Mans Land.
"Men are born to be leaders. Good or bad, every man leads — his family, his business, his body, and his home as the spiritual head.
But in today’s world, that truth feels alien. Taboo. And as we’ve drifted from it, we’ve seen the results: fractured families, broken communities, men uncertain of who they are and what they’re for.
On the land, the challenge is clear — tame the soil, raise the stock, grow the crops. But the hardest battles aren’t in the paddocks. They’re in the pressure cooker of unhappy families, poor seasons, banks at the door, and a body breaking down. That’s when chaos reigns, and the question rises: ‘What’s it all for?’
Too many men try to answer that question without God. But He is the only certainty beyond what we can control.
This is Man’s Land — where we talk about the struggles, the victories, and what it means to lead as men under God’s design."
Mans Land.
Unmasking the Male Heart: A Candid Look at Men's Emotions and Communication
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Navigating the often unspoken world of men’s emotions and communication, Stephanie and I peel back the layers on a topic close to our hearts. In the company of my insightful wife, we dissect the silent battles many men face in expressing themselves, particularly within the strongholds of rural stoicism. Our dialogue invites listeners into the contrast between the typically guarded conversations of men and the depth and breadth of topics more freely discussed by women, sparking a broader discussion on the impact of such disparities on relationships and mental health.
This episode is not just a conversation; it's a candid revelation of the emotional labor tucked away behind the way a man can affect his sphere of influence by coming to terms with his feelings. Stephanie and I don't just scratch the surface; we dig into the cultural pressures that have long taught men to shoulder burdens alone, often to the detriment of their wellbeing and family life. Our banter illuminates the transformative power of empathy and the profound difference it makes when men are encouraged to become aggressive in their pursuit for self-awareness, rather than retreat to the isolation that breeds distress.
As we wrap up our heartfelt exchange, the narrative shifts toward the path of emotional intelligence and the courage it takes for a man to step into his role as the stable emotional cornerstone for his family. The journey from volatility to vitality is not for the faint-hearted, and we underscore the need for role models who embody maturity and a willingness to foster a nurturing environment. By challenging men to eschew the victim mentality and engage as proactive partners and fathers, we aim to inspire a legacy of healthier relationships and a stronger, more emotionally connected family culture. Join Stephanie and me as we chart a course toward breaking down barriers and building up the men in our lives.
Hi, I'm Joshua Boroski and welcome to Man's Land, a podcast dedicated to the conversations that surround the struggles and celebrations of men of the land. If you're sitting in a truck, tractor, ute or at home, get ready to dive into some deep conversations as we cultivate topics that are a must for the men of this great country. And joining me today is my darling wife, stephanie, and I've got a question for you. Well, I've got a question for you tonight that we're going to introduce talking about tonight, and that is why men, what is it specifically around this subject of men on the land, or just men in general, even that is so important and needs to be spoken about, why are we doing this?
Speaker 2Well, first of all, thank you for the introduction and I would say the answer to your question is why men? Because women are really good at talking. It's kind of what we do, naturally.
Speaker 1You're very good at talking.
Speaker 2That is very true and I believe that we need to normalize men talking about topics that might be a little bit uncomfortable and it's something that women do quite well and it's it's out. It's actually very natural for us and probably not so much for men. So I think diving into this conversation and this topic is really important.
Speaker 1Okay. So if you were to say there's like certain things that women are particularly good at talking about in comparison to men, all right, and we're men sort of fall off the ledge, and why that's detrimental for them, what would you say?
Speaker 2that is, Well, we're very open with our emotions and I'm probably generalizing here, but you know, in my experience in life, when my friends are upset or they're going through something, we're talking about it.
Speaker 1Yeah, that's something that men do not do. Men are shocking at feelings, like we, because we like men. Like I said, like men are from Mars, women are from Venus. Men like to speak in straight lines. We'd like to speak in like. We'd like to be direct.
Speaker 2You like to small talk.
Speaker 1Oh yeah, no, here we do. We do like to small talk.
Speaker 2I mean when we go out, the men and the women separate. You know, in our country, country towns, which is which I used to have an issue with, but now I love, and they will go out and men will have a conversation and straightaway it will go to the weather or to work or to the weather.
Speaker 1Yeah, no, well, that's, that's fair enough.
Speaker 2You know what the women are talking about on the table.
Speaker 1What are you talking about?
