Introducing The Secular Sankofa Podcast - Reclaiming African Identity Through Secular Humanism

This week we bring we are delighted to share the first episode of The Secular Sankofa Podcast, from the Association of Black Humanists. 

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"We believe in people, not prophets, we believe in freedom, not fear, and we believe in integrity, not doctrine" - Audrey Simmons, Podcast Host

The Secular Sankofa podcast is a platform for Black humanists to reconnect with African identity and heritage through a secular lens. The hosts introduce the Association of Black Humanists, its mission, and vision for creating a space where Black people can explore humanism without religious dogma.

Stay connected with the Association of Black Humanists:

• Meetup: association-of-black-humanist
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Learn more about our work and community at abhumanists.org

Music: Icy by Jeff Kaale

Chapters

• 0:02 James Introduces Secular Sankofa
• 0:52 Opening Libation from Audrey Simmons
• 3:20 Introducing Secular Sankofa and Cultural Reconnection
• 5:33 Lola Tinubu on the Mission of Association of Black Humanists
• 9:56 Clive Arude's Journey from Catholicism to Humanism
• 15:53 Politics, Pan-Africanism, and Black Liberation
• 20:08 Future Topics and Community Invitation
• 25:58 Get Involved with Association of Black Humanists
• 27:31 What to Expect from this Podcast
• 29:32 Closing Affirmation and Sign-off

Transcript

James Hodgson: 0:02

Hello everyone, James here. Humanism now is taking a short break this week, but I wanted to share something really exciting. I've been working with our friends from the Association of Black Humanists, many of whom you may recognize from previous episodes, on their brand new monthly podcast series, The Secular Sankofa. Each month, host Audrey, Lola, and Clive sit down with guests to explore the unique perspectives and challenges of being humanists and free thinkers of colour. I'm thrilled to share this first episode right here in our feed. But if you'd like to hear more, just search for the Secular Sankofa wherever you listen to humanism now. We'll also include all of the links in the show notes. Make sure you hit subscribe to be notified of future episodes. But for now, I'll hand over to the team. So enjoy the secular Sankofa.

Audrey Simmons: 0:55

Welcome to the very first podcast of Association of Black Humanists. This podcast is called The Secular Sankofa. My name is Audrey Simmons, and I'll be your host today. And I'm also joined by my two colleagues, Lola Tanubu and Clive O'Day. Hi. Hi. As Association of Black Humanists, we'd like to open up this session with a libation. For those of you who don't know, a libation is usually done with some kind of liquid, usually alcohol, and it's an acknowledgement, a way to come together collectively. It is usually done in a call and response, but as we're on a podcast, I will be saying everything. So if you would like to, once I've said umbuntu, the response would be, because of you, we are here. I invite you to say that wherever you are. I pour libation in acknowledgement of the great migration out of Africa. Umbuntu, because of you, we are here. I pour libation in acknowledgement of our forefathers, our ancestors. Their DNA runs through our bodies. Their knowledge and their trauma is still within us today. Umbuntu, because of you, we are here. I pour libation for all the sentient life and acknowledge that they too are the caretakers of this land. I acknowledge that they give us life and balance the universe to make it complete. Because of you, we are here. I pour libation for the motherland Africa and all that she has been through. Her land is rich and her people are strong. They have endured much strife, but we are still here fighting, growing, living. Because of you, we are here. I pour libation in celebration of all that we have been, all that we are, and all that we will be in the future. Umbuntu. Because of you, we are here. In this space, we'll have some real conversations about race, about black people, but they'll all be from a godless view. And before we continue, I just wanted to mention something about our name. We are called the secular Sankhofa. And most of you may know that the Sankhofa is a Ghanaian word from the Akan language. And it's its depiction within an Edinkra is a bird that is reaching back. It's so you'll see it with its head back and it's looking back. And for us, that represents us as black people who are in the West or who have been through colonialism. And we have to be reaching back for our history. We have to be rewriting what has been written about us and written on our behalf, that collective history that is no longer about us in the way that it should be. And we wanted to take that idea of looking back, using our history, but not in that spiritual way, not calling on our ancestors, but in a more practical way, in a way that organizations that are there supported black people, in a way that we tell our stories and in the way that we interact with each other. So the idea of a secular Sankopha is us as humanists looking back, using that Pan-African idea of looking back at our history, but from the view of humanists, of African humanists, of black humanists. And we're a growing movement of black people, of African people, African Caribbean people, and we are daring to ask questions, and we're rejecting the religious dogma that surrounds us, and we are opting to be telling the truth as we see it. We are humanists, we believe in people, not prophets, we believe in freedom, not fear, and we believe in integrity, not doctrine. So let me bring in my two coasts and my co-hosts today. First of all, Lola, let me bring you into this conversation. And who are we and why do we need an association of black humanists?

