Discover the nuanced dance of masculinity and femininity as my insightful conversation with Sammy unveils the subtle yet powerful traits that weave through our everyday lives. This episode promises to guide you through understanding the delicate balance of gender dynamics, breaking down the walls of toxic masculinity, and celebrating the strength found in healthy masculine virtues. From the exploration of societal pressures that mold men's emotional expression to the acknowledgment of feminine qualities that could lead to a more harmonious world, we bring to light the transformative power of self-awareness and balanced relationships.
Embark on a journey through the labyrinth of control, trust, and gender roles as we dissect the differences between assertive leadership and overbearing dominance. Sammy and I tackle the often invisible mental load carried within household management, advocating for equitable task sharing as a catalyst for positive change. We also confront the shadows of toxic femininity, encouraging a dialogue around manipulation and the importance of self-love. Our candid exchange, peppered with the reality of technical mishaps, provides a raw and authentic glimpse into the dynamics of our discussion.
email: FlippedMindsetPodcast@gmail.com
Facebook: Flipped Mindset Podcast
Discover the nuanced dance of masculinity and femininity as my insightful conversation with Sammy unveils the subtle yet powerful traits that weave through our everyday lives. This episode promises to guide you through understanding the delicate balance of gender dynamics, breaking down the walls of toxic masculinity, and celebrating the strength found in healthy masculine virtues. From the exploration of societal pressures that mold men's emotional expression to the acknowledgment of feminine qualities that could lead to a more harmonious world, we bring to light the transformative power of self-awareness and balanced relationships.
Embark on a journey through the labyrinth of control, trust, and gender roles as we dissect the differences between assertive leadership and overbearing dominance. Sammy and I tackle the often invisible mental load carried within household management, advocating for equitable task sharing as a catalyst for positive change. We also confront the shadows of toxic femininity, encouraging a dialogue around manipulation and the importance of self-love. Our candid exchange, peppered with the reality of technical mishaps, provides a raw and authentic glimpse into the dynamics of our discussion.
email: FlippedMindsetPodcast@gmail.com
Facebook: Flipped Mindset Podcast
Welcome to the flipped mindset podcast. Hi, I'm Janet and I'm Sammy. Welcome to my podcast, where I believe that you change your mindset, you change your life, and we are here today with Sandy and we're in a restaurant, so if you hear the background noise, that's what that is.
Speaker 2:We're keeping it real, so yeah, authentic.
Speaker 1:That's what it's all about Keeping it real and authentic. So yeah, so I finally talked to my friend Sam. Did you say Sammy?
Speaker 2:I go by. Sammy, you go by, sammy, so is that what I'm supposed to call it, because I know you as.
Speaker 1:Sammy, so you know, you can come with me. I'm so confused now, like why are you springing this on me now? So what am I supposed to call you? We're keeping it real, so should I call you Sandy or Sammy, okay, whatever you're comfortable with.
Speaker 2:What are you comfortable with? Actually, you have known me since like Sandy, so yeah, you can call me Sandy.
Speaker 1:I can call you Sandy. I'm a grandfathered in. How do you want to do it? I'll try to call you Sandy. Okay, this is no. Call me Sandy. Call you Sandy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay, that's what I'm used to. I've been grandfathered in.
Speaker 1:All right, cool, all right, it's either doing some stuff at the restaurant, okay. So today's topic some men Sandy have been talking about.
Speaker 2:I'm going to make it weird. I'm going to make it weird.
Speaker 1:Because that's not what I do. I'm going to make it weird. All right, we're going to talk about masculinity and sheminity, and then we're going to talk about the toxic like it being toxic on both sides, actually, yeah. So where would you like to start in this? Because there's so much.
Speaker 2:There's so much and we've already had like hours of conversation about this already that we did not record. Right so it's a conversation that's come up a lot between us, right? So we kind of like wanted to talk about it from the talk, but it started anywhere. Honestly, what is male?
