Grieving is a part of being human, and yet we spend a lot of energy pretending we're not wrecked by the bitterness of death and loss of all kinds. When you're neurodivergent, grieving can be especially challenging. People don't understand our big feels on a regular day - how could they hold our pain???
Friend - you are not too much. Spend time with us as we honor the 18th anniversary of our mother's death as we tell stories and talk about the grind culture of grief.
Sleepy Sisters podcast is hosted by Elizabeth Brink and Sarah Durham. This show is unedited and often unprepared for, so we hope you enjoy our resistance to perfection!
www.thrivingsistercoaching.com
www.kattywhompous.com
Grieving is a part of being human, and yet we spend a lot of energy pretending we're not wrecked by the bitterness of death and loss of all kinds. When you're neurodivergent, grieving can be especially challenging. People don't understand our big feels on a regular day - how could they hold our pain???
Friend - you are not too much. Spend time with us as we honor the 18th anniversary of our mother's death as we tell stories and talk about the grind culture of grief.
Sleepy Sisters podcast is hosted by Elizabeth Brink and Sarah Durham. This show is unedited and often unprepared for, so we hope you enjoy our resistance to perfection!
www.thrivingsistercoaching.com
www.kattywhompous.com
Okay. Oh, here we are. I'm Elizabeth brink and Sara Durham's here with me, but she's laughing really hard. And that is exactly the way we want to start an episode about grief. With maniacal laughing. Well, actually, I would like to start with a little story because I have a little story from this morning. Wait, before you tell your story. But I obviously the title of this is about great. But I do want to give a little bit of a content warning that we may talk about stuff that is upsetting to others that might be upsetting to us. We're not intending to talk about things like that. But we are going to talk about grief and death and dying and disease and all of these things. And so if that is going to be uncomfortable, or if you notice, as you're listening to this, those 26 of you out there, if you notice that you're feeling uncomfortable, please take care of yourself. You don't you really don't need to hear whatever this is I'm laughing because I'm just imagining that person may feel like oh, great, thanks for permission. I also want to say another warning that there could be curse words today. Oh, mark it when we upload it. We don't edit it. So there you go. All right, tell your story, Sara, let's hear it. All right. So you know that like two years ago, I finally back to the cemetery, because today is the anniversary of our mother's death. And I went to the cemetery for the first time, and which, you know, she's been gone 18 years today. So you're like two years ago? What that's the first time. But you know, listen, we're not going to get into all that right now. So that day that I went was actually very, very good. For me, it was a huge turning point in my grief, in just the right timing for me. But there was a lot of it was like a comedy of errors that day because it was kind of spontaneous. It was about 107 degrees. Oh, gosh, in Texas. It was spontaneous. It was after dropping my eldest off to live back in Austin after college. And I just didn't prepare and I didn't know where she was. There was a lot of tears and sweat, and awkwardness. And what do I do here and all of that. So fast forward. This week, I thought, I think I might go to the cemetery again. And so, you know, I never know if that's actually going to stick with me. So this morning, instead of going to exercise class my career the other way. And I drove 30 minutes out to the cemetery. And I thought, okay, it's beautiful outside, it's like 50 degrees, there's a wonderful breeze like this is going to be the redemption, you need it. Okay. So I'm like, at least the weather conditions are good. So I go out, I thought this time, I'm going to get flowers, right? Last time. It's just like to get there. I was so nervous. And like, all hell this energy rent. So I thought I'm gonna go I'm gonna get flowers, or mother love flowers. And I thought even though my grandma has dementia and does not know that we will be putting flowers, I felt like it would please her it would tickle her to know that we've put flowers on there. And so I go to the store and I get this these roses. And I'm like, Oh my gosh, it was enough for me to like put one in honor of Francie and Edwin and Nora and Sam and me and you and all of the kids and grandkids. I thought I'm just going to be so this can be good. Let's give me another good cry and so special. So special. And so I drive over there and I'm super excited. And I park. And where's this going? Yeah. I'll be damned if the ground crew is not mowing, the stretch where she lay it peace. Okay, so we get on with the car and I'm just like, it's okay, it's fine. But he's mowing just a few yards away. And I'm looking at and this is not us. I'm sure. You can look at the entire cemetery from where I'm standing. I am the only reverb president and he looks at me, I look at him in a moment you're holding flowers, right? So you like I definitely love him and he just keeps snowing and he's on liquids or riding mowers. And so I'm like, Okay, well, surely this won't take very long. I would be wrong about Got that he continues to mow that area and around her and I swear he was going over the patches multiple times waiting for me. Oh my gosh, I have my