Speaker 2A little while away. We're talking about sex. We're talking about our relationship with our husbands. We're talking about our stress with our children and what's going on. We're talking about. That's pretty much covers it. Maybe the one thing women don't talk about is money. Hmm. Interestingly, but I mean in conversations yeah, we're pretty conservative.
Speaker 1I mean like, yeah, like, like men, men in the land are predominantly very conservative. We don't really like talking like it's. We find talking about feelings, in particular, very icky, as it's like, oh, that's a bit deep, you know, like just, you know, don't go there, We'd rather have a laugh. Yeah, we sort of see out the fun and having a laugh and I think, like, a lot of the time, our conversations and navigator, you know, sport, enjoyment and having a laugh, it's trying to take us away. There's always that taking us away from some of the stuff that's going on under the surface, that we, you know, feel very private, feel like it doesn't, it's nobody else's business and we don't really want anybody else knowing about.
Speaker 2And maybe because most of the time these conversations, these social situations are happening in a space that doesn't necessarily lend to having really deep conversations. Women will adapt anywhere. They will literally have a conversation about anything anywhere.
Speaker 2You reckon that's the same for all women, or just like unless I'm completely a strange person, then yeah, we well, yes, I agree with you that sometimes there are women that are maybe not quite as open to discussing things. But you know, yeah, I think for the I think in general most women are going to have a conversation about what's on their heart, no matter where they are, because they'll literally find a quiet corner and they'll have a chat about what's going on. But for men, I see that there may not be a space where they feel comfortable to have these big, deep conversations.
Speaker 1Okay, what about inside of marriage? What about the the conversations being had inside of the relationships inside of their house, behind the closed doors?
Speaker 2Well, I think they need to have set that up well, as in. Open communication within marriage is probably one of the biggest issues that marriages face today, and possibly one of the reasons why you and I have always felt that it has been so important is, you know, I know for me personally, watching my mom and dad's whole marriage breakdown on bad communication Absolutely, and so I think that problem is across the board, but I think you've got to foster it.
Speaker 2And from when day dot you in particular, were happy to have these conversations. A lot of men are not. A lot of women want to communicate, but I think some, or I think that's a good thing, I think that's a good thing, I think some, or okay, sorry, that's not exactly fair. I'm generalizing on that.
Speaker 1Well, like wouldn't you say that women also have a real tendency to be able to bury their, their feelings towards things as well, like as in, if they don't want to go there, like they can sort of show it under the rug and maybe focus on other things as well. Like is it? Is it only a man's problem that?
Speaker 1that there is this you know, this thing like, like, don't you find especially like, if women don't aren't necessarily happy or they've got things that they don't want to uncover, they'll go and push themselves into work, just like men do? I know men do it a lot more often. It feels like that. Well, it seems to be that way. Well, from my experience of where I'm seeing this, this trend going within the conversation of leadership, inside of families and business, you know men that don't know what the next step is with their bodies, they sort of self sabotaging, okay, that that they definitely you know it's like step out of that, like or get away from that and go to whatever is required to sort of stay wide of it.
Speaker 2Yeah, I probably need to pull myself up on that. My mom was the non communicator and my dad was massively communicative, so maybe it's not fair to say that it's a male female thing. But culturally I do feel like women are better at it in a group of friends, but I'm not sure. Maybe it's more of a personality thing. I really can't say when it comes to marriage, but it's definitely what you are, both as man and wife, willing to.
Speaker 1What about your? So in your experience, in your experience, it's pretty basically in your experience what it was like, because I remember when we were getting married, I pushed very hard for very hard-edge conversations to be had. But I also wanted to have that you did absolutely, but I mean, like that was, that was one of the things that really worked in our favor.
Speaker 1It was like we wanted to communicate the. We wanted to get the stuff out of the dark. Yeah, we didn't want to have anything in the dark. Like I know I wanted my past to be known by you. For sure. I didn't want you to find out about the stuff that I got up to in my youth from secondhand information and stuff like that, because trust was very important.
Speaker 1And you know, with more and more families breaking down around the place, that trust factor for women in particular, you know, are, you know, it's extremely important, like it can't really be stressed enough. Trust inside of the family is built on the foundations of really being honest and being very open and vulnerable. And it's almost like a, like a gamble. It's like I remember feeling, like coming to you and rolling the dice of like, ok, this has to happen, this conversation has to happen, I have to let her know about A, b and C, and she'll either accept that and respect the fact that I'm coming to her honestly and openly and vulnerably vulnerably and or not. And then you're like, well, here we go and so coming to that, and it wasn't easy, it it?
