The Sacred Gift at Risk: Marriage Under Attack

Steph is back from a week of leading and ministering to her team of women in her network marketing business — and she’s bringing fresh insights to the table. What has she seen in the lives of the women she walked alongside? And what message does she have for men who may be blind to how their wives truly feel about their marriages — or to the subtle attacks creeping in unnoticed?

Join Josh and Steph as they unpack the ceremony of marriage, why it matters, and how society’s diluted and compromised version of this sacred gift can have devastating consequences if left unchecked.

Transcript

Welcome to Man's Land

Speaker 1 0:02

Hi, I'm Joshua Morawski and welcome to Man's Land, a podcast dedicated to the struggles and celebrations of men of the land, whether you're in a truck, tractor, ute or just kick it back at home. Buckle up, as Steph and I act as a married duo to cover some deep conversations across farming, family, faith and fitness, cultivating some challenging discussions that are essential for men of this great country. G'day everybody, and welcome to another episode of Man's Land.

Speaker 2 0:32

Hello, I'm here too today.

Speaker 1 0:33

Yay, so I finally have my wife back, which is really nice, and one of the things that she's been away for the last week and leading teams of girls over doing the business stuff and really a couple of things I really wanted to talk about today with you for the last week and leading teams of girls over doing the business stuff and really a couple of things I really wanted to talk about today with you. One was what we were discussing before in regards to you being home after being away from us for the last five, six days, seven days, and also I wanted to download with you a couple of the things that I was really taking away from with regards to the conversations that I was holding with these other men yeah, um, which are super impactful. It was a real honor to have them and, um, anyway, but like I really wanted to first of all ask you was like what I found coming home yeah, what you found coming coming home and what you experienced whilst you were away from from us yeah.

Speaker 2 1:29

So the conversation that Josh and I were having before um really touched on the way that I felt being away from my family and, in particular, from my husband, and what I was doing was holding a retreat for other women and you know, in that space, inevitably, people share very vulnerably and when you're one of the facilitators, you're holding that space for people, so you, you know you're, you're creating an environment where they feel safe enough to share, in an environment where they feel safe enough to share really deep things. And a lot of women have suffered a lot in their lives and it is really such an honor to be able to share in an environment where that, you know, a lot of these women don't personally know me or the other facilitators, but they have such a beautiful way of trusting and just being able to let go and of course, that's the environment that we cultivate. But it's very incredible to witness how beautifully women trust each other when they are held and it was just a very positive experience. And also I personally felt slightly vulnerable too and I was sharing this with Josh when I got home that you know I had been away from him and sort of the covering and grounded nature that I get from being in his proximity, like physically close, emotionally, spiritually.

Speaker 2 3:00

All of these things that I don't take them for granted. I'm very, very aware of them, but they became very apparent to me when I was away from you and so I was in this space listening to a lot of women who have suffered a lot of the time at the hands of men and who have been treated absolutely just, like poorly is an understatement like just evil. What these women have experienced and but what I was sharing with josh, was that I I really took that on myself and I felt like, you know, there was a lot of emotion when you, when you hear other women suffer at the hands of men, and even I, at one point I even had a sense of guilt that I hadn't been treated horribly like they, so like so many of these women had been abused by men, and I was just sat there thinking why have I gotten out of that?

Coming Home: Vulnerability and Support

Speaker 2 3:57

you know it was this real thing? So all of these emotions come up. And then you're usually my rock when it comes to that, and I didn't have you there. And speaking on the phone is just not the same thing, because we're flat out busy. We were running off our feet for three or four days straight and I just didn't, yeah, I just I couldn't ground in, even though, having said that, I know that I always have God with me and it's not like that. It wasn't a spiritual thing, it was a relational thing, that I was missing my man, and there's something in that. Even being away from my children, it felt foreign to me, it didn't feel right in a way. And I'm not saying that we shouldn't go and do these things.

