Breaking OWCP with Chris & Gini

(Chats 4-17-19) - The Woodshed: Filing Claims Without Fear

• Chris & Gini Helms

Share episode

Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.

0:00 | 1:08:00

1. Why Claims Get Denied: The Doctor Problem

Chris identifies six categories of medical professionals who frequently (and often unintentionally) cause federal claims to be denied because they lack OWCP-specific training:

  • Family Practice Doctors: Don't understand the complex narrative requirements.
  • Chiropractors (Non-Specialized): Often miss the medical connection needed by DOL.
  • Urgent Care Centers: Frequently use Nurse Practitioners; DOL requires an MD signature for forms to be valid.
  • Specialists (Surgeons): Focused on surgery, not the administrative "medical rationale" required for claim acceptance.
  • ER Doctors: Too busy for the multi-page narrative reports needed.
  • VA Doctors: Excellent clinicians, but not trained in the specific "Fed Comp" system.


2. The CA-10: Your Legal Roadmap

The CA-10 is the official instruction manual for what a federal employee should do when injured.

  • The Legend of the Bulletin Board: By law, this form must be posted on the employee bulletin board, yet almost no one sees it.
  • Immediate Action: You must report injuries immediately to secure benefits like COP (Continuation of Pay).


3. The "Shall" Rule: CA-16 and Initial Choice

Chris highlights two powerful laws found in the Code of Federal Regulations (CFR):

  • CA-16 (Authorization for Examination): If you have a traumatic injury (CA-1), management shall issue this form within 4 hours. It pays medical bills for 60 days even if the claim is eventually denied.
  • Initial Choice of Physician: You have the legal right to choose your doctor. Management cannot force you to see "their" doctor or a contract facility like Concentra.


4. Five Ways to Fight Back Against Management

If management "wrongfully impedes" a claim (which is a federal crime), Chris provides a five-point checklist for protection:

  1. File a Grievance: Build a "mountain of grievances" to force agency compliance.
  2. Contact EAP: Use Employee Assistance to mediate or document the stress of the situation.
  3. File an EEO: If you are being targeted or harassed, call an EEO expert to see if you have a claim.
  4. Call OSHA (1-800-321-OSHA): Employees have a right to report injuries. If a supervisor prevents you from filing or orders you into a dangerous situation, it is a safety violation.
  5. NLRB (National Labor Relations Board): File a complaint regarding labor board violations.


Important Statistics

Chris highlights the disparity between workers' perceived injury rates and official acceptance rates:

  • The 1-out-of-19 Stat: In 2018, only 1 out of every 19 federal employees had an accepted claim (roughly 5.2%).
  • Social Security Administration: Acceptance rates were as low as 1 out of 50.
  • Perceived vs. Actual: While employees estimate that 50% to 90% of their coworkers have work-related conditions, the lack of training leads to an "underwhelming" number of attempted and accepted claims.



Website for Locations. www.federalinjurycenters.com
Contact: 877-787-OWCP or message us Facebook
To Buy The Book: www.breakingowcp.com
To Email information: Info@federalinjurycenters.com
Find Us on Facebook, YouTube, LinkedIn, Instagram @
Wednesday Night OWCP Chats with Chris & Gini

SPEAKER_01

Welcome back to the Breaking O WCP podcast. Join Chris and Jeannie as they bring you expert advice on Federal WorkersConf guiding you step by step to get back to work the right way. Let's break down the barriers and get you the help you deserve.

SPEAKER_03

Hey everybody, welcome to Wednesday Night OWCP Chats live in our quick view of Dr. Donegan and the staff. We have Lucy, Carlissa, and Alicia as the practice manager. We're really excited to be here in Birmingham. We've been really busy this week, as you guys all know.

SPEAKER_00

And as you all know, because you've heard me before, I don't control the Wi-Fi powers that come from above. And we're definitely gonna turn the volume again, like always. The first topic that we're talking about is why are so many claims denied? And by the way, if I look like I'm not looking into the camera, it's because I'm not. There's people here, and I'm talking to them as well. Which makes this a lot more interesting for me. Alright, let's move around. And uh, how many people do you know that you can just think of at work that have some sort of a work-related injury and aren't talking about it? Aren't trying to do anything about it, they're not trying to pursue it. Super, super easy. It's not overwhelming, it's underwhelming. The easiest thing, I said this today, I was too teaching a class. The easiest thing in a typical work day for any federal employee is filing a work injury claim. The thing you do for a living is hard. But file that if you have, I'm sorry that you heard of ACS, because ACS is terrible. And somebody at DOL should be listening because ACS is terrible. So you get to this website, which is hard to find, you get to the link on the page, which is hard to find, you get through three pages next, and then you got to know something about healthcare to know which kind of doctor you're looking for. And then when you get your list of doctors, you have to call and hear no, because they don't want this. But somebody in their billing office signed them up for DOL and thought that was a good idea, but the doctor didn't want it. So why don't doctors want it? Doctors don't want it because they think OWCP sucks. Just like you think. They think it because DOL, Department of Labor, doesn't pay them. And doctors like to get paid for the stuff they do. Alright, fine. But they don't get paid by DOL, and so they say federal workers' comp is terrible. But really, that's the fault of the doctor. When they don't get paid, it's because they're doing a bad job. And when they do a bad job, guess what else happens? Your claims get denied. And so, like, our specialty is getting those claims accepted, is writing the kind of narrative that gets claims accepted. But these doctors don't do that. So there are six categories of doctors that get claims denied. Would you like to know about them?

SPEAKER_06

Yes, I'm not.

SPEAKER_00

You're gonna be very frustrated when I'm finished. Family practice doctors get claims denied. So everybody's got a primary care or at least knows of one? Denied. Chiropractors, not ours, get claims denied. They don't know anything about this. Urgent care centers get claims denied. You know why? Because they use nurse practitioners most of the time. Nurse practitioners can't sign your forms without an MD. Denied. Even if they're great reports, they're denied, it doesn't matter. The denial letter comes back and says, specifically, your claim is denied because it was signed by a nurse practitioner. We don't care if it was a really great report. So, family practice doctors, chiropractors, nurse practitioners, specialists. Their specialty is deny claims. That's what they do best in OWCP because they're not trained to do OWCP. They're trained to do surgery and nerve testing and whatever else. But their specialty isn't this. So they get claims denied. ER doctors have a mile long of patients to help. They don't have time to write five-page narrative reports. Come on in. So ER doctors get claims denied because they don't have time for this. And then the last category of doctor, which pains me to say that gets claims denied, is VA doctors. VA doctors are world-class doctors, in most cases, some of the best doctors in the world, but they're not trained on OWCP. And so when you go to a VA doctor, your claim gets denied. So who does that leave? That's everyone. The only doctors that are left are the ones that were trained by me. And there's one here.

SPEAKER_06

It's another one.

SPEAKER_00

Which other one?

SPEAKER_06

It is the departmental label either the post office, a second opinion of. They will deny you.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, I thought you were about to tell me second opinion doctors are good for you.

SPEAKER_06

Oh no.

SPEAKER_00

No, they're not. Their whole job is to make this thing go away.

SPEAKER_04

Is that right?

SPEAKER_00

Right, that's exactly right. That's a very good point. Second opinion doctors. They're not, they just made number seven on my list.

SPEAKER_03

Don't forget to share our video on your Facebook groups.

