Humanism Now | Secular Ethics, Curiosity and Compassionate Change

44. Lizzi Collinge MP on Applying Humanist Values in British Politics

• Humanise Live | Hosted by James Hodgson • Season 1 • Episode 44

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“I believe in autonomy, I believe in choice, I believe in human freedom, and I believe in having less suffering… all of which are fundamentally humanist values.” –  Lizzi Collinge MP

Lizzi Collinge—Labour MP for Morecambe & Lunesdale and Chair of the All-Party Parliamentary Humanist Group—shares how openly declaring “I am a humanist” now shapes her work on championing freedom, autonomy and human rights through cross-party collaboration at Westminster.

Lizzi Collinge MP

Topics we cover

 ✔︎ Owning a humanist identity in Parliament
 ✔︎ Lizzi’s life experiences, values & advice for future politicians
 ✔︎ Putting values into action: autonomy, freedom, less suffering
 ✔︎ Why transparency about values builds better policy
 ✔︎ Assisted Dying Bill process & progress
 ✔︎ APPGs as engines for cross-party problem-solving
 ✔︎ Confronting illegal schools and protecting children’s education
 ✔︎ Standing up for persecuted people worldwide

References

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Music: Blossom by Light Prism

James Hodgson:

The July 2024 UK general election produced the most openly non-religious Commons in history, with 40% of MPs choosing the secular affirmation rather than swearing a religious oath. Among them was Lizzi Collinge. Lizzi entered the House of Commons after a career in catering, public health and project management and also spent nine years as a county councillor in Lancashire. Elected as the Labour MP for Morecambe and Lunesdale in 2024, she now chairs the All-Party Parliamentary Humanist Group, or the APPHG, one of Westminster's largest cross-party caucuses, with around 120 MPs and peers. Elected as the Labour MP for Morecambe and Lunesdale in 2024, Lizzi now chairs the All-Party Parliamentary Humanist Group, or APPHG, one of Westminster's largest cross-party caucuses, with around 120 MPs and peers. Elected as the Labour MP for Morecambe and Lunesdale in 2024, Lizzi now chairs the All-Party Parliamentary Humanist Group, one of Westminster's largest cross-party caucuses, with around 120 MPs and peers.

James Hodgson:

Colling's maiden speech declaration I am a humanist and her keynote appearance at the Humanist UK Convention in 2025, underlined the growing space for the humanist voices in politics. Colling's maiden speech declaring I am a humanist and her keynote appearance at the Humanist UK Convention in 2025, underlined the growing space for humanist voices in politics as Parliament begins to mirror the UK's increasingly non-religious population. I am delighted that Lizzi Collinge joins us today to share the values, vision and determination that drive her to create positive change in the British political system. Lizzi Collinge, thank you so much for joining us on Humanism Now. It's my absolute pleasure. So we first met at the humanist uk convention where you gave a fantastic keynote I guess a combination of speech and also taking all the audience questions as well and you were very clear in sort of recognizing your humanist values, and I know you've brought that forth in your political career as well. So maybe to set the scene, what first made you realize that you identified with being a humanist?

Lizzi Collinge MP :

It's funny you should ask that actually because I don't know whether there was one light bulb moment, but I do think there was a growing realization that the set of beliefs that I have a name, and that was partly through exposure to other humanists and partly through just thinking a bit more clearly about what my own belief structures are. And you know, I remember gosh. Nearly 20 years ago now, I lived in Spain and I was in this garden that I was working in with an Australian woman and she was going oh, what's the point If there's no afterlife? What's the point? And I was like we're in the mountains in Spain. There are vultures soaring up above, there is this beautiful nature all around. We are engaged in purposeful work that will help the land. Hey, what more do you want? So I've had these beliefs, but at that point I wouldn't have called it humanism. I wouldn't have called it that. And I've always believed that humans are valuable. And I don't ever remember believing in God. My mum shows me I did believe in Father Christmas, but I don't ever remember believing in God. It always just seemed so unlikely. But again, that was more of.

