Speaker 1: 0:42

I am Dr Nicole Kumi. I am the CEO and founder of the Whole Mom, which is a maternal mental health and wellness organization specializing on providing education and services to expecting and new moms about the mental health aspects of the postpartum period, so that they feel more informed, less isolated and hoping to raise some awareness and reduce the stigma associated with postpartum challenges.

Speaker 2: 1:06

I love that. Tell me about your journey. How did you get to where you are?

Speaker 1: 1:11

today. Sure, ironically, I have a background in criminal justice. I was working in the criminal justice field for many, many years, decided to step into community behavioral health because I wanted to get married, I wanted to have children and experience that part of life, and I did. I was very blessed to get pregnant easily, without other interventions, and I had an experience with postpartum depression. About eight months into my postpartum journey with my first child, I was teaching a class in community behavioral health on signs and symptoms of mental health challenges to firefighters and police officers to help them kind of aid in the crisis in the world during that time and found myself reviewing postpartum depression and having that aha moment of I think this is me. I think I'm struggling with this right now and throughout that time I stayed very quiet. I have a terminal degree, I work in this field, so it felt like shame on me that this could happen to me, that I wasn't aware of this, that I didn't prevent this from happening. Like many other moms, I stayed excuse me very quiet. I isolated and I worked through this and what I found was there weren't any services for what I was experiencing.

Speaker 1: 2:26

We provide therapy for moms, but we don't provide other avenues and I needed something different. I needed motivation, I needed encouragement and I needed validation about my experience. So I started to create that for myself. I needed motivation, I needed encouragement and I needed validation about my experience. So I started to create that for myself. I implemented a routine. I was checking in on myself, I was using Zoom well before the pandemic, when Zoom was really kind of up and coming, and I structured this little program for myself to pull myself out of that rut.

Speaker 1: 2:53

And once I got out, I took my journals and I published my journals as a self-help book and self-published that.

Speaker 1: 3:02

I got immense feedback from that book so many friends, strangers, other people saying that they had such a similar experience and I felt called that I had to do something more.

Speaker 1: 3:11

And that's really where I started to develop my organization, looking at the whole mom, not just through the lens of clinical care but through other applications, other interventions that we can be giving our moms to prepare them for this journey. I didn't get any education on postpartum mental health. I prepped my body for physical labor and I was there for my child to cater to their needs, but I had no information about what the realities were and I think that definitely put me at a disadvantage. So now that's my calling. My calling is to take care of moms, provide them with this information to ease their transition into motherhood and really prep them for the birth they have alongside of their babies. Whether it's their first baby, their third, their fourth, it's a different version of you that shows up with different information, different strengths, different challenges. We at the Whole Mom support that birthing process for the moms so that they can care for their babies.

Speaker 2: 4:08

That's a beautiful journey. Have you said this multiple times? Because that just flows so beautifully.

Speaker 1: 4:15

I've, more recently, I've had these conversations with some other providers that have asked me, like what sets you apart, what is different? Because I'm not a doula and I'm not a therapist, I'm a coach and I think about that from the aspect of having somebody on your side that really is providing that encouragement, that motivation for you, and it's really evolved into this providing a birth plan for mom. If she's not okay, nobody else is. So why are we not providing her that education and resources that she needs to be successful in that journey?

Speaker 2: 4:50

I love that. Why do you think it's so important to normalize these conversations around perinatal mood and anxiety?

Speaker 1: 4:56

disorders. I think most specifically because we have a crisis in this country. Our maternal morbidity and mortality rates are steadily climbing and they have been for the last 10 years. We're having some conversations, we're not having enough, and we're not having enough and we're not having enough in the right spaces to make the right impact. And if we don't normalize these conversations, we isolate moms, and that is the last thing a new mom needs is to be, in the postpartum period, vulnerable and isolated. That is a high indicator that something else can be developing and impacting her mental health and could lead to perinatal suicide. And as we sit here in Suicide Awareness and Prevention Month, it's important to note if moms don't know what to look for and families don't know what to look for, we don't know how to help. And it starts with having the conversations and raising the awareness, creating spaces where people feel like you might be able to help me.

Speaker 2: 5:48

What are just top three signs off the top of your head.

Speaker 1: 5:52

So for each. I think when we talk about postpartum, a lot of times people say oh, she's postpartum, it's a period of time, it's not a diagnosis, and under that umbrella we have perinatal anxiety, postpartum depression, psychosis, OCD. We have several different challenges. Something that I always talk about first is sleep. Ask a mom how often she's sleeping.

