Marketing & Mayhem
Two gals talking marketing, life, and all the mayhem in between.
Marketing & Mayhem
Parenting Teenagers, the Panini Generation & Know Your Kids with Peggy Derivan, Licensed Mental Health Counselor
If you’ve ever wondered if you’re the one keeping your therapist up at night … this one’s for you. Raising a teen - anticipating raising a teen - join us an intimate conversation with the bright and bubbly Peggy Derivan. She’s going to push your process and perspective on raising teens - thank goodness. After all “we’re pretty screwed up, and doing our best” (hey, she said it, and she’s the expert).
While societal norms have taught you that “dreading the teenage years” are the norm - we’re here to debunk that. Well, Peggy is. Ever questioned the old adage that you can’t be friends with your kids? Us too. Guess what - we go there. After all the key qualities of deep friendships and key qualities of relationships. So why wouldn’t we want to be friends with our kids?
From shaving your legs - to the pressure we all felt, to fit in. This conversation brings up some of our own childhood and teenage memories. Trigger time - the “am I a bad mom” convo. How to set boundaries, express yourself - and ensure you’re a mom your kids can look up to, and a mom they maybe even want to be. The role of children in our family has changed drastically in 100 years. We’re the “panini generation” - the single generation to experience both authoritarian style families (from days of old) to children with access and educations, whose feelings and sense of self have a deep rooted value in our familial systems.
And it’s no easy task to transition through all the ways we personally have seen children take a role in the household. Peggy gives us both lots of grace - sage advice - and some extra tools to help us navigate these uncharted waters. A friendly reminder momma, you’re not alone in the mayhem of raising kids …
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Hosted by @raebecca.miller and @jennyfromthe843
Um three faces Y'all. We're back with a guest. I'm so excited we have Peggy Daravan with us today. She is a licensed mental health counselor and relationship coach.
Speaker 2:Hi, hi, hi, peggy, I love that our theme is like mental health and having counselors on here, because this is the kind of people we need to surround ourselves with.
Speaker 1:I was going to say you were going to say, because we're thick. If the shoe fits, becca, it's so good, though I was just saying the other day that I'm so thankful for this podcast for this exact reason, because I've been on my own counselor whatever journey forever, but the more we love different people and different perspectives, that's been the best. That's such a amazing opportunity to talk to people like you, like we're pumped about this.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I could see that being really fun. I listened to a lot of therapists too, you know, just like seeing what they're coming up with and how I resonate, or don't you know?
Speaker 1:it's a lot of fun, yeah, and it's all perspective, right. And then you get to listen to everyone like us, yeah, all the time that I mean what a trip.
Speaker 3:but like that is the blessing of my life because, like I've had, you know, 20 some odd years of like just meeting people and like having access to their most intimate stories and experiences. You know, and I mean that's all the time, all the time it's so life changing because, like I just I don't, when I look at a person, I'm just automatically now I'm like, oh, you know, there's so much more to them, there's so much that's leading to, you know, if they're being an asshole or whatever they're doing. You know, and I know, just from going through this for so long, like I know that it doesn't really take that long to get to like the better sweet core of the person.
Speaker 3:Yeah, like the better, sweet core of feeling, yeah, like we're all just pretty, pretty screwed up and doing our best, you know, and exactly yeah, and like everyone wants love, everyone wants to love, you know and there's times I leave therapy, though, and I'm like god, I hope she's gonna be okay, like because of the stuff that I said and I'm like right, no, it's fine.
Speaker 3:It's fine. I'm like I hope she has the tools to process my messed up night, like like your therapist should have those tools Like you want. Okay, I think you know if you're really not feeling confident about that.
Speaker 2:Ah right, but I bet you she is. No, no, no, I just like you know, I think back sometimes about things I've said and I'm like, oh well, that might keep her up tonight, yeah, but at least we're funny, you know what I mean? Like I feel like therapy. I mean we at least give them a giggle at some point, because that's just who you and I are, because we deflect with humor. So it's like, oh, here's my trauma, but I'm going to give you a little knock, knock joke on the way out. That's kind.
Speaker 3:Switch the energy for them, right yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, so we will.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Tell us about your, what you specialize in and all the things about you. Yeah absolutely.
Speaker 3:So yeah, I've been a counselor in private practice here in New York for since my son was like just born, so he he he's 18. So I've been doing this for 18 years and and I absolutely love it. What I've done in the last year or so is I've just kind of honed in on my own passion about what I've figured out about relationships between people from doing a lot of work with people, and the area that I've really been leaning into is the relationship between moms and their teenagers. Because, wow, like there is a lot underneath and a lot outside with the cultural expectations of societal expectations, the pressures of this or that on both of them. That really destroys a good relationship. And what I know and seen and been helpful to is that if we can keep that relationship strong, like all the other stuff is so much better. So yeah, so I created a coaching program since May and doing coaching for moms who have teenagers that are stressing the hell out, you know.
Speaker 2:I love this like. I am so excited because, you know, rebecca and I both have daughters and I see the train of coming like the sass is just every day and I keep telling myself I'm like we've created these monsters because they're I mean, my daughter specifically, is like a mini version of me.
