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ChangED
ChangED is an educator based podcast for Pennsylvania teachers to learn more about the PA STEELS Standards and science in general. It is hosted by Andrew Kuhn and Patrice Semicek.
ChangED
What If Curiosity Were The Curriculum
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Jackie Harris has lived science in places most students never see: transfusion medicine in a hospital blood bank, vaccine production at Merck, and then the fast-paced reality of a middle school classroom where your time is never really your own. That journey gives her a grounded take on what students actually need from science education: not a pile of facts, but science literacy they can use for health, public health decisions, and a future shaped by technology and AI.
We dig into STEELS and why phenomenon-based learning changes the whole feel of science class. Starting with a phenomenon like the Aurora Borealis invites students to wonder first, then build explanations, vocabulary, and models as they go. Jackie connects that approach to the real world, where teams collaborate, problems are messy, and “having the answer” matters less than knowing how to investigate, troubleshoot, and communicate. Along the way, we talk about how science can become a gateway that pulls reading, writing, math, and critical thinking into something students actually want to do.
If this conversation sparks ideas for your classroom or your district, subscribe, share it with a colleague, and leave a review so more educators can find it. What’s one phenomenon you’d use tomorrow to get kids asking better questions?
Want to send us a show idea or just say hi? Email us at: thechangedpodcast@gmail.com!
Welcome And Guest Reveal
SPEAKER_00Welcome back to Change Ed. Change Ed Change Ed. The number one, everyone's favoritist podcast in all of America. I am one of your most favorite hosts, Andrew Kuhn, education consultant from Montgomery County Intermediate Unit.
SPEAKER_02Here with me is Patrice Semacek, an educational consultant, also out of Montgomery County Intermediate Unit.
SPEAKER_04And our favorite Tony Marabito, Carbonly High Intermediate Unit, whatever you want my title to be today.
SPEAKER_00Well, on this show we have Patrice's guest who Mystery Guest. And Patrice goes, I'm not telling him. She's gone for a minute. I don't have enough time to Google her. So Patrice, would you please introduce us so I can write down our guest's last name?
SPEAKER_02Yes. This is the amazing Jackie Harris. She and I met, I don't know, a few years ago. How long have we been friends?
SPEAKER_01Two to three.
SPEAKER_02Two to three years. She is a fantastic teacher on sabbatical. Yeah. But she works for Norristown.
SPEAKER_01Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_00Hi, Jackie.
SPEAKER_01Hello. It's nice to be here. Very exciting. Before we begin, I want to clarify that I'm speaking today in a personal capacity as an educator. And the views and opinions I share are my own and do not represent the position or the views of the Norristown Area School District.
SPEAKER_02Thank you. Jackie, can you tell us who you are and what you do and how you got there?
SPEAKER_01Okay. So as you said, I am a teacher in Norristown. This is my 23rd year. I teach science. Yay. I love it. So before I was a science teacher, I always say I'm a scientist that teaches science. Oh, I like that. Yeah. She legitimately is. Yeah. So I my undergrad is in I have a bachelor's in medical technology and I worked at Jefferson Hospital.
SPEAKER_04Wow.
SPEAKER_01Jefferson University Hospital in the transfusion unit, all capacities of transfusion medicine in the blood bank, in the donor center, and in tissue typing, which is where if people need a organ, that's where we do that kind of work. So I learned all the facets of that. That's not usual, but I like stuff like that. So I was cross-trained everywhere. Then when my husband and I decided to have a family, we moved out here to Montgomery County. And I wanted to be a little closer to work and I wanted to work second shift. So I took a job in the vaccine division at Merck. And I did that for a number of years. In both of those previous capacities, I always did some sort of training and education. And then when we were having a family, I thought, you know, I maybe I should go back and be a science teacher because then I could be on their my children's schedule and it would work better for our family. So that's what I did. I went back to Ursinus to get my teaching certification. And prior to that at Jeff, I do have a master's degree in immunology and microbiology. But I I just never can get enough education. I'm back in school again. I'll just say that. Literally in school again. But that's I got my certification at Ursinas while I was working second shift at Merck. Did I was for my 14 weeks of student teaching, I was student teaching during the day in methactin and then going to work. And I had a three-year-old and a five-year-old. So it was a lot of people. But here I am, 23 years later, I teach, I'm secondary at science seven through twelve, biology. I'm definitely a life scientist at heart, but being now in the middle school, I'm learning a lot about art science and yeah, different sciences. So it's just more and more. I love it.