flowers there. And I'm just thinking, so I'm trying to connect. Oh my gosh, I can't even one more would be a consumer is so loud I cannot hear. I'm having a sensory experience listening to this. So holding the flowers, I'm just thinking, and I just started laughing. So I'm like, of course, of course, they're of all days, the person and mowing right there. I mean, there's a huge place that he could go. And I'm thinking, could you just go mow other places right now? What do we make a deal? I just, I'll be here 15 minutes, you could come back like whatever. But he continues to mow. And so I'm standing there and I'm like, Okay, mom. I've got my flowers out. I'm like, okay, so I just thought, I'm going to try to make the best of this. And I'm just in this very loud sensory experience. Just, he's not leaving. So I put down the roses. And I'm like, saying the things I want to say sort of what I'm saying I'm kind of loud of the mower, as if she needs me to say the lounge. And I'm doing other things, and then I think you're yelling over the mower. I was okay, Mom, you know, I missed the great, classic. So I'm thinking okay, so I get all I'm done. I thought you know what I'm gonna do, I'm gonna take a rose, I'm gonna go put it on Rachel's grave, and then maybe he'll be gone. And I can have a moment, right? So I go on a journey. And I'm gone for a long time. And I'm still knowing I swear he was on this path. And this was not very long grass, over and over. And I thought it was like, roots who it is I felt like, you know, it just felt like maybe the people with those plots paid him extra or something. Maybe I'm not sure. So he goes on and on and on. And so by the time I get over there, you know, he was gone. But I had to be gone for quite a while. So I walked back over there. And then it just felt like, so the upstanding there. And I'm trying to connect to that place inside of myself of like, Oh, I feel some emotions coming up where she belongs. Right? We're spared that place inside of me where it's like, I can connect with her. And just slow down. Just slow down. No, I'm good. I'm good. I just I couldn't I couldn't. Um, but then I started laughing. I was like, but it's okay. It's okay. She would have loved this. I mean, you persevered for this moment. But here's the thing it Listen, there's for people out there who have family plots. I get it they're beautiful. And everyone gets to be together. But I will be honest with you. I had the the quietness and the spaciousness now to connect. And I was like, I don't know if it's a lawn mower. It's threw me off or it's the fact that I feel I feel pressure to talk to the other family members that are here in December I totally get this so are grandfather. two uncles are there too? No, one no. Just just uncle marks there. Oh, I don't think Hey, guys, so I felt okay, so then I'm like, standing there and I'm feeling this pressure. And I kind of tell her like, well, I guess it's just what I cannot understand your words. I guess it's not just gonna it's not gonna happen today. This Okay. Here's the flowers. I love you. I'll come back another time. I'll see you on my walk. But the same Ed looking. Just like thinking like, so I'd like love you, grandpa. Love you Uncle Mark, you know, and I'm like, kind of speaking over to the right to the other headstones. And I'm just feeling this pressure. And it had me thinking just about what I'm saying. But also just this whole idea of family plots and like, I wanted to have this moment with her and I'm just I'm just was thinking as I kind of wrapped it up like, I want you to rethink like kind of how I approached this whole thing and because I kind of liked the cemetery now I kind of liked the idea of being able to go out there for whatever reason. But I remember the last time I was there to feeling like when I was in the midst of all this blubbering and crying and just like really connecting in that 107 degree weather with her still feel like grandpa and Uncle Mark person over there waiting for me to acknowledge them. And, and listen, I know that sounds kind of strange, but like, I just needed it to between me and mom, you know, I'm saying you're like, privacy, please. That way to those other dead spirits, or like people, can we just like get a room? This is ridiculous. That's exactly that is exactly how I felt. Maybe you need to bring a tent. Make me like one of those ones. On the beach. We're like, it's kind of bottomless. And so you could just like, set it over the headstone and just kind of like being a little not kidding. This one. Those privacy desks you get in school when you have tickets? Yes. You people to close to Yeah, bring some folders. All issued like last time I didn't have a blanket to sit on it. It was super hot. And I wanted to be out there for a while. So I had to go. I had packed you know, I had a dress, I put a dress on the ground. I sat on it. Well, this time I had a chair in the car from Nora's soccer practice. But I was like, Do people just sit chairs on top of like the ground and like, over the person and like, chill, oh, this is where the cemetery. Etiquette is. We cannot have a whole episode about. I know, I just it's weird, because I have thoughts and things to say, but I'm like, I need to stop myself. Nobody needs to hear that. But yes, there's a whole thing around going to these resting places. And yes, they are in a cemetery. It adds this whole layer of weird No. And I told you last time it happened again, going to find Rachel and me feeling like I have to hop over like areas and I