Lola Tinubu: 5:46

The association of black humanists, we started out as London black atheists. And we started because we were wondering why when we will attend humanist and secular events and we will see so few black people, we felt that things were not adding up. We are tired of being told that religion was our culture. I need to say, I remember when I first became an atheist humanist, and I would try to explain to people the relationship between Christianity and colonization and slavery, and then they would throw it back at me that oh, atheism, humanism is a Western thing, as if to be superstitious and religious, especially to be Christian and Muslim, is African culture. It has been so embedded in our psychic through colonialism that to be a Christian is African, and that if you reject superstition and you become a humanist, you are now being flipped as if you are being another colonial mentality. We believe that Africa is the cradle of reasoning. Therefore, this is one of the reasons that we started London Black Atheist and then we became associated with black humanists. We are tired of the silence around how religion reinforces racism, patriarchy, and oppression. We are post-colonial and we are very passionate about our desire for progress of black nations and communities. We are aware about how religion is suppressing the desire because we see the connection between religion and politics and how African nations are being run. We see the influence of Christianity and Islam, and that good living, having a functioning system that will give health, education, and everything decent to black people, is not of that black people are passing through being alive is a journey, and the goodness will come to black people in afterlife. We are challenging that we are coming together as a community. Sometimes I hear that we are lost when we live religion. We are not lost. We are not lost, we are awake. Our mission is about more than just leaving religion, it's about reclaiming our humanity, our voice, our future. We are committed to social justice and civil rights, anti-discrimination of all kinds, progress and dignity for black people globally, Pan-African unity, raising and critical thinking. We are going to do it ourselves, not some angels, not some prophets, and not some god that is not hearing African voices.

Audrey Simmons: 9:30

Thank you, Lola, for that real good summation of who we are as ABH. And Clive, I want to bring you into the conversation now and just tell us a bit about your story, where you are coming from, and how you ended up here at ABH.

