Speaker 1: 0:30

My name is Jocelyn Johnson and I'm the founder of Trillium Lotus Whole Body Wellness. I also have a small product line that I make as well. That's a topical line called Elliott James. Who are the?

Speaker 2: 0:40

type of people that you serve.

Speaker 1: 0:42

The type of folks I serve are folks that have probably gut issues, most likely have some hormonal imbalances, tend to have just those comorbidities that they deal with on a regular basis that the doctors are like oh, you need to change your diet or take the statin to change your cholesterol level or, you know, to lower it. Or maybe they have a thyroid condition that's starting to present itself, although it's probably been there for quite a while, not just you know a few months or what have you. So those are the type of folks I work with, though you know a few months or what have you. So those are the type of folks I work with, though Mainly anybody who eats food and anybody who gets some kind of digestive issues and what have you. So everybody really. I know it sounds crazy.

Speaker 2: 1:27

Talk me through to where you started, to where you are today. Give me kind of a brief overview of your journey.

Speaker 1: 1:36

Okay. So I got into the nutrition field because of a health event that I experienced back in. I believe it was 2011, but it could have been 12. I don't, I'm sorry. So I do have memory issues. I do have a traumatic brain injury, so I struggle with dates, times, other information. I mean I can pull it up if it's in my long-term memory, but this one, I guess, just kind of escapes me a little bit because it was a little traumatic.

Speaker 1: 2:05

But after that I realized that the medications that doctors were offering were not really giving me what I needed and the brain fog was there. The struggle with gaining weight because I lost like 25 pounds or something like that immediately. So just healing my body, going to yoga on a regular basis, but really not changing my diet. But I consume and this is going to sound crazy like 4,000 calories a day because I was always hungry. So I started doing the smoothies adding MCT oil, not knowing what I was doing. But as I started realizing, I started feeling a little bit better. I realized I needed to go back to school and get a degree in nutrition so that I could really understand what not only is going on in my body, but maybe I can help others. I ended up at Bastyr University in Seattle, washington, which is like crazy town, and anybody who knows that university knows that it is probably the hardest thing you'll ever do. It is a really tough university where they use evidence-based research and lots of work. It's all like quarters, not semesters. So it's a little different than the East Coast and I think I learned true grit and tenacity and a little bit of empathy for myself. But anyway, back to that journey of schooling. So after I graduated not with honors, I worked really hard, graduated how I graduated, we're not going to worry about those grades, they were undergrad grades. And then, of course, I get home. So I come back to the East Coast, to Virginia. I realized pretty quickly that I have no scope of practice. I can't do the work I want to do because I don't have the credentialing I need in order to have a CNS, which is a certified nutrition specialist certification or even a licensure. And in Virginia there is no licensure for the clinical nutritionist. It's in Maryland and DC. So I didn't have to work towards that, but I did need some kind of credentialing and able to say to folks hey, I can help you and I like the approach of both the schools that I went to.

Speaker 1: 4:16

My undergrad Bastyr and my master's degrees were at Maryland University of Integrated Health, where I studied clinical nutrition and I got a second major in herbalism. My undergrad was in nutrition, culinary arts, and it just made sense to me to understand herbs a little bit more because they could really change the trajectory of someone's life if you can get the right combination or use things that can support digestive health and what have you. So I went into it thinking I would get you know this area of concentration, kind of like a little minor, but I ended up doing a double major because I'm insane. And I went to Bastyr and that's what we do there. Everybody dual tracks, triple tracks, quad tracks. They're insane. And you know, hey, why not more? It's the grit part, right, that part, yes, but it just started coming. I don't want to say it was easy, it's just. I got it, I understood the messaging and I really resonated with the herbal portion of it, which is really interesting, because now I see clinical nutritionists that don't have a herbal background giving advice and I'm like why would you give people black cohosh? It is extinct. That is rude. Why aren't we going towards herbs like shatavari and ashwagandha, and not ashwagandha with magnesium, because that makes my brain explode. Because a gummy why no, it needs to be in a tea form or a tincture, that kind of thing. So yeah, I just being in school and getting out of school and then starting my practice was really slow.