Lizzi Collinge MP :

In my first speech in parliament I said I'm a humanist and the reason I did that, I think, was because in your first speech in parliament, you talk about the constituency, you talk about your predecessors. There's actually a bit of a format to it, almost, but I thought it was really important to show what underlying structures I'm working to, what are the overarching beliefs that drive me. And I thought it's my humanism. That's what it is. It's that belief in reason, evidence, logic, it's that belief that humans are valuable and it's belief in the dignity and equality of everyone, and that really does underlie everything that I do. So I thought it was important to lay it out. And then, ever since, I've had humanists coming at me from all directions.

James Hodgson:

I don't know what you possibly could be talking about, but yes, I mean, it was very powerful to hear that and you mentioned it again. I think we showed it at the convention as well to stand up in parliament and make that declaration. I am a humanist and I was very curious what the reception or reaction was like, both from your fellow MPs whether there was some curiosity questions or others that were wanting to learn more and also for your constituents. We're respecting that. Not everybody is a humanist. I'm sure you have many constituents of faith. Have they had questions that they've raised with you? I think the biggest question is what's a humanist? I'm sure you have many constituents of faith. Have they had questions that they've raised with you?

Lizzi Collinge MP :

I think the biggest question is what's a humanist? I think that's probably been the primary question. I think the great thing about first speeches in Parliament is that everyone's very polite, although it was interesting if you watch the speech. There was a person behind me kind of making faces not bad faces but curious faces at what I'm saying. And I think what was nice is that afterwards I had colleagues come up to me and say I'm a humanist too. You know, it was really nice to hear someone say that, and it's been interesting how that has actually guided more of my work in Parliament than I was expecting it to you. You know, I expected it to be a framework to show my constituents what sort of person I am and what drives me, and actually that was the start of a journey of actually becoming more involved in humanism, championing humanist causes in parliament and becoming part of the kind of national infrastructure of humanism I suppose you'd call it, and I wasn't expecting that at all, I really wasn't.

James Hodgson:

Yeah, and would you say that your humanist values were influential in joining a political party and deciding to run for office? Or was it more? Being more involved in politics, as you say, enhanced your identification with humanism, or do they play off each other?

Lizzi Collinge MP :

I think they play off each other. I think it's a little bit of both. So I think back when I joined the Labour Party in 2014,. I might not have said I'm a humanist. I still had those values and I think a lot of the values overlap between the Labour Party and between humanism there is not a lot of overlap of values and when I joined the Labour Party, I joined the Labour Party and between humanism, there is not a lot of overlap of values.

Lizzi Collinge MP :

And when I joined the Labour Party, I joined the Labour Party because I felt that their values most aligned with mine. I was already political, with a small p. I was already interested. I was not happy with what was happening in the country and I thought I've got to do something. It's not enough to sit back and complain about it.

Lizzi Collinge MP :

And the Labour Party really felt like the right place for me to go. And I think one of the reasons it felt like the right place for me to go was because I felt that the Labour Party was the place where I could express those values, where I could enact the equality of human beings, where I could find a vehicle for evidence-based policy, a vehicle for improving the lot of human beings, and that was important to me. There is something as well in humanism about finding my people. When I joined the Labour Party, I felt like I'd found my people, and then, as I got more involved with humanism and with various humanist organizations, I felt again that I'd found my people where you know, there's a Spanish phrase that I can't really think of the English translation for, that's hacer buenas migas, which literally means make good crumbs, but it sort of means you go together, and that's what I found in both the Labour pie with fellow humanists, that there was a fellowship there and a shared understanding of the world, even when we disagree.

James Hodgson:

Yeah, fellowship is such a wonderful word for it actually. Yes, there is that shared safety and understanding and respect that you get in those groups, and I certainly hear that in all areas as you say, those who are just involved in socially or those, as you say, who are involved in the infrastructure of humanism. It's just good people to be around. So do you think that politicians should be open about their beliefs and, in particular, when it comes to how it might inform their views on policy?

Lizzi Collinge MP :

I think if it's something that is informing your views on policies, I think it is better to be transparent. I think it's important to say when it is a values-based judgment, as quite a lot of politics is to say, the reason I'm making this decision is informed by X Y Z. I really think that's important for transparency. I've done a lot of work on the assisted dying campaign and the passage of that legislation which is currently going through parliament, and that was very much informed by my humanist belief, very much informed by that and my experience of life, and I brought those both to the fore. I believe in autonomy, I believe in choice and I believe in human freedom and I believe in having less suffering, all of which I think are fundamentally humanist values as well as being labor values. And I do think that it's important that if you are taking values-driven decisions and you have strong convictions and those are informing those decisions, I think it's right that you're open about your belief structure, because then that can be interrogated and I think it is different.

