Give Her what She Needs....

When Josh began leaving personalized sticky notes for our family, the change in our home was palpable. Journey with us, Steph and Josh Boroski, as we explore the transformation that mindful male leadership can bring to a family’s dynamic. From the ripple effects of our actions to the spiritual guidance we provide, our latest podcast episode delves into the profound responsibilities and impact of being present in our loved ones' lives. We share personal anecdotes, the significance of small gestures, and the societal implications of men fully embracing their roles within the family.

The balance between personal achievements and emotional availability is a tightrope many fathers walk. In our episode, we candidly discuss the emotional load often shouldered by women when their partners step back from these duties. We reveal how recognizing our spouses as gifts, rather than responsibilities, can revolutionize our relationships and create a nurturing environment for our children. Our conversation touches on not just the challenges, but also the joy found in daily acts of love and the enduring influence they have.

Concluding with a heartwarming sign-off, we invite you to catch more enriching discussions on family, faith, fitness, and business in future episodes. We understand the complexities of modern family dynamics and the often-overwhelming expectation for men to lead effectively. This episode is a call to embrace self-awareness, the power of communication, and the principles that build strong relationships. Whether you’re navigating your role in the family, seeking spiritual growth, or balancing business with personal life, join us for insights and support that can guide you on your journey.

Transcript

Speaker 1 0:03

Hi, I'm Joshua Boroski and welcome to Man's Land, a podcast dedicated to the struggles and celebrations of men of the land. Whether you're in a truck, track their ute or just kick it back at home, buckle up, as Steph and I act with the married duo to cover some deep conversations across farming, family, faith and fitness, cultivating some challenging discussions that are essential for the men of this great country. Good evening, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to another episode of Man's Land. I'm here with my beautiful wife, stephanie Boroski, and tonight we're going to be talking about something that really, really weighs heavily on my heart whenever I witness it, and that is when I see the effects of well, women are not being led or not being cared for, not being loved, not being cherished, not being gathered and held space for inside of their own families, inside of their lives, inside of their marriages. The men inside of their lives have just about abdicated the role of being that masculine spiritual leader inside of the household. They've stepped out of that role. They don't want to lead inside of the spirit that I want to lead inside of just the day to day geek that is basically coping themselves.

Speaker 1 1:25

This is a conversation that we go through quite often. But I want to sort of expand on the other side of it, the effects of the other side and some of the things that we witness as well, and I think that, steph, you've got a few good things here that I think you could really share to our listeners around this, because it's so important that if all men and women listening, but for men in particular, that they come to understand the impacts of their leadership, that if they, I mean your wife is going to be impacted massively. Whether you think that you're trying or not, and if you're oblivious to this, well then you're doing a lot of damage as you're not even aware of and you're actually being probably willingly ignorant to a certain extent. So it's really time for a lot of fellas to start opening their eyes and recognise that the damage they're doing to the family, to their wives in particular, and how that cascades down to the kids lives and everything like that, is resulting because of their lack of leadership.

Speaker 3 2:38

What was the saying that? I can't remember who spoke this, but they said whether you're leading, whether you choose to lead or you choose to do nothing, or you choose to be proactive or you choose to do nothing.

Speaker 1 2:49

That was Sean McDonald. It was in reference to a man who's a powerful leader, regardless of whether he's doing a good job or not.

Speaker 3 2:56

Yes, exactly, and I think that sort of really encapsulates what you're saying there. You have no idea of your impact. Whether you're doing something or not, it doesn't matter, it's still impactful. You're still having an effect on your family, whether you decide to do nothing with that or you decide to actually do something with that. So I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but that's what you're getting at.

Speaker 1 3:23

Absolutely 100%. Because if we're not conscious of it to begin with, if we're not conscious of the problem that there is a problem and we just go into our every day, just sort of coping, moving through the motions and not being present with presence, we're not actually being as effective as masculine men inside of our households. If we're not looking after a stewardship as fathers and as husbands, then we are not that we are causing damage. It's either good or it's bad.

Speaker 3 4:09

Yeah, I think can we go back to that a little bit too?

Speaker 3 4:11

Because what I'd like to acknowledge is the role that men play, whether they choose to recognize it or not, and the leadership that they take within the family and the effect that that has on their whole family.

