64. Empathy in Action: Wil Jeudy on Uniting Secular Politics

“Humanism is increasing well-being and decreasing suffering for as many people as possible.”  - Wil Jeudy

 In this episode, Wil Jeudy, a secular humanist and political organiser based in Texas, shares how empathy shaped his journey from disengaged voter to coalition-builder, why secular government protects believers and non-believers alike, and how coordinated local action can push back against Christian nationalism.

Topics we cover

•  Humanism as empathy in action and a guide for political engagement
•  Why secular government safeguards freedom for everyone
•  Texas as a frontline in the rise of Christian nationalism
•  Building coalitions across secular and religious communities
•  Turning community into political influence without burnout

Resources & further reading

• Follow Wil on Instagram: @wil_jay3
• Secular Houston – Coordinating local secular groups to amplify political impact:  secularhouston.org
• Houston Oasis – A welcoming, community-focused secular gathering with talks and music: houstonoasis.org
• Secular Coalition for America – Coalition advocating for secular public policy at the federal level:  secular.org
• Secular Texas PAC Announcement  – State-level PAC supporting candidates who defend church–state separation
  • Donate & Support the Secular Houston PAC

Chapters

• 0:00 Meet Wil Jeudy "Empathy As A Political North Star"
• 1:05 Empathy As A Political North Star
• 2:51 Why Secular Government Safeguards Freedom
• 4:38 State of Church-State Separation
• 7:26 Building Effective Secular Coalitions
• 10:33 Normalizing Secular Humanism in Society
• 15:00 What to Expect at Houston Oasis
• 18:10 Maintaining Focus & Joy in the Struggle
• 21:03 Contact Wil & Secular Houston
• 22:32 Introducing the Texas Secular PAC
• 25:45 Changing Minds

Transcript

James Hogson: 0:01

Welcome to the Humanism Now Podcast. I'm your host, James Hodgson. Our guest today is Will Judy, a secular humanist and atheist activist who spent the past decade building community and political influence. From serving on the board of the Houston Oasis to acting as the Texas State Director for American Atheists. Will sits on the advisory board for the Center for Free Thought Equality and the Secular Coalition for America. And he's also the founder of Secular Houston, an organization which aims to bind local secular groups together to give secular politics a stronger, coordinated voice. Will Judy, thank you so much for joining us on Humanism Now. It's an honor to be here, James. So I really wanted to invite you on the show. I think we've been in similar circles for a little while now. And one of the things that really stood out to me was the first line of your bio, which says, you're someone who strives to make the world a better place. So perhaps to introduce you to our audience, it'd be great to learn more about your perspective on what a better world would look like.

Wil Jeudy: 1:05

Man, a better world is really founded on humanism and empathy. Empathy really is the distillation of why I do what I do. And I think I've always been kind of an empathetic cat. But uh after the election of 2016 here in the US, I decided to do more and making the world a better place. Again, my definition of humanism is increasing well-being, decreasing suffering for as many people as possible. And I decided to do more for my fellow humans at that time.

James Hogson: 1:40

I note that your active involvement in humanism was 10 years ago in 2016. So was it a direct causation from the election at the time?

Wil Jeudy: 1:49

Yes. The election, I had always been politically kind of active. Just I voted every two years in midterms and presidential elections, but I'd never really knew, I'd never got down into the nitty-gritty and to the weeds as far as local politics, even state politics. I was young, I was raising two daughters, and that was the extent of my involvement in politics. But after that election, I decided to do more. And it coincided, actually, it was just a coincidence that I stumbled into the secular group, Houston Oasis. I wasn't looking for a community. I had slowly flittered away from religion. I grew up a believer. But in college and medical school and just meeting people, learning about the wider world, it just made less and less sense to me. I never had a sudden traumatic break from religion. I just flittered away. And I wasn't looking for community, but I stumbled into Houston Oasis that same year. And I think the combination of the two really supercharged my fire to do more, also known as humanism.

James Hogson: 2:51

And why do you see humanism and secularism as foundational to your view of a better world?