Lizzi Collinge MP :

A humanist belief structure is different to a religious belief structure. I think, whilst both the belief structures, they feel slightly different, but I think it's equally important to be clear about what drives you, because actually it informs such a lot of your political decision making. So, for example, there are mps in the house who fundamentally don't believe in or in bodily autonomy. They just don't believe in it. I do, and I think if that's a really core, underlying belief, then that's going to influence how you vote on assisted dying, how you vote on abortion, how you vote on lots and lots of different things, how you understand medical ethics, and so if that is a core tenet of your belief system, I think you do need to be open about it.

James Hodgson:

Yeah, the debates that accompanied the assisted dying bill were a very fantastic example of that, weren't they? In terms of given that it was a vote of conscience, is that the correct phrase?

Lizzi Collinge MP :

Yeah, yeah.

James Hodgson:

Unwhipped, and so members could talk about not only which way they were going to vote but why they were and the beliefs and experiences and personal views of all kinds that were driving that, and I think that made it a much more powerful debate and vote. Given that you mentioned the assisted dying bill. Obviously we're talking at a time where that has now gone through the third vote in Parliament. Where are we at with the bill now and what is the realistic progress you think we'll see in this Parliament?

Lizzi Collinge MP :

I would hope by the end of this Parliament it would be implemented. It does still have to go through the Lords, so the Lords will scrutinise the bill as amended that's come from the Commons. They will very likely make amendments as they see fit. Then it will come back to the Commons. Now I'm very hopeful that the Lords will respect the will of Parliament and actually not tamper with it too much, and certainly I would hope that they wouldn't try and vote it down because the will of Parliament has been made clear.

Lizzi Collinge MP :

It's a very passionate debate in the Lords as well as in the Commons, but fundamentally the Commons were elected to make decisions and the Lords are there in their best capacity and I think the Lords actually, a lot of the time, do a very good job of this. They're very good at looking at how will it work in practice. Does this do what it's intended to do? Have all the issues being thought through? And the assisted dying bill is one of the most scrutinized piece of legislation, much more heavily scrutinized than any government bill in, I think, living memory is that partly because it was a private member's bill or just because of the sensitive nature of the subject?

Lizzi Collinge MP :

I think it was the fact that it was a subject matter and the fact that the bill's sponsor made sure that everyone could take part in this. For example, the bill committee, which is where you go through line by line scrutiny of legislation and amendments are proposed. The bill committee was over 90 hours. Now, that's not normal. That's far more than any government bill would get, and that is partly because the Commons, authorities and others, but primarily the bill's sponsor, kim Leadbeater, knew that it needed to have all that time, all that scrutiny, to make sure that it was the right legislation, that it was drafted correctly, that people's reasonable objections were being listened to and dealt with. And there's been criticisms of it coming through as a private member's bill.

Lizzi Collinge MP :

But actually in our system, if it's not a private member's bill, it's a government bill, and I don't think it would be right for it to be a government bill. The government should not have a view on matters of conscience like assisted dying. But what the government has said is that if it's the will of the houses of parliament that this passed, they will make sure that it's enacted properly. And actually what the government did do was work with the bill sponsor, kim ledbeater, to make sure that the legislation work as intended, make sure that amendments were drafted correctly. And make sure that amendments were drafted correctly and make sure that as a whole it worked. It sort of got the best of both worlds it had the freedom of a private member's bill, but with the civil service support of a government bill.

Lizzi Collinge MP :

Yeah, it sounds like an example of a system working well to allow everybody, that voice, to contribute, but then use the infrastructure to make sure that everything is done correctly and in the right process to make change there's lots of criticisms of the way westminster legislative processes work and I think a lot of them are very valid, but certainly within the system we've got, it was a fantastic example both of just the legislative process and the scrutiny bills undergo, but also the debate and the ideas that were discussed and because it wasn't a whipped vote, because it was a matter of conscience that those debates were played out publicly.

Lizzi Collinge MP :

Now, quite often those debates do happen, but you know, within parties a lot of debates happen privately. But to see those really fundamental issues of life, of death, of being a human, debated for the most part extremely respectfully and in great depth was, I think, a fantastic example of our parliamentary democracy.