Speaker 1sucked Like it really sucked. The knockdown conversation that had to be had in order to be able to get us to that place of openness and trust required that.
Speaker 2I think, like you say, it's, it's almost a must. You must test the relationship through that. You must put the relationship through that because if you don't it will come back to haunt you at some point and by that time there may be children involved. You may have already gotten married. So, taking that gamble and rolling the dice, I believe it must happen before you get married, because it also sets up what you're willing to accept in a relationship and it sets up the foundation for everything else in your life. Imagine having a massive lie in the closet 20 years into your marriage and then your wife finding out about it or your husband finding out about it.
Speaker 2I just, I just feel like that would be devastating to a couple.
Speaker 1There's two very different places that comes from as well, it seems as well. There's like for for. For women there's the fear factor and the fear of not having the security that behind it, especially inside of a marriage like that, that will dwell and bring up and bubble up you know irrational behaviors and things like that. But for men it's fear that turns into ego or it's plus ego. So men will bury it and then they will run from it in other means as well, Because it's not something they really want to face. It's like, OK, yeah, I did that. So so what? And you know, we all do that, Ain't nothing wrong with. Or you know, yeah, I won't do it, I won't do it now, let's, let's leave that where it was, but I don't want to bring it up, but I don't want to bring it up.
Speaker 1And I'm the boss of me and and don't like, don't come at me like that Woman, don't be an idiot. But I don't know.
Speaker 1OK, well, like the toxic stuff starts to bubble up, you know, like there's a defensiveness and the guy will bring up his fist, sort of like. As in like, as he'll bring up his proverbial fists in a mental way, in an emotional way. To protect himself protect himself and in doing so, that that destabilizes her footing and security inside of the marriage. And so that's like that little like why are you, why are you showing me this ego?
Speaker 2And like why we do it is because what we scared Well, I was about to ask I think a good question is in all of this that we're talking about whether it's men sharing their feelings with each other or with their spouse. Where does that originate from? Where does this culture come from? Where men don't feel safe to share how they feel, and I think there has to be a certain place for that. But it's just gone too far one way.
Speaker 1Well, that's because the the like from back in the past we all talk about. I know it's always been a patriarch in all this sort of stuff, but the men were the focus of the social deconstruction of what was the family unit from prior to the industrial revolution, Like they were painted as the problem you mean.
Speaker 1Well, they were not just painted, but they were the driving force for the factories. They were the driving force for industry, for the economy, for the military, all the complex societal construct. Men drove it, men built it. But it also came at a cost, and this is the thing that we don't necessarily talk about. What was the cost for that? For both sides? But it started with the men, because the men were taken out of the house, out of the home, away from their wives, away from their kids, and thrown into the factories, thrown into the office, thrown into whatever was needed.
Speaker 2Are you suggesting that, before that, though, that men were more open with their emotions?
Speaker 1I think that during the economy age there was a much more family unit. And there was more of a softening with that hard time, as in men, were more, I think, more open. No, like men naturally are not as open. It's not too much about that. But this hard edge, militaristic, don't show your feelings, don't do that. That's real instilled culture.
Speaker 2That's real Doesn't seem natural, does it?
Speaker 1Well, no, it doesn't, because when you actually manage to dive into a really good, sober conversation with a guy with a bloke about what's going on in his life and he starts to really open up, the benefits of that conversation as an outcome is enormous. It's like stuff starts to lock together. If you've got good intentions, if you've got somebody who's willing to listen truly without ego, and be able to lead a conversation like that, then you find that there's an enormous amount of gold at the end of that rainbow.
Speaker 2It's quite profound, astounding to watch.
Navigating Gender Roles in Relationships
Speaker 1And experience and be part of. And the thing is it's sort of like don't cry, don't show your emotions, don't feel, just get to work, get over it, get over it, get over it, she'll be right. Especially for men out here. You're thrown into the workspace all that time and it's like stiff up a lip and get on with it, and I think that as a result of that, we have got so many marriages breaking down. Now, that was what was. This has been a trickle on effect and now we're experiencing such a devastation of relationships, men not knowing how to lead anymore.
Speaker 2And I suppose not just relationships, but it's a huge issue out here men's mental health and feeling like they've got nowhere to go.