SPEAKER_04So Jefferson to Merck to middle school.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. That's via high school.
SPEAKER_04Via high school.
SPEAKER_01Via high school, yeah. Local.
SPEAKER_04Pit stop in high school.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
Industry Versus Classroom Realities
SPEAKER_01Little pit stop.
SPEAKER_04So tell us the differences between being in a hospital, being in a professional setting, and then going to work with young kids. That's a good question.
SPEAKER_01It is a very good question. Other than when a trauma comes in, you can manage your schedule very differently when you're in a hospital, when you're in a vaccine division versus when you're in a school. Your time is not your own. It's very, you know, you're on. When you come to school, you're on. No bathroom breaks. No, really, no, really not. And being close to, you know, AARP is messaging me now. So bladder issues of the senior. It's very, it's definitely trying. So that's very different. Like I said, other than a trauma, you can be on for eight hours straight. But I think that that's the biggest difference. And you wear many hats. Your job description is way more defined in a hospital, even in the vaccine division. You wear so many different hats in a public school situation. Yeah. Yeah. So I think those are the major differences.
SPEAKER_04I'm a huge is my own soapbox, but huge proponent of teachers working in a different field first. I was in business first, and then I came to education, and it gives you a whole new perspective.
SPEAKER_01Very yeah.
SPEAKER_04So I love your background.
Science As Public Health Literacy
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I I so agree with that. The other thing too is I feel like you're very resourceful. I came in as, you know, not fresh out of college. I was a resourceful person. And there was things that are like the training that you get, but then there's these soft skills that you kind of already had when you're somewhere else. It definitely gives you perspective. Without a doubt. Yeah. I was thinking about when I was going to come into this podcast. I see science as a public health issue. There's all aspects of public health that I feel science, you know, initially when I was teaching high school, I thought I want to sort of demystify science, but I want people to understand how science is related to their lives. Yeah. Your health, nutrition, your physical wellness. There's a lot of talk about vaccines right now, understanding things. I can always connect everything to science. I think science is such an important subject for kids to be prepared for just life. But now we're going into AI and just this very fast-paced future. There's these junctures of science into interesting fields too. So I think there's so much you can do with a a little bit of science from physical science all the way to life science. It's it's endless.
SPEAKER_02And you can pretty much teach every subject through science. Oh, absolutely. Reading in science, you're doing math in science, you're critically thinking, like you have to understand the history behind what's coming for the science, for the social studies piece. And yeah, even like geography comes into play sometimes with like even just like diseases and things, like figuring out. So I I agree with you. Yeah, science could be the base for literally everything.
SPEAKER_01I just recently said to somebody, you know, math and ELA are very, very big tested subjects, and obviously children need to read, and math is very important. But I just recently said my thought is I don't think reading is the gateway to science, but I absolutely think that science is the gateway to reading reading and math because those are tools you need to use, you're using those skills to do something cool in science.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00You know, this makes me think of when my children were younger, they would watch Thomas the Tank Engine. And they had this image where there was a a train yard, but they also had a a rotating track track. Oh, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01I know.
STEELS And Phenomenon First Learning
SPEAKER_00That's what I'm thinking of now for science, right? Like you can pull the pull the train out and then you can go on any track. Uh-huh. Sometimes you can get onto multiple tracks through this work you're doing. Yes. I'm curious to hear from you. Uh what are your thoughts when it comes to steels? I'm curious about what you see for steels because you've had this uh worldly experience when it comes to science. Is there a difference between how education had been going or the direction we were going and steals, and then maybe some benefits that you see or even some drawbacks or concerns that we might have?
SPEAKER_01Well, you know, because of my age, I certainly was trained very much, you need to know your content. But always in science, you always had a lab. So there was always an experiential piece of it. And I think that I had to be a little bit of a convert because I know how I was educated and how I'm used to educating. And the thing that I and my husband's a scientist as well. So we talk about this a lot. And we both did so much better when we were in labs, when we had our lab experience as opposed to the theory never connected with us until we had the lab experience. So now we're just kind of flipping things where the great thing about steels, again, you have the approach of let's have an experience. The other thing is I think we're really trying to get the kids to think and wonder and ask why. So we're starting with a phenomenon. And if they're not thinking, oh, how does that happen? You can pose a question like, did you ever think about why this happened? I'm doing a PowerPoint and I just put a picture of the Aurora Borealis. Yeah. And I was like, just like, like, why all those colors? There's your phenomenon. And kids can just start the conversation. What are you thinking?
