51. Maggie Ardiente, President of Humanists International on Spreading Joy in the One Life We Have

"Another form of resistance is joy.”

Maggie Ardiente, newly elected President of Humanists International, joins Humanism Now to share how humanism grounded in curiosity, compassion, and community can meet today’s rising threats to democracy and science. From a Catholic upbringing to global leadership, Maggie lays out a practical, joyful vision: build resilient humanist networks and live our values in the one life we know we have.

Connect with Maggie:

• Instagram – https://www.instagram.com/maggieardiente/
• LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/maggieardiente/

Topics we cover

• Building humanist community: from campus groups to a global movement
• Why labels and groups matter for the non-religious
• Humanism in public life: defending democracy, science, and human rights
• Joy as resistance: living well as a humanist practice
• Practical ways to start or grow a local humanist group
• Misconceptions about “humanism” in the United States
• Leadership skills for secular nonprofits (fundraising, empathy, voice)
• Supporting humanists at risk—especially across the Global South

Resources & further reading

• Humanists International – Global federation advancing humanist values – https://humanists.international
• American Humanist Association – US national org for humanists – https://americanhumanist.org
• Secular Coalition for America – Policy advocacy for secular Americans – https://secular.org
• Physicians for Social Responsibility – Health professionals for climate solutions & a nuclear-free world – https://www.psr.org

Chapters

• 0:00 Meet Maggie Ardiente, President of Humanists International
• 2:42 What does Humanism Mean to Maggie?
• 4:51 Beliefs of the Founding Fathers
• 5:50 Personal Journey to Humanism
• 7:40 Importance of Humanist Communities
• 9:38 Core Skills for Community Leadership
• 12:31 Advice to Searching Freethinkers
• 14:43 Current Challenges for Human Progress
• 20:21 Why Humanists Should Speak Up on Key Issues
• 23:02 The Power of Joy
• 25:05 Knowledge of Humanism in the US
• 27:02 Vision for Humanist International
• 30:19 Contact Maggie and HI
• 31:06 Finding Joy
• 33:35 Changing Minds on Homelessness

Transcript

James Hodgson: 0:01

Welcome to Humanism Now, a podcast about creating a better future through compassion, curiosity, and secular ethics. I'm your host, James Hodgton. Now, last week we interviewed outgoing president of Humanist International, Andrew Cobson, reflecting on his time in the role. And today I'm delighted to welcome our special guest, Maggie Oriente, the newly elected president of Humanist International. With the career-spanning leadership roles at the Secular Coalition for America, the American Humanist Association, and the PFLAG National, Maggie has spent over 15 years at the forefront of humanist and secular advocacy. She joins us to share her journey, her values, and her vision for the future of global humanism. It's an honor to welcome Maggie here today to share her journey, her values, and her vision for the future of the global humanist movement. Maggie Ardiente, welcome to Humanism Now.

Maggie Ardiente: 0:57

Thank you for having me, James.

James Hodgson: 0:58

I appreciate it. Before we start, I think I just want to say on behalf of all of our listeners, congratulations and welcome to your new role as president of the Humanists International. And perhaps before we dive into the interview, just to inform our listeners, I know you're dialing in today from Washington, DC, and we're recording late summer 2025. So Washington has been in the news a little bit recently. Firstly, how are you? Are you safe? And how is the general situation there?

Maggie Ardiente: 1:26

Oh, thank you so much for asking, James. Yes, I'm safe for now. The situation here in Washington, D.C., though, is certainly terrifying for a lot of residents and particularly vulnerable populations, trans people experiencing homelessness, people of color, immigrants. It's certainly very scary. It's hard to go down to the National Mall where all of our beautiful, famous Washington, D.C. monuments are, and to see National Guard soldiers walking around, to see FBI agents walking around. When we're just trying to live our life and be a part of our community, it's quite scary. And I think that people are taking safety precautions, but at the same time, they're certainly finding opportunities and ways to resist and speak out against this takeover of our city. So thank you for asking. I am safe for now, certainly being very cautious about what's going on.

James Hodgson: 2:20

No, thank you very much for sharing. And I do hope the situation improves soon for you and everyone there. As I mentioned, congratulations. And we're delighted to have you join us today. Our most recent episode was with your predecessor, Andrew Cobson. So it'd be wonderful to find out about your uh journey to this position, your views on humanism and where you see the movement going in the future. So I guess I'd love to find out initially, given your role, uh what does humanism mean to you personally? And how have you defined it of your career?