don't know. And I just there is a way in which I want to interact. I don't know how to because I haven't had a lot of practice, or modeling or I guess it can be my own thing. But I do kind of want to figure that out. And not today, obviously. But I wanted to share that with you. And I'm like can't do anything quote unquote, normal. I mean, your neuro divergence is Yeah, meaning. Like, a so complicated this being a person. Um, yeah, I was thinking earlier about while I woke up at 5am couldn't fall back to sleep was like having all kinds of memories pop up and reenactments and was like, Okay, I guess we're just gonna be awake. Didn't actually feel that distressing. So maybe there's like a little bit of the gift of time. But thinking about grief. And the, what came to mind was this idea of like, the grind culture. But I was thinking about, like, how the grind culture impacts grief. And especially for those of us who have more sensitive nervous systems who have like, maybe a deeper well of emotion, or access to a deeper well of emotion. You know, maybe people who are neurodivergent people with trauma, whatever, there's lots of different categories you could put in there, but just kind of reflecting on like, 18 years of missing her, and all the other losses I have experienced and how muddy they get because of the push to like, find a new normal, right? Like nothing's normal for so long. And then there's like a new normal, and I feel like 18 years in all of the sudden I feel like we're also finding another new normal, like a new one. With this part of the grief journey, which is like the, the long road I guess we're like on the long road now, right? Like, I mean, probably we've been for a little while, but I went to the cemetery last year for the first time. Maybe in 17 years. I don't, I don't know that I've ever been. And in fact, I wasn't sure if I was gonna go I was visiting Texas and I had the kids in the car. And anytime I would even drive on a highway that was even remotely near that area of town. I would get activated and start to cry. And so I've just been like major avoiding like no way I will come and done I'm not going any We're near there. And last summer I just kind of like what you described this morning. I just felt like my car going there like, okay, it's almost dinnertime, but we're gonna like make this stop after we went to the pool or something, it was really random. So I took the kids. And it there was like a sweet moment there especially because my younger one is so tender and is like kind of interested in cemeteries right now. And he like, hugged the headstone and gave it a kiss. And like he was like, super connected and sweet. But like, I couldn't actually engage in any of the process, because the two of them were there. And I was like, I didn't really think this through, because I felt like oh, maybe there is a sob here in me that I could let out. But then I can't do that my kids are really young. Totally would scare them. And so it was very anticlimactic. It was like, Okay, great. We did it. Let's go. We weren't there very long. And I really have zero desire to go back. Also, it's like kind of a trek to get there when revisiting but just thinking about this, like, this year, in particular, I've been feeling a lot like was it even real? Was she even here did that happen? And I think part of that is this long road part of the grieving journey and also like, this pressure to keep moving to keep going. And I think every year at this time, we all all the siblings, you know, we all notice in our bodies, this kind of like up pulling back away from the pushing, you know, kind of like you're putting your heel like a cartoon character, like you're putting your heels in the ground, and you're being pushed and like you're moving dirt because you're just like, No, I will not be forced to move forward. And I, I feel that most especially in this season of the year. But I just think about how much I felt that in the early years and how I allowed the culture and life and all of these things to kind of push me on. And I feel a little sad about that I feel a little sad about not savoring some of the early grief that was so like, potent and intense. And at the same time, I'm like, I was probably just like re traumatizing myself every year, engaging in the intensity of it. But there's something about the that intensity that makes them feel close and makes them feel like real, like, oh, the pain feels so sharp, and it just makes them feel real. And I kind of resent that we live in this fast paced world that like you can forget about people. That's so funny that you say so when I went to the cemetery two years ago, I was very much feeling the way you are and for our fellow Grievers. You guys know this, it just changes and shifts every the university birthday, like you never know, kind of how it's going to come in. And so she's going, Liz was going through kind of like was it real and I had that I was had been going through that. And when I went to the cemetery because I'd never been there before. And I was alone. And you know, I was I laid on the ground on top of the plot and I felt for the first time in a really long time that she was real. And I was like oh my god, you were real. You're in your real you are real this is your place and I needed that and it was so painful but like I needed that there's that bitter sweetness of remembering that it brought me that I think I was annoyed with the people at the cemetery today that guy or whatever student his job because I wanted to push away and slow down and get that same moment of like, I want to connect back into you I want to feel that you actually were as real as I felt the last time and I didn't get that and I I'm okay but like I that that feeling is really hard and and even though the other part when you are the years you are connecting and it feels visceral or more painful. You get the other part with it too. That is like balm to your soul. