The Golf Intervention

EP 49: Choosing the Right Golf Ball + The Wildest Golf Lesson Eric Ever Taught!

• Eric Layton • Episode 49

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Episode Description:
In this episode of The Golf Intervention, we dive deep into one of the most overlooked parts of your game—the golf ball. From price and performance to the all-important “feel,” we break down how to match the right ball to your skill level—whether you’re a Level 1 beginner, a Level 2 developing player, or a Level 3 advanced golfer. You’ll leave knowing exactly what’s worth your money, what actually improves your scoring potential, and how to avoid getting swayed by marketing hype.

Then, stick around for a story you won’t forget—the wildest golf lesson I’ve ever given.  There is a huge take away which will help your performance!

What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

  • Why your golf ball matters more than you think
  • Should you play the same ball all the time?
  • Price: How to balance budget with benefits
  • Performance: How spin, distance, and control vary between balls
  • Feel: Why matching the ball’s feel to your skill level (1, 2, or 3) can improve your game
  • How technology and data can guide you to the perfect match
  • The most outrageous (and educational) lesson I’ve ever taught

Helpful Resources & Tools Mentioned in This Episode:

Tyler:

Today's episode is brought to you by the premium content subscribers on the golf intervention substack. And we would of course like to thank all of our listeners for tuning in, you make it all worth while. If you would like to support the show or sign up for our free newsletter, you can do that at thegolfintervention.substack.com or follow the link in the show notes.

Eric:

And welcome back to the Golf Intervention Podcast. My name is Eric Late, and I am the Director of Golf Instruction at the Country Club of Virginia. is Rob fas. He is a PGA Elite golf instructor at the Boris Head Resort in Charlottesville, Virginia. I'm so glad he is on with me tonight.

Rob Failes:

Oh boy. I think my, I think my title just changed.

Eric:

instructor, like the elitist golf instructor you've ever seen.

Rob Failes:

Yes,

Eric:

development. What is your title? I can never get it right. Yeah,

Rob Failes:

player development leader.

Eric:

He's the

Rob Failes:

We'll get there someday.

Eric:

leader at the Boris Head Resort at Birdwood at UVA in Charlottesville, Virginia. And I'm glad to have him on to. On today's episode, we are gonna discuss how do you choose a golf ball? What are the major considerations based on how you play and what you're looking for a golf ball. What are all the major decision points? We're gonna try to cover'em today on the episode, and we're also gonna cover the craziest golf lesson I've ever had in my life, which is super crazy and I shared it with Rob fails earlier today. I found the email from six years ago, the follow up email from the lesson, I will actually read that verbatim on the show today so you can get a sense of how crazy that lesson was. there is a lot to learn. From that story. So I'm hoping that you all today will get a little bit of insight into some performance stuff here on the Golf Intervention Podcast. So how you doing Rob fails in Charlottesville today.

Rob Failes:

We're doing great. We're doing great.

Eric:

Feels like fall. I've taken my daughter, one of my kids back to college already. She goes a little early'cause she's, on a competitive team and has to be back.

Rob Failes:

Oh, nice.

Eric:

the weather's been really nice here. It's been cool. uh, man, it feels, it feels good. And I'm ready for fall. I'm not gonna lie. August 1st, I was drinking pumpkin coffee and lighting pumpkin candles.

Rob Failes:

Oh,

Eric:

the, the, this

Rob Failes:

oh, nice. Love it.

Eric:

I just feel like I endure the Central Virginia Summers.

Rob Failes:

It really is. Yeah. Survive and advance, right?

Eric:

to get to the next day. But do like that my kids are home from college. That's the best part of the summer. But fall is the best time of year, in my opinion. So I get anxious and I drink that

Rob Failes:

no doubt. I.

Eric:

It's like a mindset thing, you know, So we had an episode, our last episode we dropped actually this morning, was with Dr. Andy Royalty. If you haven't checked out that episode, check it out. Every time we put out an

Rob Failes:

Yeah,

Eric:

I think the body and the swing and health and all that, nobody listens to it. They're like, nah, I don't need that episode. but Dr. Andy is a

Rob Failes:

I'm good.

Eric:

guy when it comes to

Rob Failes:

Yeah.

Eric:

performance, and, I enjoyed listening to, and there's a lot of nuggets in there. So go check that episode out if you have not, and share it with a friend or a golf friend of yours that may have, some pain that they're dealing with or that you notice that they're dealing with.'cause it can be helpful and encouraging to hear that there is, a light at the end of that tunnel. Maybe if you seek the proper, if you

Rob Failes:

Yes.

Eric:

So we are gonna start today with a discussion on golf balls. We got a question from John Epps, who is a to the show, a student of mine, a subscriber to the Substack, and he asked us on Substack, he says, I am a level two golfer. What are the major considerations I need to think about when choosing a golf ball to play? So I was thinking back, and this is episode 49, I think, I don't think we've really talked about the golf ball very much. Have we? Rob fails.

Rob Failes:

No, we haven't.

Eric:

I mean it,

Rob Failes:

Mm-hmm.

Eric:

that choosing a golf ball is interesting. I think it's pretty easy. Get a Titleist, how hard is that? Go buy a Titleist, get a Pro V one and play

Rob Failes:

Right.

Eric:

hard is that? Uh,

Rob Failes:

Yeah. I mean, legitimately.

Eric:

we understand that there's lots of considerations when it goes to playing golf balls because. There's everything from, some of the marketing stuff that you hear about, you know, is this ball better for slower speeds or higher speeds, or higher launch or lower launch, or more spin or less spin.

Rob Failes:

Mm-hmm.

Eric:

there's also the price consideration. There's the brand consideration. You've got direct to consumer golf balls now that are marketing themselves is, just as good

Rob Failes:

Yep.

Eric:

or whatever you have tailor made. And Callaway really pushing hard. To take,, some of that golf ball market from title issues just always dominated

Rob Failes:

Mm-hmm.

Eric:

Um, really good

Rob Failes:

Yeah.

Eric:

out there. And so I think there are some considerations when you're talking about the golf ball.'cause that's a very big part of the equipment. And so if we go, maybe we could go the old school golf intervention route on this one, Rob, and go, Hey. Here's your

Rob Failes:

Yeah.