Speaker 3:That makes sense, right, but she like has a 43 year old attitude, uh-huh at 10, and I'm like, yeah, right, she doesn't know what you know, right, she doesn't have, like the the vast amount of understanding and experience that you know. She is a, she is a 10 year old version. Yeah, I mean, I know I call it vast and maybe you're like, no, I don't know that. No, I'm like I don't know that, like you're 33 years beyond where she's at, so that's a decent amount more you know. Yeah, it's really exciting and you really hit on like the worst part of all this is like people dread, dread, like their kids reaching teenagerhood. So that tells me like that's a huge problem for everybody, right? Yeah, I mean, they're still your children, they're still people. Right, you're still a human, everyone's a human Right. And like, like, what the heck is allowing dread to be like the expectation, right and the goal. I don't know if it's the goal, but like people just accept it.
Speaker 1:Like it's become the societal norm for sure. It's like all the jokes about even like bad marriages, Like there are these like sort of like little niche jokes of like oh teenagers, oh husbands, but I mean don't, I feel like that's because of like oh teenagers, oh husbands, but I mean, don't like that's because of people's like own experience.
Speaker 2:Like I was not. I personally hated ages 12. I'm gonna be honest with you. Like 19, well, it's a different experience. It's just a really weird. I don't have control of my life, but I'm supposed to be kind of going from kid to grown up per se and you just don't feel like you really belong in either category.
Speaker 3:Correct and you know that, right, you went through this teenage time and you know that you felt that way and yet, in general, not everybody, but we kind of perpetuate that for the next generation, right? Yeah, like we just like. Oh well, that's how it is, it's going to suck, and you know, I often hear you know it's going to suck and then they're going to come back to you and it'll be great, which not necessarily. You know, if it sucks too much, we don't want it to suck Like.
Speaker 2:We feel like rebecca and I try so hard to not put our own shit on our kids. We're like, no, we're gonna do all these therapy things and read all these books and study all this stuff, so we don't do that, yeah yeah, we had a situation here this weekend.
Speaker 1:We had a milestone situation. I was deciding whether or not I was going to share it, but I was like this is going to decide whether or not like so. My two girls are nine and a half and seven and a half. One is very light blonde, very light skinned. One is they're the same recipe. I don't understand what happened here. What is very tan? They're very Elsa on that, my littlest has been bothering me for probably six months about shaving her legs.
Speaker 3:Oh, has she, Okay, no.
Speaker 1:I'm telling you right now, and so I finally had this moment where I was like am I being honest when I try to convince her every five seconds that she's beautiful without, and then she sees me do it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's not hard.
Speaker 1:So we did it this week. We did it. We ripped the bandaid off. I was like we're going to get the tools, we're going to like work together and we literally, and I was like all right, like, and she's so proud of herself right now. But I was like I don't feel good telling you things and then imitating a different behavior and like, as much as I want you to be the one to like fuck the patriarchy and like not worry about it or whatever, I'm like I'm literally in my bathroom putting on a full face and like shaving my legs.
Speaker 3:I mean, I was, I was waiting to hear potentially, that you're like I let. I'm letting my legs grow, yeah, no.
Speaker 1:I know I had to go one of two ways, right, and I'm like, yeah, and then I was like is it really? Like I can tell it's bothering you, and I also didn't want to dismiss it because I didn't want to take away her ability to talk to me about things I didn't want to minimize. This kid never makes a fuss about anything, so I'm like it meant something to her makes a fuss about anything, so I'm like it meant something to her, it really did.
Speaker 1:And now she's had like three days of like how nice they like and she's like putting on lotion. I'm like I mean, at the end of the day it was so much less than I like, gave it space for Can I ask what do you think like was stopping you from saying yes to that?
Speaker 1:Like she's not old enough Her age and like I was like I don't see the other kids her age with shaved legs. I was like what is like seven seat? First grade is like really little. But then she is like an older first grader. She's born like earlier in that year group and then she is we like joke that she's like a godfather. I mean she's got some like old school. Okay, yeah, she recently won an award at school for self-control. Wow, she's like scary under control old school. I guess that I mean mentally and with her limbs and like compared to her classmates I was like okay, kind of saw that coming, but like it was really. And my oldest was like well, I want to see how it goes. Classic old. She's like yeah, yeah, we called her and last night and told her that's how big of a deal it was.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, like you know, there are things that we, you know we wouldn't have done ourselves or we didn't have to ourselves. But like, what I like is that you really listened to her. Like that is the key. Like, listen to your kids, get to the why, get to the what, try to understand. Right, it's an exploration. Like that's the big. I tell all my moms, like, be a researcher, be like a detective, just get into the nitty-gritty so you kind of understand what, why this matters, right, well, it's also like this, really intimate experience without.
Speaker 1:I just don't have like a better word. So, like I'm not saying that like I'm a perv with my kid, but like I. So I like, when I actually ended up getting like an, an electric razor so we ended up cause I had one when I was a kid and it was crappy and I didn't want to set it up oh, I was so frustrated. I was like so now I'm remembering a memory I forgot about being frustrated that I wasn't being able to like get this thing nailed down. So we got we actually got a men's one for sensitive skin. It was 36 bucks, it's amazing. However, it's seven and a half years.
Speaker 1:So I actually did have to, after I cut it down, like actually get in there with her and like help her out and get the rest shaved down, and now we're going to just switch to electric. I'm like we don't have any permission to use a razor. That's crazy, right, but you have this tool now. We taught her how to use it. She's like really into it. I'm like this is the funniest thing I never saw coming this year on my bingo card.
Speaker 1:How great, how great though right, is it a win? I was like I don't know, am I making this worse or making this better? Well, what? What the heck is?
