in any kind of messaging that says it's impossible. Right, grief is forever. Right, well, we could define grief a couple of different ways, but what I do know is the pain of grief does not have to be forever, and if you don't want to be in pain, you don't have to stay in pain.
Speaker 1:So it's the people who are starting to ask those questions, going the way I feel right now. I don't want to keep feeling this way. Right, that's when you go, get help. You go, I'm trying to pivot and I can't seem to get there, and then help just fills in all the gaps for you. Right, gives you the skills and the resources and the insights that you need to start moving right, like if you're just stuck in a boat. I give you the paddle and we start paddling. But if you don't want that, if you're not actually motivated, if you're like I want to be in this place, then don't go get help. Don't let people pressure you, don't let people tell you you should or you shouldn't.
Speaker 2:Right, stay where you're at if that's where you want to be and set those boundaries, yes, yeah, and say because I'm sure people get advice all oh, you need to go see this person, you need to do this, you need to do that, and people's heads probably just are ready to explode.
Speaker 1:Well, and you know, and sometimes people really are well-meaning They'll say you know, I know my daughter's in a ton of pain and she's not even you know being there for her other children, Right, and I worry for her, I worry for the kids, I know she needs help and I say I understand that and that's really important, but even you can't make her want to get out of her pain and be there for other children, right? Can you have a conversation with her that says watching you neglect your children in your pain has me very worried? Sure, we can, but that's different. Telling people how you feel is much different than telling them what to do. They will never listen to us if we tell them what to do.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:Right, and then that's where we establish other boundaries in our lives to then make sure that if someone is choosing that for themselves, we're not enabling them to do so. Right, it is really their own choice. We're not party to those choices that we think are detrimental or making a negative impact.
Speaker 2:Absolutely yeah. What do you find most rewarding about what you do?
Speaker 1:Watching people transform.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Right. They come to me broken and lost and worn down, and they say things to me like you know, I don't even know if it's really possible, like I don't really know if I'm going to be okay. And I say I know, but you don't have to know that because I know it. So all you have to do is trust me. And then we move, and we move, and we move, and 12 weeks later they're in a completely different position and now they're ready to make really informed choices about how much further they want to go, what the next steps look like. But they went from I don't think this is possible to oh my gosh, it's possible, and that's pretty amazing.
Speaker 2:How do you manage dealing with so many people in this, going through the hardest point in their life? How do you keep yourself in check? Because I've been tearing up just listening to you.
Speaker 1:Well, the truth is, sometimes I don't. Sometimes I'm like, oh, so I do give myself that freedom, right, that's?
Speaker 1:one of the things about being a grief coach is I can show emotion and relate to my client in ways that maybe if I was like a clinical psychologist or something I wouldn't be able to. So you know, this is part of why I picked this path, because it allows a little bit more raw humanity in it. But also, I do all of the things that I teach my clients to do. I have boundaries, I self-care, I know when to ask for help, I function at a pace that is healthy for me and my family. I'm clear on my priorities, my identity is set right. I do all of the things that I teach them so that when I feel a lot, I can feel with them. Or I mean because, man, people go through some hard things really, they really do, but I can be connected to that and present to that, but also without taking it on, because that's what I teach them to do Right. I empower them, they don't need me to take it on.
Speaker 2:Right, they don't need you losing sleep over it.
Speaker 1:They're not looking to be rescued, right Watching it click for them, that they are their own biggest advocate, that they have the power over their own heart that they always hoped and wanted to have. No, we don't get to control everything. That's an unfortunate reality. We just don't. We will endure things in life that were not our fault, that we didn't cause, that we couldn't stop, and that are, quite frankly, tragic and unfair. But we can decide how we are going to respond to those things internally, and when I see people start putting that together, going wow, my heart really is up to me. Right, I get to decide what happens to my own heart. Nothing can decide that for me. They realize they don't need a rescuer. Yeah right, they just needed a guide for a little while and now they can walk on their own and walk their path.
Speaker 2:That's beautiful. As we wrap up here, are there any words of advice you'd like to leave us with, or maybe just a mantra that you live your life by considering what you've been through and in dealing with grief?
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, I always tell my clients grief always lasts longer than you want it to, and it's always more painful than you think it can be. And when that happens, take a deep breath and know that you're actually stronger than both of those things. All you have to do is learn how to exercise that strength, right? Grief is not more powerful than you. You are more powerful than your pain. Wow, right, that's what we do. We just, I, teach people how to lead their grief instead of letting grief lead them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love that. It's beautifully said. Well, thank you so much for being here today. Thank you for sharing your story with us. I am fighting back tears, but I loved hearing that. Thank you so much, and grateful that you're able to help so many people with what you do. Thank you.