SPEAKER_04I think that this is a better approach. You've been bringing in phenomenon your whole career because you've had already had that experience, right? So you can easily do that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_04No, I love that. I think that's awesome.
SPEAKER_00Now, when you were at Merck, what was the most important? Was it most important that someone had the answer? Because that's how we were teaching kids. You had to have the answer, or was it more of this other approach where it's like, okay, let's let's look at the problem, let's break it apart. What do we have to do? How do we fix it? So again, I guess what I'm trying to get at is it is one of the things that we've been saying is steel is is more of a real life approach to learning and living science. Is that the case from your experience?
SPEAKER_01I think I probably had that more in the hospital setting than I did in the at MARC because in the vaccine production, I wasn't in the research component production. So production is mapped out already. You may or may not have troubleshooting when you know you have a fermenter or something like that that goes down. Like why did that happen? But it's pretty scripted, except for when the research meets the production. Something is called a scale up. So if you've ever heard of the Gardasil vaccine, initially we that was just a laboratory thing. So how do we take it from it's working in the lab, and now we have to make tremendous doses, amount of doses, scale it up? How do we do that? So that's where you know, the reality of like, what is the reality of this situation? What are we gonna do? What's this gonna look like? We're thinking more, we're using this small fermenter up to this big fermenter. What is what is that? Like how does it change the chemistry?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, like that's interesting. Yeah, yeah. I never even thought of that. I just assumed like in the lab, if it works this way, then you just double or triple or quadruple the formula.
SPEAKER_01And it works, but it might not be the same, it might not be that way. And you're also working at that point, you're working with other teams.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So it's that other, you know, we had electrical engineers who came in. We had a lot of different teams that collaborate as you want. Yeah. You know, you're because we all have our maybe fields of science, but that's where it really comes to working in the real world that you need to talk with other teams to make this actually happen.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I I wanted to save this for the final thought. It's something you said, but it was so good, but I can't. I just have to I have to use it now. Is there's a significant difference when it comes to steels, and the difference is that we are treating science as a gateway to learning. And that is a tremendous difference in the way that we approach it and the way that we go into it. And before, when we were using it one-dimensionally, I think where there are a lot more scientifically oriented students who were turned off because they're like, that's not how I want to do it. So actually, with what you were describing, with the tail end of that production for Merck, that to me reminded me more of like how science has been taught, right? Like it's kind of very analytical, it's very step-by-step. We're following the formula. There's a recipe, there's no question. I would think for the majority of students, certainly when I was in school, that's what I thought science was. And I'm like, I'm good. That and that guy in a lab coat. Right. Yeah, yeah. I'm good. Right.
SPEAKER_04However, I wanted to be Bill Nye, but I got the guy in the lab coat that didn't move.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_04That tracks for me.
SPEAKER_00So however, his fault. With steels, by using it as a gateway, now, now, and even what I'm hearing from you is that there are different levels. And this is only one of the levels. So if you're a student who is more inclined to say, yep, that's my that's my jam. I want, I want the analytics, I want to make sure quality control is me, there's a spot for you. But if you're someone who's like, no, no, no, I want to problem solve, there's also a spot for you. Yeah. So this is very encouraging and validating to say, yeah, there's a spot for everyone here. It's it, whatever your skill set or whatever interest is, there's a spot for you somewhere out there. There are so many jobs, so many possibilities. You even brought in the future and how the future is now, and all these things are growing and changing. So I've heard nothing but validation from your career and your experience that has said this is the way to move because we don't we don't know what's going to happen. We don't know what's next.
SPEAKER_02So my question then is how does that translate into the classroom? So how you were taught a certain way in high school, you probably taught the same way you were with a little bit of because of your background. So how does that shift happen in your classroom? How has that how has that happened for you?
