Perimenopause and menopause are making their way into online chatter, but that wasn't the case a few years ago when we went through The Big Transition. In this episode, we're sharing our perimenopause stories and how we discovered what was happening to us. Elizabeth went through menopause early at age 41 followed by Sarah a couple of years later in her late 40's. There is so much we wish we had known then, so this is our attempt to put it out into the world.
If you think this doesn't apply to you, please give a listen so you can support someone you will surely know who will experience menopause.
Sleepy Sisters podcast is hosted by Elizabeth Brink and Sarah Durham. This show is unedited and often unprepared for, so we hope you enjoy our resistance to perfection!
www.thrivingsistercoaching.com
www.kattywhompous.com
Perimenopause and menopause are making their way into online chatter, but that wasn't the case a few years ago when we went through The Big Transition. In this episode, we're sharing our perimenopause stories and how we discovered what was happening to us. Elizabeth went through menopause early at age 41 followed by Sarah a couple of years later in her late 40's. There is so much we wish we had known then, so this is our attempt to put it out into the world.
If you think this doesn't apply to you, please give a listen so you can support someone you will surely know who will experience menopause.
Sleepy Sisters podcast is hosted by Elizabeth Brink and Sarah Durham. This show is unedited and often unprepared for, so we hope you enjoy our resistance to perfection!
www.thrivingsistercoaching.com
www.kattywhompous.com
Well hello, the sleepy sisters are back. This is Elizabeth Brink Zerah Durham. And if you are not someone who has the potential to experience menopause, we want you to still stay with us here because you may know someone, chances are you know someone. And hopefully what we share will be useful to you and how you care for those around you, if not for you, personally. Okay, so we we want to talk about menopause, perimenopause, the transition, as it's known, sometimes the great transition. And we want to talk about it in this episode, and then we want to come back and talk about it again, in another episode. So we'll see how far we get today. But we thought we would start with sharing a little bit of our personal stories around menopause, and see where that takes us. So I guess we prepped a little bit and that we had a 42nd conversation. Story, for the most part, we know our own story, the transition thing, the first thing I thought of was like when people refer to like, the big transition as either menopause or death Okay, so I'll go first with my story since I went first, I feel like you've earned it. We're gonna do a little reverse order here. So this is Elizabeth, if you're not familiar with my voice, but I just had a birthday, I turned 45. And I went through menopause at 41, which is genetic in our family. And it's also kind of a lottery, a genetic lottery. So I won something for once. Not really. So in 2020, I was like the rest of the world, freaking out about a lot of things. And also had two really young kids that are very close in age, and felt like something is not right with me. And I was having a lot of intrusive thoughts, which are thoughts that pop up that are, you know, the content of them is typically triggering, it's dark, it's sometimes very out of character or scary. And for me, my intrusive thoughts, the theme tends to be around people I love getting really hurt or dying, which is no surprise because I've my early life trauma. But at the time, that wasn't really that much on my radar. So I, I just had a lot of fear around my kids getting hurt, my partner getting hurt, and a lot of really graphic thoughts popping in and out of my head about my own my own death, too. And I at one point said to Sarah, in a group text with our sister, Rebecca, I think, like, I'm having a lot of intrusive thoughts. And I we've said this a lot before, but at this one point, I said, like I like I'm reading bedtime stories to the kids and Cory left to go get he and I some ice cream for after they go to bed. And I'm looking at the clock to know what time it is so that I can tell the police how long he's been gone from the house when I have to call 911. And she Sarah was like, oh, okay, um, that that's a little more than what I meant when I said intrusive thoughts are normal. I was like, Wait, why? Because I've been having intrusive thoughts for a long time. So I was like, all this time, I thought you understood what I was saying. And you were telling me it was it was okay. Everybody has these dark thoughts, which they do. intrusive thoughts are normal. But the degree and the amount of them I was having had been so much more intense than ever in my life. And so, I went to a psychiatrist. I said, I think I have a major mood disorder. Something's going on. I don't know if it's OCD. I don't know what it is. I'm fixated on people's safety. And and so I started some medication for that. And at the same time, I, Sarah, your key your key player in this whole story earlier that year, in 2020 I had Corey and I had decided the fall Before that, we