Warwick Thornton, film director

"I splash around fish sauce willy-nilly, like cologne" - Warwick Thornton 

In this episode of Three Food Memories, you'll meet film director Warwick Thornton.  You'll know him for his magnificent and heart-wrenching storytelling in movies such as Samson & Delilah, The New Boy, and his latest film Wolfram. 

What you may not know is that he is an undeniable, dinky-di foodie. So much so that he chose not to share food memories in advance of his chat with Savva, but instead invited Savva into a conversation led by instinct, feeling, and an intense hatred for fruit in savoury food...with the exception of one particular snack. What snack? You'll have to listen in to find out.  

On the menu: ethnic culinary inspiration at IGAs, discovering Asian cuisine after Cyclone Tracy, and a three year journey to an epiphany about chocolate! 

To find out more about the project and Savva - head to threefoodmemories.com
Insta - @savvasavas @threefoodmemories

Email us at threefoodmemories@plated.com.au, we'd love to hear from you! 

TFM is produced and edited by Lauren McWhirter with original music by Russell Torrance. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

We acknowledge the traditional custodians of the ground we stand on, and I thank them for allowing Papa to tell stories along these glorious lands we share.

SPEAKER_00 0:22

My guest on this episode of Three Food Memories is from the beating red heart of Central Australia. An internationally recognized cinematographer and filmmaker, he's a visual storyteller and knows exactly what to reveal and when to hold it back. But most importantly, he loves food. So much so that in true creative form, he's chosen not to share his food memories in advance. Instead, he's inviting me into a conversation led by instinct, appetite, and feeling. Warwick Thornton, welcome to this very special edition of Choose Your Own Adventure, Three Food Memories.

SPEAKER_03 0:59

Choose Your Own Adventure and Mystery, because I haven't told you what I've been thinking. Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_00 1:04

My pleasure. Warwick, before you take me on your food discovery, your latest film, Wolfram, has just hit the cinemas around Australia. Congratulations. Thank you. In an interview, you spoke about Wolfram next to your film Sweet Country. You said that Sweet Country was a tough film. Tough to make and tough to watch.

SPEAKER_03 1:24

Tough to watch more than make, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:25

Yeah. But Wolfram has a bit more of a redemption and keeps you connected to its story. Yeah. When I watched the very, very first bit of Wolfram, I I was I had to stop and pause and run into my children's bedroom while they were sleeping.

SPEAKER_03 1:41

Sorry, I did that for you.

SPEAKER_00 1:43

To see that they were safe and sound. Um I never knew about the story, and I think a lot of Australians don't know about the story about sending little kids down the mines with explosives.

SPEAKER_03 1:55

That's my purpose in life is to to tell people these stories about Australia that we actually haven't heard. You know, and making films from my people, Indigenous people's perspective, rather than films being made about us, us making films about us. You know what I mean? Us telling our part of the story. So, you know, there's no there's no harm in not knowing because you there's nothing to tell you about what happened in Central Australia in the 1930s. So it's just good that you've seen it and people do see it and they learn a little bit more about Australia and our history.

SPEAKER_00 2:30

This one feels this story, Wolfham feels very close to the bone. Where did the idea of the film come from?

SPEAKER_03 2:36

Well, uh the writer David Traner, he was the original, he wrote Sweet Country as well with another man called Stephen McGregor, both indigenous writers. And this film has um, you know, it's collectively my great-great-grandparents and his David Traner's great-great-great-grandparents were abducted and taken to this place called Hatchers Creek to work down these mines. And so, you know, it it is an incredibly personal story in that way.

SPEAKER_00 3:02

In an interview I saw that you did about Wolfram, you said that these stories are not just connected to Australia, they're universal stories, stories of colonialism.

SPEAKER_03 3:11

Yeah, absolutely. You know, and the Empire, especially the British Empire for us, but there's other you know, the French and the Spanish did the same things around the world. So there is a collective piece of you know, that we all connect to in this this story. You know, I always see Sweet Country is such a brutal film and it's it's quite poisonous. And that's why I find it really hard to watch that film, even though it made it.

SPEAKER_00 3:40

Did you make it with that intention?

SPEAKER_03 3:42

Yeah, because it's a true story, so it had to be that way. You can't when you tell when you're telling the truth to a a country about what really did happen, you can't disneyise it. You can't disnise the end, a happy ending. So it doesn't have an happy happy ending. It's quite brutal. Intentionally it had to be that way because it's a true story. Now that that film is quite poisonous, but I find Wolfram to be almost like the cure for that poison because they bookend each other and they work really, really well. You know what I mean? So it's like it's a I don't know, something that's incredibly bitter, and then you add some sugar to it or something, and that's a second film, and then they they blend, they they work with each other much better.

SPEAKER_00 4:23

Aaron Ross Powell So these stories have been written out of his Australian history, they're not taught in schools.

SPEAKER_03 4:28

No, it's it's based on an oral history.

SPEAKER_00 4:30

And so you say that part of your work is making sure that these stories are told and they're stolen correctly. What sort of is there a heaviness or what's describe the responsibility of making sure that these stories are told.

SPEAKER_03 4:44

Well it's the truth. You know, you you want to get out what actually really happened. You know, the the The Conqueror writes has the pen and writes what they saw and the the way that they they won, you know what I mean? But there's another point of view, it's the people who lost. And they have a story as well. But I'm writing that story about the people who lost, not the people who won.