SPEAKER_00

So, let's deal with the first thing first. People don't report injuries because they don't know how. Okay? So, in my hand, and I'll email this to anybody that wants it. Many of you have sent your emails to me and not received your email yet. Just be patient. I'm doing my thing here. Send me your email addresses, give them to her at the end. I'll give you this entire packet if you like. Okay? But this form, if you can see it from that far, this is called a CA10. They're at the bottom. It says CA10 right here. What a federal employee should do when injured at work. Who has seen that? Let the record show one person has their hand raised. That's one more than normal.

unknown

Oh, yeah, they heard.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. So almost nobody knows what a CA10 is. This form was, oh, there you go, pass those out. So this form was last revised 32 years ago. That's the law for 32 years. And at the bottom of this form it says post on employees bulletin board. Nobody's ever seen it post on their bulletin board? Come on now. 32 years? Alright, so check this out. So this is a law, and the law says post on employees' bulletin board. So what can you all do tomorrow when you get to work? Post on your bulletin board. And if somebody takes it down, what else can you do? Put it back up.

SPEAKER_07

Make copies.

SPEAKER_00

Put it back up. No, you don't have to make copies. This is a beautiful thing. So federal injury centers.com, that's our website. Federal Injury Centers with an S at the end of it. Federal Injury Centers. At the top of the page is a red forms tab. And if you click it, you can get all the CA tins you want. You don't have to go look for them, you don't have to keep stacks of them. I'll put a form. All you gotta do is just go to our website and print these CA tins. And every form you can want is on that website. So we did that to make it easier for federal employees who have a hard time with forms. Guess what everyone has a hard time with? Forms. So thing number one is they're on our website. But the CA 10, this is what you do when you get hurt at work. Who thinks if you knew the instructions on what to do, your odds of getting a claim accepted would be better? So people don't know this stuff. Okay? Everyone's raising their hands. So it's broken down into five easy, simple, underwhelming parts. This is not overwhelming, this is not hard. So except for the first part. Step one in this form says report to your supervisor. So which one of you in here loves working with our supervisor? Nobody's raising their hand. And that's common. And it's unfortunate. If management would be friendlier and easier to work with, then employees that are that report to management would be less disgruntled, more willing to come back to work even when they're injured, and would be happy during the course of getting better and then get better. And it's just this endless, ugly cycle. But reporting to your supervisor is number one. Now, for some agencies, it's reporting to HR. Somebody, some of them have injury comp departments or workers' comp departments. If you have a workers' comp department, their job is to get your claim denied. And if any of you are watching, you already know it's true. So it says report to your supervisor, but it says report as soon as possible. What does that mean? It means now. Let me tell you why it means now. Because if you go down to the second paragraph, the second paragraph says two things. It says tell your supervisor to authorize care with a CA 16. That's number one. Who knows what a CA 16 is? Alright, so two people in here know what a CA 16 is. So everybody out there that didn't raise your hand, and everybody in here, a CA 16 pays your bills for 60 days. Does that sound good or good? So you get hurt, your claim's not accepted, and it pays your bills, and even if it's never accepted, you don't have to pay it back. So you think getting a CA 16 is a good deal?

SPEAKER_07

Yes.

SPEAKER_00

Right here it says get one, but your supervisors say no. I got some laws in here that's gonna fix that. Okay? Because the supervisor's not above the law. So it tells you to get a CA 16. Now you can't have a CA 16 if your injury developed over two or more shifts. If it happened in a single shift, you're eligible for a CA 16. And they're required to give it to you within four hours of you asking for it. The law actually says within four hours of the injury. It doesn't even say you have to ask for it. But let's go ahead and ask for it. Okay? And then when they don't give it to you within four hours of your request, what should you do? Four hours and one minute. Who here's in a union? Just about everybody. Who's a steward? Okay. File a grievance. File a grievance. Even if it seems painful to file a grievance, let me explain why. Because it's gonna take a mountain of grievances to fix this problem. It's gonna take a mountain of penalties to make this stop because this isn't an overnight problem that just happened. Nobody gets CA 16s. You don't even know what they are. Your coworkers are walking around injured, and they don't know that somebody else could be paying their bills. So now this will blow your mind. Why is it important to have somebody else pay your bills? 2018, by almost all accounts, was the worst year in the last 20 years in the following statistic. One out of 19 federal employees had an accepted claim. One out of nineteen. If you had to guess, what percentage of people that you work with do you think have some sort of work-related condition? What do you think? I'm serious, what do you think?

SPEAKER_06

90%.

SPEAKER_00

I hear that all the time. What do you think?

SPEAKER_06

Upwards of 90 plus.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. So here's what I hear. At least 50%? So at least 50% would be roughly 10 out of 19, 9 out of 19, right? 1. 1. Now at the Postal Service, I think you're doing a little better. I think it was like 1 out of, I can't remember, 7, maybe, 1 out of 12? Not bad. Actually horrible. Okay? It's terrible. Who has a harder job? No offense to all the other agencies, but who has a harder job than postal employees? That is an incredibly hard job. But at the VA, it was one out of 19. At Social Security, it was one out of 50. Okay? And that is mostly due to not knowing how to get a claim even started. See, OSHA only measures accepted claims. They don't measure denied claims, and they don't measure claims that were never attempted. And people are losing their rights and all their benefits by not even trying. So, would it be a big deal, a good thing, to have your bills paid for 60 days, considering you need to be that one that gets their claim accepted? Okay? So you gotta start enforcing the CA 16 rule. Okay, and it's in this packet exactly which law says they have to give it to you and that they have to give it to you in four hours. That's right. Now, the second part of that second paragraph says you can choose your own doctor. Now you may have heard that rumor and you may think that's not true, but who's heard that you have to go to the doctor they tell you to go to? Anybody ever even heard said? Okay. Yeah. Who's seen people that were sent to an urgent care? Yeah. So that nurse practitioner can sign stuff.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, that's brilliant, right? Nurse practitioner, denied.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, that's denied.

SPEAKER_00

So this thing right here, the CA 10, a 32-year-old law, says you have the right to choose your own doctor. But if you're not, if you don't believe this, which is law, I have the law from the Code of Federal Regulations that says some more stuff. Not only does it say that you have the right to choose your own doctor, it says that they can't send you to a doctor that is employed by or under contract with the agency. But it says something else. It says they're required to tell you you have a right to choose your own doctor. So they're not telling you you have a right to choose your own doctor, they're telling you you have to go to their doctor. It's opposite of every part of the law. But what if somebody sent you or said you have to go to my doctor and you had a law that said, no, I don't? The code of federal regulations says I can pick my own and you have to get out of my way. Would that change things? Because what if you had a fighting chance to pick a doctor that knew how to get a claim accepted? You think they want to send you to they don't want to send you here? I promise you they don't want to send you here. I have examples and I know people's names that don't want to send you here. What happens when you come here? 10 out of 10? 19 out of 19? We're not getting denied claims here. They want you to go to the urgent care. Now I'm not saying everyone's malicious, but there's enough of them that I can say everyone's malicious. I'm sorry. Some of them are good. I know some nice supervisors. I do. I can't remember any of their names. There's not enough of them. And they know, because I've dedicated these things to management. And they didn't like it. The woodshed is a hard place. So you can pick your own doctor. The third thing on here says file a written notice. That means get a CA1 or a CA2. Now here's the beauty of this thing. You're sitting down, you're reporting, you're getting a CA16, you're contemplating what doctor you want to choose, and you're filling out the form. And you didn't stand up. This all happens at the same time. This is so easy. Okay? So the difference in a CA1 and two is that a CA1 is what you file for an injury that happens in a single shift. And your supervisors have these forms. And if they don't, where do you think you can go to find them? FederalInjuryCenters.com. Come and get all the forms you want. There's no excuse. A CA2 form is a form for anybody that had an injury that happened over two or more shifts.

unknown

Okay?

