No Fusion, No Regrets: One Patient’s Journey to Artificial Disc Surgery in Germany

In this hope-filled episode of Bed Back and Beyond, host CK sits down with Tara, a lumbar artificial disc replacement patient whose journey took her far beyond U.S. borders in search of relief and mobility.

After being told that spinal fusion was her primary option, Tara chose to dig deeper. Determined to preserve motion and avoid fusion, she researched artificial disc replacement, only to uncover a major roadblock: a nickel allergy. Since artificial discs used in the United States contain nickel, Tara was suddenly faced with a difficult decision.

Rather than give up, she kept researching and discovered that European countries offer titanium artificial disc replacements, making surgery possible without triggering her allergy. Though traveling overseas for spine surgery came with a significant financial burden, Tara made the bold choice to proceed.

Today, she shares how the surgery changed her life, why she has zero regrets about the medical debt, and what she wants others considering artificial disc replacement to know before making their decision.

This episode is especially valuable for:

• People considering artificial disc replacement vs fusion
• Patients with metal or nickel allergies
• Anyone researching artificial disc surgery in Germany
• Listeners looking for real patient stories and outcomes

Tara’s story is a reminder that informed patients can find options beyond the standard script, and that sometimes the path to healing requires courage, curiosity, and a passport. #spinehealth #discreplacement 

Transcript

Welcome And ADR Skepticism

SPEAKER_01 0:00

I found some doctors that did do disc replacement, but they mostly did it for this the cervical spine. And then most of them were like, you know, it's it's never successful in the lumbar spine. Don't even think about it. You'll have a worse outcome, or this, that, and the other. And I was like, uh, I don't really think that's true.

SPEAKER_00 0:19

Welcome to Bed Back and Beyond, sharing positive stories of recovery from serious back or neck injury. Your host is CK, a fellow champion who draws on her own experience with creative disc surgery. Join her as she talks with others who have overcome the physical and emotional trauma of a painful injury. And discover for yourself how you can find hope and encouragement in recovery.

Tara’s First Injury And Early Flares

SPEAKER_03 0:48

Welcome to this episode of Bed Back and Beyond. I am super excited for my guest today. Her name is Tara, and she is my first artificial disc replacement patient. She's actually had two disc replaced. So I am really excited to share her journey. But before we get into the episode, could I ask you to do me a favor? If this has been a help to you in any way, would you like, comment, or share my video, or even subscribe? That'll help the algorithm to say, hey, this material is actually helpful or good and help to spread it out to other people who are in need of finding it. Thank you so much. Let's get on to this episode. Hi, Tara. Thank you so much for joining me on this episode of Bed Back and Beyond. Before we dive into your backstory, how about you tell us about yourself?

SPEAKER_01 1:38

Sure. So my name's Tara. I'm 39 years old. I let's see, I first hurt my back when I was 23 years old. And then I've been suffering with it basically the entire time until I was about 30, let me think. What was that? 36 when I had back uh disc replacement surgery. Um I live in North Carolina, so we're preparing for the ice storm currently. Uh has it started yet? It is not yet, but it is quite cold. So yes.

SPEAKER_03 2:05

It was six degrees this morning when I left the house. Ugh, yeah. Not looking forward to it. We're supposed to get anywhere from like nine to fifteen inches of snow. Oh, geez.

SPEAKER_01 2:16

And then I feel like it's even worse for people with back pain.

SPEAKER_03 2:19

So talk about feeling lonely, and now all of a sudden you can't go outside too. Exactly. So you said, I think in your email to me, you said it was 2011 when you first hurt your back. Correct. Uh, how did that happen?

SPEAKER_01 2:33

Yep. So basically up until that point, I never had any back pain. I always thought, you know, people with back pain, it can't possibly be that bad. And then I uh was working at a golf course and I don't know exactly what happened. I don't know if it was a series of events that led up to something, but basically what happened is I was working an event at the time and I was pushing a giant drink barrel up a hill, and I felt this sudden jolt, and I was like, I don't know what that was, but I've never felt it before. And um, at the time it was okay. I finished the rest of the day work. The next day I could not get out of bed at all. And I had no idea what happened to me, uh, except for the most excruciating pain that I can't even describe.

SPEAKER_03 3:15

Was it just in your back or was it starting to radiate down your leg already?

SPEAKER_01 3:19

At that point, it was just in my back. So it was just isolated in the lower back area, like right in my hips and lower back at the time.

SPEAKER_03 3:26

So, what was your first step? Just to ride it out, or did you go straight to the doctors?

SPEAKER_01 3:30

I think I called my mom. I was 23. I had no idea. I was like, I don't know what this is. It's the most excruciating pain. It was in July, I remember, of 2023, or not 2023, 20 2011. And I um next went to the chiropractor because at the time I didn't know, I had no idea what else to do. I'd never been in this kind of pain, had no idea what it was. So I went to the chiropractor. They were like, oh, you probably slipped a disc or something. So they did, you know, the um adjustment and everything on me and did some heat and some ice and told me, you know, just ride it out and you should be fine.

SPEAKER_03 4:04

Any improvement?

SPEAKER_01 4:05

Uh it lasted about three weeks. So it took about three weeks until I finally started to feel better. And then I was pretty much fine, I would say, quote unquote fine, for about a year, and then it happened again. You know, long story short, in some senses, it seems like between 2011 up until 2017, it was about every six months to a year, I'd have what I would call a flare that would last about a week or two, and then I would be okay for a while. Still just in your back? Correct. At that time, it was still just in my back. I had no idea what sciatica was until 2017.

unknown 4:40

Okay.

2017 Sciatica Crisis And Microdiscectomy

SPEAKER_03 4:41

What happened in 2017?

SPEAKER_01 4:43

So in 2017, I'll never forget. I think I was a bad omen on Thanksgiving. I was sitting there telling my parents, I was like, you know, when the new year hits and insurance resets, I think I'm gonna get my back checked out because this, you know, every six months thing is just getting really irritating. And not even a week later, I was in my bathroom and I reached for a towel, and I got what was even 10 times worse of a pain than I've ever felt, all the way down. It went straight down my left leg into my toes. And I was thought I got struck by lightning, is all I can think of that it's that it felt like. And I remember I had to go to work, and so I got to work, I couldn't even focus. And within an hour, I told my boss, I was like, I have got to go. I don't know what is wrong, but this is beyond excruciating. I can't focus, I can't think. And then that was on a Thursday, I'll never forget. And then I called and got an appointment for Monday with the back doctor, um, a neurosurgeon. And between Thursday and Monday, I couldn't sit down, I couldn't lay down. I had to try and sleep, leaning against a wall. And outside of that, I felt like I was going crazy. I have never felt that kind of pain. It was burning, stinging on fire. And got to the doctor on Monday and they immediately rushed me in for an MRI. And then that was nice. Yeah, so that was when I found out, you know, how bad it actually was. Okay, so you didn't have to go through get an x-ray first and then get the MRI. No, surprisingly, they they could take one look at me and new. They were like, This is not good. That's how bad it was.