Speaker 3 4:28

I think sometimes it gets especially in today's day and age it gets kind of sidelined, this masculine role or the importance of the masculine role within the family. But we still feel the effects of it. So I'll try and explain that a little bit better. Even if you live in a relationship where that role isn't sort of recognized or nobody really thinks it's important, we're still as a society feeling the effects of men not stepping into that role, not stepping up to that responsibility. So even if we kid ourselves and kind of say, well, it's fine if the man doesn't want to lead the household and the woman does it, we still see the effects of that. So I guess I just want to highlight that there is this really incredibly important position that men are in and whether or not they choose to recognize that is beside the point it still is going to affect their family either way. You can just choose for it to be good or have a negative effect.

Speaker 1 5:38

And the thing is is that the family is watching the man, wife is watching the man, the kid is watching the man. That's what's happening. They're watching the husband, they're watching the father, they are looking for all of the, all these traits, like they're getting a lot of cues as to what's the direction. Where are we going with this? What are the habits that I will adopt? What are the values that we hold? That comes from his hand, inside of the family.

Speaker 1 6:11

If it's not, then if it's not there, then well, you're still there, but you're just not actually providing the family with the foundational necessities that a family structure ought to have in order to see that it is grounded and it's wholesome and that it is strong and that, when the earth shakes and things start to come apart around them, that it holds together and that the you know that your kids have got something more than just you know, than the physical goods that are supplied for them, because all that can be taken away in an instant. It's like when you're strip bare. What do you have to hold on to? What has you know? Like everyone sort of says oh, I want to build a legacy for my family, I want to make sure I've got plenty of money to go into. That's basically what we do.

Speaker 1 6:59

You know we try and build a monetary legacy, but then you know, you think well, how many families break apart and split apart and are destroyed siblings and whatnot over money, like because they weren't backed up with the moral, ethical and spiritual values that would actually see the guidance come from something deeper.

Speaker 3 7:20

So you believe that that is the man's role? In the relationship.

Speaker 1 7:24

I think it is both. I think it's the man's role to lead the household in that. I think it's woman's role to ensure that the man does it well.

Speaker 3 7:33

That's a good way to put it.

Speaker 1 7:34

Yeah, because.

Speaker 3 7:35

And I think what happens in. If the man is not even willing to go there, then what you find is women feeling the need to step into that role and they will. And they will every time, because they're fierce and they will fight for the good of their family. And if they feel like their husband can't do it, you know they might feel sad about that, but in the same token they'll say, okay, that's fine, I'll do it for you.

Speaker 1 7:59

Yeah, but if you have a look at the statistics it's very interesting. A mother that tries to bring spiritual awareness or spiritual connection to the family it's only like a 20% chance that the kids will pick it up.

Speaker 3 8:12

It's less than that. I think it's like 17.

Speaker 1 8:14

Well, let's say I'm rounding up to 20%. Okay, if the father is the one that leads the family inside of Christian faith?

Speaker 3 8:26

it is 80 to 90%.

Speaker 1 8:28

Like it's enormous.

Speaker 3 8:31

I know, which is very confronting to me as a mom of faith in a way, Because I just feel like, okay, if you weren't here, if something had happened to you and I was still leading my children in faith, just because I didn't have another male to be in that role, does that mean that you know?

Speaker 1 8:51

It's confronting. I understand that entirely. I think there's two parts to that. First of all, if I was no longer he's saying it happened to me, but I had already set the foundations inside of the family, then I think that at least they have that. Like I leave that one thing. It's sort of like with the sticky notes. Okay, I leave the sticky notes with the kids and especially for like Katie, who can read well, like I just try to make sure that she's. I drop a gesture of Christ in the legends.

Speaker 1 9:25

It just reinforces and collects that centredness around it when she wakes up and she reads her note.

Speaker 3 9:33

Can I just say on this topic for those people who don't know what you do, because if there is a man listening and they want to know what is one thing they could start every day. That would make an impact on their family. I cannot vouch for this highly enough. Even our four-year-old, who are five-year-old, will get upset if he can't find his sticky note from you. You know, and the same with the girls. They it's the first thing they look for when they. It's even the first thing I look for when I wake up and actually I don't think you did one today and we were all looking for it and everyone sort of asked each other did you get a sticky note from dad? How come? Where are our sticky notes from dad? And I often and I make sure I collect them and I make sure that I know where the kids are keeping theirs, because they want to keep their own, because I know that one day, if you're not here, those little sticky notes are going to be invaluable.

