Beyond the Fourth Surgery: Finding Freedom After Spinal Fusion

Phil shares his 30-year journey through four back surgeries, from a herniated disc at age 22 to a successful spinal fusion in his fifties, proving that recovery and returning to an active lifestyle is possible with the right approach.

• Developed first herniated disc at L5-S1 at age 22 despite being very fit and active
• Underwent laminectomy followed by microdiscectomy at L4-5 four years later
• Returned to full athletic activity after surgeries, even running the LA marathon
• Successfully advocated for himself through the healthcare system to avoid lengthy delays
• Experienced third herniation requiring another microdiscectomy, followed by fusion six months later
• Found fusion recovery surprisingly manageable with proper preparation and the right surgeon
• Achieved complete pain relief following each surgery, including fusion
• Emphasizes importance of physical therapy for optimal recovery
• Advises not waiting too long for surgical intervention when clearly needed
• Recommends being in good physical condition before surgery for better outcomes

If you have a positive story of recovery from a serious back or neck injury, please visit bedbackbeyond.com and click "share your story" to be featured on the show.

Transcript

Phil 0:00

I was biking, running, doing all sorts of stuff. Everything felt great and I felt that telltale tingling and then pain right in the glute down the leg. That advanced pretty quickly.

Early Signs of Disc Problems

Dan 0:12

Welcome to Bed Back and Beyond, sharing positive stories of recovery from serious back or neck injury. Your host is CK, a fellow champion who draws on her own experience with herniated disc surgery. Join her as she talks with others who have overcome the physical and emotional trauma of a painful injury and discover for yourself how you can find hope and encouragement in recovery.

CK 0:40

Hi Phil, Thank you so much for joining me on this episode of Bed, Back and Beyond. Before we talk about all your injury stories, how about you tell us a little bit about yourself?

Phil 0:50

Certainly Thanks for having me on. My name is Phil. I live in a little town on the southeast coast of Massachusetts. I am 55 years old, remarried two kids and working primarily from home in the IT industry.

CK 1:05

Do you have the ocean nearby, then I do, right down the street. Oh nice, Does it ever get warm up there, the water?

Phil 1:13

It does. It takes a while, it takes until about July, and then July through October. It's beautiful outside of that. You don't want to be swimming around here.

CK 1:22

I'm like two hour hour and a half from the Jersey shore, so, yeah, it gets warm around July, but then that's when all the jellyfish show up and I don't want to go in.

Phil 1:31

There are a lot of jellyfish here too as well.

CK 1:35

And are you from there or did you move there?

Phil 1:37

Moved here about 20, 25 years ago, actually grew up in the mountains of Colorado and then spent 10 or 15 years in Southern California and then moved here to start a family and have kids.

CK 1:49

Nice, nice. Now, from what you sent me, it sounded like way back when, 30 some years ago, you were a very active guy. What kind of things were you into before your injury?

Phil 2:01

I played tennis almost every day, golf, a little bit of running, hiking. Yeah, I was a don't sit. Still got to be outside, want to be doing something fun and athletic all the time. So I was in excellent shape. There was no reason whatsoever for me to have a back injury, but I did.

CK 2:18

So you didn't have any kind of like back pain that was always hanging around before it. You just got suddenly hit with an injury.

Phil 2:25

Suddenly hit with an injury when I was 22, active all the time. That turned out to be a bulged disc at L5-S1 that required laminectomy surgery.

CK 2:38

And did the injury? Do you remember? Were you playing a sport or did you just wake up one morning and suddenly you had terrible pain?

Phil 2:45

It just. It was that one didn't come on right away, that one came on kind of slowly, but but it was evident that something was wrong. So I went to see a neurosurgeon right away, got an MRI and, yep, you have an injury, not from any trauma at all, Just out of nowhere. And that's that. That bared more and more true down the line when I got more herniations, also from no trauma, that told finally got my degenerative disc disease diagnosis and how did?

CK 3:12

at 22, it sounds like it was pretty easy for to get the doctor to listen to you. I've seen on the reddit community a lot of the younger guys and girls are saying I keep, keep getting waved off. You didn't experience that.

Phil 3:24

I didn't. Thankfully, I had my company that I worked for had really good health insurance. It was an EPO plan executive preferred provider, so I didn't have to go through any referrals. I just asked around who was a good neurosurgeon in LA and got this guy. He sent me for an MRI right away at the time and I think even still the insurance company still required me to go through conservative measures. So it was six weeks of physical therapy, multiple rounds of injections those didn't do anything and then right into surgery. Okay.