SPEAKER_00

Carpal tunnel syndrome is the most common over two or more shifts condition I've ever heard. It just happens over a period of time. Two or more shifts, weeks, months, or years. Okay? Now the fourth thing on here says obtain a written notice. Oh man, something else? No. It's part of the CA1 and it's part of the CA2. Okay? So it's part of the deal. You just, while you're there, get that. But here's the thing. So lots of supervisors will tell you they don't have to give you copies of all this stuff that they filled out and you filled out. You're shaking your head, right? I don't have to give that to you. What if I told you that the law says they have to give you a copy of everything? And I don't care if you filled it out on a computer. Print it out. The law allows for you to have everything. It specifically says to give you a copy of the receipt of notice and a copy of the front and back of the CA1 or CA2. That's everything. Why is that important? I'm going to get to that. So the fifth thing on here is how to get paid. I love this question. Who likes to get paid?

SPEAKER_03

If you buy it.

SPEAKER_00

Okay. Alright.

SPEAKER_03

I had a quick question. There's a question from Veronica. She wants to know why doesn't a union steward tell you about all this?

SPEAKER_00

So don't be mad at your union stewards. They're not trained either, but we're working on it. It's not an insult, it's a fact. This is hard. So I know a lot of stewards, and I know that the things that you have to know are more than just OWCP.

unknown

Right.

SPEAKER_00

Okay? I have to know this one thing. And I have to learn any of that other stuff. I learned some other stuff along the way, but this is the one thing. They have a little more than one thing. So take it easy on the stewards. They're working on getting trained and they definitely care about it. I was in a room. I was in a room of how many people today?

SPEAKER_03

30.

SPEAKER_00

30 people that passionately cared about this. Passionately. Okay, and that's who I'm talking to. Because that's who helps everyone else. But getting paid. So here's what this thing says: it says you have to elect COP, which is continuation of pay, or sick and annual leave. So continuation of pay is something that you're only eligible for on a CA1 claim. Okay? And as long as you report your injury in 30 days, you can have it. And it's good for 45 days of pay. If your claim's not accepted, guess what happens? They're coming to get it. They're gonna pay, you have to pay it back. So they start by taking your second annual leave, and then the rest they call an overpayment. And how do you get an overpayment from somebody? Exactly, you collect it. That's exactly right. So if your claim is denied, and how many people have accepted claims? One out of nineteen. So if you're in the other 18, they're gonna want your money back. Come on in.

SPEAKER_04

Hello.

SPEAKER_00

That's the risk of taking COP. And although it says it right there on the CA1 form that if it's denied, you have to pay it back, nobody reads it. They know, oh, 45 days, I'll take it. Okay? But understand that's the risk. Now, if I had to think about it, now we have offices all over the country that I've trained. Not federal injury centers offices, but I've trained maybe 25 plus offices. And I don't know a single person who's ever had to pay that COP back. What does that tell you? Okay. And last year 100,000 people had accepted claims. But that was one out of 19. That was terrible. That was a horrible number. So it's possible to get these accepted. But scientifically, if you know how to write reports, it's improbable that they'll be denied. They will be accepted, and you don't have to pay it back. But if you're worried about it, you can take sick and annual leave. Now it's not infinite either. It runs out, but at least you don't have to pay it back if you get denied. But who'd rather take vacation? I know. I'd rather take vacation right now.

SPEAKER_03

Real quick, we have a question from an RCA, Pamela. She says, as an RCA, are you eligible for COP if you're injured?

SPEAKER_00

Yes. You're a federal employee. Federal employees are all eligible for these benefits. So I'm gonna ask you a question. What happens if you miss your 30-day filing deadline? That's the smartest answer I heard all day long. Let me tell you what. That was a really brilliant answer. She said you don't get your COP, and that's the only right answer. But here's what we hear all the time. You gotta report your injury within 30 days in order to even have be able to file it. Did you know you have to file within 30 days? It's not. It's three years. But supervisors all the time are saying you had 30 days to file. What are you doing? Don't bring this to me.

SPEAKER_06

Well they tell you that it'll be denied if you wait? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. So in this packet, I've got two places in the law that say you have three years to report your injury. They give you some time. Okay? So what happens is, and the reason one out of 19 people has an accepted claim, and so many people don't even attempt it, is they thought they couldn't. They thought the time ran out. The time didn't run out. 30 days is not the deal. Okay? You report within 30 days, you can have COP. You report outside of 30 days, you can still have an accepted claim. And the benefits for OWCP are great. But you gotta have access to them by getting an accepted claim. There's some of the best benefits I've ever heard of. But you gotta have an accepted claim. Earlier I said we want to get a copy of the entire packet and don't leave without it. Right? So the second page of the CA1 form is the reason for that. Okay? There is not a second reason that I'm aware of that matters. On this page, and it's different than the CA2, on this page, a supervisor can completely hose your case. There are four places they can write something that can destroy your case unless you have a copy of the form. If you have a copy of the form, a doctor like ours makes your supervisor famous. Because their name goes in our narrative reports. Because they shouldn't have said that. So let me give you some examples. Many people that have heard me, we do this every week online. So thousands of you have heard this story, so bear with me. But box 28 says that's not the form. Box 28 says, was the employee injured in performance of duty? So there are five basic elements to an accepted claim, or to a legitimate claim in general, okay? And one of those is that your injury happened in performance of duty. So one of the things that I've seen happen over and over is someone got hurt in the parking lot before they clocked in. Things happen, okay? Parking lots aren't perfect and they have holes and you step in them sometimes. I've seen it happen. And supervisors will say, nope, not in performance of duty. At a lady that slipped at the elevator after she clocked out, not in performance of duty. At a guy who slept in the bathroom, not in performance of duty. Sounds reasonable, right? Except for all of those, by definition, are in performance of duty. But your supervisors aren't always educated. In fact, you now know more than they do. And I'm not even down. So you gotta be able to see that. What if you could get a copy of this and see that they wrote not in performance of duty? You could question it, right? You could probably point them to a law because there's one in here. What if you could just say, Are you really sure you want to say that? If you knowingly, willfully put something that's not true on this form, you could be penalized. Are you sure? Because that's not true. But you gotta have a copy of the form if you want to fight that. Number 29 says, was the injury caused by the employees' willful misconduct, intoxication, or intent to injure themselves or another? So the funny thing about intoxication, the great thing is I've actually never seen a single person in thousands of cases that was injured because of intoxication. Which actually shocks me. I would think just on the percentage of population there'd be one. But I haven't seen it. But today I was reading that intoxication is not enough. They have to prove the injury was because you were intoxicated. And also, who's the medical licensed supervisor that's taking your drug test? That doesn't exist. Okay, so you've got to be able to prove it. But intoxication is not enough. But willful misconduct. So there was this postal employee in Maryland, and she lifted a box over her head and fell down and got hurt. And the supervisor said, yes, willful misconduct. And on his reasoning, he did us a favor and wrote why he said that. Worst thing he could have done for himself. He said, because she was noticeably unstable when she picked that box up and fell down. And so it was willful misconduct because she should have known better. The doctor, in his narrative report, wrote a paragraph that was titled Willful Misconduct. And said the supervisor was willfully, it was willful misconduct on the part of the supervisor for noticing somebody unstable and allowing them to get hurt. And shame on you, and used his name. And that claim got accepted. But if we didn't have the form, how are we gonna how are we gonna fight that? How's that going in the narrative report if I don't see it? Okay? So getting a copy of it protects you. And if you're sitting there, you can say, What are you talking about, willful misconduct? I'm just doing my job. What happens if I don't pick my box up? I'm gonna be in trouble for that. I gotta do my job. Or if I don't, so, anyways, it was a bad deal, but you can fix it if you can see it. Does your 35, does your knowledge of the facts about the injury agree with statements of the employee and her witness? Who was telling me about stepping in a hole? Okay. So there's this lady in North Carolina, and she was delivering the mail in the evening. I guess the sun was going down, and there's those little ditches that go right before you get into the yard. And she stepped off into that ditch, and there was a hole, and she nailed like right in the hole. And she twisted her knee and ankle. So she immediately called her supervisor, which is the right duck, the right thing to do. Immediately report, right? And she said, I stepped in a hole and twisted my ankle and knee, whatever. And he said, Okay, come on back. Let's fill out a CA1. And shockingly, this guy gave her a CA1 like right away. Okay, so that's two things. I'm completely so surprised it happened. But here's what happened. She wrote on there that I stepped in a ditch and twisted my knee. And he said, My knowledge of the facts of the injury don't agree with the statement of the employee. She said that she told me on the phone she stepped in a hole, but on this form she said she stepped in a ditch. So, the doctor's narrative report said, the hole was in a ditch, you idiot. And that was the title of the paragraph. They didn't need to say very much more in there, except for the supervisor's name who wrote that, and the hole was in the ditch. What are we even talking about? That case got accepted. What if we didn't have a copy of that form? But we train our doctors when you answer the phone, or when somebody answers the phone, tell them get a copy of the CA1 and bring it to me. I want to see that form because I need to read these questions. And if it's just, oh no, everything's fine, great. Everything's fine. But if it's not fine, we can fix it. Every one of those cases got accepted. But they only got accepted because we could see it. And because the supervisor is not allowed to hose your case today. And that's how we fix it. So is getting a copy of this whole thing good? Yeah, it's good. And last thing on here, why do you want a copy? Because box 36 says, if the employing agency controverts continuation of pay, state the reason. Would you like to know before you leave your supervisor's office if they're gonna prevent you from getting paid? Absolutely. But you leave there with a copy of this, they can't change it later. It's done. And if they're gonna controvert your pay, let's talk about it now. Let's deal with it now. And I recommend take a union steward with you. Okay? Get a steward, go in the room, and have somebody else in the room with you. Don't do this by yourself because that witness is critical. It's very important. Those of you that have problems with your stewards may not work for that. It may not work for you. But everyone else, it does. And so I recommend it. In almost every case, nine out of ten cases, the strength is in the union. The strength is in their ability to push back on your behalf. And we recommend it strongly. What questions do you have so far? And what questions are coming in?