Maggie Ardiente: 2:52

When I first started getting involved in the movement, and this was as a student at James Madison University, there was a group called the James Madison University Free Thinkers. And I felt when I joined that organization, I had really found my tribe, my group, because I had always been a skeptical thinker from a young age, and but really kept the identity of being an atheist to myself for a long time. And it really wasn't until I found that community that I felt, you know, there was an opportunity to really grow my thinking about this movement and also learn that there was a bigger movement out there beyond college. Later that year, my sophomore year, I attended the Godless Americans March in Washington, D.C., and learned about the national atheist and humanist organizations that were working and advocating toward building a movement of non-religious Americans. And that was really exciting to have my eyes open to the bigger world. But I identified as an atheist for a really long time. But as I learned more about humanism, both in college and when I started working at the American Humanist Association, that I really wanted to find a term that spoke to what I believed in rather than what I didn't believe. There's only so many conversations you can have about not believing in God. And there's only so many times you can go up against religious beliefs and maybe make fun of some religious beliefs. That was getting a little old to me. And I really wanted to start exploring a philosophy that had actual principles and values. And so when I learned about the American Humanist Association and learned an opportunity to become an intern there, that's where I dove into the magazine, dove into the many people who have received the Humanist of the Year Award, and learned that this is a rich philosophy that goes back many years that so many people have helped build. And I think really speaks again to what we are supporting, not what we're necessarily against.

James Hodgson: 4:59

What's your view on the founding fathers and whether there was human the the seeds of humanistic values in the founding of the US and the idea that became America?

Maggie Ardiente: 5:13

Yeah, absolutely. Certainly, Enlightenment principles had everything to do with the formation of the Declaration of Independence and our constitutions. And we look to Europe and we look to other ways of thinking in which that developed the foundation of our country. And that's why it bothers me so much when we talk about America being a Christian nation. Our founding fathers could have had many opportunities to put God and religion all over these documents, and they didn't. And I think that's a really important thing to point out, particularly to Christian nationalists who are trying to claim this country as one nation under Christianity. And it's absolutely wrong.

James Hodgson: 5:49

Yeah, very true. And could you share a little bit more about your personal background and your journey pre-college, your upbringing, your values, and what led you to be curious about these ideas?

Maggie Ardiente: 6:00

Yeah, sure. So I was raised Catholic. My dad was a single dad who raised seven kids. Being Filipino, uh Catholicism and culture are very intertwined. It's really not one without the other in many ways. And I mentioned that because I think that a lot of that upbringing certainly shaped me growing up. Somehow I was, though, very skeptical of the stories I was reading in the Bible and skeptical of sitting in mass and wondering why we were repeating the same things over and over again and that this is boring and things like that. And my dad, though, he strongly instilled a sense of education being a way out of poverty. We're certainly a working-class family, and it was difficult growing up, though I loved my experience, and I think again it shaped who I am today, and it wouldn't change that for anything. That installation of the importance of education helped me become more of a skeptical thinker. I did well in school and I was taking classes and learning more and learning about different ways of thinking and different beliefs and different ideas. And but again, I really kept some of these secret thoughts that, hey, maybe there isn't a God to myself. I told no one. I thought that even saying it out loud would, you know, that there was a God and that he, she, they would strike me down with a lightning bolt and that would be it. But then when I started thinking bad and it didn't happen, it was a really good opportunity for me to explore. And then as mentioned, when I went to college and I felt like I had the true freedom to really explore my beliefs, and I found the JMU Freethinkers, that was it for me. And I was just so beyond happy to be able to talk about these things I've been thinking about for a long time and find a community of people who thought like me as well.

James Hodgson: 7:41

And now you're very much involved in leadership roles of many of these communities. Um what importance do you place on coming together collectively as whether it's humanists, atheists, three thinkers? I say that as a lot of people when you mention these beliefs, people say, Yeah, that's great, but that's why do you need to give that have a label? Why do you need to have a group? But obviously, you've been at the forefront of organizational and community involvement for 15 years. Why do you think that's important?

