122. When a Friend Says "We Need to Talk" | Coaching Call with Courtney (Part 2)

What do you do when a friend says "we need to talk" and every part of you wants to run?

In this episode of the Speak Honest Podcast, Jenn Noble is back with Courtney for Part 2 of their live coaching series, and this one gets real. Courtney has a friendship confrontation on the horizon with someone who has historically made her feel like everything is her fault, and she is terrified. Jenn walks her through what is actually happening in her body before a hard conversation, why the fear is not the enemy, and how perfectionism and people pleasing are quietly running the show. They work through Jenn's three part framework from her bestselling book Dance of Attachment, regulate, validate, collaborate, and Courtney walks away with real tools she can use the moment things get heated. This is what live coaching actually looks like, messy, real, and incredibly powerful.

You might want to listen if:

• You feel anxious before difficult conversations with friends
• You tend to shut down or people please when you feel blamed
• You struggle with perfectionism in your relationships
• You want tools for emotional regulation in conflict
• You are working through anxious attachment patterns and friendship dynamics

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• Join the Speak Honest Academy 
• Ask your Coach a question >> ASK HERE
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• Schedule your Free 30 min Attachment Assessment with Jenn Today! 
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DISCLAIMER:  Speak Honest podcast content is informational, not professional or medical advice. Jenn is an ICF relationship coach, not a licensed therapist. Consult health professionals for specific concerns. Client opinions do not reflect Speak Honest’s stance. We aim for accuracy but are not liable f...

Transcript

Welcome Back And What We’re Practicing

SPEAKER_01 0:05

Hello, and welcome to Speak Honest. I am your host and certified relationship coach, Jennifer Noble. It has been my passion for over a decade to help women like you heal. What's been holding you back from having the relationships you deserve? Are you struggling with a relationship where you can't seem to voice your emotions, needs, and boundaries without having it blow up in your face? Then you have found the right podcast, my friend. Get ready for practical tips, empowering truths, and honest conversations. Now, let's dive in. Hello, ladies, and welcome back to another episode of Speak Honest. I am Jen Noble, your go-to relationship coach and author of the best-selling book, Dance of Attachment. And so today we are going back with Courtney. If you were here last week, you already know about Courtney and parts of her story. And if this is your first time joining us, welcome. You are jumping in at part two of an ongoing series where you get to witness coaching in real time with a real woman doing real work. If you want to go back and listen to last week's episode, you can, but I think you can pick up from right here, no problem. Last week we went deep. This week we're gonna get a little bit more practical. We are actually getting into difficult conversations. And specifically what happens in your body when one is coming up and it's starting to really freak you out. And what can you actually do about it in the moment? We also walk through a three-part framework that I outline in my book, Dance of Attachment, which by the way is now available on Audible. And the link is in the show notes if you want to check it out. It's a great way to be able to listen to the book. I read it myself, and so you're able to actually hear me read out all of the words that I put out into this book to get you to understand. What we talk about in the book is regulate, validate, collaborate. And I get into that with Courtney today. We get into what applying that actually looks like when you are activated, when your nervous system is flooded, and when the person in front of you is hitting every wound you could possibly have. Now, before we dive in, I want to tell you about the Speak Honest Academy, because what you're hearing in this series is exactly what happens inside of the Academy every single week. Live coaching calls, a community of women doing this work alongside you, and real-time support for the moments when you need it most. Now, if that is something that interests you, I'll talk more about it after the podcast here. But you can join us at speakhonestacademy.com or you can scroll on down to the show notes and click on the link down there. Now, as you're listening to my coaching call with Courtney, I want you to think about these. First, I want you to think about a difficult conversation you've been putting off and what comes up in your body when you think about it. Next, where are fear and blame or perfectionism showing up for you in your relationships? And what does regulation actually look like for you in a heated moment? And whether you have the tools you can reach for in that moment. And then lastly, how you might use the regulate, validate, and collaborate method the next time you find yourself in a hard conversation.

Courtney’s Fear Of The Talk

SPEAKER_01 3:10

Now, let's dive in. Hi, Courtney. I'm so glad that you're able to come back. I would love to know how I can help. I know that in the academy, we were talking a little bit about a conversation, a difficult conversation that you have coming up and that you wanted to maybe work through that. So I'd love to know how can I best support you? Give us a little background, all of that.

SPEAKER_00 3:36

Yeah, um, thank you for having me. So, kind of what we were talking about earlier, kind of recapping a little bit, is I have my friend Olivia, and I guess I thought we had a little bit of a what felt like to be falling out. It's more like text that was kind of never replied to, and then coming in contact like months later. We met up again. It seemed like it was okay, but then she comes up to me and she says, We need to talk. And I mean, historically wise, anytime that she has said that, um it usually does not go well for me. Somehow something ends up being my fault. Somehow, some way it always does. And so I am kind of terrified to have this conversation with her. And actually, one of the reasons why I was kind of pulling away a bit was because everything was my fault, and it felt like I had to change who I was in order to be accepted or to meet her standards and her safety. And I I really I cared about this person, and I so I wanted to be able to do that, but I am me, I am not this version of her that she needs to in order to keep herself safe. And I think because there has been such a long repetitive period where having these conversations with her, I think my nervous system has kind of developed this fear now to have this conversation with her because every time that topic is brought up, it's like I associate it with like fear because I know I am going to be in the wrong somehow. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 5:38