Eric:

level one player and then level two player and

Rob Failes:

Mm-hmm.

Eric:

player, and,

Rob Failes:

Yeah.

Eric:

would be a really good way to take it on. And also kind of balancing out the other thing, which is A, does it matter? And B, is a more expensive ball, a better golf ball? And,, you all could take,, this for what it's worth, we're gonna give you

Rob Failes:

Yeah.

Eric:

opinion on all that. Hopefully you can take that information and use it to your ability to purchase a golf ball that you think will be best for you. So, level three consideration, or excuse me, level one. We'll start at level one, which is

Rob Failes:

Yeah, let's start level one.

Eric:

of a beginner golfer or some to somewhere around

Rob Failes:

Mm-hmm.

Eric:

who's a bogey golfer. Um, shooting in the nineties, high

Rob Failes:

Yeah.

Eric:

So. I think it's fair to say when you're starting off golf,

Rob Failes:

Oh, you just,

Eric:

whatever you can find or people give to you, probably not a bad idea. Um, just playing the game, just getting any equipment is good, right? You're piecing

Rob Failes:

yeah. Yeah.

Eric:

potentially to see if you really like the game as a beginner, and then, as you play more, and really the golf ball that point doesn't matter really that much, right? You're not making great contact most of the time. Consistency in the flight isn't that important. I will say big gashes on the golf ball or scuffs or dirt or mud, that does matter. So you want to keep at least a clean, fresh

Rob Failes:

Yeah.

Eric:

um, to get some good feedback on how it flies. But at the end of the day, you're just trying to

Rob Failes:

Yep.

Eric:

in the game. as you're progressing into keeping score and wanting to do better, I would say a big consideration is probably just. Finding something that kind of you like and you're consistent with, right? It is. At some point you should be playing the same ball pretty much round after round.

Rob Failes:

Yeah.

Eric:

that, Rob?

Rob Failes:

Yeah, I would. Yeah. And I think like, kinda like you said, there's disproportionately, the, the price point is, is a little bit more a thing for our level one golfers, because let's be honest, like if you are intro level one, if you are shooting a hundred. 20, 110, like you're losing quite a few golf balls in a round of golf, depending on where you're playing, right? So what's a, what's a price point of golf ball that is not gonna give you, uh, anxiety about how many golf balls you're losing, right? Ones that you're gonna be like, you know, obviously don't love losing a golf ball, but it's not to the point to where it's gonna keep you from coming out and, and playing the next day kind of thing. So, and I would a hundred percent echo, um, the consistency of that. So I would try to find the most premium golf ball that you're okay if you lose, you know, five or six in a round, right? Like what's the, what's the most expensive, most premium golf ball that you're okay losing? Um,'cause a hundred percent, like I've given some golf balls to a level one golfer. It's like just outta my bag. And, and they look at it and they're like, there's no way I'm gonna play this. Like, I, I don't, I don't want to, I don't wanna swing. And get this golf ball in the way of my golf swing.'cause I know I'm gonna lose it. Like, it's not that big a deal, I promise. But no, I mean, that's, that can be a thing. So, um, like you said, like try, just try to make it consistent. Try to find the, the, the most premium golf ball, um, that you can, that, that, uh, that you're okay losing. Um, I'm not trying to be facetious. I'm not trying to make light or trying to make a joke of that. I'm, I'm, I'm being serious. That's a, that's a big thing.

Eric:

that golf balls are, a lot of marketing around golf balls, right? So you,

Rob Failes:

Yeah.

Eric:

of our deal on the, on the show here is to help people wade through some of the marketing stuff. But I will say. At that, at that level, is the cover of the ball you're playing being some premium high end cover prob probably not. mainly because we're not making

Rob Failes:

Yeah.

Eric:

consistent contact all the time, right? So that's probably not. Now I will tell you, if you're someone who's a beginner golfer and you have very high club head speed and you spin the ball a lot, slicing it, you know, very deep

Rob Failes:

Mm-hmm.

Eric:

hitting into greens, and the ball spins a lot. can be the case, you're probably gonna wanna try to find a ball that doesn't spin a ton, right. So that would be a consideration for you. but I think it kind of goes

Rob Failes:

Yep.

Eric:

Do you, you really trying to believe all the marketing hype that surrounds different balls? And I think as you go through from level one to level two to level three to tour player, Some of the marketing doesn't. It becomes less important because you know what your golf ball's doing and

Rob Failes:

Yeah.

Eric:

out of it, right? when you know less

Rob Failes:

Right.

Eric:

golf ball's doing early on, on, in your golf career, not as big of a deal. And so that's where you can get that probably bargain,

Rob Failes:

Right?

Eric:

um, something that's still decent. You, you don't wanna be, you don't wanna be using, I hate to say Costco balls or whatever. I think those ones have gotten better. I think there's,

Rob Failes:

Yeah. Like, yeah, those are, yeah, a hundred percent. That's where I throw in like vice or like, um, what is it, Snell?

Eric:

Yeah.

Rob Failes:

Um, like those are like perfectly fine. Like I see backend level one, early level two golfers, quite a few of'em. Still, still playing those.

Eric:

And the direct to consumer stuff like Snell and Vice. They, they come at a pretty good price point, and they, are they as good a,

Rob Failes:

Yeah,

Eric:

V one? No, they're not.

Rob Failes:

no.

Eric:

And that's not marketing hype, that's just, that's proven independent testing. And then just look at the players on the tour. You could say, they get paid to play those balls. Well, no, they're gonna play the ball. They wanna play, it's so important for them to play the ball.

Rob Failes:

Correct.

Eric:

And so there's a reason, but that's, again, that's down the road as you improve early on, you're just trying to get something in the bag. Now, all the top golf ball producers will make some value golf balls, right? With little less, um, expensive cover on'em, which are, they're not premium premium, but they're pretty darn good, right? It's like Titleist

Rob Failes:

Right.

Eric:

soft or whatever. That's, it's similar

Rob Failes:

Yes.

Eric:

design, but, it's got a different cover, slightly different core, but has that same. Same deal, or a velocity. And and so if you wanted to play a Titleist, they have a better, they have one that's a better price point that you could get. It may be in multiple colors and that kind of

Rob Failes:

Mm-hmm.