SPEAKER_01Well, and I do have to give credit to these, there's great science curriculum platforms out there. And I think that we're currently using Amplify and they kind of design it that way that you're starting with a phenomenon. You're starting with a demonstration or asking questions or getting them to have an experience and then talk about the experience and get all their different views, and then kind of pose a couple, whether you wanted to call them research questions, we call them, you know, overarching questions or just some questions that are gonna guide you through the learning. And I don't know that I would have thought of that starting that way on my own. I very much before Steele's, I am a hands-on person, so I always had centers and you know, but I have to say that I probably kind of gave vocabulary before, but there was always a vocabulary in a picture. Yeah. So there's always something like that that it was the they could see. And the other thing that I think that the science platforms and steels are suggesting, you're not getting all the vocabulary. Do a couple words, you know, do have your experience. You just give it as it as it comes along.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
Labs Pacing Tests And Real PD
SPEAKER_04You know, you mentioned before you thrived once you started doing labs. Oh, yeah. Right. I feel like it's just watching a YouTube video trying to change your oil until you actually change the oil. You don't understand it. So that being said, in your position now, how do you balance? Obviously, I could, if I could do labs every single day, I would love it. The kids would love it. But how do you balance that? And I still have to cover all this content because it's on a state test that we're Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Well, you know, in that that is very tricky, I think, for science because I'm even old enough to know when science teachers got an extra prep for all the serious things. We got extra time because lab labs can be a lot to set up and break down. Yes. So currently, you know, I think that right now we're in we're trying to pace out, amplify. And I think giving teachers the room to, they've got to experiment themselves and see. So your first year in an anything, you know, a first year teacher, new curriculum. A first year is always you're in an experimental phase and you're figuring out what's working. I'm a big believer that things can be dovetailed. And until I see it all and I touch it all and I do it, I'm better able to say, yes, oh, while I'm doing this, I can do this. And it's a little bit of a time saver. But in the first year, that expectation is difficult for you. It's very difficult. But yeah, I definitely think that you can do it. And you can also set up a couple of different stations. If you have multiple labs that you want to get done, okay, get them all, get them all up. Yeah. Let the kids rotate through stuff. And then, you know, what did you think? And then what so there are, I do think there's different ways that you can go about figuring all that out. Isn't she great?
SPEAKER_04That seems like it would be more value. Instead of going to PD where you're not getting too much out of it, but giving teachers time to be able to experiment with. Whose PD are they going to? Not ours.
SPEAKER_02Andrews, they're going to Andrews.
SPEAKER_04I've heard some things about him. But um but that'd be great if you just get teachers in a room, similar grade levels. But that is in itself, PD.
SPEAKER_02If we're being real, that in itself is just thinking active participation in doing something that is professional development. Sometimes I think we get stuck in this someone has to stand in front of the room for three hours or six hours or whatever and talk at you.
SPEAKER_04Maybe a half hour or an hour in theory, but then I want to be hands-on. Yes.
SPEAKER_02I am a big believer in learn something, do something. I'm going to talk to you for maybe 15, 20 minutes, and then we're going to do something.
SPEAKER_04Well, and I think that's why these CTE schools are so successful because kids get in there and you are hands-on. We could just do everything. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I swear.
SPEAKER_04I agree.
SPEAKER_02They get a bad rap, but that's just hands-on learning. It's awesome.
SPEAKER_00I wanna I want to back this strain up for a second.
SPEAKER_02What?
SPEAKER_00And say we've smirched his uh special development.
SPEAKER_02Nobody, it's not news to anyone.
SPEAKER_00Now in college, in college, they have rate my professor. Is there like a rate my IU facilitator? It's asynchronous.
SPEAKER_02It's asynchronous. They don't actually have to deal with you.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02If you're about to tell them that you have an A plus on Rate My Professor, it's because they don't deal with you. Moving up.