were going to maybe try for a third kid. And then the pandemic hit. And we were like, Oh, this is a bad idea. So we but I had I had had an IUD and I had it taken out. So we were like back to the like child proofing things, you know what baby proofing my uterus, and I, but I hadn't had a cycle. And so this was also happening in 2020. My last cycle was in March or May of 2020. I can never remember which was one of the M months. And, and I waited until that fall. And probably around the same time as the intrusive thoughts thing. I was just checking other things with Sarah. And I was like, I have not had a period in. I think at that point had been five or six months, I didn't even know I was like, I don't even know the last time and she said what my doctor says after three months, you gotta call, but you can't just be out there not having a cycle. And so at the same time, I'm seeing the psychiatrist, I get this medication, anti depressant, anti anxiety medication. And, and I've also liked going to my gynecologist and saying, Okay, I think something might be up with my cycle. So we do some testing, we try to get my cycle to start and we can't there's all these fun things like a progesterone challenge didn't work. And I start suspecting Oh, I bet I bet I'm I'm this is it, because I had turned 41 in March. And I knew that our grandmother had gone through menopause at 41. I don't know how I knew that. I don't know where I got that information. But it had just been kind of seared into my brain. And so in my mind, I immediately was like, Oh, I bet this. That's what this is. So after doing some blood work and progesterone challenge, my gynecologist agreed that I was going through the menopause transition. And that, you know, typically they say, you're not, you haven't gone through menopause until you've had a year without a period. But because of our family factors, and because of my blood work and all of these things. She just was kind of like, Yeah, that's probably what's happening. So she recommended hormone therapy. And I was just like, I don't know about that. I don't know. And then I, the following January, talked to my psychiatrist again. And mentioned Oh, yeah, by the way, I forgot to tell you, I, I am going through menopause like I am. And he was amazing. And like knew enough about hormones and the impact of them to say, if you're a candidate for hormone therapy, I really think you should try it. Because there's a lot we can do with antidepressants and other medications. But if hormones are a factor, they play a huge role in how you feel and and so I was like, oh, okay, I guess I will try them. And what I want to say about menopause, for me was that a lot of the experience for me, because I went through so young, which they call premature menopause. Was in hindsight, like, I didn't know what was going on. I knew that, like, I was really anxious. But we were in the midst of like, the beginning of a pandemic, you know, something we had never experienced. I was terrified all the time. And I didn't know. I didn't know what was just like my trauma and my health anxiety, and what was actually something else going on in my body that was causing a lot of these things. So it's a lot of like in hindsight. So before when we were trying to have kids, I had three miscarriages before we had our two kids, which now I see that and I think, Oh, well, I was pre menopausal. And I didn't know it in my late 30s. And I see the overwhelm and the Gosh, just the roller coaster I was on in the very beginning of parenthood. And I just I have so much compassion for that version of me because I now know in hindsight, perimenopause is really destabilizing. And again, I was postpartum I was pregnant. I was breastfeeding at different points I so it just was so many things that it wasn't really until in hindsight that I was able to see like, oh, oh, this is what was going on and like you Yes, all of those other things too. But this component, when I was able to get a little bit of stabilization around my hormones, that's when I realized, like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, why aren't people talking about this? And, and also, some people are talking about it, but they're not talking about it until they're like in their 60s. And they're way past it. And so I didn't have access to that information when I was going through it. Nowadays, I think there are a lot more people talking about it currently. But even just four years ago, that really wasn't the case. And there's a lot about COVID, and how it pushed us to the online spaces. That actually was beneficial for me in that way. But I would just say like, when people talk about how they're feeling when they're in their late 30s, or into their 40s I am vigilant about asking questions about their cycle, because it plays such a big role in a lot of things, not just what we typically have heard of menopause is about night sweats and mood swings and career changes are what it's like, it's all boy answers. Oh, sports car. Um, it's also about wanting to like holed up in a room alone away from people wanting to be left alone, wanting to be being really tired. Like the fatigue and the mental. The cognitive fog, the brain