CK 3:58

I only had one injection, and it lasted for about two weeks, and then the pain came right back.

Phil 4:02

Yeah, back in the so back in those days. So I went through the surgery at L5S1 in 92, four years later I had another bulge disc at L4-5 and the insurance required me, before both of those surgeries, to go through rounds of three injections once a week for three weeks. So those were just straight cortisone and they were done in an outpatient, so it was just a little local numbing and they stabbed me right there in the office. Those did nothing. In fact, the second round that I got, before the four or five surgery, he added lidocaine to it, which was like cheating. That was like great. Of course I felt great because you stuck me with lidocaine. Why would you do that?

Phil 4:45

Yeah, of course, the next. That will last for like six hours and then I'm back in the pain again.

CK 4:50

So yeah, yeah. What kind of symptoms were you having at 22 that made the doctor say let's get you an MRI?

Phil 4:58

Pain right in the middle of the buttock. It's that one spot that everyone knows about. And then it starts to radiate down the outside at the at the, the L5 S1, it was down the left leg on the outside to the ankle around the calf and into the ankle, and then on the 451, four years later that was down the right side and it was the exact same thing. It starts right in the glute that one spot that everyone knows and then starts to go down the outside of the right leg and then outside of the thigh right leg and then outside of the thigh.

Phil 5:27

Now you said he did your first surgery was just the laminectomy it was. So I had two different experiences, because the first surgery was a neurosurgeon, who are known for kind of doing more fine surgical work. Orthopedic surgeons are more known for being like carpenters they do more. They just like do more. The neurosurgeon did just the laminectomy, which is just creating some space, and you leave the disc alone. So you basically left the disc herniated. It's still there. In fact, it's herniated even today. And then, four years later, the orthopedic surgeon did a microdiscectomy where he took out almost a third of it. That's the one that lasted a long time.

CK 6:03

We took out almost a third of it. That's the one that lasted a long time. So when you had the laminectomy the first time did you wake up?

Phil 6:12

pain-free or did you still have remaining symptoms? No, I did so. I've had four surgeries, each one of them. I wake up that nerve pain is completely gone. I remember the recovery of those first two surgeries in 1992 and 1996 being very easy. It was the incision pain is absolutely nothing compared to the nerve pain before. So if it was just the incision pain you'd probably be in a world of hurt, but it was comparatively so much less. It didn't bother me a bit. The the restrictions of not being able to bend, lift or twist for six or eight weeks. That becomes annoying and troublesome when you live alone. But outside of that the pain was just nothing. It was like Christmas day getting the surgery.

CK 6:50

Right. So when you had the microdiscectomy your second surgery was the microdiscectomy you said right.

Dan 6:56

Yes.

CK 6:56

Did your disc herniate further out?

Phil 6:59

It did so that the second surgery was at a different level. So the first surgery was at L5 S1 and then I herniated L4 5. That one was far worse. That one came on pretty quickly and within a few weeks I tried to get up from my couch in the morning I was down on the floor of my apartment. I literally could not get up. I had to reach from my phone. My brother came and that was horrific. That was the instance where the insurance took three to four months to just red tape, just bureaucratic stuff. Setting an appointment to even see a neurosurgeon was like two or three weeks out and then it was another month to get the MRI and then it was a month to start boss the other day and I said I don't know if I herniated a disc again.

CK 7:44

I don't know if I would go to the emergency room, because I went and they didn't even do an MRI. They said go see a pain specialist, so that was a two week wait and then he ordered the MRI, so that was another. So like why did I even go to?

Phil 8:00

the ER. That's interesting because when I went to the first console with a the nurse, the orthopedic surgeon in the practice, not the guy who actually did the surgery for my for my first visit there they're the ones who actually order the MRI, order PT, they like start the whole process. He said you're in such bad shape right now. I could admit you if you want, and then you could go through this process. Probably it would happen faster if I, if it was in the hospital at the time. You're nuts. I'm not going to spend the next month in the hospital waiting for it. If I'm going to wait, I'm going to wait at home.

CK 8:34

Yeah.

Phil 8:34

Hindsight. I probably should have done that, Cause I would have gotten that MRI a lot faster had I been hospitalized. But I just didn't want to do that sitting in the hospital.