SPEAKER_02 6:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:17

And and at the time, um, so they rushed me in for the MRI. I had to do um, what was it called? The open MRI where you sit in it. And of course, sitting, which I had never been in, but that's the only one they had available. And sitting was so excruciating. So I sat there for you know the 45 minutes or however long it lasted, just crying because such excruciating pain. And I remember it was about 10 o'clock in the morning, and by two o'clock, they called me and said I had to have emergency surgery the next day.

SPEAKER_03 6:47

Oh, geez. I went to the ER with an ambulance when my herniation happened, and they didn't give me an M MRI that day. They gave me a couple shots of some sort of pain med, sent me home and say, said find a back doctor. So that was two weeks to get into a back doctor, and then it was another two weeks before I could get an MRI.

SPEAKER_01 7:08

I was surprised that it happened, you know, that quickly. And then because pretty much every other instance up until that point, I had the same thing. I'd go to the ER and they're like, take Tylenol, you know, you'll be fine. That's not really gonna do much.

SPEAKER_03 7:21

Um, but then what made it an emergency? Were there bladder symptoms or so?

SPEAKER_01 7:26

No, I didn't have any symptoms like that, but they did look at my MRI picture, and my disc had completely herniated to the point where it there was it was completely compressing the nerve. Like there was almost like I mean, you'll you'll see it on the picture too. I mean, it was it was absolutely insane um how how bad it was. And my doctor told me after the fact, once he got in there, that it was the worst herniated disc he'd ever seen, and he ended up retiring three months later. So he retired your doctor. Yeah, yeah. I was like, I guess he was like, This is the last one, you know.

SPEAKER_03 7:59

I've seen it all at this point, and I'm like, did he give you uh did he happen to give you millimeters measurement or anything like that?

SPEAKER_01 8:06

He probably did, but I honestly don't remember. Um it might even say it, I think, on the picture. I can't remember, but it's pretty bad. It was my L5S1 at that point.

SPEAKER_03 8:16

Yeah, I was L5 S1, but when I look at my picture, it looks like this little thumb print in there, and I'm like, that's what put me to the floor. Here are people like you with this huge one.

SPEAKER_01 8:27

Oh, yeah, it was a it was a pretty sizable carniation. And I'm like, no wonder that hurt pretty bad. I can understand it now.

SPEAKER_03 8:34

Yeah, all right. So they tell you you have you need emergency surgery. Had you even ever heard the term microdisectomy before that?

SPEAKER_01 8:41

No idea. I had never heard of it, didn't know what it was, but at that point I was like, whatever you can do to get rid of this pain, I will do it because it was unconscionable. I mean it's so so painful. I can't even describe it, which I'm sure you understand what that pain looks is like. And until you've been through it, you just can't even describe it.

SPEAKER_03 9:02

People don't understand.

SPEAKER_01 9:04

Yeah, no, absolutely not. And I had nothing prepared. You know, I had just started a job like three months prior to this, so I'm paranoid. You know, how long am I gonna have to be out of work? Are they gonna be okay with it? So I'm freaking out about that. And then, you know, what do I need? I live by myself. So I'm like, what do I need to take, you know, to have to take care of me and things like that? But at the time I was just like, I'll figure it out. Um and then, yeah, and then I went in, so that was a Monday, and then I went in Tuesday, Tuesday afternoon for emergency surgery.

SPEAKER_03 9:32

And did you have to stay overnight or were you able to go home that same day?

SPEAKER_01 9:36

No, I went home that same day. So my parents took me and then they took me home afterwards. Um, I think my mom's or my friends stayed with me that night, and I was actually okay. After surgery, I woke up a thousand times better. Like the pain after surgery compared to the pain before surgery. I I was like, this is this is a piece of cake. Yeah, you know, it was nothing like what I dealt with those few few days prior.

SPEAKER_03 9:58

Yeah, that's what most people say that they'd rather take the pain of the incision versus the herniated disc pain. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 10:05

So your parents stayed with you for a little while? Yeah, my mom came in. Um, my dad was was pretty ill with his own health at that point. So my mom, um, their parents lived probably about 20 minutes from me, which was nice. So my mom would come and check on me every once in a while. I had a friend stay with me for a few days, which was nice. Uh, but after I did pretty well, other than you know, you can't bend down, you can't so everything that was low. If I drop something, I'm like, well, I guess it's gonna stay there. And then, you know, of course, I got one of the grabbers, then I dropped that. So then it's like, all right, well, this is this is fun. But I did learn to how to squat pretty well. So I had to, you know, squat down until I found out, you know, my knee's bad, but um, you know, so I would squat down to pick anything up that I needed to, but I felt like the recovery was was not that bad in the scheme of things. The only thing I felt like that was rough was just I was so terrified of reherniating it, you know, because it's so fragile. So I had to make sure I definitely don't twist, don't bend, be careful getting out of bed, things like that.

SPEAKER_03 11:05

Yeah, it's very emotionally traumatic. I once you pass the surgery point, reherniation lives at the front of everybody's brain, I feel like.

SPEAKER_01 11:13

Yeah, like forever. It's like you're just like, okay, did I move wrong? Did I step off that curve too quickly? You know, it's things like that that just go through your head. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:21

So that was 2017, did you say?

SPEAKER_01 11:24

Correct, December of 2017.

SPEAKER_03 11:26

So recovery was pretty easy. Um, any major flare-ups post-surger?

Post-Op Setbacks And Injections

SPEAKER_01 11:32

I do remember having some flares. I remember probably around, I mean, that was December, maybe around March, between March and June, I had some reoccurring, pretty fairly significant pain, but it was all, it wasn't any sciatica. It was all localized to my lower back, and I was afraid that I had, you know, re-herniated it. Had a couple MRIs, um, or MRI, I guess an X-ray and a couple other things. And they said that it was just um scar tissue, is what they thought it was that was probably pressing on the nerve because I the scar tissue was almost not quite as big, but almost as big looking as the actual herniation when I had it. Um, so they told me, you know, they did a couple steroid injections, I got a couple um nerve blocks, and then I ended up getting an epidural, which actually did pretty well for me for a while.

SPEAKER_03 12:16

So then you were able to go back to normal living for some time.

SPEAKER_01 12:20

For the most part, I still was very careful with um, you know, not doing anything that would hurt it. Like I used to love to play golf, um, or I love to go, you know, ride roller coasters, things like that. So I still didn't do any of that because I was like, it's not worth it to risk reharniating it. So I lived a normal life for the most part, but was still very careful. The same with the gym. I I didn't really go to the gym like I used to, or like I wanted to. It was more of just walking, was my main source of exercise at that point. And then you re-harniated, correct? Yes. And what year was that? So that was in 2020, of all things, during COVID.

2020 Reherniation And Tough Choices

SPEAKER_03 12:59

We're in COVID. Oh, geez.

SPEAKER_01 13:01

Yeah. So my um at the time my dad had some pretty failing health. He had Parkinson's, and unfortunately it was during COVID. So getting someone else to help was very hard at the time. And he'd have a couple times where he'd fall out of bed, and my mom, you know, couldn't get him back in bed, so I'd go over there and help her. But then, you know, you obviously want to do the things to help someone else, especially like someone so close to you. But then I think that's what ended up reherniating my disc was probably like about two weeks or so before he passed, lifting him back into the bed. And then, you know, the stress of all of that and everything, and about a week after his funeral, I um had reherniated it. And I knew at that point that it was definitely not just scar tissue.