fog seat, like, here it is right here. Right now in this moment. It's this like, cough cacophony of things that are only in hindsight to me more apparent and so for me, like what I would say, in hindsight, my biggest struggles were like symptoms, if you want to call them that were feeling really disconnected from my family, like my very young children and my partner, and not really understanding why I just wanted a lot of alone time. And, and I didn't feel bad about that. I felt really detached. And, and it didn't feel like depression. I have had depression before it felt different. It felt like I was detached. But I was like reading and studying and listening to things and learning about coaching and all this stuff that it felt like really invigorating. But it also felt kind of wrong, because I had young kids and this young family and and so that was one of my primary signs. I had a couple of hot flashes, which hot flashes for me felt like motion sickness. One time I threw up from one of them, but like I just I felt like suddenly a little warm, but like queasy, really queasy. And people I asked like two hot flashes make you queasy. Like no one can answer me. They were like what, I don't know, maybe you maybe you ate something. I'm like, Oh, maybe I ate something. No, y'all. Hot flashes can make you nauseated, they make you feel sick to your stomach. And but I only had a couple of those. I had some night sweats. And I took pregnancy tests because I was in my early 40s. And I was like, What is going on? Am I pregnant? That was the only frame of reference I had for some of these symptoms. And then obviously, I had really heightened anxiety. So much so that I went and sought out help for which I'm so glad I did. Because that made a huge improvement on my life seeking the the support of that psychiatrist. And then I also in hindsight now can say I really one of my primary symptoms was also related to like acid reflux and heartburn. And it was something that I had never struggled with ever before. And now it's like this chronic issue for me, if I get stressed, I have issues with acid reflux. And again, I just thought, Oh, this is this new thing weird. But now four years later, I'm like, Oh, this is related to menopause. It has to be because that's when it changed. So there's like all these like, things physically in my body that only in hindsight, was I able to zoom out for myself because no one could do it for me or it would there were no providers that did this with me and for me to zoom out and be like these things are not disconnected from each other. There's a common thread here. And, and then that that enabled me to figure out you know how to move forward with it. Which I can share more about next time we talk too but um, yeah, I would just say for me, I don't think perimenopause was that different for me than it is for a lot of pee. Pull in that it was so destabilizing, I think what was unique for me was how young I was and the fact that I was pregnant and postpartum through a lot of it. And, and that none of my peers were experiencing this. So there were a lot of other things that you could have pointed to it and without even considering my hormones, and and the world was, you know, on fire. And so there were just so many other factors that it was easy to get lost in a lot of rabbit trails, unfortunately, because it took a lot of time to get the real picture together. I would say the hardest part for me has been, I'm gonna get a little emotional. Just feeling like cheated a little bit out of this stage of life. Like the one thing about perimenopause is that you still have a cycle. So you do still have some bursts of, of energy around your cycle, it's less predictable. And it might be it might be different, it might be not as energized or more energy, like it's varied, but you still have this like somewhat reliable, energetic cycle that like can help you feel into like your your lifeforce energy and, and not having that in my 40s, while my kids are young, is it's really messing with my head, and I am coming to a different relationship with it. But I think generally speaking, last year, I spent a lot of time grieving and just feeling like, I am older than I should be. And it's not fair. And my body is tired, more than it should be. And that's not fair. And lots of other people with other things going on in their lives experience this kind of disabled feeling. But I think there was a lot for me around, gosh, this whole journey into parenthood, and of this last really like seven years or so. Eight years, I guess, good grace. It just, yeah, it's like, No wonder I'm exhausted. And I wish there had been, I really wished that like you or Becca had already gone through it. Or, you know, we're in the midst of it too, because it was really lonely. And and there was just so much mystery around it. And I didn't know how to put to words, how it felt to be in my body in this different way. And it felt bad a lot. And, and, and I I didn't know how to find like that kind of support from y'all because I couldn't really describe what I was feeling. It was just I mean, I think the best word for it now is probably inertia. There was just so much inertia, there