Clive Arude: 9:47

Yes, it's thanks, Audrey, for inviting me to talk. Now, we where did I how did I get to be involved? It's really what happened was I was a Christian, actually Roman Catholic, and I was very active as a Roman Catholic, was what we call a Eucharistic minister. So I used to help the priest out when the priest when we were doing the mass, and if there was somebody in the congregation who couldn't show up because they're not enough or whatever, their leg is hurting them, whatever, then I'd go and visit them and do my a little ceremony for them and end up by giving them the Eucharist, the body and the blood of Christ. So I was very involved and committed. Then one day some children asked me, What is science? So I knew they were quite smart kids, so I couldn't just say, Oh, science is biology or physics or chemistry. I had to tell them something a bit more substantial. So I went to Google and typed it in, and out came all these links telling you what science means academically, is something which is repeatable, it's testable, verifiable, it's falsifiable, and so on. So once I'd understood what all those terms meant, then there were a lot of other links which links you to the science of cosmology, for example. So where did the planet and the stars and the moons and where did all that come from? So it turns out that there's a natural explanation, and you don't need a god or gods for any of it. And then where did all the life forms come from? Again, there's a natural explanation for we don't know exactly how life started, but we know that once it had started, then Charles Darwin was able to explain by means evolution by means of natural selection how all the life forms, all the different life forms got it. How did they evolve? How did they appear? So there were natural answers for so many things. And at first I was very reluctant to let go of the God sin. I was saying to myself, maybe okay, there might be natural selection, but maybe that's how God wanted to do it. But the idea of a natural process is that you don't need a God, it's just not required. So I got to a stage where I had to decide: do I want to keep on believing the religious narrative where there's no evidence, or do I believe in the natural way of looking at things where there's lots and lots of evidence, and the evidence is piling up more and more every day. So I really had to give up religion at that stage and become somebody who's believes in more natural things. However, when I first happened, I didn't know anybody else who was an atheist or humanist or anything like that. I thought I was maybe the first one or the only one. And I went on Google again and looking for people who believed in a natural way of looking at life, and of course I came up with quite a number of different groups, one of which was the British Humanist Association, which is now called Humanist UK. So I joined them, but they only do maybe two or three events a year, so that wasn't much use. So then I found out that there's a Central London Humanist who do an event pretty much once a week. So that was much more what I was looking for, and I joined them as well. So I joined the Beautiful Humanist Association, then I joined Central London Humanists, and I thought that's it, I'm all done. But then I kept noticing that there were only a very few black people, and so I couldn't figure it out because London is just, I think it must be 30, 40 percent black people. Then I met Lola and another couple of friends, David, and I also met Jody, and we came together to form London Black Atheists, and later on we changed our name to Association of Black Humanists, and that is more or less explains how I got here. So how I came to be here today.

Audrey Simmons: 14:32

Thank you for that, Clive. And I think what you've just explained is this that becoming an unbeliever and changing that world is a journey. There's no epiphany, there's no road to Damascus for us, it's a kind of long slog of unpicking the world that we've grown up in and disengage in and that disengagement. I think we did some research with one of the universities. I think it was CLH, was that right? We with not CLH, University College, King's College. And from that research, we found out that it takes about 10 years for someone to kind of start to think about not being an atheist or start to question, and to that long road of actually saying, I'm now an atheist, I'm now no longer a believer. So there's no, this isn't a sudden decision, this isn't something that we take lightly, it's a long process. And I think your depiction of that and explaining that to us has been really clear to say that this isn't just something that we just suddenly do. You know what I mean? We analyze, we look at, we we weigh up the odds, we do all of that, and then we come to a conclusion. And I think that just shows that we can't we can't just switch things on and off. And this is real indoctrination that we are dealing with, and to unpack it takes a long time. So thank you for that, Clive. Lola, I want to come back to you now. We're talking about being a black atheist, we're talking about all of those things. They're quite emotional, but isn't there a more political? We talked about racism, we talked about oppression, we've talked about all of those things. Can you just expand on that a little bit for us?

Lola Tinubu: 16:11

Absolutely, Audrey. But there's something I want to mention before I talk about the political side of humanism. Is following up on what Cliver said, one of the things that we will be doing with this podcast is having guests who will share their personal stories of their journeys out of religion. What reactions do they face from the family and community? It's not an easy thing. So, for people who are going through that, this is a podcast for you. For us, humanism is also very political. It's about black liberation from mental, cultural, and colonial chains. We cannot talk about black people and humanism without talking about racism, about injustice, and how religion has often been used to justify slavery, to justify homophobia and the oppression of women. We want this podcast, and this podcast will challenge these legacies and offer new ways to think, to fill, and to build.