Yeah. And let's be clear, I don't think anyone likes the phrase we need to talk. I can imagine right now, anyone who's even listening, I just say to you, we need to talk. Everyone's bot my body just went like my stomach just curled in on itself, you know. It just was like, ah. So I think that's fair, especially given everything you guys have been through, and the way that she just kind of came up to you like that. That that's a lot. So I think that makes a lot of sense. I also hear a lot of fear behind what you're saying. You said that, like, I I fear this conversation. I fear being blamed again. I fear being in the wrong. And I think the first thing I want to touch on is good. Like genuinely speaking, I think oftentimes I say how we need to follow our feelings. Right? Our feelings are our signposts. Our feelings are literally the greatest things we have as humans. We these feelings should be something we like res revere. That's the word I'm looking for. Revere.

SPEAKER_00 6:40

To touch on that, like I I can definitely understand that. And I I remember being so much in love with feelings, and it's the reason why you like reading books and watching movies because those they can elicit these incredible feelings out of you. Oh, I love that. Yeah. And at the same time, sometimes I think we can get stuck and get drowned in those feelings. And that's when we spiral and when we keep revisiting or we can't go back. And so it's like being able to differentiate like the signposts that they were originally meant for versus drowning in them.

SPEAKER_01 7:20

Yeah, well, let's explore that because I love this concept a lot and I like the nuance.

SPEAKER_00 7:26

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 7:27

When we are getting our feelings met through outside sources, like for me, I need a good cry, I watch the movie Beaches. Every time, nonstop, it'll get me each time. You know what I mean? Like love beaches. It's a it's a sob. I don't know why I do it to myself, I do. Or

Feelings As Signposts Not Drowning

SPEAKER_01 7:45

I want to feel like romance, right? I'm gonna read like a trashy romance novel or like a super cute fantasy novel about dragons and like romantic relations. They're so cute, they're so fun. They give me that feeling, but they're not real. Oftentimes, we go to outside sources, to external sources to get those big dopamine feelings because they're safer than the ones we feel because of exactly what you said. We drown in them. And I know that this research comes from someone called Jill Bolti Taylor, who basically kind of realized that the average emotion that we have come up inside of us is 90 seconds long. No more. Honestly, if we were to track it, you see it lasts maybe only 15 seconds, 30 seconds. You see it sometimes. We do it inside the academy. I'm like, okay, can we feel that come up and out? They have like a quick cry and that's it. Where the drowning comes in is the rumination. And where the rumination comes in is the belief systems and the stories that we tell ourselves. So when it comes to feelings, when they get overwhelming, when we start drowning in them, it's from the stories that we're telling ourselves. So, for example, let me think of an analogy. But let's say you're like driving along a street and you see a sign that just has pictures on it, and it's like a horse and a guy riding it, but he has like a lasso in his hand. And so you can interpret it that sign however you want. You could interpret that sign as saying, oh my God, there's horses that are going to kill me, and so I can't go this direction. Or it's just a sign that says, Oh, horses are here, people will be riding them, be careful. So it's our interpretation of the sign that comes up. Tell me what's coming up for you as I say that.

SPEAKER_00 9:23

I was thinking, so those responses that we have that are pretty much um fight or flight responses, those fear when your amygdala is activated. Um I feel like maybe those aren't just feelings. And so because your fight or fight system is activated, those ones can last a little bit longer. And so I'm wondering because like that feeling of fear that gets triggered and re-evaluated, yes, it can be, it is uh identified based off of perception and based off of like how you're perceiving things, but then tell me like how is that different compared to the other feelings that we have? Because this is so much, I feel like more lasts so much longer as compared to some of our other feelings that we can have.

SPEAKER_01 10:09

And I think sometimes we can also, I guess, like become our feelings to a degree, or like well, so let's talk about the concept of the B T E A, right? So we have our beliefs, which influence our thoughts, which influence our emotions, which influence our actions. And actions, when done habitually, become our personality, right? Become who we are. So we have our BTEA and then onward. So you're not wrong. What you believe, what you think, what you feel, and how you act eventually become who you are, right? I mean, if you are constantly a person who is running, a lot of times, yeah, you become a runner. Like, I'm a runner. And I think that's okay for us to talk about ourselves in that way sometimes, right? Like, um, like I say, I'm a nerd. I love board games. I guess I'm a board gamer. And it's because of this, it's because of these ways in which our bodies are built. So you are correct in terms of our emotions are part of us, but oftentimes we then associate those emotions as us. So, for example, and I teach this in the academy, we have to learn the difference between a perception and a feeling. Because you can say, I am unloved. That's not a feeling. But we associate that perception with who we are and how we feel, and that we are that feeling. I am unloved. No, that's just a being. But how do you feel when you think you're unloved? Oh, I feel sad. But do you see how now, because of the way we've brought up been brought up, because of the way that we haven't been taught emotional intelligence in our life and our world and the way that we treat our society and our people, and especially little girls as they grow up, we become identified with the belief and with the feeling and the emotion. We don't know how to separate those. So that's what I'm saying. The goal here is to see these feelings and to observe them. Like you are doing a nature documentary. Like there's no other way to think about it. But you're like, oh, there's Courtney. She's being afraid again. There she is again. Oh, I wonder where that's coming from. Because if you're watching like two lions in the wild, you're not necessarily thinking, oh, this is exactly what they're going to do. You're taking notes, you're figuring out, oh, that's fascinating. Look at how they're hunting now. Look at how they're connecting with one another. You're observing.