still is but there was so much of it in those first couple of years. And it was really confusing for me. Yeah, so that's kind of that's a little bit of like the overview, I guess, of how it happened to me. What about you? I don't even think I've heard you really tell your story. I was also just thinking to like, you know, our mom, you know, she got leukemia at 41. And she was diagnosed with menopause at 40. And just thinking back, like, we had always wondered like, which came first like did then leukemia force her body into menopause early, or was that menopause? Just a separate thing. And when you went through menopause so early, I thought, oh, that confirms like, I didn't even know about grandma. At the time. I was just like, well, you're saying this now. And I'm like, I didn't know mom had a menopause diagnosis. I knew there was like a question of like, is she in menopause? Or is she sick? No, they put her on prempro because she was so young. And now you know, looking back I think what you're talking about feeling detached or she was despondent. She was detached from us. I have a lot I have a lot of hard story around that time of going through some stuff personally and like she was unavailable. I remember being very angry with her. And now having gone through a pause, and then also hearing you I'm just thinking about, like, wow, I just she just did not have any time. Have a sport. And then of course, she got sick. About six months later, we found out she was sick about six months later. And yeah, I just think I mean, it was the demise of our parents marriage, or going her transition, looking back because I was a little older. I have no doubts. And I can totally understand why if you don't have enough systems in place, you know, too, and you don't know what's happening. It's just like, I'm just, I guess I'm just a different person. Now. I actually never did care about anything. And now I'm just like, telling you, I don't care because I don't want this life. See you later. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, you hear all the time about people going, are women going through the transition and, you know, having, you know, ideation and really, you know, horrible horrible, like, crippling depression, anxiety and things like that and just feeling out of body. You know, I mean, my psychiatrists said that, like, during those hormonal events like perimenopause, postpartum and puberty, that there have been studies that you're eight times more likely to have suicidal ideation and severe depression eight times. Yeah, that's big. Well, and that's why everyone's slapping on antidepressants. And it's like, this is why more education needs to be out there more awareness, because in those that are passionate about that, because we we see it, we've lived it, we have clients, middle age, and friends that, you know, it's like, we're happy to have the conversation. But so as far as I go, I mean, listen, I've always had terrible PMS, you know, I had her pregnancies postpartum, all that stuff. When I look back. So I in my late 30s, went to my OB Gen, because I had a change in my cycle that was so significant, that it was almost debilitating. I was having a lot of bleeding and my periods were kind of erratic and things like that. And I went to my surgeon and I said, Hey, listen, I think I'm in perimenopause. Okay, so I have a little bit of a medical background was with Gnosis and super in tune with my cycles because they were so intrusive, I guess, in like, my relationships and, and all that other stuff. Because there was a lot of gripping on every month or every time I my cycle came of like, how am I going to show up and also their stuff? So I went to her and I said, I think I might be perimenopausal. And she's like, No, you're too young. How old? Were you? I was like, probably 3738. It was like, right before I had Sam. And I studied, I think I think I'm starting to change and of course was scoffed at and listen to this doctor was a little problematic, anyway. But um, but I'll say I was just it was kind of poo pooed away. And I just was like, okay, and her explanation was what people's you know, you know, women's cycles, they just change every so many years. That was the progress toward menopause. Yeah, that part was left out. So I think the Inkling was like, I knew my body. I knew and had enough information where I was like, This is what I think is happening, and was just completely shut down. And I tell that part because it's important because it happens still now, a lot, a lot and 15 minute conversations with clients going no, that's not it. You're too young. And we're going to talk about like the ins and outs of that on another like podcast, but like, I wanted to say that so I then had two more babies. You know, I mean, my last baby was, was what? 42. So, again, very confusing, because in my mind, we're not really educated around. What does that really look like for perimenopause, you kind of hear the side thing like, oh, you can get pregnant, but then, I mean, I had no problems getting pregnant. And you have you have no history of miscarriage, no history of miscarriage. I, you know, decided to have my third kid, we tried, we got pregnant, and we