James Hodgson:

Would you hope to see more of those style of debates and votes gone forward?

Lizzi Collinge MP :

Yes, I think I would, and I think Parliament's most interesting, I think, when we are debating in that way and I think sometimes that's not what happens because people are marching along party lines, which is a good thing, like I believe in collective discipline, but sometimes the debates can be superficial and actually it's when you get people who really care and are knowledgeable about a subject, who are talking about it. It really elevates that debate and actually we've had a number of these debates. The two main ones, I think, are the, the assisted dying, but also we passed new clause one to the crime and policing bill, which took women out of the criminal law for their own abortions, which, if I do nothing else in this parliament, if that's the only two things I do, I'm happy and actually that spoke to some quite fundamental beliefs as well and that was really interesting debate.

James Hodgson:

And I'm sure there's plenty of debate in these groups known as APPGs and, as mentioned in the introduction, you are the chair of the Humanist APPG, currently the second largest, I believe, in Westminster. Could you explain a little the role of an all-party parliamentary group?

Lizzi Collinge MP :

Yeah, of course. So all-party parliamentary groups are a forum for people who are parliamentarians with a shared interest to come together and work on a particular issue. So you've got APPGs for patient safety, for example. I'm on the APPG for patient safety for water, for fair elections, which is the biggest appg just just crossed our our threshold we were the biggest and so the forum for people of all parties to come together and they have to be cross-party they can't be constituted unless they have a proper cross-party representation to advocate, to campaign. So, for example, the patient safety appg is working with the maternity appg on safe maternity care and we are making submissions to government ministers enabling people who, with lived experience, to come together and influence parliamentarians. And I think they're a really, really good forum for um making sure that important things aren't lost in this huge scale of government, because it allows backbench MPs like me to organise around an issue, and I think they're really important and helpful.

James Hodgson:

And has this been another forum whereby you've built allegiances across parties, gained allies or found ways to perhaps word an argument that might appeal to someone of a different political persuasion?

Lizzi Collinge MP :

Yeah, I think that's what's really interesting is, on APPGs and on committees you do get to make those cross-party friendships, which is always nice, I think, and it does mean that you can focus more on the issues at hand. And yes, sometimes you do come up against these sort of ideological differences that mean you see things in quite different ways. But I think Parliament is a lot less adversarial than people think it is. The chamber seems very adversarial and the attitude of who's in at that moment makes it more or less adversarial. The current Conservative opposition are fairly adversarial, but the all-party parliamentary groups are a way of taking some of the party politics out of it and building those cross-party relationships, which is the only way parliament works is if you fundamentally can have a civil conversation with each other.

Lizzi Collinge MP :

And in the humanist all-party parliamentary group we've managed to raise awareness of two really key issues over the past six months. So first of all, around the use of illegal faith schools, which is something that humanists have been campaigning on for over a decade. So these illegal faith schools are schools where usually high control religions have children who have either never gone to mainstream school or have been taken out of mainstream school, are given a highly religious education, sometimes to the extent of not learning to read and write, merely learning to recant religious texts. They have been the site of really quite gross abuses, both physical and sexual, and fundamentally, a lot of children are coming out of these schools with no education whatsoever and they're geographically quite confined. They tend to be in certain local authorities. These are thousands upon thousands of children who have been utterly failed by the system and until the recent Children's well-being in schools bill went through, there was very few legal powers to prevent this happening. So the APPG was able to talk to parliamentarians about why it was a problem, because there was campaigns against the measures in this bill, saying people should have the right to educate the children how they like. To my reply to that is yes, but you do need to educate them, and I think it's reasonable for a state to ensure that children are being educated, and you know it's alsoief of the state religion, as it is in some cases.

Lizzi Collinge MP :

We were very pleased to be joined online by a guy called mubarak bala, who was the president of the nigerian humanist association, and he was jailed for 24 years for a facebook post that was deemed blasphemous.