Maggie Ardiente: 8:08

Oh my goodness. Yes. I would love to speak to every single person there. And they would, with a lot of great questions, you would be able to find out they have communities for everything. You have communities for fitness, for bowling, for sports, for for music that you like. Community is core to who we are as human beings. We are social animals. And it's really important that we find those communities where we feel that we belong, where we feel we can explore ideas again and try to make the world a better place with what we're doing. Whether people like it or not, you we all belong to a community. And I think it's even more important for the humanist community to build that community because we're not very large. If we're comparing ourselves to religious organizations and the communities they've built and the institutions and buildings and networks that they've built, we're a really small fish and in a huge pond of the world. And I really think that it's so important for us to build those networks because, as we see, we've got a lot of problems that are happening in the world, and we're gonna need to band together in order to fight back against some of these, again, anti-democratic, anti-scientific forces that are out there. And we can be the leading organizations and groups that do that. I really think it's important to find people so that you don't feel alone, but that you can also again explore these ideas that I think do make the world a better place.

James Hodgson: 9:36

Couldn't agree more. And and as mentioned, you've held leadership positions across major secular and humanist organizations in the US and now globally as well. What skills do you have you found to be the most valuable in both community organizing, but particularly when we're talking about secular organizational leadership?

Maggie Ardiente: 9:57

Yeah, I think it starts certainly with experience, having some experience in some way, in particular humanist communities, I think. To again be able to be a part of local organizing and local advocacy and being tuned into local issues that affect humanists. And building experience on that and being involved in those groups, I think is a really key skill and really important for anyone who wants to continue to seek leadership roles in this in this movement. And I think that there's certainly other types of skills that I think come naturally to people who are interested in working in nonprofit work and nonprofit organizations and charitable organizations, of which humanist organizations belong as a fundraiser for over 20 years. That's that's been my career path. It actually is a very important skill if you're looking to lead organizations, because certainly without money, it's very difficult to achieve your aims and work toward your mission. And certainly public speaking, of course. I think we need to get a lot of different types of leaders and voices out there speaking on behalf of humanism and really inspiring different types of people and people from all kinds of backgrounds to be a part of this movement. So I think that's important. And then I would say certainly empathy, strong decision making, integrity, um, building, being the kind of person who can really build strong interpersonal relationships. I think those are all important skills and characteristics of leadership in this movement. And we need a lot more of that because again, we are we have organizations that are looking to demonize us out there. They're looking to find ways to point to us and say, we're evil, we're bad. And so we really need to be coming from a place of empathy and compassion and kindness and goodness to help us recognize that we're an important movement that has been around for many years and we have a lot to say.

James Hodgson: 11:50

Yeah, I can agree more on just having more voices out there that can truly represent humanism, represent the diversity within humanism and the and as you demonstrate that our numbers are much greater than people perhaps would think on the face of it. Certainly need more voices, and we certainly need, as you say, to ensure that what we are putting that message out there that is empathetic, compassion. We often talk here about curiosity and compassion, using those as you love that to engage with the world and to and to build coalitions as well and where we can to be stronger. What's your advice to anyone? Perhaps they may be they may feel like they're the only humanist in their state or country, looking to connect in terms of uh putting yourself out there, because it it can be scary, I think. And you're you're right, we need more voices and we need and it takes one voice to start a community sometimes. So what would be your advice for someone who's maybe looking to either build a community or build a presence and a representation of humanism in their local community?

Maggie Ardiente: 12:52

First, I would say you are not alone. One of the things I wish that, Wayne again, when I was coming up and feeling alone in my thoughts about being a humanist and being an atheist, I really felt I was the only person in the world that had these thoughts. And I want to just 100% emphasize that not only are you not alone, but there is a a global community out there that has helped develop this philosophy, that has helped develop these values and that you can plug into and that you can find. I want to first say that and for anybody to be certainly take a look at so many resources that are out there on the internet, in books, and in podcasts. There, there's so many wonderful people who represent the humanist movement and speak on behalf of humanism. And I encourage people to educate themselves about the great work that humanist organizations are doing across the globe. Certainly, I think that an individual should certainly plug in to their organization, their humanist organization in their respective country. Here in the United States, we have the American Humanist Association, which has been around since 1941. And they have, I believe, over 300 humanist chapters across the country, I think in nearly every state. And if you don't have a community in your state, think about starting one. The American Humanist Association provides a lot of great tools for starting your own chapter. I know Humanists UK and many other organizations also provide those tools. So I think just find that inspiration, learn, educate, you know, get plugged into your humanist organization in your country and really take that leap because we do need more organizations. We do need more community, and that could be the great start of a very long connection and leadership in the humanist.