Speaker 2 4:46

We absolutely should yeah, I think it's important that, that that you do like if there's the opportunity to do that, then like it is important that that be done, but it takes a toll yeah, there's a price, yeah, it was, and I just, and I came home and you know, basically fell apart in your arms and then I was like thank goodness, because now I'm home, you know, as in, you are my home, no matter where. That is Just to see you and be in your proximity again and to know that I'm held in whatever emotions come up. For me was, yeah, it just became beautifully highlighted how much I appreciate being in a married relationship where I have that gift in you as my husband. Well, it's true, and I felt very sad for the women who I knew were going home, not to that you know, who didn't get to have what I have with you. So, um, yeah, and and there's lots of, I don't know, there's so much about, um, women doing all this stuff in spite of men, or or like being strong. I just, I really can't get on this.

Speaker 2 6:05

It happens actually, in the rural community a lot. There's a lot of celebrating women, because women are amazing, and what I don't like is that I always seem to have to preface this that no one is disputing that, but we celebrate International Women's Day, and I remember speaking at an event oh, actually sorry, I attended this event and I was listening to speakers this time and a lot of the women. Yeah, they were just celebrating, not in a boastful way, but they were celebrating their success, but it just was completely cut away from including their spouse and I sort of came away thinking but hang on, can't we celebrate men and women as a team? And I think in the world and what is happening in society today is that we are being pitted against each other and we celebrate women separately, as a separate entity from men.

Speaker 1 7:03

It's a celebration of the independence.

Women Celebrating Independence

Speaker 2 7:04

Yeah it is, and like obviously we are a separate entity, but I just mean we're celebrating the independence from men like a real we don't need you.

Speaker 1 7:14

well, it's like sort of vibe came in, it's get out from under the covering yeah, yeah, yeah like cut away the covering, cut away, like we don't subscribe to that. We're independent, we're strong, we're free, we'll do what we want and we're proud and and it's like it's really. It's a really unfortunate, very popular ideal that has really grown over the last 20 years.

Speaker 2 7:39

But can I just say I understand where it comes from because not everybody gets the privilege or the blessing of being surrounded by good men.

Speaker 1 7:54

And that's exactly the point.

Speaker 2 7:55

This is why you're so passionate about what you do, and I've had women challenge me on this and they say, well, that's fine for you to say, steph, you have this really wonderful husband, but what about me, who's being beaten by my husband? Can I not celebrate on International Women's Day the fact that I did that in spite of what was done to me? And so I always like to acknowledge that, because that's not really what I'm talking about here, but it does highlight what you're saying, in that these women then have to get up and they have to fight and they have to cover themselves.

Speaker 1 8:33

It's a shame.

Speaker 2 8:34

Because there is not a good man in their life that will do that for them.

Speaker 1 8:38

That's the thing. There's such a depth of pain associated with the very poor leadership that has been displayed within families, within men, because the culture of masculinity has been so far removed to what it was supposed to be. Um, and I think that that's because of this idea of being free and we, we lay our attentions at the foot of so many different idols. This is something I was talking to Brian BQ Davis on our interview together, which is something I wanted to talk to you about, but it was really emphasized. We worship idols in every other aspect, when we're supposed to be developing these spiritual disciplines and being grounded in the word so that we can serve and steward what we've been blessed with, which is the family you know and it's like you have a marriage.

Speaker 1 9:43

That's such a blessing. If you have, you know marriage is a blessing. We've we've basically been taught, trained and educated today that it's a ball and chain.

Speaker 2 9:55

Yeah, yeah. That's the story, that's the rhetoric.

Speaker 1 9:58

It is and everyone makes a joke but it's like no hang on a second. What has been done to ensure that the relationship that you're fostering bears fruit, that is good and that you know there is a good reality to it? Are you living it out?