Speaker 3 10:35

And so what Josh does for those people who don't know what we're talking about is each morning he writes a personalized little sticky note to each person in our family One for me and one for each of our three children and they're very unique to that child and they're very unique to me as Josh's wife, and the impact that that has on each of us is it's huge.

Speaker 3 11:01

It really is not just for today but, I know, for tomorrow as well, and it imparts a tiny bit of wisdom, a tiny bit of love, a tiny bit of goodness into each one that receives that note. And it's so simple and it's something that anybody can do. So if you are the father of your household and you are looking for something to do, I cannot recommend this highly enough, because I see firsthand the impact and I know, as the wife of you, what a huge impact that has on me every day, knowing that I'm valued by you, knowing that I'm loved, knowing that you see me and that you appreciate me and sometimes you're right about just recognizing what I do for us as a family, or maybe something beautiful about who I am, or that I look really lovely today, whatever it is, or that you just are so grateful that God is at the center of our relationship. And I know that these things are cherished in my heart and they make me feel seen by you every day.

Speaker 1 12:09

Yeah, and that's what their intention is. It's an intention to sort of impart with gratitude and appreciation from me to you as a daily discipline and also a way of being able to communicate without the distractions of words, mumblings, mumblings or anything else. It is very specific, it's very intentional, it's very personal and it is hugely impactful. And, like you said, if something was to happen to me, I know that my children will have those and they all have them all kept and more or less, and for each of them knowing which letter was when, and they have a running tally of the way and the thoughts of how I think and value and cherish each of my children and yourself. So, but look, that's a way in which that's a practice that you can start 100%. But back to what it was that we were actually talking about before, which was, if you're not doing, if you're like, okay, that aside, that is one way you can really impact the family.

Speaker 1 13:17

But if it's something that you're not doing, if it feels like for you, if you're listening to this now and you can tell that there's, you're not showing up, being present, if you're not being aware of what your family's needs are. Instead, you're chasing the things you would like to give them instead and you're prioritizing your wants to get that nice furry feeling or that feeling of you're achieving and you're going forward. The good things, the good things, but you're not giving them the best things, which is the things that they need, which is the things that will have them their foundation set, deep and strong, so that they will have something to draw on whether you're here or you're not. That is the role of a man, that is a role of a leader, but that is the role that is being abdicated, like. There's nothing more, nothing more punishing than to watch and look into the eyes of a woman who has not received that kind of leadership from her husband in their long marriage and you sit there and you think, honey, my heart bleeds for you.

Speaker 1 14:29

It really does. When was the last time this man of yours held space for you? You are sitting here trying to hold all your shit together and the shit of all the families together, Like and there are countless numbers of these girls around the place.

Challenges of Modern Family Dynamics

Speaker 3 14:46

Yeah, everywhere. I was gonna say when I have heard women speak to me about everything that is on their shoulders, all that I can think in my mind is where is your husband? How is he supporting you? But she's thinking I can't tell my husband, it's too much for him, or he has too much on his shoulders and he can't hold space for me. You know what? Or he won't, or he won't. And I mean, what do you say to someone Like I can't turn around then and say I'm like I'm really sorry. It's actually because in that scenario women are feeling guilty. They're feeling like, oh, I'm failing again.

Speaker 1 15:31

Well, they're either guilty, or they're angry, or they're exhausted.

Speaker 3 15:35

They're just trying to carry so much.

Speaker 1 15:37

They're trying to carry all the way, and this is the thing. I don't give a damn about what society's saying about the way a family structure ought to be, and now women ought to be that and men ought to be like equality and all that sort of thing. We're different, we play very different roles, and if you're doing this alone as a woman, it is exhausting. It is like I don't know. Honestly, my heart bleeds for you. It really does. Okay, not saying that you didn't have some responsibility in that. No, for whatever reason, okay, unless, of course, you're a widow. That's a different story altogether. But I'm talking more of the fact that there are more broken families today than there's ever been, and even the idea of family unity has become optional, which is just, to me, is just so heinous. It's like we're going against the very natural structure not only natural, but the transcendent structure of matrimony and the nuclear family.