SPEAKER_03 13:45

And was it super sharp, like same pain as before, or was it more mild?

SPEAKER_01 13:52

It was maybe a little bit more mild, I would say. Um, or I might have just been more used to it at that point. I really don't know. I didn't get any of the sciatica again. So I hadn't had that until since before, um, up until this point, since before the first surgery. But I did have still a lot of like numbless, numbness tingling in the leg ever since then. But I do remember that it happened like I think I was getting out of the car, if I remember. And when I was getting out of the car, I just felt this like that jolt, and you're like, you know, is this gonna be bad or is it just like an instant jolt and it's gonna go away? And unfortunately it didn't. And I knew at that point, you know, here I am back to the doctor.

SPEAKER_02 14:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:34

So I go, I go back to the doctor, and um, like I said, the doctor I had originally gone to had retired, so I saw a different doctor at the practice, and he wanted to do another microdisectomy. And something in me was just telling me that's probably not the best idea, especially for how bad my disc already was. There's not a whole lot more to remove, and it had already flattened so much. So I told him no, and then I wanted to keep, you know, looking into you know, alternate ideas of of what I wanted to do and and figure that out.

SPEAKER_03 15:05

So that was that was probably like September, I guess, by the time I got into and uh the MRI, the disc didn't look as bad as the first time that you harnessed it.

SPEAKER_01 15:13

It still didn't look, it looked pretty close to when I had the scar tissue, maybe a little bit, it was like the scar tissue is protruding a little bit more, but it still didn't look that bad. And so I was like, what is causing me all this pain? And so that's when you know I started to look into other ideas um and reaching out to different doctors to try and get some advice on, you know, what are my other options and exactly what why is this hurting so bad?

SPEAKER_03 15:39

Did anybody else offer you a fusion?

Researching ADR Vs Fusion

SPEAKER_01 15:42

So yes. So that doctor that had told me about the dissectomy had also said, you know, if you don't do the dissectomy, your only other option really is a fusion, which I did not want to do. My mom um had a I think a three or four three-level fusion. And ever since she had that, her back's been worse. Um, and so when we both have degenerative disc disease, and she also has little bad arthritis. So I'm like, I didn't want to end up like her, you know, and then unfortunately she's just in a really bad spot with her back, right? And I knew, like, you know, that's my mom, so it's likely that I might end up like that as well. And I just didn't want to go that route. You're so young. How old were you in 2020? What was that six years ago? So 30 to 33, 32, going into 33, I guess. Yeah, I mean I can't imagine at 33 thinking about getting a fusion.

SPEAKER_03 16:31

Yeah. So did you even know that an artificial disc was out there?

SPEAKER_01 16:36

So I had heard about it, and I actually heard about it before I had my microdisectomy. Um, because I remember hearing things like here and there. I've always been a big researcher and looking things up. So I started looking that up a long time before I even ever, like back when I was saying that, you know, come after January, I want to go to the back doctor again. Like I had already thought about disc replacement if that might be an option. But then all this happened and I just didn't have the time to even think about that. And I don't think at that point I probably would have even really been a candidate. You know, I did do a bunch of research and did hear about it. I didn't know a lot about it at that point, but I knew that it existed.

SPEAKER_03 17:12

So then were you able to find a doctor in your area that would do an artificial disc?

Texas Back Institute And Discogram

SPEAKER_01 17:18

No. So in so in that area, I found some doctors that did do disc replacement, but they mostly did it for this the cervical spine. And then most of them were like, you know, it's it's never successful in the lumbar spine, don't even think about it. You'll have a worse outcome or this, that, and the other. And I was like, uh, I don't really think that's true. So I started looking elsewhere. Um, and then the first place that I actually went to was the Texas Back Institute in Dallas.

SPEAKER_03 17:46

You flew all the way to Texas just to see this specific doctor.

SPEAKER_01 17:50

I did. So the good thing was during COVID, I don't know if they still do it, but during COVID, they were doing virtual appointments. So I was able to actually send him all of my records and everything and do a virtual appointment, which was in about I think um October of 2020. And so he looked at everything and he recommended that he's like, I don't think that the L5S1 is your only problem. And I was like, what? I was like, no one's ever mentioned anything else. And he was like, I want to do a discogram on your L4L5 to see if that one is also causing you issues. And it was interesting because that disc did not have a noticeable herniation or anything on my imaging, however, it was really dark where all leather just put white. This one was black, just like the bad one. So that's when I ended up flying down to Texas to actually have them do the discogram.

SPEAKER_03 18:43

Okay. So the black means dehydrate it, correct?

Nickel Allergy And US ADR Limits

SPEAKER_01 18:46

Yeah, I believe it means dehydrated or there's some sort of defect with it. So it could be that there's a small rupture, it could be there is like a herniation somewhere that is just very minimal, but somehow the fluid, to your point, is leaking out of that disc. So it is losing its hydration. Okay. So what is a discogram? So a discogram is a procedure where they put you to sleep and they actually put a needle into the disc, then they wake you up. So you're asleep for maybe a couple minutes. I don't even know. They wake you up and they inject the disc to uh to stimulate pain, pain response. So basically they're trying to simulate the pain that you've been having. So if that disc is fine, you'll just be laying there like not feel anything. However, in my case, if it is not fine and it is having an issue, you will feel severe extreme pain. Oh my goodness. That sounds terrifying. Yeah, so it is it's not fun. However, a couple of things. So one, they did it, they had to stimulate the pain response, and then they were like, okay, unfortunately, we're gonna have to do it one more time just to confirm. But this whole process lasted maybe 30 seconds, and they immediately Numbed it up and I didn't have any pain afterwards. Okay. And so I've heard of some horror stories where people have had a lot of pain afterwards, but that's why I flew down there for this procedure because there aren't that many specialists that do it. And I wanted to go to the one that does it on the daily. And so he knows what he's doing. And that's why to me it was worth it flying down there because I flew back the next day. I didn't have any back pain. It actually made my back pain better because of the numbing stuff that they put in there. I was like, oh, yeah, it made me feel better. But basically the pain that they had re or had stimulated was the exact pain that I had been having, which is why I now know it was actually my L4L5 this whole time that had been causing me pain and not that the L5, L4L5 had not actually reherniated. It was still bad and it had completely, it was like down to like you know almost bone on bone. However, it wasn't the one that had reherniated because all that pain that was stimulated was from the L4L5.

SPEAKER_03 20:55

Holy cow. This is the first time I've you've ever heard of this procedure.

SPEAKER_01 20:59

I yeah, I had never heard of it either until he recommended it. And I was like, no one else has ever said this to me, nor has anyone even suggested that my L4L5 could also be the problem.

SPEAKER_03 21:10

And what was the name of the place in Texas?

SPEAKER_01 21:12

Uh so it's Texas Back Institute, and then I saw his Dr. Geyer, who is amazing, absolutely amazing doctor. I think he actually did a surgery on Tiger Woods, um, which is pretty cool.

SPEAKER_03 21:24

Yeah. I'm not surprised. Tiger Woods has so many surgeries. I know.