Speaker 2 10:19

I saw a guy who is from Kingsmen and he was saying he was speaking to these men and he was saying you identify your role as protector and provider but you just think that's money in the bank account and if we get mugged at, you know the closest IGA, then I'll be the one to protect my wife. And what he explained was those two roles go so much deeper than that. Protector and provider, you know. Protector of the home, as in the culture of your home and what you allow into your family, and protector of your you know your daughters, for example.

Speaker 1 11:03

Like what we're just doing now, which is like looking over the shoulder of what they're watching on television and like we're sticklers for it and people think we're a bit weird, but it's a really important conversation. I think it really needs to get out. There is you you know what you're allowing your children to watch and things like.

Redefining Protector and Provider

Speaker 1 11:17

That's a different conversation, but it's like that's part of it that's part of it, and you're gonna put your, you'll be able to not relent, yeah, just because they chuck a wobbly at you and go no, hang on a second. This is, this is my house. You are under my covering. You will not watch that kind of stuff. Like that's not for you and provider.

Speaker 2 11:34

He then extended into provider of the um sanctuary for your wife's heart and for her to be at the um center and only pinnacle of your sexual desire. And there was more, but there was an extension, an extension, an extension, extension of what those two roles really mean. And it was beautiful because it was so much more than this very whittled down, very simplified back Diluted.

Speaker 2 12:13

Version of what your role as a man is in the family home, in a marriage unit, in all of these aspects that you know society is trying to attack. And yet if we try and celebrate that, if we try and say that that's good, then I really think that at the moment, in our day and age, you know, I just had a conversation with a woman the other day who was quite offended by maybe offended's not the right word, but she was she was affronted by, um, the conversation of men leading the home yeah, I get that all the time.

Speaker 2 12:54

Really, really upset and I, you know, I tried to explain to her that you know, we're not talking about who's doing the dishes here, which is where this always comes back. Oh, my husband and I, we're equal in the way we raise our children. We're equal in the way we run our home. He vacuums. I do do the dishes. We both speak to our children about discipline, not what we're talking about here. It's far deeper than that yet somehow, when we discuss that, it's offensive to people. It's offensive to both women and men, because I think we've had this, you know the women that I spoke to it. Just, it always depends on on the context of where people are coming from also yeah, which is a lot of life experience, it's pain exactly it's

Speaker 1 13:40

pain and there's a and with the pain, there's a chaos and an uncertainty that arrives at the door and it's like, well, when you have chaos and uncertainty, you're basically acting out of emotion, and when that emotion comes to the door, you've got chaos, because emotion isn't logical. But it's like we've been running the narrative for such a long time now that if you try and speak this, it's not only taboo, it's almost persecuted. You're pilloried for it.

Speaker 2 14:15

we're going to be marginalized for this kind of a way of thinking, well and truly, which I've been talking to you about lately yeah, but I think it's because people are like they can't see themselves in a successful version of that no, especially you know like, and to bring it back to what you were talking about before, it's because we're in a society now where things went too far one way for a long time and now we've done an absolute overreach the other way and now we've got a confused society about where men and women sit together in harmony and how we have these beautiful differences that celebrate one another when we work together with those differences I think the the word harmony is really important and it can't be stressed enough because, really, like, what do you want?

Speaker 1 15:12

do you want that? Like it's funny how many people want the fast-paced life with the glitz and the glamour until they get it and then it's empty and it's like you know, the greatest gift really is what I this is what, like a mentor of mine said is just to have a peaceful life, a peaceful life for a man to have a peaceful life, a peaceful life for a man.

Speaker 1 15:32

To have a peaceful life not an easy life, but a peaceful life is. You know, if you can achieve that, you've really done well, and you know that takes a real stewardship to be able to do that, which is extremely hard, because everything is going against you, everything is trying to distract you, everything is trying to tear away your attention and your attempts to get to that point and we run for comfort as a nice little substitute for peace.

