71. Beyond Belief: Humanism From The Heart with Steve Ghikadis

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 “Curiosity leads to fully understanding someone’s situation and being empathetic to that person.”

Steve Ghikadis is a Humanist Officiant, author, and speaker who leads secular weddings, memorials, and other life-affirming ceremonies in Ontario. In this conversation, he explores street epistemology, interfaith family life, raising curious and compassionate children, and why humanism needs to lead with empathy as well as reason.

Connect with Steve 

• steveghikadis.com 
• Humanist Canada Officiant Profile
• facebook.com/steve.ghikadis
•  instagram.com/steve.ghikadis/
•  tiktok.com/@humanismfromtheheart
•  Goodreads – Steve_Ghikadis

Topics we cover

• Street epistemology in practice
• Disagreeing with kindness & curiosity
• Interfaith relationships 
• Raising curious, empathetic kids
• Humanist weddings in Canada
• Morality without religion

Resources & further reading

• Humanism from the Heart: Building Bridges Beyond Belief – Steve Ghikadis (2024)
• Recovering from Religion
• Sunday Assembly
• Evidence and Understanding –The Humanist (2025)
• What the Heck Is That!?!” The Humanist (2024)
• Interfaith Family – Marriage and Parenting with Mutual Respect – Humanist Canada (2024) 

Transcript

Welcome Steve Ghikadis

James Hogson 0:01

Welcome to Humanism Now, a podcast about secular ethics, curiosity, and compassionate change. I'm your host, James Hodgson. On this show, we often explore humanism as a worldview grounded in reason, evidence, and critical thinking. But today's guest invites us to think about something equally important: humanism from the heart. Steve Jicadis is a humanist officiant who leads secular weddings, memorials, and other life-referring ceremonies. A graduate in history and education, he champions interfaith understanding, drawing deeply on his own experience in an interfaith family. That journey inspired his book, Humanism from the Heart, Building Bridges Beyond Belief. Steve also serves as an ambassador for Humanist Canada, Recovering from Religion, and the Sun Bay Assembly. In 2024, he was awarded the King Charles III Coronation Medal in recognition of his contributions to his local community. Steve G. Cadis, thank you so much for joining us on Humanism Now. Yeah, thanks so much for having me. It's awesome to be able to talk to you. We've been connected for a while. I've had the pleasure of reading your excellent book, and it's a real pleasure to welcome you. I really appreciated humanism from the heart. I must commend you on making it very uh manageable, short chapters that are easy to consume, which I think is much a much harder skill in literature. And I loved the various anecdotes and the way that you bring in lessons through the anecdotes in your personal life. You open the book talking about your grounding in street epistemology. Could you explain what street epistemology is for those who are new to the concept and how it's this practice has shaped your own worldviews?

Steve Ghikadis 1:39

Yeah, absolutely. So there's a book called A Manual for Creating Atheists by Dr. Peter Bagosian. He didn't want it to be called that. He wanted it to be called How to Have Impossible Conversations. But I guess the title wasn't uh challenging enough for the publisher, so they wanted to be a little bit more harsh. So a practitioner by the name of Anthony Magnibosco read the book. And kind of what he got out of it was you can have these open, cordial conversations with people on the street or just people in your family by asking Socratic questions to get at the heart of why somebody believes what they believe. And there's different ways that you can use this. You can use it in a way to try and encourage people to come to the different conclusion. But the way that I use it is I use it to find out what it is that someone believes so that I can develop an understanding of who they are and what it is that they believe, so that I can uh start building that acceptance and respect for the person.

James Hogson 2:33

Could you give us an example of street epistemology? You know, how you might approach a challenging topic. And some of the questions you might ask that's kind of different to how we typically go about these conversations.

T-Shirt Confrontation And Safer Exits

Steve Ghikadis 2:46

A lot of internet chatter these days is a lot of um accusations or jabbing. So you know, as you see a lot of people say something like, Why do people believe in myths? or like why do you believe in myths? And I think that's off-putting because people are like, I don't believe in myths, these are real stories. So I think a better way to approach it would be to say, what is it that gives your life meaning? And then it kind of gives someone the ability to elaborate on what it is that gives them meaning. Like maybe they find that a certain parable that Jesus said is meaningful to them and they take something from that. And I just find that's a more honest and open way to have conversations.