SPEAKER_00 12:19

So it's essentially you're separating yourselves from your emotions. But then if you're constantly living in that state, like, are you living a life?

SPEAKER_01 12:28

Well, I mean, I think that's a great question. Are you living a life? If you're constantly living in a state where you believe you are your emotions, I think that's where we are right now in our world. I think that's how we get depression, anxiety, a lack of fulfillment, um, disconnection, unalignment, all of those things that happen. And that's why it's so important to dig deeper and to keep piecing them apart. It's like kind of like tearing the onion apart slowly but surely to see you are not your. So right now, you are not your fear. So when I say that, what comes up for you? To be honest, I'm not entirely sure. Okay, great. But like right now, you have a conversation with your friend coming up and you are afraid.

SPEAKER_00 13:08

I was gonna say my procrastination has been seen through.

SPEAKER_01 13:14

I pull us back. I love when your subconscious is like, but philosophical conversation, so I don't actually have to deal with this.

unknown 13:20

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 13:21

It's hard, I got her, I clock her every time. And so you right now are afraid of a conversation. You are not your fear. Courtney is not fear, Courtney does not equal fear, but Courtney is afraid. Courtney is also what she is empowered, she is having this conversation with me. She's incredibly smart, she's intelligent, she's questioning her friends' need for this conversation, and that is the part that I say good, right? We started this conversation saying you're afraid, good. I think you should be afraid because I think this friend has showcased to you time and time again that she might not be someone who is compatible with what you're looking for in a friendship now. Is that kind of making sense? Yeah, yeah, that fear is protecting you in the best way possible because otherwise you're gonna get into that conversation. She's gonna say something again, probably blaming you. And without this fear, you might fall right back in.

SPEAKER_00 14:26

You're right. And but I feel like I'm gonna be so overcome and overpowered by my fear that my ability to think and to have a conversation will be very challenging because I think a lot of times when we are in that space, and that comes back to grounding and being able to bring yourself back. And kind of what we were talking about earlier is in that finding that safe place in you, in your body, where you feel in your body, and be able to bring yourself back to that and kind of I guess developing a habit to be able to do that, to have that conversation, yeah, to kind of create your own safety because essentially what we do is we create our own safety, kind of like as we were saying, that

Perception Versus Emotion In Real Time

SPEAKER_00 15:10

by that feeling sometimes, like I think it's also like I don't know what to say. I I don't know what to say to her.

SPEAKER_01 15:22

Yeah. Well, let me back you up for a look because I think you brought up what is the next point. Yeah. Once you accepted that your fear is there, I can I can feel that you did. Your next step was, but I am going to be overcome by this fear. So that's what we're actually going to look at next.

SPEAKER_00 15:38

I was thinking, like, what if I am overcome by this fear? Because time and time again, like that has been the case where I haven't my rational, logical, and cognitive brain has abandoned ship.

SPEAKER_01 15:52

But it's not the fear, right? This is what I love so much. If it's okay if I interrupt real quick, it's not the fear that's causing the problem. The fear is the signpost. The fear is telling you what's going on. What you're afraid of is your action. See, but that's the thing.

SPEAKER_00 16:08

It's so interesting because, like, perhaps I think it is the story or the thing that we're telling, like, or we know it's the anticipation that just amplifies it so much more. But at the same time, I'm just it's so hard to get out of that space.

SPEAKER_02 16:29

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 16:30

And maybe we don't need to. What I want to encourage next, that's why it's just I wanted to pull it back real quick to talk about the overcoming of it, right? It's going to overcome you. What if? What if you can't control yourself? Now we're, like you said, we're back to regulation. We're back to emotional regulation at this point in time. That's actually what you fear. So you don't even really fear her. You fear that the words that she's about to say to you will cause you to become dysregulated and have you act in a way that's not in alignment with who you are. Is that correct?

SPEAKER_00 16:57

Yes. I don't want to go back to I am a recovering people pleaser.

SPEAKER_01 17:01

I do not want to go back to that place. Great. So this is now the goal setting that we start going into. First off, you will absolutely accidentally people please her. There will not be a doubt. This is the first time you're having a conversation with someone after really learning a lot about yourself and overcoming so much and healing and doing your somatic deformations and doing all that. So the first step is releasing the need to be perfect in this conversation. So when I say that to you, you do not need to be perfect in this conversation. You can mess up, you can get triggered, you can shut down, you can get dysregulated, and you can try and you can practice. How does that feel?

SPEAKER_00 17:41

I I definitely feel that little bit of fear kind of in my chest. I think I associate um being blamed with messing up. You messed up is your fault.

SPEAKER_01 17:58

Yes, yes. And something that you said earlier, which I thought was really impactful, is you said, I am me. And me is flawed. Me is imperfect, me is practicing and trying and getting it wrong, and trying again. Yeah. I just saw you breathe there.