Speaker 1: 6:13

The sleep deprivation is one of the leading causes for the development of perinatal mood and anxiety disorders, most specifically psychosis, which is very dangerous. So we talk about sleep. If she's sleeping less than four hours a night, we might wanna apply some interventions, and we do that through an average. Look at seven days, how often? What is the average number of sleep? Loneliness, crying, lack of interest in things that were once interesting. Now we all know, in the postpartum period we lose interest in a lot of areas because we're busy, we don't have the time, but if there isn't a desire to want to engage, to want to socialize, and it's not getting better. So what I tell people is get educated on the signs and symptoms for each disorder and then you want to look at the intensity, the frequency and the duration of those. They play key roles into the development of these disorders.

Speaker 2: 7:09

That's good. What message do you want every mom to hear when they're navigating that last trimester?

Speaker 1: 7:15

I want you to know that everything that you're feeling is valid. Every experience is personal. It's yours and it feels very lonely and it's not supposed to feel that way. And if you do feel lonely, you can reach out, you can find resources, you can chat with other professionals. It feels hard, because it is hard and understanding, looking at yourself and providing yourself that compassion that you give to your children. A baby's birth is hard. They cry a lot, a whole lot. They're hungry, they don't know what's happening, they don't know how to say what is going on. It's the same thing that's happening for our moms as they make this transition. They need that compassionate care. They need to track their growth and their development so that we can look at forward progress not just through the lens of how difficult things are.

Speaker 2: 8:02

What kind of culture have you built at the Whole Mom to ensure moms feel safe, seen and supported?

Speaker 1: 8:08

Great question, an inclusive space. I think we all look sound and show up very differently, which means we need different supports and resources, and for me, it's always doing some market research with my audience and finding out what services are you missing, what services specific to socioeconomic status, to ethnicity, to background. I have something for every mom and whether that is top-tier coaching services or free guides and resources, there is an entry point for every mom to get something that will benefit her, and I just create that culture of safety. I let moms know that they're safe here and if we can't give them what they're seeking at the whole mom, we'll find it for them. We link up with other providers and we make that handoff. We don't leave moms to figure it out on their own.

Speaker 2: 8:57

Leads me right to my next question what does collaboration look like between you, your team and the moms that you serve?

Speaker 1: 9:04

So we are just a family. I feel like it's really just. We get to know our moms, not just through a professional lens. Again, it's not a clinical space, so it's a little different and we have a full community of moms and we have never known before with very similar strategies or challenges. We show up on a daily basis for our moms. They can text us in our app each and every day with what is going on for them and be met with a warm, compassionate response and also a follow-up point.

Speaker 1: 9:39

Let's have a conversation about this. We connect moms with other service providers. So if I'm listening to a mom and she's really struggling with sleep deprivation or nutrition, I reach out to one of my partners, one of my resources in the professional space, and say hey, I have a client. Do you take this insurance or would you be willing to provide a free consultation? Not just having one partner, but having all partners in all areas that affect the whole mom. So doulas, lactation consultants, sleep consultants we bring them all in to have conversations with our moms monthly in our group calls.

Speaker 2: 10:13

That's wonderful.

Speaker 1: 10:14

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 10:14

We get lots of support from different experts.

Speaker 1: 10:16

We need it, we need it, and sometimes moms don't know what they need, so they won't say I think I need to talk to. We hear it in the conversation. So for me and my team, it's very important to listen to what's not being said and look at how mom is showing up and where she's showing those vulnerabilities. What is something that we might encourage? And we always ask our moms is it okay if I offer you a suggestion, because we all know that nobody appreciates unsolicited advice, right?

Speaker 2: 10:42

I'll say that I'll give you some unsolicited advice. Yes, yes, and we don't know what we don't know. Very true, right, very true, right, very true. Somebody else sometimes needs to say, like you might be, yeah.

Speaker 1: 10:52

Then it makes sense it's received differently hearing it from a coach rather than your partner.

Speaker 2: 10:56

Agreed, so confirming you've earned your PhD and PMHC certification. Correct, Correct. How does your academic training and lived experience come together in the work that you do?

Speaker 1: 11:06

I think, in a beautiful dance. My degree is in advanced studies in human behavior, so I understand the human body, I understand the human brain and the processes that we have to go through in order to make change and evolve. And I think, taking that and applying it to my personal situation and knowing that it wasn't a one-size-fits-all Humans are different. We're all created differently. All of our babies are different. Every version of us throughout this journey of motherhood is different, requiring different interventions. So it's really positioned me in a place to explore creative options for what those interventions look like. It doesn't have to be therapy, it doesn't have to be physical health, it can be a combination of things. It can be something we haven't even thought about yet. And I love to really get in that creative mindset and think about the gaps. What are the gaps in perinatal mental health and how can we at the Whole Mom position ourself to fill those gaps?

Speaker 2: 12:04

So you offer coaching, on-demand courses and then a virtual moms community? Yeah, Correct. How do these services all complement each other to support moms in every stage of their transition? That's a good question.