SPEAKER_01 21:28

So it's like uh one of his many, but yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:31

Okay, so you go in, you have the discogram, and then you fly back home. Before you left, did you come up with a plan or did he just send you home and said, think on it?

SPEAKER_01 21:40

Yep. So basically, so this he was phenomenal in the way that he was so thorough in every step of the process. So from there, he then said, Okay, great. So now we know this piece of the puzzle. The next piece of the puzzle is he started to ask me about um metals. And so I was like, okay, like what do you mean? And he's like, Well, do you ever wear costume jewelry or anything? Do you have an issue with it? And I was like, Well, I was like, sometimes earrings will bother my ears. And so he was like, Okay, he's like, I want you to get this thorough um metal allergy testing. And I was like, Okay, so can I just do like the skin testing? He's like, No. So I had to do, I did the skin testing, anyways, which showed negative. But then he wanted me to do this full blood panel through orthopedic analysis, which they send you a kit. You have to get a prescription, then they send you a kit, and then you just go to the blood, like anywhere that draws blood, have them, you know, take the blood and then send it back. And then that came back and showed that I had a severe nickel allergy.

SPEAKER_03 22:40

And are the artificial official discs made with nickel?

SPEAKER_01 22:44

Yes. So unfortunately, the ones that are available in the US currently contain nickel. There's one that's currently in you know clinical trials that does not, however, you know, yeah, we don't know how long that's gonna take. But the two lumbar discs that are available in the US both contain nickel. Trace amounts, however, he was telling me, you know, if we do put that disc in and while inserting it, any of it shaves off and gets in your body, he's like, it can do nothing or it can cause horrible issues where you'll have skin rashes, systemic issues, like you can feel sick all the time, all sorts of stuff, and there's no way to ever really fix it once it's in your body. So he recommended, you know, at that point, his main recommendation was that I'd only really be able to do a fusion. Um, because most of the doctors here, you know, they can't recommend that you look elsewhere. Um, so he was like, either you wait until a different disc comes out, or you know, fusion would be your option.

Choosing A European Surgeon And ESP Disc

SPEAKER_03 23:41

And may I ask during this time, was the insurance paying for this stuff, the discogram and the um the metal?

SPEAKER_01 23:48

Yes. So yep. So insurance paid for all of that. And then um during this process, up until finding out about the nickel part, I had actually gone through the whole approval process with my insurance. They actually had denied a disc replacement or a two-level disc replacement. They then I did an appeal, they denied that, and then I did an external appeal and they approved it. So my insurance, if I could have had the surgery here, my insurance would have covered the entire thing.

SPEAKER_03 24:17

So I can't imagine the the defeat you must have felt when he first said, sorry, you you're allergic to nickel.

SPEAKER_01 24:24

Yeah. I mean, it was definitely I I mean, I was like, okay, so what does that mean? Like, okay, I'll get a raft, like I'll be a little itchy. It's like, no, it could be you know a lot worse. And then he, you know, said he could not he would not recommend doing it and he would not do the procedure on me.

unknown 24:40

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 24:41

So it was definitely like a punch to the gut, I would say. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 24:45

So what did you do? Just keep on researching or so.

SPEAKER_01 24:49

This was, I'm trying to remember exactly. I think this was around September. By the time I got to this point, it was like around September of 21. I think because all of this kind of happened in a in a pretty long period of time. I'm losing my entire train of thought at this point. But yeah, so it was basically around September 2022 is when we finally got to the point of him being like, you know, we're not gonna be able to do the procedure. Um, and so that was definitely defeating. And then I'm like, okay, well, what am I gonna do? I don't want a fusion, and I also don't know, am I gonna have to wait, you know, 15 years for another disc to come on the market that I can get? I don't, I don't know. So it was definitely a point where I was like, all right, I'm gonna do everything I can to start researching this. And I looked up everything, I joined all the Facebook groups, I was looking on TikTok, I was looking on Instagram, I was looking in Reddit forums, everywhere I possibly could to gather information. And to me, what was the most helpful was the Facebook group for the artificial disc replacement. Um, there's like 60,000 people, I think, in it. There might be more now. Um, and I just started asking people and following people and seeing all sorts of things that people were posting about different doctors that they went to. And I narrowed it down to two different doctors at that point to reach out to and start interviewing for the process of potentially flying overseas.

SPEAKER_03 26:10

Oh, oh wow. Yeah, where were they located?

Surgical Plan And Costs Abroad

SPEAKER_01 26:14

Uh so one was in France, and then one was based out of Switzerland, but he did uh surgery on international patients in Germany.

SPEAKER_03 26:21

Um what a tough decision to make.

SPEAKER_01 26:23

Yeah. So yeah, so it was definitely daunting. And then when you're only having, you know, these virtual appointments with someone and and you're like trying to put your life in their hands, like, okay, is this a great idea?

unknown 26:37

Right.

SPEAKER_01 26:37

And the two the two different doctors had two similar but yet different approaches, and then their cost was like vastly different. But I went based on all of the research interviewing, I also called and spoke to I think three patients, three or four patients from each of them over the phone um or you know, via email or something like that. And one guy I talked to on the phone for like two hours, you know, about his experience and went through all of that. And then I ended up deciding like I think this is the right doctor. And when I had that conversation with him, I knew as well.

SPEAKER_03 27:12

And which doctor was that in France or that was the German doctor in Germany, uh, Dr.

SPEAKER_01 27:17

Rischka was his name.

SPEAKER_03 27:19

When the first doctor said yes, you could do artificial disc, did he tell you why you were a good candidate for an artificial disc? Uh, the doc, the Texas doctor? Yes.

SPEAKER_01 27:28

So he told me that I was a good candidate because of my bone structure. I also had to have um a DEXA scan. I forgot about that one too, for the uh osteoporosis, make sure my bones were strong. So he told me that based on my anatomy, my age, um, and how the condition that my discs were currently in, they weren't completely obliterated. Um, and then he also said, you know, based on my bone structure and my bone strength, that I would be a good candidate for it. Um, so the only thing really that was holding me back was the um metal allergy testing, unfortunately. But he did say also that I was right on the cusp because I think it was the active L disc came in smaller sizes, and like whatever the smallest size was was like exactly what would fit in there. So if I had been any smaller or my bones had been any smaller, I would not have it would not have worked for me.

SPEAKER_03 28:20

Wow. Okay. And is that uh related to age, do you know?

Anterior Surgery, Scar Tissue, And Pain

SPEAKER_01 28:25

I don't think it's necessarily related to age. I think it's just like it can be anyone's bones. I mean, obviously the small, like I'm not a big person. I'm five, like it's like five, five, and like at the time I think it was like 120 pounds. So like I was not a very big person, so my bone structure is just kind of small too. Okay. Um, and so I guess it was based on you know the bone structure and whatnot.

SPEAKER_03 28:45

Right. So you had all the boxes checked, perfect candidate for artificial disc just with the nickel allergy. So I can see why you track down other doctors. Oh, yeah. So with the doctor in Germany, did he do his official first consult over Telemet?