CK 8:44

How did you deal with the idea at 20 something years old that you were going to need back surgery?

Phil 8:49

It was a no brainer to just get rid of that pain. That pain was so severe and it was keeping me from doing the active lifestyle that was just imperative to me. I just could not envision a lifestyle where I couldn't do the sports that I want to do. I do it almost every day. So if I can't do it, there has to be something to fix it now, or I'm not going to just sit and wait. I'm not going to do that.

CK 9:14

So after both surgeries did you go back to playing sports?

Phil 9:18

I did quickly, so both recoveries were very quick. After that 1996 surgery I recovered very quickly. I remember he put me through lots of home PT and I was asked to do lots of walking. At that point I was living in Southern California so I was walking on the beach and after a couple of weeks of that I'm like this just feels like I'm not doing anything. And I called him and said can I start running? And he said if you can run without pain, do whatever you can do. And I started running. That sped up the recovery because the more you move like everyone knows, the more you move, the better your recovery goes. I recovered from that and that lasted 35 years.

CK 9:52

So you were golfing, running all that.

Phil 9:55

Everything, no restrictions, doing all my sports. I ran the LA marathon. I just was active all the time. I had flare-ups Like I would have. Every few years we have a flare-up, either a minor one or a major one, that would require prednisone or another injection, but I dealt with those up until last year.

CK 10:17

But then something else happened.

Phil 10:19

Yeah, so feeling great. I got into road biking. I was biking 200 to 300 miles a week and feeling really good. And then I herniated the L4-5 in February of last year. I'm sorry, would this be the second herniation then on the L4-5 in February of last year?

CK 10:31

I'm sorry. Would this be the second herniation then on the L?

Phil 10:34

The second herniation at L4-5. Yeah, 5-1 was herniated first and it's still there and it's just. It's just herniated but not causing any pain Not causing pain, it's just there, okay.

Phil 10:43

So L4-5, I felt that telltale Again, no trauma leading up to it, I didn't have didn't fall, didn't slip, nothing like that happened. Just I felt that telltale right in the glute. I was telling my wife when we're walking every day I'm like this is not good. I know what this feels like If it starts going down the leg. I know I'm in real trouble. So I called, I started this whole insurance nightmare again. So I called my primary care doctor and he said great, I can see you, I can get you a referral for an orthopedic surgeon. My next appointment is in six weeks.

CK 11:13

Your primary care was six weeks, six weeks out.

Phil 11:16

I'm like that's not going to happen. So I found an orthopedic surgeon in my hospital group, called him directly and said I'm going to come see you. He's fine, you can see me in my next appointments in eight weeks. I'm like this is not going to work. So I went to urgent care and said I need prednisone and she gave me one. This nurse practitioner was fabulous. I said if you can hook me up with an orthopedic surgeon visit, that would be even better. And she said be right back. She came back in the room and said do you have an appointment tomorrow?

CK 11:44

Great.

Phil 11:45

Yes, all I need. I don't know this guy at all, but if he can get me hooked up with an MRI which he did. I saw him the next morning and he was like you just went to urgent care yesterday and you're seeing a neurosurgeon.

CK 12:00

So he said that just doesn't happen.

Phil 12:01

I know the system, I know how it works. He said he just did what they all do, which is, I mean, schedule you for MRI. You're going to start six weeks of physical therapy and then come back and come back and see me.

Introduction to Bed, Back and Beyond

CK 12:12

Any improvement with the physical therapy.

Phil 12:15

No, I got hooked up with the most phenomenal physical therapist ever. This guy is super, super knowledgeable. He has you told me he was. He has enough education to be a general practitioner as to be like a family doctor. He's gone through so much education. So really impressed with how much this guy knows, he was able to diagnose everything that was going on. He had access to the MRI results so he knew exactly what he could do. And then he knew within a few visits that it is not going to be productive at all to continue that, because everything he was doing was just hurting. So he said we can get past this six weeks. But if I write in my notes, here's everything I tried.

CK 12:57

And it's my medical opinion that this guy does not need does he need surgery.