SPEAKER_00 5:06

So let's bring food into this. Now, food for you is an outlet. Does food create moments away from these realities that give you the opportunity to be you? Yeah. To be singular and happy, as you once said.

SPEAKER_03 5:19

Yeah. And you know, I I am an incredible uh a big foodie. I um I have a lot of trouble going to restaurants because um you're paying for food that's actually generally not very good. So, you know what I mean? And it's sort of like, why are you a chef? You know what I mean? Out of the freezer and into the fryer is not, you know, and charging way too much. You know, I'd it anyway, I'd sort of I have a I'd rather cook than go to a restaurant.

SPEAKER_00 5:48

What does cooking give you?

SPEAKER_03 5:49

It gives me um what's a f it's it's about my mental illness, I think. I well, let's start with I I spend 90% of my life away from home. And so I've got two choices. I either can when I I don't stay in hotels, I stay in apartments, so I have a kitchenette. And and this could be a tiny little town like Cooper Pete, or it could be Sydney, you know what I mean? And I can go out and eat, and I'm sure, you know, there are amazing chefs in in around around both of those places. But it's more there's more dodgy ones than there are good ones, and generally the good ones are damn expensive. So I'm always away from home. And I generally, this is really interesting, I've worked out that, you know, generally whoever an IGA, you know, it's because they're family-owned businesses, you you can work out if the IGA is owned by a Greek family or a Vietnamese family or a Chinese family or an Italian family or a Polish family, because the I the you know the the wet the the sort of there's an aisle of their their favourite stuff.

SPEAKER_00 6:59

And you can hunt you can smell that out straight away.

SPEAKER_03 7:01

You can smell that out straight away, and then suddenly, you know what I mean? Like um, you know, if it's a Greek family, there's Nostraini, there's all this sort of amazing oregano, you know what I mean? And you go, okay, this is a Greek family who owns this place, and then for that week or two you're shooting in that town, you will start cooking Greek. You know what I mean? And the produce, you know, they've got all the right things. You know, you can get soy sauce and two-minute noodles and whatever, but there's a massive uh, you know, uh or if it's Indian, you know what I mean, you've got you you'll see that okay, there's a lot of ghee, the herbs are uh not those little plastic, you know, little things of serious herbs and you know what I mean, the chilies and and I love that. You know what I mean? So I work incredibly hard. I get up before dawn, I have to go to set, and then by generally the end of the the last scene I'm shooting that day, I'm actually planning what I'm cooking tonight.

SPEAKER_00 7:51

Have you gone to the I I IAG first? The IGA. IGA?

SPEAKER_03 7:55

Well, it depends. It depends if they open when I finish, or or you know, I've you know, uh the first AD gives me a schedule. I have a schedule of the week and I go, okay, I'm gonna miss it. I'm gonna miss it every night because it's gonna close before we finish shooting, so I'll buy in the morning, you know what I mean, and start planning. Well, and so the last scene I'm always planning what I'm cooking for for that night. And I do it, I want to cook because it changes the subject. A bottle of wine and start chopping. I stop thinking about the film, the characters, you know, you're in a you're in a you're in a very fragile place every every afternoon when you finish shooting because you're going, Oh, I forgot to do that in a scene, or uh I think I really fucked up that scene, you know what I mean? I didn't you know I didn't put more emphasis on a certain character, all that sort of stuff is happening. And you need to get rid of that or you won't sleep. So food is incredibly important for me to cook, you know what I mean? The sort of and you know, simple's, you know, the the best regional food of any country is simple. We're not talking 24-hour sticky date ribs kind of stuff, you know. We're talking about a very quick dial, but you know, you know, and and and maybe some tandoor, you know, sort of marinated tandoor chicken and yogurt. That kind of idea with a bit of basmati rice. Really simple stuff that I can I can turn around in 30 to 40 minutes. Because of that re knowing understanding the the family and what region of the world they come from, uh, and that aisle, it just changes the subject. And you know what I mean? And I stopped thinking about the film and I start thinking about food, and it's a really important thing to do.

SPEAKER_00 9:27

And does that place where you buy the ingredients, that family, that supermarket, help you inform the next subject that you're about to step into, which is the kitchen after the movie?

SPEAKER_03 9:37

Yeah, absolutely. And just mentally preparing for something else that changes the subject. And and and actually, you know, we all we all understand we we all take so much pleasure out of being foodies and food and the discovery of new food, but the reality is it's air, water, and food are the two things we need to actually live, you know, and and sort of like going back to a real basics of I spend a lot of money on movies, you know, the ten million on a movie, fifteen, sometimes twenty. And it's slightly embarrassing. But there's a one thing that you can always have to get back to is actually you need to put food in your body to actually Why is that embarrassing? Just spending too much money. You know, I spend the I spend the same amount of money sometimes that m we could get you a small hospital. You know what I mean? And I'm all about healing, and I'm all about, you know, um ridiculous.

SPEAKER_00 10:30

So speaking about the healing, yeah, I want to talk about the beach, the series that you did with the SPS. I mean, you couldn't have got more close to healing in that in that film. So this was a f uh sorry, film, it was a series um shot during COVID where you spent almost two months on a beach on your own in remote Western Australia.

SPEAKER_03 10:51

Yeah, there was a crew.

SPEAKER_00 10:52

There was there was a crew. There was a crew, yeah. So it's just proper isolation, cruiside.

SPEAKER_03 10:57

Yeah. You and the chooks. No alcohol, um the only occasional cigarette, and and three chooks to look after. You know, it's three chickens, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:05

So fake it till you make it, to get the funding, you said that this was going to be the one of the most important pieces of work that you ever were going to make.