SPEAKER_01 29:02

He did. Yes. So I did it almost just like this, you know, over the computer, met with him on, I think it was like a Friday or something for about 30 minutes. And I had sent him all of my um imaging and everything beforehand, and he was very thorough with how he went through it and what he would recommend and everything. Um, and he ended up recommending the ESP disc, which is only available overseas. And after doing my research and whatnot on that specific disc, I actually feel like it was a blessing that I got that disc because I think it was, I mean, it has some things about it I feel like are superior to the discs that we have here, just the type, the way it's um created. You know, some people say otherwise, but for me personally, I felt like it was a good fit.

SPEAKER_03 29:46

So, what does it use instead of nickel?

SPEAKER_01 29:48

Uh so it's titanium. Oh, okay. So this one is a fully titanium, and then it has um like a polyethylene or polyurethane. Okay, I think it's polyurethane center that's like a spongy center. Um and I have a picture of it that I'll send you as well. It's pretty, it's pretty cool to look at.

SPEAKER_03 30:06

Now, what did either doctor, either the Texas or the one in Germany, say about oh, lumber discs don't work, they fail. What was their opinion on that?

SPEAKER_01 30:16

Uh, so all of these doctors, so the Texas doctor and all of the European doctors said that's definitely not true. They're seeing extremely high success rates. I know the doctor in Texas had been doing them, I think, since like the 80s or 90s before they ever became even mainstream. The Texas Back Institute is one of the leaders in the country for disc replacement that are well known for. They've been doing it for years. Some of them are like involved in like the first discs that ever came out. And then this doctor that I talked with in Germany was the same in Germany. He's been doing them since like the 80s over there as well. He had done at the time that I had my surgery, he had done over 8,600 procedures of disc of lumbar disc replacement. So that was another thing that was a huge deal for me because I had heard, you know, do not get a disc replacement from a doctor that's done less than 1,000 procedures. Okay. That was that was so I was like, all right, 1,000, we'll go to 8,600.

unknown 31:11

You know.

SPEAKER_03 31:12

So I felt pretty confident with them. Now I know with fusions, you will get the adjacent disc disease because the fusion stops movement basically. But with artificial disc, is that a concern?

Second Surgery To Remove Hidden Bone

SPEAKER_01 31:25

No. So that was that was the big thing for me because that's exactly what happened to my mom when she has adjacent disc disease below above and below. And then um, so with the disc replacement, you maintain mobility and so you don't lose that functionality because when you put the disc in there, it operates just like a normal disc would. So you can still move, you can still bend, you can twist, you can go side, you know, side to side, all sorts of things that you can't really do with the fusion. And so it does protect anything that's above or below it, depending on which levels you have.

SPEAKER_03 31:56

And is there an expected lifespan? Will you have to replace the disc in say 20 years?

SPEAKER_01 32:03

No. So my doctor told me they're expected to last at least 40 years. Um rated even over 50 or 60. So they're definitely supposed to last a long time. He was like, You'll never, you know, that'll be in there. You'll have it for life, unless you know something tragic happened. But other than that, yeah, you would have it. You'd have it, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 32:20

Wow, that's amazing. So after speaking with him online, you were like, let's do it.

SPEAKER_01 32:27

Yep. So I basically had that conversation with him. I think I talked to him one other time after that. And most of my conferen, most of my communication with him after that was from through uh email. And he would respond within minutes. It didn't matter. I would send him an email at night, he would respond within minutes. I feel like it was first thing in the morning, he'd respond within minutes. So that was another thing that I felt really, really good. And it was him. I didn't have to go through any nurses, I didn't have to go through like a receptionist or anything like that, like you do here when you call a doctor's office. It was just directly with him. Yeah. Go through the portal. Exactly. And then, you know, so had to organize. So this was in January of 23 that I finally decided, all right, we're doing it now. It's when are we gonna do it? And trying to figure all that out and who was gonna go with me and all that sort of stuff. So I then immediately got on the ball to figure out, okay, how much is this gonna cost? How do I get to it?

SPEAKER_03 33:20

So would this be all out of pocket then? Would the insurance not cover outside of Twitter?

SPEAKER_01 33:26

Correct. So I didn't get any outside coverage, so I did have to pay all of it out of pocket. Um, so that was, you know, not fun. Um, you know, and then um, but the good thing is like over there, I mean, they're which I can go into detail as well, the whole level of care is just incredible. Um, and then you know, they helped me get everything organized. So they told me exactly, you know, the cost breakdown, exactly like line item by line item, no hidden fees, anything like that. And then they told me, you know, this is how you, you know, wire transfer, and then, you know, this is you know the date of your surgery and everything like that. And so it was pretty much all, you know, drawn out for me.

SPEAKER_03 34:07

And how long did you have to wait from making your decision to getting the surgery done?

Hospital Stay, Travel Home, And Early Rules

SPEAKER_01 34:12

So I think I could have, let me think. So I had it in I decided on it in January. I think the earliest I could have gotten in was like beginning in March. Um, however, like for my work and then with organizing someone to go with me and all that, I ended up deciding on May. So it ended up being May 11th.

SPEAKER_03 34:30

Tell us about artificial disc surgery. Are they going through the front? Are they going through the back?

SPEAKER_01 34:36

So the disc replacement surgery that I had specifically, you go through the front. So you do have about a I guess it's like five to seven inch incision, so probably about that long on my stomach. It seemed like it was like this long. I don't know. It was like right around there. Um, it definitely shrunk over time since it's been you know healed. But they go through like right, it was probably about two or three inches below my belly button. And they did uh straight across uh incision. Now I think on males, sometimes they'll do an up like a horizontal one or vertical. Um, and then mine was horizontal. So it just depends on the surgeon and your anatomy and how they're gonna do the procedure. Everyone's a little bit different. Um, mine just did it, you know, straight across. And then um, so for the surgery, specifically overseas, I'm not sure exactly here, but I know overseas actually arrived in the hospital the night before and then stayed overnight in the hospital. And then they wheeled me off for surgery around five o'clock in the morning. And um, I don't remember a ton then. I do remember, you know, nobody really spoke English, so it was all German, and I'm laying there like, all right, like hopefully this hopefully this is good. You know, like kind of freaking out a little bit, but they gave me, you know, something to calm me down and then you know the nausea medicine, the pain medicine, everything. They wheeled me in the the operating room. And then I think my surgery started right at 8 a.m. And I was expected to be done around 11:30. I ended up not getting out of surgery until about three o'clock or three thirty. Wow. Much longer than was expected. And they ended up my doctor, and this is one reason why I'm so thankful for him, is he spent so much extra time in there meticulously removing all of my scar tissue. He said that I had so much scar tissue that had built up around like all my tendons, ligaments, and nerves that he was like, if I leave that in there, you're still gonna have a lot of these symptoms. So he ended up removing like every little piece of everything. Wow. And um, I will I will say this and not to scare anyone, but when I woke up from surgery, I was basically screaming. I was in so much pain.

SPEAKER_03 36:46

And I can't imagine going through the front like that.

