Mans Land.
"Men are born to be leaders. Good or bad, every man leads — his family, his business, his body, and his home as the spiritual head.
But in today’s world, that truth feels alien. Taboo. And as we’ve drifted from it, we’ve seen the results: fractured families, broken communities, men uncertain of who they are and what they’re for.
On the land, the challenge is clear — tame the soil, raise the stock, grow the crops. But the hardest battles aren’t in the paddocks. They’re in the pressure cooker of unhappy families, poor seasons, banks at the door, and a body breaking down. That’s when chaos reigns, and the question rises: ‘What’s it all for?’
Too many men try to answer that question without God. But He is the only certainty beyond what we can control.
This is Man’s Land — where we talk about the struggles, the victories, and what it means to lead as men under God’s design."
Mans Land.
Chivalry Through the Eyes of Aussie Farmers
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Have you ever bristled at the term "toxic masculinity"? Steph and I pull no punches in a hard-hitting discussion about this divisive concept and its ripple effects across society. We dissect the complexities of being a protector and provider amidst changing gender expectations and how the narrative surrounding masculinity can lead men to question their intrinsic roles. With a critical eye, we wade through the murky waters of patriarchy and societal norms, aiming to strike a balance in upholding the essence of manhood without falling prey to extremes.
Chivalry isn't dead, at least not in the heart of Australian farming communities, where the dance between masculine manners and feminine appreciation plays out against a backdrop of evolving cultural standards. We explore the tightrope walk between old-fashioned respect and modern feminist perspectives, asking if courtesy is a relic or a testament to one's character. As we share anecdotes from our own experiences and those of our elders, the conversation turns to the need for a nuanced understanding of respect in a world that's constantly redefining gender roles.
Now, let's talk about the hard stuff. The conversation gets raw as we delve into the disturbing realities of sexual assault and the desperate shortfall in accountability and emotional intelligence. We go beyond the surface, discussing how to foster a healthy expression of aggression and the importance of guiding young men through the maze of emotions in a way that prevents violence. We don't shy away from the pressing issues men face, from the silent crisis of male suicide to the deep impact of fatherhood on empowering our daughters. Through our stories and insights, we aim to illuminate the struggles and triumphs that define men's journey in today's society. Join Steph and me as we tackle these critical conversations, seeking a future where being a man is celebrated and thoughtfully understood.
Hi, I'm Joshua Boroski and welcome to Man's Land, a podcast dedicated to the struggles and celebrations of men of the land. Whether you're in a truck, track the ute or just kick it back at home, buckle up, as Steph and I act as a married duo to cover some deep conversations across farming, family, faith and fitness, tolerating some challenging discussions that are essential for men of the land. Toxic masculinity that's a buzzword or is it? And I think that's, I think, something that I mean we've been hearing a lot about this whole toxic masculinity over the last five years now and at the height of its whole, the whole gig, with well, conversations being headed around the behaviors of men in particular, and boys in schools and things like that. This phrase was thrown around a lot thrown around by teachers, by politicians, by the media. So is there any basis to it? And this is a question I'd really like to ask you, Steph, is what do you think toxic masculinity actually is Like? Can you give us a little bit of a download Like do you think there's?
Speaker 2anything in it. Way to throw me in the deep end.
Speaker 1I am going to.
Speaker 2I was literally going to say to you. I'm not even sure that I understand what people would coin as toxic masculinity now, but just going off my gut, I suppose it's the idea of the patriarchy. I suppose it's the idea of men ruling a society or being leaders or being in control and women not having and I'm using air quotes equal opportunity in life.
Speaker 1So it's like there's like the pay gap and the decent of that, I think so, isn't it?
Speaker 2And they're the underrepresentation of women in certain jobs.
Speaker 1And then I suppose, Are these a result of toxic masculinity or are they?
Speaker 2I don't know, I'm just spitballing here because I have never really delved into the term itself and what that is today, like what it's recognized as today.
Speaker 2I'm just going off how I would possibly see it if I was to say, ok, what is toxic masculinity? Or no, sorry, not necessarily what I see, but maybe what society is saying that it is. But I also think it's assuming that boys are always violent. It's saying that it's bad that boys are aggressive or like as in young boys, or it's bad that they like to maybe settle things by having a fisticuff fight. Maybe that's what people coin is toxic masculinity, all those kinds of things.
Speaker 1So you personally don't really have much of a take on that. When you think of toxic masculinity, Think of buzzword yeah.
Speaker 2I really am like. Every time I hear it, I just get annoyed. And I'm like I can't deal with that conversation, so I haven't actually looked into the way that why, why do you?
Speaker 1why do you find yourself like just irritated by the conversation?
Speaker 2Because I, because I am devastated at the demise of masculinity in our society and I believe that that is part of the reason that that's happened.
Speaker 1What is that?