James Hogson 3:21

And you share an anecdote in the book where you wore a perhaps slightly uh controversial t-shirt at one time, or at least a t-shirt which drew quite an angry response from someone, and you handled that with your learnings in street epistemology. Could you tell the listeners about what happened in that scenario?

Steve Ghikadis 3:42

Yeah. So I was wearing a shirt that said, There is no hell, be kind anyway, which I think is a really nice shirt because it's showing people, you know, that uh they don't need to believe in eternal punishment and also that they can be kind to grandma. I just thought it was a cool shirt to wear. And a guy with the handlebar mustache kind of saw me from across a parking lot when I was doing some errands, and he said, I should just come over there and punch you in the face. And I'm like, excuse me? Like, I had no idea what he was talking about. And he goes, Your shirt, it says there's no hell. I demand an answer for that. And I said, Oh, what does the Bible say about hell? And he said, I don't know, I haven't read it. So just, you know, at that point, I'm like, okay, I don't know if this person is willing to have like an actual open and honest conversation. Because normally at that point, I would say something along the lines of, okay, well, what is it that you think about hell that is uh scary to you, or what gives you concern about things like that? And I also try and remind people of the first Peter 315 verse, which says to, you know, explain what it is that you believe, but do so with gentleness and kindness. So I kind of was going to tie that back to the t-shirt. But then I'm thinking, like, maybe I should just get the hell out of here because this guy doesn't seem to be able to have a cordial conversation. And that's the cool part about this, is that you don't have to put yourself in danger. You don't have to talk to somebody if they're gonna be hostile. The best thing to do at that point would be to cut ties.

James Hogson 5:00

Yeah, that makes sense actually. There's not like a set goal with street epistemology. I mean, when you're going into one of these conversations with someone, what is your aim?

Steve Ghikadis 5:09

That's a really good uh question. And I actually bring this up in my presentations is that it's always good to keep in mind a couple things while you're having these conversations. And one of the questions is what am I getting from this? What is it I'm trying to accomplish? And a lot of times people will try and convert their family members or convert somebody on the street or something like that, which I mean, if that's your aim, like all the power to you, it's a really difficult thing. People usually change their mind when they're presented with other information because you can do something called the backfire effect, which is if you're presenting a bunch of facts and evidence towards someone, like against someone's beliefs, they'll usually dig their heels in harder because they'll want to protect that belief. It's almost like a cherished part of them that they want to protect. So when I go into these conversations, my goal is always to have an open and honest dialogue so that I can understand why the person believes what they believe. And if you can understand why that person does that, a lot of times it's for personal reasons. A lot of people go to church because of the community aspect, not necessarily for the theology. So if you're talking to somebody and you're thinking, like, oh, this person's an idiot because they believe that Jesus was crucified and came back and resurrected and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Maybe the person doesn't even believe that. Maybe the person goes to church because someone asks how their mom is doing and their mom has, you know, survived stage four breast cancer or something like that. Right. So we don't know what people's stories are. We don't know what the reason is for their belief. So the best thing to do is to ask questions. And I think that that's always my goal going into it is to get to know the person.

James Hogson 6:40

There's always something to learn and more understanding to gain when you take that approach as well, to really try to understand, as you say, the underlying reasons and values that are driving people's decisions and motivations.

Mixed Faith Marriage And Shared Values

Steve Ghikadis 6:50

Yeah. And I always talk about the mutual aspect of it too, because if you can develop a mutual understanding. So if somebody, you know, is accusing you of being evil or something, it's better to have that open dialogue with them so they can ask you questions about your belief and you can model that type of questioning and behavior so you can expect them to say to you, what gives your life meaning and purpose? And I'll say, My family, or just different things that, you know, it depends on the day, right? Like my meaning and purpose today is to wake up and play video games all day. You know what I mean? That gives me meaning and purpose. It's a different thing all the time. There's definitely underlying meaning and purpose that you can create for yourself. And it's just a nice thing to have someone ask you the same type of questions and get to know you, and then that's when you can develop the mutual understanding, which will then lead to mutual acceptance and then hopefully eventually mutual respect.

James Hogson 7:40

And the book is very moving, touching, and it's very open. You speak from the heart, encouraging others to express humanism from the heart. And you're you're very open in the book about being in a mixed faith family and a mixed faith marriage. What have you learned about sustaining love and mutual respect when there is that difference in core beliefs?