Speaker 3 16:40

But can I just ask? Because, back to what we were saying before, I see that there is this abdication like you were talking about. There's this abdication of this role, and would you say what is causing that? Because men are obviously feeling like they can't manage it all and there is, as we know, such a huge issue with men feeling this overwhelm, especially men on the land. They're feeling this overwhelm. They have all of this stuff piled up on them. They don't know how to hold space for anybody else. They're just trying to hold it all together for the farm or for the business or whatever it might be, so they don't even have the capacity to also hold space for a family, which is an emotional space to hold, and it can be very tumultuous, it can be very up and down. So it takes quite a solid man to be able to do that.

Speaker 1 17:38

Which starts really, if I might, it starts with a man. I mean like there's a solid man but there's just a man who is prepared to realize that there is a problem.

Speaker 3 17:53

And maybe a man who's prepared to realize that in a society that tells him it doesn't matter that it actually does matter that his role in the family does matter and he does have a responsibility in that.

Speaker 1 18:08

Well, he's got a gift right in front of him. He's got a woman who has agreed to spend her life with him.

Speaker 3 18:15

A gift. It's a better way to put it actually 100%. Because maybe men feel like it's a burden Of course they do Rather than a gift.

Speaker 1 18:23

Exactly. That's exactly what happens. I know what that's like. You know, like you say oh, my wife and my children, my responsibility. You chuck them on your back Like when you're down. When you realize that your wife and child are a gift, then all of a sudden it changes the frame of mind very differently. A gift, a gift from who and whom? I to treat a gift without love? Like you know, and this goes back to the that adage, you know what is love? Love is suffering. Love is suffering. We don't like to hear that though.

Speaker 1 18:53

No, you don't, but that's the reality of it, like if you think about it for a second. It's so true. It's so true Like what are you prepared to do to suffer for love? And we have spoken about this many times. But I can't really like. When I look at these ladies, when I look at these women, when I look at these wives of men, I think where are those men suffering for the love of the woman in front of them? Where has she witnessed his love? Where has?

Speaker 1 19:20

she witnessed his suffering Society. In what's been told us these days, love is basically sex. Like what an absolutely disgraceful description of something so deep, something so so completely detached from the kind of desire just to have the flesh filled. A nice of you bumping ugly for crying out loud Like that's it. That's what we've gone. We've just taken it and we've said you know, if you love her, you know, then do her Like that kind of thing.

Speaker 3 20:00

Yeah, but I think in married relationships it's not even like that's not even on the table, in that sense as in that might be a single person's game. But I mean what we're talking about here, and I think you put it well before when you said where has the woman seen her husband suffer for her? And I guess one of the best examples I can think about is especially in the farming industry. And what we go through all the time is when the husband will stand up for the wife in a scenario Like You're talking about family situations.

Speaker 3 20:41

Yeah.

Speaker 1 20:42

So you just sort of what you're talking about is like you've got Well being loyal to her first. Over-.

Speaker 3 20:47

Over mom or Dad, dad or brothers. Yeah, and I think quite often women who have married into a farming family don't experience that, as in, they don't experience their husband actually leaving their mother and father and clinging to their wife, like it says in the Bible. They don't experience that because it's messy in farming and that's so much damage done.

Speaker 1 21:18

There's a lot of conflicting issues there. There's the assets, there's the capacity to be actually be able to make that the industry or the viability of the business work. I know like, if you know, there's a lot in the balance. It's complicated.

Speaker 3 21:34

Is. It is complicated.

Speaker 1 21:36

But it's, but the doesn't take away, doesn't take away from the very simple gesture of what it is that a man ought to do inside of that relationship and leading his wife in a way that she knows that she is valued and seen and cherished and she is held in that space that someone's not that no one's going to come in and be able to get at her without him. You know being a, you know being at some point A shield for her. Yeah.

Speaker 3 22:17

I'm not saying there's no room for discussion in these things, but what I Because there's a lot of, Because obviously yeah of course, and obviously it's a gray area, but I do hear all too often that it's simply out of loyalty to the mother-in-law or to the family that the wife will suffer. The husband will allow the wife to suffer because he is actually not brave enough to stand up for what's right. That's actually what's going on there. If the scenario is that she hasn't done anything wrong and I'm talking like most of the women I speak to are not unreasonable people and they're in just a really tough situation.