Speaker 1Oh, totally Like there's a hopelessness that's absolutely sweeping not just the countryside, it's everywhere and Western, worldwide. But just like you always hear about farmers' mental health, farmers' mental health handle health, mental health, and it's the men, downright down to the men. They put their stock in the land and the land is savage, it's a brutal, and then you sort of they look down at their hands every once in a while and think what the hell is all this for? What's it all about? But the shame of that is the thing that holds them back from having the conversations with others about it.
Speaker 2And I was going to say they feel like, but where do I take this, when do I put this? Because when I go to the pub and I have a drink, I want a little moment of escape from this which you can't blame them for wanting, but there seems to be a lack of opportunity for men to feel safe enough to have these conversations where they know that they can let go.
Speaker 1And that's the other thing. It's go to the pub, have a beer, watch the footy with your mates, and it's nice to escape in that place and it's nice to have that sense of community, because the more isolated you are, the more dangerous you are.
Speaker 1Very easy to get isolated out here Very easy. But having said that, it's also just as easy to be isolated inside the suburbs. It doesn't really matter where you are, it's a matter of how you approach it and how you see it. So it definitely helps to have other men around you, having mates and things like that. But sometimes that conversation needs to go deeper. Maybe they could be struggling and they could be a mate, a good mate, and you've got no idea what they're going through. You just don't. And for a space to be opened up to say, hey, what's actually going on? Without a skinful Like that's the thing.
Speaker 1Like a lot of these things happen when you've got a skinful of like you've been out in the pub, you've come home to those late night DNMs and stuff starts flowing. But no one remembers them.
Speaker 2Well, it's just that you don't, it's like it doesn't have the effect that it would if you weren't.
Speaker 1Yeah because there was. There's not in the intention. The intention's not there. You've got to have the intention behind it.
Speaker 2Yeah, and I would say that you know, if I go on a girls weekend and there's a few of my friends and we're sitting around together, we're not we're not drinking in excess, it's just not sort of our gig as much and B everything will come out because we feel safe in each other's company to do that and it's very healing, even if nobody really has the answer. It's not really about that. It's just about having an ear, to be listened to and to be, I guess, to know that you're not alone, you're not the only one.
Speaker 1And I think that that is like that's another contrast as well for women to just be able to speak and have someone listen is extremely therapeutic. But men, we are doers, they need the answers.
Speaker 1We need the answers and we need to know that, something that we can do to fix the problem, because that's what we do. It's sort of like the age old conversation between men come into the household and she's flying off the handle and the man says well, what do you want me to do? Okay, what do you want me to do? What can I do? There's nothing you can do, man. Okay, you're asking the wrong question. It's not about fixing the problem, it's just about being present and leaving a space for her whatever she needs.
Speaker 2I don't know. Last night, when you came in and I was freaking out about the house not being cleaned and you're like, what can I do? And I said you can help me clean the house. And that was amazing, because what I would have really been devastated about is if you had have tried to say to me just leave it, it'll be fine, you don't need to feel stressed about the house.
Speaker 1Yeah, but the thing was that I had already predetermined what you needed. I could see that. All I needed to do then was ask you know, where do you want me? Because I could see that that's what you wanted, Like that's what you needed at the time. So all I was doing there was you're saying you listened already.
Speaker 2Yeah. I already listen and you decided that the course of action was this time. She wants me to do something?
Speaker 1OK, yeah, because it's sort of that's the difference Like unless, like if you have absolutely no idea. That's the difference with the irrational behavior.
Speaker 2It's like you're suggesting that I'm irrational.
Speaker 1You can absolutely be irrational.
Speaker 2How dare you?
Speaker 1It's just, that's just.
Speaker 2I'm so level man.
Speaker 1It's a roller coaster, but it is, it's. It's that coming into a very chaotic, confusing situation, like your wife?
Speaker 2It's going to get a lot of haters for that comment.
Speaker 1At times, love you, love you, and then and then recognising that you have absolutely no control.
Speaker 2Yeah.
Speaker 1And then just being able to hold a space.
Speaker 2As in you put you, the husband has no control.
Speaker 1Yeah, yeah, the husband has no control. Like he's, he's, he's, you know, like in deep water.
Speaker 2Maybe the wife also a little bit. No control.
Speaker 1Yeah, that's OK. Yeah, but like come from from the man's perspective.
Speaker 2You're saying you're, you're actively holding a space for me. You're like the cliff and I'm the ocean, and I can crash up against you. Exactly so poetic.
Speaker 1I know how beautiful.