SPEAKER_00 18:22

What's going on? I think I was just thinking about all those times, I think, in life that we go through, whether or not it's work with relationships or anything, it's it's all based on perception, and you can see a six, the other person can see a nine. Um, but I feel like we have a culture of blame, it's so impermeated throughout everything in all aspects of life.

SPEAKER_01 18:51

Yes. And I'm just gonna throw this out there on a philosophical level for you, so I can scratch your brain candy in these places. I know. You believe there's a culture of blame because that is your perception. I actually don't see the blame out in the world very much like you do, because that is not my issue. You know what, you want to know what my my belief of the world is? I believe everyone is like impatient with each other. I believe everybody like thinks everybody's annoying. But I've shared with you multiple times what's my biggest wound is that I am annoying.

SPEAKER_00 19:27

Our perceptions are based off of the wounds that we have.

SPEAKER_01 19:30

Shapes. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. And to be clear, they are shaped as well in terms of what you were taught as a child in what's called, you know, um, pre-verbal trauma to some extent. Not that our parents are terrible people, with you know, we say the word trauma and it becomes like this big word, but just trauma is anything that happened or didn't happen that you couldn't quite process. And so we sometimes even have pre-verbal trauma of things that happen to us. We'll never know that they happen to us because our brains and memory aren't forming at that point in time. But if you were constantly blamed for things and then that continued on, and then you have those memories as children, and they keep going, they keep getting reinforced, that will be your pattern to check on for the rest of your life. And that's okay. So as soon as that's what I think I was working with you in the academy just yesterday, trying to map where the blame lay like lands in your body because the more you can be aware of the fact that that is an old wound coming up and it's not real, the faster you can flip it.

SPEAKER_00 20:39

Uh, so

Blame Wounds And The Pull To Be Perfect

SPEAKER_00 20:40

it's really seeing recognizing that it's not real, but it feels so real.

SPEAKER_01 20:44

Oh god, it does. I mean, even I I think I was sharing this, but just the other day I had to have a really big conversation with my son's teacher, uh, principal really, because it's like been escalated in his high school, this big thing's happening. And I'm sitting there and I'm feeling a very familiar feeling in my hands. And I get this feeling when I think I'm being too much, when I think I'm like just coming on too strong, I'm being do you hear the subtext in that? Even I'm trying not to say it, but I will. Annoying, right? I am a burden, I am annoying, I am difficult. Those three things hit me the same. They're very, oof, they just right there. When I was in that meeting and that would happen, I could start to feel it. Oh, actually, I don't know if you can kind of see, but my hand started shaking thinking about it. So I think I'm pulling it up. That's when I knew there's a wound coming up. If I'm not careful, I will start to act out in ways that my patterns dictate when I become difficult and annoying, which actually sometimes is I get worse.

SPEAKER_00 21:41

How do you know when Because in the moment it it feels so real? It feels so like for me, um fault, blame, imperfect, all of that. How do you bring yourself out of that? That to realize that it's not real. Or I I even now I find it hard to believe that it's not real.

SPEAKER_01 22:07

Well, tell me about that, because like it's just it's not real. So right now, if you were to be blamed for something, if Olivia blames you when you have this conversation, you see a six, she sees a nine. Is it real? To you, is it real? Is it who you are? Is it what you know about yourself?

SPEAKER_00 22:21

Ah, I see because the other person is saying something about me that is not necessarily aligned with my truth because it's based off of the perception that they are seeing from their own wounds and how they perceive that.

SPEAKER_01 22:35

Exactly. And if we allow them their reality, then I do want to walk through the three-step communication process with you before we finish up today, like just to make sure that you have it ready to go, because that's the practical side of this conversation. But I want to be on the impractical side, so to speak, and to talk about this stuff with you so you could see where to get it. But just because she says you're a bad friend, you know what? You might be a bad friend to her because she might need more than you can give. But that's like going into a restaurant and saying, You're a bad chef because you cooked me chicken and I wanted sushi. You're a bad chef.

SPEAKER_00 23:13

Because you didn't cook my egg exactly how I wanted it.

SPEAKER_01 23:15

Yeah, because you're like, you're a bad chef because I wanted a four-star Michelin meal, and you're a short order cook, and you made me scrambled eggs, and I wanted holiday sauce with my poach steak. You're a bad chef. Is that true?

SPEAKER_00 23:31

No, but I guess I feel guilty for not being able to be that.

SPEAKER_01 23:35

Yes. That right there is where then we piece it apart one more time. And why do you feel guilty that you can't be that?

SPEAKER_00 23:47

I guess it's because I'm supposed to be this. And even this sounds ridiculous to me, actually. Go ahead. I love when that comes up. Yeah. Get it out. It's like I'm supposed to be this version of someone that is perfect for her, and someone to basically cater to, and because I'm not seen as perfect in her eyes, I am not perfect. But then I'm not perfect anyways. So it's like it's that is the truth. And so I think that perhaps that reinforces the fact that I'm imperfect, and maybe that is what is guys there being perfect is is associated with being bad and being wrong.

SPEAKER_01 24:39

You can see how a lot of this, even in all the different places, if we were mapping this out, right? If we were together and I was like drawing this out for you and stuff like that, you would have seen that each one of these bubbles keeps pointing back to perfectionism. Do you see that? It's interesting. So there's a really big part of you that feels like you need to be perfect to stay safe.