Speaker 2That, that this whole buzz around toxic masculinity has pushed men to feel that they can't be men anymore and that they shouldn't protect women and that they shouldn't open a door for them or be the stronger of the two sexes physically. You know, I think that all of those things that I really, I guess was incredibly attracted to you when we first met, I slowly been stolen by young boys being taught that, if they naturally feel that way, that that's wrong. You know, and I actually just said to Harry today because he punched our nine year old in the face, but not intentionally, and I was like I'm not even sure what this is for, Just very wrong listening Sock to one in the face and I straight away said to him you do not hit girls. You know, boys do not hit girls. And Katie was kind of countering that a little bit and I was confronted by that because she's like no Mom, unless it's a bad girl, you don't hit girls, even though I know it is.
Speaker 1in this circumstance you definitely didn't have the physical advantage, but you know what I mean.
Speaker 2It's sort of I. You know. I naturally went to that. Hang on a second. There is an order.
Speaker 2There should be a specific order here and you've just overstepped that, keeping in mind, he's just a little boy, but I wanted to instill that straight away in him, and I didn't want it to be clouded and I didn't want it to be like oh, unless she's sticking up for herself, then it's okay for you to sock her one, you know. Or if she wants to have a punch on with you, that's fine. It just. There's just no room for that in my mind. There should be an order.
Speaker 2His job should be to protect not to harm and so I just went there straight away and I believe that this degradation of the beautiful part of what it means to be a man and what that incredible strength that men have been given is being taken apart by this toxic masculinity being thrown around or being taught.
Speaker 1So it's sort of like a so like, so, jumbling all that together into the fruit bowl salad of what we're looking at here. It's this whole idea, like this ongoing thread of you know the patriarchy, the like, the gender inequalities and and everything like that. But then it's also about, you know, aggression in boys and men. It's about you know the you know the stats that come out about violent crimes. That's all by men. It's about you know whether we should make it be made, because this is what I've heard a lot of is that we should be making boys more like girls, and I think this is this is sort of really starting to come at this point from what I'm gauging. Is it starting to flip back around?
Speaker 2But do you really think that people, the majority of people, think that no, that boys should be made more like girls? Not at all. I think that.
Speaker 1I think that I think the vast majority of the population is absolutely sick to death and I think that I think that I think that what I think, especially in the older generations, looking in and seeing what's happening here. I was watching this thing with the, with this, this, this vet, and he was like witnessing some of the things that was happening and sort of like the work society and all the, all that sort of jazz going on inside of the states and and he was just crying like he was just saying For all, like all the boys that went over and fought in World War two, this is what has happened. Our country's gone to hell and it's sort of like it's a strange twisted demise as society sort of almost outgrown itself and it's its ability to have everything and so they look for things, or it's become very misguided in so many principles and so many ways, and masculinity for one. I mean masculinity is just part of you know, it's part of us. You're masculine, you're feminine. I don't think there's a toxic masculinity as much as toxic femininity.
Speaker 2Yeah.
Speaker 1I think it's a coin phrase that was like sort of attributed to a stereotype character of guys in jail that were stabbing each other to death before breakfast.
Speaker 2Yeah, I think there is such thing as toxic masculinity.
Speaker 1No, I don't think there is.
Speaker 2Well, I think there is men abusing their power.
Speaker 1Well, that's different, then that's a toxic man.
Speaker 2Yeah, okay.
Speaker 1Okay, so you've got a toxic person.
Speaker 2Yeah.
Speaker 1So like you could have a toxic woman.
Speaker 2Yes.
Speaker 1Is you're going to say that there's toxic femininity?
Speaker 2Well, there is.
Speaker 1Well, no, there's not. It's just a toxic woman.
Speaker 2Well, I mean no, because no, this is actually. It's a really good point. It is the masculine part that sets it. It sets it to be different from the feminine part, because females can use their femininity against you and vice versa. So it's to say it's toxic masculinity or it's toxic femininity. Either way, I understand that you're saying it is just toxic in general, but the traits are very specific.
Speaker 1Yeah, but I think it's just because you've got women and men.
Speaker 2Yeah, well, I mean, I just think, like how long is the piece of straight?
Speaker 1And I think that all we're doing here is just putting, like you're putting coin terms to a man or a woman Like you're a toxic person. Yeah, okay, man is toxic, he's violent, he's abusive, he's highly aggressive, he's out of control. Okay, and that would fit the mold for toxic masculinity to be the thing, but it's not. It's just that he's a man with a whole lot of crap going on in his life that has arrived at this point where he doesn't have control of his own faculties in any way that he can function inside of society appropriately, and his behaviors are erratic and damaging. So therefore, it's like, yeah, he brings toxicity, not good Toxicity, toxicity, toxicity.