Eric:

if you're into that sort of

Rob Failes:

Yeah,

Eric:

So as we go on from level, anything else you can think of in level one that the player may need to think about with their golf ball there?

Rob Failes:

no, I think we covered it.

Eric:

this is where. If you were gonna go get fit for a golf ball, now you're probably a pretty, pretty competent golfer, a pretty serious golfer, and you were gonna go get fit for a golf ball. This is where the data, that we've talked about in the past sort of falls in line with what you're doing with your equipment considerations, which is like, Hey, if I'm a, if I'm a level two golfer, some of the things I really need to do is I need to drive the ball better. Straighter and longer, and I also need to, hit more greens, right? So I gotta start controlling the ball into the green. So like, when you go get fit for a Titleless golf ball at a titleless fitting day, gonna really start you off with, approach shots into the green. Like, how do I get this ball to go from the fairway into the green, even before thinking about how it launches off the tee. I'm gonna guess now most of the serious level two players are in a premium golf ball of some sort. Right?

Rob Failes:

Yeah, for sure.

Eric:

is

Rob Failes:

Yeah.

Eric:

man. Like I'm, one of the reasons I'm glad I'm a golf pro is

Rob Failes:

Oh

Eric:

to buy

Rob Failes:

my gosh.

Eric:

right? Because they,

Rob Failes:

It's insane nowadays, isn't it?

Eric:

yeah. I must say pro our provi ones, they're, they're over 55, 50$6 a dozen or something these days. Is that

Rob Failes:

60?

Eric:

60. Ooh, good gracious. So

Rob Failes:

Yeah.

Eric:

60 bucks a dozen, you're hoping to not lose many, but you're also hoping that you are getting a really good golf ball, right? Really good golf

Rob Failes:

Yeah.

Eric:

And I think it's fair to say, one disclaimer, I'm a title of staff player. Um, but I think it's very fair to say there's a reason why Titleist says dominated the golf ball market, both on the tours and on the, you know, just as the sales to the population is because Pro V one, pro V one X. Pairing of golf balls is just extremely good. It's just extremely good. It's extremely consistent.

Rob Failes:

Yeah.

Eric:

it really well.

Rob Failes:

Checks all the boxes, right?

Eric:

It's

Rob Failes:

Yeah.

Eric:

into the greens. It's really good in the short game. It's really good off the t um, between the Pro V one and Pro V one X, everyone that plays golf can play one of those two golf balls. I mean, you could throw

Rob Failes:

Mm-hmm.

Eric:

there as well

Rob Failes:

For sure.

Eric:

the other premium ball, but, there's this notion that, which I've heard in the past, and I think this comes from the other companies, if you don't swing at least 90 miles an hour with your driver, you can't hit a Pro V one'cause you can't compress it or whatever. And people started to believe that for

Rob Failes:

Yeah. No.

Eric:

like this crazy story that maybe Callaway or somebody put out. I'm just kidding. I'm, I'm, I

Rob Failes:

Yeah. Compression, right?

Eric:

crazy notion, but no, like. much if you play golf, you can hit a Pro V one or a pro, one of those in that premium family.

Rob Failes:

For sure.

Eric:

and so they all do have a little bit different flight characteristics and spin characteristics. Now, I am not an expert on the Callaway balls and the TaylorMade balls and the Bridgestone balls. Do you know much about those? Uh,

Rob Failes:

Me either. No, no. That's a blind spot for me, for sure.

Eric:

is we just all play Titleist. I mean, it just is what it's, I mean, I.

Rob Failes:

Yes.

Eric:

to be ugly about it. I was on TaylorMade staff for many years and played the tailor made ball. Uh, but that would've been 10 years ago. And they were, they were good. TaylorMade, I think makes a very good golf ball. They have a, TP five and TP five X is what they're called, at least they used to be called, should maybe still call that, um, a similar idea to prob V one and prob V one X from a design standpoint. Uh, Callaway's got this chrome soft, know, Chrome soft tor chrome, soft XI don't know much about it. I like the stripes on them. I think the stripes are kind of cool that they do for the putting

Rob Failes:

Yeah. Yeah.

Eric:

but the testing really bears out and really the performance bears out that the title of the golf ball just does pretty much perform a little bit better than everything else. is what it's,

Rob Failes:

Yep. Yeah. And, uh, and being a ping staffer, I'll plug their, uh, their web fit app, right? So web fit.ping.com you can actually download an app. So, um, if you, if you wanna see. All right. Well, you want to get a Titleless option, but you also wanna see some of the other brands of, what are some of the other options that might be comparable? Um, I'm a huge fan of. Really, if you're a level one, level two or level three golfer, um, spec, uh, specifically our kind of early, early level two golfers going into that app and plugging in all of the information that you have, it's a ping does an amazing job of creating these algorithms of like, okay, for, for these types of, of, uh, you know, inputs, right? We're gonna likely get this type of output. Um, and it's pretty amazing, you know, as I, as I work through the app myself and I kind of plug in the data. Um, it's pretty darn good. I mean, it puts me right into a ProView one X, which is the ball that I play. Um, but it also gives me, I think there was the, uh, tour Chrome was one of'em that I could have explored, uh, from Callaway. There was the, um, I believe there was one from Taylor made, uh, as well that, and like it gives me, again, it will give you three or four options that are like, um, like S Tier, right? But then it'll also give you, you know. Uh, kind of down the line, some other go golf balls that, hey, if you don't wanna spend that same price point, you can look at some of these as well and get, um, kind of the, a little bit of the best of both worlds. So, a big fan of that app. I would agree. Definitely. Um, if someone tells you like, Hey, you wanna find a, a ball that really feels good off your putter, right? And then off of your wedges, right? What, what, what really feels good off your wedges? And then. Uh, try to build, uh, kind of from the green back to the TI would question that big time. Um, we know that, uh, really shots to green is the, is the driving force behind your score, right? So if you can get the, the number of shots from the T box to the green lower, that's going to reduce your score the fastest. Um, so I would venture to say, Hey, let's optimize the golf ball for your driver. Uh, or perhaps even optimize your golf ball for, um, your approach shots, if you wanna start with that first. Um, and then within those golf balls that perform well off the driver and off your approach shots, then we can try to figure out, okay, what, what a, what's a golf ball that feels nice to you around the greens? And then maybe the, the pitching and the chipping and the putting can maybe be the tiebreaker is kind of how I think about it. Um. But that's, uh, yeah, it's a common question, but it's one that we haven't really discussed yet on the, on the pod, so I was glad we were able to, to get to that for sure.