Speaker 1: 5:57

I am a hairdresser by training. I've been a hairdresser for 25 years. I do that part time and then I do work with nutrition clients part time. It's kind of hard going because folks are all about oh, I did my research and I'm going to try this and I'm going to take this and I'm like, oh, why do you eat the crappiest food just because it says organic Marketing? Right, it's all marketing. It's stressful a little bit. But when I tell clients that they not only have to be gluten-free but they also have to not eat gluten-free food like that's labeled gluten-free, because there's a lot of gluten derivatives that are put into certain types of prepared foods or food like items is what I like to call them because they're not food like items, yeah, food like items.

Speaker 1: 6:41

They're not real food. They are, unfortunately, what our society has deemed edible, and sure they're edible, but are they really serving our whole body? So I work with clients like on an individual basis. A lot of folks think it's more coaching and it kind of is, but I'm really looking at your symptomology and trying to whittle those symptoms away. So I'm not diagnosing anyone, I just look at your symptoms and if your symptoms are pointing to maybe some gut dysbiosis, which is where you might have some GI distress, stomach issues, small intestine issues as well as large intestine issues. So that's kind of like my specialty understanding what's going on and how nutrients are being absorbed into the body, which is fascinating and odd that I love it so much because Well, it affects everything in your body too more than people realize.

Speaker 1: 7:34

I think the first place you see it is on the skin, on your face, because what folks don't understand, or what they may understand, is that the skin is the largest organ. They think it's because it covers your body and it's not true. It's because there's a thin layer of epithelial cells, which are skin cells that line your entire digestive system on the outside and in, and all of your vasculature, so that's your veins your arteries and your lymph-like system.

Speaker 2: 8:02

So that's why it's the largest organ. I had no idea I learned something today. Oh my goodness, that's a little, yeah, sorry.

Speaker 1: 8:07

A lot of information.

Speaker 2: 8:07

I apologize. No, it's perfect.

Speaker 1: 8:10

But that's why it's the largest organ and you start seeing a breakdown in the skin, first on the face and then also in the mouth, the beginning of your digestive system, coating on the tongue. Maybe you're getting dental caries, heart swallow, I don't know so many different things. Maybe you're getting acid reflux. All of those things are indications of maybe having some digestive issues where your gut biome, or your entire biome outside and in, is just not in balance. So finding that balance, I think, is really important.

Speaker 2: 8:43

So you're. It's fascinating, by the way. I have so many questions for you. Your 2011-ish health turning point led you to nutrition and herbalism. How does that experience shape the culture and client experience at Trillium and Lotus today?

Speaker 1: 8:59

That is such a good question and I think this is going to sound so weird. I believe I live and work in the woo-woo, which means that I can feel the imbalances in people and I kind of identify those and very quickly explain to them how they need to behave and how they need to change things. The quicker they change it, the more results they're going to get. And what I mean by changing? I mean by dietary changes, even water intake. Funny story I had a client yesterday who loves to gulp water and I'm like yeah, no, you cannot drink 64 ounces of water in 10 minutes and expect not to run to the ladies room and not expect your body not to absorb.

Speaker 1: 9:47

She said, oh, but I drink, you know I drink this amount. And why? Why do I have to run to? I'm like because you're going to the bathroom very quickly, because you're not allowing the body to absorb the body and allowing cells to take in the water that it needs in order to find that equilibrium between inside and outside the cells. She's like, oh, I'm like just try sipping and see what happens. And so it's been a couple of days for her and she's like, yeah, it's actually better and I didn't run to the ladies room 700 times, it's actually a little better.

Speaker 1: 10:16

So just sharing those little anecdotal like things that we should know your meal so that you don't fill up on a bunch of crap, so just also having the empathy to be able to see someone, really see someone, and allow them that space to realize that somebody sees them and is willing to help them.

Speaker 1: 10:44

I think it's really important, whether it's a woman going through menopause or someone going through digestive issues where unfortunately sometimes it can affect your brain. There's a huge gut-brain correlation and a lot of folks are like, oh yeah, your gut brain, and they're sending me articles all the time. I'm like, please, don't, please, I study, this is my life, I get it. There's this thing called the vagal nerve that actually innervates your large intestine and what all that means is that it reaches down to your actual large intestine and it kind of probably communicates a little bit with the gut bugs down there and they might be telling your brain to eat stuff you really shouldn't be eating because they want to get fed. So keeping those balances are really important between your biome as well as just your body in general, helping the hormones working and that sort of thing, and I am going off to a crazy place.

Speaker 2: 11:42

I'm in my head thinking this woman is a wealth of knowledge.