Phil 13:00

Did you even consider cortisone injections again, or are you like? No, not wasting my time, yeah, I know where this goes. In the meantime, I was searching around for so I got I got a referral to this neurosurgeon a couple of towns away. I don't even know who he is, um, so I was asking around who is like, who is the guy who is the back surgeon in this area, and I was directed to this doctor that I ended up with, who is the head of neurology and the entire hospital system around here. He's who even some family members have said. I've gone to him and he's great. So I called his office and he said, just like his office said, I can see you in about six or eight weeks. And I started calling their office every morning 9.30 and being very nice and just saying, look, I'm in terrible pain. I know how this goes. I'm on a. You can put me on a cancellation list. I'm 15 minutes away. And it took about four of those phone calls before this lady said, okay, we'll see you tomorrow.

CK 13:55

So what made you at that point? What made you say I'm going to go to a neuro over an ortho Because you've had a surgery by each? At this point, I did.

Phil 14:03

It was just the fact that this guy is the head of neurology for the entire, for the hospital system, and his the number of recommendations I got from people for different types of surgeries that all said. Even the nurse said, oh yeah, dr Phillips, that's the guy. So you want to. If you can get hooked up with them, you very luck.

CK 14:18

So that's a better way to choose a doctor than than how I chose my doctor. I went with who can see me first Great.

Phil 14:33

Yeah, yeah, see, I got. I got so little faith. I was so happy that the the when the nurse practitioner got me that that next day appointment. It was great to get in with that guy. But I could tell by the way, he was just sloughing me off to say I'm going to schedule for this and I'll see you in six weeks. I'm like you're not taking me seriously at all. I'm telling you, this is like number three for me. I know how this goes. Even if you've done it a thousand times, I've done it three times to myself Just get me scheduled for this stuff. I knew I don't want this guy operating on me.

Phil 14:57

I know, I can tell.

CK 14:59

And I've encouraged people previous times in the forum or on TikTok If you don't vibe with the doctor that you've seen, get another consult. I mean, obviously you have to risk the waiting couple of weeks, obviously you have to risk the waiting couple of weeks, but you really need to be comfortable with who's opening you up.

Phil 15:15

You should right. You're going to live with this for the rest of your life, so, yeah, find the best. Yeah, exactly, exactly.

CK 15:22

So at this point, was this a third or a microdissectomy, or sorry?

Phil 15:27

Third. So that was last February. I saw I was very happy when I finally got my first consult with this head of neurology. He saw me on the day after Thanksgiving and he said I am going to, I'm sorry, take this back. This was I'm thinking of the fourth surgery, the third surgery at L4-5 with this guy. He saw me on with my the first consult on a Tuesday. Said what do you want to do? He said I read Tuesday. Said what do you want to do? He said I read all your stuff. What do you want to do? Do you want to do try more conservative stuff or do you want surgery? And I said I want surgery. He goes OK, I'll see you Friday, three days because I'm going on vacation. So if you want surgery, we're going to do this on Friday. Let's go in the hospital or in a surgery center.

CK 16:09

I was in a hospital.

Phil 16:09

Okay.

CK 16:10

Did you have to stay the night or were you able to go home on all of them?

Phil 16:12

Microdyskectomies nowadays, that's just. It was outpatient, I think. I was in at like eight o'clock in the morning. I was home by one. Those are pretty amazing. The first two back in the day. I was in the hospital for a couple of days for two or three nights for a microdyskectomy. Seems kind of silly, but nowadays it's pretty quick.

CK 16:29

I got stuck in the hospital for three nights. After mine, mine was, yeah, in 2019, but I had my Dora tour because my hernia it just was actually glued to the spinal cord. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So there was a tear and they had to put a patch on, so I wasn't allowed to walk, sit up or anything. I had to lay flat on my back for three nights.

Phil 16:49

Oh no. So if yours was adhered to the nerve root, you must have lasting nerve damage.

CK 16:55

So, yeah, there's still a chunk that's stuck to the uh, to the nerve and, uh, they did the laminectomy as well to give it my nerve freedom of movement Right. So my my numbness never went away, but I only noticed that when I'm shaving my legs.

Phil 17:14

I'm used to it at this point the whole right side of my leg down my ankle. I don't feel that at all. It doesn't affect the movement of the leg, it's just. It's kind of weird, yeah yeah, and I get flares.

CK 17:23

But I think everyone from now after any surgery will always get flares, right but otherwise, but otherwise, I'm great. Most of the 95% of the time I'm, I'm pain-free. Awesome, awesome, yeah, yeah, at three surgeries. What is going through your mind at that point? How did you deal with that emotionally?