Speaker 1:toxicity. It's lower toxic masculinity. But one of the things that I'm finding and I'm realizing is everybody has masculine traits and feminine traits. It's in both, it's in both, and then you know so, like you could be in your feminine or your masculine, depending on either. One could be that way, and so then there's the whole. Then you start talking about toxic masculinity. That's like a huge thing that's out there now and everybody's talking about it and there's different ways to look at it. Like, for me, the way I view it is toxic masculinity is what? Closer, okay, here's my sound guy going. You need to be closer to your mouth? Okay, well, but mine's louder than yours.
Speaker 2:I don't think if you put yours to your shirt it'll be fine.
Speaker 1:We're trying to figure out the difference.
Speaker 2:We gave her the feminine, my masculine, whatever, oh my gosh it's going to be a thing now.
Speaker 1:I mean, this is such an interesting conversation to have because we're talking about like well, for me I think toxic masculinity. It gets talked about in being. What am I trying to think? Real quick, there's so much stuff going on.
Speaker 2:You're describing toxic masculinity, Toxic masculinity.
Speaker 1:So for me, toxic masculinity comes from and I've seen things where people talk about this like it's the lack of masculinity so it comes from a place of insecurities. So if I'm insecure in who I am, then I'm going to be like, basically, that toxic masculinity is like oh, people should just listen to me, Like my mate should listen to what I'm saying and do what I say without no questions asked, and that is not. That's not healthy.
Speaker 2:That's toxic. That comes from the place of insecurity. I hear some.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it comes from insecurities and so then like, but there is a such thing as a healthy masculinity. I don't know that. You know, and I think that's where like, and I think that's where like. There's a lot of things that are going on because women, most women they want to be in there, feminine. You know, we're more like when we're in our feminine energy. We are more creative, we are more nurturing, we are more loving. We don't have to be like, you know, that's kind of like our will house. That's where we want to be, that's where like. So when we have somebody that's masculine in our life, now here's one note caveat is you can be in your feminine without having a masculine man in your life. So we're just going to say that right off. You know, like you don't have to have you don't, and vice versa.
Speaker 1:You do not have to have a man in your life too, but you have to realize that if you're in your masculine, if you're like, so your masculine side would be like I can do everything. I'm going to go, you know, like I'm building things and do stuff, like I'm more in the masculine side of side of things and not in my feminine, then it's going to be really hard for you to attract a man, because a man isn't going to want to be with somebody that's masculine, or a masculine man would want to be with a masculine woman.
Speaker 2:That's just an innate behavior.
Speaker 1:It's an innate behavior, yeah, and so another way I've seen it explained is that, like because in our society men aren't really like, don't show emotions, and you know those kind of things. So they like the feminine women and their feminine showing emotion, kind of like, allows them to have the able to be in like, allow them to kind of I don't know the right way to say this, but you know it's like a masculine man if he knows how to lead properly. Lead, not control, lead in a secure way, lead and provide. Provide a safe place. It's almost like providing a safe place for the woman to be able to express her feelings, not trying to fix them, but give her a safe place to express them and be that the more that you are in that space for her, the more she can be in her feminine, the more she's in the feminine.
Speaker 1:The men love feminine women. They love because then it kind of counterbalances. It's that yin and yang like we were talking about yin and yang. So in their masculine it's kind of like they can like, oh, now they can like, feel comfortable to show their emotions or they're being able to show kind of that little bit of their vulnerable side and be safe as well. So they kind of play on each other. Yeah, they balance each other out, they balance each other out.
Speaker 2:And here's the thing right you can have equity without being equal, and I think a lot of people relate equity to being equal.
Speaker 1:We are not equal as a species right.
Speaker 2:They are innate differences between men and women physically, emotionally, spiritually, all of that and so we need to highlight our strengths and work together and kind of, like you said, like yin and yang have a balance there rather than just trying to outcomplete each other. And they're videoing that honestly.
Speaker 1:There's web, there's beauty in that, oh yeah, Well, that whole thing, like everybody going around, it's like a 50-50. I don't believe there's a way to be 50-50 because, like you said, we're different and we're not in competition. It's kind of like like here's what you do to help me and then this is what I do to help you, and then we work together on it versus you know the typical, I guess, male female roles of like the household and all that kind of stuff. You know, yeah, and I think that's what leads to a lot of the disagreements and the craziness that happen. So one of the other things that I come across is, like you know how they always say like men to be the providers for the women. So this is from a woman's perspective. It's being a provider doesn't necessarily mean bringing the money in. It can be bringing the money in, but it's also providing a place for her to feel safe, Safe yeah.