SPEAKER_02 24:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:00

If I were perfect, then I wouldn't be hurt. I wouldn't be at fault. I wouldn't be wrong.

SPEAKER_01 25:06

Yes. But if you were perfect, you wouldn't be you.

SPEAKER_00 25:10

I don't think it would matter if I were perfect at all, because somehow somebody would find something if that is how someone wanted to. True.

SPEAKER_01 25:18

And if but if you were perfect for her, then you wouldn't be you. And your very first thing you said, and I think this honestly is your affirmation that I'd like to see you continue with is I am me. You are not put on this earth to be her person. I think I am also scared to be me. Ah, that's a whole let's dive into that next point. Because that's that that's but that you're not wrong. I think that's where a lot of people get that. So if you can be someone, something for someone else, then you can stay safe because you don't actually have to figure out who you are.

SPEAKER_00 25:53

That is the correlation because being safe to be you, I think that's really kind of what it is and what it comes down to. Because I did do the somatic reprocessing about like I am me, which is why I can say that statement with such confidence. Um being, I think it is that fear to be criticized for being you, for being who you are, and for that to be not accepted, and you being wrong for having orange hair.

SPEAKER_01 26:26

Yes, yes, exactly. Yes. But that's why over time, what we're gonna do is we're gonna start accepting ourselves. We're gonna love so much of ourselves that it doesn't matter anymore what someone thinks. So you're gonna have this conversation. And I'm not, again, to be clear, this conversation is gonna be hella hard. Okay. You are not like at some like healed, amazing state that you are just gonna like excel beyond belief in this conversation and like that's it, you're healed, you're you're graduated, you never have to come back.

SPEAKER_00 26:59

Like please, because like it's been a couple years. I'd like to get there.

SPEAKER_01 27:04

Thank you. There is a story I tell in my book, Dance of Attachment, where I talk about a very, very difficult conversation that I have to have with someone I considered my best friend for most of my life. And back in 2019, in a very heated moment, I hit her, right? I slapped her. And I regret that moment all the time and all of that. The conversation that happened two years later, when she reached out to me out of nowhere, and I was like, what the fuck is this about? I thought we were done. She reached out to me two years later wanting to talk about it. And I did not want to have that conversation. I I wouldn't, I don't want to have that conversation today.

SPEAKER_00 27:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:49

So, like, I definitely didn't want to have that conversation in 2023, right? That was three years ago. And I was, I'm different today, three years later, than I even was then. And that conversation that I had with her healed me in ways that I never would have had if I hadn't had that conversation. Yeah. So this conversation that you're about to have is going to rewire parts of your brain to show you how capable you are, to show you what you are.

SPEAKER_00 28:19

I was afraid it would make me worse. That um the pain that kind of got me into the situation from where I am.

SPEAKER_01 28:27

No matter what you do, there's no, I can almost guarantee you this. Okay, fine. There's probably like 1%. So, like, God forbid. But I can almost guarantee you, considering you have the support system of me right now, you have these conversations we're having, in addition to the support of the academy and how much more you have learned, this conversation is going to quite literally rewire parts of your brain to showcase to you that you can have difficult conversations. Okay. So, with that said, let's go through the three-step method in having difficult conversations. Okay. But I'm also curious, like, why am I so afraid of her?

You’re Not Afraid Of Her

SPEAKER_01 29:05

Why are you so afraid of her? Let's see. Why are you so afraid of her?

SPEAKER_00 29:11

She represents. Go on. No, I was thinking about like her past actions that instills fear.

SPEAKER_01 29:19

You're afraid of her for because she gave you reasons to be, and her actions represent past transgressions that have happened against you. To be honest, this is not all about her. No, it's not. She represents, she represents all of the other people in your past lives, you know, in like not like your past lives, like in like a spiritual way, like literally like your little parts, like the different stages of your life you've lived. And there's also, and we've talked about this before, even with men, there's probably a reason why you were friends with her for so long and why you guys got into such a deep, close relationship, because people like that often represent the unhealed spots inside of ourselves. She was a friend who did often blame you, who did often say that you were falling short. Uh, that definitely reminds me of your family. So, what you are about to do here in this conversation with her could potentially set you up to eventually have these conversations with your family. And it is no wonder why parts of you are like, shut this down now, I'm so scared. Like, you're about to show up for all of those past selves of you that never had anyone to stand up for them, that never had anyone to protect them. You now get to be that woman that is protecting that little girl and saying, no, she is doing great. And she is a good friend. And I'm sorry that you can't see that, but she is an amazing friend, and I wish that you could get to a place where you could see that.

SPEAKER_00 30:50

That's so interesting. I think it's more like I maybe I just didn't know how to stand up for myself because I never would have even thought that beautiful beautiful line that you just said. I never, I think, would have thought to say that.

SPEAKER_01 31:07

There's a beautiful like meme going around Instagram right now that says like you grew into the woman who would have protected your little girl. And that means everything.

SPEAKER_00 31:18

Maybe the thing that I'm afraid of, or the thing, reason why my protective parts are so big is because I feel like I don't know how to protect myself. Or like to be able to say the right thing to do that. Say the right thing. Catch that? Perfectionism.