Learning Curve Versus Productive Struggle
SPEAKER_00Back to Jackie's. Jackie, something else you just said that that that resonated with me that I want to maybe dive into a little bit more or at least point out is that I think there's a significant difference between a learning curve and a productive struggle. Right. When we're in elementary school, productive struggle is a big part of that learning curve. How do we work through that? If we hit a challenge, what do we do? What does it look like? But really, as educators, we almost have, in a lot of ways, in theory, perfected the productive struggle, and now we're really focused on that learning curve. I think the challenge comes in, like specifically with steels, the turnaround was fast, right? Like you still need to teach and you need to figure out this new thing and then incorporate it and make the transition. That's where it's really hard. But I think a lot of times we can confuse productive struggle with the learning curve. Yeah, even as adults, right? Where we're like, oh, I just haven't spent enough time on this. It's like, well, you actually have been educating for a while. Like you know what you're doing. Trust yourself, lean into your strengths and what you've learned along the way. But how do we adapt and how do we kind of shift course and change from it necessarily, you know, I think one of the big things is that before it was about the destination. And now with steels, it's definitely about the journey. There is a destination. We're trying to get you somewhere, but there's learning that can happen along the way.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. I'm finding that more just a I I totally agree with you. And this is, I think, what the state wants, what the scientific community wants that you have to, you know, you might be uncomfortable a little bit in that struggle, but getting yourself through that is such a huge you learn so much, you're creating stamina, you're practicing questioning, you're practicing figuring something out. Now you know that you can do that practice given a different circumstance. Yes. And I think Steels gives the opportunity. I guess it's given the opportunity for the, you know, the teachers too. I wasn't thinking that until it was like, oh yeah, we're we're kind of doing the same thing. And I've heard before you say on this podcast that it's not gonna be every single solitary unit is gonna be like this. You're making this change, almost like accelerate that you're starting out five miles, ten miles, whatever. You're gonna get there, but you just have to give yourself opportunity. And even in different lessons, you might say, oh, this lesson, I can teach this kind of like this down here. You know, I can use that same methodology for this later lesson or something. I think it's much better. I'm excited for it, quite frankly. And I was a little resistant. I was so there were lots of questions.
SPEAKER_04I'm waiting for that first textbook company to come out with let's base all of our ELA and all of our math within this science curriculum so we're not so siloed, especially at the I can only speak from my elementary level because I taught fourth and fifth grade with a principal at the really lower, K to three. And if we could just have something where it all tied together, then teachers wouldn't feel like I have to get to this, I have to do this, but now I have to transition to math.
SPEAKER_02But our schedules, that's the hard part too, is like the system is not set up to be successful in that way. Right?
SPEAKER_04Our schedules are look at the most successful schools. We don't even in Denmark, you know, they're taking a two-hour break in the middle of the day, they're starting or they're starting like it's not.
SPEAKER_02I mean, there's also there's other there's other factors there. They don't they don't educate everybody like we do, like classrooms arranged. But our system isn't set up for that kind of thinking or that kind of teaching either. Like if you think about it, Jackie has a block of time where she's teaching science, and yeah, she could be touching on some ELA concepts or some math stuff, but her schedule itself is set up in a way. And but in the elementary school, there's a lot more flexibility and freedom if we gave it. I remember, and I don't know if you were this kind of principal, Tony, where like my principal was like, here's your math block, here's your ELA block, here's your science and social studies if you get to it. But they're failing the PSSAs in math. Right. They're failing the PSSAs in reading. So if you need to extend your reading time to it felt like seven hours. Do seven hours of reading and science will happen if it happens.
SPEAKER_01Right. And you know, I I just wanted to say I look again, I talk about that dovetail. I've always said we have opportunities in K to five or whatever. You know, we teach health class, health, nutrition, and the things that are gonna go are gonna be on the biology keystone, like biomolecules. You can start showing kids these things. We if we had a little bit more vertical conversation and then that collaboration in or cross-curricular, whatever you want to say, we're teaching many of these scientific topics in other disciplines and we're covering it and we can partner and collaborate that way too. And I wish the teams, you know, like I don't know if science chairs or you know, things like that week or people like that.
SPEAKER_02We're those conversations would lead to using the same vernacular.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_02Because they probably are talking about it, but they're not using the same terms. Right. And so when you get them in the middle school, they might have talked about it, but they look at you like they've never heard it before because the teacher used a different term. Right. Yeah. Sometimes we think kids can't handle that. Yeah. The vertical planning is massive, and we just don't know.
SPEAKER_04Someone just said this recently. We think some of these younger students can't handle it, yet five-year-olds can tell you what every dinosaur ever was. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02And they're pronouncing appropriate names.
SPEAKER_01Correct.
SPEAKER_04So we can expose them to some science stuff as well.
SPEAKER_01I think don't they say that's when kids learn language? I mean they're teaching multiple languages. I think biology, you know, I think in a sense it's a it's another language. Yeah. But they can easily they can do it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And they want to. That's the crazy part. We we school them out of asking questions. And now with Steels, we're trying to get them to ask questions again. So if we just let them be curious from the beginning, right? There's that study that I talk about all the time that Ken Robinson reports on on his TED Talks where kids in a kindergarten ask like a hundred questions a day, and a high schooler asks one question a month if we're lucky. So what have we done to squash the curiosity? We've schooled them out of curiosity because we put so much onus on the answer.