Speaker 2And I know you've got me.
Speaker 2Yeah, I do I do appreciate that about you. Actually and and I think it is I actually think it is largely the male's role to be able to create that space Absolutely, because there's something so incredibly beautiful about the way females operate. It makes us incredibly, it allows us to feel so deeply, but also that comes with ups and downs and so to feel as though you're not. You know, the worst thing, I think, for a woman is when her husband looks at her like she's crazy because she's had a big day and it's been really tough and she's just emotionally exhausted and she's upset. And then he's like why is this such a big deal, you know?
Speaker 1and then you feel like seconded by how do I fix this?
Speaker 2Yeah, big nail in the coffin.
Speaker 1Big nail in the coffin.
Navigating Emotional Intelligence and Personal Growth
Speaker 2Yeah, so it sort of gives no validation to your emotions in that moment. And then I suppose here we come back to that conversation of is that possibly because men are afraid of emotions and afraid of what to do with them? Because women can have really big emotions, like I know, personally I do, and when I'm really sad I'm really sad. It doesn't last for long but it can be there.
Speaker 1Yeah, very, very serious what you get in that yeah.
Speaker 2And then for me, with you, when you look at me and I know that you've just got me and that you don't think I'm crazy and that you just are holding me in that space and in that moment it washes over me so fast. If I felt like you were terrified of my emotions and you were just like, well, this chick is too much for me to handle, I would be devastated.
Speaker 1Yeah, and I actually wanted to ask you that from the perspective of before I went down this lane, of really trying to understand what the hell was going on internally. Ok, that that journey, I suppose, where you know it, caused a fair bit of disruption in one sense, but it was really about trying to break away from that old style of thinking all the time and to like fast-track today and even through this process of trying to build and strengthen that sort of resolve, that part of of me. What did you see from between the polarities, I suppose, draw the draw, the differences between those two, two areas. As far as a man that was not really you know he's not like not bad, not bad and like feeling like he did air quotes but you can't see that.
Speaker 1Like he, bunny bunny bunny ears not bad To today.
Speaker 2Yeah, that's a really good question. I think the thing with you is you you've always been good where you're good, but the difference now is that I see that because you're aware, you're so much more aware of where your emotions were coming from and you also acknowledge them and deal with them. It means that you are so solid for me, whereas before that, one day I could get you and you were solid, but another day I might catch you when you just had an argument with someone you're working with and all of a sudden not the right time for me to not be emotionally stable, and so then I'm trading on egg shells.
Speaker 2I do remember that. I do remember the especially in a high stress environment time like, say, harvest. Yeah it's almost like you know. I could ask you if you want a cup of coffee, and it might be the wrong question.
Speaker 1Yeah, you know, very easily triggered. I do remember times like that.
Speaker 2I do remember times where I'd say, oh, could you, you know, put that here, and you know I would be accused of, I don't know, micromanaging you for example really volatile and I would and I know I remember actually actively thinking to myself right, how should I structure this sentence so that I do not trigger?
Speaker 2should I, yeah, piss my husband off, yeah, and that especially once children are involved? That's the kind of level of emotional intelligence you need to activate to have children. To be with your children like that constantly and managing your own emotions so that you don't trigger them or that when they trigger you, you don't get triggered and lose. It is is incredibly taxing, and then to have to do that with your husband next level.
Speaker 1Nasty, that is a really nasty alien monster. Yeah, that it actually just dropped for me. Yeah, I could see that Like that memory of having such a hectic husband, that that, what am I going to get? And am. I going to get the guy that can be there for me Okay, that's the guy I want all the time or am I going to trigger the shit out of him? So all of a sudden he's unloading his pain into my face Like that choice of words.
Speaker 2My husband was never abusive. Just like slide note.
Speaker 1That was the wrong choice of words. Whoa, as in like, as in like, just blurting it all out.
Speaker 2I know what you mean.
Speaker 1Yeah, unloading baggage.
Speaker 2Yeah.
Speaker 1And I think that is.
Speaker 2That is what oh sorry, but it's because I was still speaking to a little boy. Yes, Definitely. And that's the difference Like you were operating.
Speaker 1That's the whole half man thing. Yeah, like that's the half man thing there's. So like I was, I was an absolute half man, like I was such a little. And this is the thing, this petulance, this, this behavior, this victim mentality that men so often bring, and that's why I think this is such an important conversation to have around just men, man's land, the, the what's behind it is because so much is it's not being addressed as far as these guys, that we're developing but we've lost the culture to bring that to fruition, of that, that grown man, a grown ass man ready to step up.