SPEAKER_03 11:14

And and and it was in a strange way, but I still can't work out what at the time you didn't believe it was going to be.

SPEAKER_00 11:21

You just needed to get the dollars.

SPEAKER_03 11:22

Yeah, I was like, yeah, yeah, well, yeah, yeah. I kind of and I came up with a couple of recipes, a couple of go-tos. And because it's the beach, you know what I mean? Part of the part of the idea is what I catch, I would turn into um something. First you get the protein and then you decide what you're going to do with it, whether it's black bean or, you know, you are you going to molee it or whatever, you know what I mean? Like, you know, sort of that was really interesting. I could I could, you know, have a cup of soy sauce with ginger and shallots and and some sugar in it, but if I didn't have the protein to cook it with, it kind of was a bit boring.

SPEAKER_00 11:57

You know, so what did you take with you?

SPEAKER_03 11:59

I had this sort of camp chest, a metal box, and it was a bit like the TARDIS. The amount of stuff that came out of it would never be able but would would ever have been able to be fitted in it from the beginning, you know what I mean? There was sort of, you know dried scallop. Shallots, you know, all those just simple things that you knew that you could rebuild. If you went and found some cockles or you caught a barramundi, or you um thrown at it for some prawns, you could always do something. More tentatively on the Asian side with this this film, the series.

SPEAKER_00 12:37

By the sea?

SPEAKER_03 12:38

Yeah, because by the sea, you know what I mean. I could have gone Mediterranean, but I just sort of I th you know, I I think I'm a bit better at sort of like Cantonese than I am uh Italian.

SPEAKER_00 12:49

Where did that come from?

SPEAKER_03 12:50

Oh well, actually, interesting. My mother couldn't cook. My mother would burn water, seriously. And she was just a bit too busy, you know what I mean? I never had a father, you know, and and she was building an empire and then just didn't have time to cook. We just really couldn't cook. So if we wanted night's food, we had to learn to cook it ourselves, me and my and my sisters. And we did. You know, and because from being from Alice Springs, I'd say we're close to Darwin, but Darwin's still fourteen hundred kilometres away, and the Asian influence of soy sauce, rice, ginger, you know, chili, shaoxin, all that kind of stuff was drop coming down and i it actually uh it's coming down from Darwin, but it actually came at a very specific time. We were very separated from Darwin, from Alice Springs. You know, Alice Springs is very much um corned beef. You know, all the meat's boiled, and then you m you make a white sauce or a uh, you know, a gravy and you have it with boiled potatoes. That was Alice Springs, cabbage, carrot, you know, boiled. Everything was boiled. And then what happened was Cyclone Tracy went through Darwin and wiped out Darwin. And everyone from Darwin, you know, and there was probably about 40,000 people, had to be relocated, and half of them came down to Alice Springs to, you know, because there was no Darwin left. It was blown away by a cyclone. And they brought rice and they brought soy sauce and they brought blood chunk, balakan, you know what I mean? All these amazing things. Light soy sauce, dark soy sauce. What do you mean there's a light soy sauce and a dark soy all that kind of what's rice? Well, we knew what rice was, but it was not a part, it wasn't a stable. And they introduced that to us, and then from there, sort of territory the multiculturalism of ter the territory, sadly, because of a natural, a massive natural disaster, was this flooding of different tastes and new foods came into Alice Springs. That was happening at the same time as I was growing up. You know, Tracy was in the 70s, I think, like yeah, 70s, and when that was happening, we were trying to learn how to cook, so we had this new in all these new ingredients and people to teach us. You know, people with families were billeted out to other families who had spare bedrooms, and we had some people who stayed with us who were very good at cooking rice and stir-fries and you know, made blood truck.

SPEAKER_00 15:08

Oh, this would have been this would have been amazing for you. Yeah, coconut.

SPEAKER_03 15:10

What the hell is coconut? Really? Yeah, like that kind of but we're talking 70s, you know. Even I I'm sure in Sydney, you know, there's probably only there was probably only a couple of Thai restaurants, or there was no sushi, at least, you know. Well if there was, there was probably only one. So it's kind of that beautiful understanding of uh multiculturalism and other people's cultures through food is you know, it's the it's the greatest barrier breaker as far as I'm concerned, food is, you know. So mum couldn't cook, we had to learn how to cook if we wanted something nice.

SPEAKER_00 15:40

If mum didn't cook, how did you know there was nice food out there?

SPEAKER_03 15:44

Well, we didn't, really. It was that transition from other people saying there is nice food out there when you went after Cyclone Tracy, and you know. So some people stayed, and then suddenly there's a Chinese restaurant, you know what I mean, and then suddenly you've learnt what sweet and sour pork is and you know, and fried rice and all that kind of stuff came with that. So then you realise there's nice food, and then you start tasting that food, and sometimes that food is quite you can't eat out every night when you come from a very poor family. Ironically, you can now because there's really you know, there's food, there's chains that we won't mention, who actually had supply you with really cheap stuff that's really bad for you, but you can eat out every night, you know. But if you want good food, you're gonna pay for it. And we didn't have much money, so we actually learnt how to cook it ourselves.

SPEAKER_00 16:30

So in the beach we see lots of Asian cookery from you. Yeah. In the like we said in the very beginning here, you needed to get the funding, so you said this was the most important thing that you were ever gonna make. Yeah. In making it you discovered that it was It was, absolutely. What was it about the beach?