Speaker 2 16:07

And you know what's quite interesting is that I spoke to a lot of women who have the fast pace like you're talking about. They have the independence and they have the. You know we all have now the ability to make money ourselves and you know many of us do that. Many of us don't rely on a single income household and you know there are pros and cons of that. But what was interesting is one of the women I really look up to and she's really savvy with investing and decentralizing money and all of these. You know, things that seem quite far out for me to think about because I don't really I don't really enjoy numbers. She just said to me well, I really wish my husband would take care of that part of it for me. Now, that just may be a personal preference, I get that but she was like, do you know how much I crave just to be taken care of? And I was really shocked because she's outwardly very conscious of helping women have financial security, because she knows so many women who have been hurt by men.

Speaker 2 17:27

And so I would never take away and say that that's not important, because I do believe that is because now, knowing a lot of women in their work, that I do many of them, you know just as an example, have had to stay in an abusive relationship because they simply don't have the means to get out of it. So there is a place for that, but if you have the privilege to be taken care of, it is a beautiful thing, and there is a relaxing into one's femininity that I think we crave.

Speaker 1 18:00

Um, yeah, we crave in this day and age where we're expected to hustle that's right, and as women, we're expected to hustle which is a very masculine thing to do yeah, really masculine which is like which is the irony around feminism? Is that feminism is actually masculine. Masculine, exactly it's not feminine at all.

Speaker 2 18:21

No.

Marriage as Sacred Covenant

Speaker 1 18:22

It's just that it's a drive towards this idea of empowerment and independence from men, based around pain. It's based around the pain associated with the failed leadership and stewardship of men, and I do not like. I can't take that away from them. I can't dispute that because it is absolutely there. You know it's like. This is a message for men. All in all, it's a message for men.

Speaker 2 18:58

Yeah.

Speaker 1 18:59

You know, if you look at, you know again what we were talking about. On one of our conversations with Brian BQ he was sort of saying you know, this is where the problem stems from, this is where the problem stems from.

Speaker 1 19:20

You know it stems from this, this failed or weak leadership of men. You know, this desire for men to either retreat, run away, whatever it might be, um to not ask for help. You know, I just had another, uh, another, another conversation, um and uh, with another another man that's. He's coming on, blake burke, and he said, you know, like just I asked him what are the, what are the, what are a couple of really important things you'd like the audience to hear? And he said tell the truth and ask for help.

Speaker 1 19:51

And I love that I that's it. That's it which is going to be I'm releasing that conversation next week. But it's so true, men go through so much pain, we go through so much. There's so many stories, there's so many traumas. They can be very subtle and the desire to all, the shame associated with asking for help, runs deep, and so I sort of, when I look at that, when I listen to those sorts of words, that when I listen to those sorts of words, then we sort of start to see the follow-on effects, which is like what Hugh Beveridge was talking about.

Speaker 1 20:41

I was talking with Hugh Beveridge about which is the state of the nation. It's the result of the passivity because men are checked out and they're not standing at the gates guarding that. We see, um, you know, weak households, distracted children and wives. We see families breaking apart, but then we see, uh, you know, poor policy, nobody's looking at what's happening and standing up and fighting against the, basically the, the country being held hostage over ideologies that make no sense and they are chaotic and they are there to destroy. And it's like well, we've got a beautiful nation here, we've got a beautiful bit of land, it's full of beautiful resources, it's covered in this massive capacity and potential, and yet here we are letting it all go, paying more taxes than just about any other country on the face of this planet. And and you're thinking like we like- why why?

Speaker 1 21:46

why? Well, it's because we've been fooled and it's because we've been told a lie, and we've slowly been drip drip fed this because we weren't standing guard. Yeah, we weren't staying up. We let the guard down. Yeah, we let it down. Um. Another really good conversation I was having was with um was with a couple around marriage you know, and I was talking about what marriage is, just asking the question do you know what marriage is? And they're like oh yeah, of course I know what marriage is Like. Okay, so do you know?

Speaker 2 22:21

like how would you say that? How would?