Lizzi Collinge MP :

He went through a dreadful ordeal and it was only through a sustained international effort that he was released and you know, I'm very pleased to say he's now safe in germany and he was able to join us online from germany and talk about his experience. And actually there's been a number of opportunities since that point and within parliament to talk about that experience of humanists worldwide, of atheists worldwide, who are persecuted for their belief or their lack of adherence to a chosen religion, and the government's approach to freedom of religion or belief helps us because it actively recognizes this. It's something that a lot of my colleagues didn't know about, hadn't really come across their desks. That obviously knew about religious persecution Christians in India, baha'i in Iran but the persecution of humanists or other people who don't believe in God had passed them by, and so I think that was pretty important and that has influenced government approaches to freedom of religion and belief.

James Hodgson:

Absolutely. It's vitally important work, and awareness is such a huge part of this. I think there's plenty of people who would be non-religious or perhaps even identify as humanists themselves, who wouldn't be aware of some of these issues and the intrusions on human rights.

Lizzi Collinge MP :

I think what's really good as well about the humanist APPG is that we have quite a few members of the public in or humanists coming in, so it's opening up parliament to people as well. Quite often APPGs are sort of the parliamentarians, the secretariat, who are usually from some sort of organisation, and maybe one person giving evidence. And actually the way that the humanist APPG is more open and that people are invited into parliament I think is a real strength, because I think demystifying parliament is a really important thing to do.

James Hodgson:

I'm making it accessible and you're just one person giving evidence. That must be quite an intimidating environment. No, and that's wonderful, and I know you mentioned as well that the fair elections APPG has just pipped the humanist APPG as the largest now, but that's very interesting to see that this is an issue which is now very strongly supported within Parliament and, of course, the Lords as well, and we did discuss it during I know you discussed it again during your talk at the Humanist Convention. We recently had an online discussion group actually with the Central London Humanists and the question we were there to debate was this topic came up so much during the convention should this be a humanist campaign? Should electoral reform, fair elections, be something which is we should be campaigning for, and does it have an alignment to a humanist worldview? I wonder if you had a view on that that's a really interesting question.

Lizzi Collinge MP :

So I do think the idea that every human is valuable and that kind of translates to their vote should be valuable. It's important to note that the fair elections APPG is not just about voting systems. It's also about interference in elections and democracy and dark money and donations and making a fair and transparent financial system for elections as well, and actually what we're saying is is not here's the answer. What we're saying is that, on electoral reform, what we need is a national commission that takes into account not only expert views but also members of the public's views, and try and have this national conversation about what a better voting system will look like. And I think, again, that does tie into humanist values of using evidence and reason to inform your view of the world, and I think that would be a really positive step forward, because I think too often nerds like me who talk about things like electoral reform jump straight into what about this system and what about this system, and actually that's not the point.

Lizzi Collinge MP :

The point is, what do we want from our electoral system? So I want to ask members of the public, what is important to you in how you vote? So, is it that you've got a constituency link, so you have a constituency MP no-transcript my number two, that's my number three I'm not ranking anyone else because I don't want them, but that's my view and election experts have their own pet system that they're like and I think instead of jumping to that, we need this national commission to talk through that in a systematic and sensible way and then try and come to a conclusion. And actually starting that commission without a prescribed outcome is really important yeah, that's a really interesting take.

James Hodgson:

I think we found when we had the discussion there's a big overlap, I think, with people who are interested in being involved in humanism with also wanting to see this election. But whether you can actually make that direct link is a bit more tenuous. But I like what you've drawn out there, that actually this brings together both the sort of the reason element of it, really examining what we want our political system to do with the compassion and the respect and the fairness for everybody as well. I think it's something that we're going to see. Hopefully it's going to be brought to the forefront through these appgs and through the campaigning as well. So we'll watch this space. I wonder if we could talk a little bit about your journey to politics, or journey to westminster, let's put it that way. So I mentioned in the introduction you had a career in private and public sector before, before getting into local politics. So which of your experiences or skills that you've picked up in life have you found to be most relevant or helpful now that you're an MP?

Lizzi Collinge MP :

I worked for many years in in catering in places like Cafe Nero Costa. I worked in Forbes, you know, until I was.

Lizzi Collinge MP :

You know I didn't have my first office job till I was 30 and I think that gave me an ability to interact with people and having met people from a huge range of life, which, as a politician, is really important and something you do all the time as a politician, I've knocked on literally thousands and thousands of doors and talked to, probably by this stage, tens of thousands of people and equally, when I worked in cafes, you'd have hundreds of different people coming through every day, and I think that's a good sell. Also, project management. So I'm also a project manager. You know, I started that in my early 30s and I think just the ability to organize yourself and to be quite action focused is important, not least for organizing elections, of which I've done quite a lot, but also, you know, organizing yourselfising, putting timelines in place. So, yeah, but I think I never I really never thought I would end up being an elected official.