SPEAKER_01 31:34

Uh-huh. And that's how you did it. Remember, you asked me the question of like, but how do you know what's real, like in the moment? Like, how do you know it's not real? It's just those moments right there. It's just noticing a familiar feeling, hearing a word of something like the word right. Well, that's not right. Who gets to say? Wait a second. There's a pattern. And that's all it is. So I do, I do want to touch on regulate, validate, collaborate with you real quick. Because I keep hearing you say, but I don't know how, but I don't know how, but I don't know how. So I want to give you the structure to know how.

SPEAKER_00 32:06

That's interesting though, because I know I know how. I I've I've it's like I've done that before. I've been in this program for a while. No, I mean, that's fair too.

SPEAKER_01 32:16

But just because you have doesn't mean like we know what we're doing. So so walk me through. So something gets triggered in your body. Yes. Okay. Talk me through the first step. Regulate. How do you plan? So I here's a really great, also just life hack for yourself, for anyone listening. We're gonna visualize. We're gonna visualize being at that conversation, and we're going to start visualizing what it looks like to do the difficult parts. And this will start teaching your body and your nervous system that you can take care of this and you are capable. So you know her well enough. She's gonna say something that triggers you. You probably right now even know what it's gonna

Regulate With Grounding That Works

SPEAKER_01 32:55

be. Yeah, I saw that face. Yeah. So if you think that in your head and you have it, how can you regulate in that moment? What are you gonna do?

SPEAKER_00 33:07

Find that part of my body that is safety and grab onto that like it's a life vest.

SPEAKER_01 33:15

Yeah. And for you, we found this out yesterday was your solar plexus, right? Mm-hmm. And for you, the blame came up here in your chest area, correct? See how we're mapping? Beautiful. Now, how are you going to pull that down? Like, how are you going to put that back in your solar plexus? How are you gonna regulate there?

SPEAKER_00 33:32

I think I was thinking, just imagining myself going to that location. To do that, you have to go past the fear.

SPEAKER_01 33:39

Can I ask you a practical question? Go for it. Are you able to visualize while having a conversation? Uh probably not. Okay. So let's do some really easy techniques when it comes to grounding as well. So one of them is um colors. Have you ever done this?

SPEAKER_00 33:57

Yeah in any of your okay, find all the things in the room with the color.

SPEAKER_01 34:01

So, like right now, pick pick a color. Like, pick a color in your room. Say like yellow. Great. Can you find a couple yellow things? Yes.

SPEAKER_02 34:12

Perfect.

SPEAKER_01 34:16

Say them out loud to me. Just be like, I mean, unless you want to, but you know what I mean. Like practice what that feels like. Like, oh, Jen's wearing a yellow sweater. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 34:25

I thought it was white.

unknown 34:26

No.

SPEAKER_01 34:27

That's fair. That's fair. It is technically yellow, but okay. Wow, it's like you don't even see me. Like, where are you, Jen?

SPEAKER_00 34:38

Okay, so there's um a yellow book. There's a yellow Lego, um, a yellow sticker, yellow manila envelope. There is a yellow created from the sunlight.

SPEAKER_01 34:54

Now, as you're doing that, feel your anxiety go back down to your safe space. So, like, do it again. Look at the yellow. And then as you're looking at the yellow, be like, almost like you're putting. This just came up for me for you right now. It's almost like you're putting those yellow pieces into your safety spice. And right now, what I'm doing is I'm literally grabbing them and I'm putting them into my solar plexus. So here's the yellow book. Here's the yellow Lego. Oh, there's the yawn again. I think you're a yawner when you regulate. I've seen this a couple times. I love it. Yawn, if you could pretend to yawn. Can you like okay? Can you just do a yawn right now? Great. God, and I swear to God, if she says, Am I boring you? I'm just just laugh because it's like, there's blame again. So like I can't even imagine if someone that'd be so funny to me.

SPEAKER_00 35:56

She would totally say that.

SPEAKER_01 35:57

I know. And so I'm thinking, like, great, but just yawn. Because that's also going to be like, you'd be like, especially if you explain to her, be like, well, sometimes I do think that I'm getting blamed for things. And then you yawn and she goes, Am I boring you? Be like, that right there is a great example. So we're building things up. But again, I don't want to get us off set track. So what we're doing right now is regulating, because we cannot have a conversation with someone if we are dysregulated. It's just very difficult. And it is okay if this conversation gets too heated and too hard for you to say, can we have this conversation later? Remember, you always have an out. And that's the first step. So in regulate, we do the raise method, right? Remove, anchor, inquire, stories,

Validate Without Agreeing

SPEAKER_01 36:35

and equilibrate. So in the moment, you can always just be like, oh, I got to use the bathroom. It's my favorite one.

SPEAKER_00 36:42

Beautiful Yannigan. No, that's good. That's good. I was thinking, like, let me just um take a hoppasquat um out there at the side since we're in the middle of nature and we don't have a bathroom located there.

SPEAKER_01 36:54

Yeah, I don't know, like where you're like walking or whatnot, but it's like, yeah. You could even just be like, can I think about that?

SPEAKER_00 37:00

Let me just remove myself from the general location.

SPEAKER_01 37:04

Just go.

SPEAKER_00 37:05

It's like, thank you.