Speaker 3:this Right. How do you feel about your relationship with her?
Speaker 1:Oh, we're so close to. He was in my bed trying to sleep there last night. Like she was like do you think maybe we could just like snuggle until I fall asleep? And I was like you don't get good sleep when you lay in my bed, so we can snuggle and then you can sleep in your bed. Perfect, you're like perfect, yeah, but because she tosses and turns and I toss and turn and we're both like yeah, exhausted the next morning.
Speaker 3:And then the other right, the other question I you know, I think about here is like what damage is this going to do? Like she was like a bro again. Right, yeah, and you can offer that to her if this is a pain, because, like, it's cool the first time, but then it gets really annoying.
Speaker 1:So somebody already said to her like you, you're gonna have to do that forever. An adult, no, no, you don't. And I was like why is that? It's kind of like that teenager suck mentality right, like we have all these like same old, same old. You know you're going to do that forever. I'm like, why are you making this seem like so much gravity? Like it's just hair.
Speaker 3:It's a decision. She may decide someday that she's like let's do the exact opposite.
Speaker 1:I wouldn't be shocked if she was the one with, like, braided armpit hair or something she's going to do whatever she wants to do, of course, but, like you know, why would you even say that to a kid? I?
Speaker 3:don't know, right, but you're onto this, this concept.
Speaker 3:So a lot of the work I do with moms is just kind of lift, like letting the small stuff kind of not be such a big deal, right, yeah, and and really leaning into who your kids are. Like, my big thing is just you got to know your kids, you know, and often when kids start to become teenagers we kind of based on all those experts, we don't want to know or we think that what they're doing is wrong or bad or whatever Right, and then we stopped knowing them and then they don't want to tell us who they are. But when you really know your kid you can make really good decisions with them. You can help guide them and be like you know, like you said, like it's fun to snuggle, but we won't sleep. And she's like, yeah, true, you know, yeah, you know her, you know that she won't sleep and you won't sleep, and that's not good, right yeah, well, it was just as funny to see my oldest be like I'm gonna wait to see how you guys figure this out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they're different, so different, yo, so different, but I never want to get to the part where we lose that either. Like to your point, I mean, I think that's a scary thing. I think definitely, society teaches us to kind of like be prepared to step away from this close relationship you have when they're kids. And like both of us, I mean, we have like very loving parents. But we grew up in a time where, like I mean we talked about this a few episodes ago my family didn't talk a lot about like relationships or red flags or even like sex, and I do wish I didn't learn all of that in the locker room at 13 yeah, and now it's online like whoa right, what is?
Speaker 1:coming like yeah, dang, you really let like lisa botrick give me the full education.
Speaker 2:Like all right, yeah, right, there you go, yeah but I mean I'd rather like it come from me than anybody else. Always so, like, and so it almost like. So one of our things is we talk about like testicles and so excellent, I'm like. I told clark, I'm like at some point you're probably going to hear boys talk about their balls, and I said so, I want to let you know that's what this is, and so you know it's like a joke now in our house. So I feel like it, almost like it's detaching the stigma of this stuff that we couldn't talk.
Speaker 2:I know I couldn't talk about that in my house when I was younger. Are you kidding me? I would have died Because I just don't want it to be so like. Oh well, let's not talk about those things. It's like, no, like, this is what you know. When I told you about what our bodies do like, yeah, you have a queef that's a little toot out of your woman hole. Like you know, I don't want her to be so it just I just don't want to be the kind of mom who doesn't talk about stuff and then she has to find out from her friends, of course right.
Speaker 3:So that that's leaning into relationship. You know that's like we are and like really seeing your kids, no matter what age they are, like they're still a human and we are still humans, right, when we get caught up in, I was like the mom, I have to be that person, right, yeah.
Speaker 3:You know, and I'm goofy and weird and I'll, I'll talk about queefing. I don't care, right. So like, why wouldn't I bring that to my own kid at a decent time, right, right, we're not going to bring it up, We'll talk about it at like the dinner table.
Speaker 2:My husband. He died.
Speaker 1:If you don't know, peggy, we had a guest on. She's an entrepreneur. Have you heard the Sarah Wiles episode? No, I have not. Just to bring it full circle, she's an entrepreneur. She was on like six months ago maybe. She has a thing that she calls Queefgate. She had a very short-lived job as a yoga instructor and this happened in front of a solid group of 30 people who were gathered around her for a pose demonstration Makes sense, oh God, and we will never.
Speaker 1:She talks about like she was like listen, you're going to embarrass yourself. If you do anything cool in your life, you are going to have to embarrass yourself first. Yeah, and this is like the whole. Now, it's just like this is actually funny. Like Sarah Wiles ripped the bandaid off of, like actually she's like I had to show back up the next weekend because it was a yoga instructor training and like I had still had 40 more weeks of this crap.
Speaker 1:Yeah, hell, yeah, it's just I wanted to crawl in a hole and die. I would have died. I would have laughed. No, I would have laughed. No, she was like. She said that. I said the only thing you can say. I was like oops, oops.
Speaker 3:Sorry about that.
Speaker 1:Things happen, but like we're in the place where I'm like. So the other thing that I was just thinking about when you were talking is this there's a lot of thought process around this whole, like make sure you're their mom and not their friend.
Speaker 3:Oh, I have this one, oh, and I'm like, why can't my friend?