Audrey Simmons: 17:30

Thank you for that. And I think that is something that I'm going to be looking forward to in taking part in all of this, bringing those stories and bringing those ideas and bringing those thoughts together for us. And I think I suppose we can't talk about us as black people, as African people, as humanists, and all of those things without bringing in that kind of pan-African vision. Because we're Africans. However you slice it, however we cut it, wherever you are in the world, we know that we, that origin is where we're from. We have to look at things from that global perspective. We can't work in isolation. And we can't talk about black people and humanism without kind of thinking about the Pan-Africanism and how it brings solidarity, healing, that collective progress for black people everywhere. Because it's the one thing that binds us, it's the one thing that brings us together wherever you are. And we know that we have differences. I'm a Caribbean woman, and we have our Nigerian, you know, colleagues, our Ghana, now South African, we have those from Ethiopia, and we all have cultural differences. And we don't have to negate any of those things. Those things are quite apparent. That's what it is. But the Africanness and that's that one thread, and I have to say it, our melanin brings us together because wherever we go, that's the one thing that people see see us for. And when we're talking about the politics, we need to look at what's been happening recently within the Labour Party. And when people bring up that kind of idea, there's a battle that we have in this kind of conversation about how much we can talk about ourselves in that context. And I think those are the kind of things that we want to tease out and bring to the fore. So we can have this conversation about ourselves. And some of it may be controversial. Some of it we might feel that it's it isn't what we should be talking about, and there are other things, but it's about education and it's about the self-determination that we need to have, and it's about rebuilding ourselves after colonization has tried to dismantle us and disenfranchise us and make us separate. So we have to believe in the future of Africa and her people. And this depends on critical thinking, science, and human rights. And we need to, you know, the main thing as humanists, we need to be free from dogma as our main priority. So, Loli, we're talking about some of the things that we've got to look forward to. We're talking about interviews. Is there anything else? What is that? Bring us in, bring us up to date. Who can we be? What are we going to be talking about?

Lola Tinubu: 20:12

Yeah, we've talked a lot about bigger stuff. We've talked about pan-Africanism, we talk about colonialism. These are really big things. But we are also a grassroots group. We deal with individuals as well. When you live religion in a black home, what do individuals go through? This podcast will be inviting guests to talk about living religion as a black person. What is your experience? Clive, one of the founders, is always saying that when he left religion, he lost the church that has been a big part of him, but then he gained the entire universe. We'll be inviting guests that will talk about the trauma because a lot of us do face trauma living religion. So the trauma is from our immediate family members, from our friends, and from the community. Sometimes there are specific things that sometimes it seems that we are repeating ourselves, and like when it's getting boring, sometimes some people believe that, oh, we've passed this, we don't need to, everything is fine now. Everything is fine in the society. Just get on with it. It's not really there for us. So we we are the only ones that can talk about ourselves. Sometimes we don't want to talk about certain things within the larger humanist community, or maybe they are not interested in that all the time. They want to talk about other things. We want to talk about other things as well, but we have to deal with our issues. We cannot, we cannot leave the issues that we are we are facing. We will also be inviting guests to talk about black feminism. Is it a thing? Is it not just feminism? You know, we are all women. Why do we need black feminism? We will also talk about being LGBT and being black. Religion? I don't know any religion that is tolerant of LGBT community. Although we have a friend who has a church and is he say being gay means God adores you, G-A-Y. We will be hopefully invite him to come and talk to us, talk to you about that, and then talk to other LGBT people and what they are facing with religion. We will also be talking about religion and politics in Africa and diaspora. I think I've said this a few times. Also, very importantly, we want to explore the true African history. We did not come from the Garden of Eden, we are not black Israelites. We have Africans that are saying that they are Israelites. We come from the Garden of Eden. No, we will be talking about our true African story. We will also be talking about the courage to doubt and the power of asking questions.

Audrey Simmons: 24:02

Thank you. I'm looking forward to this, Clive. I know you are a science guy. You are a space guy. Are we going to be talking about that? What else can we look forward to in this space? And who is this space for?

Clive Arude: 24:17

I'm glad you mentioned the words space and science because those are things I've come to love. I'm not saying you can't learn about space and science when you're religious, but it's a completely different ballgame when you don't look for an explanation which is always the same. God did it. You know, no, you want to find out what's really going on. I remember when I first found out that, for example, all the planets, the stars, the moons, the all everything that you can see is only 4% of what is out there. So what is the other 96%? It turns out there's something we can't see, dark energy, and also we can't feel or touch dark matter. 96%. So we're only 4%. I couldn't believe it. It blew my mind. And but science is like that. You find something which grips you and it rocks you to your very foundation, and you can't really help but get excited about it. So when you lose the church, you haven't really lost much because you're going to gain the whole universe, and science will help you to get there. So we hopefully will be having people coming to talk to us about that. And also we'll be having people talk to us about all sorts of other wonderful things. I am going to hand it back over to Audrey to, and if there's anything else you'd like to find out about, I'll be on, I'll be glad to help.