Speaker 1 23:07

Well, that's very interesting because, like looking at it from a man's perspective and seeing it from this other side, you've got when the result of women that are not feeling led or feeling held or feeling like their man's got them and this goes back to their fathers as well, to their dad's relationship not having that masculine container, you have the resulting chaotic woman, and that can be very, very hard to manage inside of a marriage.

Speaker 3 23:45

Well, this is. I was going to say this before. If that's the case and the situation is complicated, sort it out. You know between you, sort it out and don't allow it to be a situation that goes unspoken about.

Speaker 3 24:05

Well, that's why the man needs to be able to step up and be able to just keep on rolling into that conversation, because, otherwise you do get women feeling the very much the need to stand up for themselves because no one else is standing up for them. And then you get big fights and ugly scenarios and all this kind of stuff, because really I believe in that scenario the husband didn't do his job, which was to sort it out behind closed doors with his wife and for them to be on the same page about something and then to go to the family in these situations and explain where you stand as a teen, whereas we've often got women in the farming industry where their husband is not doing that for them because they're bullied by their families and they're bullied into doing what the families want. So you know it just. I mean it's only one example, but it's all connected.

Speaker 1 24:55

It's just another example of what we're talking about here. Yeah, it's a very relevant issue.

Speaker 3 24:58

And it's a very big issue for us.

Speaker 1 25:01

Yeah, but like so, like okay, and let's take a bit of a check, stop here and let's be a little bit empathetic across the board. Okay, because like we can empathize, like I personally can empathize with all women, like I mean, as in, like when I see women that are really struggling inside of that zone, I absolutely like my heart goes out to them and I am angry at how weak we are as men.

Speaker 1 25:26

Alright, then I look at the fact that we're just, we are men and, yeah, sometimes we you know a lot of times we screw it up. It's hard to get it right, and what we are experiencing from our wives is the challenge. So long as they are challenging, okay, and they need to, this is what, like, I encourage women to do is that you do challenge your husbands openly, as straightforward as you possibly can Not with.

Speaker 1 25:52

You know the. You know it's going to happen regardless. But sometimes you know there's a certain amount of consciousness about what it is that you really need and being able to communicate to him what you need, then you know, do that, because if it's just a screaming fit or you're throwing plates or whatever it might be, it's not always very constructive.

Speaker 3 26:11

Yeah, make it as constructive as possible.

Speaker 1 26:12

Exactly. He's more likely to shut down or depart, or you know, go and find some things that's a little bit cooler or a little bit nicer, in the form of warm or sedations or another woman for crying out loud.

Speaker 1 26:28

That does absolutely happen. The issue is that, okay, yeah, it's like from the onset of the relationship, like for you know, if you're leading your daughters into this is to make sure, or you're leading your sons into this, it's make sure that they, that the relationship is first of all established on really good, solid principles and solid understanding of what the roles are. But before you started to say you have empathy for oh yeah, sorry For the men in this is that they've got to deal with. You're juggling a lot of hot tamales there.

Speaker 3 27:09

Yeah, and this is what I mean, and this is why women will.

Speaker 1 27:14

The tamales being the family, the siblings, the wife, the you know himself and everything like that, and it's you know they are.

Speaker 3 27:22

This is why what often happens is that the woman will, you know, accept that. Oh okay, I'll just do what's best for everybody. I won't make waves, I'll just I'll just kind of like put out with the situation because I don't want to put more pressure on my husband, because that would be too much for him.

Speaker 1 27:43

Yeah, what? Oh, I was just going to say so, yeah, this is one scenario. I know that there's also the other scenario I want you to speak on that as well.

Speaker 3 27:52

But for many of the women that I have spoken to about these situations because lots of women reach out to me on Instagram and we talk about this kind of stuff this very stuff we were just talking DMs about this all the time and women are suffering with it all the time. And most of these women will say to me it's okay, I don't want to put the pressure on my husband because he has too much to deal with already, and so I will just take a back seat and I will just continue to suffer in silence. I know that that's not every woman. I know that some women are willing to go to war Okay, and that's a whole different scenario. But I'm talking about the women who, again, will just try and hold everything together because they can't really trust anybody else to do it, so they will take it all on their shoulders, and this is such a female trait to do.