Wil Jeudy: 2:57

It allows empathy to reign. And that's what I'm all about. And I get it. There are some people that don't care about other humans. And to them, what's right is going to be different than what I think is right. I get that. But I want to put energy into a world where people like me are making decisions for the good of, again, the most people as possible. And I get it, I live in this world. What's good for me may not be good for a racist or a misogynist. But I'd rather see a world where people like me succeed and people like them are marginalized. And secularism, as far as it being foundational, really it should be secular government should be absolutely protected. Uh secularism in society, great. That's the way I prefer to live in a secular world. But we live in a world where people are religious and they are totally comfortable. They're great people. Whether it keeps them from doing bad things or it spurs on them doing good things, it works for them. And I'm not trying to tear that down. I'm not anti-theist, but a secular government is absolutely necessary. And I'm not a huge fan of what the founding fathers here in this country did. At least the whole body of work. There's a lot that got wrong, but they absolutely got the separation of church and state right at the beginning. They only had to look back 50 years, 100 years to look to see what happens when religion and government are mixed, a theology. River streets run red with blood. It's oppression. And they want to know part of that. For that, I am grateful for them.

James Hogson: 4:38

And how do you see the status of separation of church and state and in the US at the moment?

Wil Jeudy: 4:43

It's always a to and fro, kind of pendulum-y, chaotic, maybe. It's a big country, different states. I live in Texas, and it stays bad here in Texas, and I have my hands full. So I'm cooking the stew of Christian nationalism here in this state. But I see what other states are doing, and they do move forward with protecting that separation at church and state in other states. And I work here in Houston and in Texas to move us forward and meet them, meet them in that place.

James Hogson: 5:12

And do you find there's still support amongst friends who are moderately religious, the concept of secularism as was set out, as you say, in the founding? Or is the case for secularism still as strong as it was before? Do some religious people understand the reason why secular government is so important? Is that message not getting through?

Wil Jeudy: 5:30

That has been the single biggest surprise I've had in these adventures, is advocating for the separation of church and the state, also known as pushing back on Christian nationalism. You have to word it, and authentically so, that I'm not anti-theist. I'm not trying to tear down religion. I am advocating for a secular government. And I always have to raise my voice with that. Like it's in government that secularism has to reign. That way, religious people and non-religious people have the freedom to not worship or freedom to worship as they want in their home, in the public square, at church. Without a secular government, all that collapses. And yeah, they once they understand that, the walls go down because that word secular has some weight to it. And if they know who I am, atheist, agnostic, whatever you want to call it, again, there's more weight to that. So there's an inherent trepidation to what I'm bringing to that conversation. But yeah, I've done a pretty good job of explaining myself in a succinct way. And the biggest surprise I've had is how many religious individuals and organizations are as repulsed by Christian nationalism as I am, as my side of the history is repulsed. To them, it's a twisting of their religion. Not all of them, but I've been surprised with the number of, again, individual and organizations that push back as harder, not harder than we do, Christian nationalism. And I'm proud to be in coalition, all of them. And in our conversations, as I've gotten out there and say, hey, we're here, we're we want to push back. When I asked to be at the table and in the conversations, they're like, absolutely, where have you been? Like, yes, here's a seat. It's been amazing. And there are people that, yeah, they still recoil at that word secular. They think I'm going after religion. It hasn't been as many as uh as I thought there would be. It's been a very pleasant surprise.

James Hogson: 7:26

And I'd love to talk more about your experience, coalition building, community building, and particularly through, as mentioned, secular Houston. So you're working to connect secular groups and amplify the political voice together. So how can humanists, secularists, however we want to refer to the groups, how can we form more effective coalitions to influence politics from your experience?

Wil Jeudy: 7:48

To influence politics at the local level, even state level. You have to organize. It took me a while to figure out what I wanted to do as far as with secular Houston and being a voice for trade state separation in the local political realm. I love efficiency, a very efficient kind of guy. So I figured I had this whole list, 20 plus things I want to approve in society, not climate, LGBTQ issues. I could go on. But I figured, you know what? If we elect better people, they can make those decisions and advocate for all that list or most of this list. That would be the most efficient use of energy instead of joining it a climate club, instead of joining a racial equity club. This way, it's just an efficient use of energy. So that's kind of what drew me into the political realm. At the same time, again, I was getting more and more heavily into the uh humanist, secular world, atheist world. And so that's why I merged the two. Elect better people, secularism, church sake separation, bang. That's how secular Houston came about. And secular Houston, it really has two arms. One is to bind all the secular groups in the city and eventually the state together and just again help to form community. And then anyone that just wonders what is secularism? What is an atheist group? What is humanism? It was like a one-stop shop with all the definitions, all the groups in Houston and Texas and the nation. Hey, this is what we're about, and people can learn from that. The second arm is the political arm to teach people how to focus energy to advocate for church state separation at the local level and do that efficiently. So it's taking me some time, but that's what we do.

James Hogson: 9:28

And does Interfaith Alliance um play a part in the strategy as well? Or are you purely looking at bringing together the secular vote, as uh one of our previous guests had called it?