SPEAKER_03 16:47

Um, you know, because I was incredibly you know, I'm I spend my life behind the camera with actors in front of the camera, and they're really weird beats actors, and they've you know, I do not still don't understand then. And then suddenly you go, okay, I'm gonna make this this series where I'm in front of the camera and I just realised you're in this is something that you've always said you'd never do. This is something that you're incredibly scared of, and especially because it's not like I'm acting a character, I'm actually just being myself. So you're showing yourself to to to the world warts and all, and it opened my mind to myself, you know what I mean? And it freed me up with all those sort of th those sort of barriers I'd created around myself because I had to drop them all to talk to the audience and to show the audience um what I'm cooking. And I think I think the food kind of was the food was an ego thing, I think, and a bit of a bit of a wank because I was showing off. Look at me, look at I can look what I can cook.

SPEAKER_00 17:51

Is that what you were thinking at the time? Yeah, you know what I mean? You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03 17:54

But it was a safety net as well, you know what I mean. I didn't understand who I was and I was afraid of this mental illness that was in me, but I do had a I had a fallback was these recipes that I perfected that I really love and and I thought I would connect better with the audience through the food rather than the stuff that I didn't know about myself.

SPEAKER_00 18:14

So food is a safety net.

SPEAKER_03 18:16

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 18:17

You say that it was a wank, but when I w when I watched the series, it felt reverent, it felt intentional, and it felt very, very calm. There was never moments as a as an audience member, I'm speaking for myself that I felt that you were, you know, tugging it there and saying, Look at what, look at how great I am. In fact, I saw myself in that scenario, in that room.

SPEAKER_03 18:40

There is a couple of dishes that were absolute failed attempts. We kept them in purely on that basis, you know what I mean? That the the perfect chef, you know what I mean? The way I survived COVID in a way was I made that, but actually it was Rick Stein and Anthony Bourdain, you know what I mean, and just travelling, Luke Newen, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 19:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:06

Just them travelling, even though they were older series and that sort of stuff, food and travelling, the things that we could not do in a way, you know, there was a point where we couldn't even go to the supermarket, remember? Yeah what I mean? We literally had to get a permit to go to the IGA. But you know, it's that's how mentally how I survived staying at home and I could travel through those those shows. And I don't want to diss any of them, but I I do like Anthony Bod Bourdain in that sense. Sadly, I'm so angry with him for what he did to himself, you know what I mean? And I um I totally understand mental illness, but I was like, you were you were so special to me. You know, I was actually angry with him because I was angry because I needed him.

SPEAKER_00 19:44

What did you need him for?

SPEAKER_03 19:46

I just loved his world, his attitude, you know what I mean. He would tell you something tastes like shit. There's a lot of cooking shows that are so anal bleachly perfect, they don't they don't fuck up. And they say, my my recipe, you know what? That's that recipe's been around for a very long time, guys. You know what I mean? But suddenly it's your uh this is my chicken mole. It's like bullshit. There's 3,000 years of this fucking recipe going, you know what I mean? It's like self-centered pricks, and they never burn something, they never have to throw something out, they never put too much you know what I mean. They're just it's just this cleanliness is is close to godlinessly boring stuff. Whereas Anthony Bourdain, wats and all rock and roll.

SPEAKER_00 20:27

So there's no such thing as a perfect chef.

SPEAKER_03 20:30

No, but there there are TV shows that would put think they can portray that.

SPEAKER_00 20:33

So let's look at this. Is there such a thing as a perfect movie?

SPEAKER_03 20:37

No, no. Food food is close to cinema in that way. We are so different. It taste buds are different. I don't like this, I don't like that. I like romantic comedies, I like horror. All of that sort of stuff comes into play and it becomes a personal thing. Some 10-star Michelin place, you the food could be crap, but for someone else, it's the greatest dish they've ever had in their entire life, or dish is, you know what I mean? It's so personal, and that's the same with storytelling, cinema. Music, music's up there, art, architecture. Someone goes, This is the greatest building in the world, and the other person goes, it's ugly and horrific and brutal. You know what I mean? They're the beautiful key things that make us different but make us all the same, and that's really exciting. So there's no such thing as a perfect film because you unless you think it's a perfect film, but just remember there's someone next to you who thinks it's terrible.

SPEAKER_00 21:35

So when um when we we I was thinking about the food in in the beach.

SPEAKER_03 21:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:40

Peaceful, calm, reverent.

SPEAKER_03 21:42

Um You know, chopping is one of the greatest, even though you've got a knife, which is a dangerous thing. Chopping is one of the greatest things for mental health. It is a dangerous thing. You could lose a finger.

SPEAKER_00 21:54

Have you lost a finger yet?

SPEAKER_03 21:56

No, I've got lots of s I've got lots of scars and a you know, I've This is this is this is disgusting, but um I grow my nails a lot. When I'm really calm, my my nails grow. They can get to like there. Pretty scary stuff. And I have to be so careful about sometimes you're cooking and then you go, hang on, where'd that nail go? You're digging through a bloody chicken curry, you know, a yellow chicken curry, looking for a a nail is like a needle in a haystack. It's just so disgusting. Anyway.

SPEAKER_00 22:31

But I'm I'm thinking about the the the reverence and and and and the calm and and the processes in that it's a very monk life style that you gave us.