Speaker 1:go Tell me that, yes, and I'm like that's such an I don't know if that's like an old school mentality or like this, like very command, power, control, whatever. But I'm like why can't we be friends? I'm friends with my mom.
Speaker 3:I mean think of the wonderful qualities of friendship. Do we really not want to have that with the people that we spend the most time with and that we want to be able to influence and trust us and guide? Like, if there's no friendship there, why are they going to listen to you? Why are they going to want to do anything that you want to do? So I always say, like you know, it's not parent versus friend. Like that parent is the heading and under being a parent, we absolutely have a friendship with them and we also are in a position to guide them right yeah, by. You know what life is bringing and our own value system of you know all that stuff.
Speaker 3:But like to remove the friend piece. I think the problem is that when people say you can't be their friend, they're acting like they're saying it in response to you can't let them do just anything. Right yeah, right Right. And like duh, like no, we're not going to like have our kids walk across the street when there's cars coming, like no friend would do that. Right yeah, but like friendship, right, friendship is caring about someone wanting good things for them, listening to them, you know, like being a really important part of their life, wanting to be around them, them wanting to be around you, spending quality time doing fun things, getting to know each other's stuff, how we don't want to remove that from a mom relationship. That's. That's so, so important.
Speaker 2:I feel like the people who say that, though, are typically like dictators with their kids.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think it's all about control. So there's so much about power right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's like, well, I want them to grow up and be a good person. I'm like, well, I mean, you bossing them around and having these ridiculous expectations is not going to do that. Ridiculous expectations are not, is not going to do that. Do that, like you know, it's gonna hit the door running at 17 or 18, when they can and be like I'm out.
Speaker 3:Yeah, agreed, I mean, the role of children has changed a lot in the last 100 years, even like so tremendously and like think about it when, like 200 years ago now, little house in the prairie, like everyone's going out and really you need your kids, you need your family, you need each other to freaking survive, like some people.
Speaker 3:Everyone has to milk the cow or sweep, or everyone has a world so you know and you need, like it wasn't as relationship based at all I mean, people loved other but in a way of like we need each other and we're trying to survive the same thing together, you know, and there would be some authoritarian leader, usually the father, right, just heading up that entire experience. You know, we. You know a lot has happened since then and like children's role has changed. It changed from you know over to like we want to protect them more, we want them to be educated, we don't want them to just, you know, jump right into society being little adults. You know we kind of did this thing and now.
Speaker 3:So what I find really interesting is, like us, we're in this, I call it the panini generation, not the sandwich generation, because we're smushed. Right, we are smushed. We are smushed because we have a foot easily in witnessing authoritarian families, right, like, even I know like our kids don't see as much in general in the culture of like the wife just following the husband, right, yeah and right, and that used to be the exact, you know, almost every family was functioning that way, right, so it was easier and I saw that. You know, in, in and certainly grant whatever I mean. That is not foreign to us, right. We witnessed that, we had our hands in it, we lived in that culture and our kids, like, don't have an example of that in general. There are some families that choose that and that's their choice, right, right, they don't have that example anymore. So when it's like, you need to follow me, right, or you?
Speaker 3:need to do what I say because I say it, they're kind of like what? Huh, they really have a different vision for how relationships function and we're in a bit of a crisis because you, we, us, right, we still have our feet in. Sometimes it's nice if they just listen and do what we say, right, yeah, but it doesn't land the same way as it did with us, right, and that can create a whole lot of stress and misery between, you know, parent and child, and I do see it, and you know, giving that extra space to just explain why, right, like, let's make it make sense to them instead of just I'm in charge, right, well, and like we want our kids to be critical thinkers.
Speaker 1:So I'm like, why would I give you anything that's just direction? Like certainly some things are like stop doing that or whatever, what the hell is going on in here, kind of stuff, right, but the majority is like critical thinking. I'm like, no, that doesn't Like why are you making it like that?
Speaker 3:Problem solving. We want our kids to like problem solve. I mean, mean, that's been a bit of an issue is, as we've almost protected kids I think a little too much in the last couple decades right, very loving, very loving idea, right, yeah. But there's, you know, like our kids these days, you know, are very anxious, they don't really trust themselves, and that's a problem, right, yeah, so I work with that too. Like we got to find that, that mix of like I'm here for you, I care about you, what do you think needs to happen next? And we have to let them fail, right, yeah?
Speaker 1:we have to let, even to like figuring out this like generalized, because I have have a lot of friends. I you know I have multiple, I'm like a big multi-generational friendship person. So I have a big section of friends who are in their fifties right now and their kids are leaving high school and leaving college. And there is this like in multiple cases. They have girls who have so much anxiety they like literally cannot like get out into the world.
Speaker 3:Right, yeah, it's really really hard to see Yep, a lot of people that COVID did not help that, yeah, I have two kiddos I've got a 21 year old and an 18 year old so they were like in their prime of teenage hood Right when covid threw us all inside and created all this anxiety. And my kids are pretty anxiety prone and like that's something that, like I wish we weren't in that situation, because it did kind of stunt their ability to take some more risks, try new things, get out there, you know, yeah, and the best thing I did was, like in 2022, I left working from home and I came back to an office and they were left alone. Thank God, you know, yeah, because just being there made it so easy for all of us for me to just do the things or, you know, answer the questions and and then they started just relying on themselves so much more. Thank God, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, we were in different, so our kids were very little. So, like COVID was stressful for us but we were. We were both in the part and I won't speak for Jenny but where we were like back to working. We had been for like a while but it was stressful to balance the in and out of everything and so we like to come back home for a second and like regroup and kind of reassess priorities and like values, whatever. We were like there's a part of me like this is crazy. And then part of me was like I never want to leave this house again. Yeah, I was like these people are ready.