James Hodgson: 14:36

And I'd love to dive into now your vision and your mission looking ahead at your time now as president of Humanist International. I know you've been involved for some time already and obviously, as mentioned, had other leadership roles. But from your perspective, stepping into this role in 2025, what are the most pressing issues facing humanists, and I suppose by extension, humanity more broadly in 2025?

Maggie Ardiente: 15:01

Of course, I'll first start by saying, you know, having to follow in Andrew Cobson's footsteps is certainly something that I'm honored by. And he is certainly a tough act to follow. I have known Andrew for many years. The first time I met him, I came to London actually for fun. And this was back in 2010. I had been working at the American Human Association for about five years or so, and I think that's around the time he had been working at Humanists UK, but then just became executive director. And I always knew him to be somebody who was, oh gosh, incredibly smart, talented, witty, but also had a very strong vision for where humanism should go in the future. And so it's amazing to see where Humanists UK is now because of his leadership, and where Humanist International is now. And so I feel like I've I'm plugging in to an organization that already has a strong foundation because of his leadership. So thank you to Andrew, and thank you to the many other leaders at Humanist International that have really helped grow this organization to the tremendous influence that it is now. I will mention that certainly I'm coming into the presidency at a really unique time in the organization's history where we're seeing significant threats to democracy, significant threats to scientific inquiry. And it's very scary because we're trying to still build our numbers. We're still not, in comparison to again, other religious organizations and movements, we're really not where we need to be. And this goes back to, again, the biggest threats that our world is facing. We're seeing it here in the United States and certainly in other parts of the world where these long-standing democratic institutions are now being significantly eroded. And we're having difficulty finding people to stand up against them and win. So I think that's the biggest worry that I think the humanist movement has. I think these the growing Christian nationalist movement here in the United States is particularly alarming. There's a lot of concern. And when I think about my vision for humanist international, it really comes back to community. It's why we need to be building more communities in the global south in particular. We need to be strengthening humanist organizations that already exist. We need to have a be a presence in every single government institution, the United Nations, everywhere where we can have a voice. We need to be at the table. We need to stand up. This is no time now for humanists or atheists or non-religious people to retreat. We are really facing an existential crisis. And we need to come together and support. So, yeah, my vision is really hoping to really build our movement to build upon the great work that Andrew and other humanist international leaders have built and build that community so that we are ready to fight back when we need to.

James Hodgson: 18:01

And do you worry with so many urgent and pressing threats and the news cycle being what it is, with, as you say, these attacks on democracy, attacks on science, attacks on human rights, that there are other longstanding developing issues that we potentially are not able to pay as much attention to, given the pressing nature of some of these threats?

Maggie Ardiente: 18:24

Oh, I think there's so many. I think we could go through a laundry list of so many issues. And I think one of the one of the great things I think about humanism is that I think we can have an opinion about everything under the sun. Yeah. Because when we think that this is the one life we have that, and that we want to make it better for ourselves and for future generations, then we need to have a voice absolutely everywhere, again, in order to make the world a better place. Yeah, certainly economic situations right now are top of mind. I think that's something that a lot of humanists certainly care about. We care about uplifting people out of poverty and we care about meeting the most basic needs of people. But I think we're not realizing how important humanists need to do for us to do something about that, certainly until now, with inflation and so much economic uncertainty that's happening in the United States and across the globe. So I think that's one particularly pressing issue. I now have a new job. I work for Physicians for Social Responsibility, which is an organization that mobilizes physicians and other health professionals to advocate for climate solutions in a nuclear-free world. Certainly climate change and nuclear disarmament. These are the sorts of issues that, again, are existential threats to our entire world. And again, I never, before I started working at Physicians for Social Responsibility, I never thought I needed to worry about nuclear war, nuclear weapons. And then we see what happened in Iran and what Trump did, and again, what North Korea is doing and what Russia is doing. And I'm a little worried we're almost at the brink of such an opportunity and never thought I'd have to think about that in my lifetime. And yet here we are, because of the state of the world that we're in. And so there are a lot of concerning and pressing issues that humanists should care about right now, and however people can get involved in those issues and representing the humanist voice, I think, is really important.

James Hodgson: 20:15

So many important topics that you've raised there. And I think the challenge often is that with so much happening in the world and so many existential threats, that it can feel overwhelming and it can both the individual and even small communities can feel quite underpowered to address them. So what's your message to humanists as to why humanists can and should play a vital role in addressing these issues?