Speaker 1:A place for her to be able to express her feelings and not be judged or put down or manipulated or anything like that. Where she can freely do that, then she can be in her feminine more, and so I think sometimes that gets, yeah.
Speaker 2:And on the flip side of that, women also need to do that for men you know, provide a safe space. But, I'm not necessarily providing it, like you said, in the physical context, of providing a theoretical construct where men also feel safe, and that's where you come together and have that union, have that balance right. So it's a matter of just working together and not just, like I said, arguing each other.
Speaker 1:Well, and so there's things like that, like understanding that you know, understanding the differences in men and women, and one is like so me and you have talked about this before too like the whole thing of women are like oh, I want them to express his emotions more. And then, as soon as he expresses emotions, they're like what are you doing? Like we get mad at them.
Speaker 2:How about that?
Speaker 1:experience, right, yeah, right, yeah. I've heard of a few people that's had that right and it's kind of like, and so it's weird that that phenomenon happens, like we want them to be so that way, and then we get. Then we kind of like, ooh, why are you? Like, it's weird.
Speaker 1:But then the other thing you got to think about too is the way women process their emotions and stress is by talking and communicating about them, and one of the ways that guys do they need to have time alone. First they got to process. They usually do it more in silence and to themselves, or they might do a little bit but not a lot. So that, so that there you've got to understand in your partner, I guess in a way, is like how do I show up for you? I think that's always a powerful question and I use it with my kids. I was talking about that earlier is, you know, it's like, it's like, if I can come at it and go, how can I show up for you? Like, when you're having a hard time, what's the best way I can support you? I know some men just want to know that the woman's there for them.
Speaker 1:That they got their back the loyalty, like some men love the loyalty in it. So it's like yeah, how can I, how can I show up for you? How best can I show up for you that way when you're having this, like when you do, show me the emotion, now I know how to show up for that, which I think is important. So you're watching, yeah, I think so.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think mine's a lot.
Speaker 1:I know, but mine's loud and yours is, see, look at me and your your way, yeah, so. But yeah, so I'm gonna hear your thoughts because, like this is why I wanted you know, to have the men's man's point of view or your point of view on this whole thing.
Speaker 2:I think we have gone into a place in society where I kind of talked about this earlier, you know where male toxicity and toxic masculinity has been described as something that it's not Just because a man maybe takes charge. There's a difference between taking charge and being controlled right, and that's why we have different words in our language in all languages where we can describe different things, but it's a matter of describing each and each term like toxic masculinity, and there's also such a thing I believe is toxic femininity right and we don't talk about that.
Speaker 2:We just talk about toxic masculinity and even then going deeper into that and discussing what exactly is toxic and masculinity, what exactly is toxic? Femininity is taking charge and toxic masculinity, or is it someone who wants everyone to do what they want to do with that toxic masculinity? Well, I would say the latter right, because that's comes, like you said, from the place of insecurity and from the place of they're not sure about themselves and they want to feel in control. Well, that is toxic masculinity.
Speaker 2:But if a person or a guy is just taking charge. You know, like you said, a lot of women, even though they may be afraid to say that right now, in the current climate, maybe, I think they kind of do want that.
Speaker 1:So I want to add on to that in that, like, when he takes control, he is aware of and considers everybody Like, so he's considering what's best for his partner.