Speaker 1:I want to stay in my own little web and get back to like the core family unit. I don't want to feel everyone going out in 19 directions, but our babies were little like in preschool and like okay, and so that was like a very stressful time just to be leaving the house.
Speaker 1:So I was like, oh darn, we can't leave. I mean it was awful in some ways. But there's a part of me like I mean, my, I know, I loved it, I like it. Maybe it's just like even frosting in her underwear on the couch watching cartoons for like three months straight. I was like, oh, it was very cozy.
Speaker 3:I worked a ridiculous amount, but I was still in the house. I bet In your field.
Speaker 1:I'm sure you were slammed. It was so bad. It was nice to be able to provide support. I think you might have definitely been in the harder I have a sister-in-law that's a therapist and the harder. I have a sister-in-law that's a therapist and like the wearing of everybody's stuff.
Speaker 3:even though you guys do a good job, compartmentalizing is still kind of a lot, I mean it was hard, right, cause the stuff that my clients were feeling I was also experiencing and that's not always the case, right, sometimes. Right yeah, it was so intense and I just kept like adding people in. I'm like I can see you, nothing's going on. And then I'm like, oh, I've eliminated any bit of like free time during my day ever, oops, you know yeah that was bad.
Speaker 1:You're like trying to help, you're a helper, you're trying to help all the people and we're all like I'm on fire right, right I had to make.
Speaker 3:I had to, like, scale that back after like a year, though it was crazy, yeah, the crazy time, yeah.
Speaker 2:So as we gear up for the pre. Yeah, I call it pre-teen because we're we're here, I mean just before we were somebody younger.
Speaker 1:One wants the uggs yeah oh me yeah so, yes, she wanted the fake uggs. She knew no one of the fake uggs, yeah. So here's what happened. No, no. My oldest asked for the like whatever the I don't even know the name the slip-on uggs that everybody wears, my. She asked for those for christmas. She asked for two things in a name brand, which, of course, I'm actually thrilled to be out of some of the toy stage, but I'm like also, my kids wear Crocs 24 seven. So I'm like this is basically your winter Crocs. So I'm actually pretty open-minded to this idea, but my youngest one was like I definitely don't want that. However, after seeing her sister with them for a month and a half, she was like is there a cheap version?
Speaker 1:and I'm like, yes we make uggs and so like she tells everyone, even when people like they're so cute. She's like they're fake. Oh, like she couldn't, she is like the most anti, whatever. Yeah, it's like exactly she wanted. But so funny, because they're just such different people in this way.
Speaker 2:But we're there, we're in the preteen. Oh well, my friends have this oh yeah, it's really hard.
Speaker 3:I know, so you're wanting to know what I think of that.
Speaker 2:Prep us for how to. Not because I'm not dreading it. I'm going to be honest with you. I welcome that. I have loved every phase of life thus far, so praying that that continues.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's really about do I love the person in front of me or do I love the age that they are, you know like, or what what they're giving me, you know, and if you just stay person centered, it really helps, you know.
Speaker 3:Yeah, things shift and I think the most important thing that we have to do is notice our own crap bubbling up Right. Yeah, you know, because it's hard when we were becoming preteens and teenagers and we have our own experience of that with whatever our parents happen to be like in the world around us happen to be like. It is a hard time, like the brain's going insane in development and it's not even so really helpful to know. Is that they're? They're like limbic system and all that right, the emotion center is starting to like really blossom, right, and so all of a sudden, our you know kids are now tweens and teens and they're starting to like have much stronger, more intense experiences emotionally, while that frontal lobe right here of the brain, which is about reason and logic, is just kind of not moving and growing yet at all.
Speaker 1:I mean, that's evil, like yeah, just like just taking it easy, taking a little lunch break. Yeah, emotional blossom super helpful it is. It's just like just taking it easy, taking a little lunch break. Yeah, emotional blossom super helpful it is.
Speaker 3:It's weird, weird design. Maybe it is just to, like, force us parents to try to be nice to our kids.
Speaker 3:I don't know, because we didn't know all this for a long time either, but yeah that emotion center is going crazy and they don't have the counter, counteracting, balancing part Right, and neither did we, right. So there's a lot, of, a lot of room to be triggered or to just be pissed off that our kids not doing what we did Right, like if we're used to, you know, growing up, and like you know, if the authority figure is like yo, stop right, or enough, we kind of were conditioned to stop right. Yes, not everyone right, but if we were, then we want our kid to do that too, even though they haven't grown up with the same concept of how do we do these things? Right, our kids are much more relational. Right, our kids are much more relational. They are about you know, knowing you, feeling respected, feeling like they matter. This is what we've, you know, moved on to as a society, right, but then, when it comes to, you know, tamping down behavior, we want it to switch back to be like we're in charge and we need to shut it all down and they need to listen to us. Back, to be like we're in charge and we need to shut it all down and they, they need to listen to us.