SPEAKER_03

Mary Pratter.

SPEAKER_00

Hey Mary.

SPEAKER_03

She said, listening to you, I have to say this: a supervisor at our post office took a clerk down to the post police station. The stupid supervisor asked a police station to give the clerk a sobriety test for alcohol consumption. Tell me how crazy that and can they do that?

SPEAKER_00

So here's how they can do it if you let them do it. But I don't recognize the authority of a supervisor to take me any place. Or to make me go any place. So I'm probably not taking that trip at all, ever. And uh just no, I just wouldn't do it. And if I'm asked to do that, I'm gonna talk to my union president and say, hey, do I have a grievance to file? What in the world are they doing? Is this even is that even legal? Is that an EEO? Let's penalize these supervisors for doing this stuff.

SPEAKER_06

I hope they do.

SPEAKER_00

I hope they do too. So if everybody just knew the stuff I just said, the number would go from one out of 19 to something higher. Just knowing that stuff. Okay? Being able to get to a doctor and not being forced to go to a doctor that's gonna get a claim denied. That would help. Just being able to make the choice to go where you want to go, to know what to do when you report, to know what to look for in your forms, wouldn't that help? But there's laws. And I'm gonna go over these laws because they're my favorite. And then I'm gonna tell you how to protect yourself using the laws. Bear with me here. There's no more questions coming in?

SPEAKER_03

No, for anything like that. Those of you that are watching, we go over these rules and these laws and these statutes. Make sure that you guys are using them. I know I told you guys earlier this week about a case back in the West Coast where she was being harassed, followed, and everything by her supervisor, and came to find out she sent me a message and said that the supervisor did get arrested and he is going to jail and being terminated from any federal company. So the laws do work. She contacted OSHA, she contacted law enforcement, and she also I forgot whatever something something else she did that Chris told her, but she said she was thankful that she learned the rules and the laws that Chris has been telling everybody. So you guys have to push back on the supervisors. So pay attention to the rules and take notes.

SPEAKER_00

I should say that I'm not an advocate for having more problems with management. You got enough, right? It's not easy as it is. But how much are you gonna get? Are you willing to get pushed around? Before you're willing to do something back where you are protecting yourself. Who will advocate for you better than you? Nobody will. Nobody ever. Yes.

SPEAKER_07

Okay. If you being harassed, I didn't know that you can call OSHA.

SPEAKER_00

But it might not be a violation, but there's no harm in asking.

SPEAKER_07

Okay. But I was being harassed a while back, and I called the authorities. They came and they said it, they couldn't file or couldn't give me a case number or whatever because this was inside the Postal Service.

SPEAKER_00

So at the end of this, I've got five things that everybody can do. You may not be able to do all five every time, but you can always do one of these five things. And it's gonna help you.

SPEAKER_03

The reason law enforcement was got involved with this because he was like physically.

SPEAKER_00

He was a stalker stalking her.

SPEAKER_03

He was stalking her. She's a single mom with two kids, and there was more things going on for three months, so that's why she had like witnesses, she had recordings, everything. So take notes on all your stuff when you guys are getting harassed.

SPEAKER_00

Dude was crazy.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

But that wasn't safe for her. So I don't, and by the way, I don't think that was really an OSHA thing for her. That was more of a law enforcement thing.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, she just contacted OSHA just so it was aware.

SPEAKER_00

It could have been a safety issue. I'm gonna go through some of these laws. Please stop me if at any time you have a question, just shout them out. I wish online they could shout them out. That'd make this even more fun. So there's this document. It's called the Injury Compensation for Federal Employees. It's a CA810. You're rolling your eyes because you heard of it. You're the one that's heard of it. I'm the one that read it three times. And it's a very long document. It's like a book. I'm only going to talk about one part of it, although there's a lot of pretty cool stuff in there. But in this, it says in section 63 letter A, an employee is entitled to the initial choice of physician and can choose any licensed physician. So this is the first place outside of the CA10 that I ever found where it says an employee is entitled to initial choice of physician. Okay? This is like the training manual for everybody. And they're not getting trained on it. And I even found a PowerPoint presentation that was just dedicated to supervisors that says this. I'm wondering which supervisor it was, which one actually went through the presentation. Because it seems like nobody really knows. But this is the first place. But it goes further at the bottom, it says agency personnel may not interfere with the employee's right to choose a physician. So not only is it your right to choose, but they have to get out of the way. It's not, they have no right to interfere with it. But it even goes further. Nor may they require you to go to a physician who's employed by or under contract with the agency. They just cover all the grounds. And this is the first place I found it. Yes, ma'am? Yeah.

SPEAKER_06

How do we know if that doctor is employed by the agency? And I'm asking again because the second opinion doctor that I had to go to. I was told that he's on the list of the Department of Labor.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06

And that I had to go to him.

SPEAKER_00

So second opinion doctors, you do have to go to. This is the this is discussing your initial choice of your treating doctor.

unknown

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

You do have to go to the second opinion doctors. And if they're on the list, they're on the list. No, go ahead.

SPEAKER_06

Okay, let me ask you a question about that.