Phil 17:41

Uh, so that one wasn't too bad. This was the number three. It wasn't too bad because I sort of I knew how it went. I knew as soon as you get surgery that pain is gone, you have a little bit of recovery and then you're what I had experienced before I had. Once you get through that recovery, then you're good to go for for a while. A little scarier, being the third, knowing that all right. So this is probably my last micro discectomy, because after this options start to become fusions and other more more invasive type stuff. So I kind of knew that was happening and over the years I had been talking to people and I've heard a lot of people say if you've had more than one of microdiscectomy, you're going to have a fusion at some point. It's just a matter of time. You just want to put that off as long as you can.

CK 18:25

And with that third MRI were they saying hey, the disc height here is getting risky or you have degener.

] The Fusion Experience and Recovery

Phil 18:30

Third one was okay. The third one that was enough left in this. This guy said. The surgeon said um, you know we have the choice of microcystic acne or fusion. I don't see you as a fusion candidate yet because you have enough. It has not started to compress the height as much as you would think it would in other people. And he said if you have healthy disc tissue in there, leave it. If you want to maintain your ability to move around and do your sports, you want to leave that, that disc, in there for as long as possible. For me it lasted six months.

CK 19:00

Oh no, did a second injury happen, or was it just woke up and you had pain again.

Phil 19:05

Woke up and had pain again. I was biking, running, doing all sorts of stuff, Everything felt great and I felt that telltale tingling and then pain right in the glute down the leg. That advanced pretty quickly.

CK 19:19

Did you go back to the same neurosurgeon then, or did you?

Phil 19:21

have to go through.

CK 19:22

Okay, all right, yep.

Phil 19:28

So what happened then? Then quick MRI Same deal with look he's you just schedule me for an MRI. That MRI is like a month out. So I'm calling the diagnostic center saying I'll take an earlier appointment because, telling you, I know what I'm going to, I know what you're going to see, right, so let's just get this done. Yeah, so that one ended up being a longer delay because I didn't get the MRI until. So that showed up beginning of October. I didn't get the MRI until the end of November. And then when I saw him he said, all right, you're looking for a fusion, so we need to get this done. We need to get this done pretty quickly. I said we're going to put this out to the insurance and we expect to get this done within a week or two.

Phil 20:09

Unfortunately, I found out I got a call it took two weeks for the insurance to pre-authorization, which is the longest I've ever heard. I was calling insurance every day. What's taking so long? And they finally authorized it. And then I got that call. I was waiting by the phone, like I got that call from my neurosurgeon. Here's my date. It was January 22nd. I'm like that's seven weeks. You're going to make me wait seven weeks.

CK 20:31

Right After he just said we got to get this done pretty quickly right he did.

Phil 20:35

I was told that the people who do the drugs anesthesiologists they all take their vacations at the same time and it's at the end of the year the last two weeks of the year there's no surgery. So that screws up everyone else's booking and the fact that this surgery was being done in the main OR not at a surgery center that's just naturally booked up like everything else is booked up. So that was a seven week to get that surgery.

CK 21:04

That's a shame, because the end of the year is when everybody has met their deductible and wants to get their surgeries done before the new year starts.

Phil 21:11

Exactly Terrible it was, it was.

CK 21:16

What was it about your MRI? That the doctor was saying we should get this done as soon as possible?

Phil 21:23

the fact that I had started to see narrowing of the space quite a bit. And he said and when he, when he first saw me, he said all right, so we can talk about another micro discectomy or we can talk about a fusion. And I said, wait a minute, this is my. He said this is your second right? I'm like this is my third. On that he goes oh, third, oh, fusion, yeah for sure, we don't. We don't recommend that much. If you already had the first surgery took out a third of the disc, the second surgery took out another third of the disc. So now we're looking at less than half and the MRI results was showing an error on that. So it's just going to get worse.

CK 21:56

Did you have to think about it at all, or were you like this is my lot in life?

Phil 22:00

So how soon can you do it? How? Soon can you do it. Do it tomorrow, I'm ready.

CK 22:05

Get me out of this pain.

Phil 22:06

Oh, this nasty pain. This last one was bad on multiple levels. I mean just shooting pain. I was reading and writing on some of these Reddit threads of people doing it, and on one of them I was explaining how you could look in my face. If you're a normal person, you could look at my face right now, when I'm in the middle of this, and you wouldn't know that I'm in any pain. But if you felt I'm feeling right now, you'd be on the floor because I have no choice but to just put up with it, just to learn to walk around and deal with it, cause it's going to hurt all the time. Medications don't do anything, it's just nerve pain is is different. It's just nasty, it's nasty.