Eric:

Yeah, so I, that's great. I'll link I'll, is there a link to the app? Is it in the app store or is it like a

Rob Failes:

Yeah. Yeah, I'll send it to you. We'll, uh, we'll, we'll go ahead and yeah, we'll make sure that, uh, that's, that's linked on the pod, but, uh, it's a great resource, um, very similar to their wedge fitting app. I mean, it's, I honestly tell you like from a, from a club fitting standpoint, if I didn't have the ping web fit app, um, it's literally an app that you can download. Um, I think at this point. Uh, if not, it's just, it's on the web and I've actually, you can, you can add it as a, um, as a, as a, was it called a widget or an app? I'm not, I'm sure exactly what the term is, but you can, you can put it onto your phone. So I've got it in here somewhere. Um, I'll, I'll find it here, here shortly enough, but, oh, yep. Here we go. Um, ping. Is it copilot? Oh, it's, uh, it might actually be called copilot. The ping copilot app. Yes. Yep. Yep. So that's, that's what you're gonna want to get. Um, it, it's awesome. It'll, it'll do shaft fitting solve, uh, for your gapping in between, like, which clubs, uh, what, what set and makeup you're likely to need. Um, optimized driver launch conditions, uh, wedge grinds, uh, with your color code. Um. You know, it's got a ton of great resources on, on the Ping Co-pilot. So I, I recommend certainly professionals, um, who are, who are out in the trenches doing their club fitting, but then also our passionate level two and, and level one golfers for sure. Um, going in there and, and downloading it and seeing what information they can glean from it.

Eric:

Yeah. It's Ping. Ping, is a, is an engineering company. That's their culture. Then they do a really good job with their research and, um, I don't, was there ever a ping golf? I think there was a ping golf ball at one point in the eighties. Am I making this up?

Rob Failes:

There probably was. Yeah.

Eric:

hard to overcome the Titleist dominance there. The market share is just so crazy. Um, but.

Rob Failes:

Hunter and I actually will. We, we joke about how really Ping and Titleist really should just combine and become one super company, um, because they really do a lot of things similarly. Like that they, that they do well., And if you look through the pink staffers, like they're almost all playing titleless golf balls. Um, plenty of'em are playing titleless putters. And, and you get some mix, uh, mixing and matching of, of Ping and Titleless clubs if you look at our pink staffers. But, it's funny how it's like the titleless marketing is really good and obviously everything Titleless does is great, but like they do really well with,, the marketing, which. Ping doesn't do quite as well, but Ping does an amazing job with like the art, like the research and communication to the teachers. Oh, these are the projects, kinda the research projects that we're doing. Here's what we're learning. Here's how you could become a better teacher. So you you wish that they could just like come together, um,

Eric:

they're,

Rob Failes:

our side.

Eric:

companies, which is, think, um,

Rob Failes:

Yep.

Eric:

I think why, why so much business with them as PGA professionals, I would say that, you've got

Rob Failes:

For sure.

Eric:

the tailor made and the Callaway. They're, they both make good equipment, but they also,, they also revamp their whole line. Like every, I don't know, it's not even yearly. It's probably a little more

Rob Failes:

Mm-hmm.

Eric:

And, um, you know, they're, they're

Rob Failes:

Yeah.

Eric:

driven that way. They want to, they want to create those, you know, those product life cycles and move stuff in and move stuff out. And I, I just always feel like I really trust the. The title is in Ping is when they come out with something. It's every few years and it's,

Rob Failes:

Yeah.

Eric:

you know, it's gonna be a great product. And I wrote a, um, a newsletter, so this is plugging the newsletter a little bit. Um, you can sign up for our free newsletter, which we come out with probably every couple months. I'll put a newsletter out with some interesting stuff Substack and it's free. And,, Titleless just came out with a new, a new series of irons, as did Ping came out with, uh, just one iron. And, I did a review'cause I've been fitting a bunch of'em. They're both great. So check that out. in the show notes. So level two golfers. Yeah, this is probably when you're moving more into a premium golf ball. And again, like everybody has a different consideration. If I were in my situation as a golfer and I had to buy golf balls, I would have to strongly consider, I I, is there a budget golf ball? That's a little, that's close enough. And I think there probably are, out there. But if you're looking for

Rob Failes:

Yep.

Eric:

premium, it's gonna be Titleist. Um, and maybe some of that stuff from Callaway Taylor made and, and probably Rickson and Bridgestone. Those are probably your, your big ones. I saw PXG came out with a ball. I just feel like that's such an interesting, you know, hitting the premium golf ball. Murray,

Rob Failes:

Yeah,

Eric:

Anyway, you bless their heart. You know, give it, giving it the old try and see how it goes. bless

Rob Failes:

bless.

Eric:

Bless their heart. It's a tough, it's a tough, it's a tough,

Rob Failes:

Uh, shots fired this tonight.

Eric:

It's, anyway, anyway, so now we go on to that really, really good golfer and I, I don't know, I think this is where., Like for me, I'm a level three golfer. Rob's level I, I play Pro V one X mainly because of how I launch it off my driver. Um, it does hit a different launch window than I need for me, um, a

Rob Failes:

Yeah.

Eric:

bit higher launch off the driver. Um, and so why I play Pro V one X, right? And, and so it helps me optimize my driving, which is a huge consideration for me. The premium golf balls around the green all feel pretty good. But now the level three player is gonna be probably a higher speed player most of the time. so how that ball lands on a green with wedges is probably a huge consideration. Is it spinning too much? Can you control the spinning the ball? Some people don't control spin very well, they're great players, but they just hit everything with high spin and they need something that spends less. Other people need something that spends a little bit more. That would be me launching higher with more spin. And so I also believe at this time, this is where you settle on a ball and you play it, and you play it, and you play it over and over and

Rob Failes:

Mm-hmm.

Eric:

you don't, you're not gonna mix it up because golf balls perform so differently, which you always hear about at the Ryder Cup, right? Like when they're, when they're pairing up, uh, players in the alternate shot they got, they basically feel like they need to pair'em a little bit of a consideration as the golf ball they're playing, right? Because. Players do want to have a ball

Rob Failes:

Mm-hmm.