Speaker 3 28:38

We are helpers, we are givers, we are servers, and often that means that we end up in a scenario where it's not really the best for us, and so what you're talking about with it would just be so great if we could get this balance right in society, where we're not saying that it needs to go back to the 50s, where there was a chauvinistic idea about things. Nobody's saying that, but it seems to be that we can't get this balance right of men and women and the roles that we play and actually celebrating the roles that men and women play, and that it is okay to be in a relationship where you have different roles and to celebrate those and you can work them out together. That's fine. I'm not saying that. You know there's like a hard and fast rule for everybody. I know that these things differ, but we just are so caught up in our society on. What do you mean?

Speaker 1 29:37

by that, well, I mean Expand on that there's not a hard and fast rule and that you can decide on what the roles are.

Speaker 3 29:44

Well, there's going to be variations for everyone, and I think that has to be okay too, because you know everybody's relationship works differently. But I think there are just a few fundamentals, like you were talking about before. That is the husband's role, for example, to protect you. That's it. I'm not seeing a warrior princess, if someone intruding in our house first person I'm coming to is you, I am not running to get the gun, I'm not running to get the baseball, but I'm running to get you to get those things and for you to deal with the person. I want you to put your body on the front line. I will be with the kids. You know that's a fundamental in my mind. So that's the kind of thing I'm saying. But even that, even that is skewed. I've watched films now where I'm watching boys push girls in front of them to be protecting them and I don't like my girls seeing that, for example, because I think it's messed up. I think it's like skewy.

Speaker 1 30:45

There's a role reversal that's just flat out across all of Western media outlets and movies and shows and everything like that. I 100% think that anybody listening should be very, very aware of what their children, especially their daughters, are watching. I know just sons and daughters, both.

Speaker 1 31:02

Well, sons too, because then Harry's like oh, it's okay, yeah, exactly, that's fine for me to put a girl in for the firing line, putting really the wrong imagery and the wrong kind of message out there, and I really don't care what kind of flucker you get back for that, I just think it's wrong.

Speaker 3 31:17

Yeah. So what I'm saying is it's okay that there are these fundamentals. God put them in place for a reason and it's funny how, really for such a long time, I felt that I carried the spiritual leader, ship role of the family, until you came to know Christ. And now I look at it and I'm so grateful that you're leading that, because it just feels like it is the way it should be. And I probably caught flack for saying that too, but it's just my own experience and it's just very I mean that very genuinely.

Speaker 3 32:00

I felt that it was too heavy for me to carry actually, but I felt so much that I wanted my children to grow up knowing God. But when I experienced resistance from you in that in the beginning I was stressed about it all the time. And then when you came to know God and you took on that role, so like just wholeheartedly, it was like I just took a big breath out and I realized that you had us in that. And it wasn't until later on that I discovered that that's actually the way that God designed it and that's actually the role that he gave to you, and that is my job to be your helper in that. But I really did have a big sigh of relief that it wasn't completely on me.

Speaker 1 32:54

I think that's a very common thing in a lot of women as well, like a lot of girls that have come out of Christian loving homes into the new age these days, when you've got very few men that actually are prepared to go cardinal the boss and submit to someone else, anyone else, especially the Lord and to God, and so because it's confronting for guys, it's really, really.

Speaker 1 33:27

It's like we want to hold the reins, we want that responsibility we think we do until everything starts crumbling around us and then, all of a sudden, we want to offload that real quick and that comes out in the form of victim, the victim mentality. You know, it's not me, it's not my fault. You know I'm a victim, therefore I deserve all these sorts of things. Start rolling out of us real quick stickers, and we don't recognize the sheer amount of screw ups and we are the ones perpetrating as a result of thinking that we're the ones that ought to have all the control, we're the ones that ought to bear all the burden and the glory and everything else that goes along with it, thinking that we ourselves are little mini gods. And we are not. We are so far from it. It's just beyond big belief, and I don't care what Guru says otherwise, it's just not true. We are not mini gods, we are men. That is what we are. We are loved by God, created by God, but we are not gods.