Speaker 1 22:23

you say you know what marriage is, and because I think that the culture of marriage is under attack has been you know, and I'm going to get done for this, but marriage is between a man and a woman.

Speaker 1 22:36

That's it. It's not between a man and a man. It can't be. It's simply put. That's not in alignment with the very word. Marriage is a very specific thing. The ceremonies and what we attribute marriage to is very specific. The intention behind it. When a woman who is under their father is handed over to a husband or to be husband, that is a very powerful thing because you've got the father and, as a father of daughters, I'm covering them, like we were saying at the beginning of this conversation.

Speaker 2 23:20

Covering them is protecting, providing, presiding over them, um, and they are precious to me I think a better word than handing them over, because I know that's going to trigger people. It's like what it is is entrusting another man.

Speaker 1 23:35

Well, that's right Okay.

Speaker 2 23:37

So put it that way I have to do this with my husband. I have to interpret what he means because, people I know. I know what you mean. I'm just elaborating for you because I know exactly what you mean. It's the.

Speaker 1 23:49

Well, like, okay, but let's call that out for what it is okay If Well, okay, but let's call that out for what it is okay If someone gets triggered and it's like, oh, so we're a commodity, it sounds possessive.

Speaker 2 23:57

Yeah, it sounds like. I own that and I'll hand it over. No, it's because you're underneath. I'm just telling you how I'm going to come across.

Speaker 1 24:04

I get it, but I'm coming from as a father of daughters, yeah, all right. So if you're getting triggered by that, I'm sorry, but I've got no time for that, because I'm coming from the love and the and and what I what I see is my duty as a father and, yes, I'm handing them, I'm handing that responsibility, I'm handing that that that stewardship the responsibility, yeah to another man and that's like buddy, you, you better be on point, because this is the most precious thing.

Speaker 1 24:39

Now I'm calling out the flippancy in which we handle the ceremony of marriage here.

Speaker 1 24:48

Because people would take more care, more time, more attention and intention, handing over a portion of their business, handing over their favorite boat or some materialistic thing. They would take more care, they would have more to do, that's true. They would fight more vehemently to ensure that they weren't shortchanged or whatever, act more vehemently to ensure that they weren't shortchanged or whatever. But when it comes to their daughters, when it comes to their sons, how do we raise the son? How do we raise the daughter, so that they don't go looking for what just makes them click in the flesh, so that they go ahead and make all the mistakes that we make? But how do we present them in a way that they find that deeper connection, that matrimony that is truly, that brings the virtue out of the male, brings the virtue out of the young man to go? I want to cover you. I want to cover you. I want to provide and protect you. I want you to feel certain and secure with me and I want your father to see how much I want to do that.

Speaker 2 25:59

And I think something else to point out too is that we get so caught up on this I don't know, because of the way that our society is, we get really caught up in the terminology of oh well, the roles of what it means to be a man, but in all truth, I wouldn't want the job. No, because when you understand it from a Christian perspective, it's the same. It's likened to the way that Christ loved the church.

Speaker 2 26:31

That's right, which means to lay down your life for your wife, that's right, and your church, that's right which means to lay down your life for your wife, that's right. And your family. That's right. So it's just.

Speaker 1 26:40

That's our charge.

Speaker 2 26:41

Yeah, it's a whole lot more than this. I don't know this attitude that gets kind of thrown across of like well, my husband just gets to be the boss of me.

Speaker 1 26:51

Yeah, it's like a muscle-up kind of.

Speaker 2 26:52

It's not like that. That's not what we're saying and that's not a harmonious marriage if you're in a marriage where you're married to a tyrant but that seems to be what, like, a lot of people get triggered because they think or they're so used to hearing the negative masculine and they think, oh, that must be what they mean by that. Instead, it's a calling to lay down your life for the people who you love and you've committed.

Speaker 1 27:26

Part of your duty. Yeah, it's a duty.