Wil Jeudy: 9:37

Interfaith Alliance is amazing. I'm I've been at the table with them as well. They're a national group, and I'm not there yet, but groups I am involved with are American Atheists, American Huguenist Association. At that level, they're all talking to each other. They're all at this at the table, advocating for the same thing. My vision is to get secular voters energized and even more politically active because I'm secular, because it's a church-state separation issue. Maybe they were like me, they vote every two years, but don't really get into the nitty-gritty. I kind of excite them because this is our lane, and now they can do a little bit extra. And one person doing extra is not going to change the world, but this is where you become one blade of grass in a grassroots movement. And that's what I'm trying to do. That's a long game. Get more and more blades of grass, and eventually Texas can join these other states in more normalcy.

James Hogson: 10:32

And do you see then as reclaiming the term as well or uh I guess spreading the understanding and the empathy, perhaps, and of the term secularism, and perhaps more people who may be in faith themselves are more comfortable saying that they support at least secular government. 100%.

Wil Jeudy: 10:49

Yep. I'm trying to normalize that term, trying to teach believers or people that just don't know or don't care what that term secular means. It's not really, it's nebulous out there, just like humanism is. Atheist is a little bit more, I mean, it's scary, but people know what that is. I use all these terms to normalize them. When I was a believer, if I met you and you said you were an atheist, I would recoil. Yeah, just instantly. Bad devil. I am as visible as possible. People have to mash this, I think I'm a good guy, this good guy will with an atheist. They have to mash that together and so that the next time they meet an atheist, they don't recoil and teach people what secular means. It doesn't mean anti-theist, it just means not religious. And why a secular government is absolutely crucial to keeping this country together.

James Hogson: 11:39

It's interesting because I know you've worked under all of these banners actually in the groups mentioned, secular groups, humanist groups, and atheist groups that have those terms in the titles. And I think you're right, for a lot of people who aren't actively following this, those are interchangeable. Those of us who are active in the community would see them as quite different in terms of what their foundations, what they stand for. Although, of course, there's overlap very much. So when you're bringing these different groups together, do you see stock differences if someone is a humanist group versus purely an atheist group? They are pretty interchangeable in terms of the membership, or whether you do see differences when they interact.

Wil Jeudy: 12:12

So I stumbled into the Houston secular world 2016, and there were three dominant groups in Houston, and they had the beef, as they call it. They had there was a lot of friction, turmoil, bad blood. And I walked into that and I was like, wow, this kind of sucks. I'm a kumbaya kind of guy, and unite for one common purpose. But eventually I got on the board of Houston Oasis and I kind of worked to squash that beef, as the kids say. And it's been kumbaya ever since. It's been amazing. So there was a humanist group, an atheist group, and a kind of free thought group. Those are the groups in Houston. I also heard of that same stuff happening at the national level. When I came in, it was already being resolved. So as I grew and learned and met people in the secular world of all the groups, I didn't see as much strife. But it it still exists. Cooler heads prevail generally, and there's always a mantra of, we have a common goal, we need to work together. And I think that wins the day. So I'm happy with the relationships that all the secular groups have in this country.

James Hogson: 13:18

And in terms of general perception and understanding, again, when you speak to you you mentioned previously, you mentioned to someone that you're an atheist, they might recoil. I'm wondering, take a typical citizen who isn't active in in these groups. What is the level of understanding when it comes to secularism, humanism, atheism? And you know, are there any which are a more friendly introduction to these areas? And free thought, which you also mentioned as well, which is another uh potential name, a group name that we have. Yeah. Are there differences in terms of the perceptions you find?

Wil Jeudy: 13:50

There are a lot. There's a lot of baggage that comes with names. Free thought, no one knows what that means, so it's not scary. Humanists, some people kind of know what that means, but not so scary. Atheist is scary to just general Americans. So just the name will bring some emotion with that. But all of the groups I'm just speaking for the ones in Houston that I know intimately, you'll find some angry people here and there, but they're absolutely the minority. When Houston Atheist gets together, we talk about sports, we talk about politics, we talk about beer, the weather. Yeah, Christian nationalism is bad, but it doesn't dominate our conversation. And anti-theism is just not anything that binds us. And if we do talk about that, it's fleeting and we go on to the next topic. So I try to communicate with that to people. They won't know unless they're there, but they won't get to a Houston atheist meeting because, ugh, atheists. But Houston Oasis, a free thought group, it's a 501c3, they don't get involved in activism. So it's way more tolerable, way more palatable to a normal person. It's structured like uh TED Talk with music, and it has a churchy structure to it. So people that are questioning, way more comfortable for them to walk into a Houston Oasis gathering.