CK 22:46

Yeah, and people do not understand it until they-.

Phil 22:51

No, oh man.

CK 22:53

Now, did your surgeon talk about disc replacement at all, or was it straight fusion?

Phil 22:59

This was straight fusion and it was only the P-LIF, which I understood was sort of his specialty. He'd been doing that surgery and had to refine that over decades, and that was what he was going to do. For me, it's based on where the where he was going to gain access from the back, so that must've been where the the disc was broken out and ruptured.

CK 23:19

Okay, yeah, so they didn't have to go through your abdomen.

Phil 23:22

No, thankfully I've heard those recoveries a little bit difficult, a little bit difficult, a little bit more difficult.

CK 23:25

They are a little, yeah, they're a little harder. Okay, so that was January. Then you went in for the fusion. Okay, and how long was the hospital stay after a fusion?

Phil 23:35

That was two nights. So that was Wednesday. No, that was. I went on on Friday morning and came home on Sunday. Oh, take that back. I went on on Wednesday. I was home Friday morning, okay, doctor told me three nights and I was only there for two. I felt great. I felt, um, I had, uh, an issue with the catheter and I had an issue with the drain. I had this big giant disc drain thing that was hooked up to me. Every time I got out of bed I had to stuff it in my little, uh johnny, and like walk around. But I was walking circles around the that floor that night because I knew how important it is to move. And then, um, because I was able to to get through all my urinary stuff, that in that first day, um, it's like I'd rather go home.

CK 24:21

And she's there, go home what are the uh post fusion restrictions like compared to a micro dissection?

Phil 24:29

Quite a bit more. The no bending, no lifting, no twisting, that is 100%. You cannot do that at all. Number one, but big one for me, is I had to quit smoking.

CK 24:40

Yep, it slows your healing process down.

Phil 24:43

Smoked a pack a day for 40 years, so I made that decision on the morning of Dr Anneke Vandenbroek. Oh gosh, cold turkey.

CK 24:50

Dr Justin.

Phil 24:50

Marchegiani Cold turkey. Yeah, I did. I figured it would actually help me because I knew the experience of the first two or three days after surgery. I'm going to be medicated, I'm going to be in a different environment in a hospital. I'm going to get through those first two or three days of whatever withdrawals off of nicotine pretty easily, and it's it's. It's nearly not been that big of a deal. It's the difference, it's the choice of do I want to maintain an active lifestyle or do I want to smoke? So I want to maintain that active lifestyle, so I quit.

CK 25:23

That's great. It definitely seems like you are the perfect mindset kind of person to go through all this. Unfortunately, yeah. Realistic and and and not afraid.

Phil 25:34

I get that people are nervous about medicine, nervous about surgery. I'm not, because I've just I've had my fourth, so I've been through it before. I've also just had a lot of surgeries. I get I tear stuff all the time. I've had plastic surgeries and three knee surgeries and just it seems like I'm getting some sort of medical care all the time. When, when I leave the house in my truck, siri and the little heads up display will will show you. You know where do you think you're going. And I took a picture of it a few months ago, last summer, and it was the physical therapy center. No, it was urgent care. It was urgent care. Thanks, mr. Thanks, phil's going to urgent care. Yeah, that's hilarious.

CK 26:15

So where are you right now as far as doing normal activities? You said the fusion was January and right now we are in March. We're March 17th.

Phil 26:24

So I was supposed to have my six week follow up with the neurosurgeon on March 17th. So I was supposed to have my six week follow-up with the neurosurgeon on March 11th. I got a call the day before saying that he's out on leave. So he pushed that back until the beginning of April, which is a bummer because that's when I figured I would have a lot of my restrictions lifted. I insisted on that phone call that they find out if I can start doing a little bit more types of exercise and not just walk all the time because that was boring. Can start doing a little bit more types of exercise and not just walk all the time because that was boring. And they said I was asking specifically when can I get back on my bike? They got the okay because of how I'd been doing. They said start doing your biking sort of in moderation. And then that was really the only thing that was lifted. The bending, lifting and twisting is still in place and that's still working entirely from home.

CK 27:09

And will you go to physical therapy?