Speaker 1: 11:46

You are like a gut health encyclopedia, all within one human a gut health encyclopedia all within one human, Then you should meet a lot of my colleagues who I'll have a conversation, and I'll recall a conversation I have with a colleague. She was in a rotation with nutrition, so we were talking about vitamin D absorption and the fact that if you're deficient, then doctors give you 50,000 IUs of D and it's not really D3, it's D2, which the body kind of goes yeah, I kind of know what this is, but I can't really use it because you can't convert D2 into D3. It just doesn't work that way. So we determined that inevitably it gets absorbed in the small intestine and then it goes into the bloodstream and because the body doesn't know what to do with it, it gets stored in the adipose tissue. After that it gets stuck there because it can't come out. Once it's there, that's it. It like doesn't come out and you can't really use it anyway, because you really need D3.

Speaker 1: 12:42

D3 is like the basis of our hormones, right? Well, really, let me back up. Cholesterol is the precursor to everything, right, we need cholesterol to make vitamin D3. We need cholesterol to make all of our hormones, all of our neurotransmitters. And I show clients when they're like I don't get it, why do I need to eat fats? It's going to make me fat and I'm like, no, actually you need to build these things.

Speaker 1: 13:08

Maybe your seasonal depression is kind of coming from not being able to make these neurotransmitters or hormones for women in menopause. Doctors are so concerned about the cholesterol levels and I'm like, wait a second, maybe the body's trying to indicate that it's trying to make something. So I read a couple of articles more recently because that's been kind of my focus women who are perimenopausal, menopausal and postmenopausal, and cholesterol levels being really, really high. So it's just interesting to see the conflicting opinions. I'm of the opinion that the body's trying to make something and I'm not doing clinical testing or anything like that. It's just kind of a hypothesis that I'm going through right now. Yeah, that's interesting.

Speaker 2: 13:57

There's so many interesting things there. So, when you define whole body wellness, what makes your approach different from a typical diet program?

Speaker 1: 14:06

Oh, really simple Food first, which is a functional approach. The IFM, which is an international functional medicine organization, basically was part of my nutrition training in grad school and they are food first. So food first and, depending on your ethnicity or region of the world that you come from, I may tap into where you're from, you know, and go from there. Like I've had clients from Nigeria and Kenya and I'm trying to think Ethiopia. And I start looking at those foods and I'm like, oh wait, if you're from Ethiopia, you need to be eating like injera and stewed meats and tomatoes, stews and that kind of thing, because that's going to support your body better.

Speaker 1: 14:53

Or you know, nigerians eat more cassava and sometimes rice, but they always have some kind of fish and they've got vegetables, but they may not be able to find those vegetables here, so I look for vegetables that are similar. Or I've had a couple of Indian clients same thing. I'm like wait, why are you eating American food? This is, and a lot of the food they're eating is prepackaged and they're kind of confused, like why am I 700 pounds? I'm like maybe it's because of the food you're eating. No offense to the Americans out there in the world, I am an American.

Speaker 2: 15:28

Well, it's not even about the Americans, it's our whole industry behind what they make easily available to us.

Speaker 1: 15:35

Readily available and affordable whereas I go to the farmer's market and it's so expensive, but it's the best I know.

Speaker 2: 15:44

I spent $10 on four peaches the other day. Oh, why didn't you buy a bucket?

Speaker 1: 15:54

It was a little bucket of four peaches. No, no there's.

Speaker 2: 15:55

Which one do you go to? It was um, it was one out actually in texas, so it wasn't local so, like the brambleton, one has um, what do you call it?

Speaker 1: 16:03

they have um, like their farmer's market, a couple of vendors that have peaches and they sell them by the bucket and I will buy an entire bucket for 20 bucks, yeah, and then split them with my parents because I'm like, wait a second, I'm not going to eat all of these by myself, and it's usually like 18 peaches but they are so good they're juicy, I know fresh peaches. Yes, it's the best.

Speaker 2: 16:22

I love it. I love it. How do you blend evidence-based nutrition with herbal support in a safe and practical way?

Speaker 1: 16:30

Lots of research. First I have to look at the client what types of medications they're on and if any of the herbs that I think I might want to implement into their protocol. I do a deep dive, a really deep dive. I look at contraindications, meaning is this going to affect anything that they're already taking? If it is, then I solely look at just food intervention, taking things out of the diet that can be causing some of the symptoms, and then also trying to implement adding things that are going to be more beneficial.