Disagreeing With Kindness Across Cultures

Steve Ghikadis 8:06

Another really good question. And this is a hard question to answer, even if it's not a religious difference that you have. Any difference causes, I wouldn't even say issues, but just you know, things that come up that you have to discuss and go through. And one of the things that we had to go through was a difference in in religious beliefs. And I was always an atheist. I don't remember a time when I really fully believed in anything supernatural. I mean, I kind of dabbled here and there with different beliefs and different thoughts and things, but I kind of had the freedom to do that because I was raised as a free thinker. Whereas my wife was raised as a Christian, so you know, she didn't go through those different beliefs. So to her, Christianity has always been true. And when I met her, I was also kind of dabbling in. I joined the Masonic Lodge, which is an inherently Christian, and they were going to the United Church of Canada, which is where my wife was going. So it was like a big coincidence. I'm like, oh, maybe there is something to this. I always have an open mind to being presented with evidence that may sway my beliefs in any direction. And when I was starting out to date her, we didn't really have that many differences. And then when it came up to the point of discussing religion, which came quite later, it probably should have come earlier than it did. It actually came about the time that we were about to have our first child. And I kind of had to come out to her and say, you know, I really don't believe this stuff, and hopefully that's okay. And there was a little bit of pushback for a bit because it was a huge shock to her. I mean, it seems like I'm changing who I am, even though I stayed the same person and I had always been this person, she just saw me in a different light. And she told me at the time, actually later on, that if she had known that I was an atheist when we first got together, she might not have given me a second chance. And I think it was just a difference in her thinking at the time. But getting to know me and understanding me mutually, like I understand her, we've really developed a really strong relationship that can withstand that. Now, some of the things that we did do, I read a book called In Faith and In Doubt by Dale McGowan, who is actually a really big hero of mine. And he actually wrote a blurb for the back of my book, a really kind gesture of him to do that. He's a hero of mine since I started going through all of this questioning and um trying to find ways to have cordial conversations. And in his book, he talked to like hundreds of a hundred different couples who were in mixed faith relationships, and some lasted and some didn't. And he gave some tips and strategies on how to develop those strong bonds. And one of them was coming up with like a word cloud. So if you go on the internet and type in word cloud, you can type in a bunch of words that mean something to you in your relationship with your spouse. And we had all these different words up on this big board that were like, you know, love, kindness, partnership, compassion, all those amazing words. And it showed how much we actually have in common. So when I took a step back, I went, wow, we have so much in common that I would say we share about 99% of our beliefs. The only thing we disagree on is where the universe came from. And when you think about it, it's such a small thing on the grand scale because nobody knows the answer. So why argue over it? Where I do know that some couples may struggle because some somebody's view of where the universe came from is a huge thing for them, right? So it depends on the relationship and who you have as a partner.

James Hogson 11:19

Do you have any advice for anyone in similar relationships or potentially with other family members as well, for how to approach those decisions in life or conversations where there is a fundamental difference and how to continue to approach that with understanding, empathy, respect?

Raising Kids With Curiosity And Empathy

Steve Ghikadis 11:38

You're hitting me with all the good questions today. This is awesome. So what I normally say is street epistemology works really well for this because you can have those cordial conversations without causing like the hackles on the back of your neck to raise. So what I normally talk to people about is that, you know, if you do have a difference in opinion on politics or religion or something like that, best thing to do is to approach it with kindness and to see from their perspective, put yourself in their shoes. So you can say, if I say this, what is it that they are gonna feel? So you can start off the conversation by saying something like, I know that we disagree on, say, uh politics in this situation. Can you tell me what it is that you think this policy is really good at providing? Or if it's a religious topic, you can say, you know, I know we disagree on the religion side of this or the theological side of this. What is it that you think that Jesus would do in this situation or say in this situation? And I think that approaching it from diving into their worldview and pulling something that's important to them and giving them the opportunity to explain it. The one thing that I do when I'm talking to people that are of Islamic faith, I'll say, Muhammad, peace be upon him. And as soon as they say that, they go, Whoa, you're respecting our prophet? And it's just showing that level of respect goes a long way. And I'll sometimes I'll touch my heart and say asalamu alaykum, which means peace be upon you, right? So it's just when you're approaching different people, approaching them with something that's agreeing in their culture, or just to open up the dialogue with something that's respectful to their side. I think that goes a long way in providing like the basis for a relationship.