SPEAKER_01And sometimes kids, you know, will say, is this they doubt their questions.
SPEAKER_02But if that's a question you have, they're like, oh, this is like I have a stupid question.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, but no questions that are still.
SPEAKER_04Because they are in groups. They're they're less likely to be afraid to ask a question because they're surrounded by the as opposed to I'm raising my hand and you're left. In front of everybody.
Collaboration Partnerships And Closing
SPEAKER_01Right. Right. And I think a crafty teacher, what I really do try to do is no matter what, because you do will get those left-wing questions or those, you know, you go, hmm that is not even close. So sometimes I just say something like, Tell me a little bit more, and then I say, Oh, I see that connection. You're making it. Yeah, that I never even thought of that. How? Even if you don't think, you know, that's what you do. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Jackie, you have had an amazing career. I know it's not over yet.
SPEAKER_02She's in school again, but I know.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you're still learning. Which says so much about you and your character and who you are as a person and as an educator. And you can tell that you're not done, that you've got a lot, that you're just enjoying what you're doing, which is something that we all need. And whatever we're doing, right? Whatever you're doing, make it something you enjoy. We got one shot at this thing called life, so let's make sure we enjoy it. I'm gonna ask you for your second to last final thought. If it were my show, I would let you have the final thought. But these two want me to always have the final thought. I don't know why.
SPEAKER_01No, it is your show. So just to get us back anytime.
SPEAKER_00We're gonna cut that. So Jackie, here's the question. Is I'd love for you to be able to give a final thought on, you know, kind of what we talked about today, andor like any nuggets that you've seen or you've taken away, or you're like, man, if I was on the most popular podcast in the whole world, what would I say to other educators? You're not on that show, but if you were, what would you say? I'm just getting close to that show. Hmm.
SPEAKER_01I really like when educators collaborate with one another. I've also been part of a couple of gramps where we did cross-curricular activities. And I just think that you can't parse out, as you were kind of alluding to before, you know, science and history. We can't, these things are not siloed. They all occur all at the same time, they all affect us in, you know, the the future that we're going. So more collaboration is definitely key. Look for those opportunities. I also think that one I feel like the science community, if you want a good feeder program for your careers, get yourself into the schools, partner with some schools, have make that opportunity, whether it's the educators, you know, trying to get out there and make partnerships, or you're coming from your school, lab, business, wherever, come in and and partner because I think that would be invaluable. There's only so many resources a school district, especially a public school district, has. And we need your help to give our kids those experiences and see themselves in in a great, interesting career.
SPEAKER_02And there's so many jobs that we as educators don't know about that are out there that would create 100. Maybe even a lifelong passion for some of these kids. Like that's the part that I think we need to really yeah. Very good point, Jackie. We really need to leverage that.
SPEAKER_00All right. Well, I guess I'll since you guys, you know, always want me to do this, I'll give my five. Oh, begging. Yeah, hold your breath. Ready? Here we go.
SPEAKER_02Uh I would die. Because it takes you so long to figure out.
SPEAKER_00So, Jackie, thank you. Thank you for coming on the show. This is definitely a very fun episode and a fun treat to have you here.
SPEAKER_02My guest is the best. Yay!
SPEAKER_00My guest is the best.
SPEAKER_02That's my yeah.
SPEAKER_00Title of the episode. Yeah. So thank you so much. Make sure that listener, you like, subscribe, follow, share, tell all of your friends. This is a great way to collaborate, is to share this episode and then have a conversation about how great Jackie is and who your favorite host is. Which is not really up for debate, but we can pretend like that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's been decided multiple times.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Okay, all right. That's that felt a little too rehearsed.
SPEAKER_02It's me and then Tony. And then you. Even with the larger stickers.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, but the way you pause made seem like there was like multiple dis like there are there are a few times. As if I'm like tied for fifth, right? Like I wasn't even third.
SPEAKER_02You come after every guest.
SPEAKER_00Trace, me, guest, you. Yeah. So that works. Well, at this point, I'm tied for you know three hundred and forty-two.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Great. All right. Well, thanks. Jackie. That was awesome.
SPEAKER_01Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much.