Speaker 1You got it Into the, into the fold, into the area. Yeah, so for a woman, woman comes in, she's totally irate, you know, bringing in all sorts of bipolar craziness like absolute blender of emotions that undermines and and tears down the people around her. You know, manipulates, you know she's, you know she's, you know she's, you know she's. The same sort of gig has had, whatever's happened in the past that has made her be the way she is, and now her behaviors are causing absolute chaos in the bounds in a toxic manner. So I think that the coin phrase of toxic masculinity, which is the one we focus on, because that's the one that's thrown around, because it's been a war against there's the war against men.
Speaker 2Yes.
Speaker 1Funny that the war against men has actually flipped and been a war against women. Because you know, men, part of our job is to protect our women. It's, it's part of that. It's it's up for us to cherish and love, nurture and and to to be loyal to you. And yet, you know, as we tear down those masculine traits and that's like that real, spiritual, solid, grounded, masculine man we tear him down all of a sudden. What have you got to protect the feminine in women? You can't. And then, as we've said before, they've then gone, flip and become masculine because nobody else is going to do it. That's right. So you've got women trying to take control over everything and and shutting down as a result of that, which is really sad. But that's, that's the way that that society has sort of decided, that we're going to go.
Speaker 2But I think there's a beautiful uprising too. I heard Charlie Kirk speak about this and he said the most encouraging thing is young, like teenage boys, who are incredibly onto this and they know that that they've been lied to and they're coming back.
Speaker 1Well, that's. I mean, that's really encouraging, isn't it? Massively, I wonder how? To what extent, because you've probably only got a fraction of them, whilst the rest are sort of like just head down in phones trying to sedate the fact that they're totally, utterly confused as to whether they're this or that and they're being pushed in this certain direction.
Speaker 2That is true. I think there's a lot of young boys who don't have strong male role models because of, maybe a result of all of this that we're talking about. And so they're being led by fathers or father figures who don't really know where they stand.
Speaker 1Well, they're not being led at all, and the state leads them.
Speaker 2Yeah.
Speaker 1And whatever agenda is occurring at the time leads them. So they basically just, they just follow whatever popular culture is.
Speaker 2This is actually what I, why I love farming and why I love farmers in general, because when I do see farmers I still feel that hope of what the old school was. It's part of what attracted me to you. When I first met you, you pulled the chair out for me, you opened doors for me, you, you used to do this thing where you walked on the outside of me if I was on a street lest we get hit by a car, and you would go down for it.
Speaker 1What do you mean? What do you mean? I used to.
Masculine Manners and Feminine Appreciation
Speaker 2I'm just remembering back to that time when I first met you and I was kind of like who is this guy? You know who is this guy who does these shiver of things which I hadn't experienced in my own mates who I grew up on the coast with. It just wasn't there, it wasn't the same. And I still feel that from the male community, in farming communities, men still take their hat off to say hello to me. They still apologize if they swear in front of me. They still shake my hand. There are these beautiful I'm going to say old school.
Speaker 1But they're just manners.
Speaker 2Manners yeah, they are just manners, but gosh, they're such a masculine way of having manners. They're such a nurturing of women way of just expressing themselves. It's just the little things. It's picking up and carrying your bags for you. I've had so many men do that for me, in just the most kindest way, like looking at me as if I was a daughter or you know their wife, in the hopes that someone else would treat their wife with the same kindness.
Speaker 2Or changing a tire for me on the side of the road, whatever it is that, to me, still runs so strong in the farming man of Australia.
Speaker 1Yeah, well, I hope it continues. I hope it keeps rolling in that direction, because we've got an aging farming population.
Speaker 2Yes, I do feel like it comes from your dad's friends.
Speaker 1It does, it comes from the older generation, not to say that our generation doesn't still hold tight to a certain amount of it as well. But I think, as these things sort of happen, and what happens is you get a lot of social pressures moving on the angles and you get a certain you know, things become distracted or diluted. Yeah, but they were taught.
Speaker 2They were taught by those grassroots.
Speaker 1Yeah.
Speaker 2You know you talk about young boys today not having strong masculine leadership and I really see a difference in that in the farming community.
Speaker 1Yeah, I think that's definitely worth appreciating.
Speaker 2Yeah, all of you boys were taught by these good men you know, or so many of you, because I think of all of my girlfriend's husbands and I would think any one of them would do that for me today. Still, I know, you know and I know if something happened to you or you weren't here, I could absolutely pick up the phone.
Speaker 1I think, a part of that as well as a perpetuation of it as well within. You know, so long as that culture remains as a standard and it should do, it should be a standard I think all boys should learn these things. These traits should be definitely upheld and fathers should be teaching their sons and showing them by their behaviors how that sort of thing goes. You know, like you do, let you know. We were playing tennis over in Bog at the other day with with fewer friends, and I know tennis competition player at all the imagination but they're telling us about you know that you get scored on the etiquette as well, like court etiquette. I'm like what is, what is this court etiquette?
Speaker 2I have no idea, what does it?