SPEAKER_03 22:43

I I f well I have friends who are chefs, and that that whole kitchen is torture porn. You know what I mean? It's the weirdest, the pressure. You know the difference between a chef and a cook, you know what I mean? One gets paid, I guess. We all know who that one is. And it's that that pressure cooker concept is just it completely does it just scares the hell out of me, and I do not understand that, you know what I mean? Because it's it should be meditative, you know what I mean? And you you're starting to use your listening, you're starting you you you're smelling when you're cooking like you're frying something, and you know when it's when it's going to get to that brown or something, because you're you're listening to it. The the sound of what's frying, whether it's onion and garlic or whatever, that it changes sound, and then a different smell comes. So you all these senses are starting, they're all actually happening. Almost like you're you're closing your eyes and you're clearing your mind, and you're doing a mantra in a way, you know, sort of meditative. So all the senses are starting to play, timings, balancing, you know, salt, sweet salt, sugar, you know, all that kind of whatever it is, you know. And that's there's something amazing about that. And you know, I'm I'm privileged in that way because I cook for myself and and sometimes, you know, and and I like to cook for the crew, but I'm not cooking for, you know, four ferocious carnivoreic children who've been to school and are hungry, and you've got to get them fed, and you've got to get them into into bed, and you've um you know what I mean, and you have to be up at six in the morning to get them to school to go for you to go. That's see, I that's that's another level as well. That's a different pressure cooker, you know what I mean? And I respect that. But I've got myself in a place where I can romantically talk about food as senses and and timings and and honing in on the sound that that you know when it's n nearly ready, it changes the sound, the sound changes, the smell changes, all that kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_00 24:48

A lot of this speak is intuitive. Did you learn do you think this came from being on the land growing up in Alice Springs?

SPEAKER_03 24:58

It came from, you know, well I I started cooking for my family because we wanted to eat nice stuff, and so did my sisters. But it's necessity.

SPEAKER_00 25:07

But you're tap you're talking about tapping into sensory stuff. You're talking about sort of out-of-body, you're not talking about you're not learning it from books. This is stuff that you know.

SPEAKER_03 25:16

And you know, we we've got no social media, obviously, you know, with kids of the 70s, and there was one cookbook in in the household and it had no cover, but it was called the Empire Cookbook. Wow. And it was like that thick. But you know, we're talking Beef Wellington and and and just you know, that high-end British food in a way. So it was sort of on unobtainable, and it I don't think it had any photos, you know what I mean? It was pre-photos, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 25:45

It feels like it was just left behind by some, you know, influencer.

SPEAKER_03 25:49

Uh uh no, it was my grandmother's cookbook, and and she bought it to, you know, because that was part of trying to be trying to fit in with this Western world. She's Aboriginal, you know, full-blood Aboriginal woman. But she I think she bought that book to try and fit into the Western world that was coming. You know what I mean? She was born under a tree, had never seen a of a um a white person until she was eight, you know, a tribal life, you know. So, but she yeah, she had that book. So that's all we had. So it was kind of like, you know how you hone your skill about uh, you know, the secret herbs and spices in a way. You actually honed your skills because you weren't watching cooking shows. You know, I think we had I think, you know, the first cooking show we saw was Peter Russell Clark on the ABC, you know, come in and get it, come in and get it. You know, that was kind of that was our world. You know, and that was much later. So we actually honed our skills on tasting something and understanding what's in it, and then replicating it for through that way. I spent a bit of time down here at film school, and I used to go uh every I was I was living in Blues Point, and I'd catch the ferry with my son Dylan, you know, you know, in a pram, and we'd go across to Chinatown to Sussex Street, and there was a soy chicken place upstairs uh in one of those food courts, and I just fell in love with this soy chicken. So, you know, very quickly uh you understand, so there's light soy, dark soy, shower chicken. I could taste this in it. Five spice, you know what I mean, which is you know, five spice is basically, was it cinnamon saranese blended with something else I can't remember, you know, and that's that's that's the stock. They make that dark stock out of that. But there was something missing that and I was I stayed there for about three, four years, but there was always something missing that I could not pick out of this stock that they were making this uh chicken out of. It was tr it to drive me mad. And obviously, um there's brown sugar or palm sugar in it. And it drove me mad for three years. I just could I could taste it. It was something velvety and something quite unique. And then one day I discovered, and it was just a epiphany, they were putting chocolate in the stock. Just sweet, camel, you know, just chocolate. And then I went, of course, there's something it was almost like almost like it was it was Chinese, Cantonese, soy chicken, but they were they were creating like a a a a Mexican mole. You know what I mean? They had chocolate with star and east, five spice, j you know, cinnamon with the soy and and and light soy dark soy, ginger, garlic, but they put chocolate in it, and that that was a real amazing piphany for me. And now when I make my own soy chicken, you and it doesn't matter, just don't don't worry about the you know the 99% bloody wank, you know, bitter shit. Get cheap ass cheap nasty chocolates, even better if it's one of those kind of Cadbury ones where it's chocolate and it's got caramel in it.

SPEAKER_00 28:59

It's for sugar.

SPEAKER_03 29:00

Yeah, and you just crack off you crack off, you know, like six little things of that and chuck it in your pot. Oh my god, the difference of uh how the soy chicken and that was their secret, their secret, and I'd find it took me three years of eating their food to work out what the bloody hell they put in it. But that was me honing my taste buds. They never told me, it was just honing your taste buds and trying to, you know, understand, oh, there's that in it, there's that in it, but there's something, there's something I can't put my finger on, you know.