Eric:

similarly, if not the same to their partner when they're playing on a new shot. So consistency, premium, how it's launching off the driver, how it goes in on those wedges. Probably the main considerations there. What, what else are you seeing there for level three player Rub?

Rob Failes:

Yeah. Yeah. I,, I would say that,, the one question that I have is for. When you talk, start talking about tour players, you get to massively different setups from week to week., Within golf ball. I'm curious how much they're actually changing their golf ball, depending on the setup of the golf course. Is that something that they do or are they typically gonna keep the ball the same and then make little equipment tweaks? What have you seen when it comes to some of that stuff?

Eric:

changing ball week to week. Yeah. I'd be surprised if they're changing ball week to week.

Rob Failes:

Yeah.

Eric:

maybe when they go play

Rob Failes:

Yeah.

Eric:

in Colorado or at in Mexico City where the elevation becomes a big thing. But I I doubt even there,. Tour players are very interesting. I mean, they'll, they'll play, t Titleist will make Pro V one from 10 years ago. Still, if, as long as they're on the conforming list still, they'll make'em. And players will, they'll be players that wanna play that Pro V one from 2018 or whatever.'cause that's the ball they

Rob Failes:

Mm-hmm.

Eric:

the one they wanna play. And they'll keep getting it in their locker at the tour event. Um, and so I, I think that. They typically become creatures of habit when it comes to that stuff, right? They're marking their ball the same way. They like to

Rob Failes:

Yeah,

Eric:

number. A lot of'em making generalizations, but, um,

Rob Failes:

no, for sure., Some of the equipment that you see, even like some of the. I think especially when it comes to three woods and things like that, like playing three woods from 15, 12, 15 years ago is, is not crazy abnormal. Like that, a lot of these level three, level four tour tor players are, um, they are sticklers when it comes, when they find a club that they love, they will stick with it until, until it breaks.

Eric:

I think like the driver, they're gonna be incentivized to switch very often, right?, Hey, you're gonna play the newest driver'cause that's in your contract or whatever, but free wood hybrid. Even some irons,, Corey Payman was playing some irons a couple of years ago that were like, 2005 Taylor made like TP r sevens or something. Some cra like,

Rob Failes:

Yeah, yeah,

Eric:

They're,

Rob Failes:

yeah. I'm not surprised actually to hear that.

Eric:

I think like you said, you get the feel and you wanna build consistency and you're building history with your equipment. And the golf ball is a very

Rob Failes:

Mm-hmm.

Eric:

'cause you just want to see it do the same things over and over and over again. So, that's probably the main consideration as you go into level three and four. But yeah, even in their practice, like they practice with their golf ball like on the range, they're, a lot of'em are gonna be hitting that golf ball. and I know this'cause I run a tour range and on the

Rob Failes:

Mm-hmm.

Eric:

they only get Pro V ones to hit. But some of them will still bring,, we'll find STRs on balls and Callaway balls and stuff mixed in with the balls that they'll be

Rob Failes:

Mm. Cool.

Eric:

I got my track man out and I'm trying to dial in my driver. I'm gonna hit, I'm gonna hit two sleeves of STRs on, into the, into the range. It just is

Rob Failes:

Yeah.

Eric:

that they're paying for'em, right. So they don't, they don't care.

Rob Failes:

Right. No.

Eric:

so yeah, I think they're pretty

Rob Failes:

Yeah.

Eric:

locked in on the ball. They like to play. But that, so hopefully Now I know Titleist does have a golf ball selector tool on their website too. So, um, if you're listening to this and you're thinking, I don't know which ball to play, or you're trying to make a decision based on that, I think it goes back to, the big decision points are gonna be, how premium are you willing to play. the more premium, the better, no matter what the marketing tells you, to those really, really good Titleist tailor made Callaway. on Bridgestone balls, and think a lot of it boils down to how it launches on your driver and how it feels whenever you're hitting it into a greenhouse, reacting on the green, and then how you like it to feel in the short game. Even on the putting, the pig app on the putting, maybe there's a feel that you. I could not care any less about how a ball felt in my putting. I don't think, I don't think

Rob Failes:

Yeah,

Eric:

ze a zero consideration for me even using a blade putter still all these years later.

Rob Failes:

Did you see the Odyssey? Happy Gilmore Putter yet.

Eric:

Is it a,

Rob Failes:

It's a hockey stick. It's pretty sweet. Yeah.

Eric:

Nice? it,

Rob Failes:

Yeah. It looks just like a hockey stick.

Eric:

you

Rob Failes:

Yeah,

Eric:

or.

Rob Failes:

it's a real, it's a, it is a, it is A-U-S-G-A conforming putter. You can go out and you can put with the Happy Gilmore putter if you'd like.

Eric:

have you seen the movie? Have you seen the new? Is it, how would

Rob Failes:

Yeah, I saw it.

Eric:

you get out of, out of, out of five

Rob Failes:

Oh my gosh. Oh man. I would say that I enjoyed it

Eric:

go.

Rob Failes:

quite a bit.

Eric:

That's

Rob Failes:

There were some really, really funny parts, especially when they brought in the tour pros. Scotty in particular they used him really, really well, I thought in the movie, John Daley was basically like their, like, they like that essentially like, oh, don't, don't be afraid. Don't forget to feed, feed, feed John daily right when you leave. Um. Which was, which was hysterical. I, it was basically a Liv, like they were commenting on Liv and they had Brooks and, Bryson playing on the the PGA tour side, which was really funny. So I love how they use the tour pros. Will Zel Torres was, was the old caddy from the first version.

Eric:

He looked just

Rob Failes:

He was.

Eric:

kid, but yeah.

Rob Failes:

He looks just like him. Which I thought was hysterical. So yeah, it, it got a little unhinged, I'm not gonna lie. A couple parts were just a little too out there for me. But, no, all in all, like it was entertaining. I it,

Eric:

I I have not yet seen the, the new one, but obviously a big fan of the old one. So, I don't know, one of these days we'll

Rob Failes:

yeah.

Eric:

probably when my younger daughters are not

Rob Failes:

Yeah.

Eric:

they're not

Rob Failes:

Yes.