Speaker 1: 12:16

So we have it tiered where moms can enter however they want. They can enter into one-on-one coaching if they're in that position where they can make that financial investment or they have the insight to say this is really something that I need. Right now we provide free consultations to all moms and I have a postpartum stages assessment. Moms can take that quiz and it will tell them, excuse me, what stage of postpartum they're in and what the appropriate interventions are for each of those stages. So sometimes in that survival mode, excuse me the one-on-one coaching is very important for them. Sometimes, when they're in that revival and kind of that reawakening phase, it's more of the group coaching where they can draw energy and support and resources from other women in these courses with them.

Speaker 1: 13:02

And then some that are just kind of in that later transitional period, maybe have gotten into the thriving space or are navigating now postpartum and perimenopause and they're just looking for sisterhood. That's really where that community aspect comes in. But there are always options to add on. So if a mom comes in and she's doing the community work and she's like I really need something more individualized, we create add-ons for her. Every mom that comes through one-on-one coaching gets filtered down for three months into those communities. Whether they choose to participate or not, it's always there for them and they have a direct link to me or one of the coaches for any future challenges. We see a lot of moms. They get really well, they go off, they get pregnant again and then they're coming back and with different challenges right or now, a new level of insight and empowerment, and they're ready to take control very differently.

Speaker 2: 13:52

Yeah, that's beautiful. So my last question to you is what impact do you hope that the whole mom will have on how society supports mothers over the next 10 years?

Speaker 1: 14:03

A powerful one. I truly believe. What we have at the Whole Mom is a unique system set up to partner moms with a coach, and our goal is to work with medical providers, hospitals, to make perinatal coaching a necessity in a mom's life medical journey. So when moms are leaving the hospital, they're leaving the hospital already connected to a coach. They have already gotten some education about mental health during pregnancy and created a postpartum care plan so that when she finds herself in crisis or in challenging situations, she already has a plan for what she's going to do.

Speaker 1: 14:40

And I think it really starts with our healthcare providers allowing perinatal education into the hospital systems. It's not just Lamaze class, it's not just labor and delivery anymore, it is preparation and recovery from postpartum mental health challenges. And we can't begin to do that, that we treat moms and in the entire lens of perinatal mental health care, by understanding that more is absolutely necessary for our moms. And by doing that I think we're going to build that bridge to cover the gaps in clinical care. When a mom is leaving the hospital, she goes home, she has a couple doctor's appointments, she sees her provider at six weeks and then never again, unless she says she has a couple of doctor's appointments. She sees her provider at six weeks and then never again, unless she says she has a problem. We want to be that connection. We want to be that coach that picks up at eight weeks, 12 weeks, 15 weeks and walks through that first year with moms so that they have that safe support and connection.

Speaker 2: 15:39

Yeah, that's a beautiful mission.

Speaker 1: 15:41

Thank you.

Speaker 2: 15:42

Is there anything else you would like to add before we wrap everything up that I didn't touch on?

Speaker 1: 15:47

I don't think so. I'm just. I'm thankful for this space. I'm always thankful to share this message and I'm always open to collaboration and innovation with other providers. We think that I think you know it's like, unless you're in the perinatal space. No, we're looking for people that are just in the space of helping moms reduce that load, raise the awareness and get the education out there.

Speaker 2: 16:08

Need to find those overnight sleep nannies.

Speaker 1: 16:10

Yes, exactly, exactly, and provide education to the people in the field. Right, because we're not all getting trained. So, child care centers we do a lot of training for them because our moms are coming in there in their pajamas in a very vulnerable state. They don't have the option to hide there. But if we can teach people what to look for and how to start that conversation, I think we start to open that door just a little bit. Just a little bit. That's all we need to just push through fully and provide that care.

Speaker 2: 16:42

Do you have like a diagnosis chart of the bags under their eyes? If they're at this level, call us.

Speaker 1: 16:48

Well, we say, if it feels like it's hard or it's wrong, reach out, have a conversation and you don't have to figure it out. I think that's what's so difficult for moms is we're always figuring it out. How many times did the baby eat, pee, poop, sleep? Who's tracking that for us? Let a coach do that for you, let us mom you so that you can take care of everybody else. But absolutely, how much are you sleeping? How much are you eating? What is happening? And knowing that it does get better, and the sooner that you identify you need some support, the better treatment outcomes you're going to have.

Speaker 2: 17:22

We are so honored to have you on the podcast. Thank you for coming on and sharing your wealth of knowledge. I'm sure the message is going to get to the right people that really need to hear it.

Speaker 1: 17:31

I sure hope so and thank you for offering me the space to share my mission and raise more awareness in this space.