Speaker 2 27:29

And it's kind of like there is no. I don't mean to say there is no choice in that, but that's the choice you make when you commit to the marriage, that's right. When you enter into that covenant between you and the woman and God, that's then what that means, like it's very serious.

Speaker 1 27:45

It's very serious.

Addressing Passive Masculinity

Speaker 1 27:47

And the thing is is it's like we have taken the weight out of it, we've taken the consequences and thrown them to the wind out of a sense of liberty. It's like I'm sorry, but when you're trapped with all the emotional baggage and distraction and the chaos associated with your third wife, or whatever it might be, and all the kids and all the things that go along with that, that ain't liberty to me. That's the opposite, that's slavery. You've just gone ahead and you've subscribed to the wrong way of approaching this and we're leading our children into the same kind of thought process. And it's not popular, it's not easy, but the effects are profound. There needs to be a depth of honesty, there needs to be a depth of harmony, there needs to be a depth of union between husband and wife that works together in collaboration, equal but different, to establish a strong household rooted and grounded in what is good, which is Christ, and led by the father and who's supported and helped by the mother.

Speaker 1 29:18

Different roles Don't think that just because it's leadership means it's better. Or boss, sorry, that's just a misconception and it's an idea based on the corporate boss, man in power, hierarchy kind of thing. You don't necessarily want to be the CEO of a major corporation. I don't, if I wanted to, why. That's what I'm saying as the woman, I don't want your role.

Speaker 1 29:56

No.

Speaker 2 29:57

I don't want your role.

Speaker 1 29:58

But I ask anybody that says they would or they should or they could, but why would you want to? You know it's like oh, how, about a billion dollars? Why would you want to? Because I want to be able to buy some nice things. Okay, that's nice. You don't have to have a billion dollar. We're talking like a billion dollar corporation or something like that. That requires a depth of understanding of that's, a diligence and a lifetime of work and if, like it's, you don't know what that's like yeah do you really want to bring all that into your life?

Speaker 1 30:25

that's a whole lot of chaos. Sure it has some perks, but so does not having that you know, and it, like everyone's like, it's almost like a greed. It's almost like a greed or this addiction to power that undermines so many of these things it comes from. It seems to come from outside sources. That's what I see.

Speaker 2 30:51

So you know. Well, I have a question. Oh, okay, outside sources, that's what I see. So you know I have a question. Oh, okay, if you. Only because I, I, you know, these conversations always bring up lots of conversations between my friends and I, and you know what would you say if, for example, you and I have the personalities and the relationship where we're quite, we're quite comfortable in those traditional roles?

Speaker 2 31:20

Um, like, obviously I discipline my kids all day long, but if there's a real sort of, if there's a really big issue, I will happily bring it to you and be like babe, I need you to weigh in on this it's's, it's, I need like some, I need some dad vibes behind it. You know, but what if you are married to a really passive man and that's just part of his personality and he doesn't, he doesn't carry that. You know that, really, that leadership quality, you know. And then inevitably and this is what I see a lot of the times inevitably the wife then has to step into that role because she's not married to a person who takes, takes up that charge and and, right or wrong, it just is what it is sometimes.

Speaker 1 32:10

So what's the question?

Speaker 2 32:11

Well, the question is, what would you say to a woman who's in a relationship like that, or what would you well, or maybe better yet what would you say to the husband?

Speaker 1 32:19

yeah, I wouldn't be talking to. To her, I mean, I understand where she's coming from and it's a shame it is. To the husband I'd say you have to make a decision because there are your. Your passivity is a result of trauma. That trauma is something that's affecting not only your life but all that you steward. Just because you're a passive man doesn't mean that you're not a powerful leader, and that powerful leadership that you're displaying in the form of passivity is having a very powerful effect on everybody around you, not necessarily a very good one.

Speaker 2 32:57

So you're really calling them forward.

Speaker 1 33:00

Absolutely 100%. It's a matter of.

Speaker 2 33:03

Like you can't just rest on the fact that you think you're a quiet person.