Speaker 1You know, like we're all happy to go and produce money, okay, and we can sort of work in our little zones, but when it comes to, okay, are you a man that can be an emotional rock for your wife, okay, and be that rock for your family as well? Are you prepared to be able to, to operate in that space with strength? That's required, and it takes a lot of strength, takes a lot of patience. Do you have the means and the capacity to be able to produce and provide for them at the same time? It's not just one and then the other, it's both.
Speaker 2And actually can I just add there too, that at no point are you saying that that's an easy thing to achieve. And, and you know, I remember my dad saying to me at one point, when we were talking about sort of just how you were, and I said, dad, you know, josh is so great now, you know, and our relationship has gone to the next level. And he's like, yeah, but Steph, he did so much work, he worked so hard to get to that place. And so I just wanted to point that out, because it's easy to say these things.
Speaker 1Oh, but there's a weight behind them.
Speaker 2But there is, and to know that, one that it's achievable, but two that it requires an intentional effort on both of our parts, not just your part, but largely you were doing a lot of the work. You did the majority of the changing actually. So it's an incredible testament to your tenacity and want for a better result in our lives.
Speaker 1Yeah, for whatever reason that might be, to see the lacking, recognize it and move on it, move towards that lacking is the key, basically and there's a drive and what would you say, actually got you to the place that you are now.
Speaker 1That was, oh, that would be the voice of God. The voice of God, absolutely the voice of God in my life. Was it always clear? No, did I listen? Most of the time? No, but I knew that it was there and I had a faith, even though my faith was weak as piss and I went my own way constantly, which caused me a huge amount of pain.
Speaker 1This is the third sort of part of it as well is like I knew I wanted to be a great husband and a great father, and I knew that I wasn't that. I knew that I wanted to be able to be a good producer, and I knew that I wasn't that. I heard God's voice in my mind saying there are things that you need to do, and I wasn't listening to that and basically, those three things caused me to abuse the crap out of my body and, amongst other things, like just sedations and stuff like that. So, those four aspects working on those driven by the voice of, like accepting okay, there is something that in my conscience I know I must move towards and actually surrendering to his voice, actually surrendering and going okay, something needs to change because this ain't working.
Speaker 2But then, like you added this like practical element to that. Oh yeah. You know, there's like four parts of your life that you intentionally worked on. Yeah, exactly, sort of you broke it down and then yeah.
Speaker 1But it starts with seeking though. Yeah, it starts with seeking, You've got to first of all go.
Speaker 2I want to do this yeah.
Speaker 1Like, a lot of the time it's like men are down in there, right at the bottom of their pit, they're right down their darkest point, Okay. And then it's like, oh, lights got to click. You know, right down the paint, I can't take them all. Why, Stella, you know that kind of thing and you've got to then go right. No, fuck it, I'm doing whatever it takes.
Speaker 2I've got to do something about this. I've got to do something about this.
Speaker 1Yeah, and that's sort of like the moment for a lot of guys. But does it require that? And also for a lot of guys? There's a lot of men out there in shocking situations to find themselves Like they'd be sad. Oh, it was okay for you, Maybe you had this and this and you got a beautiful wife and all this sort of stuff. But what about me? My wife hates my guts, Okay, but all I would say to that is don't worry, mate, if I'd kept going the way I was going, my wife would hate my guts as well.
Speaker 2And I was about to say that for you, yeah.
Speaker 1So it's and I think like and that'd be a question for you is sort of like like how long could you see our relationship going the way it was going, with the roller coaster of this guys who was coming back, you know, demanding that he have his, you know nights on the pierce coming back and being hungover week, week on sort of stuff or whatever it was rolling that in, having to tip toe around him and then put the added pressures of three kids on top of that and then put the added pressure of a drought on top of that or a mouse plague or a flood. I mean gosh, we just came out of a major flood. There's a lot of pressure in the flood. You know there's a lot happening at that time, so so start stacking all that.
Speaker 2I don't, I don't think I would have put a time limit on it.
Speaker 2But I know I just it becomes this horrible perpetual circle where you're not living your best life and I'm not, and it goes around and around. And you know in their moments that what I would find is that we were often out of sync with each other, and if you were having a good moment, I might be, you know, having a really bad moment, and then we're not. We're not actually enjoying these times that we have together. We're kind of like chasing our tail all the time and we're always out of step with each other. It's like, you know, watching a dance between two people with two left feet and it just doesn't work and it's clunky and I would say that it just becomes.