SPEAKER_00

That's correct.

SPEAKER_06

But if you go to a second-opinion doctor, he supersedes what your doctor says and write his own restrictions.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06

And they use that.

SPEAKER_00

They do that all the time. They do that all the time. I just say go back to your treating doctor and have him write a new one again. Because you only got one quarterback at a time. Okay. The treating doctors were on the show.

unknown

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

Alright, so here's the next law. This is about the CA 16. And again, if you want this, just give us your email address, we'll send it to you. You can use this when you're trying to get, or your co-workers are trying to get a CA 16. Okay? But it says when an employee sustains a work-related traumatic injury that requires, that means a CA1 claim. That requires medical examination or treatment or both, the employer shall, which is absolute, that word is absolute. The employer shall authorize such exam andor treatment issue in CA 16. This is the place in the code of federal regulations that says they shall give you a CA 16. Unequivocally. Now you've got to know you have to report your injury within seven days to be eligible. Okay, so don't wait. Report right away. When you report right away, they shall give you a CA 16. Why is that good? It pays your medical bills for 60 days. So I used to say it pays your bills. It does not pay your house payment or your car payment. Okay? If it did, that would be so cool. It pays your medical bills. I could probably limp around for a little while. Somebody would make my house payment for 60 days. That'd be okay. But here's what letter B of that same regulation says it says the employer shall issue the CA 16 within four hours of the claimed injury. It doesn't say even four hours of the request. Four hours of the injury. So if you report it right away, they're supposed to know I'm on the clock. Four hours. I gotta give you a CA 16. Four hours and one minute, file a grievance. We gotta start getting grievances filing this. These are too important.

SPEAKER_03

No, you guys can't be scared with this stuff. You can't.

SPEAKER_00

There's no penalty that actually holds any weight. Yes, sir. Okay, I was injured.

SPEAKER_02

And when I reported it to the supervisor, then I called the shop student. When we're giving it when giving the form you were talking about the CAC thing, she went and do that and said that if I was the need to go to the emergency room or whatever, because I'm injured, they didn't have any one to fill in for me to uh continue to uh deliver the mail.

SPEAKER_00

Is that right? Yeah. So they said you can't go get help because we don't have anybody to take your place delivering the mail. Since when is the mail more important than your health? Those letters and packages are still gonna be there when you come back.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, and so I continue to work because of that, because it seemed as if she was threatening my job, so to speak.

SPEAKER_00

So I'm getting into right now what you do about that situation. And by the way, it's not too late to file agreements on it.

SPEAKER_02

I ended up going seeking medical help, but it was I got drug around and work for two weeks, then uh then they finally gave gave gave me the paperwork, but they still are and then she even went as far as trying to say. I don't remember, but I had witnesses, winners are keeping you on the job and still letting you help. I didn't get enough problem to use the winner, but they still are well, they're now coming down here for our medical treatment and everything, they have a cable except now they come back saying that they don't want to don't want to pay the cards of the facility I was coming to.

SPEAKER_00

This one? Yeah, I'll tell you why in a minute.

SPEAKER_04

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

So you work for the post office? Right. Yeah, okay. I know who told you that too.

SPEAKER_04

Yep.

SPEAKER_00

Okay. We know our initials are BM. We know who this is.

SPEAKER_07

Yeah. Now I know you uh I've said this before, but I know you say it's a file greases.

SPEAKER_00

Yes.

SPEAKER_07

But union president is telling I was shop, so it's not to file grievous.

SPEAKER_00

So you don't actually need anybody to file a grievance on your behalf. You can do it yourself. I learned that from rural carriers. I think you two should get together. Yeah. That's exactly right.

SPEAKER_03

But I do not okay.

SPEAKER_00

Okay. But I have some other things in here to go along with filing grievances. I'm gonna get to at the end.

SPEAKER_03

I have something to say to you about that. One of the state presidents that we know very well, we've asked him about this because we have a lot of other people in other states that tell us that their union or their union president doesn't help. What you want to do is go to the next level. Go talk to somebody in national, let them know or a regional person. Yeah, and send them an email stating what's happening so there's a paper trail on everything. He said make sure everything is paper trail.

SPEAKER_00

And you have some MBAs, the NALC has MBAs who are who are really like class acts. When it comes to OWCP, that's their job. And they're interested in helping you. But so I would definitely get a hold of whoever that is for you.

SPEAKER_03

When it's a top president, and they just seem to not, if you feel like it's not the right answer, contact National. Always do that. And you can file an EEOC.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, you can. So she's saying you can file an EEOC, and that's correct. I'm gonna talk about that at the end. Now you just took away number two out of about five points. But I'm gonna I'm gonna help you out with what happened with you, sir. So check this out. So 20 CFR 10.16. CFR is a code of federal regulations. It says a number of statutory provisions make it a crime, a crime to file a false or fraudulent claim or statement with the government in connection with a claim under FICA, which is workers' comp, okay? But here's the second part. It's also a crime to wrongfully impede a claim. Now, let's talk about this. I do this, this is what I do all the time now. How are ways they may impede your claim?

SPEAKER_04

Denying.

SPEAKER_00

Denying you paperwork. What happened to you?

unknown

I was denied.

SPEAKER_00

Did you feel threatened also?

SPEAKER_04

Yes.

SPEAKER_00

Would threatening your job wrongfully impede your claim?

SPEAKER_04

Yes.

SPEAKER_00

Yes. Would threatening to penalize you wrongfully impede your claim? And those things are considered potentially a crime according to the Code of Federal Regulations. Wouldn't you like to have had that?

SPEAKER_07

Yes.

SPEAKER_00

Wouldn't you like to have said, well, are you doing a crime? What's happening here? But it's worse. Now, again, who's with the Postal Service in this room?

unknown

Pretty much everyone.

SPEAKER_00

Almost everyone. Okay.

SPEAKER_03

Hold on. There's one person, a few people want an answer on this. So it says, a USPS HR in San Antonio charged, changed the claimant's portion on my CA7, forged my signature, and didn't mind signing their name right on the line that says it's a five-year federal time per occurrence. I have a folder full. They don't even deny doing it, left me a voicemail admitting it and emailed each other back and forth laughing about it. So I don't even think that they're too worried about the laws and or penalties. They are so well insulated by the fact that they're ha they have staff of attorneys just waiting for us to try while they are less than handful of OWCP certified attorneys to help us and who can afford when they are out here changing times, so you get no pay.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, okay. So you probably don't need an attorney for this, but don't steal the rest of my thunder. I'm gonna get to this at the end on what you do about it. But right now, let's talk about what laws they broke. At the post office, they did us all a favor. They took the code of federal regulations and they put them into post office regulations and they posted them on the USPS website for everybody to see, including management. And they are listed under 542.3 penalties, folks. So, what they did is they said, here's what the code of federal regulations says, and this is word for word. They just put on the website there at USPS. So, this false statement, so this person who said that they changed things and wrote lies on the form. Any employee supervisor or representative who knowingly makes a false statement with respect to a claim under FICA may be subject to a fine of not more than$10,000 or five years in prison or both. Does that sound like they take that seriously? Seriously? You want to change the form for five years? I got plans the next five years. I'm not changing the form.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, but they're saying that no one is doing it.