Speaker 1:When he's taking control or he's taking charge of the situation, then she's going to follow him because she can trust him, because she knows he has her best interest at heart, and I think that's part of that. Leading is like I can hand over my heart to him and he's going to lead us where it's going to be best for both of us. He's going to. He has me taking care of, whereas if I, whereas the guy just wants to control which I'm talking from my experiences and my marriages and stuff right, it was just like oh, it was whatever suited him and what he wanted. And that's different than I. Don't trust that because I don't feel like I'm being taken in consideration. So, but if you can do that, like, oh, it's a whole thing, like you know, it could be some simple things like oh, you know, I'm taking charge of where we're going to go eat. Be like hey, we're going to go have steak or chicken. What do you want tonight? You know, giving us like, instead of us having to do the whole thing. Or maybe listening to us saying man, I was, you know, I've really been craving Chinese food lately and you go hey, we're going to go on a date Friday night and we're going to go have Chinese. Like that's taking charge and that's being because I'm listening to what my partner wants and listening to what she needs and I'm going to make that happen for her, versus going what do you want to go eat tonight? Oh, just tell me what to do and I'll do it.
Speaker 1:It's also like in household chores and stuff like that, like a woman you know I don't know if you've heard of like the mental load, like there's a thing that's a mental load, that's you've got the physical load and a mental load and the woman usually takes on a lot of the mental load of a household, and so, like some of that, and the guy goes well, if you just tell me what to do, I'll do it. Well, the thing is is like that's extra mental load on the woman because now she has to come up with a list for you Instead of going hey, you live in this house too. You know dishes have to be done, you know laundry has to be done, you know the kids have bath times and all this kinds of things. So it's like the man going, hey, you know what. I come into the house I realized my wife or my partner is frazzled and she's stressed or she's had a hard day at work or whatever. It's me taking on those responsibilities so she doesn't have to.
Speaker 1:Or like, hey, I'm going to do this, you can go do this, or you take care of this part, I'll take care of this part. Instead of like give me a list of what's due and I'll do it. It's taking charge of. I know what needs to be done, I'm going to do something, or you know things like that. And those get less than that mental load. Now she's going to be able to be inner feminine more. Now she's going to be more appreciative, more loving, more you know that kind of thing and be what you need to do, instead of her being inner within. I don't know.
Speaker 2:A little tangent there but no, I like that because it explains a little bit more about what is the difference between being controlling and trying to be so that's good, yeah, so let's describe maybe toxic femininity a little bit. So from what was that?
Speaker 1:So my opinion on toxic femininity is again something that comes from insecurities in the woman and it's, when you're trying to manipulate a situation, a lot of manipulation. So, on both sides, because what it to me this is my opinion on what this looks like is because if I'm in a spot where I'm needing something or I have a want, you know I have a need that's not met and you're in and I want you to meet it and I'm going to manipulate you to make sure that I get that need met. Like it's like fear based and insecurity based and so I function out of that part versus like this is a big thing for me right now. Right, like it's like teaching people self love and how to love themselves and provide what they need.
Speaker 2:So if I that's not recording either. Yeah, no, no, my name.
Speaker 1:Okay, no, mine, no hitchers again, I think that, oh yeah, they died.
Speaker 2:Hold on, are you sure? Because it's recording me now.
Speaker 1:It's recording you. Yeah, oh, I think maybe this is yeah, we'll just record my rest like this. It's gonna be bad, hi guys, so here to get really close to each other. Audio issues this is one of my biggest things, but anyway, so, but okay. So I think where was, oh, the toxic feminine a? Yeah, it's coming from a place of insecurity. And then you're going and saying and you're manipulating or controlling the situation based out of that fear of fear of rejection, fear of abandonment, fear of them doing something that's not gonna give you what you want, and I think that's where you get a lot of the jealousy. You can't do this and you know controlling what he does. That's kind of where I see a lot of that.
Speaker 2:So here's a curveball that we haven't talked about before, because let's keep it real, let's keep it authentic, like we're talking about right, and so do you feel there are certain innate Toxic traits for both genders that both genders can work on.
Speaker 1:That's like a generalization right.
Speaker 2:It is, but to a certain extent. But do you feel like there are certain, certain innate Toxic traits in each gender that we could work on, like, for example let's start off a jealousy right, I Think overall, I would say men tend to be more jealous than women. Overall, you don't agree? Well, okay so I don't agree, I think that's something.
Speaker 1:Again. I think jealousy comes from Insecurity and fear. So I think I've seen it on both sides where women are like, oh, he's always out with his friends, he's cheating on me, blah, blah, blah. They internalize and personalize a lot of what's going on, and I think that so. So I think there's a lot of things that go both ways, but maybe because of the jealousy and fear, it comes out differently because of our genders, so kind of like some of that right like so maybe, maybe it shows up differently.