Maggie Ardiente: 20:38

I think that knowing again that we this is our only life, that this is the only life we have. And that, you know, again, humanist philosophy not only speaks to the individual having a good life and being able to live the life that they want, but that we should be leaving the world and making the world a better place for other people, I think is so key to the definition of humanism because we could all be hedonists and just go out there, live our life, enjoy ourselves and not care what other people think or what they do and not care about leaving the world in a different place. And I think that's not what humanism is all about. When we recognize that there is no heaven and there is no hell, and that we need to make the most of the one life that we have, I think it's all the more reason for us to have a voice in every possible issue and to make the world a better place for everyone. I think you would say even religious people, because sometimes religious people feel like we're not here to make their lives better, but we absolutely are. Again, I think the core founding of humanism is the idea that you do have the freedom to believe and not believe. As long as you're practicing your belief how you see fit and you're not harming other people, go at it. That's great. Enjoy yourselves. That's the beauty of freedom, and that's the beauty of the freedom to believe and the freedom of consciousness. For me, I think it's just absolutely critical that we have a voice in all ways. And again, that we are working toward making the world a better place for everyone.

James Hodgson: 22:04

I love how you explained all of that. And I think sometimes we can get tied up in some of the academic uh or the specific virtues and beliefs and views of humanists, but actually from that core belief or that core acceptance of this is the one life we know we have. It's fleeting, it's beautiful, we get to enjoy the world and our shared humanity and to live in a time where we can know where we came from and we can predict where we're going. You can build a moral framework and you can build a respect for the planet and for fellow people as well. And that as you rightly say, we should leave this world in a better state for the next generation to continue the endeavor.

Maggie Ardiente: 22:42

I love that.

James Hodgson: 22:44

So yeah, I it's lovely to hear you say that. And yeah, I echo your call to humanists to get involved. And there is, as you say, strength in numbers and support in numbers as well, because it can be it can be very difficult.

Maggie Ardiente: 22:55

Yeah, absolutely. In fact, I think with regards to the strength in numbers, I remember that early on, a lot of humanist organizations, at least in the United States, they really focused a lot about sort of those lectures and philosophical thinking and developing the philosophy and identifying the values and identifying the statements that we stand in. But I think now when we look at humanist communities across the globe, sometimes it's really just again connecting as human beings, living your humanism, the practical living of humanism and not just the academic thinking about that, which is all very important. That's how the philosophy started. But I think we're at a time where we need to start actually applying those principles in our everyday lives. And so I find a lot of people who are joining humanist communities again are just looking to find people who think like them, but then they go off and do other things. Again, they do sports, they do activities, they have wine tastings, they go out and travel and go camping, they do all the wonderful social activities with people that are like-minded, but they focus a lot more on again, living a good life. And that's where I want to see a lot more humanist communities doing because I think that even when we're protesting and we're going up against really big issues, another form of resistance is joy. Another form of resistance is living a good life. I think the religious right and conservatives hate that. They hate that we're enjoying freedom and that we're loving life and having a good time because we recognize again that this is the one life we have. I think it irritates them. And so, if anything, the more we find community, the more we have joy, the more we live our life the way we want, I think that embodies humanism and we should be doing all of those things.

James Hodgson: 24:39

Yes, very good to also remember that as well, I think, to that to make the most of this one life and not get bugged down, as you mentioned, with the yes, campaign and advocate for the changes that we want and for individual and collective rights. But absolutely, yes, enjoy the life and make the most of this one life that we have. I just wanted in from your perspective as well, how do you feel the perception and understanding of humanism is as a term, as a worldview in the States? There's some common misconceptions that we come up against, but those misconceptions tend to change over time. So what is the current uh level of understanding of humanism in the general public?