SPEAKER_01 37:06

Maybe, maybe you need to tie your shoe.

SPEAKER_00 37:10

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 37:11

See what we're doing right now? We're finding ways to pause and to remove ourselves from the conversation. Because the next step in this one is gonna be huge. I need you to be able to validate her. If you want to have a conversation where you're getting heard, where you are being heard, and you're having an effective conversation, it's gonna come with validating. This one is going to be difficult because she most likely will not validate you. It will be hard. But you need to see her nine at all times. Even if she's not willing to see your six. But you need to also see your six. This is why they're difficult conversations, because oftentimes the most um what's the word I'm looking for? Like highly emotionally intelligent person is going to have to carry the bulk of this conversation, yes. But she's gonna say something like, Well, I just really needed you to be, you know, I just you should have been doing this more. That's probably what she'll be talking about, right? Like, well, you should have been doing you shouldn't, you shouldn't have told me you could come on whatever trip and then not come or whatnot. You'd be like, you know what? You're right. I kind of learned that that about myself too, and I won't I don't want to do that in the future either. And would you like to hear why I did that? Because I was afraid of you. If you want to, but otherwise you'd just say, Yeah, you're right. I probably could have been better. Thank you for telling me that. I could have been better at that.

SPEAKER_00 38:47

But also generally, I did I was doing what I could. I literally validate her first. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 38:55

So I love your justification for yourself and I love your innocence, but you don't need to tell her that. This is that's for you inside. She may not necessarily want to hear that because that doesn't matter to her. We first have to validate someone before we can say our side.

SPEAKER_00 39:10

Got it. So basically, um, yeah, I can see how that's frustrating.

SPEAKER_01 39:17

Yeah, that's it. Yeah, I can see how that's frustrating. And then she's gonna be like, Great, so you won't do it again? No, I can't promise that. Okay, that works for me. Yeah, like that's the difference. Like, just because you agree with someone and not agree, just because you validate someone doesn't mean you agree with them.

SPEAKER_00 39:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:33

So I want you to just get in a habit. So if I say to you something to the effect of like, um, hey Paige, it's uh it's really sunny outside. Yes, it is. Great, great, perfect. Hey, um, it's really cloudy outside. I can see how you think that. Gorgeous! Oh god, I'm so proud of you right now. You got this, yes. See how both of those things you were able to kind of pause and think about. And that's what I want us. Like, if we can learn validation, we could literally take over the world. I say this to anyone. Like, validation is like the number one thing you can have in a toolbox to really keep a conversation flowing at all times. So we have regulate, we have validate, and now we're going to collaborate. And this is just merely going to be

Collaborate Or End The Friendship

SPEAKER_01 40:20

if you want this, and this is the hardest part for a lot of people of like, do you still want a friendship with her? What is this going to look like? You get to decide that. And this is that moment where unfortunately I cannot tell you what to do or say because you'll have to find out in the moment what you want. And that's the part we get afraid of. But just remember, you can always change your mind. I know my people pleasing part is gonna come out full force. Absolutely, she will. And you know what's gonna happen? You're gonna do things in the moment, and then you're gonna be like, shit, I shouldn't have said that. We're gonna be allowed to go back and have a different conversation with her later to even say, Hey, um, I know I said I would do this thing and I can't. And she's gonna be like, whatever, this is you did this again. You'd be like, You're right. I did do this again. You see what I do? I get scared when I'm around you and I say things that I don't mean. And I'm really trying to work on that. Here's how you can help me with that. Stop fucking scaring me all the time, right? Like that's what I like, that's what I'm trying to get to. But like, we're not gonna talk to her that way, of course.

SPEAKER_02 41:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:19

But as I'm wrapping up here, because I'm just taking a look at the time real quick. That's what I want you to just be mindful of. Regulate, validate, collaborate.

SPEAKER_00 41:29

What can we do together to work about this? But I know that it's gonna become like, well, you can do this and you can do that, because I have tried that before. And I know all I've gotten was like, well, you need to change. It might be a breakup conversation. Yeah. I'm like, that doesn't work with me. This is this is a relationship where two people trying to work together. It's not of one person, like you have to change.

SPEAKER_01 41:53

Yes, that come in with that energy, girl. You come in with that energy. I don't care how angry she gets at you. That's gonna be amazing. And you're gonna show up for that little part of yourself that needed that? Yes. I love that. All right. Is this a good place for us to wrap up right now? Yeah. Okay. All right. You'll come in, you'll tell us how it all went. We'll see how it goes.

SPEAKER_00 42:13

The pieces in the solar places. I actually like that.

SPEAKER_01 42:16

Um just every time, just like look up at the sun and take it in and then see if there's like anything else yellow. Maybe a yellow. Take a little piece of sunshine, put it in your pocket. Take a little sunshine, put it in. I don't, that's not the lyrics of the songs, but yes. I actually think it is. That's so, so perfect. And then the next part of a difficult conversation will come in the aftermath. And we'll talk about that next week because we'll talk about what are the ruminations going on, how did the conversation flow, how what are the things that you would like to work on later, and what we could do is that next step process of finding those moments and then rewiring them. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:52

It's still so incredible to me how you see the world is based off of your own parts and your own wounds.