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, like I I know that I miss her on a cellular level and I think in the law last few years doing all this trauma work and somatic healing work. A lot has come up around death right around Daniel's death, this like, very first formative death in our family, our younger brother, and mom is such a prominent character in that story. And so in some ways, I've been like interacting with her in a new way. Processing what happened when I was little, you know, but without her here, so it's like a super trippy experience to feel like, I feel really connected to her. And I feel like a lot of healing has happened between us. And it happened like without her here, and then these Anniversaries are like, important days come up, and I will like, look at pictures or, you know, y'all will send pictures and it's like, oh, yeah, there she is. There's her smile. That's what she looked like. That's how she physically moved through the world. And it's like, this. It's kind of a confusing experience in my body. Because it's like a, it's like a knowing and a recognizing. And also searching. I totally relate to this. I feel like what you just said, it's like this. I always feel the messing. I always there's a thing in me that I always feel that kind of like, the world isn't the same. Like, I'm past like the met on a on a cognizant, conscious level of like, Oh, it's just like a feeling until I see a picture of her, especially if it's one I haven't seen, which is very rare. It's like, that's it. That's what that's what I'm missing. It's, it's you. And or that's that feeling that you don't get to connect with all the time. And it's like, it takes your breath away. Yeah. And, and one of the trippy things is that as we are all aging, I'm seeing her like in our bodies. I was with I don't know how I'm gonna get through this show. I was with our oldest brother Jason last weekend, and his family. And I'm just looking at him and looking at his features and looking for her. You know? His coloring is so similar to hers. And it feels so good to find her. I remember. I remember after she died, and I was in Boston. I remember being on the bus to work one morning, and there was this older woman and she had been on the bus. It was like we both went the same direction every morning to work. And so I had seen her a bunch of other times. And there was this one morning where I just I don't know, my gaze landed on her hands. And Sarah they were mom's hands. It was totally undid me. I had to call out from work. I was like, I could not stop staring at them. This was before smartphones so I couldn't creepily take photos suffer answers but it was like this like reaction to this visual, the quality of the skin there was just this something about the structure the bone structure, I just was like those look exactly like my mom's hands and and seeing some of that and grandma to when I saw her last summer. And I just savor that now I just am like, oh, I want to look more closely at each other I want to see the aging spots because that's the parts of her I remember, you know, I remember her her body aging more quickly than it should have because of cancer treatments. But um you know, I remember the quality of the skin on her face and her hands and that kind of stuff just like I remember because I remember being in the hospital with her laying there. And having this moment of I'm gonna remember this and I put my fingers over her cheeks I remember like she had like kind of big pores I remember like and then she had this like one little like mole on her cheek. I can tell you right now exactly. I can't explain it but I in my my body If I remember exactly how it felt, I remember how her hands felt that skin. So I know, I'm so grateful that I did that because I just had this like present moment of like, I want to remember this. And I can now do that. I also am thinking too, with what you're just saying, because you're going to basically see me I mean, I'm going to be mobbed. But I lately if I sit like crisscross applesauce, or in a four or whatever for too long, when I get up, I have that stop moment where I my hip is kind of tight. And I limped for a second on like, oh, dear Lord, because there was this, like, our mom had broken hip for like, this is, um, we're not going to get it but just an aside for like, a decade years. Yeah. And did not y'all she was walking with a broken hip. Okay, didn't know it was Yeah, so when she would stand up before she got that fixed, she would take this moment. And then she would limp for a second until she could get her kind of her bearing that is absolutely happening to me. And it's, I think, probably one of the reasons or it's at least one little tiny part of why I've struggled so much this year with the emotions this kind of enmeshed like feeling like I need to separate her from me a little bit. Probably some work I need to do there of like, this is not happening to me. This is like your hip is tight. And it that Yeah. Addicts sisters nodding your head, and had like, some emotions around that. And so yeah, I think I wasn't really