Speaker 1 33:06

No, no. Quiet man, quiet men. There is nothing wrong with a quiet man, a gentle man, but that's very different to a passive man. A passive man is checked out. A passive man avoids conflict at any chance. He will go above and beyond to move himself out of the line of fire at any moment. A passive man is afraid of self-reflection in the face of the greatest reflector, which is his wife. He will not stand it. He will do anything to run from it. That's cowardice.

Speaker 2 33:42

I mean we can talk about that. The job of the wife is to be a reflection to her husband. That's right, yes, Okay, I'll have a look, okay.

Speaker 1 33:54

Okay, go inside and I'll have a look okay, all right we'll go and have a look in a second.

Speaker 2 34:01

Sorry guys, we've just had a little man who's just joined us for a moment and now he's off again, so um so yeah, you I'll sort that, but you, you explain, because this is something that I I know we're probably going over time, but this is something that I, um I do have conversations with my friends about, when they do have something that's really they would really like to bring to their husband, but they're they they're scared of sort of being that mirror, and I think actually of sort of being that mirror and I think actually, I think actually helping them, um, embrace that, that's their role yeah is a really positive thing, and maybe you can just explain from the men's perspective what that might look like, because it might not be interpreted.

Speaker 2 34:48

You know what I mean, oh yeah.

The Path Forward for Men

Speaker 1 34:50

I mean, all in all, a guy's got to wake up a bit, and I don't say that that's not an offhand comment. To wake up or to become aware of what is happening is so damn important. You have to decide whether it comes down to a decision. This is another thing that the conversation I was having with Blake Burke about this. We'll talk about that later on another podcast but really it comes down to a decision. There's a fork in the road in the moment when your wife is becoming distant to you or she is unhappy, doesn't want to touch you. If you haven't had sex in you don't know how long, if you don't feel the love anymore, if you would rather be away from your wife rather than be with her, with your wife, there's something wrong and you know. You've got to be honest to yourself about that. You have to recognize that. So tell the truth.

Speaker 1 35:48

The more you tell the truth, the more honesty you can discern about the situation. And then you've got to ask for help. There is nothing wrong with asking for help, but you've got to make sure it's good help. The only thing I would say is the only good help that there is is help that's rooted in what is biblical, because there is a wisdom of depth in there that is profoundly masculine and speaks directly to us. So the grounding that occurs through the practice of that is profound. That occurs through the practice of that is profound. But, that said, it's like the first step really. Really, you've got to get honest. You've got to realize that that's not what this is.

Speaker 1 36:41

But I think that one of the biggest victories that the enemy has had over this culture of marriage is the narrative established narrative that happy marriages or marriage is meant to be a pain in the ass and that you know, yeah, you, you go home together and there are certain things you do together, but all in all it's it's more or less a.

Speaker 1 37:05

You know, it's the ball and chain, it's the. When do I get to get away from them? Okay, the only thing that I'm drawn back to is you know, to have sex or some other such thing. You know you might miss them for a bit, but it's like that's important, like you've got to realize that that's not how it is supposed or designed to be, that to be with her and to steward the relationship well is a duty that we have to take up, and we have to be honest that the way that it sits right now doesn't look like the way it should or the way that you would even like it to be. So you know that's the that's really got to be. Your first, first port of call is to call yourself out and to call.

Speaker 2 37:55

Call it for what it is yeah, and maybe, maybe you already just said that, but that recognizing, recognizing what that is when your wife is acting like that, because it's easy to mistake it for oh, she does this or she does that, or you know, she's just nagging. It's like all these things that we have been it looks like nagging. Yes.

Speaker 1 38:24

It looks like nagging. It looks like nagging, yes, it looks like nagging, it looks like mistrust. It looks like just a bit of chaos.

Speaker 2 38:33

That's her trying to show you something that she's no longer sure how to tell you.

Speaker 1 38:36

That's right, because she doesn't even know what she's doing in that moment either. She just knows that she feels a certain way, and that's how she'll respond is with her feelings.