SPEAKER_01 43:02

It is a little bit, it sometimes both becomes very freeing and also a little bit, I'll be honest, a little matrix-y sometimes in terms of like, wait, do I create my own suffering all the time? Like, am I in pain right now because of me or because of the world? And like, don't let your brain go too far into thinking about it. Yes. But the fun part is you get to like imagine you could go into this conversation and be like, this is going to be the most fun conversation I've ever had because I get to take every tool I've ever had and I've learned inside of the Speak Oddness Academy and everything Jen has taught me, and all the things the women and all the other work I've done, and I get to practice it all today. Oh my gosh, how exciting is that? That reframe could potentially change the way you see the conversation, and that's your perception. That's the fun part. So, all right, well, I'll wrap us up there, and I will speak with you next week, okay? Okay. All right, thank you.

Key Takeaways From The Coaching

SPEAKER_01 44:00

All right, everyone. That was part two of our ongoing series with Courtney. And I just love her for doing this out loud for all of you. It's really vulnerable for someone to come on here and sit in their real fear and have real conversations and real coaching while she's trying to figure herself out. And she stayed in it. And perfectly, she stayed in it. And she had some philosophical detours. I see you, Courtney. I know what you do, but she stayed. And that's the whole point of all of this. It's important to remember that healing isn't linear. You learn something, then life tests you on it immediately or sometimes later on. And sometimes you pass and sometimes you don't. But both are part of the lived experience. And what I want you to carry from today's session is this your emotions are not the enemy. That fear before a hard conversation, that is information. The frustration that comes up when you feel blamed, more information. The sadness underneath the people pleasing, also information. The work is learning to listen to what it's telling you instead of just reacting to it or trying to push it away. And that's exactly what regulate, validate, collaborate is built for. It gives you a structure to stay present when everything in you wants to shut down or say yes, even though you mean no. So if you want to go deeper into that framework, it's all in Dance of Attachment,

Three Coaching Moves Behind The Scenes

SPEAKER_01 45:25

now available on Audible. And the link is in the show notes if you want to check it out. Now, for those of you who are listening to my coaching calls, and maybe you're a coach or a counselor or a practitioner, let's look at three key things I did to help support Courtney in this session. The first thing I did was keep her on track. There was a moment where Courtney started going really deep into the philosophy of emotions and feelings, and I gently called it out. And this is because I could see what was happening. I've worked with her for quite a while and I know what her subconscious does. And her subconscious was taking on a very interesting intellectual detour. So that way we didn't have to deal with the actual integration of the conversation that she was afraid of. See how that works? And I named it with warmth, but not with confrontation or not with a right-wrong approach. Because the goal is never to make someone feel caught or wrong. It's to help them see themselves a little bit more clearly. The second thing was when Courtney kept saying, but I don't know how. And I stopped there because she did know how, she does. And she had been doing this work for over a year now inside of the academy. So instead of just teaching her the framework, I asked her to walk me through it first. Because sometimes what someone needs, it's not more information, it's to be reminded of what they already know. And then the third thing, there was a moment when we shifted from talking about her fear of Olivia to realizing the real fear was losing herself in the conversation, becoming so dysregulated that she couldn't control herself, people pleasing her way through the conversation again and again. And that distinction matters enormously because once you know what someone is actually afraid of, then you can start to work to piece it apart. And we could start building real tools around that specific fear. Now, as facilitators, it's important for us to remember that our goal is to help someone feel more capable inside the moment. And that takes patience, specificity, and a willingness to follow what's actually alive in the room rather than just sticking to some script that we learned. Now, if you're listening to all of this and you're thinking, oh, Jen, I want to do this kind of work with you. I want this kind of support. I want what Courtney has right now. Well, I want you to know that that is exactly what we do inside of the Speak Honest Academy. When you join the Academy, the foundation of everything that we do in there is the Dance of Attachment course. It is a 10-module course that walks you through all of the tools you need to become secure. The regulate, validate, collaborate, yep, it's in there. It is in module eight. We cover how to understand your patterns, how to regulate when you are activated, how to show up in your relationships without losing yourself. And yes, how to have difficult conversations like the one you heard Courtney preparing for. That is the foundation of everything. And then on top of that, you have the live coaching calls that you get with me twice a week. You get a community of women like Courtney who are doing this work together alongside you, who get it, who understand the pain and the frustrations and the struggles. And then you get real-time support for the moments when life is actually happening and you need someone in your corner. Now, if you are ready to start shifting your patterns in your relationships, in your conversations, in

Join The Academy And Closing

SPEAKER_01 48:50

your body, then come and join us. I want you to head to speakhonistacademy.com or scroll down to the show notes and click on the link down there. And just one thing to take with you today think about a conversation you've been avoiding and notice where you feel it in your body. That is your starting point. You are not your fear. You are just learning slowly, imperfectly, bravely, to walk towards it, anyways. All right, ladies, I'll speak with you all next week. Take care. As we wrap up today's conversation, always remember that healing is a journey, not a destination. And it is an honor to be a part of your healing journey. If you want to dig deeper into the topics we covered today, be sure to head over to our show notes, where you can find all of the valuable information mentioned in today's episode right there. And please remember to rate, review, and subscribe if you enjoyed today's podcast. Your feedback means the world to us and helps others discover our podcast. Until next time, remember to speak up and speak honest.