had a baby nine months later. And so I was like, well, everything must still be completely the way it should be. This is just me something is is going on with me because I was still struggling. But at this point, even though I had an inkling, I had two babies and you postpartum and all this other stuff. So just kind of, you know, put a pin in it and just put it to the side. And then for me, I spent much of my 40s just completely untethered. I mean, really. And so it started To kind of snowball, and I would say, you know, 2022 Yeah, I would say 2020. You know, I started having a lot more anxiety. Of course, same with Elizabeth. I mean, you know, we have history pandemic, no small thing. But I was going into the eye doctor, and my blood pressure was like, 175 over 90. And listen, I was still running all the time. Like, there was no reason for my blood pressure to be even if it was high from stress, it had never been that high before. And so okay, that's weird. You know, that's where and then just started having the same type of things where it's like the impending doom. Like, when I say impending doom, I mean, I'm like, at night laying in my bed, trying to catch my breath, thinking about my death, the state of the world, my, my kids, all of the things. And it's not a like, Oh, that's really concerning, or even, I'm only worried about that. It's like, impending doom is like someone is lurking around the corner, and they're going to snuff you out at any moment. I mean, that is really, it's so terrifying. And that eventually led to panic attacks. I had anxiety all the time. I couldn't string sentences together. I would put objects in the refrigerator, like non food objects. I was put yet the pantry I was misplacing items. I thought I was going through early dementia. I thought this is it. This is the end of my brain. My ADHD meds weren't working very well. And I just had a mild prolapse, my bladder, like, oh, yeah, I had a prolapse too. That's right. I've run and I mean, it was like, my eyes will just not even go to the bathroom because I'm gonna pee my pants, probably at some point during this run. But the memory I'd have like, the easily overall my window of tolerance, like nervous system was like, it was like paper thin. I was either like, super pissed off, everybody was like, against me. Or then I was like, holed up in my room. Like you were saying, just everything just felt so overwhelming. And my cholesterol was going up. I mean, these are like, without changes, like things that like, nothing had changed in like, my exercise routine, like what I was eating, and like these physical changes, I start, you know, at the wild, get my physical. And then I think it was like, I think I was was 2021. I did a couple progesterone challenges. The first one at the beginning of the year, worked and I got a period. And I was like, Okay, well said again, I just must be losing my mind. You know, I'm not realizing like, really like, because I had been told that I was too young. In my mind. It was just kind of like, and you are how old then? And 2021 47 or something like that. Yeah. Or seven? Yeah. Or yeah, first seven. So I went in and you know, my origins like, well, you could be starting the process or whatever, but we're gonna like No, no, no help was talked about. It was more about just gathering information. So that was early in the year started my period, and then didn't get another one. So did another challenge. This time, it didn't happen. And they did a test which are, we'll talk about that in another episode. But I was like, Oh, congratulations. It's not a baby. It's a menopause. Yeah. And so I was like, okay, and then although I did feel like that when you finally got that, I was like, Oh, finally somebody's over here with me. Yeah, I know. I know. And I was really really glad that like, even though I wasn't happy that you went through it, it was it was a very easy I don't know just I didn't have to go through the permission giving up so that you had to go through and so many other women have to go through in order to get the support I need. It was like this. Someone had just done this I trust that had done their due diligence at the same time. I was researching things I was looking things up. I'm trying to figure out I had gone back to therapy the year before because my I was my anxiety was so high. I ended up retiring from teaching. So I mean, I had stressors, but everything I've always done to manage my anxiety I have it or my ADHD or anything, just was no longer working. Nothing that I had done several years prior was working like, I gained weight. I mean, they did change the running part. I mean, there's just it's just things where it's like what is happening to my body right now. Like, nothing has changed. I haven't done anything different. And yet all of these different symptoms were just coming in just exponentially stronger. And then I think finally, what happened really to end up getting on HRT which was very quickly after, but like that, it was like a few months of a perfect storm of anxiety, insomnia person. I mean, I wasn't sleeping at all, was the night sweats. I mean, I would go to bed. And I would wake up in the middle of the night soaked