Maggie Ardiente: 25:17

Very basic for sure, in the sense that when sometimes we say the word humanist or humanism, it automatically people think, oh, so you support humans, you support human rights, or something very vague like that, which we do, of course, but they're not understanding sort of the deeper meaning of humanism, the progressive philosophy of life and without theism, without supernaturalism, peace to humanism. I'm quite jealous, particularly of the UK and other countries across the globe where people do know what humanism is, generally speaking. They recognize that largely it's it's it's a deep philosophy. But that being said, we do have a lot of work to do to bring humanism to the general public. I don't think that's going to happen in a short period of time. We have many years. And again, you know, we we need to compare ourselves to religious organizations, that's just not fair. They've got a few thousand years ahead of us. Certainly they have other tactics that they have used to bring their numbers up, whereas what we offer, I think is really strong. People do tend to think, oh, heaven? Yeah, that's a pretty good reward. Okay, I'll join this group. Oh, this group is no heaven. That's it for me. Okay, I'm not sure. They've got some decent things to sell, but we have something very strong to sell too. Again, I think one of the most liberating things for me as I was developing my philosophy was the idea that I need to make the most of this life and this is all I have. So I think that's a really good selling point. But yeah, I really do think that we're up against a lot, but with regards to the understanding of humanism across the globe, but that's all the more reason for us to again strengthen our organizations, strengthen communities, and really put ourselves more out there as speaking on behalf of our movement.

James Hodgson: 26:55

And looking ahead, what is your vision for Humanist International as an organization going forward in the next however many years you uh plan to be in this role?

Maggie Ardiente: 27:03

Certainly, cooperation and collaboration are the biggest. Again, I'm building upon a really strong foundation, but I think that there's a lot more that we can do. One of the things I've learned recently, having been on the board of Humanist International for a couple of years prior to being president and being involved with Humanist International for many years, again, through my work at the American Humanist Association, is that when we come together and when we can collaborate and talk about the work that we're doing in our respective countries, that's where the ideas get shared. That's where each country and other leaders can learn from each other, best practices, what to avoid. Those are that is so key. When we can get together at our annual World Humanist Congress, when we can get together via Zoom meetings, one of the things that we introduced recently that actually came out of a longstanding tradition that we had at the Secular Coalition for America, which, similar to Humanist International, is a coalition of the US-based humanist and atheist and secular groups, of which I also serve as president and have been on the board for many years, is a part of our annual meeting where every national organization and member organization of the Secular Coalition for America speaks for about five minutes about the great work that they've been doing over the past year. And recently, Humanist International also tested this out. They had actually come to an SEA meeting the previous year, saw that we did that, loved the idea so much, and decided to do it via virtual earlier this year. And we had something like six or seven organizations speak, again, very briefly, but a lot about the great work that they did. And we need more of that because afterwards we got a lot of great feedback from people saying, we need to do more of this. I learned some great ideas. I learned what this country is doing. I want to connect with them and get their resources on humanist celebrants or humanists in the military or how to advocate it against a bill that you disagree with. There's so many ways we could really be exchanging ideas. And so my vision is to continue that, to strengthen that and to increase that more and more. That is what we're learning from all of our member organizations that they need. So, yeah, that's just one. I do think we need a lot more leadership training. A lot of people have been involved in humanist organizations for a long time, but aren't equipped with the skills in order to lead organizations and take a greater role. That's something I'm hoping to see. And then really building upon what Andrew helped strengthen during his tenure. And that's again, increasing organizations in the global south where it's particularly dangerous to be a humanist or an atheist. We need to continue to support humanists at risk who are being harmed and arrested and even under threat of death for simply being a humanist or speaking out against religious beliefs. I think that's something that we really need to strengthen and support. And in order to do that, we need to support the growth of communities in countries in Africa, in Asia, in South America and Latin America, all of these things need to get done in order to again strengthen the greater movement.

James Hodgson: 30:10

And we touched on this before, but if anybody is listening and is inspired and wants to get in touch with Humanists International for support, for leadership training, for getting starting a group, finding fellow humanists, what's the where's the best place to start?

Maggie Ardiente: 30:25

Humanists. Or search for Humanist International. Our website has a lot of great information and content. And we have a great team that's working to, again, connect with so many different types of people to really help build those communities. So definitely reach out to us. We're on all the socials as well. Please get connected with us because even one person can make a huge difference. Sometimes it's just checking us out on the website. And all of a sudden, three years later, you're starting your own humanist organization and community in your country. We really need you. So please definitely check us out at humanist.international.

James Hodgson: 30:58

Now, before I go, uh we usually have our standard closing question, but I want to come back to one thing you mentioned before about finding joy in this life. I think it's so important. So Maggie, where do you find joy?