Speaker 1 34:32

And I think it's like. I think it requires a certain amount of hubris for us to actually come to the terms of the fact that there is a problem. The problem is that, as we keep depending on ourselves, we're going to screw it up, and that's why the face of this Western culture and this Western society is so screwed up, because we do think that we are the ones that own all the cards and are able to do it all, that we want to drive this great flying umbrella, and in doing so we cause enormous damage. We don't lead our children. So you've got these beautiful women who want their children to be born up to no Christ, but the husband of the household is like oh you know, if you want to do that, you do that. I don't really believe in that. I'm sitting over here on the fence, or I'm not really going to go there, whatever. Okay, there you go, that's it. So I'm just going to back out of here.

Speaker 3 35:28

I'm going to abdicate that one to my wife.

Recognizing and Leading in Relationships

Speaker 1 35:30

That's right. Well, if she wants to do it, that's fine. I don't really want to. But then he'll be teaching in one direction to the children. She'll be teaching the other direction. So then you've got.

Speaker 3 35:38

It's not even that. It's just a form of indifference there is. There's a massive, just indifference there. He's not going to stop her no, in a lot of these cases, but he's not going to lead. But he's not going to lead, no.

Speaker 1 35:49

But that's the thing, though he is leading.

Speaker 3 35:53

Yeah, exactly what we were saying before If you do nothing, you're still leading Exactly.

Speaker 1 35:56

So he's leading and he's directly objecting without objecting, he's directly coming hard up against whatever it is that she's trying to accomplish in that place, because he is not willing to take up that role and really start to recognize that there is an issue.

Speaker 3 36:17

So what would you say to men who do genuinely want to lead, but are they feel like they're drowning and they just don't know where to start?

Speaker 1 36:27

Recognize there's an issue. Number one admit that there is a problem. If you can truly admit that there is a problem and that you are screwing it up, or you have screwed it up and you continue to screw it up, that's a massive step.

Speaker 3 36:43

Okay, and how might they recognize that they are screwing it up?

Speaker 1 36:49

Yeah, like that they're not leading Look at the evidence of your household, your life and the way that you're leading it. Recognize the effects of your wife is a beautiful indicator. She is the one that will tell you as honestly as her love came permit where you sit inside of that, like when you weren't leading, that I was more chaotic as a person.

Speaker 3 37:22

Be careful, just joking. No, I actually think I was, but I just wanted to see if you can remember.

Speaker 1 37:30

I'm trying to remember what you would like, but there was a lot of.

Speaker 3 37:35

There's a lot more challenges. There was more sadness.

Speaker 1 37:38

Like there was more of a.

Speaker 3 37:41

Not a happy contentment.

Speaker 1 37:42

There was a yearning that I could see that was coming from you. I could feel the desire for something to happen, something to move inside of our relationship, inside of this household, that you were waiting out on and you were praying on, as in you were praying for it to happen and that was yeah, I think that.

Speaker 3 38:14

Like that's a good indicator to see, like how she's a barometer your wife's a barometer for where you're at. Because now I feel very settled as a woman and I feel very loved and safe and cherished. But it's largely because of the actions that you've changed in yourself.

Speaker 1 38:41

But this is the thing. Instead of thinking, what is it that I should do, what should I do to make my wife happy? What should I? Do in this or in that, and it goes back to that. She's not a responsibility, she's a gift. You look at it as a. Where am I not loving the gift? Where am I not? Where does she need me to suffer for love? Where is that?

Speaker 3 39:22

Could you give an example of where you feel like I needed that?

Speaker 1 39:26

Yeah, so one of the things that I think that really that I needed to suffer within our relationship was my presence inside of raising our kids.

Speaker 1 39:47

I was so aloof and away and not present and thinking about basically focusing on how I could manage my own emotional state and the chaos that was going on out in the business and that was consuming me, and then basically then coming and being indifferent to whatever it is that was happening. I would make a good show of it, but it felt depleting to me and then I wanted to go and do my own thing. I just don't understand how tired I was, and so, recognizing that I wasn't suffering for you, but rather I was just suffering because I was consumed with my own coping mechanisms, my own self-centered, self-absorbed idea of what I thought I needed and I needed so much. I felt like I needed something all the time. There was always something new that I needed in order to just sort of keep me going one foot in front of the other. That rule of flip and change of my mindset saw me not always using areas of the farm and of the house as places to retreat from you and the kids.