SPEAKER_00 29:25

I just could like to quote you for a second on that one. Damn. Um cooking is a creative outlet for you, which we've discovered. But you sat on this, it's like painting or writing, it's got a really quick creative flow to it mentally. You start placing ingre ingredients together. Would that work with this? Would this work with that? Absolutely. So now I'm thinking about the actors that you've worked with. Now you've worked with some prolific actors, actors, strong and and and very malleable, David Wenham, Deborah Malman, Kate Blanchett. Yeah. If we were to look at these actors as ingredients, what do they bring to your films?

SPEAKER_03 30:02

Oh God, that's a d that's a difficult one. Because they're all very different, isn't it? And as a director, you don't direct them all the same way. Some people need nurturing, they need, you know, uh find a common ground with you. Others don't want to talk to you. Some want you to not abuse them, but just go, Well, we're we're not gonna talk about this. You just just do it. You know the actor, you know the character, you know what I mean? So it's very different ways of working with actors. Some need some are methods, some are not. Um, you know what I mean? Are you okay? Are you ready for another take? Do you want to do ha talk a little bit more about the character before we do it? And then then and then that's one character in the in a scene, and then the other actor you just go, you're right, you ready? Okay, let's go. You know, that's you know, they're very different people and it's almost like they're different flames or the different pots. You know what I mean? So do you like Some are walks, some are pressure cookers, some are some are ovens, some are steamers. You know what I mean? I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 31:05

So Deborah, you worked with her both on Sweet Country and Wolfram. Yeah. Did you have to work with her as an ingredient? Did you have to treat her not treat her, but work with her or direct her differently?

SPEAKER_03 31:16

It's almost like she's a stable. You know, they've they're not an ingredient, they're a meal, and they're it's just they're stay you know, someone like Deborah Malman is a stable. She will give you nutrients and substance, and she'll give you everything you need to survive as a director. And it could be, I don't know, bolognese or meat and three veg. You know what I mean? It's I don't know, I wouldn't put her into a an actual plate on a plate, but it's kind of she's she's a full meal. And if you have her in your film, your character will be amazing and the audience will be full.

SPEAKER_00 31:51

So is that how you are like with using ingredients in different d dishes and different purposes?

SPEAKER_03 31:57

That's the creative side of it, you know what I mean? I'm a I'm a firm, absolute hater of fruit in in savory dishes, you know what I mean? I just, you know, it's like, oh, you know, they're cooking around and go, this is gonna be amazing, and then they go and throw some fucking peaches in. You know what I mean? Oh, you wrecked it. Or you know, the classic, you know, it's sort of like if you know, you've got salami and that on a, and then they're making a pizza and they've got salami and they've got um boccini and that, and then they'll put a fucking, they'll put some grapes on it. It's like, oh you wrecked it, yeah. You know what I mean? That's kind of that's me, you know what I mean? But I I just I I really did you know what I mean. We do balance sweet and savory in in you know, in the cooking, but I just find that that putting fruit in everything, but there's one weird one that I do do love. Um and it's a classic Australian debauchery, the way we've wrecked we've completely abused and wrecked someone else's beautiful culinary culture, and it's the curry pie. The the minced curry pie with raisins in it. It's you know, it's so 1970s, Australia. And I remember growing up with it, square pie, minced with Keene's curry powder, you know what I mean, cooked to an inch of its life with raisins. And it's evilly brilliant, you know what I mean? Because, you know, it's subcontinent, you know, the Indians I don't know, did they put rais- I've never seen an Indian rest uh um traditional recipe with raisins with curried mince, you know what I mean? But it's something I guess we made up and I I love it. And it's uh and so I'm contradicting myself that I hate it. You put you put fruit in with with meat, I'll I'll I'll just go, nah, you wrecked it, you're an idiot, you're showing off, you know what I mean? But there is that creative side to it, you know what I mean? That's sort of like what would happen if I toasted some pine nuts and put them on top? All right, Italian, but what if you did that to sweeten sour pork? That's the creative, and that could happen instantly. You're very careful because you don't want to wreck a meal because you need to eat it, you know what I mean? So I love that kind of discovery, and I love discovering things like the chocolate in the soy chicken.

SPEAKER_00 34:07

Are you got any other discoveries like that you could share with us? More like hacks.

SPEAKER_03 34:13

One of the one of the most you know your your IGA or your Coles or your Woolies, one of the most unrepresented things they have is you go to you look at it and you go, that's disgusting. You know the marinara mix? You know what I mean? And you just go, nah. I'm not gonna put a tin of tomatoes on that and then throw it over some pasta, that's gonna be you know what I mean? But if you want a really quick, brilliant seafood stock, five dollars worth of marinara, put it put it in a pot of water, boil it, get rid of the scum, and there'll be a lot of scum because it's really bad seafood. But you will have the and then actually just disregard the marinara. But that fish stock is brilliant for so much unit you can do, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 35:05

For someone who grew up in Central Australia, to me you seem like you've got a really good understanding of food from the sea.

SPEAKER_03 35:13

Yeah, well our scapism was like t as children was to um we only did it a probably twice, three times in my lifetime, was but was to go to Darwin, which is fourteen hundred kilometres away from Ellis Springs, and go fishing. And the greatest thing ever that could actually we fantasized was to catch a barramundi and a mud crab. We'd only ever heard of them, we'd never had eaten them eaten a barramundi or a you know. But it was just sort of like when I grow up, I'm gonna go fishing and catch a barramundi, you know? So mud crab, mud crab I'll literally cook I'll catch a big mother of a mud crab, or actually a man, we put the the females back.