Eric:

Sandler movies yet. Um,

Rob Failes:

Yeah.

Eric:

so switching gears here, I I wanted to, I, I was gonna think about doing this as a solo episode, just as like a short story.'cause I thought it was super interesting and a lot of insight to

Rob Failes:

Mm-hmm.

Eric:

um, from it. But this came up in my mind the other day, the craziest. Lesson that I probably ever taught, and I've been teaching golf a long time, right? 20 plus years. I had one of our interns in observing me teach the other day, and it was one of those really interesting, unique 30 minute lessons where, you know, comes in, doesn't really take lessons, is a 30 handicap, slices the ball, whatever. And we changed his grip and like he stops coming

Rob Failes:

Yeah.

Eric:

without ever talking about his swing. And she was just like. How did that happen? How did that, you know, and so she was like, that was amazing. And I said, well, I mean, that kind of stuff happens all the time. I mean, that's, that's fine. Um, but I was, I was thinking about sort of the craziest lesson.'cause you were saying like, what was the craziest one? So it came to mind. So the context around it is this gentleman came to me, member of the club who I would maybe see for a little tune up here and there. Nothing crazy. He was a D one college golfer. around 40 years old at the time or late thirties you know, with kids and job and stuff. He wasn't playing a tom, but he's still competing a little bit. he had a match play event. A match play event at CCV. They're our biggest tournaments of the year. We have individual match plays and uh, two man match plays and they're huge. he's in like the highest level, um, because he's a plus handicap and all this.

Rob Failes:

Yeah.

Eric:

And so he has a match. The next day he comes with this lesson and he's really funny. He's like. Oh, I just went on this golf trip, you know, a two day event I played in, and I don't remember what he told me he shot, but it was like not great, maybe 80 each day or something, which for him was really poor. And, so I'm like, okay, and we have a 30 minute lesson. He's like, I got a match tomorrow. I'm just, you know, hoping, or maybe it was two days, something like that. He's like, oh, I'm hoping we can find a little something. I'm like, okay, whatever. So

Rob Failes:

That's fantastic.

Eric:

there's, there's. Good takeaways from this story. so I'm out on the range, uh, just at West Hampton on the grass with my cell phone using it for camera. And that's, that's it. No track band, no nothing in this lesson. And, um, you know, he's hitting shots and he's just like, I just can't find, I can't hit, I can't hit solid shots going all over the planet. And I'm looking at it and I did, I did, what I typically do is I filmed him straight on and I'm watching, I see some things I film him from, from the face on view, and I said, Hey, tell me what you think about this ball position. And he looks at it and he goes, it looks like the ball position's really far back It looked to me like he was playing like a seven iron off his back heel. That's what it looked like to me, right? But I wanted to know what his

Rob Failes:

Nice. Yeah,

Eric:

as you know, like as you, if you're an avid listener to the show.

Rob Failes:

that's a, that's a great lesson for our young teachers who are, who are listening to this. That's a, that's a great lesson right there.

Eric:

so I, I showed it to him. I said, let's talk about the ball position. And he said, well, it looks really far back. I said, okay, well let's just move it up a little bit.'cause you're making the contact is not good. Face is being delivered all over the place. Let's just see what happens. so we move it up a couple swings later, he's hitting it really good, you know, just like hit it. Great. And that's. I said, all right, well, I mean, I think that's it. So what did we do? We worked on that skill of finding the, finding the ball and the club face at the bottom of the yard, right? That's all we did. And he's a highly skilled player, right? D former D one college golfer. um, so I said to him like, wow, you know, that was fun. You're in it. Great. Let me know how your match goes. He goes, I'll let you know. So I found this email today. It was from six years ago and I saved it'cause it's really funny and I sent it to you, so I'm gonna read it. It says, this is from May 6th, 2019. It says, Hey Eric, you asked me to check back in with you after our lesson to let you know how it went. Let's just say the weekend was pure golfing comedy. I almost didn't play as our match on Sunday.'cause I jacked up my right shoulder playing with my kids on Saturday. But I took a bunch of Advil and got out there. So I'm like, okay, this is interesting. I ended up making nine birdies at the river for my career low round. So, and then it goes on a little bit and he says,

Rob Failes:

That's awesome.

Eric:

this is, this is a really interesting part, he said. I felt like I was going to hit a pull top on every shot, obviously things worked out in the results department. So glad I got a checkup last week. Thank you for your help. So I think the point there is a, he and I worked through a solution that wasn't reworking his whole swing the day before a match. A big match'cause he mentioned who he played against with. So it's one of the better players at the club. He shot 63 that day on the James River, so he made nine pars and nine birdies. The James River is no joke. Uh, we hosted two US Amateur on that golf course. It's a William Flynn,, 10 years in a row now at Charles Schwab Cup playoff event on the champion store. So that is not what you would call a cakewalk golf course. And he went nine birdies. Nine pars and he said, I felt like I was gonna hit what a pole top on every shot. So I think the thing to note there is, um, a couple things like you were pointing out before, just, how do we work through a solution? But at the end of the day, he kinda went out there going like, I don't really trust what's going on, but I'm just gonna be really open-minded.'cause what I'm doing wasn't very good. Right. I wasn't hitting it on the planet. So I'm gonna go out with this new feel and see what happens. And mean,

Rob Failes:

Mm.

Eric:

I wonder what percentage of golfers, in a legitimate and competitive round of golf could shoot

Rob Failes:

Oh my gosh.

Eric:

birdies. I mean, it's planet Earth. Like very few, very,

Rob Failes:

Yeah.

Eric:

few people could shoot around like that. it was just really cool. It was, it was really fun to get a follow up email like that, and. I think that it was, I say it's the craziest lesson I've ever had because of the score, but I also kind of feel like he was so far away from feeling like that was an easy fix. You know, like for us it was like, ah, move the ball up three or four inches in swing. And he's such a good player that he was, like, I don't know if I could find anything with this, but I'm just gonna do it because I'm just, I'm, I'm used to trying to figure it out. so growth mindset there for sure. And, um. You know, I wish I had,

Rob Failes:

Yes,

Eric:

love those, I love the follow ups and I always tell my lessons. I'm like, let me know how it goes. And I, I rarely get too many follow up emails like that. But that one was pretty fun. So, um, I thought it'd be really fun to share that story just'cause I think there's a lot to learn there. Don't you think?