Audrey Simmons: 25:52

I think we this is our first podcast. So I think what we're trying to do here is just set the ground. We're trying to give people a little taste of who we are, what we are aiming to do. And also we want them to share in what we're doing. It's not going to just be us sitting here talking to them. We actually want people who are listening, who hear what we're going to say or hear what we say and say, actually, I want to engage with you guys. I want to know what you're talking about. I want to, I've got a question for you. So do feel free to engage with us. We're on social media, who isn't these days? Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, Association of Black Humanists. But we will be updating our social media. So do keep a lookout for that. But also, we meet face to face. We are on meetups. So please, we'd love to see you at our meetups. We have a Pan-African book club. So again, look for information about the books that we that we are reading. And we want to be a part of all of this conversation that is taking place. So we are humanists, we don't believe in the supernatural, but we believe in life. We believe in we've got to get up every day, we've got to put on our shoes, we've got to go to work, we've got to pay our bills. So we're a part of life, we're a part of the of the world. And so we have to have those discussions and we have to be a part of the everyday. So those are the things that we be facing or be dealing with and discussing and being a part of. I'm gonna hand over to Lona and Clive for the last word, and then I'm going to do our affirmation to close this session. So do join us in that. So, Lona, any last words from you before we get to the affirmation?

Lola Tinubu: 27:38

I think I'm just going to say we are going to be bold and we ask you to be to do the same. We are going to try our best to be free, and we're inviting you to do the same. And we are going to stay human. And we invite you to do the same.

Audrey Simmons: 27:59

Clive, any last words from you?

Clive Arude: 28:02

Yes. Just encouraging people to join us. Don't listen to what people have told you about uh humanists or atheists. We don't have horns growing out of our heads. Just it's a wonderful thing. Join us because you want to find out more about what's out there. Join us because you're questioning religion. And if you like some help to navigate your way through and to understand uh hot things a little bit, then this is why we're here. This is a space for you. And of course, if you're humanist or you're passionate about race and equality issues, Pan-Africanism, environmental issues, and black nations and the history of them and world justice issues, join us. Join us, enjoy it if you want to enjoy it or be part of it and join us physically or online anytime you can. So I'm gonna I'll leave it there.

Audrey Simmons: 29:12

Thank you so much, Clive. Thank you so much, Lola. This has been a real blast for me. I've really enjoyed it, and I'm excited for what we're gonna do in the next shows. Do keep in touch and let us know. Gonna start our affirmation. I have to say that we are African people, and I think an affirmation of who we are, a confirmation of who we are, should be the way that we end all our interactions. So we're gonna end our first podcast with our affirmation. Allow me to start. We are the authors of our destiny. We do not wait for miracles, we create change. We reject all ideas that diminish our humanity, whether they come from racism, oppression, or religion. Our history does not limit us, it empowers us. We carry the wisdom of our ancestors and the fire of the future. We are capable. We are creative. We are courageous. We are rebuilding. We are rising. Africa and her people will thrive. Not by faith, but by action. We move forward by unity and reason and purpose. As black humanists, we believe in ourselves and the power of our minds. Hands and solidarity to shape a just, free, and dignified future. This is our affirmation. We have been association of black humanists. Thank you for joining us on our first podcast. I thank Lola and Clive for being on this journey with me, and we will see you next time.

Clive Arude: 31:08

Thank you, Audrey and Lola, and see you all next time. Thank you.

Humanise Live: 31:13

Secular Sankopha is produced by Humanize Live for the Association of Black Humanists. If you enjoy the show, please leave us a rating and a review. It helps more people discover us. For more from the Association of Black Humanists, find us on Meetup or at LB Humanists on all social media platforms. Humanize Live creates world-class podcasts, videos, and events for purpose led individuals and organizations. If you're ready to start your podcast, visit humanize.live to learn more.