going with that. I just wanted to share it, you know, just Well, I just think this like beautiful echo right of like, again, these like little glimpses of them having been real and having been here and that we can find these little reminders everywhere. And I think this is one of the kind of great things about being neurodivergent when it comes to grief and loss is that, like, our brains are already really good at like looking for all those little tiny connections and patterns. And we're so prone to that already that like even if it's not one, we might still find like some joy or solace in what could be a patent. You know, the fact that I recognize that woman's hands looking like mom's that's probably part of like, the way my brain is wired. And yeah, absolutely. And I just think I love that about the way my brain works. The emotional intensity, like the the access to really intense sensory experiences, like being able to remember like, you know, like me my memory how her skin feels. I can smell her perfume. Yeah, um, and someone was wearing it at Kroger the other day, I swear, like, I don't even know if they make that any more privilege, right? I have a bottle in my cabinet. That was her last bottle. There's a little bit less and I'm saving for something when you guys have an emergency and you need a spritz. Oh my god, please never do that. RPM was so nasty. I'm surprised it hasn't evaporated. Honestly, I had a scary it was weird. I was like, Oh my gosh, that's Manuel I'm so all that to say like this, but that was the emotional intensity of just being able to when you talked about earlier. You know, this, this push by the world to say it's time to move on or whatever. One place where I feel like, you know, our Nerd ever vergence might help us a little bit with accessing that is one our strong sense of injustice of like, Oh, hell no, you're not pushing me anywhere. I'm gonna scream and cry in the grocery store right now. And, you know, the, you know, that that kind of access to that butting up against that messaging, I do feel like there are places that we all were able to kind of carve out more time or more ways to be with it. At least I know the three of us girls, I don't know about the boys. But you know, I haven't talked to them about that. But I know like we've talked about some of that, because that's kind of in us to like, No, I'm not going to go with the mainstream. Like we're human. Of course we will. And yeah, I remember saying I remember somebody saying that thing about a new normal like you'll and I don't know if this was with mom or if this was before when my friend Rachel died. But I remember saying to people I don't want a new normal, like stop saying that. It sounds terrible. Like who wants a new normal? Nobody? Nobody unless you are like in deep deep suffering. So actually some people do. If your norm is like pain and suffering, then of course, you probably are longing and aching for a new normal. But at that point, yeah, I was not like, we didn't have a lot not to say to grieving people because that means we have heard it all. I wrote blog posts about it at different points years ago, I don't know where they are now. But yeah, I do think that there's more to explore around this, I will say surprisingly, that I have a couple of articles on my website about grieving and neurodivergent. And they are like some of the ones that are the best, I guess performing is what you would say, like people find those articles a lot. When I look at the, I don't even know what the words are when I look at performance or whatever. So I feel like there's something more to say about, you know, who you are, and how that impacts grief. And I know a lot of people have questions about I remember wondering, like, Is this making it worse? Like, is this making it harder? And I think in some ways it did. I think those same neurodivergent traits that helped me to savor some of those things also kept me in prolonged exposure to extreme intense emotions, that was not good for my nervous system. Um, absolutely. I think that's true. And I think too, like, when you have a loss early, you know, when Daniel died, you know, I am a connections maker, and, you know, we're some kids, you know, they may move through life in a different way. I already was, like, making connections, you know, way, way out there. And existentially you know, just like, What is life? What is happening? You know, there's this breach in the universe, and how do I reconcile that? No one to talk to about it, you know, those kinds of things. So I think that and like what you just said, then there's that other part of it, where it's the exposure, and then the emotional intensity around. I never want anyone to feel alone in this. So let's seek out every person in the universe who needs somebody, I worked so many blog articles. Yeah, I'm like, people need to talk about death because we clearly don't know how and don't want to, and so we should definitely do it. Absolutely. Agree. Okay, but no more today. I got to I got to go to bed. No, I'm not gonna go to bed. I kind of want to have more than like, I gotta get a piece of cake. Oh, my gosh, I was just thinking that. Yeah, that's because we need some sensory bliss for the cake. So I gotta figure out where I'm gonna go get a piece of cake. But I love you. Thanks for being vulnerable with me. And that kind of good mix of Yeah, I have no idea what just happened in this episode, and we're just gonna like, let it be. Let it be. Okay. Sounds good to me. All right. Talk to you later. Bye.