SPEAKER_00

We're gonna talk about what someone will do about it because you will do something about it yourself. Nobody's a better advocate for you than you. And I've got five things you can do. And in this case, you may do all five. 542.33 is penalty for refusal to process a claim. Now this is gonna apply to you. It says any employee or supervisor responsible for making reports in connection with an injury. So what's a report? CA1 form, CA2 form, those are reports. Or refuses to do so, they refuse to write the report, refuse to fill out the form. Or any supervisor who induces, compels, or directs you to forego filing a claim. Now, how might they induce you to forgo filing a claim? Threaten your job is one way that happens most often. That person can be fined only$500, but imprisoned up to a year just for not processing my CA1 form. Does sound like a good deal? If it does, do it. Because here's what's happening. We're teaching everyone what to do when supervisors do that. So how do you push back? Because I was talking to our really good NALC friend in Florida, and he's a powerhouse, and if you see him coming into a room, you're gonna lose whatever he walked in to win. And that's just how it goes. And so I sit and I had lunch with him, and uh I said, hey, this is what's happening. What do we do about it? Why don't why haven't I seen one person go to jail over this? Why haven't I seen one person get fined over this stuff? It happens every day. It happens thousands of times a day. It would shock me if it's not thousands of times a day. And he started talking, and when he started talking, I'm just looking for it, okay? When he started talking, I realized I had myself a new five-point list to train everybody on. He didn't know I was making a five-point list, he was just talking off the hip. But these are things that he does. So these are the five ways to protect yourself against management. You can write it down, but I'll email it to you as well. So, number one, file a grievance. Okay, that's I think to me the most obvious because I hear it all the time. So file a grievance. But number two, as just part of due process, contact EAP, contact employee assistants. He said, let them maybe mediate for you. Alright, maybe they can intervene. So just do it, even if it goes no Do it so that you can document you did it. Okay, maybe go a couple of times, two or three times. But go to EAP. And he says, with the help of the union, now you gotta consider the source. This man would like nothing more than to do the rest of the things that are on this list himself. Okay? File an EEO. And it doesn't always apply. But when it does, do it. Now, how do you know if it applies or not? You're not an EEO expert. Is anybody here an EEO expert? I'm not, and I studied this stuff. So what do you do? Call and ask. Do I have a claim? Here's my story. Do I have a claim? Somebody will evaluate it, talk to you, and tell you. And if you do, make it happen. If you don't, they'll tell you. But you know what? You definitely don't have an EEO claim if you don't call. It's a guaranteed no if you don't make an attempt to get a yes. So that was number three. Number four, and I love this one the most. This is my favorite. With the help of the union, report the incident to OSHA. Now you can report the incident to OSHA yourself. 1-800-321-OSHA. Okay, that is the easiest number I've ever heard of to remember. 1-800-321-OSHA. Or you can go to OSHA.gov and there's an elect- there's a button. Just click it. You want to file. But when you call, a lot of people are scared to report things to OSHA. It's an intimidating thing. I can see why it would be. What if I'm wrong? What if I call and report a violation and I'm wrong? Maybe that makes me look bad. So here's what we do: we just call and ask. Is this a violation? Here's my story. Is this a violation? Because if it is, somebody's gonna show up and fix it. So in Florida, we had a supervisor, I wish I knew the supervisor's name. We had a supervisor who, a lady called him who was a carrier, and said, My LLB is on fire, what do I do? Go back in there and get the things, get the packages out. Go back into the burning vehicle and get the packages out. Smoke inhalation, the possibility of being burned, and while throwing these packages out, some of those. She wouldn't did it.

SPEAKER_03

She went and did it. She goes, she was scared.

SPEAKER_00

In the heat of the moment, literally the heat of the moment, she didn't know. But some of that stuff was heavy. 50-pound dog food bags, right? Throughout her shoulder and her neck. So I talked to her on the phone, and I said, you know what? You are the perfect person to call USHA and ask. Is it a violation for me to be told to run back into a burning vehicle? I think we should check it out. Guess what they're gonna do? They're gonna go and look at that, they're gonna look at the vehicle, then they're gonna look at all the other vehicles and find out are any of them gonna burn up also? And what the heck is going on over there? Nobody wants the kind of investigation that comes next. Because they don't just look at the one thing, they look at all the things. How many times do you think that has to happen?

SPEAKER_03

And if the vehicle is completely burnt. If you went like that, it would just that's how bad it was burnt.

SPEAKER_00

That's a scary deal.

SPEAKER_03

I'm surprised anybody that's in the postal stuff, if you haven't seen it on your app, like your postal apps, it was on there.

SPEAKER_00

So I want to tell everybody this too. Just take my word for it. It's in the packet, so you'll get it if you want it. But OSHA has a thing on their website, it has 10 things that are employees' rights as it concerns OSHA. Thing number six is you have a right to report a work injury. Why did they put that there? If they don't let you report it, it must be a violation. So I'd want to ask, my supervisor won't let me fill out a CA1 form. Is this a violation? My supervisor's not adhering to my work restrictions. Is that a violation? I don't think I'm safe being able to go to work and I can't lift 50 or 70 pounds, and they're making me do it. Is that a violation?

SPEAKER_04

Most definitely.

SPEAKER_00

They're overruling my medical doctor's orders. Is that a violation?

unknown

Most definitely.

SPEAKER_00

I wonder if it is, and I wonder who's going to be the first ones to make that call. I think you probably had a good legit reason to make that call. I'm hurt and I have to keep doing my job injured and they know I'm hurt. Is that a violation? I wonder. Because the more of those calls they get, the more that the word will go around. They'll start training supervisors not to have OSHA come out to the work site. And that's what we're looking for. I don't want to get anyone in trouble. But I don't want you to get hurt.

SPEAKER_06

That's not even a question, that's a fact.

SPEAKER_00

It is a fact. And so thanks to Al for giving me this information, but here's the last one. Now, the OSHA one was my favorite. This one was his favorite. He said, with the help of the union, file a complaint with the labor board. So the NRLB. And he gave me a place to go where I can look at the outcome of labor board decisions. And it was mind-blowing to me. I call it the rabbit hole. I got into it and I couldn't get out. I just kept reading and reading. It's amazing the decisions they make. And once they make a decision, then that is the standard for future decisions. And so the more of these that go to the board and win, the more of them in the future will be won because this one won. You might lose some along the way. But if you win some along the way, that's fewer of them that you even have to fight. So that's five things you can do. You may not do them all, but you can do some of them. So this packet, and anybody that wants it, yes, eventually I'll get around to emailing you all. There are only thousands of you.

SPEAKER_03

No, he's not.

SPEAKER_00

She will.

SPEAKER_03

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00

Correction. She will. But it actually, the packet tells you how to contact OSHA, how to contact EEO, how to contact the labor board, how to get a hold of EAP, and filing agreements you can do yourself. And so it's not good enough for me that I tell you that you should do it. I'm also telling you how to do it.

SPEAKER_04

What's the labor board?

SPEAKER_00

So it's the National Labor Relations Board, NLRB. And so anytime there's a conflict between the agency or management and a union, somebody's got to mediate that. Somebody's got to make a decision. And I didn't know the answer to that question either, to be honest with you. But that's the answer to the question. And if I'm wrong, I'll have another lunch with Alan, he'll correct me. What questions do we have now? Go ahead. No, this is good.

SPEAKER_07

Okay. We can go to the labor board on the agency. We keep having issues with the union when you go to the labor board on the union.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, so I told everybody in the room this before we started, and I'll say it again. I am 100% an advocate of union. I love them. I love them all. But yeah, it goes the other way too. You can definitely file on the union as well. I just pray that you never have to. Maybe you do. But like I say, everybody's got to advocate for themselves, and you gotta do what's best for you. Nobody else is looking out for you as much as you're looking out for you. And so yes, you can. It definitely goes the other way too. What questions are you getting over here?

SPEAKER_03

Emails. Hundreds of emails.

SPEAKER_00

That's it? Any other questions?