Speaker 3:So, giving you know, paying attention to like, okay, I'm really getting angry what the hell's up with me, right, big time. And a lot, of, a lot of the clients that come to the coaching are really, really worried, so worried about their kid, like not making it, you know, and I'm like, okay, what is, what is that? And we really try to define success differently because boy is like so letting ourselves off the hook a bit, knowing ourselves, knowing that, like if I'm coming from a pissed off, like I didn't do it that way and I'm sick of this, and I want you to just, anytime we say, just watch out right to ourselves, I want you to just anytime we say, just watch out right To ourselves, I want you to just do it Blah, blah, blah. Right, we got to take a minute, we got to give it some time and turn ourselves back into the researcher, like I want to know what's going on, right, I want to understand, I want to at least see what's generating, you know, the behavior.
Speaker 2:Well, and I feel like you hit the I mean just something that you said that kind of really resonated is about kids feeling respected. I feel like we don't ever talk about that, Right, I feel like we hold kids to these standards that, like me and Rebecca wouldn't hold each other to, or me and my husband wouldn't, that's all it's like. Oh well, you're 10, so I'm going to treat you. I don't know. I don't that respective thing, that is, we don't talk about that often.
Speaker 3:Ever you got to respect, like A, who they are, what their personality is, the stuff that matters to them, the stuff that's fearful to them and not based on all kinds of things, what they've been through or what they hear, or what they've witnessed, or what their own personality makes that's their quirk, right, you know. You have to respect those things about them. We have to respect their brain development, development knowing that they don't have like logic and reasoning nailed down at all until they're like 25. You know, yeah, so like society named 18 is this you're an adult and it's like the worst thing ever because, like it's impossible to do reason and thinking and you know high level understanding until you're about 25.
Speaker 2:Meanwhile I had friends get married at 23. Yeah, I was going to say like those don't count.
Speaker 3:Like those don't count. Yeah, a learning process, right? We don't know who we are. We haven't fully developed. We don't have any real concepts, right, we don't know who we are, we haven't fully developed. We don't have any real concepts, right? We know we have a lot of emotion flowing, you know. So, yeah, passion, let's get married, yeah, so, a lot of like, what's customary and kind of expected doesn't match what we now know about how the brain functions, right. But when we know we got to allow that to matter, right. So, yeah, just trying to get yourself to a stance of, okay, I'm human. I'm freaking out because, you know, I feel like a bad mom if my kid's not. I mean, that's a biggie. I'm a bad mom if my kid's not doing all the things Right.
Speaker 1:I feel like I'm a bad mom when I like get overstimulated. That's when I'm like God, I just thought, cause I like do get kind of maxed out. You know, like I'm, that's you. I have two girls and they're like buried. And then I am like, okay, we've been, we've made it all the way to like this part of the day. And then I'm like, oh my God, okay.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and that's. There's nothing bad about that. Like you can use that to show your kids that you're human and that you're going to figure out how to take care of yourself. How wonderful is that to share with your kids, right, yeah, you know, and whatever, whatever works for you, I would. You know, I'm similar. I have moments, you know, and I'm just like I need my, I need 30 minutes of quiet. You guys do whatever. I mean, mine are older now, but like they really risk. We really respect that in each other. My kids are both introverts I'm not an introvert, but like we understand getting maxed out with you know, I usually find now that I've spent more time like really thinking about it.
Speaker 1:it typically happens when I have not when I'm trying to be, because I only have them, you know, every other week. It'd be fully available for the entire time that they're here. That's when I start to get maxed and I'm just like, okay, wait, like this is, and they'll come here and unload a week's worth of whatever, and I'm like totally prepared for that. And then the days start happening and then, it usually bubbles over when I like haven't created any space for myself.
Speaker 3:Right, and what again? You're teaching them, yes, you're going to want them to learn that it's okay to create space for themselves. You have two girls, right? Yeah, there's a really interesting statistic that you know the lore around mothers of teenagers is even worse than you know. Like of teenage girls is even worse. Moms of all teenagers. The really cool thing that that they they start to look at their mom right and go okay, this is how a woman that I'm growing into, this is how a woman works in the world. Oh, my God, I hate her because I don't want to be that. I don't want it. They have enough wisdom right to be. Like that sucks, yeah. So it's really helpful to show all our kids, but especially girls, that, like we don't want to like, lead them to a sucky life where we don't take care of ourselves, we don't consider ourselves, we don't take 10, 15 minutes that we might need Right.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:You know, or that we're just always pulled in a million directions and we get really overstimulated and they hate life and whatever you know, like that's a problem, and so they hate, hate us. And then the sad part too is then when they get through kind of teenagehood, they just generally kind of assimilate and are like, oh well, that's just how it is to be, yeah, and then they like you again because they need you to help you and they feel bad.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's awful. Yeah, that is awful. So you're not a bad mom If you're like you know what guys? Once a day, mom gets an hour of downtime, whatever. It is half an hour, you know, and I love you and I'll see you at the end of it and I will be so much more chill what a great learning.
Speaker 2:My daughter now is learning like, because when I get really overwhelmed I cry and so she's like what's wrong with you? What's wrong?
Speaker 3:with you.
Speaker 2:I was like I'm just about to break, it's fine, it's totally normal. And then she's like do you have your period? I'm like, no, I don't have my period, I'm just overwhelmed.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so we don't want them to feel like, you know getting to the point of breaking is normal. So we don't want them to feel like you know getting to the point of breaking is normal. Right, we want to be like we got to take care of ourselves y'all. You know, yeah, take care, we got to and we want to teach them that. You know there's a lot of pressure on teenagers and you know I often see you've got like the super duper, do goodgooders, you know acing, everything and every freaking activity. And you know I get to talk to those kids and they're like burned out and suicidal almost you know, suicidal.