Speaker 1:So we're, yeah. So I'm trying to think like for us, like Kind of what I can think of is like for men, I think one of theirs would be Shutting down, not showing emotion, controlling the situation, being like I am in charge and everybody got a listen to me, kind of thing. And then for women, it would be the backstabbing right line, manipulating, those kinds of things, you know, trying to like control situations. Don't not let them do things. You know, but I think they all stem from the same, but differently because of yeah, I don't know, there's a lot.
Speaker 2:I can give you that and again.
Speaker 1:I'm just going off of my experience and people are talking.
Speaker 2:And open Conversation about, about, about it right, open mic, open mic at at an Italian restaurant. But yeah, I mean, I think I can, I can give it that I think I do still believe that there's some innate Toxic traits between men and women, but maybe it's manifestation more so than the trade itself like.
Speaker 2:So lately, I had this conversation with a friend of mine yesterday and she and I were talking about how, maybe forgiveness that's a trait that I feel like men are more apt to, I think, forgive than women, and so, and women tend to hold, you know, more grudges, I think, but that is something I think, that's. I don't know if it comes from a place of security or if it comes from a place of this, like manifestation, but but there are traits, I feel like that, that embody toxic masculinity and toxic femininity that we should work on as as different genders. What do you think of that?
Speaker 1:well, yeah, okay. So first let me talk about the forgiveness thing and what I think it is. The differences is, men tend to want peace, so they tend to forgive easier than women and women feel like they're like. I think it has to do with again it comes, goes down to more of a root cause and how it manifests, right. So it's kind of like, oh, if I don't feel heard, I don't feel listened to, I don't feel like he's paying attention or really understanding, he's just kind of like, oh, I just don't, just, I just want it to be gone. So I don't have to deal with the friction and I think it stems somewhere from that, like how we do things.
Speaker 1:But For things to work on, I think the thing is, is what we got to do? Is it's not about like passing blame or any of that stuff. It is doing your own work. So, like I'm going to be, I'm gonna take care of me For you and you're gonna take care of you for me. It's not me taking care of you and you taking care of me, it's we've got to take care of ourselves and when we love ourselves and take care of ourselves and feed into ourselves, now we're pouring from a full cup. Now I can pour into you. And now you taking care of yourself and loving yourself and Doing those things for yourself, showing up for yourself, respecting yourself, setting healthy boundaries, all these things now we can come at each other like I'm not coming at you, like I need, I need, I need, I need. I need you to help me. I need you to take care of me. If you don't take care of me, I'm gonna. I'm just gonna be.
Speaker 1:It's fear of basic right. I'm gonna be rejected, I'm gonna be abandoned. Nobody's gonna love me. If you're not doing that, then it that energy is different than me going hey, I love myself, I'm taking care of my needs. You are now you know, now you're loving me. Now I can love you properly. Now I can handle, like now, when you're upset, I don't take it personally, it's not me, it's you. Now I can step out of myself and show up for you the way I need that. You need me to show up right and vice versa, versus coming at it in a toxic way of going. I need you to do, you need to do this. You got to do this because this is really women. Feel safe as if you do these things, and then when you don't do these things, I'm not gonna feel safe. So I'm gonna be fear-based.
Speaker 2:I think that's what it's. Yeah, I mean, I do agree with that part of it. So, yes, it definitely all of this stems from. You know, I All this toxicity in our lives really stems from a place of insecurity, or most of it at least, and so it's definitely something we all need to work on. But both genders are just humans in general, right, I don't think genders even come into the play with that's concerned. I guess what I'm talking about more is, I've noticed some innate, I think, toxic traits that don't stem from security, that that I think we both could work like both species could. Both genders can work on species genders, so we can start.