SPEAKER_06

Time. You can say there is the three years, is the max.

SPEAKER_00

So you have three years from your date of injury to report an injury. Report. That means to tell someone in charge that you got hurt. Don't do that verbally because they're just gonna say it didn't happen. Do it in writing. You can send an email, or you can fill out a CA1 or a CA2 form. Now that's the way to go. It's the only way that really makes sense. Even if you have no intention of pursuing it medically, that's what you do. The right process is to fill that form out. And what I didn't say before is on a CA2 claim, a CA2 happens over two or more shifts. Let's say that you've been dealing with pain in your knee for two years. Okay, or in your back for a year. But today you wake up and you say, I think this is work related. You now have three years from today to report your injury. Not from when it started. But today you realize it's work-related. You're not a doctor. You didn't realize that because you walk 10 miles a day, that might have some wear and tear on your knee over a 10 or 20 year period. Whatever, it's not your job to know that. Your job to deliver the mail or whatever. So when you realize that it's work-related, you then have three years to report. It's not 30 days, it is not 14, which I heard today, it's not a week, it's three years. So anybody that's out there and hasn't reported an injury but has one, it's probably not too late.

SPEAKER_05

I was told it was 24 hours.

SPEAKER_00

24 hours? I can't even decide what I'm gonna eat tomorrow. Okay, I don't know what time I'm gonna wake up. I that's what they say. I don't make decisions. 24 hours.

SPEAKER_05

Yes, and told me that because I did not report it within 24 hours, I was gonna be written up.

SPEAKER_00

Who said that you should be hurting by 24 hours?

unknown

Post office.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Which post office? Oh in what city? And maybe the injury comp department?

SPEAKER_04

Yes. No supervisors say a lot.

SPEAKER_00

There's a lot of that going on. So anybody that is in Birmingham and works at a post office in Birmingham and is told that you have 24 hours to report your injury because you should start feeling pain in 24 hours, please report to Dr. Harper's office and show us your medical license. Pretty please. You'd love to see their medical license, wouldn't you?

SPEAKER_06

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00

They don't have one.

SPEAKER_06

I heard that if your case is closed, you won't be able to see and get any therapy.

SPEAKER_00

You mean you can't get a case open that was closed? I'm shocked to hear this lie.

SPEAKER_07

What?

SPEAKER_00

Closed cases can be reopened.

SPEAKER_07

What? What?

SPEAKER_00

Yes, how about that? From how long Was it ever open?

unknown

Yes.

SPEAKER_00

It can be reopened.

SPEAKER_07

But even though it was 2005.

SPEAKER_00

You ever heard of a CA2A? It's a notice of recurrence. Maybe it's a recurrence, or maybe. It's a new injury.

SPEAKER_06

Well, it's a consequential injury.

SPEAKER_00

Maybe it is. Maybe it's consequential. It could be. But who who's to say that it's not? Like a CA2 a recurrence. Take the knee. Now, Dr. Harper could speak to this more than I can, but I've got my share of knee problems, so I'm going to speak to it my way. There are four ligaments, some cartilage, some bones, some tendons in the knee and skin. Okay? And I've got two ACLs that have been reconstructed. If today I blew my knee out, I wouldn't know if it was the ACL or the PCL. They cross each. How would I know which is which? And so how do I know it's a recurrence? What if it's not? And what if my ACL healed and I stepped down out of my LLV and tore it again? That's not a recurrence, that's a new injury. So there are lots of ways to get these things accepted, including recurrence. You should never give up on your own health. You have lifetime medical benefits if you have an accepted claim.

SPEAKER_07

And one other thing, I failed when we was checking our trucks in the morning after we clocked in, and I fell on my knee in my hands. So when I went to the doctor that I chose, and orthopedic doctor, they only accepted the claim for my hand, but not for my knee, because he said it was a minor injury.

SPEAKER_00

Who said that?

SPEAKER_07

The doctor.

SPEAKER_00

Did he say it's not injured or it's minor injury?

SPEAKER_07

He said minor injury.

SPEAKER_00

A minor injury can be accepted too.

SPEAKER_07

But they denied it for my knee.

SPEAKER_00

Because the doctor wrote a cowardly report.

SPEAKER_07

And see, I've already I have a closed claim on my knee.

SPEAKER_00

But you reported it on time.

SPEAKER_07

Yeah, I did get that. Go again because I had witnesses.

SPEAKER_00

Go again. If you report on time, so there's only two ways you can't have a claim worked on, accepted, or reopened, or whatever. One, it wasn't timely filed. What's timely mean? Three years. And two, it's not a legitimate injury. Yours is legit. If it's a legitimate, timely filed injury, it should be accepted. And you should get help. And don't let anybody tell you otherwise.

unknown

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

What other questions? Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

Is there a time frame on the CA2?

SPEAKER_00

No, so a CA2 is three years from the date you knew it was work related.

SPEAKER_05

So if you've already filled out your paperwork, turned in.

SPEAKER_00

You did it already. You met your timeline.

SPEAKER_05

Okay, but the supervisor refused to fill out their portion.

SPEAKER_00

So remember the laws. They're preventing you from filing a claim. I wonder if you called OSHA what they think about that.

SPEAKER_05

But would they make me redo all of my paperwork to get everything updated? I don't have to redo it.

SPEAKER_00

You did it already. Now the supervisor just needs to be made to do their part. And the supervisor has 10 days to turn that into DOL, whether they like it or not. So if they don't turn it into DOL, DOL can't ever even give you a case number to try to get open. So if your supervisor does that, they're violating so many things. You've got to file grievances and you've got to contact OSHA. Because they're preventing you from getting help. If you don't get help, you work hurt. That's not safe. And the S in OSHA is safety. So don't let that happen. And what does OSHA say? Number six on their 10-point list is you have a right to report your injuries. And you got it, the only way they get penalized is if we start pushing back. And so we have five things here you can do to push back. And I can't wait to see what happens. Because I'm going to teach this and teach it, and every week after week, I'm never going to stop saying this. Until somebody either makes shuts down my internet connection or they stop because they're tired of the penalties. And yet that's going to take you. You're going to have to just you're going to have to fight back. But you fight back with this stuff. Not actual fighting. Let someone else do it for you. Is this a violation?

SPEAKER_03

This is a question from Mary. It says, How do you go about it? If the doctor put it in writing saying my carpal tunnel is work-related. I didn't file it, but management knows about it, but never wrote it up. I still haven't I still have to have surgery on the left hand, so can I still file it?

SPEAKER_00

So you're only required to report your injury within three years. You're not required to fill out a CA1 or two within three years. You're required to report it. A verbal report counts if you can prove it. So the answer is yes. You can go back, go fill out your forms. You reported it already. You did it. So definitely fill your forms out. And management's required to tell you that you can do all this stuff and you're supposed to fill out forms and they're not doing it.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, and Julie, you can call OSHA and be anonymous about it. You you don't have to tell them any information unless you're gonna they're gonna start a whole investigation. So you could be anonymous.

SPEAKER_00

There was another question back here. Yes, ma'am.

SPEAKER_06

I have a question.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06

If you had two situations, you have occupational disease and you also have injury, you found it at the same time because the doctor found out that you know you had injury it arbitrary. Both of you have exactly he found out that you have copper tunnel. So he said both for the both. It was evidence that it was there. It was all related. But the Carmel said no, it's gonna accept the injury. So that went on for about five years. I gotta pay for the injury. Then again, we go to the second opinion doctor. Because things keep showing up. They don't know exactly what's going on, but they do know the copper tunnel. They offered me a job because the second opinion doctor said there was nothing wrong with the law. You know, I had no evidence that it had. So they denied the injury and accepted the copper tunnel after they denied the first injury. So because I did accept the job that they gave, they wanted me to go back to that I could not do, and they knew I couldn't do it, I can't pick up these things. Anyway, because I turned the job down because it wasn't suitable, they decided they'd terminate my compensation. That's the free thing. Except for the injury, but they allowed me to go for medical.