Speaker 1mean, you know, but it was basically you. You know, you don't cross the net before the ladies have crossed the net first. You make sure that you don't let the. You know you don't leave the court until the ladies have gone first. It's like just ladies before gentlemen. Yeah, that's it, and I'm like right. Okay, let's do that. Yeah, and let's make sure that remains.
Speaker 2And so it's still upheld.
Speaker 1Yeah, it is still upheld, but it's not the same degree. It used to be a big part of it. Yeah, now it's not. It's like all that old fashioned stuff. No, that old fashioned stuff had good roots. Yeah, you know, it was just about cherishing the feminine figure.
Speaker 2I bet some women would be offended by it today.
Speaker 1Absolutely they would.
Speaker 2Remember when we were out in that pub and you swore and that, and then you apologize. Oh, yes, and that young woman was so offended yeah massively.
Speaker 1I apologize because my bad language is true and I do swear. It's very naughty, but it was quite startling that as I made an apology for swearing in front of the ladies like that, yeah, she was like ready to roll out the red carpet for a bit of an enslavement event, but you know, that's, that's it. Like you get. You get confronted by that.
Speaker 2Well, and this is what happens to young men. So that's okay, what we were like 30. Yeah. When that happened and not even not even maybe, and you already feel you know yourself. You knew yourself so well. You were sort of like no, I will apologize, excuse me, you had no, there was no movement for you. No so many young men today would go oh okay, I don't want to offend you. Yeah, where do I go from?
Speaker 1Yeah, because if you get somebody who comes along and says, hey, no, that's outdated. It's outdated, yeah, you know like, well, where does she really die? Where does it begin? What happened? You know how did that? How did you determine that became outdated? Oh, that's because you know it's. You know, with the feminist movement and everything like that, you know women want to equal us. I'm sure she like get your equal rights, that's fine. But you know, that doesn't mean that a man can't cherish the feminine figure of a woman in his behaviors, which is to show respect and to show a quarterly, a quarterly manner towards them in every respect.
Speaker 2But I think, like anything in society around these issues, they've just gone too far one way.
Speaker 1Yeah.
Speaker 2Because, of course, there has been abuse, there has been a an overreach of power, and women have said no, we've had enough of that, that is enough. Now you can no longer stare blatantly at our boobs and get away with stuff like that.
Sexual Assault and Lack of Accountability
Speaker 2You can no longer grab us on the backside as we walk past and think that's okay, and I'm 100% on board with that, because I've been subject to that kind of behavior many, many times in my young life, even in my professional teaching career. I had that happen and I had nowhere to go, absolutely nowhere to go. Even when I reported it, it was really nobody knew what to do about it.
Speaker 2I didn't even know what to do about it I didn't even know to say Well, look, I don't want the man's career to be ended and his family life to be shattered. But also, no, it's not okay that he groped me in front of 30 class students, unbeknownst to them, and I stood there completely stunned, not knowing what to do, and just in shock, I think. And then, when I finally worked up the courage to say something about it, it was like Are you sure?
Speaker 1Yeah, I think a lot of that's got to do with the passivity in men as well. I think it really does Like there's a real passivity inside of like if men, like if you've got men who are prepared to be aggressive, like aggressive in the right manner, in the right circumstance if you hadn't a man who was prepared to do that and who had the moral strength and character to defend you, okay, in that moment that man would have definitely thought twice before doing that, because if he was surrounded by men who wouldn't stand for that behavior, he would be like if I do that, I risk my skin.
Speaker 2Yes, I felt as though nobody was going to call him to account.
Speaker 1And that's the issue is that there was nobody in the area In that moment. That's when I wanted my mind shining armor to come and say hey, we don't accept that.
Speaker 2We're going to take you out the back and rough you up a bit. Like really I didn't want to destroy his life, but I didn't want him to think that he could do that no, exactly. And yet he did. And even when I went to another man to ask for help, I was questioned. I was like said Are you sure?
Speaker 1And this is the other issue as well is because it goes both ways You've got, you've got like you've got the cry wolf aspect to it as well, which is what happens when Well that's talking about what you were saying before.
Speaker 2When they're like okay, toxic, feminine. Yeah, yeah, exactly Knowing that it only takes an accusation like that to bring down somebody's entire life.
Speaker 1So you've got this, you've got this, like the amount of damage that can happen to a man if a girl cries wolf on something like that for attention, or the fact that she didn't get away, or whatever. It might be Not saying it happens very often, but it does happen, and when that happens, a man's life is destroyed, totally destroyed. So you go okay, how do you manage that? Well, this is the issue. What is it? Is it a masculine issue? Is it a feminine issue? No, it's a moral issue. It's the fact that you've got people putting stock in things like you know, promiscuity, promiscuity and and the, the significance that's gained from either sleeping around or being popular, or whatever it might be that actually drops them into these circumstances, that you know it erodes their, their ethics in the moment. And then you've got to. Then you've got the, the, the, the hang on.