Speaker 2:Well, I was mostly wanted to ask you what you thought about that first, and then I can. I can tell you what I. Okay, so, oh Well, I did bring up that one example about men being more jealous, but you're saying more manifestation. But either way, that needs to be worked on how we even manifest rights, because it comes from a place of, like you said, insecurity, and so we need to maybe Work on it Within ourselves first, and then, and then and then we can only Effect others with that. But I guess my question is do you notice any traits that Are toxic in genders more specific to one gender or the other that you feel like we need to work on? It is, but you don't think there's any? Well, let's, let's, let's approach from another angle then. So do you believe women are more caring, nurturing overall, than men?
Speaker 1:So women have inability, like women are meant to be like nurturers. So I wouldn't say necessarily more caring, because I think that's a very general term. We need to get very specific and what we're talking about. So, like women tend to be more nurturers because they are mothers, right, so it's not necessarily that they they care more, it's just they care in a different way. It comes out differently than the way it comes out with the man. So it's almost like apples to oranges, because, like so the thing is like for a man to care, like a woman to care, right with the nurturing that comes out. And we're talking being very general, because some women don't have that and some men don't, you know, and some men are. So we're just gonna.
Speaker 1:So, for the nurturing part, the caring is maybe, like you know, like I imagine a kid falling down and he's got a boo boo Right, he falls down and hurts himself. You know the mom's gonna go over there and mom's gonna go up there and hug him and pull it. You know, oh, how you doing, are you okay? You know that kind of thing when, as a man, carrying is different. So the way the man carry cares, because that's not necessarily, maybe not as an eight for him, but he might be like, he's the one, like racto's, or he's the one to like, you know, making sure that they're provided for, like that's a way of caring, caring and making sure that they have the things that they need and they're able to, you know, do the things that they need to do. So that's his way of caring, versus the way the woman carries is like a holding in the. You know, you see, you see where I'm kind of getting to so that the manifestation because it's they've.
Speaker 1:They've got different roles in different ways Of coming about this. So I wouldn't say women are more caring. They just care differently than the way the men care. So you got to come at it from the different ways, you got to be very specific. So are women more nurturing? Yes, that's kind of part of being a woman and giving birth and having kids, but guys still have their own ways of doing things as well, right? So guys are better, you know so that. So it's really hard to like Compete so that's kind of.
Speaker 2:I guess what I'm gonna is your last statement. Right there, right, there are things that each Gender is better at. So, just in that same regard, on the flip side of that coin, do you believe there's certain traits that men and women are worse at for the lack of better terms? So, in other words, are there toxic traits within ourselves that don't come in place of necessarily from insecurity? I mean, we can always chalk it up to insecurity and say, hey, a lot of it comes from insecurity, and I agree to for the most part with that.
Speaker 2:But I also believe that there's certain traits that I feel like we both you know, both genders could work on that come from a place of insecurity, but also from a place of. It's just the way maybe we were raised, I don't know. Maybe, you know, obviously men and women are raised, or boys and girls are raised, differently in every culture, and so maybe even comes from that, and maybe it's not innate. But either way, the reality of the situation is that, you know, there are certain traits that I've noticed more so in men, that need to be worked on, that are toxic, that men need to work on that, some traits and women that are more toxic and women that women need to work on, and I guess that's what I was asking.
Speaker 1:So here's my thoughts on that is yeah, of course, right, we all have like again, like you were talking about, we're raised a certain way. We have these stories that are told to us based on, like, we're limiting beliefs, or whatever you want to call them, based on the way we were raised, based on society, based on all these things that have brought us to where we're at We've. You know, we're basically a blank slate and we've learned since then. So I think the thing is, instead of going down the rabbit hole of here's the you know and maybe passing a little bit of blame, this is what you need to work on. This is what you need to work on is if we can all start to open up to understanding that the other, like trying to understand the others where they're coming from. So a good example of this I'm going to go down this rabbit hole for a second is kind of what I was just talking about and having a conversation with my son. So I have a daughter and a son, right, and so so the way that I worked with my daughter and raising her is different than what my son needs like motivation. We're talking about motivation, right? So, like the thing is is like I was trying to motivate my son the same way I'd motivate my daughter and it wasn't working. So I had to have a conversation with him, or he brought up a conversation with me. I say, mom, I don't like, this isn't going to work for me, and instead of me sitting there going, well, this is what should work, and blah, blah, blah, blah and trying to like mom, him and stuff, I sat back and asked questions and listen to him. Like, will you listen to him and understood that he had different needs than what I thought he needed, because I was coming from my like women brain, girl brain, thinking that this is what he needed.