Speaker 2: 17:01

Yeah, Okay. Yeah, because I could imagine that would be. It's difficult at times. Yeah, Because I know whenever I see different herbs it's like can contradict with these different medications. So I'm like oh.

Speaker 1: 17:16

So I do a deep dive first in the medications. I spend probably half an hour to an hour just deep diving and seeing what those types of medications are depleting. And then I look for the foods. First, I don't always supplement with supplementation like vitamins, minerals Sometimes I do, it just depends on the person and what their body needs to support them. Okay, you know. So I'm very, very cautious. I like to go slow, not fast. Sometimes I'm like we need to detox your body immediately and I might use something as benign as like chlorella, which is a binder. It helps to bring things, toxins, together that are floating around in the body and they kind of expel them out of the body through the liver, through our bowel movements, and then I like the sound of that.

Speaker 2: 18:01

Just gather all those suckers up and out they go.

Speaker 1: 18:04

It takes a long time though, especially if you're going to continue to eat poorly. So getting folks to really see that nutrition is everything and you know, Hippocrates says it best use thy food as thy medicine and thy medicine as thy food.

Speaker 2: 18:19

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 18:20

That's been standing the test of time, it's on my website, it's on all of my literature, because I believe in it so much. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 18:26

Yeah, that's great. You guest lectured at Harvard University. I did. A school of dentistry on healing foods. Pre-post-oral surgery what guiding principles inform recovery supportive menus?

Speaker 1: 18:40

So, first and foremost, soft tissue healing is possible. However, comma, there's a couple of nutrients that are really important, like collagen as well as vitamin C. With those two things alone, you can help with a quicker recovery from surgery. I've seen it. Now, I'm not saying taking like just a thousand milligrams of vitamin C. It's focusing on the types of foods that you're consuming. Maybe you're adding baobab powder to your smoothie. Well, that's really rich in vitamin C. Or maybe you're taking a supplement of vitamin C. I know I take about 4,000 milligrams of vitamin C a day. I know that sounds like a lot, but in the wintertime I up it a lot more, because people like to come to me sick and then say oh, it's my allergies. And then I get a text or a phone call.

Speaker 2: 19:32

Yeah, it's COVID. I have X, y and Z, yeah, good times. Or, oh, I have bronchitis. I'm so funny. Good times, not for you, though.

Speaker 1: 19:40

Yeah. So I try really hard to with those folks. What I was trying to explain to them was that helping the patient eat foods, first to support and it could be something as simple as bone broth and taking a vitamin C supplement and then also looking at other markers you know, where are their hormonal levels and certain things, where are their white blood cells, where are their blood cells, where's their iron, where's their you know protein levels. And then encouraging those folks if they cannot chew because of the fact that they've had or having oral issues, whether they need surgery or have had surgeries and are missing teeth sometimes doing something as simple as a soup where you're infusing all those good nutrients, love and intention. It helps yes, it does. And also cooking for yourself, I think is so important. And if I hear one more person say to me oh yeah, you don't have time, I don't want to hear that. Yeah, we all have.

Speaker 2: 20:43

Well, actually my last question. Sure For you, for busy parents and professionals. What's your go to 15 minute meal template that embodies your philosophy?

Speaker 1: 20:58

template that embodies your philosophy. Okay, actually that's funny, and it's not a 15-minute meal, it's pre-prep all my fruits and vegetables for the week, so I get a bag full of groceries or a box of groceries. I use the service in Perfect Foods, and so it's all raw foods, even get chicken, a whole chicken, or ground turkey or something. I prep everything at the beginning of the week, and once it's all chopped and ready to go, then I can put something together very quickly. So usually, though, I just make soups like two or three soups every two weeks, and then I just have them available in my fridge when I'm tired and I don't feel like cooking.

Speaker 1: 21:35

I mean really cooking. I don't have to, I just have to heat something up. That's amazing. So, prepping is the key.

Speaker 2: 21:42

I think that's the key, that's the template, so I don't have any other questions for you. Is there anything else you would like to add, though, before we wrap it up?

Speaker 1: 21:51

I think really honestly, just paying attention to yourself and checking in with what your body needs, and seeking out professionals that kind of come from a more functional perspective, where they're going to suggest changing diets or looking at certain foods to support certain body functions, is really important really important.

Speaker 2: 22:16

I know, when we first walked in, you said you don't do too much video content, if any at all. But my unsolicited advice is start doing a lot more video content. You are a wealth of knowledge, and we are so lucky to have you on the podcast today. So thank you so much for coming in. Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.