Speaker 2We need to clarify that because that's a very broad brush. That's not like. That's not the circumstance I was in. No, no, it's not completely taken by surprise, completely had obviously not provoked the situation at all and I know the scary thing is I know so many women who have been in the same situation way worse.
Speaker 1I'm not defending him at all, don't. Don't get me right wrong there at all.
Speaker 2There's different circumstances, but you're saying like there's, there, is there's like this there's this gray area.
Speaker 1No, no, it's not a gray area, it's black and white. He, he, was prepared to do the wrong thing because all he was after was his own lustful nature. He was just like I want to grab some. And he did it, and he knew he could get away with it. Why? Because it made him feel powerful. You know and it was in that immediate powerful that was a toxic act as a result of, I don't know, maybe because he's weak, as a result of his fears, or whatever it might be that he's struggling with in his world, that that made him behave in such a manner. And you think where, where were the boundaries of your thought process before you? Before you, you followed through with that action. You've ignored them entirely.
Speaker 2Yeah, but I think you made a really good point before in saying, because we've had this breakdown of morals in society in general and we've also had a breakdown of protective masculinity, he knew he could get away with it, that's right.
Speaker 2And nobody held him to account, not in the situation. If there were other men watching on and they saw it, nobody held him to account. And also, when I reported it, nobody held him to account. And I know it's not the first time he's done it actually, so it's devastating that this is the effect that this whole movement, I suppose, is having on our society, because we're losing that line, we're losing that moral structure, and it's because of a whole plethora of things.
Speaker 1Well, you look at the kids of today like you look at boys, and look at the kids these days and they're plastered to screens and they're more discerning about the way that they're talking in a politically correct manner and or whether they're being accepting and diverse enough. Over boys, you should be learning how to fight. Like you should be actually learning how to be physical and channeling aggression, violence, your boisterousness, your energy into a skill that you can control and command and all of the structures that surround that with responsibility, and then using that for good. Like you should have that capacity.
Speaker 2Yeah you should be dangerous.
Speaker 1You know, you look at what's happening over overseas in some countries. Look what's happening over in Russia. Boys over in Russia are boxing in like third grade, fourth grade. They're learning the rudimentaries and they're under the tutelage of men, you know, and they're showing them how and the sportsmanship involved and everything like that, so that when they grow up they know how to do it. But they also know that there's an etiquette to it and that you don't go in the street and then keep the living daylights out of them after they're on the ground Just because you want to release the rage and the feelings of rage and that are associated with it and to make yourself feel and be dangerous. But you go way over the bounds.
Speaker 2Like you think they're just going to pop back up like it's a video game.
Speaker 1Well, yeah, there's that Like and also not being able to reel it back in.
Speaker 2Yeah, you know, when I used to teach at the high school, there was an indigenous group of like men who would lead the younger indigenous boys and if there was ever a problem, that's what they would do they would take them down to the Sandy Banks and they would teach them how to fight.
Speaker 1Or they let them have a fight.
Speaker 2They would let them have a fight, but they would teach them, though there was definitely rules, Rules yeah. There was rules, there was etiquette, there was things they had to follow, yeah, and it was always once it was done.
Speaker 1It was done. It was done yeah.
Speaker 2And I was, you know. I thought that was amazing that they, that they took the time to do that with these young boys.
Speaker 1But that would be very, very, a very contentious issue these days, because everybody sees violence as bad.
Speaker 2Well, interestingly, because they're indigenous, they were allowed to do it.
Speaker 1Yeah right.
Speaker 2Like it was. It was always pushed as it's part of our culture.
Speaker 1Why yeah?
Speaker 2So we're allowed to do this, and so, and it happened.
Speaker 1Because we used to do the same thing boarding school.
Speaker 2Yeah.
Speaker 1But it wasn't. It was nowhere like near the the same, like it wasn't, it wasn't allowed.
Speaker 2It wasn't organized.
Speaker 1It wasn't organized, it was organized. It was organized by the seniors and stuff like that. They, they kept an eye on us and made sure that it was all run strict. And then when it was done, it was done and there was all the etiquette and everything like that that went along with it.
Speaker 2But it was seniors kind of doing the wrong thing?
Speaker 1It was absolutely. Yeah, you get caught by the wrong teacher, you're in trouble.
Speaker 2You know this was adult men.
Speaker 1Yeah.
Speaker 2Teaching young boys Right. This is how we're going to sort this out. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1And I think that that's what's required is that there needs to be a leadership in in how to address that, because violence is going to happen and just because you're not, just because you you wipe, you know like physical conflict off the map and you say it's bad, doesn't mean that they're not going to react as a result of their emotions and their feelings boiling up and becoming such a driving factor in their lives.
Speaker 2It's just going to happen. They're going to snap but they're not going to have any knowledge around how to deal with that.