Rob Failes:

A hundred percent. Yeah. I mean, I think a lot of times with what we're asking golfers to do is appreciate the fact that their perception is not matching reality. Right? There's a disconnect. Right. So. It is a leap of faith. It is definitely a, uh, a skill that is easier said than done to go out on a golf course with other people playing around you and a scorecard in your pocket and commit to doing something that actually feels wrong. Not many people are willing to do that.

Eric:

And this is why people struggle to grow, in my opinion, right?

Rob Failes:

Yes.

Eric:

trying to do something that feels right. Right? that's a, and it's like, I want the, I want to control it.

Rob Failes:

Yep.

Eric:

to have it right. I want to have it safe. it's, it's like anything else, you're not

Rob Failes:

Yes,

Eric:

not gonna get in shape. To run a marathon by, not pushing yourself, you outta your comfort zone, right?

Rob Failes:

correct. Correct.

Eric:

always having to try to find that thing and then go for the next step, right? And in golf for some reason,

Rob Failes:

Mm-hmm.

Eric:

tend to revert to a safe space a lot. Golfers do this a lot in their practice.

Rob Failes:

Okay. Yes. Yeah, absolutely

Eric:

mindset of just challenging yourself to get outta the comfort zone and try to do something a little bit better and a little bit different. It can really pay off. Otherwise, you'll probably just end up being the same type of golfer that you've always been. Right? Like, we can, we can improve a little bit at different rates and, and have better

Rob Failes:

a hundred percent.

Eric:

but you really, really challenge yourself to find that bigger, you know, that level up kind of feel, probably

Rob Failes:

Yeah.

Eric:

in the same spot. So, growth mindset, man. It's

Rob Failes:

Yeah.

Eric:

deal. Huge deal.

Rob Failes:

It's, it is the thing, right? And that actually leads in perfectly to kind of a story that I had And, and I, uh, a lesson, I had a, I had a guy reach back out after, oh my gosh. It had to be. If not a year, it was darn close to a year. And I've got the email somewhere, but, for the sake of having to, having to find it, said, basically just updating me like, Hey, I've, I've gotten from, I mean, I think he was like a 20 when we first started all the way down to an eight and, um. I will tell you,'cause we saw each other pretty frequently. For the first, I wanna say six months of that, we were working together and I didn't see him much after that. At least for the first two months. He would tell you that histor, his scores did get better. If anything, they got a little bit worse, right? But. In the first lesson that we had, and this is why I'm gonna just keep beating this drum of, of training skill, is because in the very first lesson that we had, we got him to see something different in the ball flight right away, right? Without him feeling like his swing is that much different. So really, I presented this skill training as like an exercise. I was like, Hey, this is like the first five minutes of what you're gonna do when you go out to the range. When you go practice, if you want to do it before you go out and play, you can, I'm gonna leave that up to you. If you feel like it's too much, just, just warm up and, and just go play. But if you're gonna go out and train, this is gonna be the first five to 10 minutes of what you're doing. I need you to find your reference points, your actual margins of error for arch height, arc, location, forward and back, and clubface. And he absolutely like bought in. He was like, yeah, this is just what I do. Right? I just go out and the first 10 minutes, I'm just hitting tops. I'm hitting fat, I'm hitting toe shanks, heel shanks. I'm hitting big hooks, hitting big slices, and then I just check the box. I'm like, all right, I'm done. That's, that's, that's all I'm doing. And he got to the point, again, through, through again, through like six weeks, eight weeks, not really seeing scores change. But he freaking stuck with it. He kept doing it over and over and over again. And then it was like, you know, that, um, you know that cartoon where the, where the, where the little guy's gotta pick Axe and he's trying to, to pick his way out of the tunnel, right? And he gets to the very last one. He is like, oh, if you just, if you just do one more, if you just go one more swing, you're gonna, you're gonna, um. Find your way out of this tunnel, but he just turns around and walks the other way. Well, this guy actually, he went for it. He went for, he actually got that last, and he saw his way out, and then all of a sudden his score just plummeted. I mean, he's like, I got, I got better. Like I wasn't getting better. And then I got way better really quick because at some point it just clicked and it was like, all right. Like, I'm seeing like a couple hooks, or I'm seeing a couple fades and it's just like, no big deal. I just like change a little bit with my feel and then ball flight's back to straightish and, and he said he really started to be able to do it on the golf course because he, again, he's, he's very growth minded. He waits for just a, you know, three to five of, of something kind of similar before. He's like, all right, cool. That's just where I'm at today. And there's a high level of acceptance of that. I think golfers are, are a lot of times unwilling to accept that for whatever reason today you're just like bottom swings a little bit higher than what you want or a little bit lower than what you want. Or the face is a little bit more open than what you want. Like who cares? You don't have to know why it's happening. You just need to know what it is. And if you have field reference points to be able to change it, you can change it without.

Eric:

Yeah.

Rob Failes:

Missing a beat. And this guy did it. And I, I told him in the email, I was like, like, what have you been doing? Like, like, clue me. Like, he's like, yeah, I, I just keep doing skill stuff and, and I just could not be more proud of him because he just, he just kept sticking with it, kept sticking with it. And then,, he sees the benefit. That's, uh, that's probably my, one of my crazier stories. I mean, I've, I've just off, off the dome, but, um, but I think that's a great lesson is like, hey. Don't go switching your putter if it's, if it's not working, if you're not seeing the performance in your putting that you want after four rounds,

Eric:

I.

Rob Failes:

Don't go switching your, your, your coach. Don't go switching, um, your golf ball. Don't just wait for there to be a large enough sample size for you to be able to confidently say, okay, things are moving in, in a direction that I want or they're not. And then even if they're not. Right. Seek some help, seek some professional help, and just look and see. Okay, what are my actual options here? Am I, am I just misinterpreting this just slightly or do I really need to take a step back and pivot and go in a completely different direction? Like I think a lot of times golfers are just so willy-nilly about going in completely opposite paradigms. Like, okay, today I have this paradigm and I played well, so I'm gonna stick with that. But then the next day they don't play as well and they're like, oh, that must not be, that must not be correct. Like, wait, hold on. No, just take it, take a deep breath. Just sit there for a minute and just say, Hey, like. We are human beings. We are not robots. We cannot step in the same river twice. Just allow for some of that natural variability that happens as a result of you being human.