Walking Protocols And Home Recovery Tools

SPEAKER_01 36:49

And it wasn't even that, it was like just like my whole body was in this extreme pain and I couldn't feel my legs. Oh god, it was a little scary at first. Um but I can get into exactly why why that happened. But anyways, but yeah, so I um couldn't feel my legs, but I don't really remember it a lot now. Luckily, I was told more of it after the fact, but I just remember being in so much pain for probably I don't know 20 minutes or so, and then they gave me some more pain medicine, which helped to kind of calm it down. And by by that night and the next day, like I didn't have nearly as much pain. Like it was minimum, it was pretty minimal pain. They had it pretty well controlled. Um, and the interesting thing is over there, other than the surgery, I had only I was only given IV Tylenol. Oh, geez. So I had Tylenol and an IV, um, but it actually it actually helped me a lot. So okay. Where's the morphine? I know, yeah. So they gave me that during surgery, and then after surgery, Tylenol is what they what they did. What was the explanation for why it hurt so much? Long story short, I guess on um, which I can say in in the in between two, but that was a Thursday. On Monday, I ended up having a follow-up MRI or C CT scan, which uh they always do as procedure just to make sure everything looks good. And the doctor saw some additional bone that was still on the back side that had been pressing against my um nerve as well. And so that was what was still causing me the extreme pain. Oh, but because he had gone through the front, he couldn't see it. He could see like the tendons, you know, or the other scar tissue and got all that out of there. But I guess the bone was kind of hidden um to where he couldn't see it. And so that led me into a second surgery.

SPEAKER_03 38:35

Holy cow! Was this through the back then?

SPEAKER_01 38:38

Yes. So this one I had to go through the back four days after having the other surgery.

SPEAKER_02 38:43

Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_01 38:44

I was like, no, and I just got like literally right before this, I had just gotten to take my first shower. So I was like, at least I got to take a shower. Um, but yeah, so they went through the back, and so then I had the incision in the front. I also had drains, so I had the drains in the front, then they had to do the back, so I had to have surgery through the back, also had a drain spine, which that was the worst one of all of them. Um, but that surgery was maybe 30 minutes. It was really quick, easy in and out. And I really as soon as he did that, my feeling in my legs was back, and like I didn't have like any other of that horrible pain that I was having. So I immediately got rid of that. Um, and that that surgery really wasn't that bad. The only part that hurt was just getting in and out of bed because when I had to turn on my side to get up, the the um drain would pull.

SPEAKER_03 39:34

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 39:35

Um, you know, trying to get in and in and out of the bathroom, like off the toilet and whatnot, that was excruciatingly painful too. But outside of that, uh that that surgery wasn't really that bad.

SPEAKER_03 39:45

So, how long did you have to stay in Germany after the surgery?

SPEAKER_01 39:48

So I was in Germany a total of a little over three weeks. So we flew in the uh Tuesday before the surgery. I had surgery on Thursday, and then there you stay in the hospital. I stayed for 10 days in the Hospital with round-the-clock care. And then I got out of the hospital and stayed, I think it was an additional five days or so. Um, and then flew home from Germany.

SPEAKER_03 40:12

How was that flight after all the surgeries?

SPEAKER_01 40:15

That was awful. I'm not gonna say not screw code that one, and especially like traveling with my mom, who also has her own, you know, issues as well was definitely it's definitely hard. And we had, you know, I would definitely not recommend this, is I was trying to be, you know, budget friendly because of all the money I'm already spending. But I'm like, oh, you know, two layovers, not bad at all. Yeah, not thinking that was the worst idea. So we had to fly from Dusseldorf, Germany to Copenhagen, Copenhagen to DC, and then DC down to North Carolina.

SPEAKER_02 40:47

Yeah.

Distraction Pain Explained

SPEAKER_01 40:47

By the time we got to DC, I was like, I'm not gonna make it. Just leave me here, just leave me on the plane. Like, I don't even want to even try going. It was awful. I was in so much pain. And then I remember like the DC airport. I don't know if you've ever been there, it's huge. Like we were at Dulles, and we had to go from like this side of the airport all the way to the other side. Then we had to go through customs, back back through security, like back in the it was it was absolutely awful. And luckily, I had organized the wheelchair service. Uh at least I had that, but even just you know, the only thing that was really comfortable was laying down at that point. So sitting in this wheelchair forever was excruciating. Walking, I could barely walk, you know, 10 steps in five minutes. Like I was so slow. So it was it was definitely not fun. So don't recommend that if you ever go overseas on one flight. Um, but I did make it back and I was so scared that the next day I was like, I'm gonna be so miserable. I woke up, I was fine. Oh, wow. So I was amazed.

SPEAKER_03 41:48

So what's the with the microdisectomy? You mentioned that there's the no bending, lifting, and twisting. What are the rules post artificial disc replacement?

SPEAKER_01 41:57

So it's pretty much pretty much the same for at first. So they you are able to sit. Um, you're able, they really encourage walking. So as much walking as you possibly can. Like, you know, laying down, sitting is okay, but they want you to alternate. And I did have to get up and walk at least 10 minutes out of every hour while I'm awake. So that was the goal is you have to do that because you've got to keep moving. And also you had a higher risk of blood clots and everything from this surgery.

SPEAKER_03 42:25

Yes, walking is so important for your recovery. It gets your muscles moving, but it also gets the blood flowing and helps with healing after a surgical procedure. So if you are recovering from your surgery and maybe the snow has started or it's just too cold to be outside, head over to the Bed Back and Beyond YouTube channel and you can find five-minute, 10-minute, 20, and 30-minute indoor walking videos that are specifically tailored for your no bending, lifting, or twisting requirements. Get to walking.

Physical Therapy And Regaining Life

SPEAKER_01 42:59

But outside of that, no lifting. So I wasn't able to lift anything for trying to remember exactly. I think it was at least like three months, like, other than like, you know, whatever I could lift easily that was like a couple pounds, you know, that wasn't straining anything. Like that was okay. But like I can't go pick up my dog, even though she's like 20 pounds. Yeah, I can't pick up the dog, can't pick up grocery bags, you don't want to bend over, um, things like that. But it does really depend on which disc you get, because each disc has different stipulations for recovery. There are some discs where they're like you can bend over right away, and then there's other discs where you can't. Um, but your body will also tell you those restrictions because mine was so stiff. Like I felt like I was like a tree branch that was like, if you went like this, it's gonna be like you know, crappy mouth. Because everything was like had been stretched that it's just so stiff. Like I couldn't believe how tight everything was because of the stretching that I was just like, oh my goodness, like I can't even like bend over if I want to. Um, but I did a lot of even squatting down was hard because of all the like your uh hamstrings and your gluteal muscles like all get stretched. So it's like even trying to squat is almost impossible. Um, but outside of that, I do remember the biggest thing was definitely the uh walking. And then he also gave me, he did give me a list of exercises to do, um, which was another thing like I had to do. Like there was one where you like lean against the wall and you kind of like move like your arms like this, or certain things, or you kind of push off the wall, like just like that to kind of help. Um, they're like really easy basic exercises.

SPEAKER_03 44:45

And did he recommend that you see a physical therapist after a while or just do the these exercises?