Phil 27:11

Yes, I started that, so that's another tip for people going through this. When I went to see the neurosurgeon's nurse practitioner at the two-week follow-up that's where they just do an incision check. It's not really a real follow-up, it's just like a basic first follow-up she said I asked when I would be able to start physical therapy because I had such a great experience with physical therapy following the last surgery that the physical therapist put me through the ringer in such a great way. He said by the time I was done with that, I was doing core exercises that were really only for people, for highly trained athletes, and I'm like I'm not that, I'm just really motivated to get back to my lifestyle. But this guy was so good I couldn't wait to get back to work with him because I knew how quickly he'd get me back in good shape.

Phil 27:58

When I went to see this nurse practitioner, she said you're going to probably start that physical therapy around the time you see the doctor, which is at six weeks. And I said, great, be around the time you see the doctor which is at six weeks. And I said, great, I would like you to put the order in now so that I can schedule it now and not wait until March 11th where he says, okay, you're free to go now, go schedule it. It's a month out, I'm not going to do that. So I had my my. My neurosurgeon's visit was supposed to be March 11th. I had my PT visit on March 12th and I was able to keep that. So I started PT last week.

CK 28:28

Yeah, and are you still in pain or are you pain-free now?

Phil 28:31

Pain-free. I don't feel a thing. If I didn't have this bending, lifting, twisting restriction, I would not know that I had surgery.

CK 28:38

Wow, that's amazing. So you, if someone said, oh gosh, I have to get fusion, you would say don't worry about it.

Phil 28:51

Don't worry about it. It's all about several things in my opinion and experience.

Dan 28:53

How good condition are you in before surgery? That's?

Phil 28:54

true, you need to be strong in the core. Do as much exercise. The better shape you're in before surgery, the better shape you're going to be after surgery. Number one number two not all surgeons are the same, so get a good one and I know I got a good one because everything right down to the incision itself is like you can barely even see it. It's amazing. I've seen pictures of other people's jagged nasty. That is a surgeon doesn't know what he's doing. Get the right surgeon. And number two lean heavily into physical therapy. The harder you work after your surgery, the better, and the faster your recovery is going to be in my.

] Wisdom and Encouragement for Others

CK 29:27

In my experience, Unfortunately, not every doctor recommends physical therapy. There's, there's an idea that, yeah, my physical therapist was a was a savior as far as emotional, like just being able to move again. I had to get past fear for that. So, not going to a physical therapist? I don't get it.

Phil 29:49

I don't understand that whatsoever. That's just it was. I had PT after every one of my surgeries back into the nineties, so who wouldn't do it?

CK 29:57

Well, Phil, if you had any last words of encouragement or wisdom that you would want to share with people in your situation, what would you have to say?

Phil 30:13

Don't wait. I've read a lot of stories of people who said I've been dealing with this for six months, for years, for 10 years. I'm like man, I've dealt with this for quite a bit before, but I never waited to take action on it. So I get people's hesitance to do it, but my experience, and then the experiences I've read from uh, from other people and from other patients, has been very positive. If, uh, if you get the right person. So I'd say don't wait, because people end up with nerve damage and numbness and the inability to use certain extremities. If you, if you wait, so it's it's. I don't believe herniations ever get better on their own. It's not the type of tissue that heals itself Right. So, um, don't wait, yeah that's great.

CK 30:53

Did you with the fusion? Um, did you have any like post-surgical inflammation, rear its head two weeks later, or anything like that? Never, never, okay. What about with the other surgeries?

Phil 31:06

No, no, I never had any. The only issue I ever had was a little bit of inflammation after my second or the first microdiscectomy in 1996, where the nurse who took my stitches out missed one. A couple weeks later something was like that little inflammation was developing Outside of that. No, the incisions. The incisions look great.

CK 31:28

That's awesome, phil. I really appreciate you reaching out and being willing to share your story on Bed Back and Beyond. It means a whole lot.

Phil 31:37

I'm happy to be here. I hope my experience can help someone else. I know it's an unfortunate club that we're in, so the more people can learn and be ready to advocate for themselves and get themselves better. I wish everyone the best of luck.

CK 31:51

Are you also on the Spinal Fusion Reddit community or just?

Phil 31:54

I am, yeah, okay, great, I've contributed quite a bit to that.

CK 31:58

Awesome. If you are a listener and you have a positive story of recovery from a serious back or neck injury, head over to bedbackbeyondcom and click share your story. I would love to include your voice on the show. Once again, Phil, thank you so much.

Phil 32:14

Thank you, I'm glad to be here.