Speaker 2:That's terrible, you know so it goes back to all that pressure we just put on these kids. I mean, I think again we just we hold them to a higher standard. I mean, you know adults it's like oh well, don't take your work home with you if you can avoid. You know you need to practice self-care and all these things, but like when it's kids, it's like well, you need to go to school from 730 until 330. Go do sports until eight o'clock, then do two hours until eight o'clock hours of homework, make straight.
Speaker 2:A's get right. It's like we get mad at them if they don't do it. I don't, it's just I don't understand. And then we're like oh, why do our kids have anxiety? You know, why is the suicide so right? Oh, it's social media. It's like no dude, like it's, it's society and what we're doing to these kids.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and any way, way to break it down to what's really important right now, what do we want to focus on as an ability to grow as a child? They're children, they really are children, and we treat them like superstars, and if they don't do all those things, they pretty much suck and we you know I'm very parents put pressure on their kids to do things that they wish that they had done.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, I see a lot of that. Like yeah, I got this word sports, can you get this far in sports? Or like, right, we're in the gymnastics world and there's a lot of parents who like even understand, like the judging right. Did you get to the part where you understand how the scores come? Like, yeah, what I never want to know that much about my kids for, like, yeah, where is the score? I'm not gonna like fight the judges, I'm not gonna argue with your coach, yeah.
Speaker 3:These are kids. They're freaking, developing. They're just figuring out how their bodies work and what matters to them.
Speaker 1:One of my jobs is still to be the mom. We had an issue last week with a coach who came down pretty hard on my oldest. They were doing a new skill my oldest, the only person that landed it. However, she failed to do one part of however they were supposed to land it and, for whatever reason, our coach lost control. Wow, yeah, I'm like you're the only one that landed it and I wasn't there. It was my husband's week, but I heard about it immediately from a mom that I trust. Yeah, and then the girls were coming here in the morning because it's picture day and I was doing their hair before school.
Speaker 3:Sure.
Speaker 1:Immediately my oldest folks and she's like guess who cried at gymnastics yesterday. I was like oh who? She was like me and I was like what happened? She was like me and I was like what happened and she told me the story and I was like what I'm going to find it very hard to support Right Is an adult asking you to practice self-control when they are clearly actively losing?
Speaker 3:their own.
Speaker 1:Right, so I'm not even going to worry about that. Like, that sounds wild. It looks wild, did it feel wild? And she was like yep, I'm like. And there you go. Good, yeah, I would think twice about that. I'm like that person, for whatever reason. Coffee kids coaching, right, clearly was not under control in that situation, right, well, I don't think there was a single thing that you could have done. Right, that person needs to go home and reflect. As far as I'm concerned, you did a wonderful job and I am going to pay that any money. And in fact, this person's lost a little bit of credibility. For me, I'm the mom, I'm the boss, I pay for those lessons. If I need to go in, I will, but in the meantime, our lesson here is help your kid, right, help your kid. Put it in perspective. And if an adult asked you for something that they can't deliver, I wouldn't really worry about that too much, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, a lot of like hypocritical kind of stuff and and that's really hard to swallow and it's, I think it comes down to like there's going to be a lot of opportunities for our kids. Obviously, right, there are many, many, many vast like expectations. No one can meet all of them all the time, you know, and and for you and your kid to know each other well enough and like identify, like, what matters to us the most, you know, and and if a coach like is feeling all the pressure, right, yeah, of whatever like I know, like of what, like level three winning, you know there's a lot of pressure.
Speaker 3:Some people really really are into winning and can't function without it, and that is their own stuff and I wish they'd figure it out right, because it's a lot more fun to just do stuff and win and lose, but you know well that's my thing too.
Speaker 1:I'm like somebody's always going to be better than you like. The beauty of sports is like them learning exactly that somebody's going to be. I'm like I got bad news for you in life, like if you compare yourself your entire life, there is literally the beauty of life if someone's always going to be shittier and someone's always going to be better, and if and if you build yourself up looking at the person who's shitty, then honestly that's a you problem, and if you worry too much about the person who's better, that's also going to be a you problem. You've got to stay in your lane, dude. Don't worry about that stuff. Be yourself.
Speaker 3:Be yourself. Figure out what that is Value the hell out of it. Right, figure out what that is Value the hell out of it and allow yourself to have areas where you suck. You know I suck at organizing.
Speaker 2:Okay, we're dealing with that. In my house. My daughter is a perfectionist. She's just like well, I just can't do that. I'm like, so I'm like I can't do it either. Who can do everything? I'm like you'm like I can't do it either. Like, yeah, who can do everything? Who can do I do everything? Right? I'm like you can draw a lot better than I can. I can draw a stick man. That's all I got. I'm not about it.
Speaker 3:Stick man, yeah just you're like, that's me and I have good stuff in other areas. Let's remember that, right. Yeah, yeah, we're still learning. Issue is really tough.
Speaker 1:Oh, I mean, I've put myself obviously in a lot of places in the last year and a half where I'm having to do stuff that I'm not good at putting up, you know, like dog gates, and we had to buy a drill. I didn't have a drill and we have this like puppy and my youngest was like man.