Speaker 1No, not, and not only that they're going to have, no, they're going to use what force comes to bear comes to mind in a moment and a snap decision that will cause damage Like and to who? Well, what are the times? It's to women, the ones that they're supposed to be protecting.
Speaker 2Well, just on that, I think that is the argument, although I know we've gone too far the other way, but it's the argument for trying at least to help men feel their feelings. Because, you know, we do have a couple of generations back, or a few generations back, men who weren't taught to feel their feelings and to just suppress things and put them in a box and compartmentalize and leave it there. And so we had, you know, still a bad reaction happening from those kinds of things men coming back from the war not knowing how to cope with that, and then it coming out in, you know, alcoholism, violence against their partners, whatever it was and it was that was happening as a result of, you know, quashing men's feelings.
Speaker 2And so we just seem to get it wrong both ways. Well, I don't think that's true. I disagree.
Speaker 1I don't think that we've gone too far one way. I think that we've just entered into a new world of sedation and making ourselves victims. It's not, it's not anything to do with feelings at all. I think it's. It's put into, like people put the feelings game into into that, that very pocket of oh, you know, you're a lofty, softy sort of, you know, whatever cloud. Okay, there's no structure to it. Oh, it's odd, that deep stuff, I don't want to go there. Yeah, like, let's, let's throw that away. That's, you know, that's shit, but, um, apologize for that. Um, it's, it's the it's. It's not addressing the issues, like when you're addressing your feelings, when you're actually going to the roots of why you feel the way you feel. Most men can't even articulate what the feelings are. They don't even know. There's no going too far the other way. We never have, like, we haven't done it for such a long time. These you say, the guys who are in touch with their feelings, you know, are the new age sensitive guy. Not true.
Speaker 2Not true.
Speaker 1The guy that's in touch with his feelings is the man who sits with a presence, who is grounded, who, who can, uh, who, when put into a space of chaos, he's not losing his shit, he knows what his capacity is and he's certain in that, whereas the new age sensitive guy cries at a sunset, all right, he's just led by his emotions in entirety, and that's that's the thing that's promoted, or let your emotions run free? No, your emotions are a result of unfelt feelings. Your emotions are the reaction to whatever is happening in your environment right now.
Speaker 2So you're saying people are being told just to feel whatever they feel, but no one's been given the skills as to know what to do with that. That's right In an appropriate way.
Speaker 1Nobody's, nobody's even leading men and boys into the, the area of, um, like the structure of, of feelings, like there's, there's a few groups that are trying to do this. Okay, um, and they're finding it's an enormous issue, huge. It's generations old, yes, and as it comes here today, you know a lot of the young boys. What we do is we've just learnt to just pack it away. Um, you've either got them packed away and they're, and they're, and the ones that you know, that these new age sensitive guys and, and you know, with the prolifer of woke ism and and and a skyrocketing homosexuality, a gig that's going on as well. A lot of unfelt feelings, huge amount of drug abuse, massive amount of of, of, you know, just sexual activity.
Speaker 2And fatherless.
Speaker 1Absolutely Leadless. No, this is chaos and it's a result of emotions being let loose, as a result of unfelt feelings and no actual way. There's no. There's no, god, there's no, anything like nothing. What are you going to do? Are you just do what feels good and do more of it? How can it be wrong if it feels so right? That kind of thing, no, no feelings will send you, will absolutely set you on a straight path. There's no two ways about it. You've got to know what those feelings mean.
Speaker 1Why, why do I feel so angry? It's, like you know, being in family, business partnerships and things like that, it is a constant. It's a constant game. You don't stop addressing the feelings that come up. Like you know, getting angry today, got angry today. It's the skill of going. Anger is the emotion. Anger, like like, the anger is the feeling. The emotion is the way I reacted to what happens. Ok, but why am I angry about that? What was it that triggered me? What do I do about that? Like, where's the story that pre-framed that kind of behavior? Now I know that that's a story. At least I have a place to go to and start working on that. Majority of guys don't have that. Majority of guys are more likely to just go yeah, just pack it away in a box and put it in a great, vast garage of packed away boxes that are always there.
Speaker 2Well, which I think we've spoken about before it's always there and it usually leaks out onto your family.
Speaker 1Yeah.
Speaker 2Onto your wife, onto the people you love the most.
Speaker 1That's right. Can I just drink water?
Speaker 2I was like what are you pointing at?
Speaker 1I'm just pointing at your cup.
Speaker 2That's funny. No, but no, give it back. Oh sorry you can put it in the middle.
Speaker 1I'll put it in the middle again.
Speaker 2But it's you know, it's true, and we've spoken about that before, and this is what so many families experience, and I know we've been there. But with men who are not sure what to do with themselves they have no idea what to do themselves Then you end up with these really hostile home situations.
Speaker 1Yeah.
Speaker 2Like not hostile, but it's like then the wife is training on eggshells.