Lizzi Collinge MP :

I definitely never thought I'd be an MP. It was never an aim of mine, but it came upon me that this is the way I could do something good. So I joined the party in 2014 and almost immediately the MP for Lancaster, cat Smith, who was then the candidate, invited me for a cup of tea and I thought, oh, what a nice woman she is. You're right with a cup of tea. I was on maternity leave. I was so bored and little did I know she was recruiting me for campaign, you know. So I started leafleting, door knocking because I really believed in Kat and what she was trying to do.

Lizzi Collinge MP :

And then in 2016, unfortunately, one of our county councillors died, and so there was a by-election and people were trying to persuade me to stand and I was like, no, I've not got any special skills, I don't know anything about the council. And then people persuaded me. Multiple people, over many drinks, bullied me into standing and it turned out I was quite good at it and I enjoyed it and it was a way that I could marry my different skills. And then that's just escalated since then. I suppose you know I stood for more committee in 2019, got in 2019, got battered and then stood again this time and won.

Lizzi Collinge MP :

So yeah, it's been a bit of a trajectory, but I think some people do go into politics and want to do it as a job, and maybe that's because they've been around politics or they understand that this is how you affect change, and this is the thing for me. The way I make my country better is being part of a Labour government. It's as simple as that. But I do think people who set out wanting to be an MP from a young age are completely mad. For me, it's somewhere that I've ended up. I think aiming for that straight away is a bit weird, but maybe that's just me. I have a very backbench approach to being an mp as well.

James Hodgson:

I'm very much constituency focused mps and do you think that westminster would benefit from more different experiences like career experiences that would you advise it? But let me reword that question a bit. Would you advise anybody who is potentially interested in politics to go and have a career in the private or public sector first and then bring those life experiences with them in their political career?

Lizzi Collinge MP :

Yeah, I would absolutely say that anyone who wants to be involved in politics has to have had some real life experience first. And I think actually this new parliament is really good because we do have a really wide variety of people and backgrounds. I think perhaps fewer manual workers than may have been the case in some previous parliaments that were labour heavy, but I've got colleagues who were KCs. I've got colleagues who were nurses.

Lizzi Collinge MP :

I've got colleagues who were teachers, I've got colleagues who run charities, I have colleagues that have run businesses, and that breadth of experience, alongside a better age profile, a better gender split, a better ethnic diversity, a better religious diversity, I think all makes us better legislators.

Lizzi Collinge MP :

Because, you know, I'm, gosh, the 598th woman to be elected to parliament ever. We have 650 mps in any one parliament and I'm the 598th woman to have ever been elected to the british parliament, which tells you that there's a problem, but there's less of a problem in this parliament than there has been in other parliaments and it is coming out in the way we operate, in terms of the legislation we're bringing forward, in terms of the priorities we're having, even in terms of the working conditions that we're putting in place, because all MPs obviously are employers, they have their own teams, and I really think the culture of parliament has changed with this intake for the better, because we have this diversity of experience and I think there's always more we could do. You know, I think we're very much underrepresented in terms of disabled people in.

Lizzi Collinge MP :

Parliament, for example, but I struggle to see how you can make good legislation if you have a Parliament that isn't primarily made up of people who've had real jobs, for want of a better phrase and you've mentioned some of the achievements that you've already been a part of in your first year.

James Hodgson:

Do you think about your sort of legacy often when you're in parliament? Do you think about if there's one thing you'd like to say? This is something I would like to change during your tenure in parliament, or is it? Are you mostly occupied with the many things that are coming across your desk each day?

Lizzi Collinge MP :

feels quite amusing. Think about my legacy one year in, but I might only have one term. The thing is I might only get one go at this. You know it's perfectly possible that I won't come back for the next election, so you know that's quite a helpful framing. I'm at least a fifth, if not more, way through my term, and it could be my own term.