Maggie Ardiente: 31:09

Family, for sure. Again, I come from a big family, and I adore my father, who did struggle for many years being a single dad of seven kids. That is a hero feat in and of itself. I'm very close with a number of my siblings, and my brother is actually living with me right now. I think family or chosen family is so important right now. And I encourage people to hold their loved ones tight, particularly now when we're living in such, again, dangerous conditions and difficulties in this world. But yeah, I find a lot of joy, certainly in work. I've had the honor and pleasure of working as a nonprofit fundraiser for over 20 years now. And I know sometimes people have a lot of misconceptions about fundraisers, and they find that difficult. They say, Oh, I can never ask for money. That's really hard. But if anything, I actually find a lot of great challenges in that. And I find joy in raising money that helps organizations like Humanist International and Secular Coalition for America, and again, EFLAG National and Physicians for Social Responsibility and all the organizations I've worked for or volunteered for in my career, being able to help a donor and a supporter find an organization that they're passionate about and taking their hard-earned money and giving it to help make the world a better place, I find incredible joy in that. And I think it's a great honor. So I do find a lot of joy in my work. I'm very lucky and privileged to be able to do that. Yeah, and certainly I find joy in everything from food to drink to boxing and yoga and bowling and watching movies and watching TV. I think there's we live in such a unique place in our world's history. And to not be able to take advantage of the wonderful things that are out there, nature and just goodness, folks, you've got to do it. Please. Don't despite the fact that we do have a lot of pressing challenges and concerns about the world, don't get bogged down in that. Again, one wonderful form of resistance and a way to really stick it to the man is to actually enjoy your life and live authentically and live freely. And so I really encourage people to do that. Find joy wherever you can. And again, I'm really happy to be able to find joy in so many wonderful things.

James Hodgson: 33:28

Before we go, our standard closing question. What is something which you've changed your mind on recently and what inspired that change?

Maggie Ardiente: 33:35

This is a great question. I've been thinking about this a lot. I mentioned earlier my father instilled the idea of education and hard work to be able to uplift out of difficult economic circumstances of which we grew up. And so I really took that to heart and really strengthened my education and wanted to, again, have a good job and do all of those things in order to sort of uplift ourselves from our working class background. I think though, one of the downsides in that kind of thinking is that when you look at people, particularly people experiencing homelessness, and when and I first encountered that when I moved to Washington, DC, after I graduated college, I lived in the suburbs and really didn't encounter that much. And so when I moved to Washington, DC, and I would see homelessness on the streets, I would, I had this horrible thought that, oh, why can't they get a job? Why can't they just work hard and they wouldn't have to live on the street? I was very fortunate to, after I worked at the American Human Association, to work for an organization called the National Law Center on Homelessness and Poverty. I was very interested in this work because I was completely unaware of people experiencing homelessness and the issues that they had to deal with. And it truly opened my eyes. This is not as simple as get a job. These are human beings who are people who have fallen on very difficult times through a lot of circumstances that had nothing to do with who they are and decisions that they've made in their life. These are real people with real stories, with real families. And a lot of people also don't know that people experiencing homelessness is often temporary. People sometimes look at somebody and think that they've been on the street for years, and some have, but some are in transition, some are maybe they've lost a job and they're looking to move forward. But this is the only way that they can survive. I was really grateful to work for that organization because also I had the thought that people experiencing homelessness, they're violating laws. We should just put them in jail. And the law center had established a campaign called Housing, not handcuffs. And I learned so much about the money that we spend having police remove people from the streets only for them to be in jail. That costs a lot of money. And then when they leave, they're back on the streets again. And then it's even more difficult for them to get a job, to get housing. So that's it's a cycle, it's a terrible cycle. And so I completely changed my mind about people experiencing homelessness. I came with a lot greater compassion and empathy and understanding about where they come from. And now I've decided that the solution to solving homelessness is housing, period. It's a lot of, of course, it's certainly social services and other basic needs that need to be met. But one of the most basic needs that I believe everyone in this world should have, no matter who you are or where you come from, is stable, safe housing. And that's an issue where I've changed my mind significantly. Again, I'm grateful to the National Law Center on Homelessness, Homelessness and Poverty for helping me learn more. And I do encourage people. If you're if you were like me who thought people should just get a job, please do some deeper thinking and again come with some greater empathy and compassion.

James Hodgson: 36:49

I couldn't agree more. Need to give people the basis to make them and have their basic needs met in order to allow them to fulfill and contribute to society. Thank you for coming to your role and this interview with empathy and compassion and curiosity as always. Thank you for joining us on Humanism Now.

Maggie Ardiente: 37:07

Thank you so much, James. It's an honor to speak with you. I've really enjoyed our conversation. Thank you again.

Humanise Live: 37:13

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