James Hogson: 15:01

Yeah. I'd love to find out more about Houston Oasis as well. As mentioned, you joined in 2016 and uh I think is it right to say you were later on the board as well, uh and a director there. Back on 10 years of involvement and activism, uh particularly where you are in Texas, uh where have you seen the most meaningful change and progress?

Wil Jeudy: 15:23

My path took me into activism. I stumbled into Houston Oasis. Again, it's not an activist group, but as I learned more, as I figured out what my passion was, that led me into activism through it all. I'm now still involved with Houston Oasis, absolutely, all the groups here in Houston. The most impactful thing has just been to be visible. We now, for pride events here and in town, there are more and more of them every year. We have a table, we have a common secular table. All the groups are at that table, we're representing and just talking to people, and there's a constant line of people asking what we're about, seeing what we're about. We're being visible. We let people know that there is community for people that don't believe. And we're normal people, are not devil worshippers. So it the being visible is really kind of the thing that I've been the most proud of, and I think the most impactful generally. And my path took me down to activism and political activism specifically. And I hate tooting my own horn or saying talk about successes, but we've been really damn successful here, putting energy into church separation specifically. And that I think has been impactful to date. I'm gonna see where it goes, but the inertia is heading in the right direction.

James Hogson: 16:40

And if someone was to stumble into Houston Oasis, what can they expect? It's a free thought group.

Wil Jeudy: 16:46

There's 50 to 60 people, which again is really doing really well. So after the pandemic, we've slowly increased the numbers. As a musical guest, they play a couple songs, four songs throughout the hour and a half. You have a someone from the community might give a talk about a favorite book or an experience for 10 minutes, coffee break, and then we have a main speaker. And that topic could be anything from poetry to science to nature. It's all over the place. Uh, and really proud of the speakers that they've had come through, including out-of-town speakers, big names coming in and speaking to us. So yeah, and then yeah, more music, and we we end the day. So again, kind of a churchy structure. Some people don't like that at all. Some people absolutely love it. So that's what you can expect with Houston Oasis and actually all the Oascs, I don't know how to say it, throughout the uh country.

James Hogson: 17:34

There's a network across the US?

Wil Jeudy: 17:37

Yep. Yeah, Oasis Network is a kind of a blanket the blanket org, but there are other Oascs around uh the US. I don't know if I'm saying that right.

James Hogson: 17:46

I tried to get across everything that you do in the introduction. I know you wear many hats, and as you mentioned, you're in involved in the activism side, the community organization side, politics now as well, and uh still being involved in Houston Oasis, which I think sounds like there's still some you know, community group that's focused on getting people together and enjoying their time as well, which I think is an important part of this that we sometimes miss. With everything you're doing, how do you stay energized and focused? Because I often worry with those of us active in this area, or again, particularly those active in the activism side, there's so many challenges that we're facing. You've outlined many already. It can be quite overwhelming. So, where do you find the strength and the motivation to continue?

Wil Jeudy: 18:36

A weird case in that I can do all this stuff. My job, it doesn't affect my job. I have a good day job that lately kind of changed and allowed me a little bit more time to do activism in my free time. So I don't get blowback on my job. My family, again, I don't get any negativity from my family for being a secular activist, atheist activist, whatever you want to call it. Uh, I'm healthy physically. I have two daughters that are now adults and grown out of the house. I sold the house, got a bastropat. So I can do all of this. And so I had a lot of space on my plate and I filled it with activism. And I'm pretty good with looking inside myself and figuring out back, hey man, you're overextending, you're getting tired, but you need to unplug for a little bit. I'm pretty good with that. And I think I always have been. So I'll do that. I'll do self-care, I'll figure out what I need to stay sane. And sometimes I get in the red, like lately, there's been a lot of activity here recently. The world is going to and it drains me. So lately I've had really had to do a lot of self-care, but I do have that skill to figure out what I need. And lastly, my friend Dr. Anthony Penn, who's a superhumanist, he would say at the end of his talks, and it really took it to heart. He's a big fan of Camus, the philosopher, and he would end his talks by saying, one must imagine Sisyphus happy. So that's a quote from Camus. And my day job, I'm a physician in my day job, so outcomes, I want 100% great outcomes all the time. People's health and lives depend on it sometimes. But with activism, being an atheist activist, secular activist in Texas, I cannot I can't rely on outcomes. I'm going to fail most of the time. I'm going to lose a lot of times. But one must imagine Sisyphus happy, rolling that rock up the hill. It's always going to roll back down. He's never going to get the success. But you find happiness in the struggle. And that's what keeps me going. It's the people I meet. It's the fact that I'm pushing back on this and inspiring others to do so. I find joy in that struggle. And it has kept me going actually for a while.