Eric:

I think it's super interesting that golfers some, whether they think this consciously or unconsciously, think, gonna find this one thing and then just repeat it forever. Right. And then if, if I don't repeat it exactly right, this very high skill thing that I'm

Rob Failes:

Right.

Eric:

then I've done it wrong. And I think that's what we just keep trying to preach on the show is like, no, no, no. It

Rob Failes:

Right.

Eric:

that. And Tiger Woods said, I just keep going back to Tiger. Tiger would say, yeah, I warm up and kind of see what I have. Right? Or like, you know, on the front nine I was kind

Rob Failes:

Yep.

Eric:

everything. So I made this little adjustment and I was able to, know, get the ball to go to the right a little bit if I needed it to. So. Tiger was the most skilled player that probably ever played the game, from driver to

Rob Failes:

Mm-hmm.

Eric:

I don't know that there would be any argument from anybody saying that, he was always training like that, right? He was always, he was always muddying it up and trying to figure out how to make it better, and hitting all the shots he talked about. I would warm up with the nine shots, I would hit these nine ball flight windows and all

Rob Failes:

Yeah.

Eric:

Tiger always skill trained like that so it, it was never

Rob Failes:

Yes.

Eric:

Which is interesting that he, went through the phases of changing his swing the way he did. But I guess he, know, I think there's some other, other parts at play there psychologically. But at the end of the day, tiger was giving us the, the blueprint, and then golfers are like, no, no, no. It worked yesterday. It should work today. It should work tomorrow. It should never change. I should always hit it like this, da da da, da. And all we're saying

Rob Failes:

Correct.

Eric:

just, just, just

Rob Failes:

Yeah, exactly.

Eric:

And acquire skill. And I think it, it's fair to say to your

Rob Failes:

A hundred percent.

Eric:

And eventually acquired skill, right? He worked on skill. He didn't

Rob Failes:

Yeah.

Eric:

skill, and then one day he was like, wow, I've got these skills. I've acquired it. You know, like I

Rob Failes:

Yes.

Eric:

I've gone through some phases where I've played a little more tennis than other times, right? It's not anytime recently, you know, you can, you can tell you play a little tennis, you're not hitting it in the good part of the racket. You don't really know why. You keep hitting, you keep practicing, keep playing with your friends. Next thing you know, You gotta hit that forehand and bam, it's right off the middle of the racket strings. Why? Well,'cause you acquired skill. There's no answer to it, right? Like you just, you, you got to that point where you were able to, your brain was figuring it out. And golf is like that too, if you let it and if you train it, and if you accept it and you work on it. And, so I think that's a really, really good encouraging story. About one of your students. For the people that listen to say like, just stick with it. Stick with the things that you know, especially this time of year, like this is the time of year to work on your skills. Build'em up, don't look for new swing changes.

Rob Failes:

Totally.

Eric:

skills and see, and see what you can do with it. So I really, I really appreciate that story.

Rob Failes:

And if in that first lesson he didn't see the golf ball do something different, like it's one thing to stick to an idea of like, oh, your elbow should be in this position, or the club should be in this position, or Your left hip should be doing this, and you're like, well, there isn't really any obvious evidence that it's doing anything. Uh, productive for me, it's just because this person believes that I should do that, versus an idea that you directly experience in the moment makes a difference to something that you care about. Because if in that first lesson, if I didn't get him to go from not ever being able to hit a ball, left of target to being able to hit a little draw that actually finishes at or just left of Target. Then I probably wouldn't have had him buy in and continue that process. So I think again, that's, that's as much of a, a lesson for our coaches as possible is like, even if the swing isn't exactly what you want, even if the rhythm's a little bit off, or if the grip's not quite what you like, or the posture is not quite right. It's so worth it. Just to give them the tools and give them the autonomy and to give them the power to be able to do something different with a golf ball when they want to do it. That I just think it's such an easy, no-brainer play call to make in the, especially if you know that you're gonna see the person again. If you know that you've got some bandwidth with this player and it's not gonna be just like a one-off and you know okay, well I can give them this skill training. They're gonna do it for two weeks and I'll come back and fix their grip and they'll come back and I'll, I'll adjust their posture, I'll, or they'll come back and I'll improve their rhythm. I just think that if they can go from hitting a top and then looking straight at you and saying, oh, why did I do that? To hitting a top and then having that relationship and that kind of, that conversation with themselves to say, oh, how interesting. The bottom of my swing was just a little higher than what I wanted there. Cool. Let's. Make another swing and see if that changes or not. Right. It's so worth it to make that intervention. Um, pun intended.

Eric:

No, agree. Totally agree. that is a great story and an encouragement to the listeners to go out there and work on your skills people. Well, Rob, that was a good episode. I feel like anything else you want to add here at the end of the

Rob Failes:

Yeah,

Eric:

conversation?

Rob Failes:

no, we've been kind of going through this new, uh, this format of having a quick question. A discussion of like levels one, two, and three, and then like some stories from our lesson tee. And uh,, we got like a two for one when it comes to the golf ball stuff, which I thought was great. And then, uh, yeah, no, that was a couple,, what I thought would be really valuable stories for the listener for sure.

Eric:

thank you for tuning in to another episode of the Golf Intervention Podcast. We are pushing on 50 episodes, which is so cool to think about. it's been awfully, awfully fun ride, and I think we'll be pumping these episodes out weekly. Um, if not a couple a week from, for the next, foreseeable feature., I'm just excited that you tune in. Hopefully you learned something today. And if you haven't subscribed to the feed, please subscribe. Just hit the subscribe button. We appreciate that. if you'd like to rate and review with that five star review, we'd appreciate that as well on both Apple and Spotify. And, that's it. That's all I have for today. I'm very appreciative of you tuning in. If you have any questions for us, you can find us on socials, you can find us on substack, which the link is always in the bottom. sign up for that free newsletter and you can also communicate with us on there and ask us a question, which we will definitely try to answer on the show if we haven't already. thank you for tuning in. Hope you make a lot of birdies this week, and we will catch you next time on the golf intervention.

Rob Failes:

Cheers.

People on this episode

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Eric Layton

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Rob Failes

Host