Speaker 1 41:08

And that was the thing I would want to retreat. I wanted to distance myself, I wanted to distance my mind, I wanted to distance my presence from you and from the kids, unless I wanted something from you, unless I felt the guilt of my responsibility, knocking at the door hard. And then I would like okay, it's time to show up. Now. That's not to say that I was a like. You could say that I wasn't a bad husband In the, I suppose, the gauge of which so I know you're okay, josh, you weren't like really bad, you weren't hitting or anything like that. No, I wasn't.

Speaker 1 41:53

But you could say that, because I was not showing up within the capacity that a man who loves well should do, then something very fundamental was missing, and that was the frame of recognizing the gift. And then, when I understood that, then I was like shit, I've got to open my door, I've got to be present with my kids. I've got to, I've got to play with them, I've got to help my wife when she like she shouldn't even have to ask it, I will help her. You know, keep a tidy house, do what it is that she wants me to do or needs me to do, ask, ask. What does she need, not what do, what does she want, but what does she need.

Speaker 1 42:43

And then fulfill that. You know or make action towards that. Why? Because it might suck, but you do it because you love her.

Speaker 3 42:51

You know, that's the suffering, that's the suffering, and that's just the result.

Speaker 1 42:55

The, the, the result is joy and once, once that that starts to happen and it blows subtle way, then you start to see that you know, you became more peaceful, more trusty, more grounded. Peace was in my mind.

Speaker 3 43:10

There's so much peace. I can't tell you how much peace that gives and how much joy that brings, and how and how grateful you know I was for those things, because they make such a big difference, such a big difference.

Speaker 1 43:24

Yeah, but it's. But really going back to it, pull your hand out, pull your head out of the sand, recognize as an issue, recognize your role as a father and a husband is to hold space for your wife, see her as the gift and be that spiritual leader inside of your household, as well as the provider, as well as the protector. And in these, in these areas, start pursuing, start pursuing your family, start pursuing your wife, start pursuing that love. Learn to suffer for her. Like, recognize that, that you must suffer for love and that's be whether it's your children, your neighbor, your wife. It's, it's all part of the game and it's, it's a beautiful, wonderful way to live, to live, to lead life.

Speaker 3 44:22

And I want to say you know, if you don't know where to start with that, this is. I know you don't talk about it heaps, but this is something that you do help men with and you do teach men. I think it's important that we speak about that because, yeah, I do hear of a lot of men genuinely not knowing how to start.

Speaker 1 44:41

Nobody taught them how to do these things that's right, exactly right, so that that's really important stuff.

Speaker 3 44:46

Because it's all well and good for us to say this.

Speaker 1 44:48

Yes, and then where do you go?

Speaker 3 44:50

And where do you go? You can't just say that and then leave people high and dry. That's right.

Speaker 1 44:54

So so there, and this is this is the key. So if you are, if you are struggling right now, if you are hearing these words and you're a man and you want to pursue this exactly what we were just talking about this way to be a masculine spiritual leader okay, then go to sovereignsonscomau, okay, and look there is the there is. If you're interested in Warrior Week or Warrior Week Australia, if you're interested in the Truth Program, if you're interested in the Crucible and being a sovereign sons member, and you know we can have a conversation, then just yeah, like I said, just go and display your interest, register your interest on the site and then let's hop on a call and let's have a conversation about where you're at and where you're trying to go.

Speaker 3 45:41

Yeah, and if that's too many click buttons away, you can literally just DM myself or Josh on Instagram, because we check our messages on there all the time.

Relationships, Faith, Fitness, Business

Speaker 1 45:50

Correct. So thanks for showing up, guys. That's Josh and Steph signing out. Love you and God bless, and that's a wrap for today. Have you enjoyed our conversation? And if you're a man that feels like you or someone you know is struggling inside the areas of relationships, be that within their family, their faith, their fitness or inside the business, then go to sovereignsonscomau and check out the Crucible Program Until next week. Have a great day. I appreciate you showing up. This is Steph and Josh signing off and we'll catch you next time.