Speaker 1You've got all the things that come with like, like weighing, weighing down on, on on the woman of the household, like to try and keep it all together, which is not what she's meant to be doing. You know that's not what a lead woman looks like it turns to chaos, you know. So it's no wonder that there is so many chaotic women who are looking for the wrong things in men, or they're going in these directions that you know seem more masculine than anything else. Well, it's because there's such a like a leadership inside of young men men in general because they're not prepared to feel their feelings and actually recognize some of the wounds that they've sustained through their experience. And hey, it's okay, you can be able to forgive. Forgive whatever happened, then forgive what it is that you just did, okay, recognize grace and then move forward from there. But it's it's huge.
Speaker 1It's a sin problem, it's a deep problem.
Speaker 2Yeah, I like that you said you know these guys who are trying to do this are realizing how massive this task is. Yeah, how far the tendrils have spread.
Speaker 1Look when, when, like working, working along with with Warrior Week and and seeing what the men do, like like they held space for me. They had held space so that I had to face my feelings. Not easy, really hard, hardest thing you'll ever do. You know it's. You know. Some guys say you know, like physical things, some of the physical things, really hard, hardest thing you ever do, whatever. Uh-uh, Hardest thing you'll ever do is really facing the mirror and being the hell of a heck of exposed, like totally You're naked and and and you know, trying not to cover up all the crap that you know you're guilty of. You know of all the, of all the things that you know that you're lacking in, or you feel like you're lacking in, and then facing those stories head on. That's really hard to do, but it's, it's so necessary.
Speaker 1And the society in the West of today is crumbling because it's not being addressed, it's not being done. Like we're wondering why, why all these? You know why these young boys, all soy boys and things like that? Well, it's because their dads aren't even there. So because they, they've got you know there's. They're being led, these boys being led by unled women who have an absolute chip on their shoulder against all men. How are they going to? What are they going to turn their boys into? They're going to turn them into warriors. They're going to turn them into women, as much as they possibly can. Why? Because there's a very valid story that plays in the mind of the of these girls that says man will hurt us.
Addressing Issues Facing Men and Society
Speaker 1They will let you down, they will let you down. They are liars, they are cheats, they are this, they are that, they're not wrong. It happens and then they cause chaos. And then they, you know, they, they, they go into another man's life and they cause absolute turmoil as a result. Far out, what a big problem we have. But there are ways, there are absolutely ways, effective ways, effective means to be able to address it. That's good.
Speaker 2Cause I feel like it's not looking great for us.
Speaker 1Yeah, I know.
Speaker 2Yeah, exactly, it's not looking great for men in general.
Speaker 1But it just, it, just sort of it always it always it always seems to come come down to when the man realises his desperation, his desperate state. Then it's like okay, now what do I do? You know, we all have to hit the bottom of the pit, it's like. And then you're feeling lost and like it's. And it doesn't matter how rich you are, or or or your your business, how business elite you are, you can get to the edge of the rainbow and realise that there isn't anything else other than the pot of gold. There's nothing else there. And then you say to yourself what's all this for? That's going to put you in a pretty big headspin pretty quick. Or you're the guy who can't stop drinking, you know 10 to 12 beers a night, every night, and just to sedate the pain of whatever it is that's going on in your life. You might have other things in order.
Speaker 2Even four beers a night.
Speaker 1Well, it doesn't matter. Whatever it is Okay, whatever it is to try and to take the, take the, to numb the, the edge off. You know you could be on that side of things, but you know it's. It's when you hit that rock bottom that you. Then you look up and you go what am I? What is all this about? If you're lucky, if you're lucky enough to actually ask that question, to be willing to at least have a peep in the mirror.
Speaker 2Yeah, I was going to say because so many men aren't willing to look in the mirror.
Speaker 1And that's why so many men off themselves, that's why so many men take that path.
Speaker 2It's so prevalent, it's massive.
Speaker 1And it's, I don't it's. It's tragic, it's what it is. It's tragic Because what they leave behind is Well it's their family's problem and and it's sad, but it's something that is is it's to Buddha talk about, even though it is it happens all the time. It's so and it's becoming in younger men all the time.
Speaker 2And it's so huge in Australia. A friend of ours was telling me that if you know that on the roads, for example in Australia, you lose a certain amount of people every year, yeah, I can't remember what the number is, but it's three times that to suicide.
Speaker 1Yeah, really.
Speaker 2Did you know that?
Speaker 1No, I didn't know that.
Speaker 2And yet the money we spend on you know, I don't know revenue raising or speaking about awareness of safety on roads and everything is massive in comparison to the money we spend on helping people in this situation. It is such a huge problem in Australia, so huge in the farming community, and yet it's, like you said, it's just to do to talk about it.