from head to toe, like my clothes would look like I went and took a shower in my clothes. What can people say talk about night sweats, because that can happen with other and or I had maybe a few hot flashes. You know, to me, it feels like what I imagined, like if a snake was squeezing you, and it kind of just goes hot all the way up. And then it just kind of have a snake is creeping you as rally. queasy feeling all the way up hot, and then all of a sudden, you're sweating. Okay, and then it goes away. But the nice was the reason why I think they woke me up was once they like, sweated whatever that was, I was freezing because I still put the fan on. And so it was like, I would go to bed hot kick and stuff off and wake up. I was freezing because I was soaking wet. And that I guess gave my doctor like even more like, Yeah, we should probably start you on something or whatever. Even though I had already kind of initiated like, yes. Because I'm really ready to not feel like whatever I'm feeling. So I feel like for me, it was more like I knew myself. And I knew enough medically, I had that context, a little bit of experience. And that, that I was like, Yeah, I'm going to advocate and say and I was totally dismissed, and then entered into like, a decade of real vulnerability of new marriage to more kids and babies at an older age and that being tired and I was teaching and so I absolutely got lost in the mix. And there was no buddy even though I am someone who gets my yearly exam gets my yearly physical. That was saying to me at all, like, let's see what all we can consider is what do you want to get into depressant? That was like that was the option my interests like, well, let's do that. Let's let's put you on a flexors. And by that I said, I don't feel like that's the right fit for me. I don't feel like I want to get on I don't. Because like you I can't explain it now because I don't remember exactly. But I just remember feeling like that's not it. And so I said no. Well just think about whatever. And I also see a psychiatrist regularly. He didn't know anything about menopause or perimenopause, because yeah, he just as soon you know, subscribed me like Klonopin or something to go to sleep. So I just, you know, it's just one of those things. And these are people who are, you know, in the medical field. And so there's the hindsight of like, just how many symptoms I had, and just now and only because I've we've gotten support, and I've gotten support, and they went away, and I'm like, okay, I'm good. That was it. That was it. And you also have experienced depression. You have Yes, it's like I did, I did take the antidepressant. And it was really helpful. And I think I had but it was my first time using an SSRI and and it was really helpful and I am really glad I took it I wonder if I hadn't if I had already had an experience with it previously, if I would have had an instinct like that about like, Oh, I'm not sure that's gonna quite hit it yet because I had just been on one between the last two kids because I've postpartum so badly that I knew exactly like what it felt like to be that kind of disconnected. i It was it was really hard to describe but I yeah, I feel like there's always a benefit of like, even knowing sometimes, if you don't have like the I don't know the strength, the courage or the access to keep going to somebody else and do like, I need you to believe me. Oh my gosh, just the brainpower to like, find a somebody else and make an appointment and go to what everyone thinks every doctor, you know. So yeah, it's, it's easy to get lost. And let's face it, no one's looking around at middle aged women like, what can we do for you? Like, we see you, you know, how can we support you? We have to kind of even for ourselves, you know, like, so I think. And you had just gone through it as well. And I think that honestly, that was helpful. I think the progesterone challenge, I'm sure you were talking to at the time, but honestly, I was so mentally garbled up there. Like when I say I would, I would just lose words. I mean, I still will lose a word or lose my train of thought every now and then. But it was, like I said, I I'm not exactly when I say when I say I thought I was I'm going to be someone who goes through dementia really? I am. So yeah, and it's really disconcerting. So I'm sure you were probably talking to me, and I kind of remember that I don't remember, it just feels like kind of a blur? Well, yeah, and I didn't really know a lot at that point, like I did, at some point, learn some things about how neurodivergent people tend to experience hormonal fluctuations more intensely. And that, and I learned a lot about like, the menstrual cycle and how the different hormones affect cognitive functioning. And so why you feel a certain way at certain points in your cycle. And that was really helpful for me to understand a little late because I didn't really how to cycle any point. But But I was talking about a lot with clients I was talking about, I think I did a couple of different podcasts. I mean, I was talking about it and thinking a lot about the role of hormones in, you know, how we feel and how we function. And I remember I remember saying