James Hogson: 21:02

So I think before we finish up, I'd love just to just a little bit more about Secular Houston. If anyone is listening to this and would like to get involved, either supporting what you're doing at Secular Houston or perhaps extend this to other states or elsewhere in the world. Because I definitely think the idea of bringing groups together where we have a common goal is really important. How can people get in touch with you and where would you advise they get started if they were looking to do something similar? So, yeah, Secular Houston is my baby.

Wil Jeudy: 21:33

I formed it in late 2021. Our website is being done up and running by the time this is out. So you can contact us through the secularhouston.org website. And again, if you see what's happening in this country in the USA and you want to do something, it's really hard to figure out what you want to do. And that's kind of where we come in. We have a whole list of things from easy to hard that you can put some energy into affecting change in this country. So

James Hogson: 22:04

Our website again is going to have that information on it. So I think we were saying there's a list of things from easy to hard that the web how people can get involved, and your website will have the information.

Wil Jeudy: 22:14

Again, we've been having a lot of really good success. Every election, we have a more and more robust endorsement list. Our name is out there. We're a known thing here in the Houston area. And lately, this is breaking news. It just became official about a week ago. I also formed a state PAC, a political action committee. It's called Secular Texas PAC. And it's separate from Secular Houston, but intertwined for sure, because my vision is to accept donations for this PAC. And again, it's a state pack. It's not the gross corporate PACs or super PACs that are all opaque and gross. This is another way that people can help. I have two jobs, I have three kids, I don't have time to go door knocking. I don't even have time to write postcards. But this is a way that people can just donate a little bit of money to us and let us do the work. Money in politics always gross me out. It's just bad. But in this country, that's the machine that exists. And Christian nationalism, it enjoys a mountain of money and they use it effectively. So this is my attempt at having my own little pile to push back on it. I was like, the Christian nationalists can fund one or two Death Stars. And this is me trying to get an X-Wing fighter. But hey, maybe that's all you need to fight the big Death Star. So it just became official less than a week ago. There will be a button on the website if people want to donate. Again, that is one way that people can help. And but we're on the way. Secular, and my vision is secular Houston exists, but I want to have a secular San Antonio, a secular Austin, secular Dallas Fort Worth, where they have their own list of candidates that are worth our money and your time and energy. And we help them get elected. And when they get elected, they know that there's a constituency that cares about church state separation that helped them get elected. That's where we can get some power. That's where we can lobby for bills that advocate for church state separation or push back against gross bills like the Ten Commandments bills here in Texas. And that's where we kind of have the power to affect change.

James Hogson: 24:22

Thank you for sharing the breaking news with us and congratulations on another exciting new endeavor. And just to reiterate, so if anyone is looking to get involved either in Texas, but as you mentioned, if someone is elsewhere in the States and would like to do something similar to reach out to you. And apologies, I'm not familiar with PACs and how they work, but what can the PAC then be extended to those other branches as well and support it in other areas?

Wil Jeudy: 24:47

Yeah, the PAC, yeah, it's a United States thing. United States citizens can only donate to the PAC, as far as I understand it. But yeah, all the monies that we collect go toward supporting candidates that are endorsed by secular Houston and then and beyond eventually. And also trying to educate people on church state separation and what Christian nationalism is. That's also a route where our money will be, our money will go. So we're not paying board members. It's all in the oven up. We're all very straight arrows and transparent about where the money goes. But it's all about pushing back on Christian nationalism and advocating for church state separation.

James Hogson: 25:28

Well, best of luck with everything that you're doing. It sounds like a tremendous initiative. And we will leave links to everything in the show notes if you would like to get in touch with Will to join or contribute. Before we go, our standard closing question. What's something which you've changed your mind on recently and what inspired that change?

Wil Jeudy: 25:44

I go back to the biggest surprise I've had is with how much believers individually and organizations push back on Christian nationalism. I thought it was just a fringe of them that cared about this. That's been the biggest surprise. I've changed my mind on how specifically Christians get about Christian nationalism. It's been the biggest surprise of these adventures, and I'm glad for it. I am proud to be in coalition with them and pushing back together, shoulder to shoulder on Christian nationalism.

James Hogson: 26:16

Well, Judy, thank you so much for joining us on Humanism Now.

Humanise Live: 26:20

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