Speaker 2And actually we even need to do a whole podcast just on that topic and speak to, you know, some men in the community who have experienced with this kind of thing, because it's it's just so prevalent and people don't know. People actually don't know, and it's not just men, this is, you know, it's young people, young young people. Like when I was teaching, we lost a beautiful girl in Union to suicide Just devastating, and you know, and people, you know, people always say we just didn't understand. They had everything going for them. She was one of those girls, you know, absolutely stunning to look at, beautiful, singing voice, you know, so popular, so many friends. But she got really badly bullied online and no one knew and Monday she just took her own life.
Speaker 1And that's the thing it's like it's not.
Speaker 2She has no resolve of her own. No, you know no Nothing there that told her that she was precious and that she was loved, and that she was a child of God, and that which is, which really is, a father's job.
Speaker 1Yeah, it really is, it is. It's a father's job to make sure that their daughters feel that and know that intrinsically, that they are valuable, that they are loved, that you know that they are important to the most important man in their lives, which is their dad. And yet it's you know, it's not even considered. This is coming from a book called Strong Father, strong Daughters. I'm just going to look up who writes it and I'll get back to you. But this, this book, really speaks to this issue, especially in in in daughters. But it's the fathering of daughters. Because if you, if, if we drop the ball there with our young girls as men, then we're just opening the floodgates for society to basically lead them in whatever is speaking loudest at the time, because women are very susceptible to being led by social, social movement Like it's whatever is popular, yeah, strong father. So it's yeah, meg Meeker, yeah, meg Meeker. Strong Father, strong Daughters. It's a, it's an amazing book. I highly recommend it. If you're a man that's got daughters, young daughters at any age, then definitely consider this book, definitely have a look.
Speaker 1I couldn't recommend it highly enough but because it's startling. The statistics are startling. What's happening to our girls is shocking. The what, what, what girls go through from you know, from when they're just little, like their little nine year olds, especially if you're in in in suburbia it's not as prevalent out here but or, depending on how, you know what your household's like. But when they're going away to boarding school, all of that it's like have you, have you given her the, the foundations that will see her thrive regardless of the environment? Will she know that her dad cherishes her? I mean, that's that's your masculinity that you want to display, that you want to uphold, that you want to build and grow. That's the kind of masculinity that protects and provides a life and a legacy for the children going forward. That's what we need to be promoting, not this segregation of like.
Speaker 1You know all, its men versus women, and it's, you know, whatever. You know like. I hate men, I hate women like this, and there's a lot of that going on. I've spoken about that before, but you know it's prevalent as anything. You just you know, jump on YouTube or or Instagram or something like that, and you'll see. It's like men downing women, women downing men as his battle, back and forth, and like gosh. When did this? When did we become such enemies? Yeah, you know, when did, when did we?
Speaker 2when did we stop being teammates?
Speaker 1Now, when do we allow this agent to divide us? So we're meant to be together on how we raise our kids, how we do life. We're meant to help each other. You're meant to help us, but instead it's. It's like oh no, we need to make the boys more like girls so that the girls can be more like boys.
Speaker 2Instead of celebrating what makes us different.
Speaker 1The way God made us. No, we tear him clean out of the way he's not even considered. I mean, if you, if you can bring your children, your children, up, young girls and boys, with the knowledge of God and God's attributes, like study showed the strength that sits in the character of these children, will see them through some of the toughest times in their lives, and they do it well. Like go and look, go and see, yeah, okay, everyone's like dragging on Christianity. There are so many shows out there now that just destroy Christianity. God, everything like that, everyone goes, you know, like the. There's just it's, it's just crumbling at the moment. But look at where our society is going as well. It's crumbling and everyone's going oh, something's got to change, yeah, yeah. And everyone's got to start picking up the word again. Everyone's got to start reading his word with the intention of understanding who he is and what he wants for us.
Speaker 2And how he intended us to be.
Speaker 1Yeah, yeah, so that we stop making it about ourselves, we stop being these victims that constantly just repeat our bad behaviors and bad habits, we start looking at how we can address our feelings and we stop being so damn proud about it and recognize it, unless we want to put ourselves and our families in a state of absolute desperation. Go find someone, go find a group like Warrior Week that'll actually lead you there. Make sure it's Christian Senate. That's my personal advice, cause if it ain't Christ centered, then it's going to lead you up another path.
Speaker 2Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1And I know that's probably going to get a whole lot of, but I don't give a damn.
Speaker 2I think that's a good wrap.
Speaker 1Okay, cool.
Speaker 2It's a very good conversation to have.
Speaker 1I think it's a huge conversation. It's a deep one.
Speaker 2Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1But I think, yeah, I think we've spared what we're going to spend today and and and we'll see everybody next, next week, for next week's conversation. Yeah, thanks for listening, guys. Thank you, and that's a wrap for today. If you enjoyed our conversation and if you're a man that feels like you or someone you know is struggling inside the areas of relationships, be that within their family, their faith, their fitness or inside the business, then go to sovereignsonscomau and check out the Crucible program Until next week, have a great day and appreciate you showing up. This is Steph and Josh signing off and we'll catch you next time.