SPEAKER_01 44:50

Yep. So I did see a physical therapist at the three-month mark. Okay. Not a whole lot before that. It was mostly at that time, it was mostly just being really careful because the disc that I got does not have, so they don't um cut into the spine to like slide it in there. They like open your spine, like kind of put it in there, your spine closes. So it has to manually fuse to the spine over time. Oh, it's roughly about three months. So that's why, like during that three-month period, it was really like just don't do anything, you know, just be very very careful. Don't walk. I didn't even drive at all during that time frame because I was scared that, like, if I have to slam on the brake, is that gonna jar something? Right. So I was like, I'm just not gonna drive, I'll be a passenger princess for three months and like make someone drive me everywhere. So that was basically um, you know, what happened for that. And then I do remember also one other thing that had to be really careful with was how I got out of bed. So I was only allowed to sleep on my back at that point. They said I could sleep on my side, but it was just not comfortable. So I slept on my back, and then when I'd get out of bed, I had to like pull myself over, you know, to the side and then push up like this. Log roll. Yes, exactly. So you can't um you know twist anything or like flip yourself over to get out of bed, yeah, nothing like that. So that was you know kind of annoying, but I did that for a long time.

SPEAKER_03 46:16

But you weren't required to wear a brace to keep you keep you completely still.

Results, Activities, And Long-Term Outlook

SPEAKER_01 46:20

No, so I did have a brace, um, which was a flexible, like a removable brace. It was pretty like not really flexible, it was more stiff, but it was, you know, I could take it on and off. And I only really had to wear that. Um, I mostly wore that when I was going out places. So like if I was going to the store or anything like that, I didn't want people to bump into me. So I'd make sure to wear the wear the back brace. I also used for about three or four months a rollator walker. Um because when I was walking, like I would get like the which I can get into this part two because there's a lot around this, but like the recovery in the beginning was so hard on my body that like I would walk like 20 steps and I would just be like, I've got to sit down. Like I would just be so exhausted. And so I'd have the rollator that had a little seat on it, and I'd have to sit there and like be like, okay, I'm good now. I can get up and walk some more. And that went on for like three or four months. And so I'd have to take this to Target, you know, wherever I would go and um make sure to use that. But yeah, I would wear the back brace, and I especially wore it when I was um at home, like if I was trying to wash some dishes or something where I'm standing for a while, and my back would get really tired. Um, I'd make sure to wear that back brace as well.

SPEAKER_03 47:31

Yeah, even the fatigue, even with uh microdisectomy, you know, everyone such a little excision incision, but surgery is so traumatic on the body, like you said, there's all kinds of inflammation, and your body's getting used to a fake, you know, yeah, it was crazy.

SPEAKER_01 47:48

Like I remember my mom could not believe this, but when I was in the hospital, like the first 10 days, my hands were sweating so bad. I would go like this and they're just dripping. What it was just my hands, like I could, I was like, what is going on? Like, I could it was so crazy. It was like my body just got thrown into this weird, like systemic, like I don't even know, but and they were peeling, they started peeling so bad because of how bad they were like sweating. It was crazy. I was like, is this ever gonna go away? What is this? And then my skin started breaking out, like I broke out so badly, like I've never broken out in my life. And I'm like, where is all like what is happening to my skin? Yeah, just like weird things like that that like my body was just like flushing, yeah, all toxic or something out.

SPEAKER_03 48:34

I don't know what it was doing, but I had the microdisectomy, and like a week, maybe a couple days later, the skin on my legs started peeling. Yeah, like I had a sun, a sunburn.

SPEAKER_01 48:46

Yeah, it's it's found me something about how the body reacts. I don't know, it's just it's crazy what our bodies can do, but yeah, geez.

SPEAKER_03 48:54

So three months you had to be careful so that the artificial disc would fuse to your bones. How was moving back into normal life? Was it was it stressful to start moving with the physical therapist or were you able to just dive right in?

Advice For ADR Candidates And Closing CTA

SPEAKER_01 49:09

Yeah, I would say normal life probably took me a while. Um, because I was also dealing in that first, so about four months or four months, four weeks after surgery, I started to get what they call distraction pain, which if you've heard of anyone that's had disc replacement, almost all of them will talk about distraction pain. And you're like, what is that? It's horrible, like the most excruciating pain ever. And it's from like the knees down and both legs, or it can be one leg or the you know, alternate, but it for me it was both legs, and it was every day at like five o'clock, it would start five o'clock p.m. And it would just be this like zapping, like constantly like this. And then it felt like my foot was on fire. It was absolutely awful. And I remember thinking, is this ever is this ever gonna end? Like this, you know, like this is awful. And I have to use um these like leg massagers on my legs. I used a tens unit, I would use icy hot lidocaine patches, um, all of that would kind of help it. And the only other thing that would make it go away is walking, so I'd have to get up and keep walking around. But the second I try to like sit down and watch TV or something, it's like it's back, and it was awful. Um, and that lasted for me, like literally until like the three-month almost to the day post-surger when it started to go away. And I was like, oh my god, it's like thank you, Lord, because it was awful, it was absolutely horrible, and it's like all down like your calf, like the front of the shin and it everywhere. Um, and so you'll hear a lot of people talk about that. Some people have it for a week or two, some people have it for months. So it really just depends. For me, it was almost exactly to the three-month mark, and then it started to go away, which was also like right before I started PT. So it wasn't didn't really coincide with that. Um, but once I started PT, that was definitely I would say like not fun because it's just like, you know, my whole body was so stiff that just trying to do anything, I'm like, I have to do these little arm movements. Like, this seems so stupid. But I'm like, but at the same time, I'm like, it's like it, you know, you realize like how everything, like not just the back, my legs were so tight, my arms even, because I was just so used to protecting the spine that like I'm not moving anything, you know? Um so I did PT, I think for about three months or so. Um, started off going like every three or four days, and then it was like every two days, or no, no, I mean backwards. I went like every two days, then it was like every three or four days, then it was like once a week for a while, and then it was like once every two weeks. And then um, by that point, I would say by so I had surgeon may by October, I felt pretty much like a new person. It was like, okay, I can't believe I had disc replacement like six months ago because now I'm like I'm able to do pretty much everything. I went on my first like long car ride from you know Charlotte to Charleston, which was like three and a half hours with no stops. And I was like in this horrible little van because we wanted to go pick up something from market that we bought on Facebook Marketplace. But I'm like, how like I never would have been able to do that like a year, two years, three years prior, even like right after my dissectomy. I had to carry a cushion everywhere, you know, and I was just like, oh my goodness, like I didn't have to think about it. I was like, it's like, oh my gosh. Yeah. So that's when I started to realize, like, okay, I'm starting to actually have my life back.

SPEAKER_03 52:35

Okay. Real quick about the distraction pain. Was that something your doctor warned you about, or did you only learn about it on the forums?

SPEAKER_01 52:44

So I learned about it on the forums and then I asked my doctor about it, and he told me that it can happen. But he's like, it's very, it's weird. He's like, some people get it, some people don't. Some people it lasts for a long time, some people it doesn't. Um, and he said, you know, we don't want to hype or get too stuck on that because he's like, you know, you don't want you to freak out or think it's gonna be discouraging. Because I will say, like, it was not fun. However, I would 1000% do it again to how I feel right now. Like it was worth it. The entire torment of that like three to six month process from you know the surgery was definitely worth it for for the end, you know, how you have it. They don't give enough warning around exactly what to expect.