SPEAKER_00

You think that you had a fair equal employment opportunity there?

SPEAKER_06

No.

SPEAKER_00

So I wonder what they'd say about that, what EEO would say. I have it'd be interesting to ask, wouldn't it?

SPEAKER_06

Yeah, I have to.

SPEAKER_00

And let me address the first thing you said though. Sorry, I was way out of the camera. Five years ago, you got a denial letter about carpal tunnel syndrome. I would have been five years ago curious to see why they denied it. Why do you so here's what happens with denial letters. Somewhere in there is a paragraph that starts with the word specifically. Specifically, your claim is denied because. And whatever that's whatever comes next after the word because, your doctor can fix. And it could have been accepted. There's no reason you can't have a CA1 and a CA2 claim filed at the exact same time and have them both accepted if they're both legit and they're both timely filed. It does not matter that they're filed at the same time. One does not overrule the other. So that wouldn't be a reason not to accept a claim. The reason your carpal tunnel wasn't accepted is probably there wasn't enough medical evidence to show that you had carpal tunnel caused by the job. See, you can show you have carpal tunnel, but if you don't also show it's because of the job, they'll deny it. And they're so picky, you have to connect all the dots. I know a guy who was in a car wreck driving his LLB around, and his LLB rolled after a lady did an illegal U-turn. And his claim was denied. They didn't argue that he was in a car wreck. They argued the doctor couldn't prove his injuries were because of the car wreck. Those injuries that he didn't wake up with that morning. You really got to do a good job connecting the dots. By you, I mean your doctor, obviously. But because now you know you have to make sure your doctor does it. And if your claim gets denied because they say you haven't your doctor didn't prove you were injured by the job, make your doctor go again or write another report.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Fix it.

SPEAKER_06

They actually, about five years later, uh proved it.

SPEAKER_00

That's five years too late. But hey, five years later you can go back and get your benefits. But that's too late.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah, they did they did that. Yeah. They only, I'm here on cause of meltdown. They wouldn't give me the compensation.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. So they sent you a denial letter for compensation too. I'd be interested in seeing what that said. Yeah, yeah, I guess you I'd be happy to look at it. Thank you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06

And when I came to Dr. Hopper's office because I'm having trouble with his arm and I didn't understand what was going on. Dr. Hopper recommended I have MRI to see what was going on because I was having so much pain design was weekly. Yeah. Trying to pick up things and causes issues. So I'm thinking, like I said, I'm not a doctor, so I'm thinking it's all related to the injury and the carpal tunnel.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06

And so we got the MRI results. I actually have a tear in my rotators cup and degenerative, some kind of whatever, yeah, going on. And he asked me, nobody's acknowledged that or sick. I'm like, no, you first person. I didn't know that. I knew something was going on.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. So now he'll add the shoulder to the claim and you can get help for that. It's not too late.

SPEAKER_06

So the case would be because they shut down the case.

SPEAKER_00

That's that's maybe a consequential injury, maybe. Or maybe it's just part of the original injury and it just wasn't ever dealt with.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

But it's not too late. Thanks.

SPEAKER_03

All right, everyone, we're at the end of our Facebook Live live in Birmingham. We're gonna go and hang out with the federal friends that are here and get their questions answered. Don't forget, if you want the packet, give us some time because there's like hundreds of emails we have to add on here. We'll get you the packet. I'll also put it on Friday quick tips. Don't forget to watch us every week on Wednesday night OWCP chats live at 9 p.m. Eastern Standard Time. Don't forget to like and follow our page. And all the questions that came through that we didn't get to answer, Chris and I will go ahead and answer them tonight and tomorrow. We're still here with AFGE in Birmingham. And oh gosh, don't forget to follow Chris on Twitter. Does anybody have Twitter?

SPEAKER_07

I do, but I lose it.

SPEAKER_00

If you will who've got your phone out right now, who has a phone? I'm not gonna make you go do it. But everybody's got a phone. Okay, everybody's got a phone.

unknown

I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_00

Everybody has you're probably watching me on your phone right now. Everybody has a phone. So in a minute, I'm gonna turn this thing off, and you're gonna be like, no gosh, what do I do with my phone? I'm gonna tell you what you do with your phone. So you go to your app store, to Google Play Store, and you get the Twitter app. And you'll realize Twitter sucks. It's what's the point in this thing? But you know what? You get on your Facebook page if any who does Facebook? And you just get sucked into it, just oh man, I can't see it. Looking through my news feed. It just like funny cat videos. Okay, or whatever. But on Twitter, you don't do that. You don't have to see anything you don't want to see. So you go there and you follow at Fed Injury Center. The at sign? Fed injury center. Do not follow anybody else. Do not get sucked down into the Twitter black hole.

SPEAKER_04

That's right.

SPEAKER_00

Okay? But follow at Fed Injury Center. And I'm gonna tell you why. I don't post many things on there. You will never see me posting my favorite sports teams or what I like to eat. I'm not gonna tell you anything that is a waste of your time. But these laws, I post those on there. As I learn something new, you get to have it in real time if you're following me on Twitter. And so it's hard for me to get people to actually get on Twitter because Twitter's goofy. Like when I first got on, I was like, man, there's some people tweeting all the time. They call it tweeting.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, tweeting.

SPEAKER_00

That's another thing. Like, I grew up with Tweety Bird. So what do we talk about? So the whole thing to me sounded weird. But I realized that I could get a message out to you like that. And it wouldn't be buried in everybody else's nonsense. Because you can choose not to look at that. And so I see a law that's helpful to you, and boom, it's there. And I'll even put a link so you can just go find it yourself if you want it. And so it's helpful. I had a person who was in front of their supervisor threatening to fire them. And I wasn't on Twitter yet. But I got the message from his union president that this was happening, and I texted over a picture of a law. And after he got it on his phone, which if he had Twitter, it just would have been there already, he said to a supervisor, but what about this? And she said, Oh, I wasn't really gonna fire you. I was just saying that. So that's right, nobody's getting fired today. But if you had Twitter, you'd say, hey, Chris said something about that. And it is not a waste of time. It's just quick, boom. I know I saw that before somewhere. Fast way to find it.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, so follow Chris if you can. If you don't want to, don't.

SPEAKER_04

No, even if you don't want to, do.

SPEAKER_03

So you're gonna follow us on Wednesday night OWCP chats. We have Federal Injury Centers on Facebook, Twitter, we also have YouTube for those of you that are not on social media and LinkedIn. You can find Chris Helms and Jeannie Prasad.

SPEAKER_00

So 70% of adults now are on YouTube.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Like regularly use it. That's a statistic I just heard. And so we're posting these videos as fast as possible on YouTube. So you should tell your coworkers about it because people that didn't see this are not learning this. Please do.

SPEAKER_03

And don't forget to tell everyone about Wednesday night OWCP chats because we're on there every Wednesday. Sometimes you won't see me and Chris together. That's because he's in Dallas, and then I'm in Florida, and then when he's with me, then we uh we get together and do this. So we wanted to say thank you for everyone watching tonight. We had over a hundred views tonight, just here. I'm sure there was probably a couple thousand. And we wanted to thank everybody that came out here to the Birmingham office, and we will see you guys next Wednesday. Bye.