to you like you're perimenopausal like, this is ridiculous. You're pre menopausal. Like, just take my word for it. You don't need a medical professional. But I think it was also just a really overwhelming time in history. And so I think, like, I also was like building a business and you were writing your memoir, and you were leaving the teaching field and recovering from likely burnout. And there were just so many other factors at the same time. And I think that is one of the big flags around perimenopause and menopause is that it's a time in your life when lots of other things are hitting the fan. Yeah. And and so I feel like most people could probably have a story like that like, but there were all these other mitigating factors that seemed very plausible for why I was having such a crescendo of all of these things. And it's like, yes, but in hindsight, you can really see, like, yeah, and all of those are overwhelming or scary or hard or painful. And also this piece of it, of not being able to cope in your typical ways, and having your body under so much stress. Someone recently said, I don't I wish I knew where I saw this. But someone said that the menopause transition in and of itself is a trauma, it's a trauma in the potty. And I was like, Yes, I agree. And it doesn't necessarily mean that it has to like land that way and be stored there and that you'll have PTSD from it. But it is this huge shift in how your body functions and how it operates. And it's not all bad. But a lot of it is confusing, and a lot of it is unwelcome in the stage of life that it happens in. And as we as human beings start living longer, you know, your 40s your 50s There's just a lot of vitality left in those decades. And, and so even in your 60s, like there's just still so much vitality, that I think this is one of those things that like challenges your understanding of your own vitality, and it does it in a time in your life. When you're likely mid career or even in the advanced parts of your career. Maybe you're in higher levels of leadership, or you have like more complex responsibilities. For a lot of people. You've got kids who are pubescent are pre pubescent. That hasn't been the case for us because of the timing of parenthood and one that was older but yeah, right but wasn't pubescent. When you're going through this Oh, that's true. That's true. And so you get that like kind of double puberty of like, oh, you're going through all of this. And so is your your kid? I think awesome. Oh, sorry. Go ahead. No, you go. I was just thinking also too is one thing that I've learned is that there's support for perimenopause, two, I will say when I got that call, surprised, your Hello, I actually wasn't I was still Perry, I still had two more periods after that. So the thing about it is like, you know, the diagnostics around all of that is really so boils down to the person's experience and what they name and there is still, and I did start my support at that point. And I was still technically Peri menopausal, which opened up a whole other research for me, which we'll talk about next podcast. But that this isn't just about gripping on, you know, and that's why we wanted to talk about it is that we know that everyone's going to experience it this way. We just don't how we experienced it. And if we can get anyone to get curious about is this something that may be contributing to like some of the things that are going on my life, then we want you to do your own digging your own research and all that other stuff. But just to know to that, like, there are people out there who have like cultivated ways to support that are trained in this. And you know, they're not selling some like random supplement or whatever. It's like there are things out there that you can be in that you don't have to wait, because I think for me, I thought still had that messaging all the way up to the end, that I had to be menopausal, to get the support that I wanted to get my hormones back where they needed to be. And now, we have discovered that that's actually not the case. So it's not like oh, yeah, yeah, I'm a parent. Thanks, Sara. And I know that I am and this sucks, and thanks for nothing, like thanks for the awareness. It's like, no, it's like, if you are sensing changes, if your cycle is changing, then start talking to your providers. And if your providers aren't open to those conversations, find new providers now, before you're further along down this path. So you have really collaborative and supportive providers who can help you make those decisions along the way, when and if those are possible for you. Okay, we're gonna talk more about that next time and maybe some of the like, great things about being postmenopausal, because like, there are a few things that I'm like, Okay, I'm not sad about that. But we're, yeah, we're at time, so we got it. Yeah, we gotta go. We gotta go to bed. But thanks for starting this conversation. And I'm so happy to have it kind of in one place because people ask and I'm like, it's a lot. So now they can just listen. Yeah, and for our kids and for Yeah, I'm just happy to have it documented in this way. Okay, so I'll talk to you later then. Love you, buddy. Bye bye.