Speaker 1:When it's really getting back in understanding, like, hey, how can I show up for you? Let me understand this? Like, okay, like, as women, we're programmed a certain way, we're taught certain things and we have certain stories in our head, and then we need to stop for a minute when we get mad at the other side. We need to go. Wait, is there something I'm missing?
Speaker 1:Or hey, let me talk to him, let me understand from his point of view, because it may be different, because sometimes it's part of that not knowing what you don't know, I don't know what, I don't know, right, and so it's kind of like that. So now I've got to come to an understanding, so then I can kind of change my approach, so now we can understand each other, and I think that's where some of it stems from too, and those eight things is I'm coming at it from a woman expecting my man to communicate with me like another woman would communicate with me, versus understanding his communication style may be different and so instead of me thinking like his style of communicating with me is toxic or wrong, it's just different, and me being open to understanding the difference, yeah, that makes complete sense, and I'm glad you went down there, robert Hall, honestly, because that's kind of what I'm talking about.
Speaker 2:So, just like men and women, like you said, approach things differently, maybe because not because necessarily it's innate, but maybe just the way we erase and that's the reality of it. I mean, in an ideal world we would hopefully raise men and women equitably and equally, but that's just not the case and so women and men are raised differently and so those toxic traits that I'm talking about, right, so it's kind of what I want. I guess my you know, because I look at when I listen to podcasts, right, how can I make the world a better place? And I'm sure you look at it the same way. And so how can we change some of these toxic traits in both men and women, not just men and not just a woman, but both men and women? That maybe it's because partly inately, partly because of the way we're raised, but how can we change that? How can we move to a better future where men and women are working on themselves, like you said, like we both said earlier, and how can we get to a better place? Even you know, because what happens is, you know, and let me go into a little rabbit hole, I guess, now and a little tangent.
Speaker 2:So I was talking, like I said, about this yesterday and there was a point in my like, maybe five, six years ago, where I thought, hey, I think you know what women would be better. Women just rule the world. But now that I have a little bit more experience and have thought about it a little bit more, first of all, I don't think anyone needs to rule the world, but I don't think the solution is that women need to rule the world either, or men need to rule the world, because there's certain, I think, traits that women have and this is what I was getting at earlier that would make it just as bad as men ruling the world. You know what I mean. So people who say, well, if you give women the power and if you give them, if you give them the chance to rule the world, things will be better. I disagree now because I think there's certain traits and until we work on those traits as you know, individual genders I don't think any of that will change.
Speaker 2:So one of the traits since you brought, you know, one example was, I think, for women would be, like I said earlier, the the not being able to maybe forgive as much as men and holding a grudge a little bit more than men. I think that's something that maybe women are taught, I don't know, but it seems like in my experiences, right I, if you do, if you do something wrong, your guy friends, whether you're a woman or a man, your guy friends will typically, overall, I would say, be more prone to say, okay, I forgive you, let's move on, whereas a woman will hold that grudge forever. And that's something again that I think that's what I mean by toxic femininity, just like when we talk about toxic masculinity, about, you know, having that controlling attitude, because I think, innately, men do want to like, in some sense, control things. But we have to realize that because the way we were raised, it's not about control, it's about taking charge in a more respectful way, like you, like you said, you know, like asking, instead of having a list done for us at home, just being considerable, being thoughtful and saying you know what, I'm not doing this just to take charge. I'm doing this because it's the right thing to do and that, in essence, is taking charge and that's the right way of taking charge, right? So just like that.
Speaker 2:I think men and women can work on certain traits within themselves that either we were taught, you know, because of the way we were raised, and I think that will lead to better relationships. I think that will lead to better outcomes, because I see a lot of complaining about, you know, from men and women. Well, women are this way, well, men are this way. Well, what are we doing to correct the things in ourselves? You know there's a worse in the bible that states, you know, look at the log in your own eye like are we doing that? Are we? It's my question to everyone.