SPEAKER_03 53:26

Did they have an ex explanation for the distraction pain?

SPEAKER_01 53:29

Just the so when you do disc replacement versus a fusion, right? So a fusion, everything's like like shrinking, right? You push it together and you and then whatever. But with a disc replacement, to get the discs in there, they have to stretch the spine, which then stretches everything. So you have to think about it, your tendons, your ligaments, and your nerves are all getting stretched, which they do not like. You know, then they're sprung back, and then they're like, Okay, what you know, wait, I'm in this new position. Like, what's going on? For me, initially, I like grew like an inch and a half after surgery, which is like crazy. I think I've like compressed back down since then. I remember like after surgery, my mom was like, You were how'd you get so tall? Like I stood up and she was like, What in the world? And my pants that I put on were like this much shorter, it was crazy. And so, um, you know, when you think of all that, you're like, Okay, it makes sense because everything is just like trying to figure out its new place. Why it takes like for me, why it took three three or four weeks after surgery, that I have no idea. I don't know why it took a while to kick in. Um, but yeah.

SPEAKER_03 54:41

Remind me the year, was it 23 that you had the artificial disc? Correct. Okay, and so now we're going into 20. We are in 26. I know. How are you feeling now?

SPEAKER_01 54:51

I mean, I knock on wood, feel great. Like I don't have any lower back pain, I don't get sciatica. Um, though every once in a while I'll get like a little bit of pain in like my SI joints or something, they'll just get uncomfortable. Most of the time, I think it's because my mattress is probably too hard. Um, but outside of that, like I, you know, I it's weird because I'm like, okay, I feel like normal now. Like I, you know, but I'm still like always nervous about you know doing doing too much to hurt myself. But for the most part, like I can go out and do just about anything that I wanted to do.

SPEAKER_03 55:25

Okay. Did your doctor say like never golf again? Or does he think yeah?

SPEAKER_01 55:31

He was like, You're you're free to do anything. He said I can ride roller coasters again, you can golf again, you can play basketball, you can go to the gym, you know, anything that you want to do. Um now there's still stuff that I'm like, I'm not gonna do some of that because it's probably a little risky, you know. Even golf, like I definitely want to get back into that, but at the same time, I'm like, I feel good. Is it worth it? You know, just in case, because I'm like, you know, I've got other discs in my back. Um, but but at the same time, I'm like, I know now, like I could probably do it, probably be fine. It's probably more of like a psychological thing I have to get over. Um, but I do go back to the gym now, you know, been lifting weights, like working out and those sorts of things. And you know, no weight restriction. No. I mean, I've been like, I mean, I have like weight restrictions just because I've got other like bad knees and stuff too. But but outside of that, like, no.

SPEAKER_03 56:19

My younger brother has started to learn how to golf. So he asked me to go with him every every once in a while. So I'll do some like top golf or something like that. Yeah, but in the back of my mind, I'm like, I had a microdisectomy, I had a harny at a disc. Should I be doing this? Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 56:35

And that's and that's the hard thing. It's like you never know. Like, I mean, I have like my siblings have all had back surgeries. Um, most of them have like laminectomies or dissectomies as well, and they're fine, like never had any issues for like years. Yeah, and then I'm like, there's me, and then I'm like, all right, I've got everything seems to be bad for me. So it's like, you know, I can just sit here and not do anything, and I'm gonna end up with pain. Um, but yeah, I mean it's great to know that now, like now being on this side of it, like I three years ago, never thought I'd be sitting here, like feeling like this. Like I was like, Oh, I'll probably feel like 70% better, maybe 50%. But I mean, to feel like basically like I'd say like 95% closer to 100% better, it's just it's crazy. Yeah, you know, I never thought that would happen.

SPEAKER_03 57:22

And so for you, medical debt to pay for this was well worth it.

SPEAKER_01 57:27

Yes, yes, yeah, it was not it was not cheap. Um, now, granted, like I said, there's plenty of different levels price-wise that you can go to, and the doctor that was less expensive was definitely great as well. Um, I just felt like I felt more comfortable with the aftercare from the other doctor of what he recommended and how long I'd be in the hospital and things like that, especially being in a foreign country versus like being in the hospital for two days and then like kind of out on your own. I was like, okay, yeah, I'll stay a little bit longer. Um, but yeah, I mean, to your point, it's like it sucks, you know, having to have that medical debt and then, you know, paying it off probably for the rest of my life. But at the same time, I'm like, I would do it over in a heartbeat because I'm like, if your health is so important, and it's like if you, you know, especially like at my age, I'm like, if I lived another, what was I 36 till I'm you know, 75, 80, even 90, like I don't want to live the rest of my life being so miserable, you know, and missing out on everything that you want to do versus if there's something I can do about it, yeah, it's gonna cost me money, but I'll find a way to pay for it. And then if I have to make payments on it or whatever, like it's worth it, then you know, to just be miserable or to just get a fusion because it's the easier option, right?

SPEAKER_03 58:41

I am so glad that you just did all this research and and really advocated for yourself to get the correct surgery for you.

SPEAKER_01 58:48

Oh yeah. And a lot of people were like, You're doing what?

unknown 58:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 58:52

And so yeah, and I mean, the one other blessing I would say is that you know, I had a phenomenal, which I still have, primary doctor, and he was on board, you know, from the get-go, and he's like, you know, I think that's a great idea. He's like, I yeah, I fully support you, whatever you need after help, you know, any you know, if you need help to because he had to do all my referrals for PT and everything since my other doctor was in Europe. Um, so that's another thing I would say is just you know make sure if you have a really good primary doctor that they do connect with your doctor um overseas if you go overseas, because that's what mine did. They they talked and everything. So he had all the recommendations and whatnot.

SPEAKER_03 59:25

So, what do you think you would say to someone who is considering an artificial disc replacement?

SPEAKER_01 59:30

I would say um, you know, for me it was phenomenal. I'm so glad that I did it. And I would say definitely do all of your research. Um, look into the different types of discs, not just, you know, what disc, look into their approach. You know, how do they plan to do the surgery? Are they doing it from the front, which is pretty much I think what all disk replacements have to do? Um, you know, are there any repercussions that you would have to deal with afterwards? Make sure that you do check your metal, metal testing, even if you think you have no issue, it's definitely. worth you know testing it when you know that you can do that beforehand. And also if you have any you know sus suspected other discs, definitely get like a discogram. You know, find out um if there's any other discs that might be affecting you and just do all this different research. Join the forums, you know, I would suggest as well. And then also my personal opinion, find the best doctor that you can. Don't just go to someone that like kind of knows about disk replacement. Like you want to go to someone that really knows what they're doing, that they do these a lot and they have a lot of lot of um experience with it, I think is key.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:35

Para I really appreciate you taking the time to come on my podcast and tell your story. I think it's going to be so beneficial for people who are considering artificial disc or want something other than a fusion. I really appreciate it. Oh yeah and thank you so much for having me on here. I really appreciate it as well. If you are someone who is recovering from a back surgery or herniated disc and you would like to share your journey, head over to bedbackbeyond and click share your story. I would love to include your voice on the show. Tara, good luck in the snow and the ice thank you