James Hogson 13:15

You state in the book that you think, at least, that children are inherently humanist.

Steve Ghikadis 13:23

What do you mean by that? Yeah, and that's uh kind of a cheeky thing that I say, but I think that the principles of humanism, the empathy, the compassion, the curious mind, like in scientific investigation and looking into just the wonders of the world, I think is very humanistic. And I think that because of our evolutionary history where we've had to get along as a species to progress and to survive and to pass on our genes to the next generation, I think our kids are super lucky to be able to have those genes that we've forged through generations and generations of human beings.

James Hogson 14:01

And as a parent raising two boys in a mixed-based household, how are you able to help them explore philosophy and belief from first principles rather than through ideology?

Steve Ghikadis 14:13

A lot of times I will approach situations with curiosity. And the one thing that Dale McGowan says is that if he could imbue his kids with anything, it would be endless curiosity because curiosity leads to so many different things. It leads to fully understanding someone's situation and being empathetic to that person's situation and putting yourself in somebody's shoes. And you know, we we hear a lot of uh these days, and I know even the American Humanist Association is going with the empathy movement, right? Because empathy is one of those words that now people are attacking as being a bad thing. So I think that we need more empathy in the world. And I think that when we lead with empathy, it shows our kids that they have the ability to do that too. So anytime I see a homeless person on the street or something like that, I'll just say to my kids, like, oh, look at that person on the street. What do you think that happened to have them end up on the street like that? You know, and a lot of times they'll say, like, oh yeah, you know what? They probably tried their hardest to make it in the world and then maybe they had some bad luck or something. And I'll say something along the lines of like, Well, should we go get them a donut or something like that? You know, and then it's just it encourages them to be an empathetic and compassionate person to people who are less fortunate.

Humanist Weddings In Canada Today

James Hogson 15:21

Yeah, that's wonderful. And I I agree, I think the natural curiosity and kind of a learned empathy, I think it's something that children, as they they get older from from being very young, they do start to learn empathy very quickly. And then there it is, it is only in society and outside influences that kind of can interfere in that natural curiosity and empathy that children have for sure. So trying to ensure that is cultivated as much as possible, I think is yeah, certainly great advice. So, as mentioned in the intro, you're also a humanist efficient in Canada. I guess what we would call a celebrant here in the UK. How widely are humanist ceremonies accepted and performed in Canada at the moment?

Steve Ghikadis 16:08

It's kind of a shame, but right now the only province that allows humanist marriages is actually Ontario. So I happen to live in Ontario, so I'm lucky, but I know a lot of officiants and chaplains that are in other provinces that are just waiting for their time to be able to shine. But in Ontario, it's actually a very requested service. I actually have quite a few people within Humanist Canada that are in my province that do weddings on like almost a daily basis, I would say. It's a it's very popular. I get more requests than I can fill, which is a great problem to have. But at the same time, I really want these people to have their marriages and things as well. And one thing that I was actually preparing to do, and luckily it didn't happen, but I know there was a lot of talk in the US about repealing the Gay Marriage Act. So what I was going to do is offer my services for anyone that could get to Ontario, I would do their wedding for free if they were in a in the 2SLGBTQ community. But luckily that hasn't happened yet, but that will be an offer that I do offer is that if anyone needs to be married and you're in that situation, then to find me in Ontario.

James Hogson 17:12

Yeah. Let's hope it's not needed, but yes, if it's a wonderful offer that's available there. And what are some of the most meaningful or distinctive elements that you've seen in uh humanist weddings in practice?

Steve Ghikadis 17:24

Yeah, the coolest part is that it can be completely up to the couple on how they want to get married. But you don't have to stick to tradition. It can be pretty much anything the couple wants it to be. I actually officiated a Dungeons and Dragons style wedding where they had a giant die that they would roll to see who got to do their vows first. And then at the end, too, when they were doing the reception, they were rolling the die to see if the person rolling the die had to go and kiss the couple or if the couple had to kiss based on the number that came up. So it was really cool.

Who Counts As A Humanist

James Hogson 17:52

Yeah, there really is no limits to what people can include. I think that's the wonderful thing about them. And you you share a lot of stories in the book about uh engaging with people of faith in good faith and encountering some of the objections or questions that you get a lot about what it means to be a humanist. Um when uh someone does take the time to listen and understand and learn about what a humanist is, perhaps for the first time. Do you find there is a broad agreement on most of the core principles and moral beliefs?