SPEAKER_00 35:56

And how would you cook the barrow uh the the the mud crab?

SPEAKER_03 35:58

Oh Jesus. The the best one's obviously chili mud crab, which is it's when you work out the chili mud crab recipe, it is dumbass simple. It's most you know what I mean. Literally, it's tomato sauce, light soy, dark soy, ginger garlic, chili, and if you want to be really tricky, um some some beaten egg in the beaten egg whites. You know what I mean, just to thicken up the sauce, you know what I mean? But you know, um it's dumbass simple.

SPEAKER_00 36:23

Warwick, um you tra you said you travel 90% of the time.

SPEAKER_03 36:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:27

Where is home? And and and what's the kitchen look like at home?

SPEAKER_03 36:31

Um, I'm homeless at the moment. I have a beautiful wife in Adelaide. She can put up with me for around about generally about ten days, and then she goes, uh shouldn't you be back on tour? Where when where are you shooting your next meeting? Which is beautiful, it's such a beautiful, you know what I mean? We're old and we love each other, but you know, and I love cooking for her, but she's a vegetarian. This is really interesting, you know, because being a carnival all my life and growing up with boiled meat, boiled ribs, boiled corned beef, one pot, chuck the potatoes in, chuck the, you know, if you want to get fancy, make a, you know, a white sauce. That was my life. And and then obviously Asian uh uh culinary stuff came into my life. And I've travelled so much now, you know, I've spent so much time in Spain, so much time in Italy, you know, in France. And it's I'm very fortunate because it is it's just a foodie discovery. You know, I mean going to markets, I'm all I'm and I'm saying that even in even when I'm in Spain and when I'm in um Italy, whether it's Rome or Venice or whatever, I've got an apartment. I always get the you know, uh the whoever I'm working for, they give me an apartment, find the markets, and start cooking, you know? And and so I've honed my skills everywhere. So very, very fortunate in that way. And you know, from boiled meat oh where this is going, sorry, to cut a long story short, I lost my mind. My wife is a vegetarian. And we've been together for uh probably about fourteen years now, I think. She'll growl the hell out of me, you know what I mean, because I don't remember. And it's been one of the most amazing pleasures of my life is to rework my brain about cooking vegetarian you know what I mean? Just something as basic as fish sauce that you would I just splash around, you know, willy-nilly like cologne, you know. Um was fish sauce. It's it's you know, she's a vegetarian, you know what I mean? It's sort of like, how do we work this? You know what I mean? And I know that's vegetarian fish sauce, but it's not. Sort of the same thing. Not the same thing. And then suddenly you're just like, uh, it's actually too hard to cook meat, you know what I mean, to put that, you know, to make something um with that form of protein. It's just easier to cook vegetarian so that she can have we can share the same meal rather than you know. I do occasionally like I'll do a lot of vegetarian for her, and then I'll just have one chop on the side for me. But I got in trouble for that the uh uh uh about a month ago. She goes, I can still smell that chop in the house. You know, just the fat, you know, how strong. You know what I mean? It's like, oh god, she's weaning me off my chops now. What's going on with the world? That's it. I've got I've got two options. I have to leave her for the chop or I have to become a vegetarian. But chop on the side.

SPEAKER_00 39:29

So you you you No, you haven't become a vegetarian. No, I haven't. No, right.

SPEAKER_03 39:33

No, but I think I I think it's like I don't know, it's like maybe drugs and alcohol in a way. It's like some weird alcoholic thing where I I kind of like because I'm away from her so much, I can eat as much meat as I want. So when I'm with her, I'll eat vegetarian. Or I'll try, I'll try desperately. You know what I mean? I know I'm gonna get what I want later. I can just hang on. It's like, you know, I I'm a smoker, and I know if I get on a plane, I can't smoke. So I don't. And I don't get stressed about and I don't really care, because I know when I get off the plane, I can have a bloody cigarette. It's just you know what I mean, it's this calmly kind of mental thing. So going home, it's like, well, yeah, we're gonna we're gonna eat a lot of vegetarian stuff. Which is really good for me, obviously. It's helpful. Gives you a break. Yeah, give me a break. Yeah. And because I know that, well, you know, when I have to go and do another job, I can eat as much meat as I want. I can cook as much as many chops as I want.

SPEAKER_00 40:24

So let's go back to you spoke about your mum not having time to cook. She wasn't a good cook because she was building an empire. Freda. Yeah. She's a formidable lady, your mum.

SPEAKER_03 40:33

Rock star.

SPEAKER_00 40:34

Tell us a little bit about Freda.

SPEAKER_03 40:36

Mum, well, I don't know what to say.

SPEAKER_00 40:39

Uh look what about the um the Australian Aboriginal, the Centre for Australian Aboriginal Media Association.

SPEAKER_03 40:47

A radio station, you know what I mean? And and a video unit and a a hot recording studio, you know? She started all of that, and it, you know, she gave a lot of people a lot of careers. And part of the suffering, but what she didn't give us was good food. And I totally understand it, you know what I mean? It's sort of like, well, you know, you know, mum couldn't cook, you know, it's like, I wish mum could cook, but if mum could cook, she might not have given these you know, hundreds of people's jobs and careers in artistic ways, music and cinema and all that kind of stuff. So very happy. And they, you know, and actually it in a strange way it gives you s independence, self independence, you know what I mean? You know, that you well you want something nice, learn how to cook it. Rather than it just being given to you all the time, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 41:38

So like Do you cook for mum?