Speaker 3:This is kind of hard to watch, You're like watch, you know this is kind of hard to watch. I mean, tell me I'm like dude, get it done, or did you need help did?
Speaker 1:it work, oh yeah. But like I mean it's pretty sketchy, like there's three or four up and like I stripped a million screws, like at one point I was using my body weight to just shove it into the wall. She's like how is that coming out? I'm like I don't know. Papa's gonna have to figure that out. When we leave here, like right but you were.
Speaker 3:You figured stuff out the whole way by screwing up, right? Yeah?
Speaker 1:you were like yeah that doesn't work.
Speaker 3:Moving on next.
Speaker 1:Oh, my oldest was like sitting back with like an ice cream, like a ben and jerry's, and she's like one of my favorite things is watching you do stuff you don't know how to do, and I was like rude right. Like like they were like watching it like it was a tv show. I was like you're welcome to help, both of you guys can read and they're like this is like watching it, like it was a tv show. I was like you're welcome to help both of you guys can read and they're like this is too good, it's interesting though right, that's the beauty.
Speaker 3:Oh, people don't know how to do everything. Brains work so differently and, yeah, when you get a drill, if no one's taught you, you're gonna learn by screwing up yeah, they're like boys.
Speaker 1:Should we go into the boys downstairs? I was like no, that's good. Good, yeah, you don't need that, that's awesome meanwhile, like one day later, they were like what were you guys doing upstairs? You should have asked us for help. And my oldest like told you yep, I'm like, then I'm. Am I teaching them not to ask for help? You know like my mind wanders and like I know, but it's like you can go on for days in this rabbit hole. Like, should we have asked for help? Should I have taught them that that's okay?
Speaker 3:Like I don't know. Yeah, it's always a balance. I mean, I do get to a point where like okay, this is moot, it's not working. Fuck yeah, I'm gonna ask for help. That's, it's silly not to right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I definitely get to the point like I'm over this, yeah, but I just over do that too and just be like I'm not asking for help and then like things suck that was me yesterday with e-learning infractions.
Speaker 2:I was like you're going to have to wait until your dad gets home. I can't help you here. I'm sorry, I can't do it English. Sure, let me help you. Happy to help Spelling, I'm your girl, yeah.
Speaker 1:I was like Alexa and I asked her the question. I was like never do that, by the way, but we got to move on. We can't be here all day, right, exactly, and they were laughing.
Speaker 2:I'm like moving right along, right, that's awesome. So where can our listeners?
Speaker 3:find you on all the things. Yeah, so what I've created out of all this is a two things. I have a Facebook group that people can. If you've just got to fill out the questions and agree to the group rules, I'll let you write in. People can join and I have like live trainings up there. I have posts. I've got, you know people write in and ask questions. So there's a lot of support just around, like boundaries with your teenager or you know the whole, like you know productivity versus you know living life and things like that. So that's all there.
Speaker 3:And I'm also been working on a, an entire course that people can buy, and what's cool about it is it's a 12 week course. It goes in depth, right On, like what's going on with us, what are the expectations of our teens, what's going on with them? It's really, really informative. It does challenge mom quite a bit, which I think is good because we can only change ourselves right. It challenges, but it also like part of the challenge is like letting ourselves off the hook you know what I mean and like don't let every little thing. So that is chock full. And then once a week, I actually meet with the group of moms who are taking the course and we I do a you know, real time, real kid. Let's talk about what's going on with you coaching hour, which is so much fun And's. It's really helpful to just help. And I have like a every week I have a reflection for people to kind of bring it into their own exact life so they can kind of bring in what they're learning. So I've got people in that course who are like they're they're the biggest funny thing they're saying is like can you make a worksheet that we can hand out to like our husband or our mother, our mother, so they know why we're doing what we're doing? So I've incorporated some of that. It's really good, that's great, it is, but it's working like like moms are really seeing a big, big change and they're just feeling so much better with knowing their kid and having a relationship with them and seeing the influence that just comes from that.
Speaker 3:So, yeah, so the easiest way to get to me is on Facebook. I've got that group but you can just go right to my anything Peggy Daravan coaching. The group is the mom to teen relationship. But if you just go to my, just just, even if you just punch Peggy Daravan into Facebook. It'll bring you to all you know, everywhere you might want to go. Yeah, easiest thing. And I'm on Instagram. Peggy Daravan, coaching is perfect. Okay, yeah, easy to find. I'm out there. I would love to link all of that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so good. Peggy like how helpful.
Speaker 3:Yay, that's great. I loved it. I love talking to you guys. Just the real questions and all of it. It's a big topic. That's the only way we know how to be is real, but it does not have a lot of info out there. It really is a very dark hole kind of space, so I'm really glad to be in there just opening that up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love it. Anything that's stigmatized we're all about like anything that makes me feel shame or feels like a stigma, I'm like, no, we should open that up. There's no way that like this whole like being a girl is pretty isolating if you let it be, whether it's like as a team or as a mom or as a working mom, I mean they really like you can get down the rabbit hole pretty isolated if you let yourself. So we're all about like that's not happening here. Yep, I love it.
Speaker 3:Don't want that either. That's great.
Speaker 1:No, it's not good for anyone. Thank you so much for the work.
Speaker 2:Thank you so very much.
Speaker 3:It was a pleasure You'll have to come back as we get into the teenage years.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, all right, bye, guys, thanks again. Thanks so much for tuning in, guys, and we will see you next week.