Speaker 2 38:46

Something's not right yeah.

Speaker 1 38:48

Men need to start being trained on how to discern what that means and what to do with it.

Speaker 2 38:57

Yeah.

Speaker 1 38:57

Rather than running away from it because it's a pain in the ass.

Speaker 2 39:01

Yes, which I think is actually seen as we're closing up the conversation now, would be a very good yeah. It would just, it would be. I mean, we talk about this training, we talk about, we talk. This is what I. You know, I do get frustrated with listening to podcasts. I love podcasts, but I'm like also, at the end of the day, where do people go? Yeah, with this. Yeah, and which is why I I do, you know, love talking about warrior week, because it is exactly the training that you're talking about and it's very practical. It's in it. It really calls men forward, but it also gives them the skills to do that, because not every man is wired to be able to see the forest from the trees. Not every man has had the emotional stability in their childhood to then grow up and hold space for somebody else.

Speaker 1 39:49

And most men are wallowing so much in their own chaos and they're in their own pain, which they've numbed down to a deafening silence, that they can't recognize, they can't operate, they can't hold space for anybody else.

Speaker 2 40:04

Yeah, they need somebody, they need help hold space for anybody else.

Speaker 1 40:06

Yeah, they need somebody, they need help.

Speaker 1 40:08

Yeah, they just need help. Yeah, that's it. It doesn't matter if you're you know. It doesn't matter who you are. It doesn't. We're all men. We're all built the same in some way. Come as you are. Whether you've done it doesn't matter what you've done. This is the thing. It doesn't matter if you're embarrassed to speak about you know the state of your marriage, or whether you've done you know you've cheated or whatever it's like. These things are a result of a lack of you know, a lack of being led and a lack of Well, a lack of somewhere to go.

Speaker 2 40:44

Yeah, a lack of community and men, a lack of somewhere to go. Yeah, a lack of community and men, and I just Establishing a standard, yeah. And like gone are the days of just Like. I just constantly hear this rhetoric of you know, just get down the pub with your mates, but at the pub with your mates, no one's talking about this stuff?

Speaker 1 40:59

No, they're not.

Speaker 2 40:59

And this is the thing.

Speaker 1 41:00

It's a constant mental health thing and I know we're going to wrap this up, but I would say we call it mental health.

Closing Thoughts and Resources

Speaker 1 41:18

It is the health of our culture, our masculine culture and the lack of the masculine spiritual man that we are seeing the face of and the result of it is bearing a certain type of fruit and, like you said, going down the pub and having a beer might chase away the blues for an evening. But that's not the answer. There is one answer and you don't need Warrior Week for it. Warrior Week is a means to get to that. It's just a place, it's just a space, a container of men holding space for other men and taking them through and helping them see and answer questions that they are asking. We're all asking questions of ourselves. Are we prepared to receive the answers revealed to us?

Speaker 2 42:16

exposed to us through the eyes of others who want nothing else but to be able to help, yeah, so if you do want to come to Warrior Week, no, look, I mean, yeah, I mean. Well, I just mean, I just want men to have a place to go, yes, and that's it.

Speaker 1 42:31

So Worry Week guys, if you're listening to this and this is something that's sort of hitting a nerve, if it's hitting a nerve or you hear something in this, or you know, maybe you know somebody okay who needs to hear this message. Okay, we have an event that is starting up in January, middle of January. No, sorry, it's middle of February, middle of February. So there's time. Reach out to us. Reach out to us, please, and just shoot us a message. You can find us on Instagram. You can find us on our email. You can email us directly, which?

Speaker 2 43:17

is.

Speaker 1 43:18

Which is manslandpodcast at gmailcom.

Speaker 2 43:23

So you know, please just reach out just tell the truth and ask for help tell the truth and ask for help. I would like that.

Speaker 1 43:31

Thanks guys thanks guys, thank you.