Lizzi Collinge MP :

I am extremely proud of being part of the assisted dying changes. I'm extremely proud of being part of taking women out the criminal law in regards to their own abortion. I'm extremely proud of being part of this Labour government that has delivered renters' rights, the Employment Rights Bill so it's the biggest increase in employment rights in a generation. The Children's Wellbeing in Schools Bill, with, you know, dealing with those illegal faith schools which are not a vote winner anywhere. Let's just be clear. Like most people don't know about them, we're making that change in the law not because it's popular or electorally right, but because it's the right thing to do. I'm really proud of cleaning up the waterways. We've got all this brilliant legislation, football governance bill, which is really needed. My football club's currently in absolute crisis and if the football governance bill had been in place, it wouldn't be. What we're doing is really important. So I'm already proud of what we've done as a Labour government.

Lizzi Collinge MP :

I'm already proud of what I've done as a parliamentarian, but I'm also proud that my constituents have a good MP and a really good team working with me. I've got a fantastic team in Parliament and in the constituency who are every day helping people. We've had people being chased for money they didn't owe and we've got that stopped. We've got support for people's autistic kids. We've helped people individually as well as collectively and I think that that is something I'm really proud of. But I can't say that I've got in my head. This is what I want to achieve, partly because I've already done some of it. A sister dying would have been quite high up there and obviously there's still more stages of that to go. We'll see where the next three or four years takes us, but I am I'm hopeful that you know at the next election whether I get re-elected or not.

Lizzi Collinge MP :

We're in a country that functions better, like things just work, because that seems to be half the problem. For my constituents is like nothing works, because the inheritance we've had if we have country that functions better, like things just work, because that seems to be. Half the problem for my constituents is like nothing works because of the inheritance we've had. If we have a country, that's kinder. If we can get through some of the really what currently quite unpleasant national conversations, with people from reform and the conservatives actually engaging in dog whistle politics and whipping up quite nasty sentiment, if we can get through that and get to the other side and keep building on this liberal democracy, I'll be very happy. The other day I was in a launch actually it was the launch of the government's freedom of religion or belief strategy and one of the politicians on stage said and the international rules-based order? And I was like that's a very sexy thing for a politician to say I want more politicians to be talking about the international rules-based order, please.

James Hodgson:

So that's where I'd want to go yeah, and congratulations on everything that's been achieved so far. When you laid out like that and, as you say, there's always more to be done, but it sounds like it I must say it sounds like incredibly hard work. I hope it's rewarding it really is. It really is so, just before we go, we have our standard closing question that I asked all of my guests, which is what's something that you've changed your mind about recently and what inspired that change?

Lizzi Collinge MP :

I don't know about recently. The story I always tell about when I've changed my mind actually took place a while ago and it's about nuclear power. In my younger days I thought nuclear power was a dreadful thing and all this terrible waste coming from it. And then I went to a talk by a woman called dame sue ions ions which is beautiful nominative determinism there who was talking about how not only can nuclear provide really energy efficient use of land for energy and give clean energy, also nuclear waste, which is what I was bothered about. We've already got to deal with that. That's already a problem we have to solve, and actually new nuclear power really wouldn't add to that in terms of difficulty or volume. And I went oh yeah, she's right, and now I have the zeal of a convert when it comes to nuclear energy. Gosh, though, there was something else recently, and I can't now remember the example, but you know when else recently, and I can't now remember the example, but you know when.

Lizzi Collinge MP :

And actually I think I have this quite often. I don't think it necessarily changes my mind, but it helps me see things from a different angle, which is quite important. Oh, and I wish I could remember the example. I can't. But someone said something what about this? And I thought I haven't thought about it from that perspective before. I hadn't really thought about that and I think that maybe does change my mind to some extent as to how I'll deal with this. And I think that kind of curiosity is important and that kind of understanding that your worldview because everyone's worldview influences what they think, everyone thinks within their own framework. We humans, we can't avoid it. The key, I think, and what I try and probably fail to do a lot of the time is try and think outside that perspective and listen to people with very different perspectives to try and get that rounded view, and I think maybe if more of us did that, we might be in a happier place I think that's a perfect place to end.

James Hodgson:

Lizzi colin gmp. Thank you so much for joining us on humanism now. Thank you, and thank you for listening. Please, if you like the show, please do give us a rating and a review, and you can also support us at our patreon, which is humanism now podcast, and follow us on all social media. Humanism now pod brilliant, thank you very much.

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James Hodgson

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Lizzi Collinge MP

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