SPEAKER_03 41:40

Yeah, love it. Yeah, I love cooking for sadly. Sadly, mum wants from me is bloody cabanara. And I love Cabanara. But her cabanara, it's like UHC or condensed milk cream, you know what I mean? You know, and my Cabanara is one Charlie with uh egg yolks, uh you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 42:07

But you're making it for mum, you love her, she's a rock star, you do anything.

SPEAKER_03 42:11

You know what I mean? She's literally it's like mum, I must have just give you a spoon to eat that cabanara, you know what I mean? It's that much sorts, and it's in a strange way, it is your childhood, and it's you know, it's the early Italian restaurants like in Alice Springs and that, that was the Cabanara, you know what I mean? Because they dumbed it down for the Aussie taste palette, you know what I mean? And where the hell could you get one Charlie in bloody in uh Alice Springs? But now you can, you know what I mean? We have you know, and sort of like so I've fed her like the sacred version of Cabanara, and she's like, shit.

SPEAKER_00 42:46

Dad of four, you've got four children?

SPEAKER_03 42:48

Three. Three, father of three.

SPEAKER_00 42:50

How do you communicate good eating to your kids?

SPEAKER_03 42:52

You know, my children, my children are absolute they're my children are fucking annoying because they're brilliant, you know what I mean? And I worry for because of that performance, they are just so good at everything. One's a DJ, one's a very famous filmmaker, cinematographer now, and you know, builds vintage race cars, you know what I mean? It's kind of one has one of the biggest non-for-profit uh companies in Australia called Common Ground. They're just insane, you know? So and because I've cooked for them, and I've always, you know, part of that pleasure is cooking to, you know, for for your children. That's you know, that's manly manly stuff, or parenty parenty stuff that just really hits to the core of being a good parent, you know, cooking good food for your children. But now my son makes his own rice noodles. You know what I mean? He m he makes he My daughter my daughter was the one who pr taught me to do the proper um Kavanaugh with the one charty and the egg yolks and the you know half a kilo of Parmesan mixed with the egg yolts and you know they are insane cooks and I'm worried that they they uh they love food and they have become insane cooks and they can become insane cooks because of what that the access on the internet now to get things, you know what I mean? Really good, which which I didn't have they don't really need to have their their sort of their zen taste buds trying to work out what's actually in SUP anymore because they can just Google it, you know. So it's a different world, but they're it's almost like they're competing against me now to be better at cooks than me. Who makes their own bloody rice noodles? You know, steamed and you know what I mean, and stretched and pulled and and egg noodles and you know, all you know, who does that? Well my son does. But and I th I th I think th they they're unbelievably amazing, they're highly annoying, and maybe they've got performance issues.

SPEAKER_00 44:59

Are they I mean you're clearly proud of them? Are they proud of you?

SPEAKER_03 45:04

Yes, absolutely. They um they are the first to say, I'm so proud of you, dad, and that's amazing. Or dad, why'd you say that? You're a dickhead. You're an idiot. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 45:16

They've you know, they've they've they've it's no surprise because you speak about your mother in the same way.

SPEAKER_03 45:22

So it's just keeping it honesty and a love of you know what I mean? Like see, dickhead is it's where I come from, dickhead is a s is a sound is a word of endearment. Arsehole, if you get caught an arsehole, that's something you're in trouble. You know what I mean? But hey you dickhead. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 45:38

I love you. You've chosen your people as your social cause. Why are your people important to you?

SPEAKER_03 45:46

Well, it is, you know, it's like any nationality or or culture. Why are we important to ourselves? Because you know, we are being dumbed down, you know what I mean? There's this mop monolithic kind of Western concept that's actually taking over. It's trying to homogenize food, it's trying to homogenize language, it's trying to homogenize art, everything, you know what I mean? And every single nationality needs to be strong about who they are and be proud of that. And I am, and I have a I have the keys to the cinema, you know what I mean? That this movie that's that that's about to be released, isn't it? Hundred screens? That is pretty powerful. And there's a responsibility to tell my people's stories and to get our voices and our colour, our faces, on the screen, because at the moment we'll all just be AI'd into sort of like anal bleach food and and the same looking face with the same size tits and hits and the same size six packs, and it's just very boring, you know.

SPEAKER_00 46:49

Now, final question food and film have a prime place at your table and the editor suite.

SPEAKER_03 46:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:55

What earns them that privilege?

SPEAKER_03 46:58

I think that the the c connected the sustenance, the the elixir of of life are art, food, and music. Come on, you know what I mean? Like they would if you have if you have all of that in your life, you should be okay.

SPEAKER_00 47:13

Warwick, thank you. Your legacy on the Australian cultural landscape will be heard by those who can sit in your stillness.

SPEAKER_03 47:22

Thank you. Or or they can drink from the well that I dug.

SPEAKER_00 47:31

That's it for this episode of Three Food Memories. Be sure to spread the plated love and check out our hundred-plus back episodes. You can catch them on YouTube as well. Just search for Three Food Memories. For all things TFM, head to the socials at Three Food Memories and at Savasavas. For more info, send us a message, head to threefoodmemories.com. Three Food Memories is produced and edited by Lauren McQuerta with original music by Russell Torrance. Nastika La Philly, and bye for now.

SPEAKER_02 48:01

Thank you for listening to Papa's podcast. Don't forget to like and subscribe and tell your friends. Bye. Bye.