Morality Without God Misconceptions

Steve Ghikadis 18:26

Yeah, I think there is quite a lot. And that's something that is a controversial topic right now because secular humanism is distinctly non-religious. So, you know, humanism is more of a philosophy, right? It's the principles that we talked about earlier. And I feel that if somebody is of faith background, they can still express those principles as a humanist. Like my wife considers herself to be a Christian humanist. And I've heard other people that they call themselves like a Muslim humanist. And I think that is okay as long as they're putting those principles of humanism above their religious dogma. There are harmful aspects of religion, and as long as they're not practicing the harmful aspects and sticking strictly to the humanistic aspects, then I think that they I don't have a problem with them labeling themselves that. Some other people do have problems with it, and I can understand their concerns, but for myself, firsthand, I've experienced people who consider themselves to be religious humanists, and I would agree to the most part that they can be considered humanists.

James Hogson 19:32

And what are some of the misunderstandings or concerns that you find are most common when it comes to explaining humanism or free thoughts?

Building Bridges Beyond Belief

Steve Ghikadis 19:40

Like I said before, like I've been called evil to my face before, and it's funny because I'll just say, well, I'm kind of diet evil. I'm not fully evil. I like to joke about it with people too, but uh but yeah, I think that's one of the biggest misconceptions is that people think that because you don't believe in the supernatural or you don't have a god, that you can't be moral. And I think that's one of the biggest questions that we get asked a lot is where does your morality come from? And that's kind of like where, you know, where we discuss the evolutionary history of humanity and just other animals in general as well, because there's other animals out there that also act moral because they have to survive and pass on their genes. So I think that's the biggest misconception, is that. And I think that the sometimes the religious leaders who want to hold control, I think they use that as like a all-encompassing term to say that, you know, you can't be moral without a God or without supernatural beliefs.

James Hogson 20:32

So, with everything that you've learned and how you've encapsulated that in the book, with the kind of lessons that you have shared, how can we open more hearts to humanism?

Steve Ghikadis 20:43

I think that's the million-dollar question. And I think that's something that uh a lot of us are working towards. I've been talking about this a lot lately. I think that we're kind of moving into a new era where humanism needs to be at the center of the movement, whereas, you know, new atheism really paved the way for us. I think that the four horsemen were definitely necessary at the time, especially because, you know, it was early 2000s when the World Trade Center was hit and there was a whole bunch of confusion and that type of thing. But I think that we've moved beyond that now and we need to start having more dialogue. We need to start having open and honest conversations with people across the table and incorporating more people of different backgrounds and beliefs into our circles. And I think that if we aim for the progressive people in all walks, and that's basically what I was trying to do with my book, is to show why I don't believe, but also show that if you live your life as a humanist, you still can accomplish a lot and have a moral and genuine, open and honest life with family and friends and just living as a normal human being. And I think that's maybe a message that we can try and spread out so that we can get as many people as possible to help us work towards a better world.

Changing Minds By Checking Evidence

James Hogson 21:55

Love the message. Very powerful. The book is Humanism from the Heart Building Bridges Beyond Belief. Just before we go, we have our standard. Closing question. Steve, what's something which you've changed your mind on and what inspired that change?

Steve Ghikadis 22:09

That is a loaded question and it's I like it. But uh, you know, I I did have a lot of conspiratorial thinking when I grew up. I thought that the uh the Anunnaki, the ancient alien theory was correct because mostly because it was on the history channel, and it was like, you know, oh, if it's on the history channel, it must be part of our history. But the more I looked into the claims that were on the show saying, you know, like this is a a metal pole that uh this metal didn't come from Earth and things like that. And when I looked into the to the actual evidence for it, they were like, well, it's actually just oxidized brass, I think it was. But anyway, yeah, just looking at in into the evidence of the things, it just didn't seem to come to fruition that these claims were actually real. So I was able to overcome that and say, you know what, this is BS.

Reviews Support And Follow Links

James Hogson 22:54

Oh, I share that one with you. When I was younger, I so badly wanted to believe that there had been genuine real interactions with aliens. It was something that I was fascinated by and I truly wanted it to be true. And it was a difficult one to let go of. But thank you so much for sharing that. So Steve Jucadis, thank you so much for joining us on Humanism Now.

Steve Ghikadis 23:12

Thanks for having me.

Humanise Live 23:14

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