Speaker 2I probably would have continued to stick in it because you know, I married you and I promised that that was for life, through thick and thin.
Speaker 2I just guess that when you say that you don't really know what it means, you don't actually know what that thick and thin is going to look like. And I do remember thinking to myself one day wow, I didn't know this about you. I am surprised at that behavior, or the way you're speaking to me, or the way you've said something, whatever it might be. And so I remember thinking, oh wow, okay, I'm gonna have to adjust myself and what I'm doing in order to cater for that, which was a really unusual place to find myself in, not something I expected. And so I would just say that, you know, I just became probably a little bit unhappy and a little bit like I was doing it on my own, which comes back to that sort of Peter Pan scenario that we're talking about a little bit. That I think you know, if, if your wife doesn't feel like she can depend on you, she doesn't feel like she's got a man, I like that.
Speaker 1I like what you said there about the Peter Pan, that you've got that Peter Pan thing. I think that that.
Speaker 2Yeah, I think a lot of women feel that from their husbands.
Speaker 1I think that's a major issue.
Speaker 2And you know also it's unattractive, like every woman that I know, they want a man that they can crush up against.
Speaker 2They want the man that they know is going to be sturdy and there for them. I mean, that's the geek, that's what makes men and women such an amazing team. And when you feel like you've married a half boy, it's not sexy and you don't feel like you can then step into your beautiful feminine self because you have to carry both loads. You have to carry the load for your husband because he's over here being a fucking child and you already have three of those. And so, yeah, like when you really started to shift, the way that you managed your own emotions and I didn't feel like I had to manage them for you or attempt to or change my behavior wow, like you know, the fire comes alive again. The woman feels like she's the woman again and that you're the man and that you know, even like in sort of a sexual context that is so attractive to me and I know to other women, and when you're in that Peter Pan phase, that attraction just dies because you know you don't want to feel like you're mothering somebody.
Stepping Up
Speaker 1Yeah, I think that you hit the nail on the head there, especially with that whole. You know you're having to create space for his emotional turmoil. A guy that's in chaos immediately will throw his wife or his partner or significant other into a space of insecurity. And when you know you're in that space of insecurity, like pretty much you'll shut down areas that are not that don't address, because that's security, is number one, really it's number one. It's like I need security here because if you're not able to provide me security emotionally, financially, physically, spiritually, then oh no, no, I'm. You're not going to get the all of me, like you're not going to get the queen, this beautiful crown that's inside, and you're not going to have access to that. You might even be active sexually, but you're not going to get the true heart of what you said there.
Speaker 2You're not going to get all of me. A woman has so many incredible facets to her, but she's not going to show them all to you if she thinks you're a little boy.
Speaker 1Yes, exactly, and it's, it's. It's bloody important because, like the, the, the Peter Pan stage, it's that, like these grown ass men of today are so damn consumed with the toy. You know whether that's the football, whether that's the, you know whether that's the cars, whether that's the gear, whether that's whatever. Okay, they can pretty much make a toy out of anything they want.
Speaker 2Headers tractors.
Speaker 1Yeah, but like yeah.
Speaker 2Headers, tractors. Oh yeah, we do get gear, we love gear. All right, drones.
Speaker 1Should. I go on. But, but it's. But. When it becomes the thing that consumes the, the focus of the relationship, it's like man. When you're going to lay down the toy and pick up the weapon, when are you actually going to start? You know, addressing some of the things that you're running from because so much easier to to pick on the TV and watch the footy. You know, the game is on. I haven't got time to talk about this now.
Speaker 2Yeah.
Speaker 1I gotta be somewhere at work. I can't talk about this now.
Speaker 2Like when are you going to stop being a squat and and be the night?
Speaker 1That's right, it's it's, it's exactly right. So it's it's like really get out of that cowboy stage and start stepping up and that happens.
Speaker 2That needs to happen before kids, yeah, like oh, and I think this is the biggest thing, is that it's what we went through. We. You know, we really didn't get to that point until things got too much, when children came along and the pressure really stepped up. You know you want to. You want to test a relationship. Throw a couple of children into the mix. And wow, you really see what's going on.
Speaker 1And it's, and immediately there's an immediate pass over from that, like the effects on the family and the kids as they're into that thing. Everyone goes yeah, you just mulled through it and you just get over and you just do yeah, okay, if you're lucky and yet there's. There's good attributes in everybody and they're like people have got resiliences and things. Not everybody's like us Okay, I totally get that. That's the beauty, life's rich pageant.
Speaker 2We're different but at the same time, the culture, yeah but we're different, but we chose that it's still a choice.
Speaker 1Yeah, it is a choice, but we actively work on that.
Speaker 2It's not like you know, it's just easy all the time.
Speaker 1We we, we we're intentionally we prioritize, yeah, we prioritize, yeah, yeah, sorry, continue, yeah. So I'm just sort of saying is that we, we like it's that culture of of getting that in order, like guys getting in order, get your shit in order before you start impacting the lives of others. Like-.
Speaker 2Clean up your own bedroom.
Speaker 1Clean up your shit, like, really Like Jordan Peterson yeah, exactly, to quote Jordan Peterson clean your bedroom up before you enter into you. Know the important things, the weighty things of the world, like what is expected of you as a role Not, I suppose, expected of you but like we can talk about this for ages and ages and we can go on this forever. But basically, when do we, as men, start picking up the weapon, we start putting down the Peter Pan syndrome, we start stepping into the role as men and really delivering on this gift that we've been given, which is life, which is our wife, which is our children, and then showing our children, especially our young boys, up and coming the culture that is required to see that, as they step into the relationships in their lives, they're not consumed by the distractions of toys, the ego that sits in the heart of their fear, the fact that they're you know, they treat them like. What kind of a role model is presented for them? What kind of a culture do we get to deliver and what's it based on?
Speaker 2Well, I think and I know we're wrapping it up, but maybe for another day the question is what about for men when they feel that they want for that, but they didn't have that? They weren't raised in that way, they didn't have those role models, they didn't have what was showing them the way.
Speaker 1Yeah, and I think that that's why we're having this conversation and this comes back to the question why men is because what we've established just by talking about this in the first part is that there's only so far we can use the excuse that it wasn't up to me, that we're victims in all of this, that we have been playing with the Peter Pan syndrome for too long, and that that is something that we need to flag as men, that there requires a certain amount of bravery to be sort of stepped up. It's time to start taking the reins. It's time to start seeing the family as a gift, seeing the life in the times of gift and getting away from this oh what was me thing where I have to go sedate myself. That's pretty confronting. Like that's gonna trigger dudes big time. Like that sucks. It's like who the fuck are you mate?
Speaker 2I was just thinking how women would love this and men are gonna hate it.
Speaker 1Exactly because it's like oh, exposure. But that's the bloody problem is that we're so damn afraid of being exposed and that is why men, why men need to sort of listen to this sort of stuff, have these conversations and, as this goes on, having guests on things like that and getting different perspective. If you're not being challenged by what is being spoken here, then this conversation's not doing its damn job, like that's why we're doing this, not here to spiders, we're here to get a response inside of the hearts of men. It's gotta fire the men's, the men, into action. It's like, right, okay, there's more. It's like what needs to be exposed in me so that I can step into that space that I really want. All in all, guys, this conversation sucks. It sucks, but it's bloody necessary.
Speaker 2Women only like it because it's exciting and it's refreshing because women are exhausted of trying to do both things.
Speaker 1Yes, and that's, they're exhausted also. I think there's a lot of loss, but that's from time for another conversation. I think is like that women's side I don't think topic but at the moment, why men is basically that it's basically getting men back into the game of being physically, mentally, financially, bodily and emotionally fit to really get into tune with that so that they can present.
Speaker 2And be great men that they are.
Speaker 1Dude, dude, be the dude. Be the dude. All right, anyway, thank you so much for coming on the podcast with me, my darling.
Speaker 2I didn't have a choice. Everybody, I didn't have a choice.
Speaker 1It's not true you were so willing.
Speaker 2I forced myself on this show.
Speaker 1Not it's like give me the mic, Give me the mic. I love the mic, I love the spotlight.
Speaker 2Can't imagine what gave you that impression.
Speaker 1Okay, and that's a wrap for today. So if you enjoyed our conversation and you're a man who feel like you or someone you know is struggling inside the area of relationships, be that within the family, faith fitness or inside the business, then go to SovereignSonscomau and check out the Crispal Program Until next week. Have a great day. I appreciate you showing up. My name's Joshua Broski and I'll catch you next time.
